My big worry:

If the game goes into a second overtime, it will turn into Sunday on the east coast.

Considering our performance on Sundays, we simply can’t let that happen.

Pretty much every single year in recent memory, I’ve picked the Bucks to do better than they actually did. This year, I stopped picking them to do well, mostly on the idea that the Mo Williams trade was bad for them, that Skiles has annoyed me ever since he lit up Antoine J. in his MSU vs. UM college days, and that I just didn’t want to try typing Luc Richard Mbah a Moute.

The Bucks may prove me wrong about them once again. But I hope not tonight.

Rip has decided to stage a blue flu to protest his lack of crunchtime minutes.

On the good side, it means a departure from smallball for a night.

On the bad side, it means too many minutes for Iverson on the second night of a back-to-back.

I was hoping that Iverson could sit more tonight, and that it would be a good opportunity for Rip to operate with Stuckey.

hopefully it means more Amir, MFWB, Afflalo and Herrmann and less AI and all his accessories

This does seem like a game that could use some handsome

MFWB FTW

that’s right Gabe

Kevin Sawyer writes:

Alas, the Bucks come to the Palace having won five of their last six,>>

This is Mike and I do not approve this message.

Question:

Which team has a real Prince playing for them tonight?

The Bucs or the Pistons?

Answer:

The Bucs

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute is an actual prince in Cameroon his native country.

I got an email from Luc Richard once asking for $100,000 and in return he’d split $40,000,000 with me!

Boney, who do you hate more? Rip or AI?

(Boney’s head explodes)

I don’t hate AI or Rip..

If I had a choice? I’d keep AI and get rid of Rip. The more players we have that can create their own shots, the better

+1 Garrett

yo, anyone got a link

Amir starting

3 minutes until 2 fouls?

TRADE AMIR!!!

Amir with the nice post move.

AMIR STROKING IT

No link so far, unless you have sopcast.

Great start for Amir. Nice hook shot. And an offensive rebound.

Refs starting to stop picking on Amir? He’s gotten away with two fouls he usually gets called for.

Richard Jefferson still plays?

LawyerBoy doesnt like it when Amir Johnson is the best player on the floor

Why doesn’t Amir play more..again?

From now on, Dumars should just draft Ben Howland coached players. Luc Richard would look great backing up Tayshaun.

Sauce doesn’t like it when he’s not included in pro-Amir posts.

Sauce doesn’t come here anymore…

why not?

Luc Richard had no offense when he was with the Bruins.

He couldn’t shoot beyond 5 feet.

He must have practiced hard this summer

The sopcast link is running nicely for me.

sop://broker.sopcast.com:3912/60565

AI must be happy that Rip isn’t playing tonight…. so far he’s on pace to hog the ball all night

Dear Amir,

Please prove you should get more playing time tonight.

-Your biggest fan!

6 boards in the first 9 minutes

Best rebounding big forward in college basketball this year.

Drew Gorden freshmen, Bruins averaging 16 rebounds per 40 minutes.

With all due respect John W. Davis, Mike is Amir’s biggest fan. If he keeps playing like this, I might become a “Free Amir Liberal” too.

Amir is getting his hands on the ball in every posession.

link?

yeah, I need a link

how do you use sopcast?

found a link for you guys:

http://albaaa.altervista.org/watch.php?id=205

Thanks, Gabe. That link wasn’t broadcasting at the beginning of the game, but it looks great now.

You must download the software from their website. Then sometimes download some other software that will alter things that probably shouldn’t be altered lighly (something called winsock, maybe). Then somehow get the link from sopcast to operate in the sopcast software viewing module thingy (things is a technical term that software engineers use).

There are instructions on the website, which if you follow them allow you to watch the game, sometimes.

*lightly

I dont like the red unis

I like Amir Johnson in the red unis (the white and blue ones too).

With all due respect John W. Davis, Mike is Amir’s biggest fan. If he keeps playing like this, I might become a "Free Amir Liberal" too.>>

Natalie at Need4Sheed is a bigger Amir fan than I am. I believe that she actually knows him.

If he ever can starts playing 30 minutes a game I will go on to hyping another young player who is think is underplayed. However, I will always be a fan of Amir’s, but I won’t talk about him so much. LOL

This is Mike and I approve this message.

that milwaukee arena looks like the worst in the league

One interesting and funny Amir comment.

One of the Bucks announcers said Amir was from Louisiana. I think he said that because if Joe D. hadn’t drafted Amir, Amir was probably going to go to LSU.

He is of course from the Los Angeles area.

Another tidbit about Amir.

At Westchester High in addition to being Mr. Basketball in CA, Amir was a track star!!!

No Sheed. He competed in long distance and short distance running.

I wish Amir would drive on Bogut.

I believe Amir was thinking of going to Louisville to play for Pitino.

Amir is having the best all around game tonight

/everyone else except LawyerBoy’d

The buck’s color guy is pathetic.

this guy Mostapha Al Turk is a big bitch… jesus

Amir with the most awkard shot eva!

awkward!

AMIR JOHNSON IS THE BEST AT BLOCKING WEAK LAYUP SHOTS

amir is on the court

what a unique thing… our frontcourt starters have 10 rebounds each… wow, it’s amazing what happens when you start 2 big men…

Fire Curry

Joe Alexander = bust
Luc Richard = steal

Can the Pistons close out the game in the 4th?

Joe Alexander looks totally outmatched

a night of magic?

is amir’s suspension over?

Malik Allen = old

Orlando is up next.

The Magic right now are probably the 2nd best team in the league.

Cavs
Magic
Lakers
Celtics
Spurs

Detroit is better than the Spurs and the Cavs because they have beaten them!

/PG4L’d

The lakers are not better than the celtics. yes they beat them, but they are not the better team

Celtics
Cavaliers
Magic
Lakers

Joe Alexander could have used some Beilein coaching.

PISTONS MIGHT ACTUALLY GET A BLOWOUT WIN…SOMETHING THEY AINT HAD ALL DARN YEAR!

amir has been freed. can the pistons hold the twenty point lead?

i’d say it goes like this:

lakers (they had a rough stretch)
celtics
cavs
magic

and somewhere aaaaall the way down, there are the pistons… unfortunately

anywho… great game tonite (it’s just the bucks though, oh how standards have fallen)… i’m mainly suprised that despite the third quarter blowout, we haven’t allowed the bucks to get back into this (at least not yet… :S)

also, great to see amir out there and more so i’m glad to see him playing well… still think AI should come off the bench with rip at starting SG, but of course AI’s ego would never allow for such a logical lineup switch

Rampage knocked Silva the fuck out

If Mike is his biggest fan that’s cool with me. I just want to be on the board of directors for the Amir “Young Hyphy” Johnson fan club.

Boney- What up with the extra punches—read it on the play by play. Foul or no foul?

Sheed – 3/10 from the 3 point line

jesus

Cross,

He got in 3 punches after knocking him flat, I can excuse the first one… the ref tried to stop it as soon as Silva went flat, the first one I could let go but the next 2 were just love taps, not really horrific, just excessive

Ahhhhh! No spoilers Boney!

It would be nice to see Amir get some touches on the offensive end. He’s almost for the double-double, but can’t get the ball down low.

Even though there aren’t many comments for this game, it’s like Amir Watch 2008 up in here! You’d think we were the Detroit Amirs or something! Anyone else do anything this game?

Amir fouls out! DBB’ers get their wish! Who is this new coach for the Pistons?

Ah well, great game for the youngster anyway.

Garrett,

It was a shitty fight, to be honest.

Rampage shot the legs once, the rest of the fight they were just standing up. Rampage caught him with a left hook and put his fucking lights out.

The 3 hits as the ref stopped it were revenge for getting embarrassed back in the day.

Tayshaun and Michael Redd had a little prayer session or something after the game. Weird.

35 solid minutes and fouls out with 10 seconds left. LOL

He must have finished running on fumes.

His fouls committed go way up as he gets tired.

Hopefully Amir will stay in the starting lineup and be able to log 30 plus minutes a game.

Garrett, it was a pretty boring game. Milwaukee looked awful. Unforced turnovers. Missed wide open jumpers. Detroit didn’t play great. Didn’t have to. Best highlight was a ridiculous shot by AI where he went baseline, looked like he was just going to dribble through and then hit a fadeaway that would have looked physically impossible if he didn’t make it look so pure.

Thanks for the recap, QD! Sounds like a sleeper, but a win is a win. Can we fire Curry now?

Tayshaun and Michael Redd had a little prayer session or something after the game. Weird.>>

Two gold medal winners getting together, nothing weird about it at all, unless one doesn’t believe in comradeship

LawyerBoy doesn’t like it when praise anyone other than Richard Hamilton or any of the Clippers, including former Clippers like Shaun Livingston.

Mike: Good point. Not sure why it struck me as weird when the camera lingered on it. I guess because games don’t normally show it.

I thought that Stuck played like shit, but when I looked at the box score he shot 6-13 for 16pts with 6 boards and 6 assists/1to. Not bad for what seemed like an off game.

Sorry about crossing wires on the home/road thing. ESPN’s team home pages aren’t getting it right…

Colin, I thought he shot worse than that too.

Re: stuckey having good game or not

Didn’t he also guard 2-11 michael redd a lot?

I would have watched, but my internets is being crap. Nice to see Amir getting the start and repaying the faith. I feel better with Sheed at the 4 and Prince playing his natural position. MC is still AFI.

Forty, yeah he looked real good defensively.

Forty:

Yes, but I thought he missed a lot of open shots. The bucks as a team couldn’t really buy a jumper.

kevin s., that is completely unacceptable.

You are a fucking idiot.

/LawyerBoy’d

“Tayshaun and Michael Redd had a little prayer session or something after the game. