Do we still have the sellout streak going?

Deeetroooiit Baaasketbaaaaalllll!!!!

I know the question will come soon, so: http://www.justin.tv/ender195
Link to the game

Lets go Stones!

Just a thought, but Blazers are 7-0 at the Rose Garden, and 4-6 away from it right now.

That feed is making my eyes hurt.

Its like claymation basketball!

Very cold shooting to start.

this feed is better quality http://www.justin.tv/mordane3

yes thats better

Curry just put in The Future vs. Portland

Apparently the Pistons didn’t read my oppo research.

Anyone get the feeling Curry just has no idea and threw the bench in as a screw it kind of move?

I think he did it because the starters aren’t doing anything. Not hustling, not moving the ball. So it was time to make a change and go zoo crew.
and amir got a call to go his way!?! Am I dreaming?

Walter is playing very well. Curry should give him many more minutes.

Dumb putback by Amir.

Damn flight delays, now I’m only going to see the second half. Starters sucking?

Sheeeed!

Fiiiiddy!!

Good for the bench. I didn’t see the 1st quarter which must have been ugly. I love Stuckey’s energy and attacking, but man he gets stuffed a lot when he drives relentlessly at a big man.

Sheed.

thank you ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssstuckey!!!! with the nice defense and offense

I think pulling the starters and going all bench is pretty much what Curry said he would do at the beginning of the season. I definitely liked it. They weren’t getting it done. Of course, if the bench hadn’t come through, I might be singing a different tune.

Kwame > G.O.

15-0 run. gotta love the Zoo Crew.

I take back my prior comment. Curry must know something about this Stuckey kid :)

if stuckey can continue to play like this, i may finally get over kbillups being gone haha

why is AI back in the game?

My theory is that Curry wants the starters to rest the bench so that Stuckey can take over in the 4th.
Yeah.

wtf is AI doing on defense? i just saw him out there on that last possession literally guarding no one……

Wtf, did portland just make every shot in the last 4 minutes? Did the starters come back in and play shitty d?

Curry didn’t have the team prepared for this game. These wide-open threes are ridiculous.

I just got to watch the last six minutes and WHY is Kwame Brown playing so much! He is soo awful. He’s not gonna get better. He has all the talent in the world but he is a lazy dumbshit bum. He won’t move! And if he did, he wouldn’t know where to go, which is prolly why he doesn’t move.

With how the Blazers have been shooting lately, plus Detroit still a long ways away from playing good defense, this type of game wasn’t that hard to see coming…

Luckily there’s still a 2nd half. I’d like to see Curry let the younger guys get some extended minutes this game to see what they can do against some of the other strong youths of the league.

I only saw a few minutes, but it seemed like Kwame played decent. Did get abused a couple times on high S/R, but I wouldn’t call it awful. But I may have missed him sucking when I wasn’t watching. Plus Amir had 3 fouls, so it was Max or Kwame. Max would have guarded S/R better most likely but we were getting hammered on Offensive glass and Kwame is superior rebounder.

“I just got to watch the last six minutes and WHY is Kwame Brown playing so much! "

Kwame Brown does things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. Except turnovers. They show up.

“Curry didn’t have the team prepared for this game. These wide-open threes are ridiculous.”

As a Portland resident I see this team do that pretty regularly. I wouldn’t put all the blame on Curry. The Blazers have a way of creating those shots and they’ve been making them against everyone. The flat offense from the starters has more to do with it.

LOL at kevin s’s comment

but i was one of the biggest kwame haters, trust me… but he’s played fine so far for the pistons i must admit… i thought he played well in the first half today… no complaints

AI on the other hand… so frustrating, cuz he has so much talent, and i know he has the ability to play better defense, but he just doesnt… i dunno why

Whoever said Curry has no clue and just throws things in for the sake of throwing things in, is right. He’s done it since the start of the season. One would like to think, he’s tinkering and sorting his rotation out during this first month. My guess is he’s all like “fuck it.” Cant say it makes us boring though.

Shame bout the 1st quarter, hopefully we can put the pressure on them in the 3rd qtr.

jesus christ AI is pissing me off… another blake drive to the basket, with AI trailing the entire play… wasnt even a screen on that play

Curry needed to start Stuckey and Afflalo in the second half instead of Iverson and Rip.

So we’re adding Steve Blake to the list of players who can light up Iverson?! Motherfucker.

I have a feeling in my bones…

rip startin to get his groove back baby!

Rip creating on the break. Almost traveled, but got Tay a layup. Where’s Boney?

Also something that Kwame Brown does that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet: draw fouls. If only he could make a free throw shot more than once every few games it’d be a lot more potent of a weapon.

We’re so winning this game.

…we will pull this out.

Don’t sweat it TDP, when we start using “my grandmother” references when discussing who can light up Iverson, then you know a motherfucker response is probably deserved.

Until then, it’s all cool baby.

My GMAT on the revison on the other hand, not so hopefully. :(

Old Sheed put New Sheed on his butt.

Cronus, you’re right. I should have appreciated the fact the Ridenour didn’t light up Iverson the other night.

smh@ me not putting a coherent sentence together…

Classic Detroit Defense. We took it back to 2004 with that one.

We really match up badly with Iverson in there…

Nice hustle by big little hand man

sigh

Ed Malloy can suck my balls.

lol@ Iverson gaurding Pryzbilla on that last play. lol@ the defense

If this was 99-01, he would have banked that in.

Iverson passed on the 2 on 2 situation, but attacks when it’s 3 on 4? Yuck…

I now regret buying tickets for a Sunday game in February.

That Sheed block was Ben on Zo like.

thank you… finally we yanked AI outta there

STUCK-NUTTS!

Nice trap by Afflalo and Stuckey!

Close enough.

Captain Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

Nice hustle, Amir! Hooray!

Amirzing

Come on boys!

Brandon Roy vs. Afflalo is a nice match-up.

Sheeed!

i have a heterosexual man crush on stuckey

Sheed’s got to be talking that miss up. Ball dont lie fellas.

Amiiir!

AMIR!!!!!

Amiiiiiiiiiir!

I have one on the entire bench

This lineup is absolutely killing the Blazers! We look better with Stuckey running the show, no doubt in my mind.

Energy. Energy. Im buzzed!

This game is fun

Stuckey falls in love with dribbling out on the perimeter too much, if he could take that out of his game, he’ll be making all-star trips in no time.

Not that having someone like Iverson to learn from now helps in the least on the matter…

You think Chicago wants to rethink its Aldridge/Thomas swap?

These guys will drain you with there treys. Damn.

This a fucking stupid lineup Curry.

I wish amir took charges…

Hey you know who would have made that?

It almost looked like he didnt touch him.

Dear nba, the foul you just called on amir is committed by kevin garnett on every celtics offensive possession.

Cheers,
Forty

Knew this was a stupid lineup. Too small coach numbnuts.

Too small perhaps?

stucky is trying to hard. he is dribbling with no clue where he is gonna go. why take rip out? he was on fire. get the ball to herman on the wing, that’s why he is out there… jesus do something

No heart.

Damn….

No clue.

Boy if that isnt symbolic of everything

…and back to football.

Guess I was wrong. Entertaining game anyways.

shoot when your open stucky you fucking rook

Curry really is an idiot. Even Flip’s adjustments werent that stupid.

AI is so gone after this season lol

sigh

looks like we’re back to .500 in the post-AI era

I don’t like losing with Tayshaun Prince, Rip Hamilton, and Rasheed Wallace on the bench. Come on Mike, at some point you’re acting like Charlie Weis and being clever for clever’s sake with these lineups.

It’s really impressive how you can let your team go on, what, a 0-13(?) run to end the game and make absolutely no adjustments.

he´s giving up with that 4Q lineups

wtf

Even though its a loss, I was very happy with the bench. The starters need to have a group therapy session and really talk some shit out. Im looking at you Rip.

stucky shows so much potential, however he also make rookie mistakes. twice he passed off to deep in the paint on a fast break, also he missed some fts that were key. he will be fine, just a matter of learning.

also shouldn’t we be trapping down 8 here?

0-4 on Sundays

not an afternoon of magic

Curry needs to address the 1st quarter now. You cant spot a team a big lead and expext to come back every time. Maybe Amir should start again.

nice to see blaha and k giving credit to the blazers
they really have a nice squad

Agreed Jay, they are good now and only going to get better. Pritchard!

The clock is ticking on the adjustment period, here.

Iverson was a minus 30

Yes folks a -30

This guy is a definite turd.

Agreed, we can only spot AI and Curry so much time with that.

Maybe Amir should start again.>>

Amir should continue to be where Stuckey is.

If Stuckey starts then Amir should start

If Stuckey comes off the bench then Amir should come off the bench.

Tay and Rip never pass the ball to Amir and AI is a head case.

Don’t be a jerk, Mike. AI had only -28 :)

Curry needs to address himself, that small lineup change in the 4th was stupid. Even Blaha and K were like WTF?

Slow starts are bad of course, what else is new with his team? But we were leading in the 4th with a specific lineup and changed it up to a small non-D playing club that got bodied inside and outside.

Why the f*** did I buy League Pass?!

Also as a childhood Iverson fan, its depressing to see what’s happened to him.

not an afternoon of magic, indeed. This sucked, but there were spurts in this game that really had me excited. At the end of the 3rd beginning of the 4th we played great D and were really taking it to the hole. We are slightly less reliant on jump shooting to win. Everyone is being pretty hard on Curry’s rotation, but most of us disliked flip’s rotations because they were too tight. That line-up with Hermann where he got stuck with Roy was terrible, but aside from that I really like the mix he had going. Also, thought he should have left Rip in. He definitely made some mistakes, but I’m willing to take that since I wanted more meaningful bench minutes. If this sort of thing is still going on in February, then it’s time to be worried. One area that Curry does deserve criticism is Sheed continuing to float on the perimeter. He talked a big talk about putting Sheed in the post but he might actually be playing more on the perimeter than last year. That shit drives me up a wall.

Amir did a great job today setting picks.

That one in the 4th quarter that he got called for the foul on was as Blaha or Kelser said due to Stuckey not waiting until Amir was stationary before making his move.

Other than that Amir did a great job at setting picks for Stuckey and opening up the lane for him to get to the basket.

The two of them play well together.

Unless Herrmann is making 3 point shots he is useless.

@ TDP:

So you can watch better teams.

Don’t be a jerk, Mike. AI had only -28 :)

Well ist was at a minus 30. LOL

I think that the Pistons best lineup is

Sheed
Amir
Rip
Stuckey
Prince

Iverson had 9 points on 9 shots and was efficient at the stripe. He had only 1 TO. While he was certainly not great today, it was hardly an unmitigated disaster.

There seems to be a consensus that Stuckey was wildly better today, but he had 5 ast/5 TO. Looks to me like the production from PG was just generally not great today…

“Unless Herrmann is making 3 point shots he is useless”

the same could be said of Ray Allen…

"Unless Herrmann is making 3 point shots he is useless"

the same could be said of Ray Allen…>>

I’ll drink to that

I still think that this team is too talented to keep losing and I think that given time they will be a very good team. But today, for an instant, I wished that AI would break an ankle and be gone for the rest of the season.

Forgive me Pistons nation.

I could have gone for an afternoon of magic. Oh well.

Curry seems to be a big fan of boutique lineups. If Iverson wants to take a dump on our season, there isn’t much Curry can do about it…

But it is ludicrous to have Kwame start for this team when Amir outperforms him night after night. It is ridiculous not to find real minutes for Herrmann when he has been our most effective offensive player.

