I could see him coming off the bench for Boston. I wouldn’t like it, but I could see it.

If one of those teams were the Pistons, would he have said that he “hadn’t made any firm decision”?

With Hermann and Brezec, do we need Webber? He’s too slow and we have youngsters to develop. I say the guy’s a liability.

It’s really all about what role he’d accept. If he’s willing to play the Lindsey Hunter “seasoned vet waiting for the playoffs” role, I’d take him. If he wants the “let me compete with Maxiell for minutes” role, I say pass.

He’s start for Boston, and would be a tremendous upgrade at center over Perkins. We should snap him up just to prevent that from happening.

and the debate begins again.

i agree with matt, if we can get him for a pittance to snap up 10 min. per game then sure, why not. however, i’m not sure him going to boston would really be all that bad. he’d be an instant defensive liability on the best defensive team in the league, his added ego and reputation might send pierce further into looney-land, and who knows how many celtics might hurt their ankles tripping over his walker.

has anyone even seen c-webb lately? if he’s not in markedly better shape than he was last season this may all be a moot point. last year the pistons machine made webber look better than he had any right to, but the playoffs showed him for what he is, old and busted.

That would be funny if he came back looking like Fat Albert. People would still go on about his basketball IQ, though.

OT: This story about King James made me chuckle:
 http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ahw9sr95bL8foTQeUmbwI0A5nYcB?slug=ap-lebronticketed&prov=ap&type=lgns

Looks like Bron Bron has a lead foot. I shouldn’t make fun of him because I’m pretty sure one day back in early 2006 driving back from Oakland County to Indiana University (it was the start of 2nd semester and I had 10th row to IU v. OSU who were both undefeated in the Big 10 at the time) I got stuck with driving on a ton of black ice that backed up 696 and completely shut down 94. When I finally crossed into the Indiana state line, I was hauling ass at similar speeds to get to Assembly Hall by halftime. At least I had a reason, Bron :)

Please not Boston. Please not Boston. Please not Boston. Please not Boston. Please not Boston. Please not Boston. Please not Boston.

I really don’t want him to go to Boston. Whoever said, “major upgrade over Perk” is right. He’d push them over the hump, IMO.

I have been pretty adamant about keeping him OFF the Pistons roster this season. I agree with Matt, however— if he can agree to limited play, AFTER maxiell, sign him. And I also agree with Kevin S.— sign him just so Boston can’t.

I wonder if PG4L has any opinion on whether or not we should sign Webber again? :)

Well, if he does go to Boston, at least we can pick and roll the s*** out of him.

If you’re the kind of person that slows down and rubbernecks when passing a car accident. Might I suggest surfing over to blogabull.com?

Why QD, that happens to be my favorite past-time! :)

Me, too! that and the perkisahump abomination…

meant “perkisachump,” but y’all know that…

Rob G: I don’t necessarily disagree with your first post, but I disagree with the “over the hump” portion of your second post. Major upgrade over Perk? A ham sandwich is a major upgrade over Perk. I kid, I kid, but it doesn’t take much in terms of a starting NBA center to upgrade over Kendo. Does Webber improve Boston’s frontcourt and general depth? Sure. He’s a legitimate starting-caliber NBA player, but does he give them some huge edge where they are otherwise deficient? I don’t think he does really. They already pass well and as has been mentioned here, he’s going to hurt their defense. As much as it pains me to say this, he’s not as athletic as Perk, but then again, any NBA player this side of Primoz Brezec is more athletic than Webber at this stage in his career.

What Boston needs most is a point guard who can hang on the defensive end with Chauncey. Rajon Rondo seems like a really good offensive player to me, but when Chauncey gets him in the post, Rondo begins to resemble a baby in the clutches of Maxiell. They don’t have a true backup PG and Chauncey creates hell for the otherwise solid Rondo. If they picked up a saavy PG who could hang with Chauncey, then I’d consider getting nervous.

If Boston made this move it would seem reminiscent to me of the ‘03-’04 Lakers stockpiling HOF caliber talent in lieu of instituting a team concept and/or emphasizing health. If Webber couldn’t put us over the hump, why Boston?

QD: Good call on blogabull. Noah is useless to them and it’s been pretty apparent from his Pierce-esque behavior in college that he’s got an uncontrollable “I’m here, we’re the best, notice me” thing going. Why draft Noah when the last thing you need is another defensive-oriented marginally skilled offensive big man? Nick Young was still there, Al Thornton, Rodney Stuckey, hell Thaddeus Young might’ve been a better choice and Acie Law might not’ve seemed like he filled a hole, but was highly regarded. Poorly run organization. It’s too bad too, I like having Chicago as a rival.

