The Pistons are in Milwaukee

Gamecast is up on ESPN!!!

Let’s see how Detroit rebounds from the poor shooting last night

There playing well right now, moving the ball and playing great D, I like how they push it a hell of alot more now, its smart with the young athletes they have now.

Sounds like Afflalo is on fire.

Stuckey has to be more consistant around the rim.

I think Bynum is a keeper, it’s too bad he has his height working against him.

Amir fouls out, haven’t heard the whole game but it sounds like the last foul was a terrible call.

In filtering the drink speak, I have two words for you:
“motherfucking arron afflalo”.

And here’s another three:
“cage amir!”

Afflalo = Niiiiice!

what a game for the young guards

Afflalo drop 28, and Stuckey goes for 15pts 10asts and 5stls.

Nothing like a Bucks game to make your team look like an offensive juggernaut.

Magic never claimed to have AIDS

As far as I know Magic doesn’t have AIDS

Magic stopped playing because he was HIV positive

Being HIV positive is not having AIDS

Being HIV positive increases your chances of getting AIDS

However, not everyone who is HIV positive gets AIDS

Magic to my knowledge remains HIV positve but has never gotten AIDS

DAMMIT! I spent my precious, precious money and time and watch that abomination of a game against the Wiz. I watched as Tay chucked up bricks and Stuckey coughed up the ball. Afflalo did one little drive; that was it.

And then, of course, tonight they score 111 points and Afflalo goes crazy. And I saw none of it. DAMMIT!

Amir actually hit a 16 foot jump shot tonight. LOL

He played well in the first half and again got called for an offensive foul (moving pick) and a foul on a blocked shot.

I didn’t listen to the second half, because I am watching the Suns and Nuggets play so I don’t know what happened on the 3 fouls that he got in the 2nd half.

He did have 9 points though which is a high for him so far.

He will continue to get better as the year goes along.

The fallacy of the lack of offensive games by Afflalo and Amir

I don’t have a clue where this dumb idea arose that Afflalo can’t score.

He averaged almost 20 points a game playing for UCLA. Anyone who follows the Bruins knows that scoring 20 a game for a Howland coached team is like scoring 30 + a game in the NBA.

Afflalo will become a very good scorer over his NBA career. We are already seen evidence of that.

Amir has always scored wherever he has played. People forget that in May 2007 he scored 20 points against Boston in the last game of the year.

He has the moves and the ability to average 15 + points.

It may take a year or two of starting but I have no doubt that he will be a good scorer in the future. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me to see him have at least a few 15 + scoring efforts this season.

I didnt click the link, but the Magic faking AIDS reference was probably a reference to the political (im being non-partisan!) talkshow that for no good reason said Magic faked AIDS. It was just a few days ago and Magic responded and made them look like foolish jerks.

On the other hand… that show sounds pretty terrible.

@Mike:
“I don’t have a clue where this dumb idea arose that Afflalo can’t score.”

It arose for anyone who watched Afflalo play a single game last season. Don’t get me wrong, I think Afflalo deserves more credit than any other player, even moreso than Stuck. But to question “this dumb idea” is to be a bit ignorant— dude scored at 41% last season.

That’s where this “dumb idea” arose that Afflalo “can’t score”. More like “couldn’t consistently contribute last season”. Along with others here on DBB, I’m among the first to raise my glass to Showbe. He deserves more accolades than any other Piston I can name when it comes to hard work.

MP, brace yourself, I’m going to agree with Mike. Both Afflalo and Amir can score. They can’t score at will, but either can go for 15-20 points on a given night. I’m bullish on both. I liked Afflalo’s game at the college level, and I think he’s a potential Bruce Bowen type player on this level. He might not be the 3 point shooter Bowen is, but he can contribute in more ways offensively. Hopefully he doesn’t feel the need to stomp on people’s junk.

Afflalo shot 41%
Durant shot 43% I think most people agree he will be a scorer
Melo shot 43% as a rookie
Baron Davis shot 42% as a rookie
Lebron shot 42% as a rookie
Kobe shot 42% as a rookie
Stuckey shot 40% last year
Zeke shot 42% as a rookie

People need to learn more and watch college players before they make dumb statements based upon the garbage that is written in ESPN and the like.

@OtherMatt:
I’m with you til the end, my friend. I’m bullish on Afflalo, Amir and Stuckey— and have been on here since day one (or at least until Matt go me interested in Amir, which was on Game 1).

While I love these guys, have supported them tooth and nail since their drafts, I am gonna give them some tough love until they show me the numbers I know they’re capable of. No disrespect until then.

@mike:
You’d better read a few of my comments before you suggest that I “make dumb statements based upon the garbage that is written in ESPN”. I’ve been here a long, long time, princess— I know this team and I support them from the last player on the bench through the most cherished starter. Point being, I’m gonna hold this team to task— and when I say a guy hasn’t shown reason to respect his shot— a motherfuckin’ guy hasn’t shown reason to respect his shot.

I appreciate the little walk through history you gave me. It was nice to see the historical FG% of past stars. After this date, you gonna put out? Want some coffee?

Look, the reason ANYONE has questioned Afflalo’s shot is that it hasnt’ hit the basket in the regular season. I hopelessly want it to, I sincerely want Afflalo to connect with Stuckey for the assist. I want those two to be the backcourt of the future.

But to argue against me and throw some stats I could have looked up on my own? Honestly, you’re barkin’ up the wrong tree.

and to any others aside from Princess Mike:

As much as I loathe him as a Pistons fan, I read this quote and kind of hoped it was the Bad Boys who perpetuated this kind of trouble:

“Pierce took a hard blow to the mouth as he tried to drive past Artest and was momentarily stunned and had to leave the game to get treatment on his bruised shoulder. Artest later bodied Ray Allen into the first row of fans . . .and things were just getting started.”

@mike:
You’d better read a few of my comments before you suggest that I "make dumb statements based upon the garbage that is written in ESPN".>>

Sorry if you thought it was you that I was referring to.

In fact I wasn’t even referring to anyone on this forum.

I was referring mostly to a couple of other Pistons forums and one in particular that went nuts last year when Joe D. drafted him. They said things like Afflalo was a worse pick than Darko and then quoted some jerk on ESPN and another at DraftExpress (whom I actuallyu like most of the time) who both said that Afflalo was not athletic enough to be any more than a NBA scrub.

Then there were the people who said he couldn’t play defense because he couldn’t guard Brewer in the NCAA final four. Anyone who had watched Afflalo play knows that he played great defense in college and in those two games against Florida the officiating was so one sided in favor of Florida it made me want to puke. I recall that Afflalo fouled out of one of those games and he never fouled out, ever and very rarely ever came close to it.

So there have been a lot of people who have bashed him without having a friggen clue about his game and his person, i.e. character.

Again, sorry if you thought I was referring to you or anyone on this forum.

^
I think you are talking about MLIVE? The basketball knowledge at that forum is seriously lacking.

Afflalo was UCLAS all time best 3 point shooter but he didnt have that NBA 3Ball range yet, and quite frankly it is normal for shooters to struggle in their first year of the NBA. I never understand why some people expect rookies to make the translation into the NBA without some sort of transition period.

Im sure the same ones that complained about Arron are seriously complaining about Amirs preseason performances as well. Players that dont play in the NBA need time to get acclimated to the NBA, that is common sense.

In any case, it is just preseason, lets see Arron (and everyone else) in the regular season before making judgements on their performances.

Here is a pretty thorough breakdown of Amir’s game last night.

I am not this guy but I have followed his posts for a couple of years and know that he is a big Amir fan. (Why not LOL)

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Re: At Milwaukee Oct 11 8:30PM

Mercury asked me a question over at the other board. I took the time to go over the game log to answer his question, in detail. He asked who Villanueva scored all those points on. Here is my answer:

Here is some of the answer. Amir left the game with 2 minutes to go in the first quarter, and we were up 24-14 at the time. Charlie had 8 points at the time. Since I was only listening to the game, I can’t tell you who was guarding the guy every time, but I can tell you only scored 8 points – while the rest of the Milwaukee team only scored 6 in those 10 minutes. That is some pretty good D.
Villanueva also missed 3 shots, threw the ball away twice, and fouled Amir to stop Amir from driving past him, in these 10 minutes. Only once did I hear that Villanueva backed Amir down – and Villanueva missed that one. (Villanueva loves to hit 15 foot jumpers for the most part.)
Amir got some offense himself during this stretch, indeed, the best scoring he has done so far in this early preseason. This was the longest Amir has stayed in a game to start the game. He had no defensive fouls, but was called on 2 offensive fouls trying to set picks.

Villanueva and Amir came in at the same time to finish the last 4 minutes of the first half. We gained another 4 points on Milwaukee, which at that point meant Amir was a plus 14 when paired with Villanueva.
Villanueva immediately drained a 17 footer. After that, Villanueva missed twice, had the ball stolen from him by Amir.
Amir also blocked a shot during this stretch. Amir still has only the two offensive fouls to this point. Villanueva had scored a total of 10 points, while Amir was in the game over a total of 14 minutes. The rest of the Milwaukee team scored 12 points in those same 14 minutes. (22 points in 14 minutes total for Miwaukee team.)

Amir played the first 4.5 minutes of the 2nd half. Maxiell came in for him at that time. Amir had just traveled. Villanueva did not score during this stretch, missing the one shot he did take. As a team, the Pistons did poorly, losing 6 points off their lead. But we were still up 11 when Amir left the game. Let me see, thats 10 points now for Villanueva over 18.5 minutes of play so far while in the game with Amir. And Villanueva ain’t shooting 50%. Oh, and Amir picked up his 3rd foul, fouling Ridnour.

Amir played a couple of minutes in the 4th quarter. We were minus 3. Amir scored 3 points, Villanueva 2, in those 2 minutes. In total, Villanueva scored 12 points while Amir was in the game. (And though I did not see the game, I know most of Villanueva’s shots were jumpers with various people guarding him out away from the basket.) In all, while both were in the game, Detroit enjoyed a 5 point advantage. We won by 11.
Charlie Villanueva scored 26 points in all. This breaks down as follows:
12 points in the 20.5 minutes in the game with Amir.
14 points in the 15.5 minutes in the game without Amir.

Amir scored all nine of his points while matched up against Villanueva. So Villanueva won the matchup by 3 points since he scored 12. I will take that, considering that the rest of the Milwaukee team had pretty bad time of it in the scoring department – and I know Amir had a lot to do with that.

The link is pistonsforum.com and go to the game thread page 5

I have noticed in listening to the game that Amir gets a lot of offensive fouls almost all in setting picks. I think that this should be easily correctable with coaching and playing time, especially once he gets more familiar with the offensive tendencies of the guys on the first unit.

I recall in the game yesterday that Amir got a three second call on a play in which Champion said that Stuckey should have shot the ball and not held on to it so long thereby getting Amir caught in the lane for 3 seconds while Amir was positioning himself either for a pass or for a possible offensive rebound.

The point is that a lot of Amir’s mistakes besides being experience related and correctable with coaching are just do to lack of familiarity with his teammates tendencies.

It’s very sensible to question Afflalo’s offensive abilities. Last year he was not a great shooter. He is also a below average athlete at the shooting guard position and somewhat undersized at 6’5. He is not a great ball handler. I’m quite confident he will never be able to penetrate and consistently score in the paint.

Given his work ethic, I think it is reasonable to assume he will progress nicely as a jump shooter. We are beginning to see evidence of that in the preseason. I’ll concur with Other Matt that given his defensive abilities and the fact that shooting open threes from the corner is something one can improve with hard work (which AA has in spades), Bruce Bowen seems like a reasonable ceiling. Not a likely outcome – but a good ceiling.

The LeBron and Carmelo fg pcts are asinine – first, these guys weren’t drafted as lottery picks b/c scouts thought they’d come in day 1 and make it rain from 18 feet. It’s because they had the potential to be the total package – breaking down defenses, penetrating, etc. The thinking with these guys is that you draft the outrageous athlete who “does the things you can’t coach,” and they become an NBA caliber outside shooter with practice. If the point of the fg pcts is to suggest Afflalo might one day shoot as well as some of these guys, I think it’s possible. But it doesn’t mean he’ll be a good offensive player…

I’d also add that for many of these guys (Kevin Durant comes to mind), their role on offense in their rookie year was quite different than that of AA. While AA’s fg pct was essentially a commentary on his ability to make open jump shots as a third or fourth option on the second unit, Durant was the focal point of his offense (and hence, the other team’s defense). I think Durant puts up a very different fg pct if he’s on Detroit in AA’s role…that dude’s jumper is ridiculous.

I just want to say, The Lions got robbed out of their first win of the season. I know it really doesn’t matter but how pathetic do you have to be to cheat a team with out a win?

I agree. The Lions got robbed big time!!!!!! The worst call was when they said Calvin Johnson fumbled that pass. B.S.!!

Anyways, is there any word about Chauncey’s ankle injury? He rolled it last night and I don’t know how seriously.

Haha Afflalo got into it with RJ for a double tech? I love it. And then RJ gets ejected later :) I hate that clown.

i was watching last season and to me afflalo is great on the break, he just had a streaky jump shot. and when i say great i mean it, in my mind he was behind only tay as the best fast break finisher on the team. plus he gives himself fast break chances with his stellar defense. if he’s hitting his jumper regularly, he’ll be dynamite. certainly a lateral move from jarvis hayes, with more room for improvement.

@Mike:
“Again, sorry if you thought I was referring to you or anyone on this forum.”

No worries, my mistake. I would have responded a little differently if I hadn’t drank so many Kirin’s with dinner. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Arron Afflalo was measured as 6’7’’ in socks with a 6’9’’ wingspan he is not too short to be a SG but you can certainly make the argument for SF.

If you watched Afflalo in college, then you would know that his jumpshot is textbook he is an extremely smooth shooter in the midrange. Afflalo has good handles for an off guard as well, so I disagree with that statement as well. As for his ability to penetrate, he does okay but he is not Stuckey that is not going to be his role with this team. Afflalo is going to be a lockdown defender and complimentary offensive player in the Raja Bell mold.

MP, dude Ichiban is a fantastic beer. The only place I’m able to get it where I live is at PF Chang’s. Is there another restaurant that has it on draft that I’m not aware of?

I definitely had a few last night and would like to move to your side of the fence regarding “tough love” for our guys. This year’s version of the Michigan Wolverines are causing me to re-evaluate the way I look at my teams. Amir and Afflalo (and Stuckey), I think have moderate-to-high ceilings as players. Here’s to hoping that they find a way to get there.

This is from Chad Ford a week before the draft

“Afflalo also has done well in workouts. He measured 6-foot-6 in socks, had a 6-foot-9 wingspan and is a muscular 225.

“He’s was a man among boys in our workout,” one GM told Insider. “He’s been really well-coached, shoots it well and does a lot of little things. You don’t draft him to be a star, but he can fill a role for you defensively and he’ll hit some big shots.”

None of us saw the game, unless someone is unfortunate enough to live or be in Milwaukee. But Amir’s stat line looked respectible 3-4 fg; a few O-rebounds, etc. except that he had 6 fouls. Afflalo’s was ridiculous — he is a gamer if given the opportunity. One of the things that made the ‘04 Pistons so good, and better than the ’05 team was the stifling full court defense of Hunter and James for 10-15 minutes a game. Teams were having difficulty just getting the ball past half court. I can definitely see Afflalo in that Mike James role, if only Lindsey Hunter wasn’t that old. With some work, I think a lineup of Stuckey, Afflalo, Amir, J-Max, and Hermann could give an effective 10-15 defensive minutes that could wear down an opponent. The ability of the Pistons to have that lineup on the floor even for limited minutes depends greatly on Stuckey’s ability to shoulder most of the offensive responsibility. For that reason, I like what I hear and see from Michael Curry incorporating these guys, and hope he learned something from watching what the great Larry Brown did in ’04.

Cody that’s precisely what I think MP and I would say his ability is…“not a star but filling a role defensively” – he clearly did not come into the league with NBA three point range, but I think given his work ethic, he may eventually hit “big shots.”

On the height issue, I have seen him listed everywhere as 6’5 and did not see an official measurement at the combine (not sure he participated). My experience is that official height listings are inflated, not deflated. Regardless, at 6’5 or 6’6, he’s average to slightly below average for a 2…

I’m hardly saying Afflalo stinks. I actually clamored for him last year to play over Hunter. I was just reacting to the notion that he is somehow underrated offensively or our “secret weapon.” He is what he is — a high energy, hard working, good defender with the potential to be, as you say, a Raja Bell type complementary player…

Jbstork, I like how Curry seems to get that there doesn’t need to be a “Zoo Crew.” Rather, he seems focused on putting out lineups with complementary parts. Hence, Amir’s defense, rebounding, and energy on the starting unit and Dice’s jump shot on a somewhat offensively-starved second unit. I agree that Stuckey will have to shoulder a lot of offensive responsibility on the second unit, but I’m hopeful that Dice and a starter or two helps mitigate that. I was not a fan of the Flip Saunders “line one, line two” hockey theory of substitutions.

Forty, I was not a fan of anything Flipper did. Certainly when the second unit was out there with at most one starter, they often looked stagnant offensively, especially when Billups was not that one starter. But I think part of that was due to Flipper not letting those guys play their game. They are not going to be a good half court lineup, but that group should be a good pressure defensive team that can get their offense off of turnovers. When they are forced into a half court set, however, it is going to have to be Stuckey and/or one of the five starters from last year that carries that offensive load. One of the other big differences between the 04 and 05 teams (besides Mike James) was the loss of Corliss Williamson and Memo. In 04, LB could put the entire second unit out there and rely on those guys to get points — not as much in 05.

@Other Matt:
“MP, dude Ichiban is a fantastic beer. The only place I’m able to get it where I live is at PF Chang’s. Is there another restaurant that has it on draft that I’m not aware of?”

Unfortunately, my source of Ichiban is many, many miles away from Metro Detroit. I’ll be living in Iowa City through next summer, and there are zero Pistons fans here— but plenty of Ichiban. A few friends of my girlfriend own a sushi/tapas fusion restaurant not far from us that serves Kirin on tap. It’s within walking distance, which works out swimmingly (I do not, under any circumstance, ever drink and drive).

If I did know of a spot to get a Kirin on draft in metro Detroit, and I still lived there, trust me— I would have already bought you one. I get back to the Detroit area once every two or three years. My last visit was last month— and I got a chance to meet our very own Matt Watson. Pretty damn cool to finally get a chance to shake my favorite sports writer’s hand. :)

If there is a DBB night at the palace this season, I might just try and make the 7 hour drive out…

I was just hoping there was another national or semi-national chain that carried it. I actually live just outside of Philly, with the exception of the past 5 months (and next 1) when I’m in DC. I don’t get back to Detroit too often. I’ll be back for the Michigan-NW game and at Christmas and that’s probably it. For some unknown reason, I can find Sapporo all over the place by where I live, which is okay, but much I prefer Ichiban. Weird that you can find it in Iowa and I can’t find it around Philly (although I’m sure I’m just not looking hard enough).

I’d love to get to a Pistons game at the Palace this year. I went to at least 1 game a year for a long time, but haven’t been back to the Palace in a couple of years. Going to games in Philly and Washington isn’t quite cutting it. I’m hoping to get up to the Garden to see them play the Knicks, since I have some friends that just moved to NYC. As I type, I’m talking myself into taking a long weekend home this spring…

There’s a new Ichiban in Ann Arbor, off of washtenaw. Not exactly the Metro Area, but hey.