I wasn’t a fan of Flip’s firing, and this is why. Curry was clueless today. There is more to coaching than just yapping about hustle.

That 4th quarter with Herrmann as the PF was horrible.

They have no idea what they want to do on offense. Give it to a guard and have the guard take a jumper or drive and hope something good happens is not an offense. Do they actually run, you know, PLAYS, anymore?

“I think that the Pistons best lineup is Sheed, Amir, Rip, Stuckey, Prince”

Mike,

I agree with you. However, I don’t mind interchanging Amir & Kwame depending on the matchups. I do believe that Stuckey should be starting. Stuckey has proven that he can run the team. AI could come off the bench and do what he does best — score. Will someone please join me in a movement to start Stuckey!

LaMarcus Aldridge continues his tradition of lighting up the Pistons. Dude is good.

G.O.>>>>>>>>>>Kwame

Amir plays a lot better with Stuckey and vice versa.

If you saw the picks that Amir was setting tody for Stuckey except for that one in which he was called for a foul because Stuckey didn’t wait for Amir to get set, Stuckey and Amir work really well together.

Amir is a lot quicker than Brown so Stuckey can take more advantage of Amir’s getting to the spot quicker and setting the picks than he can with Brown. With Amir setting the picks it doesn’t give the defense that much time to get set because Amir can get to the spot a lot quicker than Brown.

I just don’t think Amir and AI are a good combination for a number of reasons.

Amir hasn’t played that much with Bynum so I can’t comment on that.

Personally I am more comfortable with Brown starting simply because Amir is still picking up too many quick fouls. Whether those are questionable calls is besides the point.

Anyway it is who finishes and not who starts.

I would have no problem with Curry starting Bynum ahead of AI and turning AI into a Marbury Man.

Whether Amir will ever be able to get his foul problem under control only time will tell.

He is just so damn active that he puts himself a lot more often in position for a foul to get called on him than other players do. Hopefully, over time he can get a better handle on his foul rate and be able to play 30 plus minutes. In the meantime I think it is better for Amir to come off of the bench.

The team talented but it kinda lacks leadership as well. Its weird.

By the way the most depressing thing was watching NBA Fastbreak last night on ESPN. They were talking about who was gonna compete in this east and win at year’s end. Didnt even mention the Pistons at all. Like not even to acknowlege there decline. Nothing. No mention whatsoever. Didnt even mention them as a darkhorse.They said Cleveland, Boston and Orlando.

I know thats just the facts, but after in the mix for years, its pretty weird seeing the change. :/

Ya’ll can yell at me if you want but I honestly can’t not say this:

If you take the game vs LA out of the equation doesn’t it seem like we beat AWFUL teams and get killed whenever we play anyone good?

I realize that’s probably oversimplfying but it DEFINATELY seems to me that we can’t handle balanced teams with multiple scoring options. We let WAY WAY WAY too many guys who aren’t that good “Go absolutely off” and if the opposition ALSO gets secondary scoring from someone else, we just can’t make it back up fast enough.

This doesn’t even LOOK like the team I’ve been watching the past few years that’s for sho…

waits for Mike Payne, Forty, and LawyberBoy to begin their turn-around scenarios

Matt, it’s pretty clear why you won’t address the criticisms that have surrounded this team for years…your so emotionally delicate that the thought of people calling out the baseless and moronic theories presented by yourself and some of the fans on this site is too much for you to overcome.

Before he died, George Carlin warned of the “pussification” of the American male.

You Matt, along with some of this site’s most prominent posters are a bunch of goddamn pussies…

I thank you for creating this site for one reason; it’s made me realize that while Detroit prides itself on its “blue collar”, “hard-working”, tough-nosed defensive, no man is above the team and no fan is above the principal mentality is, well, for the most part, that perception is a complete crock of shit.

Thank you for that Matt Watson.

And thanks to the rest of you as well, you’re finally getting the team you deserve.

mike,

I wouldn’t turn AI into a Marbury Man just yet, but I do understand your frustration. I think Stuckey would get us off to better starts and we wouldn’t have to come from behind so much. If Stuckey was our starter, we would look more like the team we’ve grown accustomed to watching.

I agree with PG4L. This team is mediocre even with Iverson, and I think the main reason it seems like this is because we don’t play defense anymore.

2008-09
PF PA Diff
96.7 96.6 +0.1

2007-08
97.5 90.1 +7.4

PG4L: There’s also the win against the Cavs. Which was followed up by big losses to Boston and Minnesota. The team is like night and day, but thinking on it, the Lakers and the Cavs were the only wins this season that were impressive.

I’m not sure if anyone has seen, or mentioned, the True Blue Pistons post about Sunday’s game against the Blazers (and I’m not going to scroll up to find out), but here it is…

http://truebluepistons.blogspot.com/

Langlois enlightens us about why Curry sat the starters. Also, was anyone else aware of a Tayshaun-Curry feud?

Here’s to a December like that of 2007! (Right…)

Oh christ curry, now it’s tayshaun’s fault?

Right now I see a low seed, first round exit team. I still favor the trade, but I don’t see a lot of hope for more than that.

They can still get better, but sacrifices must be made and I haven’t seen the will to do that.

Tayshaun has good reason to complain. As he mentioned, he is playing out of positon as a point forward! Tayshaun’s out of position and Rip can’t find a rhythm. Curry could rectify the problem by starting Stuckey. We are 3-0 when Stuckey starts.

Tay should have played more; sheed is the one that is playing too many minutes and it shows; however, with sheed, curry has no choice; curry seems a bit overwhelmed.

This is the same guy who took the blame for a loss a while back? A preseason one, at that?

vivian,

I agree that Curry is overwhelmed. He had the team well prepared for the season and then we traded Chauncey, our leader. Let’s not forget that we started off 4-0 before AI joined the team. Dumars has said that he wants Curry to trust his instincts. His instincts have got to be telling him that it can’t work with AI at starting point guard. This is why I believe that Curry may have to make a bold move and start Stuckey over Iverson to make this thing work.

@Detroit Pistons Fans: Welcome to the Allen Iverson Paradox

He is one of the best scorers in league history, so anyone would want him on their team…But he’s too small to guard a SG and he’s too slow, or maybe too lazy, to guard a PG. So he may also be one of the biggest defensive liabilities in league history.

The same thing has happened with every team he’s been on.

During timeout with six minutes left in a close game:

Curry: “OK, team, we’re playing pretty well, so I’m going to change the lineup. I’m going with Iverson, Hamilton, Stuckey, Herrmann and Amir. Why 3 shooting guards a small forward and a power forward? Honestly, I have no clue. You see team, I know that the game of basketball is played with five players playing different positions and each have significant individual roles. But maybe we should do things differently. I mean, this way we should score a lot, right? Sure it leaves Amir to be the only one to defend bigs, defend the interior, set picks, and defensive rebound – but it should work. Plus, I think Walter Herrmann has to be the best guy to guard this LaMarcus Aldridge fellow.”

Timeout with 3 minutes left and the game all but out of reach:

Coach Curry: “Guys you’re playing like crap out there. Herrmann, Aldrige shot right over you. Seriously, grow four inches so you can defend him. Amir, I saw you trying to get a rebound but there were three guys in black shirts trying to get one too. What’s up with that? Can you give a little effort? Well, at least now I can I’m better than Flip because I can play the young players. And you shooting guards why aren’t you scoring? Isn’t that what you’re suppose to be good at? Sure there is no one to pass it to you, and no one for you to outlet to, and no one for you to pass it to down on the block – but you guys are suppose to score.”

People have pointed out that the team is 3-0 when Stuckey starts. Blaha seems to be in love with the guy. He reminds me of Hubie Brown talkin’ about CP3 in last year’s playoffs. Gag. Blaha was throwing out plus minus – but every time Stuckey was on the floor usually so was Affalo as well as other reserves. I will say this – Stuckey plays much much much better when he plays with the starters – that isn’t to say he should start. I think this is because he doesn’t feel the need to be the number one offensive option. Stuckey has an amazing ability to get to the hoop but when he plays with the reserves he usually tries to finish it off on his own, which typically has been ugly this year, real real ugly, but with the starters he passes more frequently. It seems like all Stuckey has to do is get to the hoop for one dunk and all the other errant attempts, all the other forces, all the other drives to the hoops when a Prince or Hermmann is waiting for the dish out but instead Stuckey gets fouled and makes 1 of 2 from the line, are forgiven. The guy, a fifth of the way through the season, is shooting under 40% and leads the teams in turnovers per 48. Making Stuckey a starter would only work because when A.I. plays with the reserves he has been a willful facilitator – Hermmann against the Bucks. Stuckey tries to make too much happen on his own, seems more selfish, forces – but like I said, with the starters plays a more under control version of his game – which then is pretty nice. Thing is Iverson can do everything Stuckey can do but better – he can get dribble penetration whenever he wants, plus he can hit wide open jumpers – Stuckey rarely does. Curry should define Stuckey’s role as an “aggressive point guard” coming off the bench and team would be in better shape.

I thought all 4 bigs played great tonight. Maxiel didn’t even get a shift in the second half. Thing is – they only play well when two of them are out there at the same time. Iverson and Stuckey, as good as getting into the lane as they are, can’t stop other quick guards from doing so and this penetration is setting stuff up for the bigs on these teams. With the guards on opposing teams penetrating like that a big has to move over and after the pass it leaves a horrible mismatch. Two of Maxiel, Brown, Amir or Sheed need to be in the game.

As much as I dislike Stuckey’s game – I do think Stuckey-Afflalo-Herrmann-Maxiel-Amir would beat our current lineup of A.I.-Hamilton-Prince-Sam Perkins-Kwame Brown. I’d be surprise if there is much dispute over that. Main reason – defense, energy and rebounding. If Curry wants to be the coach he said he was going to be he should continue leaving Prince on the bench – as he did nothing when he was in the game to deserve to be played just because he’s Tayshaun Prince. His mistake is he doesn’t play the matchups and the game of basketball is all matchups.

I do have to agree with what is being said about this team really only having two good games. Their recent wins came against a Bucks with Redd and Bogut and Knicks team that is still the Knicks – so it is now a long stretch of very unbalanced basketball. But, I do think the pieces are there if played in their positions and to the matchups.

I think it’s been long enough to just say it.
the AI trade got us playing worse.
When Dyess gets back it might improve us a bit but i think we will lose our swagger and our confidence by that time.
too bad…
and not i’m not being hysterical

On the other side of the trade, Billups has been doing his thing and the Nuggets are tied for 3rd in the west. People questioned whether he could play at Denver’s higher pace, but he’s really had no problems.

I know this team and the coach are still figuring things out, and the trade theoretically gives them a higher ceiling, but early returns haven’t been good.

concerned piston fan here again, looks to me more and more like we are turning into the carbon copy chicago bulls…..cant make a shot if our lives depend, cant make a comeback, cant beat the good teams, losing games on our home floor that we should be winning. I say bring back ma man Flip to coach, give Maxiell more playing team, tell sheed to get his ass underneath and start rebounding and posting up and if he doesnt do it bench him, and give Iverson the green light to score at least 30 points a game like he used to and we will be alright.

I think Stuckey was great yesterday (even though he had 5 TO). I really liked his energy. We were a better team with him running the point (at least yesterday). Plus it was a close game whenever he was on the court. The same can’t be said for A.I. We were down by 10 every time he was running the show.
Tayshaun played only 22 minutes?! I can’t figure this out.

I’m not going to blame Curry, yet. He has a bunch of pieces that don’t go well together. He has a lot of good guards, but none of them are true point guards, much less top-flight point guards. Stuckey is still inexperienced and he’s a “shoot first” kind of guy, and AI isn’t a true point guard either. Curry also has a woeful lack of consistently productive big men. ‘Sheed is ’Sheed, which is mostly very good, except he doesn’t like post offense. No other big on the Pistons has anything like a consistent offense of any kind, and Maxiell and Johnson are both, in different ways, undersized (height and bulk, respectively). Tayshaun is solid but there’s still no consistently good backup for him. Afflalo is tough-minded but undersized at SF and not a great offensive player, Herrmann is very inconsistent.

So Curry goes small a lot because he has more good small players than good big players, but the small players don’t always mesh well together, because they are all jump shooter/sometimes slashers. Which makes it look as if they don’t run plays.

Meanwhile, you can’t play consistently good defense if you are significantly undersized at most positions.

McDyess will help some with the bigs, but Detroit, to have any chance this year at all, will need somebody to play point guard qua point guard, and will also need better production out of some combination of Maxiell/Johnson/Brown.

Marbury will be available soon…

ai is an explosive player. but he must be leading feature. the pistons play team basketball. this seems like a contradiction if one assumes ai must play better part of game. but maybe he would be better to as change of tempo and in twenty minute range. that way he could use his energy in more concentrated bursts as well as not clash with the pass oriented offense. maybe he would be better with the zoo crew who are more wild by nature. let stuckey play with the vets.

Last night’s loss was on Curry. It was 80-82 with 5:51 remaining. Fast forward to 2:28 remaining, and it’s 80-93. Curry had Rip and Tay sitting on the bench like he’s passive-aggressively trying to teach them some kind of lesson and while the team can’t buy a bucket, Amir is fighting for offensive rebounds against three different Blazers – one of which being Greg Oden, who’s kinda sorta big – while Sheed watches from behind the arc.

In our 6 losses, the average margin of victory for the opposing team is 15.3 points. That is not good coaching. I’m not going to go and say fire him or anything, but if he manages to turn Tayshaun “All-American Team Player and Straight A Student (Probably)” Prince sour, then I’ll be ready to call him the Darko of coaching decisions.

Juicebox makes some good points. Writes long posts, but makes some good points.

To throw in my $0.02, I just looked at 82games.com and our five-man floor unit stats- the thing that stood out is that there is not a single line-up combination with AI and Rip together in the backcourt that has a positive plus/minus. The two line-ups that have a positive plus/minus and both AI and Rip on the court at the same time are when we play Stuckey or Afflalo along with them, and shift Tay out of position to PF. These two line-ups have been good so far, but they force us into playing two players out of position- Tay and either Rip or Spellcheck, which I think in the long run will hurt us more than help (wears Tay down, and probably just isn’t a strategy that will work once teams are expecting and game planning for it).

It’s still early in the season, so the players haven’t played enough minutes for plus/minus numbers to be at all conclusive- but I think it’s a good reflection of what all of us are seeing. Basically, at this point Rip and AI haven’t worked as a backcourt- not saying it can’t click later, just that it hasn’t clicked yet.

IMO, the trickle down effect from the problems/poor results of the AI and Rip backcourt is central to why our team has had these crazy swings- because we have had some line-up combinations that have been very effective, but they rarely involve both AI and Rip together. This is a big problem because they both play enough minutes that they are on the court together for long stretches of every game. So watching stones, they have a kinda roulette feel, where our standard line-up: AI+Rip+Tay+Sheed+KB/Amir=? will struggle, but then we sometimes “hit” with some random group that makes game competitive or wins it.

Our best starting line-up, and IMO, steadiest combo so far has been: Stuck+Rip+Tay+Sheed+Amir. Subjectively this line-up has looked better than the others- Stuck and Amir have P&R=$ chemistry, Rip seems more comfortable, Tay doesn’t have to oscillate between PF and point guard, Sheed can comfortably launch bombs knowing Amir is there to board. But, (happy news!) that doesn’t mean I think AI should be outcast, one thing that is clear from plus/minus and subjectively from watching, is AI and Afflallllooo have played well together and seem to compliment each other- getting them minutes on the court together should be a Curry priority.

Generally, speaking of Curry, I would be more comfortable with him if he applied a little more consistency to his own coaching. He definitely seems to be a “ride the hot hand” type of coach, rather than a Flip style “sticking with my big guns” coach. I think holding people accountable for crappy/lazy play is important. I think throwing out the occasional small ball line-up can work. But, more important is knowing what is gonna work/win over the long haul and getting players to buy into that. A lot of the short-term strategies Curry has used seem kinda like “fools gold” to me- does anyone really think we’re gonna win anything with K. Brown starting, or with random tiny ball line-ups that play at a minimum 2 players out of position? If he would do away with the gimmicks and focused on finding combinations that will work over the course of a long season and a long play-off run, then I would be able to shrug off some of these crappy losses. But to compound crappy play from our stars with crappy rotations doesn’t seem like its gonna solve our problems now, or later.

Don’t like what I’m reading about Prince being benched and taken out at points during the game. I didn’t catch it so I don’t know, but Curry mentioned him by name, saying he didn’t play well and the game was lost through the starters. This is a tough time for Detroit.

I’m disappointed in our team so far.

Toledo Joe pegged it. We’re too small, yet the roster really isn’t configured for smallball. Meanwhile the starters are in disarray, which exposes the age of guys like Sheed and Iverson. Nor is Curry doing a great job of helping them. But there’s time to get better, and if it doesn’t happen we’re in position to make moves for the future.

sign Marbury, start him at the point, bring AI off the bench to back up Rip

Bring Stuckey off the bench to back up Marbury

Marbury – Stuckey
Rip – AI
Tay – Goldilicks
Amir – Maxiell – Kwame
Sheed – ’Dyess – Kwame

Talk about depth… since we’re going all in on this season, I’ll push my chips to the middle and sign Marbury if he wants to play in Detroit.

Do you know what this team needs? Horace Jenkins.

It’s really hard for me to feel for any of the players in this whole thing, because Curry was their guy. I eventually got tired of Flip too, but they rode Flip out on a rail, the whole time extolling the virtues of Curry. That people would be held accountable, that we’d be conditioned, that we’d emphasize defense to a greater degree.

There are signs that people are being held accountable (although it’s mystifying to send AI, the biggest defensive liability on our team, back out onto the floor, while letting Tayshaun sit), but Sheed’s legs are already turning to jello less than 20 games into the season, and usually the reserves are the only evidence of that allegedly renewed defensive mindset.

But Tayshaun, if you’re sour, you ASKED for this. All summer, the team was hyped over having a hard-as-nails, no-nonsense coach, and now that you have it, I better not hear any complaining. And if someone wants to bring up the fact that Curry doesn’t seem to grasp what sort of rotation to use, or that he seems like he isn’t some great Xs and Os coach, they ASKED for this. They knew that these warts came on the package.
Regardless, it’s hard call for Curry’s head (which I’ve seen done already) when you’re 16 games into the season and your starting point guard is wrenched from you in return for a pure scorer. Oh by the way, the guy you were going to anchor your second unit with is gone for a month too, so have fun with that.

I’m off the rails at this point too. Doesn’t everyone like it when they dunk? I like it when Amir dunks.

Boney -

Let’s just do it. All-in for Starbury. What the hell?
Who wants to sign the petition?
Remember, we got results before with Boney’s pamphlet to Amir.

We should trade for Chris Andersen too.

And Jamaal Tinsley. I want the single most self-destructive team in the history of the league.

Darius Miles.

How to get fat watching Pistons games.

Go to the kitchen between Amir Johnson touches on offense.

It would be nice if the Pistons could find a way to get Amir more touhes down low.

Yesteday he even showed the ability to get a shot off quickly and effectively down low.

When a quick tall PF is shooting 60% from the field and 80% from free throw line it is in the best interests of his team to get him a decent number of touches when he is on the floor.

Pass him the ball or trade him. I am sure D’Antoni would love to have Amir in his running game.

About Walter Herrmann Curry had this to say yesterday.

"Out of all of his baskets he’s made, he’s created a shot for himself twice the entire year," Curry said. "Most of his shots have been what someone else created for him and he’s a great finisher."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;ylt=Akk3AdshuCfeUPtYvh1eDV580bYF?slug=teamreports-2008-nba-det&prov=sportsxchange&type=teamreport

I’d still say it couldn’t beat Jamaal Tinsley, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Jermaine O’Neal – each in the prime of their insanity.

Glad LanierFan sees what I see. Well, not glad, exactly. . .

I also think Gabe has a good point. Rip and AI don’t seem to mesh well together, for reasons that are arguably kind of obvious. Maybe bringing one or the other off the bench would help; one could be a starter with Stuckey, who is more of a PG than AI is. Then if it’s AI coming off the bench, he could play more with Afflalo, who won’t be competing with AI for shots and the same spaces and paths. Heck, you get McDyess on that second unit and suddenly it could be a more potent offensive second unit than Detroit has had in a long time.

The question is, can you really convince AI, or maybe Rip, to be happy coming off the bench? Could you say, “you will be our Manu Ginobli,” or something like that?

Another random thought. To avoid the “too much small ball” problem, what about trying Maxiell as SF? Especially after McDyess gets back, we’ll have other bodies to play the 4 and 5. Sir Charles was a SF, wasn’t he?

Yeah, that Indiana team was just this side of Jailblazers.

Long time reader, first time commenter…

I don’t know if anyone else has suggested this yet (I haven’t read through all the comments), but I have an idea (not that Curry or Dumars is listening to me) that could work. Bring AI off the bench. If his ego could handle it (and that’s a big “if”), I think this could be dynamic for the Pistons. Think about it.

Rip plays better with Stuckey running the show anyway, and Tay and Sheed could get back to playing a style they’re more accustomed to with Stuck at the helm.

Plus, that would allow Curry to team up AI with some shooters (Hermann, McDyess) and some guys who like to run (Afflalo, Amir). AI could then do what he does best (create shots for himself and others through penetration and generally running around crazy).

AI claims to be willing to do whatever it takes to win a championship…maybe coming off of the bench is that “whatever?” Conventional wisdom says he should go for it, but given that he followed up the whole back and forth between him and Joe D about practice during his initial press conference by actually skipping practice…one never knows with Allen.

Personally though, I think bringing Iverson off the bench could work wonders.

A starting 5 of Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Sheed, and Kwame has to be up there in terms of the top of the league, and a 2nd unit of Iverson, Afflalo, McDyess, Amir, and Hermann is honestly almost as good, and would definitely have to be considered one of the top 2nd units in the NBA.

Now obviously, this isn’t rec ball where you play two separate units in which there is no bleed over between them in terms of personnel, but I think this could work.

Come on Curry, make this happen! Come on Iverson, take it like the team player you claim to be!

http://bloggingformeatballs.com/blog/tag/pistons/

As an add on to my comment above…I forgot to throw Maxiell in the mix (I know, I know, how is that possible?) Sorry, I was writing fast. He needs to play significant minutes for sure, and I think he matches up fine with the starters or the reserves. Other than Dice, Max is our best big off the bench (in my opinion).

defensively, iverson looks like he is on a completely different page than the rest of the pistons. perhaps in denver or philly, the defensive strategy was to funnel the opposing guards to drive inside the foul line (to contend with, for example, Camby) but that is not, and has never been the pistons’ defensive strategy. when one guy is on a completely different page defensively, the team defense falls apart, as it did consistently with ai on the floor yesterday.

maybe ai should PRACTICE to learn the team defense that worked so well for the pistons since 03-04.

btw – bring back big ben!!!

and LB

@Matt Watson

Why so few Pistons analysis since the start of the season? So much happened during and after the game yesterday that I thought there was no way there wouldn’t be something on here about it all. Looking forward to reading something good…

“I think it’s been long enough to just say it.
the AI trade got us playing worse.
When Dyess gets back it might improve us a bit but i think we will lose our swagger and our confidence by that time.
too bad…
and not i’m not being hysterical”

Ohad, them losing a little swagger and confidence might be a good thing if it gets them to play harder.