Lawyerboy,
i agree with everything you said except “He’s a legitimate starting-caliber NBA player.” I think Webber is a legit starter the same way Shaq is a legit starter. Only on a desperate, desperate team with no other options. He’s a liability on the boards and on defense and his limited mobility/skillset would fundamentally change their (successful) style of play (as it did ours).

i think the fact that webber himself is the only one talking about his comeback is telling. all these “i’m coming back, i have a list of teams” nonsense is him trying up his market value and convince teams he is in demand. if all these championship contenders are really after him why doesn’t he sign while the signing is good?

LB – Re: Rondo – yes, RR can’t defend Billups, the same way Boobie couldn’t, but like the Cavs, the Spurs (with Bowen), the Celts can and will put a bigger guard on Chauncey or trap him. I’m still sold on CWebb as a solid player, pending he has maintained or improved his conditioning this year.

If you’ve seen Brezec play lately, he seems like a stiffer version of Darko, and Dumars probably feels like C-Webb is a major upgrade than Brezec.

I’ll take C-Webb any day. Hopefully he will be a part of this team again.

Where IS PG4L on all this?

fadel: i’m not sure what you mean by stiff exactly, but he’s shown more hustle and foot speed than darko ever showed, and more than c-webb was capable of showing.

I don’t know that Brezec has shown more foot speed than Darko (not that it takes much), but hustle unquestionably.

Webber wanted to be on Detroit on his own terms. Darko never wanted to be here on any terms. Brezec wants to be on Detroit on any terms. Point: Brezec.

Brezec has shown more cheerleading capabilities. If there was a team spirit award, he would totally win. He’s always the first guy up off the bench to high-five the starters during timeouts. It’s good to have enthusiastic guys, especially on a team like Detroit because they’ve been around the block a bit.

Good luck to C-Webb wherever he lands.

I think the best basketball fit is Orlando.

OT: I was just watching American Gladiators and flipping to the Celtics/Wizards game during commercials and here’s a summary of what I saw.

1) Perkins gets the ball down low in front of the basket and tries to dunk with two hands…….but he gets hung on the rim instead because of his 2-inch vertical.
2) Garnett makes an awesome drive baseline, drawing two defenders. Sweet feed around the Wizards into Perkins’ hands…..he bobbles it, pump fakes, then travels.
3) Celtics working the ball around, looking for a good shot. Pass it inside to Perk down low with shot clock running out, and Perkins does a nice fake spin and fadeaway…..after the 24-second clock runs out.

Perk is a beast when it comes to making poor basketball plays.

But is Brezec someone we can go to in the playoffs? Certainly not, and certainly not Amir Johnson since he seems like he’s getting the ‘Darko treatment’ from Flip Saunders.

If Sheed and Dice get into foul trouble, our only options for PF and C are Maxiell and Brezec. Brezec can’t score, can’t pass, and isn’t as experienced as Webber. I’d rather have C-Webb on the roster just because he makes plays. We especially need that ability in the playoffs.

And Boston loses again. Looks like Washington is the “best team in the NBA”… Its an inconvenient Truth for paul pierce.

See what I did there? I made fun of Paul Pierce by using his alias in a funny way.

I bet the ol’ Crack Staff thought they had it when it was 77-63. Poor Celtics fans. They just don’t know how to lose gracefully by mailing it in for three quarters. They spent all that time trying hard, and still, they get a loss. MP, do you think Pierce deserves a Tommy point for his performance tonight?

If the Nets had had any balls in the 4th quarter on Friday, Boston would be looking at a nice little 4 game losing streak.

Count that Tommy Point, And a Foul LB.

I think it would probably be a good idea to get C-Webb as an insurance policy/fourth big man off the bench. But I won’t go into deep depression if we don’t, and I agree with the poster who said that if Detroit were really in the picture, C-Webb would have mentioned that fact.

I’m interested in the “we should get him so Boston doesn’t” theory. I understand the thinking, but I’m curious: have there been other examples of an NBA team getting a certain player on their roster at least in part so a major rival wouldn’t be able to get that player?

Apparently this is turning into an arms race like between the Yankees and Red Sox.

Michael- I dont think its the same. The Pistons dont care about the best record. Boston thinks the world has ended if they lose. I’m fine with Boston running wild and tiring themselves out. The Pistons will still see them in the conference finals but will have rested starters and a developed bench.

But it is fun to see Boston lose since you know that it hurts them so much and that it also shuts their fans mouths…er fingers?

Michael – It all starts with the dude from perkisabeast.com, a website that I, and 5,999,999,992 of this planet’s 6 billion living people had never heard of before the first Pistons-Celtics clash this season. He came on DBB running off some ridiculous rhyming nonsense about things such as: the Celtics were going to beat us that night, Rasheed has large gums, and that Kendrick Perkins is some sort of “beast” in the game of basketball, as well as other assorted inaccuracies. Most people from Boston are just fine. He alone, makes me despise the Celtics.

Naturally, as fans of the Pistons, and more importantly, DBB fans, some of us took offense to his actions and decided to visit his blog when the Pistons were victorious. Now, I admit I was very excited that night to prove that Boston wasn’t some invincible force that blew out every team they played, but I knew it was just one game and was way more excited to shut this guy up. Unfortunately, that wasn’t to be as he’s a moron and doesn’t work in logic like to deal with issues like we do here at DBB.

Something still irks me (and I suppose some other DBBers) about the fact that this tool acts like this and goes around with the biggest case of Patriotitis in that every game must be a victory. Further disheartening is the fact that Paul Pierce took up his cause and decided to do some jersey popping when the Celts won at The Palace. These guys are like the ‘03-’04 Lakers, walking around like they’re owed something. They’re not. And they’re not gonna get it, either. Some of us, who are juvenile like myself, can’t let go of this bloodfeud and are set on making sure that it continues.

Probably should mention that Need4Sheed is having a really generous contest – 2 suite tickets for a Pistons/Heat tilt at the Palace. Looks like you gotta do something creative (I’m thinking of those great tunes people wrote last year – D-Town! D-Town!) There’s some talented folks here at DBB – maybe Sauce can work up some haiku?

Kyle, I totally agree with what you wrote. Webber is a defensive liability, has ego problems that would drive pierce even more insane and considering how he pulled a disappearing act on us last season in the playoffs – they can have him.
And speaking of boston, i don’t want to un-jinx their little losing streak they have warming up there but isn’t it great that they lost twice to a 20-16 team? Can someone get me a picture of pierce’s face in the end of that second loss? i want to blow it up to poster size…

And one other small thing, just like it was pathetic for malone and payton to whoe themselves out to whatver team could get them a ring, i think it’s ultrapathetic for webber to go around snooping for champion potential everywhere

I really think Primoz has value in Detroit for his cheerleading/comedic abilities. Did anybody else notice that halfway through the 4th Sunday night Gangster got the ball in deep and got fouled on his way up for a dunk. He wasn’t happy that he didn’t get to finish his dunk so he picked the ball back up and threw it down with two hands. David Lee-Timberlake was standing right beside him when he did it and you could see him walking away cussing at the crowd about the stupid MF’er that tried to dunk on him after a foul. Two minutes later Lee tried to finish a lob and Gangster gave him a hard foul with 2 minutes left in a blowout. You could see Lee and some of the other Knicks talking trash back to Primoz while he was on the line. It was almost Lambeer-esque.

LB – I join you in your bloodfeud. And the feud just gets easier as the Cs lose and Perk puts up “beastly” numbers like 9 and 3.

Boston is my guess, but who cares!!!! Piston are still the team to beat.

LB- it kind of makes you lament for a Bulls/Pistons rivalry. Say what you will about Chicago, but at least they’re somewhat civil. As for Celtics fans, there’s no logic, no reason, just potty mouths and poor vocabularies.

No matter what, I’ll be going to game six in Detroit in the Conference Finals against Boston. I’ll be the one chasing Pierce around with a champagne glass trying to catch his tears after the Celt’s lose the series. Oh Tears of Truth, you will be my ultimate vice.

MP – Haha, it’s not fair to lump ALL Celtics fans in with that guy. Only some are like that. Look, we have our bad fans (see: John Green) too, we’re just not delusionally in love with some hack of a center who can’t jump 3 inches off the ground (Um LB, what about Darko?) … anymore.

