best thing about this trade is we dump NAZR and pick up two expiring deals. neither of these players should get minutes over the guys already riding pine.

This move should allow Amir to get more mins.

and they won’t. unless we trade the coach we are riding the starters until the bolts fall off.

Is anyone else afraid that this newfound cap space will go
towards another mid-season C-Webb acquisition?

Nice trade. Nazr wasn’t giving us anything. Gain a no-risk trial run with Brezec and Herrman. Herrman might be able to provide a shot of energy off the bench. There has been some rumblings that he might have potential to be a Nocioni type gritty contributor but that may just be lazy association with his fellow Argentines.

This is really a steal. Joe has given us much flexibility now. We got rid of an ugly contract, picked up at least Hermann who has potential, got rid of the meaningless position dupree occupied on the bench, and now have space on the roster in a Webber emergency situation.

But I’m honestly hoping those minutes go to Amir, for at least the next 20 games.

Hallelujah!

Noooooo, not my favorite Piston?! >.<

haha, just kidding. Good riddens, Nazr. Sorry it didnt work out for you but someone being payed that much money should not be wasting space, riding at the end of the bench.

Also, i have only heard good things about Walter Hermann and how he is very capable player when he has been given playing time. I wonder if he will actually share sometime with Afflalo and Hayes…

It is obvious i will be a happy Piston fan this Christmas, now if only we can get a suitable replacement for Flip Murray for New Years…-ponders the situation- :D

Pretty excited about Hermann. He should be able to give us more than Nazr/Dupe. I don’t see P.B. getting much run over Amir. But who knows….I have seen coaches get infatuated with guys before.

the future remains to be seen. (thanks, john madden.)

interesting thing about guys like this, when they get traded to legit contenders… it can bring out the beast. herm has shown flashes of serious talent recently. we’ll see. would love to be able to attend a few practices to see how they hustle for minutes (or not).

Anyone else notice that the little article bit refers to Charlotte as the “Hornets”? Man how many years to the bobcats have to suck to get there name known by beat writers?

Great trade by JD in my opinion. I don’t mean to sound stupid by saying this but seriously other GM’s in the league really need to look up to Joe and how he works. I seriously wouldn’t want any other man being the GM for our team. God. Damn. Legend.

Proposition Joe does it again.

According to Hoopshype.com:

Primoz Brezec (7’1", 252lbs) Has a resemblance to Rasho Nesterovic. Huge wingspan. Great shooting skills. Poor defender.

Walter Hermann (6’9", 223lbs) Great hands. Very strong. Can play both forward spots and some shooting guard. Good shooter. Quite a scorer.

can’t believe joe found somebody to take nazr’s ridiculous contract. thank god michael jordan is back in an nba front office.

How does Joe get away with this stuff? I mean, don’t other GMs see him coming and go, “Wait a minute! No you don’t, Joe Dumars! Not THIS time…!” and then hang up the phone? Unless I’m missing something, this seems like a better deal for us than Charlotte.

From Charley Rosen’s preseason analysis of Charlotte:

“Of the starters, only Primoz Brezec is below par. True, he can hit mid-range jumpers and snare his fair share of rebounds. But he’s simply too slow and unathletic to compete on a nightly basis with his peers.

Charlotte’s bench also has promise.

Adam Morrison is out for the season with a torn ACL, but that’s not a big loss given his erratic shooting and soft game. Matt Carroll is surprisingly tough, and unsurprisingly smart — plus he’s a totally reliable shooter. If Jeff McGinnis can slow down and think before he reacts, he could become a potent backup behind Felton.

Elsewhere on the bench, Ryan Hollins is a bouncy big man, but a rookie. Othella Harrington must work his tail off to maintain his status as a quintessential journeyman player.

The key to the season just might be Walter Herrmann. If he can sustain last year’s late-season brilliance, then the Bobcats will be incredibly deep."

As a self-proclaimed staunch Nazr apologist, even I have nothing but good things to say about this trade. Brezec is basically Nazr with better offense if he plays up to the solid showings of his years as a starter in Charlotte, and Hermann is kinda one of those “upside” guys. I mean, just really adds ridiculous depth to the forward position with Hermann. I don’t see how this helps Amir’s chances at getting more time, but I’m anxious to find out.

Some of my friends have heard rumblings that this is just a predecessor to a much bigger move (mentioning names like Pau, Eddy Curry). That would be exciting but it’s entirely premature speculation at this point.

One thing of note, we now have 16 guys if we don’t make another trade that this time is more players for less in return. If that remains the case, does Lindsey make an early exit to the office, does Dupe take the fall or none of the above?

LawyerBoy,
Blakely’s article referenced in the post says super dupe’s on waivers now. I never understood why he was kept around in the first place. But he will be back in the next year or two – I’d bet a Coke!

Just kidding, saw Brad Bice’s post in the Hawks game thread and got the subsequent confirmation from Pistons.com, peace out Super Dupe.

No one pointed out that he referred to them as the Hornets and not the Bobcats? I’m disappointed in everyone!

Garrett,
LOL, seriously. I bet at least one person within the wizards organization has dropped to their knees, raised their fists to the heavens and screamed “DUMAAAAAAAARS!”

I checked the Olympic boxscore and Walter Herrmann had 11pts, 4rebs, 1 steal, in 14 minutes against Team USA in Athens ‘04. I remember watching and thinking the USA depth would wear down Argentina and then Herrmann came in and kicked our ass. The guy isn’t shy on a big stage and outplayed some guys named Wade, Iverson, and Duncan in a must win game. I would have been happy with Herrmann for Nazr straight up with no salary considerations — the fact that Joe Dumars got another player and dumped major long term salary is amazing.

I just want Amir Johnson to play and give it to him in the post every once in a while. Because I swear this was the year when players minutes will be cut.

Kyl: Haha! So true! I can totally picture it. The Orlando GM probably still wakes up in a cold sweat after thinking, “Wow! They want to give us GRANT HILL for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins?! DEAL!”

Garrett/Kyle,

I love picturing Joe Dumars during the Rasheed trade. “So let me get this straight… I get Sheed and this Mike James guy. And I only have to give up Rebraca, Chucky Atkins and Lindsay Hunter, who I can re-sign?”

So looking ahead, next year’s expiring contracts: Flip, Lindsay, Jarvis, Brezec and Hermann.

We have three draft picks (one of which is virtually guaranteed to be the first pick in Round 2). That leaves two spots for free agents (or maybe Alex Acker).

We’ll need a backup SF and a backup legit C.

Darshan: I contend that Brezec IS a very capable backup C. Whether he shows that he is to this squad remains to be seen. Apparently this Arvis Hayes guy we got in the offseason is a capable backup (SF) too. Who knew that’d be the case Wizards brass (head nod to Kyl)? Perhaps Hermann is a capable backup SF too. If you ask me, we don’t really need anything except to re-sign Jarvis and maybe Brezec or witness development in Samb’s game from a D-League stint, and we’re set. Hermann for 60 games (or more I suppose) is just a nice little bonus. Interesting how this deal clears cap space for us to sign a player (cough bring the hometown by Webber along for the ride cough) if we were to waive another member of the squad or create a roster opening through a 2 for 1 or 1 for picks.

Joe proves again with this move today why the Pistons franchise is a perennial standout in the league and reminds us that we have a solid foundation (from ownership to management to the roster) setting us up for success for years to come.

Brezec suffered from, and I quote, “exhaustion” last year. Mariah Carey does that.

As for Hermann, he had an intriguing rookie season, but has been doing everything in his power this year to prove it was a fluke. I shudder to think of the fun Sheed is going to have with this dude.

Good position for Nazr. He could really prosper in Charlotte, and they need a center.

I agree totally, great trade on JoeD’s part. Big man to take Nazrs spot and an upside guy in Hermann. Most importantly both have expiring deals this year.

Im gonna hope Prezec gets parked behind Amir but what about Hermann? Play him or Jarvis at SG? I would hate to see him steal minutes from Amir at the PF spot,not that Amir has been getting minutes anyways. I like the depth now but not sure where minutes will go. I also wonder, like LB above, if this isnt the precursor of a bigger move.

I hate to say it but I really dont wanna see CWebb back unless hes number 4 off the bench or at least doesnt mess with Maxiells minutes. I just dont think CWebb is capable of putting us over the top at this point in his career unlike Maxiell who seems to really be coming into his own.

Welcome, Fabio.

Nazr was terrible, such a waste of money. Joe D said he would not bring Webber back due to the fact that we HAD three veteran big men. Now we have two. Hopefully Joe D will bring Webber back.

Great trade. I definitely like our side of it. I do believe, for better or worse, CWebb returns sometime between Jan and March.

Lawyerboy, I meant that they’ll need to sign a backup SF and C for next year with all of these expiring contracts (granted, we can try to resign Jarvis and Brezec). But we’ll have three draft picks and a mid-level exemption to do that with.

Lawyerboy, and you’re right about Samb. I was a Nazr apologist too. He was a great insurance big man. But Samb looks like he can play so we may not need a Nazr or a Brezec after this year.

Did anyone notice that ESPN had a big contingent in Charlotte yesterday, not only for the TV game but for interviews with the rarely seen Robert Johnson and Michael Jordan?

Mark it down, this deal happened in part because the Bobcats’ two figureheads wanted to be shown pushing buttons and pulling levers. The deal was leaked while a big cadre of reporters were awaiting interviews, seriously pissing off Joe D because he hadn’t told Nazr and Ron Dupree.

Joe D is my hero. Beware a patient man who doesn’t need to appear the smartest guy in the room, because he will eventually fleece you. Meanwhile here’s a word of respectful farewell to Nazr and Dupree, really good professionals who deserve the best.

This was a fantastic move as it gets rid of Nazr and his huge salary. Remember that next year there are a slew of free agents including Elton Brand who is on record saying he will take a pay cut to play for a winner

Dumars is always a few steps ahead of everyone else

Sorry to see Dupree go as he was really a class act who practiced hard and never complained about not playing

Nazr also showed a lot by not complaining and I really think this helped him in the long run

Don’t be surprised if Webber is added mid-sesaon to mentor Amir/Brezec and possibly as a coach for the future as well as Amir starting to get time at the 5. When Stuckey is finally ok’d to play I see Lindsey moving to the front office to open up a spot for Webber (any thoughts?) Detroit should do everything possible to keep Jarvis Hayes (if he is willing to remain a backup) he provides so much depth and energy. Lastly, With Chauncy and Rip Starting, Stuckey and Flip off the bench, does Afflalo move to back up Prince and Hayes? Do we have enough depth to keep Afflalo as 2 guard and move Flip Murray? Seems to me Murray is an above average 2 guard, and Afflalo is better suited as SF.

DJ,
   I think it’ll mostly do with matchups. I imagine they’ll continue to have Afflalo out there with at least 3 starters for his defense, then they’ll use Flip with more bench players for his offense. Quite frankly the way Afflalo has been busting his ass i’d rather see him get more minutes than Flip.

   As for C-Webb, last I knew he was holding out trying to get someone to give him a 2 year deal. Is he really ready to not only come off the bench, but to be the 4th or 5th guy off? I wouldn’t mind him in this capacity, but I can’t really imagine him being satisfied watching Amir Johnson get more minutes than he does.

Again though, thank you Nazr and Super Dupe. You played hard when called on and we knew we could rely on you. Thank you for being pistons.

Nazr>Brezec, so thats definatley not an upgrade at C.

Hermann is interesting because he is just in his 2nd year and showed great potential last season. I dont know why his minutes and production has decreased so much this year. The plus side of Hermann is that he brings much needed energy and hustle to the 3 spot and can knock down the open three.

Im a huge Hayes fan- but I like the option of having Hermann come into the three spot for energy and rebounding when Hayes shot isnt falling rendering him useless. If the past few games has showed us anything its that Detroits offense collapses when the J’s arent falling. Jmax’s energy and hustle definately helps Detroit stay in games when the shots arent falling and if Hermann can bring that same type of energy Detroit can stay in pretty good shape.

My only concern is for Amir Johnson- when will this kid see playing time at the forward position?

they don’t need webber at all. they need one more big who is not old and has two good knees in order to contend this year.

they have like 16 guys now. we will probly see at least one more trade.

I think flip murray is already gone – just a matter of time and I think one of the main reasons is his selfishness – selfishness is not part of Detroit Pistons Basketball or its DNA

Just for clarification, when I said bring Webber along for the ride, I meant it in the way that Juwan Howard still gets brought along for the ride (ie: a lot of DNP-CDs). I believe this squad can get a ring and nothing would make me happier than seeing Webber get one with us in an EXTREMELY limited role. I know a lot of Michigan fans are bitter towards him for the tailspin he sent their program into and I understand that completely, but for me personally, at that point I’d enrolled at Indiana University and moved on from U of M hoops. I still have only fond memories of the guy as I grew up loving U of M sports. I have the UTMOST respect for a person who has traveled the world and chooses to go back to Detroit to live and wants to bleed Piston blue. If he’ll take spot number 10, 11 or 12, I say give it to him, if we can.

Just a thought on Amir, it seems like they’re bringing him along on a similar trajectory to the way they brought along Maxiell last year and that’s working out pretty well for Maxiell and the Stones this year. Just a friendly reminder that although Maxiell and Amir were drafted in the same season, Maxiell is 4 years older than him. I think there’s any reason when you’re as successful as we are this season and showing as much promise for a sustained playoff run, to really worry about developing Amir when you have him locked for two more seasons. Next season (after we pick up our 4th Larry O’Brien trophy), Sheed & Dice will be a year older and probably as a result of our future title, a bit less hungry.

*don’t think there’s any reason

As a Bulls fan, I am jealous of this deal. Herrmann is a steal, buried in Charlotte for no discernible reason. Even if he doesnt crack the rotation he and Brezec are valuable chips in a future deal.

And how can you not root for the guy:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595081559,00.html

Guys I don’t know if these guys will play, but I think the big thing about this trade is the money. Here are a few points I would like to share.

1. Nazr turns the ball over to much. He seems to be good in the locker room but he was some timey when he played.

2. I think Sheeds and Mad Maxes play had a lot to do with Joe making this move. Plus when we have played against the so called big teams ( Heat, Rockets, and Magic) our front held their own.

3. I hope this means Amir will get Nazr mins.

4. ESPN is saying Joe D wants to bring Webber back. I hope this is not so. Look I was a fab five fan, but I hate to say he is done. Play Amir please.

Joe D. is speaking at CMU’s commencement in a few days (maybe today?). When I graduated from CMU we had some dude who tried to draw a parallel between dendritic nanotechnology and not being able to see the forest for the trees. I would sit through the torturous ceremony again just to hear Dumars speak for longer than a soundbyte, but, alas, I am 2000 miles away.

LawyerBoy Nice observation re Maxiell and Amir – just want to add that Maxiell was a 4 year starter at a school with a rep for teaching players how to play the game. Amir is young and unlike DMC he has the right attitude about paying his dues and waiting his turn

As for Webber – in a very very limited role as someone who can come in and stop those awful scoring droughts we seem to fall into.

Cincy – A rep for teaching them the game but nothing else…. AT ALL. Haha.

PDXpiston fan—do you know Qdog? I’d love to have a group of piston fans here in PDX get together to watch games—unless this already exists? clue me in if so
mattanuska[AT]gmail.com

Thank god Nazr is gone. he stinks. We all want amir to play more, I just dont see it happening though. I would have taken a bag of cheetos for Nazr. So glad to get rid of that salary! Herrman can play, but he isnt good on D. If we can resign hayes we should. Now we need to start counting down the days till we get rid of murray. I can’t wait until stuckey is back. I like samb’s potential. I also don’t like Cweb coming back. play amir not a guy who can’t jump. the only was Cweb comes back is if we trade Murray for a pick and then I hope he doesnt play more than 10 mins a game. Lindsey isnt moving into the front office until after this year. Joe D is amazing. There will be no big move. It would take a lot to get a guy like Gasol and you dont risk it when your team is so good. We need to get amir and stuckey all kinds of playing time asap.

And now, i want chris webber’s back!

Guys, I love you, I really do, but this is borderline EMBARASSING… no offence intended but why the heck are ya’ll getting excited about a basketball trade where we took back BOTH white foriegn guys?

This was a dump, bye Nazr.

PG4L, it’s not about the trade. It’s about the cap implications of the trade. It’s not about the 10th man on the roster, it was about shedding $20M in salary from the 10th spot on the roster.

I live out west and don’t get to watch every game, but Flip Murray has been awful every time I’ve seen him this year. I’m betting the only reason he’s getting minutes is that he’s being showcased in a trade.

PG4L, it’s not about the trade. It’s about the cap implications of the trade. It’s not about the 10th man on the roster, it was about shedding $20M in salary from the 10th spot on the roster.

I live out west and don’t get to watch every game, but Flip Murray has been awful every time I’ve seen him this year. I’m betting the only reason he’s getting minutes is that he’s being showcased for a trade.

V, sure and I suppose there were just as many “wow they’re both expiring contracts!” posts as “This Fabio kid has alot of upside and Brezimnotspelling that has played actual NBA games!” posts…. however talking about the salary cap wouldn’t have let me make fun of both dudes for being white foreign guys…. and really if the NBA has fallen to the point that I can’t make fun of random Euros then I don’t even want to watch anymore :)

Besides, this stops making ANY sense as a cap move the moment we add Webber, and I hate to say this but you know the funny thing about rumors that REFUSE to die right? See Bobby Petrino + Leaving Falcons + Going to Arkansas.

It seems to me if we had an intention to bring back Webber (which I support as a gesture of good will, not as a gesture of any serious rotation spot beyond Dale Davis-Elden Campbell role), then this WAS a cap move since Mr. Davidson is dead set against suffering the luxury tax. We needed Nazr off the books in exchange for Brezec/Hermann to get a veteran’s minimum amount under the cap … cast off Flip for a 2nd rounder or some other sort of package … voila, enter Webber.

And seriously, Brezec used to be able to play well in this league, as in solid starting center well (never in a million years here though over Sheed or any of the 4 bigs). Not like that’s a present tense statement, but perhaps people forget and/or were unaware.

Your mistake (hornets) is understandable. They should still be called the Charlotte Hornets. Charlotte Bobcats does not sound right, never has.

I’d rather have these two nobodies on the team than Chris Webber. We’re clicking along and nothing will screw that up like messing with the chemistry in order to make Chris Webber’s SHOCKINGLY LIMITED SKILL SET useful to us. Say goodbye to 100 point games, say goodbye to winning the boards, say goodbye to Amir’s minutes, say goodbye to Rip’s productivity.

Webber, you want to come back? Here is six minutes per game. Hope your knees can handle it.

Hopefully this is a set up for a future trade, but if not, still a good move. Not sure how or why Joe would sign webber this year. I like amir, but don’t see why all the calls for him to get pt. He’s under contract, and is behind an all star and 2 6th man of the year candidates (dice is starting, but would be considered if he wasn’t). It’s not like we’ve got minutes that are being wasted on worse talents. Joe seems to have stocked the roster with talent/good contracts for a future trade. I would definitely like to see us in the mix for gasol when his name comes up this spring.

Brezec can play, and Hermann is probably the best player in the deal (my family lives in Charlotte, so I saw a lot of his late-season games. Pretty impressive). But the Pistons haven’t made good use of any foreign players within the last few years outside of Okur, and with Detroit’s current frontcourt depth, this probably won’t change. Still a good move from a cap perspective, and any production we got from them is a bonus. Hermann can be electrifying given the minutes, but I’m not sure if we even need that, since the players in front of him are better.

Craig- Amir put up 6 points, 7 boards, 3 blocks and a steal in 14.5 minutes on Sunday. Per 40, that’s 16.5 points, 19 rebounds, 8 blocks and 2.5 steals. He’s just starting to get comfortable. My guess is by just after the all star break Amir will reach a solid consistency and Flip will have Stuckey/Hunter running plays for him. He may not see more than 10-12 minutes per game on average, but we can expect Amir to do nothing but get better from here on out.

Read some blog entries that some Piston fans think Primo has some value.

All that Primo did for the Bobcats was to guard to the opposing center. We needed him to keep Okafor fresh and keep him from fouling out. Primo was only average on defense. His rebounding is horrible. He is clumsy, can’t dunk in a game, and he has lost his outside shot. At this point in his career, he is pretty much worthless. After a few games I suspect Dumars will bench him for good.

The Bobcats didn’t have a real Center, so Nazr is a big upgrade. Nazr can rebound and dunk. Something we greatly need. Heads up this would have been a great trade for both teams. The Pistons get rid of a contract and the Bobcats upgrade at Center.

However, the Pistons got the real steal by picking up Hermann. By looking at only the last half of last season, Hermann would have been Rookie of the Year. He didn’t fit into Coach Vincent’s scheme this year and never got a chance. He was the occasional back-up to Gerald Wallace. Hermann needs regular minutes to excel.

Hermann is known for his shooting, but he is actually a great rebounder and defender. His only weak area may be dribbling. Wait until you see his hands. He is a thrill to watch and has a one handed monster grip. Maybe the language barrier is part of the issue. It took a while for Bickerstaff to play him regular minutes last year. He scored in double digits the last 18 games of the season and usually pulled down 5-10 rebounds. He scored 30 in one game. He shot 46% from the 3 point line for the year.

If Dumars plays him just a few minutes a game, don’t expect much. However, if Hermann gets significant minutes, you will be impressed.