The bring Ai off the bench because he and Rip don’t mesh idea has been mentioned several times. Bringing him off the bench isn’t going to solve this problem – they both play enough minutes that they have to play together. Changing the lineup solely on that basis seems like it would be running away from the problem rather than game-planning to fix it. In the end, there are other reasons (already mentioned in detail by others) that might make it a good idea to start Stuckey, but if we can’t figure out a way to get Rip and AI playing somewhat efficiently we are fucked. Personally, I think (hope) that a lot of this shit will sort itself out. Everyone talks about sacrificing regular season games to get better, but no one really wants to deal with it.

“Why so few Pistons analysis since the start of the season? So much happened during and after the game yesterday that I thought there was no way there wouldn’t be something on here about it all. "

I, for one, have pledged to wait 20 games until I offer any sort of analysis. I would imagine Matt is going to wait at least that long.

If we win seven of our next eight games, this will be a blip on the radar. If we lose seven, we’ll know we have problems that run deeper than “Rip and AI don’t mesh”.

Aaron,

I completely agree with your reasons for bringing A.I. off the bench. In his first press conference, he said that he will carry any assignment out to the fullest. However, I doubt that that he will be willing to come off the bench. Our second unit would be great if he would accept this role. As another reader mentioned, he could be our Ginobili.

Man, if we took the gamble on Marbury, we would have the greatest NBA Live team ever.

I know this year has sucked so far, but we’re not in too much trouble. The Pistons have started relatively slowly the past years. Here are our records through November:

2007-08: 9-5
2006-07: 10-5
2005-06: 11-2*
2004-05: 7-7

*Started 8-0, finished the month 3-2.

Let’s hope this year doesn’t finish like these did.

As a relatively new member of the By’em bandwagon, I say no Starbury and more Will.

Colin is spot on, wait a little bit and hope its all sweet in a month or two. I refuse to get caught up in the alarm about AI. I was pretty sure we were going to win in Flips first year and the last couple. We were statistically very much contenders. Our chances right now? Slim, but who cares when we are witnessing one of the most interesting regular seasons from this team in a long time. I must admit that the potential of AI, especially for the playoffs in a best of seven, is/could be what we need to get over the hump. This team will not suck and will get to the playoffs and cause problems. Thats all I ask for. Seems more interesting than losing to Cleveland/Boston in the CF.

Marbury averaged like 20 and 9 in ’03-04. Assuming he would average 20 and 9 this year, I conclude we would be better off signing him.

@TDP – “let’s hope this year doesn’t turn out like ’05?” You wouldn’t be happy winning the East and taking the Lakers or Spurs to 7? I would be ecstatic…

Also, can I make one request of the media? Can we agree to only use the post-Billups record, as opposed to the with-Iverson number? This early in the season, those two wins meaningfully change the win percentage since the trade. And clearly those two games are reflective of the team’s performance without our OMG leader/true pg/messiah. Leaving them out is just a convenient way to leave out two solid road victories from the sample. Unless you think Iverson actively makes our team worse…which I would argue is a silly assertion…

Dear Amir:

Please put this video on continuous loop and watch it over and over again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKz8ACUAApQ&feature=rec-HM-rn

Your pals,

Garrett & Boney

First off, like twenty posts up there is a quote from Curry saying that all but two of Herrmann’s baskets have been setup by someone else. That really seems off to me. He’s had quite a few hoops this year where he slashes to the rim or where he gets into the middle of the lane and does his little one handed thing he does. I’ll check his assist % but all but two would put him in the high 90’s and I would guess he’d be at least in the 80’s. I just think that’s a really weird thing to say, as it kind of comes off as an insult (at least how I took it).

Even though I do think the team with Iverson off the bench could be better I don’t like it because it’s almost suggesting that Stuckey is playing better. He’s not. No relevant Piston has a worse +/-, shooting percentage or turnover rate. Someone said Stuckey is in the best statistical 5 man unit, but in actuality there is another equal line that he’s not in and Iverson (and Hamilton) is. I’ve already said Stuckey plays better with the starters because he plays more calm and composed while Iverson seems the more willing to be a passer and facilitator to the reserves. Fact is, Afflao and Herrmann are hitting shots. In fact, Afflalo, Herrmann, Maxiel and Amir all are shooting over 50% on the season. Rip Hamilton just a hair over 40%. Rip under 37% on jumpers. Even more, Rasheed Wallace is shooting 38% inside. That’s awful for a starting PF. So, the starters problems aren’t rooted in Stuckey vs. Iverson. The starting 5’s best interior scorer (statistically this season) is Kwame Brown. And their supposed best shooter, Rip, is shooting under 37%. The guys off the bench are shooting the ball better and the bigs are active on the glass so Iverson appears to be better with them because he know how to utilize jump shooters and big men better than Stuckey does. Stuckey tries to take over the game when he’s with the reserves and that gives the false allusion that we’d be better off with the PG’s switching roles. I think that’s hard grounds to justify a demotion for one and promotion for the other.

When Rip gets his shot going, Tayshaun goes back to being assertive, and Sam Perkins becomes Rasheed Wallace this team will be fine – we might be fine even if he stays Sam Perkins. Everyone needs to stop telling Tayshaun Prince he’s an all star – I liked him better before the false sense of entitlement.

Waiting 20 games to begin analysis is a little much. Playoff seeding and home court advantage do matter and so these losses will have an effect on this team – a team that still has a legit shot at competing, give things come together, which I believe they will. It’s like the Lions waiting till they were 0-4 to declare they have problems. We knew they were bad when they were 0-2, and 0-3, there’s no need to wait till 0-4 to say what is already obvious. Not comparing them to the Lions. Probably the Colts – a team with the talent to blowout the Ravens, barely beat the Texans and Browns, and get blownout by the Packers. Well, except, we traded Peyton Manning for Michael Vick.

Dear Pistons,

Do not be discouraged. You can do it!

Love,
Rob G

Dear Rob G,

Your out of control.

@Juicebox – I agree with pretty much everything you just said. To clarify the 5 man unit thing, I didn’t say it very well up above, but what I meant was the Stuckey line-up had the best plus/minus of the various starting line-up combo’s, not best overall plus/minus. Also, the line-up with AI and Rip that has done really well is the one with those two and Aphlallow+Tay+Perkins- basically its a small ball line-up that plays 2 (or 3 if you count roscoe at C) guys out of position, so playing that combo frequently comes with some significant risks/possible downsides: wear+tear on Tay+Sheed, among other things.

Not to keep harping on AI and Rip, but IMO it is pretty inter-connected with other issues. Throughout their careers they have been scorers- that is the main thing they bring to the NBA table, if they aren’t scoring than they lose a sizable chunk of what makes them above average NBA players. They are also fairly unique scorers, and have had played in offensives designed to use their unique strengths- the problem is an offensive designed for AI doesn’t really suit Rip, and vice versa. It’s weird, but looking at their nba.com/hotspots pages from last year, their end results don’t seem that dissimilar, it’s just how they got there- AI got way more high % close shots in the paint, but Rip (on less attempts) was a slightly better finisher and shot a higher % from mid-range and from deep.

I don’t want to get too subjective, but it’s seemed to me like they’ve let their struggles on offense bleed into how they play defense- there have been stretches where it’s jarring how easily we let teams dribble drive on us. I don’t think it’s AI’s fault or he needs a demotion and Stuckey has not played well enough this season to clearly deserve to start, but I also don’t necessarily think because AI is generally a better player than Stuckey that he has to start games.
Could something like this be the case with our starting back court:
All-Star SG + All-Star SG < [very]Inconsistent 2nd year PG + All-Star SG?

Anyway, hopefully it works itself out. If nothing else the trade has made this season almost completely unpredictable- I could see us going .500 the rest of the way or having things click and going on a roll.

And to take a mini-shot at Curry on my way out the door- I guess I don’t see why its been kosher to jerk around guys in the front court (Amir+Max+Fabio, somewhat less Tay+Kwame) in such haphazard fashion, but our back court, which has been far crappier, in comparison has been treated with kid gloves. Might just be my impression, but it’s struck me as weird.

Gabe-I do think the team would be better with Stuckey starting, but because Stuckey is so extremely inconsistent, and also because the move would seem to blame Iverson for the team’s struggles (when he shouldn’t be) I think it would be a hard sell for him. I can’t imagine Manu Ginobli being an appealing carrot to dangle in front of the one of the best scorers of all time. Ideally, I think Stuckey should start and play a shift to about 3:00 left in the first and during that stretch Rip and Rasheed should be the focal point of the offense (Prince and Kwame the other two starters). Then I like switching to the Iverson-AA-Herrmann-Maxiel-McDyess – where the offense would be tailored around Iverson – he’d have lots of outlets on different spots on the floor. Then shift to an Iverson-Hamilton-Prince-Rasheed-Amir to finish the half – where Prince is the main focal point of the offense. This way Stuckey starts but Iverson gets the bulk of the minutes.

Of course that over simplifies things to the extreme, fouls would come into consideration and Stuckey could gain enough consistency where he should reenter the game before the half. But Hamilton needs an offense set up around his skill set in order to utilize his skills. Iverson requires the same freedom and accommodation. And it seems like for Prince to be effective he needs to be told that it his “his time to take over.” With that setup of substitutions the team would be able to do that effectively. Because Hamilton, Iverson and Prince are so good when the offense is setup for them I think the Pistons could be that systematic about it.

I also agree with the kid gloves on the backcourt comment. I pointed out a couple weeks ago that Amir lost his starting job, went a stretch without playing, when really the main person on the team struggling had been Hamilton, and as of recent, Prince.

Maybe Curry thought up his wild substitution tactics after chatting with one of basketball’s greatest coaches.

“Failure is good. It’s fertilizer. Everything I’ve learned about coaching, I’ve learned from making mistakes.” – Rick Pitino

Rick Pitino traded away Chauncey midway through midway through his first season and ended up failing as a coach. By failing, he learned he just wasn’t a good pro coach and went back to where he came from. Michael Curry also had a hand in trading away Chauncey during his first season.. So far failure…

@Restructer_It:
Are you serious? Honestly? You’re going there after 16 games? With a 10-6 record?

Backing up, I don’t mean to single you out. There’s plenty of tears shed for Michael Curry’s coaching in this thread. I’m just surprised to see so many tears before our team even sinks below .500.

Don’t get me wrong, if we sink below that number I’ll be joining the chorus. Until then, these early knocks on Curry and how he manages a starting 5 with 2 new faces— are hi-larious.

In order for allen iverson or any great scorer for that matter to be effective they have to take shots. since he has been in Detroit they have limited him to taking around 10 shots a game. that is completely ludacris. he cant get into any kind of rythem taking that many shots. he needs to be given the green light to shoot 20+ shots a game. If they allow him to do that he will transform back to the prolific scorer he has been throughout his entire career, and will be extremely effective. i dont think he is holding the pistons back, i think they are holding him back.

@MP

Not serious. I actually still have complete faith in Curry and this team to find their identity. But when I found the quote and the connection I just couldn’t not share it.

Forty, you’d be “ecstatic” if we lost the Finals? I think I’d be pretty bummed.