Back to the original topic of the thread, doesn’t it make perfect sense for Webber to go to the Lakers? How much more serendipitous could Bynum’s injury be for Webber? I mean you know Phil has got to love Webber’s passing in terms of a triangle offense. This should be a foregone conclusion from my perspective, even though Webber will probably cause chemistry problems with his attitude (unless you can teach an old dog new tricks, in which case, come back to D Town, C Webb!).

You know things are good when you are debating the merits of Brezec v. Webber as your 4th big man.

To me, both are bad defenders because they have no lateral quickness. Brezec plays tougher and is much more willing to bang. But, Webber has quicker hands and gets a lot of steals (of course, that’s because he plays D with his hands and not his feet).

Equally good shooters and finishers. But Webber gets the edge with his passing.

I was in the anti-Webber camp before. But if he’s taking Brezec’s spot, I’m cool.

Brezec knows he’s not a passer so he probably won’t try to make complicated passes. Webber thinks he’s still a passer so he will. And he’ll average more turnovers than assists, like last year’s post-season. he had more turnovers than assists in the Bulls and the Cavs series.

and to me, webber’s almost one steal per game (.98 regular season, .88 playoffs in 2006-2007) doesn’t offset brezec’s overwhelming advantage in foot speed. at least twice now i’ve seen brezec pick up a guard at the top of the key, stay in front of them and direct them harmlessly to the baseline. on a team notorious for allowing penetration and getting killed in the paint, i would think that this ability would be more important than a high fg%.

“If Webber couldn’t put us over the hump, why Boston? "

Because Webber was replacing a comparably abled Nazr Mohammed instead of Kendrick Perkins. There is no such thing as a hump, really, and the only thing teams should want is to get better. Webber would make them better.

He makes them better Kevin, but not better than us. You’re only as good as the competition you beat, so if you get better but not enough to beat your competition, it’s essentially meaningless.

No Chris Webber-rostered NBA club ever does well with him.

Therefore, I encourage Chris to find a spot everywhere but Detroit.

Anyone who wants him as a deep bench player should also be reminded of their foolish love of Amir Johnson and the contradiction of the screams for getting younger at this time last summer while watching San Antonio humiliate the Cavaliers (instead of bouncing the Pistons) in the Finals.

I think this about says it all, from ESPN’s Daily Dime:

“Craig (PA): Since you are an expert on the fundamentals, wouldn’t an excellent passer like Chris Webber fit nicely into the triangle offense in LA?

David Thorpe: If the NBA moved to a half court, 3-on-3 game. Yes."

So ignoring most of what everyone else said, here is my argument for why we need to sign Webber.

To set up the space to sign Webber, we’d need to trade two guys (Flip and either Primoz or Walter, or even all three if the right deal came along).

We make this trade and get a small forward (Morris Peterson maybe?) that brings something different to the table than what Jarvis brings. This provides additional depth behind the hardest played player on the team – Tayshaun.

So now we have at least one roster spot open to sign C-Webb and here is why we sign him:

No matter what you say about Chris Webber being a liability, if he signs with Boston he will improve that team considerably. Boston’s offense takes a hit when you take Rajon Rondo out of there because Eddie House can’t handle the pressure at point. But if you bring Webber off the bench for 10-15 minutes a game, you allow the offense to be run through a great veteran post passer which effectively reduces the pressure on Boston’s back up PG.

Boston with Chris Webber coming off the bench is not a team that I want to face in the playoffs. Their bench is already shaping up to be pretty good and they still have roster spots open.

We sign Chris and have him play the Nazr role (which is opened up after trading Primoz). He comes in when certain matchups can be exploited or when we need to help Stuckey run the offense. But most important we sign Webber so that our competitors can’t.

Webber will take a back seat role because he wants a ring more than anything, and he’d much rather win that ring playing in Detroit.

Lawyerboy,

If you take your reasoning regarding getting better but not good enough to beat your competition, then what was the point of all of Joe D’s moves over the past three years? Are all of his moves meaningless as well simply because we didn’t win championships?

You don’t know if a move like this will make you better than your competition until after you make it. And you can’t exactly characterize a move before its made as meaningless because you don’t know how Webber on the Celtics will affect that team.

James B., I contend that if Boston were to pick up Webber, the moderate positives he brings to their team would be outweighed by moderate to serious negatives he brings. They may win more regular season games with Webber (general consensus is that we did), but I believe that it won’t help them against us in the playoffs. That’s why I don’t see this trade being meaningful for them. If they’re trying to beat us, Webber gives them more talent, but not a better shot at beating us.

