Iverson’s debut, and putting the trade in context
by Kevin Sawyer on Nov 7, 2008 4:25 PM CST
335 comments
The Pistons are in New Jersey tonight, and it's supposed to be a big deal. Who knew everyone would get so excited about Jarvis Hayes vs. Walter Herrmann? ((Yes, I stole that joke )) Oh, yeah, that Allen Iverson guy is playing, too. As a prologue to tonight's game, I'm turning to kevin s. to add a bit of historical context. -- MW
_________
By Kevin Sawyer
My father loved him some Adrian Dantley. He would teach me Dantley-style post-up moves in our driveway. He was the original stutter-stepper. When my dad went into the hospital for surgery, I visited my brother at Oakland University. The Pistons happened to be practicing, and I worked hard to get the grizzled Dantley’s autograph.
And what was not to like? He was slow, methodical, and deadly. When he scored his 20,000th point against against Portland, I asked my dad why we didn’t do that play on every possession. He nearly killed himself (Dantley, not my dad) in a head to head collision with Vinnie Johnson in the Eastern Conference Championship against the Boston Celtics. If anyone earned a championship as a Piston, it was Adrian.
No dice.
During the Pistons’ first championship season, Adrian Dantley was traded for Mark Aguirre, the high scoring wing from the Dallas Mavericks. Aguirre wasn’t a conventional Piston. He had averaged 26 and 6 his prior year on a strong squad that was not about to compete against a Laker Dynasty. He was the prototypical high-scorer on an okay team (that would be lottery bound without him). A high-flyer and all that.
Many wondered how he would fit into a tightly wound Piston offense. He only grabbed eight points and five rebounds in his first game against a mediocre west coast team, but a late drive to the basket, which rolled around the rim on its way down, signaled a new style of Pistons basketball. We lost in Overtime, snapping a seven-game win streak (one without Dantley), and Aguirre fouled out. But something felt different.
Of course, you know the rest. We went on to win the championship. Poor Adrian Dantley was helpless to resurrect a squad ravaged by the Roy Tarpley era, and Mark Aguirre became the Taco Bell Unsung Hero of our back-to-back championship runs.
My dad noted that what the Pistons needed was freedom from Dantley’s slow-down style. Quite the Monday morning quarterback, him. All of which is to say, while my analytical side shudders at such a wild trade, the sports fan part of me is excited to see what the rest of this season brings.
That said, I expect more than 8 and 5 from AI against THIS mediocre team.
_________
Well said. The game starts at 7:30 on FSN, and if you're up for a marathon, switch over to ESPN after the final whistle to catch Chauncey Billups' debut with the Nuggets at 10:30. And, of course, share your thoughts in the comments.
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Since it’s the first question everyone asks lately, let me point out that if you don’t live in the Detroit area, you can watch the game online for free by signing up for the NBA League Pass Broadband free trial, which lasts through Nov. 11.
by Matt Watson on Nov 7, 2008 4:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like the parallels between the two teams there Kevin S.
We lost the 1st game with Aguirre and we lost the 1st game with Sheed and won championships both years…Go Nets?!?
by Jim on Nov 7, 2008 4:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oh man, I’m headed off to the bar to watch this one.
If the Nets win, this board riots.
by Keegan on Nov 7, 2008 5:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
anybody know of a live feed online for the game?
by Joel on Nov 7, 2008 5:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
didn’t see the post on top, but the questions remains… I can’t get League Pass broadband to work on my computer…
by Joel on Nov 7, 2008 5:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That’s a good story for those of us old enough to remember the significance of the Dantley-Aguirre trade. I tend to shy away from historical comparisons, but this seems somewhat apt.
That said, I expect the Pistons to win by 30 tonight.
by Bryan on Nov 7, 2008 5:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
or use it all year if you have league pass. it’s actually a nice looking interface. i don’t know how smooth the streaming is.
i loved dantley. that deal was hard to stomach because those pistons were right on the precipice of greatness and it felt like they left a man behind. i wish they had shipped a.d. an honorary ring in ‘89. this feels different because we won with chauncey and then have endured almost-ran status for the past few years with him. everyone knew we needed a change. i’m not sure many people think we wouldn’t have won back-to-backs if we had kept dantley. maybe mark aguirre and kevin’s dad?
saw dantley at the clips-nugs game the other night since he’s manning the bench for the nugs. i still had the urge to go to him and apologize for the trade, 20 years later. but i’m pretty sure he’s heard that before. and who knows if that disappointment still lingers, 20 years later.
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 5:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
does anyone know any other online feeds besides the league pass trial, it didn’t work for me. i live in sydney and when i tried to sign up, it said: “We’re sorry, but the the product or page you have requested is not available in your region, or your region could not be determined at this time.”
anyone? help? thanks in advance.
by Detroitblue on Nov 7, 2008 5:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
To me? This is the first game of the season. I’m thrilled w/ this move and think it’s going to pay off big. Can’t wait for the tip.
by mwhyte72 on Nov 7, 2008 6:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Imagine if you had a company stock plan that was about to vest, contingent on your employment. Then you get fired and your company gets lbo’d a year later, and your unvested options would have been worth a mill. I’m sure he’s still pissed.
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 6:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Off topic, but does anyone know when the 30 countdown on Dyess starts? Is it from the day the trade was completed, or the day he’s waived?
by Gogol on Nov 7, 2008 6:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Have been wondering that myself, Gogol…I would guess from day of trade consummation (i.e. yesterday) – would think the point is just to make sure they aren’t playing for Team A a day later, not to make sure they don’t play for Team B for a few months, get bought out, and then immediately return to Team A.
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 6:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Reason #247 to buy League Pass: announcers for bad expansion teams. The Bobcats announcers after a Felton and 1 against the Hornets: “it’s going to be a battle between Ray and Chris Paul all night. Whoever gets in the paint more is going to win the game.”
Isn’t that like if Georgia had said this summer, “you know, it’s going to be a tough war between us and Russia. Whoever has the bigger bombs is probably going to come away with the w.”
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 6:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i love that bobcats announcing team. actually, nix that. i think that stephanie ready chick on the sideline is hot. that’s what i mean by “i love that bobcats announcing team.”
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 6:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
thgat site just changed it to the detroit feed with blaha and special k.
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 6:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Enough with these commercials man I need this game to start lol
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 6:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
JackDutch… Thank you for the link!! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
by Brad on Nov 7, 2008 6:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
jack, joe tv is showing nothing.. or is it just me?
by Detroitblue on Nov 7, 2008 6:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Iverson looks like he knows what he’s doing.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 6:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
that’s a nice start for AI..let’s keep it up
by Primosh on Nov 7, 2008 6:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
jeebus i’m only getting audio.. arrrgh.
by Detroitblue on Nov 7, 2008 6:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well the offense sets are certainly….different
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 6:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Iverson is having an adverse effect on Prince’s passing ability.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 6:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That was a great steal by Devin Harris on AI
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 6:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The three-guard look. Interested to see how this goes.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 6:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
justin.tv freezes like every minute too…damn it
by Primosh on Nov 7, 2008 6:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
At this rate, Iverson finishes with 35-10 and Amir threatens the NBA record for rebounds.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 6:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
dblue, check again. i just took a peek and it looks like it’s going.
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 7:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That one dude on the Nets team’s head looks like a bullet. Weird.
by Mike Payne on Nov 7, 2008 7:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow… This is a cray lineup. Do they still do free pizza at the Palace?
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Anyone have League Pass hang at 98%? And get it fixed?
by b23 on Nov 7, 2008 7:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kwame needs to pick another number than #31
too much like Darko …. :-\
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
lol@ Sheed
“Come on Leon help him out now”
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 7:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i don’t want to get too high from this early going. this nets roster is not looking good.
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 7:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
help em out now Leon help em out
god I love Sheed
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sauce is really disappointed in this first quarter effort from the Pistons.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Over or under on AI dropping 40 tonight?
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 7:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@ Jackdutch
Well the real test is Sunday
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 7:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t like how the refs don’t call fouls on DWade for the same shit his defender gets fouls called on him for…
he reaches and pokes and hacks… no calls
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Prince is totally fresh for the 2nd quarter, Maxiell has yet to play. We are freaking loaded on this roster.
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 7:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sauce is mad that Amir Johnson is starting over Dale Davis and Nazr Mohammed.
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Iverson finds new and creative ways to put his mouthgaurd anywhere but in his mouth. Under the headband?
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 7:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Allen Iverson is having an adverse effect on Prince’s free throw shooting.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Allen Iverson is having an adverse effect on our veterans’ ability to hit a mid-range jump shot while he is out of the lineup.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
2 dribbles and a hook?
I like what Kwame Kilpatrick brings to our postgame
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kwame, if you could just do that little backdown jump hook consistently, you’d make 3x your current salary. Just sayin.
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 7:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hollywood Cake (obscoure Lakers joke) with the nice hook!
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 7:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Allen Iverson is helping Kwame Brown’s offensive game from afar.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The NBA, where the same commercial, over and over, happens.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Me likey what I see, me likey crazy basketball shots that go in
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 7:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
lol, the nets announcer just did a “rehearsal” spoof on the “practice” rant
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 7:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Maxiell to Harris, if you ever do have a baby, I’ll go Planned Parenthood on that bitch.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Devin Harris already took Rip’s head off – he’s gonna get killed if he keeps this up
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 7:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think this is the first time this season where the refs have meaningfully given us an advantage – I thought we got squeezed in a couple of the others
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 7:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Do superstar players get preferential treatment by refs? If so, we should get a superstar for our team.
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 7:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I’m glad that NBA’s free league pass fucking works… stuck on 98%
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Josh Boone needs to lose the cornrows…
looks like he should be playing WNBA
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You and me both, Boney.
They’re not doing a good job convincing me to buy after the free trial…
by b23 on Nov 7, 2008 7:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
but at least justintv let me see that ankle breaker
by b23 on Nov 7, 2008 7:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
:( at Chauncey and his short in that commerical
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 7:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
“They’re not doing a good job convincing me to buy after the free trial…”
Check to see if you are up to date on flash-player and its myriad add-ons.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It’s interesting how video streams never freeze during the commercials…
by Primosh on Nov 7, 2008 7:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Michael Curry has the most basic looking suits
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
“It’s interesting how video streams never freeze during the commercials…”
For NBA TV, I don’t think its streaming.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 7:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The YES Sports anchor just said: “I can’t use the word ‘baby’ in referring to Jason Maxiell.”
You have no idea, sir.
by Mike Payne on Nov 7, 2008 7:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Who the hell on the marketing team came up with Fiverson?
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 7:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
up to date, reinstalled, tried IE and Firefox, tried clearing the cache, etc etc.
waiting to hear from NBA LP folks.
by b23 on Nov 7, 2008 7:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah dont forget defense Phoenix East….
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 7:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you should tell the NBA folks that justintv.com’s picture is more reliable
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
“For NBA TV, I don’t think its streaming.”
Yeah..I had justintv in mind and other similar sites. NBA tv doesn’t work in my country
by Primosh on Nov 7, 2008 7:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We allowed 39…the reason the differential isn’t bigger is b/c we missed some open shots and took some other bad shots (i’m looking at you tayshaun).
Also, we gave the second fewest minutes to the guy with the most rebounds – that seems like a poor strategy.
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 7:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We’re winning after shootin 35%, I’ll take it
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 7:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wish Curry didn’t believe so much in the “Amir in small doses” technique.
by Gogol on Nov 7, 2008 7:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Seems like they’re just clogging up the middle. The Pistons are getting open shots, but they can’t knock them down.
by Michael on Nov 7, 2008 7:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ugh, 35%? that puts the score into perspective…
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 7:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Somebody should also tell AI that the whole reason we got him was so he could use his driving ability to prevent our droughts. Come on, dude, don’t be TOO unselfish.
by Gogol on Nov 7, 2008 7:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Two things..
I like AI already especially his ability to run inside and end up at the line every time.
Stop shooting threes already! I know they are giving them to us but when we don’t make them they just run it out for a dunk. 3’s are great just not as a main course. Where is Sheed down low? What about driving the ball inside? I only wish we had a couple of guards that could do that…
by Tim on Nov 7, 2008 7:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
AI could not score another point, just knowing that some guy listening to loud rap music is putting that clip of him crossing up Najera into a mixtape that will likely be on YouTube tomorrow is all I need from him
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Boney, do you have a camera in my office or something?
by Mike Payne on Nov 7, 2008 7:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rob G,
One question, why do you hate to do that?
Another thing, I think that was my first “+1” in a long time. I haven’t had a +1 since long before LawyerBoy came out from under his bridge to ask 3 riddles this last time…
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 7:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take a superstar call going Detroit’s way now with AI on the team…
I’ll never complain about AI flopping again
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Now Tay has to use the other side of his mouth to talk
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gotta stop blowing these big leads
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Boney, I don’t know why, maybe cuz you don’t draw the +1s (like you point out), but you deserve every bit of that one
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@Rob G:
“Now Tay has to use the other side of his mouth to talk”
+1
by Mike Payne on Nov 7, 2008 8:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Tay with the long gun…
after AI took 3 steps
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whoever mentioned the superstar fouls going our way? Yeah, it doesn’t suck. 4 on carter.
by Mike Payne on Nov 7, 2008 8:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I used to think Chauncey was the master at drawing fouls … AI is a freaking magician.
by Adam on Nov 7, 2008 8:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You know not for nothing but Chauncey used to the same thing. We got a lotta calls our way last season. Just saying…
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rasheed got T’d, so now we’re gonna dominate
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Too wreckless and losing at there own game.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow. If I were Sheed I’d be pissed too….he gets a clean block called a foul on one end, and then an anal pillage courtesy of Boone not called on the other!
by Mark B. on Nov 7, 2008 8:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Tayshaun should shoot a free throw like one of his little hooks. That was from pretty far out right there.
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 8:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sheed is loud and obnoxious, but he’s usually right.
by Michael on Nov 7, 2008 8:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Does this game look so weird because it’s the first time we’ve played against a zone this year? It just doesn’t seem right.
by Restructer_It on Nov 7, 2008 8:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hate to say it but as much as I love Ai and the team’s aggressivness, they are just being wreckless too. I guess they can work through early this season but this kinda play doesnt get us over the hump. It only buries us, cause right now? No chance in hell we beat Boston or Cleveland.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I just tuned in and it looks like pick-up ball, but I’m guessing that’s because AI doesn’t really know many offensive sets yet.
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 8:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
spellcheck! hope he doesn’t get lost in the shuffle….
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 8:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeah prophecy, after game 1 we’re not going to make it out of the 1st round of the playoffs
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Argh. I hate seeing guys clutching their ankles and writhing in pain. I’ve had enough of those that I can’t even look at the replays.
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 8:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
oh and…
you don’t hate to say it, you say the same crap all the time.
according to you, we should probably fire Michael Curry too… why? because in 4 games, it’s obvious he’s not getting through to the players
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
“It only buries us, cause right now? No chance in hell we beat Boston or Cleveland.”
Well, that’s what the next 80+ games are for.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 8:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We’ve let the Nets score 30+ this quarter, not good
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, Jarvis fouled somebody instead of playing D, go figure
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We’re just getting obliterated by Harris…no one can stay in front of him
They are conceding a lot of open shots on the perimeter, and we’re playing into their hands by driving into a crowd. We need to put two of our best three point shooters on the perimeter, drive and immediately kick, and keep jacking them. We’re shooting 43% – just haven’t taken enough in the second half (only two i think).
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 8:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Lol Sheed: “GIVE HIM A TECH, GIVE HIM A TECH!”
by Mark B. on Nov 7, 2008 8:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you know
perhaps I dont give Rip enough credit (understatement of the year, I know) but I don’t really see anyone who strikes fear into a defense from 3 point land..
there is no like, specialist on the team from the long gun
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Detroit, where stepping on the line happens.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 8:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If Herrmann or Stuckey were hitting their shots, this would be a very different game. Bad shooting nights happen.
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@Boney: we should make a play at this Jarvis guy. I hear he’s a three-point specialist
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
it’s a shame that this team is so deep, I’d really like to see what Afflalo can do
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Boney, I love the fact you think we’ll meet Boston or Cleveland in the 1st round. I agree 7th or 8th seed forus this year. Mau Mau.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
based on the increased scoring by quarter, the nets are due to put up 45 points in the 4th.
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 8:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@Boney – I wouldn’t want to leave Rip or Herrmann if I’m the Nets…
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 8:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t like Jarvis now… he’s been hanging out with Vince too long
he’s more concerned about his accessories (knee socks and wrist bands) than defense or non-forced jumpshots
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
STOP PLAYING DEFENSE ON YOUR FUCKING HEELS
BALLS OF YOUR FEET, DONT GET FLAT
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Eli sounds a lot like Casey Kasemm
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow@ the Heat leading the Spurs by 20
/thread jacked
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
lol….Jay doesnt care about his team. lol
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This just in from the HTML feed:
9:41 NJ – J. Hayes misses a layup
Go figure
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Too bad Stuckey doesn’t get the same calls Devin Harris gets.
by Michael on Nov 7, 2008 8:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Has Curry called a timeout in this game?
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you know
even though the main pieces are still kind of there…
this team looks different with Kwame, AI, Stuckey… I mean, jesus this is like bizarro world
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is AI’s chance. No one is scoring. He can take over right now and not be considered selfish. He should just do this
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why are we allowing JOSH FUCKIN BOONE to do this?
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
we shouldn’t be beat by the crap lineup the nets rolled out onto the floor. this is just stupid.
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 8:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Someone needs to kick Boone’s ass because he’s kicking ours
by Primosh on Nov 7, 2008 8:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How do you call a team that can’t hit wide open outside shots Phoenix East?
by Michael on Nov 7, 2008 8:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I know it just a regular season game but this was a give me. Ugh at allowing so much offense and blowing that big of a lead. Well at least people cant call us boring anymore.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
For what it’s worth, I think Iverson has gotten more cheap calls than Harris. Our smalls can’t keep Harris in front – when that happens you’re going to draw fouls…
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 8:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@ Micheal
Because Im putting emphasis on the EAST part.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you know, I am worried that Dyess won’t come back
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Alright, this is what we got AI for, yah? Greenlight, little dude. Show us how you won those scoring titles.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 8:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oh my fucking god, how is that not a foul on Harris?
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
first post back on the board since the end of last season.. though I’ve been reading most of the off time and start of this season.
truly sad to see chaunce and dice outta here – like everyones been saying its a forced breakup! feel bad dice never got a ring here and unlikely that he will.
not sure how i feel about AI – just a bit numb or ambivalent – the idea of having a ‘superstar’ kind of turns me off, like someone who is going to ALWAYS be the stones ‘player of the game’..
anyways, good to be back, hey to q-dog, joejoejoe, and other stones! the january game with the blazers here in town???
by piñon lopez on Nov 7, 2008 8:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
goodnight Yi
Stuckey starting to get some calls
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Funny comment on the chat on that JustinTV site: “M. Curry exists only to watch the game.” For some reason a bunch of the chatters don’t like him very much.
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 8:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I guess Michael Curry doesn’t like to call timeouts?
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you know…
I gave Jarvis a chance last season…
his jumpshot needs a lot of work, that arc on his shot brings the rain when it comes back down and clanks on that rim…
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@ Garrett
lol I caught that too. Its true as well
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Now AI gets a call similar to what Harris has been getting. Drive, bump, foul. But it should be the same call when you replace him with Rip, Stuckey, or AA too.
by Michael on Nov 7, 2008 8:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
it’s the friggin’ old-timers killing us tonight…sheed, rip and tay. combined 14 of 41 tonight. i’m too pissed to do the math, but that’s horrendous.
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 8:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whatsup Pinon!
I’ve got tickets to the January game in Portland, already, because it’s going to be my birthday celebration. Get some tix and we’ll make a day of it.
by PDXPistonsFan on Nov 7, 2008 8:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This team doesnt care about D anymore
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 8:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just for tonight, I hope Denver doesn’t win
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 8:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
prophecy,
Shut the fuck up.
Kind regards,
The entire DBB community
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Guess 82-0 ain’t happening again this year. Oh well, I’ll tune in again at the beginning of the 09-10 campaign.
by PDXPistonsFan on Nov 7, 2008 8:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Who is this “Devon Harris” character, and why is he lighting us up? I thought we had a fast PG?
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 8:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
PS.
You obviously didn’t see the foot he stepped on as Harris made his drive, which caused him to fall.
by Boney on Nov 7, 2008 8:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Somebody needed to give Harris a much harder foul earlier on, esp. given that he doled out two doozies to Rip and Tay. Can’t let a guy embarrass your d like that.
And after he draws like 10 fouls going straight by people, at what point do you play 4 feet off him and say “shoot it?”
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 9:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wait, my feed went crazy. Did the Nets get the basket and two shots?
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 9:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
we just gave up 100 points to the bottom-dwelling nets. we just let devin harris drop 30+ points on us. we have boston on sunday. guess we’ll get to see how good mike curry is at game preparation to get this turned around inside of 48 hours.
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 9:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Meh…whatever we were bound lose some adjusting the chemisty. Just hate the fact we blew a substantial lead. Not Iverson’s fault at all.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
“And after he draws like 10 fouls going straight by people, at what point do you play 4 feet off him and say "shoot it?"”
At the same point you say, “I’ve got a big man behind me”.
This tiny lineup think is not a permanent solution.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 9:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Can you believe Mark Cuban gave them Harris for Kidd – what a joke
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 9:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@Boney
Go play in traffic, it’ll be a less gruesome site than us in May.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We had a bunch of good, open looks and just could not hit them. It happens.
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 9:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I’d say I saw this performance from Devon Harris coming because I drafted him very highly in the DBB fantasy league but since I’ve spent the last week trying unsuccessfully to give him away in a trade that would kind of be BS. I guess not sending the opposing PG to the line 1..2..3..TWENTY THREE times will be something to work on in practice. Make the guy hit a field goal. Jeepers.
After tonight add Lawrence Frank to the list of coaches who can dunk. He’ll be sky high.
by joejoejoe on Nov 7, 2008 9:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That, and we did not REBOUND THE GOD DAMNED BASKETBALL. Boney, my apologies, I see why you used the caps
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 9:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kevin – I hear you. And I thought the backside rotations were awful the whole game. But even if you have the best help in the world, you can’t have a guy destroy your perimeter defenders like that and expect to win. Harris looked like CP3 today…he’s not.
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 9:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s probably overreacting to chalk this up to anything other than cold shooting plus a hot Devin Harris. Push either one of those towards the average a little bit and we win this game.
by Michael on Nov 7, 2008 9:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t mind us having an occasional bad shooting night(37%), but letting the Nets drop 64 in the second half? WTF? Did Coach Curry leave our defense at the airport in Charlotte?
by DJ on Nov 7, 2008 9:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not for nothing but Devin Harris is an all-star calliber player.Its not like Darko had a career night on us.
Thing that concerns me early this season is the defense the last few games. Its great we’re running out and there and the whole team is being used but thats never really been our identity and Im not sure if in the long run it means title or anything. I wonder how Joe feels about the fact that this team is transistioning to a run and gun team and as a consequence there is not as much an emphasis on D.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, hes not all-star yet but he played like one at times in Dallas. Im willing to bet he gets in this year.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Also, Harris had 2 assists – at what point do you trap the pick and roll? I think switching it when Sheed is involved was ruled out as the answer.
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 9:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
prophecy_projectz: At some point, though, you have to play to your personnel, not try to pigeon-hole them into something they’re not. We’ve got runners – AI, Rip, Amir, Max, Stuckey. If we can somehow combine some of their high-octane-ness with some of our old fashioned D (Sheed, Max can D it up, Amir can learn) we should hopefully find a nice balance. Having Dyess back might help a bit, too.
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 9:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We scored 96 on 37% shooting, That’s not bad, I just can’t get over the lack of defense in the second half.
by DJ on Nov 7, 2008 9:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Our defense drops off without Billups. He was one of the best at the position. I’m excited to see what Iverson brings, but there is no escaping that fact.
But yeah, This was a team thrown together at the last minute. It will take 20 games to figure out where we were at.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 9:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Garrett: Im all for playing the whole squad. It has to be done. But what Im saying is the first few games of this season have shown a team that really isnt settling into there defense and although its great they run,I dont if it matters as much as the D. There more fun to watch but I wonder if Joe D likes it. Maybe he does, maybe he doesnt,
In an ideal world you could do both but its a big transistion and it may take time without a familar anchor on the floor.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kevin – is Billups the solution to dribble penetration? I don’t think of him as a ball hawk (see: Rondo, Rajon eating him alive)
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 9:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@ Kevin S.
Not for nothing, but the D has dropped off year by year even with Chauncey. I dont want people this transistion is because the trade, its slowly happened since the post LB years.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We were better from three-point range than two-point range. That’s weird.
by kevin s. on Nov 7, 2008 9:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
prophecy_projectz: Yeah, I agree that it will take time to figure out their new identity, but I’m still excited to see what these guys can do.
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 9:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Devon Harris has as bizarre a stat line as you will ever see. 38 points but no three pointers as a PG? T One turnover and 2 assists. 24 FT attempts. And it’s not like the Pistons didn’t have a small enough lineup to play an honest double against Harris to get the ball out of his hands so the Ghost of Vince Carter could beat us. Weird game.
Oh well. I’m just glad J-Kidd is having a good year so far or Mavs fans would be committing ritual seppuku right now.
by joejoejoe on Nov 7, 2008 9:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Garrett: No question (pun intended…cause we have the Answer get it? Right? hears crickets nevermind) I agree, we had our run and at least we’ll be fun to watch even if we have VERY messy games like this.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
24 points for Iverson so there isn’t anything wrong with him as a Piston. I say he’s fitting right in. We lost because the backup guys scored less than 10 points……..combined. My god. Maxiell got nothing tonight? I think it was a learning experience/experiment for this game. It’s kinda making me feeling alot more nervous this Sunday when they takes on the Celtics. I’m going to say that we’re fucked if the backup don’t score more than 10 points combined.
by HB on Nov 7, 2008 9:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
HB: I don’t see our bench sucking that much too often. It happens.
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 9:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Pistons’ D didn’t just drop off this year, it fell off a cliff. Even in the game against Charlotte, they had 30 something freebies. I expect the team to bounce back on D, but it’s been a disturbing trend so far.
The team was winning with really good offense. Before tonight, that is.
by Paul M on Nov 7, 2008 9:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I havent checked the stat line for the game yet but I couldnt help but feel like Maxiell deserved more playing time. It felt like he and Kwame had the same amount.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rob G, it was a very strange game to listen to. I couldn’t get in on the free NBA broadband during the game tonight. I can now but I am debating on if I should watch it even if it is Iverson’s first game as a Piston. But the game is like watching Titanic. Why bother when you know there is a disaster waiting at the end eh?
by HB on Nov 7, 2008 9:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
In some ways this game shows the law of averages playing out. The Pistons don’t win in Toronto without Tayshaun going bananas and they don’t lose tonight if he has an average game. Tayshaun isn’t going to be the 3rd leading scorer in the NBA on 75% shooting over 82 games so it’s back to earth we come for Detroit Basketball.
by joejoejoe on Nov 7, 2008 9:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
HB:
Watching the game I can tell what sunk the team was the same problem like the old days: Too many bad jumpshot selections and not getting back on D. If anything Iverson and the guys who did penetrate the lane kept us in the game.Normally in games like this where the opposition made a comeback Chauncey would calm things down to set the plays on offense right but thats not there anymore. I would hope the guys adapt it when needed like it in the 2nd qtr.
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Iverson once again was a liability because he is so small. He doesn’t play well against big teams that play zone.
by Restructer_It on Nov 7, 2008 9:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
mcdyess has been bought out according to espn… watching the denver game
was working so missed the nets game, but yea… a loss eh? great way to start off the iverson era lol… bah… just one game i know… but the nets?
by Mannie32 on Nov 7, 2008 9:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Denver and Dallas game is on now. I’m praying that they loses so that I can feel better about the trade and the loss tonight. But then again I like Billups and also I want him to stick it to Joe D for trading him. Ain’t it going to be a bitch if the Nuggets and the Pistons are to be in the Finals this year?
by HB on Nov 7, 2008 9:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Restructer_It, yeah but there was nothing wrong with his scoring. Ain’t his fault if the backups can’t do their job right.
by HB on Nov 7, 2008 9:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I mean on defense he was. Billups would have been a lot better at stopping Harris… That said I think this move will work out. My biggest question about the move is how does Sheed fit in. He definitely looked a little out of place. Anyone else agree?
by Restructer_It on Nov 7, 2008 9:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Chauncey looking in control early on
by prophecy_projectz on Nov 7, 2008 9:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if anyone could have guarded Harris tonight — he was just on fire, sprained ankle and all. One of the beefs with Billups was that he was aging and slowing down and had a tougher time guarding small, fast guards. When someone is in the zone it takes an entire team effort to stop them, not just one guy. We needed to trap, get the ball out of his hands, rotate better on his drives with our bigs, etc.
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 9:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think the starting lineup should be Stuckey, Iverson, Hamilton, Prince and Wallace. Stuckey should never have been off the bench.
by HB on Nov 7, 2008 9:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
HB: Talent-wise that lineup makes the most sense, but it might not always work matchup-wise.
by Garrett on Nov 7, 2008 9:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t think Stuck played that well either. I guess it was just street ball and nobody looked good, so i’ll reserve my analysis till the next game or at least until we get some more practice in. I thought we just looked awful today.
by Restructer_It on Nov 7, 2008 9:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The first quarter looked good (AI was involved in every play with assists and shots) but it kind of fell apart after that. There were also a lot of blown defensive assignment; one memorable one where Stuckey ran right into AI while Devin was driving the lane…
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 9:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Rob is right, we did look good the first quarter… That was just a lot of street ball ago now.
by Restructer_It on Nov 7, 2008 10:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rob G, so you’re saying the Pistons are in their Pistons self. You know, playing real good for the first half and fucked up everything else in the second half.
by HB on Nov 7, 2008 10:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is a whole different Pistons team. Comparisons aren’t valid anymore of Pistons teams before this season.
by Restructer_It on Nov 7, 2008 10:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
HB: in a way, but with two caveats: 1) AI hasn’t been with them but a few days and B) CALM THE HELL DOWN BROTHA THIS IS A 50 WIN TEAM. LOSSES HAPPEN
by Rob G on Nov 7, 2008 10:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
wow looking at the boxscore we lost the last 3 quarters eh? teh first quarter was the only one where we outscored them
by Mannie32 on Nov 7, 2008 10:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rob G, I want them to win every game. Losing sucks.
by HB on Nov 7, 2008 10:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
that actually made me calm down, rob g.
chauncey did not do well with small fast pgs either. i don’t think he would have made a diff. i was in and out on the game because i’m at work, but did curry switch up defenders on harris? did rip or tay get a chance or was it just a.i. and stuckey?
by JackDutch on Nov 7, 2008 10:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the Allen Iverson era….
“Now with more blown games vs the NEW JERSEY NETS”
Great f*ck*ng trade Joe…
by PistonsGirl4Life on Nov 7, 2008 10:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
lol its hilarious how ppl overeact to 1 game, Iverson actually kept us in this game, Tay and Rip were clanging shots all 2nd half,
by Rban on Nov 7, 2008 10:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No. I’m sorry but I don’t like this. I still don’t like it, I’m pissed as all hell and it hasn’t changed in like five days now. I’m trying REALLY hard and you know what? THIS STILL SUCKS AND I DON’T LIKE IT….
I don’t want this guy on the Pistons, I don’t think we’re better, I don’t LIKE having the team I root for quit two games into the fucking season and I want Chauncey back
SO NO, I WILL NOT RELAX
Kthanx.
by PistonsGirl4Life on Nov 7, 2008 10:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
PG4L:
Did you see Billups before the game? He is so happy to be back in Denver.
Rban:
A.I. definitely kept us in the game at the end no question.
by Restructer_It on Nov 7, 2008 10:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
P-S-Y-C-H-O
You illiterate moron
by PistonsGirl4Life on Nov 7, 2008 10:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It was a pretty lackluster bench performance, I’ll admit.
AI had a few careless passes, but the other guys were frequently unprepared for them. It’s a completely different style of ball distribution.
It was nice to see NJ completely collapse on AI, time after time; he commands a LOT of attention.
I could look at this as a process. Or I could just look at it as a harbinger of doom, equally as rational.
C’mon, remember all of the good times, where we all used to talk about how happy we were that Dale Davis got five rebounds of the bench? Or how thrilled we were when Amir would get three minutes before the end of the 1st half? We were all so innocent, back then…
Rob G. – Eye C what U did their! LULZ!
by Keegan on Nov 7, 2008 10:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What I think— we need to develop some sort of software virus that shuts off a few specific people’s keyboard inputs whenever the Pistons are down. The Boo Hoos will be silenced, and the rest of the realist crew here can continue their conjecture.
And also, we need one that reads my blood alcohol level and shuts off on me too. Better yet, everything I type should just come out: “go to sleep, you drunk bastard. go to sleeeeeeep.”
by Mike Payne on Nov 7, 2008 10:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No doubt. Me and my buddy Zack were at the bar, and Curry called that time out with 16 seconds left, and Zack’s like, “we still have a chance!” I could just see his wife’s head swelling, ready to explode.
by Keegan on Nov 7, 2008 10:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I just got back from the game. I read the game thread here, but did not look at the box score. I’ll elaborate more in the morning, however, I’d like to say this:
HB and P_P, you guys are effing morons. The only reason I read your posts is when people are calling you out. I hate the kind of fans you are. I’m friends with some people who are fans like you. I cannot watch games with them. It’s like sports exist solely to nit pick at them the way they nit pick at their lives. It’s irritating. I wish we had an “ignore user” function so I’d never have you read your inane shit again. I had pretty good seats tonight and while I don’t claim to know everything about basketball, your observations are flat wrong.
PG4L, I don’t want to get into it with you. You’ve mostly been a good presence around here. I think if you give this AI thing a little bit of time you’ll come around. He gives us a dimension we’ve never had with this group of players. I think it’s a net positive. It’s just going to take a little time for everybody to mesh and for us to best figure out how to utilize him as a weapon.
The one thing that really frustrated me was the lack of playing time for Amir. I thought he was absolutely phenomenal early on. He was a major problem for the Nets. His positioning was terrific on the boards, I thought he was a major catalyst for us early. He was really, really good. When Boone was killing us, he should’ve been put back in the game. I also thought Kwame was awful. He failed to seal the baseline over and over again and it led directly to probably 8-10 points. I had kind of a unique angle to view the game so I saw some things I don’t usually. Again, I’ll elaborate more in the morning, I kind of want to watch the second half of the Denver game.
by Other Matt on Nov 7, 2008 11:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Are people seriously judging this trade off one game?
by Quick Darshan on Nov 7, 2008 11:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t see the game, but the comments made it sound like the Pistons were sloppy. They only had 9 TOs (only forced 5 though). Other than the 4 TOs, Iverson had a great stat line.
How was Yi Jianlian? His stats were good too.
by Quick Darshan on Nov 7, 2008 11:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Did they ever try putting Afflalo on Harris?
by Quick Darshan on Nov 7, 2008 11:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@Quick Darshan:
Yes, the boohoos. I’m going to start a site called DetroitBooHoos.com so that HB, Prophecy and others can go shed their tears alone.
Everyone else, the regulars and newbies alike: no. No one is judging this trade off of one game, fortunately.
I personally put the loss on two people: Tayshaun Prince and Michael Curry. I’ve loved, loved everything I’ve seen out of Michael Curry thus far. But tonight, he gave a little too much rein to a failing bench, relied on players with cold hands and didn’t adjust to NJ’s energy. As for Tayshaun, he had a great night if you don’t look at this FG%. He was taking some STUPID shots tonight. He shot 27%. I have a feeling MC was forcing his offense though, but have nothing to prove that…
But after starting 4-0, I have to give my boys credit. They’re allowed to have an off shooting night here and there. I’m not going to complain… When AI gets acclimated, this is going to be one sexy lineup.
by Mike Payne on Nov 7, 2008 11:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
QD, yeah, we did. And he immediately fouled him because he got beat off the dribble. It wasn’t pretty. Harris played just about as well as he could’ve tonight. We had no answer. It would have been just as bad with Chauncey.
I thought Yi was really good. He had a tendency to disappear a little bit. He was terrific in the first half. He made a couple of excellent passes out of double teams and nailed a huge 3 late. I know people like to make fun of him, but I think he could turn out to be a pretty useful player.
by Other Matt on Nov 7, 2008 11:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
MP, I watched the first quarter and a half thinking, “nobody can beat us in a 7 game series. It’s impossible. We’re too deep, too fast, too good. We’re freaking relentless. We can run on anybody. We can keep up with anybody, even our second unit.”
Of course, after I had that thought, the rest of the game happened. I didn’t think we played well. I didn’t quite understand the rotation. I think we’re going to kind of trudge along here for the next 20-25 games while everybody figures this thing out. All the ingredients are there, we just have to figure out how to combine them.
by Other Matt on Nov 7, 2008 11:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
@PG4L, HB, and PP: Iverson’s expiring contract is stronger than your doubt
by Forty on Nov 7, 2008 11:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It doesn’t make too much sense to get too wrapped up in the team’s first lost especially considering a really bad whistle, cold shooting, and acclimating to a new starting point guard.
I’m pro the AI trade, however only because it changes the team and I really think a trade for the sake of a trade is actually a OK strategy given losing in the same round three years in a row. If Billups was given the minutes and shots that AI has over his career perhaps Billups would be the one of the games most prolific scorers? Who knows? That could be said about a lot of players in the league. Fact is, Billups wasn’t ever given that role, and AI has been over his career, and that’s not coincidence. But after watching a little of the Nuggets game tonight and watching the Pistons game in it entirety, I know I will miss his leadership. I fear Hamilton and Prince will never have the team leader personality. Rasheed never took that role in Portland when he was more or less directly asked to. Iverson was that guy for Philly, we all know that. But he never took the reigns of the Denver team. He’ll have to do that with the Pistons because that is what Billups provided above everything else. Iverson is more talented, sure, but I’m not convinced more point guard talent is what this team needed to improve. It’s nice to replace a great player with an elite player, but chances are the great player on your team is why your team hasn’t reached your goals.
I wrote this summer that what this team needs is a rebounder, a guy dedicated to defense and rebounding. I think we have two of these people: Amir Johnson and Jason Maxiel – better yet they have respectable offensive games as well. I’ve watched every game so far this year and I’m boggled by the minute distribution. I love that everyone is playing, but not when and in what pairing. Take down the stretch of tonight’s game, it was AI, Hamilton, Stuckey, Prince, and Wallace. First, I don’t like Stuckey and Iverson out together because they provide the same thing. Frankly, at this point, at the end of the game if we’re going to have someone driving to the hoop for a big bucket, or to get a foul, or just for the sake of penetration to create a shot, shouldn’t it now be Iverson? I don’t think we can have the best of both worlds, developing Stuckey and playing Iverson, simultaneously (at least not without sacrificing something). More importantly, we were relying solely on Wallace to defend the interior and rebound. Prince is a decent rebounder but he’s not a box-you-out precense. Add to that, Rasheed spent the entire night roaming the top of the key double teaming Carter and leaving his man, Boone primarily, unattended for a slew of easy buckets. I said this before but he is now Sam Perkins. The only difference is he plays like old Rasheed Wallace when he goes up against an elite PF or C. Otherwise, he’s just an out of place defender that shoots 3’s at a high %. Amir has played well in the last few games, especially tonight, but Curry doesn’t put him back in for his second shift of either half. Why? I understood when Herman was on or if Kwame or Maxiel were playing great, but to just go with Stuckey instead – I don’t understand. Stuckey is not a front court player and either is Richard Hamilton, sorry, but no. Both of Maxiel’s shifts were very abbreviated, for no real reason I could detect. Kwame I think has been surprisingly decent. At one point in the second half we had a lineup of Stuckey, Prince, Herman, Kwame and Maxiel – I understand the desire to isolate Prince so that he has to be aggressive but this gave us no real flexibility on offense of defense. Isn’t it just that Prince isn’t aggressive – can you make someone be aggressive? Bottom line is that are front court players don’t get any minutes, other than Rasheed who tries to guard Vince Carter the whole game – that strategy won’t work. You have to plays your bigs.
I probably sound way too negative as I think the season is off to a really good start, but my take is that the Iverson trade, while it will either improve or, at the least, not hurt the team, didn’t really fix the problems. Starting Amir is great, but if he only plays 6 minutes a half – is that really Amir starting? Does that really count as him getting more involved? Or is that just starting him for the sake of change? Is playing one 6 minutes shift each half starting? He doesn’t get really any touches offensively and that was something that Larry Brown fixed with Ben that was a real big difference maker for the team’ success. Difference is here Amir has an offensive game to tap into.
I think it’s easy for Pistons fans to become uneasy. I do kind of feel like we just got Shaq or Jason Kidd. The sure fire hall of famer. The guy with all the records while the “better player now” we shipped away. Dallas and Phoenix came off as desperate and pathetic. I think it’ll work out better for us – but I think Curry needs to realize that simply playing everyone a chunk of minutes isn’t really the same as playing the right people at the right times. That will come though. And I think Joe Dumars needs to realize that our point guard, aka arguably the best player on the team, probably wasn’t our top issue to fix.
And I know this is long, so people won’t read it.
Other than my Grandma. She’ll read it. Because she loves me.
by Juicebox on Nov 8, 2008 12:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Congrats to Smooth with his first win in Denver. He certainly looked smooth tonight, he was my favorite player and i’ll miss him… That said, I’m ready for Boston on Sunday! Reign in the Iverson/Curry era.
by Restructer_It on Nov 8, 2008 12:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Denver won, YAYYYYYYYYY.
Joe D had made another Darko like move. Nice job Joe-the-Dummy.
by HB on Nov 8, 2008 12:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Love the reception Chauncey got – Denver is now my second favorite team. I really, really like that guy.
by Forty on Nov 8, 2008 12:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
HB Iverson is going to be great to watch this year. He is going to have that incredible will to win that Garnett had last year… And Iverson isn’t crazy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fiYKptoFWU
(Garnett post championship overreaction)
I wish someone would put together a compilation of all the times he talked to himself and hit himself in the head.
by Restructer_It on Nov 8, 2008 12:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Forty:
"PG4L, HB, and PP: Iverson’s expiring contract is stronger than your doubt"
+1
When we meet in fantasy hoops, I shall bench all my players for your win.
by Mike Payne on Nov 8, 2008 12:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
…that is, of course, if I wasn’t Obama-ing the shit out of Kevin S. right now.
by Mike Payne on Nov 8, 2008 12:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Also Popovich is just phenomenal in interviews.
Reporter: Does the loss of Parker change anything for you on offense?
Pop: Are you serious with that question? ::pause for effect:: Yeah, I’d say it does change some things.
by Forty on Nov 8, 2008 12:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
MP – I can’t talk b/c Kevin Devin Harris’d the hell out of me last week
by Forty on Nov 8, 2008 12:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
@Forty:
I got lucky, I got really lucky, I somehow New Jersey’d Matt Watson last week. However, my Obama-down on Kevin was anything BUT luck, just like Obama’s candidacy. :)
by Mike Payne on Nov 8, 2008 12:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
“However, my Obama-down on Kevin was anything BUT luck, just like Obama’s candidacy.”
Given that Jason Kidd has outperformed Kobe this week, the comparison is apt. That said, if Rahm Emanuel is running you team going forward, you are an early favorite for the championship.
Until March, when O’Neal is injured, VC gives up, and the media turns against your squad.
by kevin s. on Nov 8, 2008 1:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I’ll off VC, O’Neal and others myself before I Christ my team into a holy war my country and the world don’t support…
I just used Christ as a verb. That makes me nothing short of awesome.
by Mike Payne on Nov 8, 2008 1:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
http://www.freep.com/article/20081108/SPORTS03/81108004/1048/SPORTS
Chauncey took #7 in honor of another famous Denver athlete…some guy named Elway. I’ll still root for him, and hope we remember him after he retires. I’m more than ok with retiring #1.
Dice will be back by Xmas. We hope. Both the Cs and LAL will make a run for him, but I have the feeling he’s coming back here. Whoever he signs with, we’ll know the true story then.
It’s going to take a few games for AI and the DPs to get used to each other. They will in time, but the record may be a little spotty. I see them more like a 55W team. Next few games will continue to be high scoring; the pace is going to be faster and the team has to figure out how they’re going to cover for AI on D. But I think they’ll be ok.
by V on Nov 8, 2008 2:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I feel quite strongly that with McDyess, we would have won tonight. Chauncey wouldn’t matter— we needed reliability and experience in the frontcourt, something we didn’t have tonight. I might be silly saying thing, but I think this team’s missing piece for a championship is Antonio McDyess…
by Mike Payne on Nov 8, 2008 2:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
So while watching the game, my friends and I remarked on how entirely unselfish AI’s play was (6 assists despite only shooting 12 field goals himself). Obviously AI has the capacity to play unselfishly, but will he do so consistently? Past history does not provide the indicator we’d want to see as Pistons fans (for example: only 15 shots in his Nuggets debut and 10 assists), but perhaps AI meant what he said at the press conference in terms of doing whatever it takes to win.
JackDutch: I don’t think it’s fair to lump Rip’s shooting night in with Tay and Sheed’s performances. Their combined 7 of 24 (29%) looks quite a bit worse than Rip’s 8-20 (40%). Besides, Rip was 4-7 from three point range tonight. I’m not saying he’s gonna start shooting three or more 3 point attempts/game. But if last year taught us anything, it’s that Rip’s legit from beyond the arc now at the very least in small doses.
A consistent three-point threat would be huge for this team. Despite his tank job tonight, I think that Walter Herrmann will become that guy. And he’ll also be the guy for the highlight reel-finger roll from time to time.
Juicebox: Kwame is surprisingly decent? Come on man, he’s always been decent in the context of a role player, a member of the rotation. He just hasn’t come within a sniff of being worthy of the number one overall pick. Those are separate issues, which apparently is a concept that is very difficult for some people to comprehend. Are Kwame’s hands still coated with butter? Yes, but he’s actually averaging more rebounds/48 minutes than Amir right now. Sure, the season is terribly young and I don’t expect that trend to continue, but the fact that Kwame’s even hanging in Amir’s neighborhood after five games let alone besting him should say a whole lot.
by LawyerBoy on Nov 8, 2008 3:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why is it a surprise that AI couldn’t seamlessly drop into the Pistons offense built around one of the best pure point guards in the game who also happened to be the unquestioned leader of his team?
This trade is great for the Pistons and has nothing to do with early season performance – this is about Game 5 of the Eastern Conference Finals and beyond, and I think that the Pistons are a whole lot more likely to be going there today than they were a month ago.
Free Amir!
by farlane on Nov 8, 2008 5:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i saw the pistons at the garden last year. great seats. i was psyched for a big easy over the lowly knicks. pistons lost by at least twenty points and made no shots for much of the second and third quarter. it happens. it did seem that there was some clanging at key times last night. that said…i am worried they seemed disjointed by ai. but maybe if they had made some key shots…
by andyfrombrooklyn on Nov 8, 2008 6:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I’m with andyfrombooklyn. The Pistons looked like world beaters in the first quarter and a half, and when things fell apart, it never seemed like it was AI’s fault. If anything, this game convinced me even more so that AI on the Pistons can work. Give it some time — preferably more than two and a half quarters.
by Matt Watson on Nov 8, 2008 6:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I’m more than willing to suspend judgment on the trade and this team in general (that was my mindset before the trade) for a few months. This adjustment period may be very unpleasant with this tough stretch coming up, but I don’t expect the team to play as poorly as they did tonight.
One thing to wonder about is if the team does come out of that stretch with a mediocre record, will McDyess really want to come back? He could probably get offers from the Lakers (ugh) or Boston (UGH) for more money and a better shot at a ring if that was the case. He has his buyout, so money probably isn’t his first priority. He also said he wasn’t going to be a ringchaser, so this may be unfounded.
He really needs to come back, though. He has a stabilizing effect on the second unit, and he puts less pressure on Amir and Maxiell.
by Paul M on Nov 8, 2008 7:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great stuff with the Dantley piece. What a lot of people also forget is early in the 1988 season, Mark Aguire almost knocked out three of Dantley’s teeth in an early regular season game. Talk about adding salt to the wound when they go and trade him away for that same guy. Aguirre was also a friend of Isiah’s and that was thought to be one of the big reasons for bringing him into town.
by Kerry on Nov 8, 2008 8:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I’m about to drop a novel here in the comments, but I just want to address 2 things first.
Juicebox, the 2nd paragraph that you wrote was pretty much spot-on with the exception of your opinion on the Stuckey-AI pairing. I thought with Stuckey and AI on the floor together, Stuck was getting to the rim MUCH easier. He’s just not a very good finisher right now. I don’t really know what else to say. He’s an unbelievable athlete who can get to the rim pretty easily. AI opened it up for him because it looked like the Nets were (rightfully) more worried about AI taking it to the rim.
Your other point I wanted to address was how you said Tay would never become our leader. On the last possession of the first half he saw something and started shouting at Iverson. It was pretty clear Iverson didn’t understand what he was yelling about, probably because Tay was on the other end of the bench. So he walks out on to the floor and stood directly in front of Curry yelling, pointing, coaching the whole time. I had seats about 30 rows behind the end of the Pistons bench. I was watching for moments like this the whole game. Tay is unquestionably one of our leaders.
by Other Matt on Nov 8, 2008 9:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Alright, so you guys know I was at the game last night. I actually want to say thanks to the Nets for basically giving me free tickets for no reason. Yesterday I moved back home (yuck, Jersey) from Washington and had the day off. I called the ticket office early in the morning and was talking to one of their employees named Ryan. I asked if they had any special promotions and if they had any seats left for that night’s game. He told me they were doing a “buy one get one free” deal and had plenty of lower level seats available. I explained that I was from Detroit and meeting up with some friends from home who were living in NYC. I explained that I needed somewhere between 2 and 6 tickets and had to make some calls and find out how many people were in our group. He gave me his direct line and told me to call him back. After I had gotten a hold of my friends, 2 had to work late and others already had tickets. So I call this guy Ryan back and tell him I only needed 2. He tells me that they were no longer doing the “buy one get one” promotion, but that if I agreed to buy tickets for another game, he’d leave me his personal seats ($110 face value) for that nights game. I ended up buying 2 $90 seats for next month’s Raptors game for $86 because they were discounted and under the “buy one get one” deal (Raps were the best available option, plus an opportunity to scout Bosh). So I basically got $400 worth of tickets for $90. It was an awesome deal and I’m greatly appreciative.
On to the game: we were introduced in the same order as always with AI subbed in for Billups. There were a ton of Pistons fans. I saw a lot of Philly Iverson jersey’s, so it was kind of hard to tell how much of the noise was attributed to Pistons fans or Iverson fans. I can say that we were really well represented.
The first thing that jumped out at me was that AI gives us an entirely new dimension with our first unit. He commands respect of the defense at all times. He can get to the rim at will. He’s a superstar. He gets superstar calls, he gets superstar respect. I’ve been to a lot of Pistons games over the last 6 years, this was noticeably different from the tip. Throughout the first half during free throws and other short breaks, AI was often talking to Curry.
I posted earlier that after the first quarter and a half I thought to myself, "nobody can beat us in a 7 game series. It’s impossible. We’re too deep, too fast, too good. We’re freaking relentless. We can run on anybody. We can keep up with anybody, even our second unit." We were playing really well, but obviously, we hadn’t meshed. I think it’s going to take the better part of 25 games for us to figure this out. It will come. The ingredients are all there. This brings me to my next point.
The rotation was kind of inexplicable. I thought Amir was really good, he was a monster on the glass early. He really does all the little things very well. I was disappointed he was limited in minutes. There was no reason not to put him back in when Boone was killing us on the glass. Rasheed just wasn’t very good. I thought Kwame wasn’t very good. He failed to seal the baseline several times and that allowed the Nets to get several easy baskets. He’s a big guy who moves well. It’s shocking to see a big man move like that in person, he just wasn’t very sharp defensively. We definitely missed McDyess. Again, the ingredients are all there, Curry just needs some time to get it all figured out.
Is there another sport where the officials constantly feel the need to interject themselves into games at random times? The first half was pretty smooth, I thought. In the second, everything got whistled. It was really irritating. We were in the bonus really early, like with 8 and a half remaining in the quarter. Once we got in the bonus, we started settling for jump shots. It was the same problem that plagued us last year. That was what allowed the Nets to get back in the game in the 2nd quarter.
I mentioned the Stuckey-AI dynamic in a previous post. One other thing that warrants mentioning is Stuckey was awful on D. He ran into other players a couple of times allowing his guy either a free lane to the basket, or to get wide open. We definitely struggled on D, I think it had a lot to do with having a new guy in there. We’ll be fine.
One last thing, in pre-game warmups, I thought Bynum had the best dunk. That little guy can really fly, I was impressed.
(Sorry for the rambling disjointed mess. I’m sure other things will pop in to my head as the day goes along. We had seats 30 rows behind the end of the Pistons bench, it was a unique angle to see the game.)
by Other Matt on Nov 8, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
my thinking on this game is that everyone is still adjusting to the entry of ai into their system. i believe curry have to rethink and redo everything in light of ai. i believed that the day curry was announced to be the head coach, he has already envision how this team will operate. curry must have already thought of what plays and roles is suited with this team without an ai. but now with the entry of ai, everything changes. i think even curry didn’t know what to do with it. let chalk up this game as an experiment in trying to acquaint or figure out the right chemistry.
by C4life on Nov 8, 2008 9:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Last night’s game was definitely an up and down performance. Iverson brings a completely different rhythm to our team then Billups, so it’ll take a while for everyone to get on the same page. Like I said before, we lost our 1st game with Aguirre and Sheed and both of those seasons turned out ok.
It’s not a huge concern yet because of our track record, but where has the defense been this year?
by Jim on Nov 8, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
First of all,
MP, Kevin S., et al. +1 for the snarky politico fantasy basketball exchange. I liked that.
As for topic of the day:
I don’t really fucking know. Personally, I think this team is going to have to go through some really rough stretches. If we win 60+ games and make it look easy, I’m just going to be waiting for it to all go to hell in the playoffs. I envision a championship run involving win streaks where we play like the first quarter and then losing streaks where we get beat by the Nets and the like. However, the defense has to improve. My hope is that Curry is basically just experimenting as he goes and he’ll have it figured out for the last third of the season so we can rattle off a 13-game win streak like in the championship season.
I miss Chauncey, though. It was weird seeing him in Denver. At least he looked happy. I’ll be rooting for for the Nugs.
by Colin on Nov 8, 2008 11:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Colin – agreed, the Nuggets are now clearly my second favorite team in the NBA
by Forty on Nov 8, 2008 12:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The fact that we are averaging something like 7 TO’s per game, these 3 since the trade is just mind boggling. We trade our all-star franchise point guard and start taking better care of the ball. Nothing short of amazing. I think over all we’ll be fine. I don’t particularly like Stuckey & AI on the court together a lot because they play the same game and will probably just be in each others way. We can’t win every game. I guess we’ll have to settle for 81-1. Damn, I was hoping for a perfect season. A.I’s efficiency blew me away I must say. He didn’t hog the ball (only 12 shots) he had a nice amount of assists (6). If he continues to score 24 pts on only 12 shots and dishes out 6-7 assists, I see championship glory. He won’t be taking anymore shots than CB and that still leaves plenty of room for the other weapons on the squad to thrive. Lets Go Pistons!!!!!!!!!!
by E-Double on Nov 8, 2008 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
E Dub,
I mostly agree, but I don’t see how we can avoid playing Stuck and AI together for substantial periods. Stuckey and Curry are going to have to figure out a way to tailor his game to playing with AI without hampering his develpment. It can be done, but it will likely be a slow process.
by Colin on Nov 8, 2008 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Amir in 18 minutes plus gets no shots in AI’s first game just one put back.
This is going to be very big problem if AI continues to ignore Amir on the court.
It looked like we were playiong 4 on 5 on offense with Amir and AI out there together.
Didn’t MC glue AI in that Amir can shoot?
by Mike on Nov 8, 2008 1:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mike -
You’re so right. There were times where three Nets would collapse on AI, and Amir was left completely unguarded, EVEN IN THE LANE. AI deferred to Rip and Tayshaun all night long, but Tay couldn’t knock one down to save his life, especially in that second half.
I’m not saying finding Amir was a key to victory, but those were considerably higher percentage shots than the 20+ footers that were getting hucked up there. But it should all be pretty obvious from watching the tape, easily remedied and all that.
I think, overall, I was most disappointed with Boone looking all-world out there, especially in the second half.
by Keegan on Nov 8, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mike: Are you advocating AI present Amir more opportunities to shoot in the form of jumpers, or provide more field goal attempts around the hoop?
by LawyerBoy on Nov 8, 2008 2:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
and the cherry on top: devin harris sits out tonight against the pacers. so that was a gimpy devin harris that popped us for 30+. awesome.
by JackDutch on Nov 9, 2008 12:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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