Paul Pierce has a fragile ego, and now you want to throw Webber in there? Kevin Garnett is often looked at as the consummate professional, but that’s false too. He’s a hot head. Remember when he threw a basketball at Antonio McDyess and then ran from him like a little girl? Garnett’s always screaming and hollering if you actually watch him play. I’m not surprised the guy hasn’t won a title. Add a little Chris Webber to that mix, and head for the hills, Doc Rivers.

We’ve seen the extreme lack of foot speed Webber has. How is the #1 defensive team in the NBA going to maintain that level of play with him out there? As much as Kendrick Perkins generally sucks on the offensive end, he’s young and not a bad presence on defense. So Boston gets a better scorer and passer, just a more reliable offensive player than Perkins, but they also get a defensive liability. They open up their offense, sacrifice their defense. And this is all assuming that Webber performs well in serious minutes after missing half of a season. I think that’s trouble for them as well. Doesn’t sound like a great move to me.

The thing that Boston needs is either a) a REAL backup PG (one who can defend Chauncey) or b) a tougher starting PG (again, one who can defend Chauncey). Rondo is a very good player on offense, but he can’t hang with Chauncey, so they pull him. They have Tony Allen (easily rattled and not a true PG) and Eddie House (Not as good overall as Rondo, but a better jumpshot. No improvement matching up with us.). Another PG is what they need against us, not Webber. If the Webber move somehow facilitates a worthy PG coming to them, then it’s a good move in my eyes. Otherwise, it’s lateral.

When the season started, I admit I wanted Webber. I wanted him contingent on him being nothing more than insurance and/or the fourth big coming in BEHIND Maxiell. I felt sympathy for his Detroit roots and quest to win a title. After seeing Brezec’s spirited play, I’ve changed my mind. Webber says he wanted to be here, but Brezec shows it. Webber taking a back seat role while keeping his mouth shut is a serious leap of faith. That was another contigency I would’ve wanted Webber on, but I was living in a fantasy land expecting him to play nice. Instead, I’ll take the guy who shows he wants to be here, even with the vast talent disparity between the two, over the guy who just says it. It’ll guarantee that team morale won’t suffer as a result.

I hear ya LB, Boston does have two roster spots available though, and picking up Chris Webber, and another Point Guard would help (isn’t Mike James available?).

I agree with you that the personalities in Boston don’t exactly promote the idea of team play that so many of us Pistons fans take for granted (i really don’t think there is a tighter knit team on and off the court), however, they all share one thing in common: they’re all old and haven’t won a ’ship.

You have to figure that they can at least set their differences aside for a 1/3 of a season and post season if it means a better shot at winning a championship.

LB,
   you put it perfectly. the pistons know exactly what webber can and can’t do, and the “can’t” list is way longer than the “can” list (and considering his conspicuous absense, the “can” list has probably shortened since last season).

james b.,
   while i see what you’re getting at, it’s a chicken and the egg argument. they might be more likely to put their egos aside to win a championship, but their inability to put their egos aside may be the reason WHY they’ve never won a championship.

if you ask me the celts would be much better served to continue developing davis.

James B., Mike James may be on the trading block, but he’d create a gigantic luxury tax concern for the Celtics unless Houston takes back comparably contracted Celtic Brian Scalabrine (James: 4 years/23.4 million, Scalabrine: 3 years/15 million), but why would they? I think the Celtics best option is Payton even though he’s about 85 years old. No one really physically matches up on Chauncey like Payton would. James isn’t a bad choice and certainly an improvement over Rondo in terms of defending Chauncey, but I just don’t see how it’s prudent in terms of business.

Yeah I hear ya LB…I threw his name out there because for some reason I thought that he wasn’t in a good situation and couldn’t remember who he played for.

The more I think about having C-Webb on the team, the more I don’t like it. I guess maybe I just haven’t thought about it hard enough until now but it would definitely make me nervous.

I could have sworn that the Celtics said they weren’t going to go after Payton because they wanted to avoid veterans with big heads and move towards role players who buy into the system (that is, Ray, KG, and Pierce get 85% of the shots).

I also looked at who the Pistons could get as a change of pace 3 and the only guy I could come up with was Mo-Pete and I don’t really like him that much.

I also think that Walter Hermann could be the change of pace 3 we’re looking for…one reason why I think that he’s been getting the nod from Flip more recently.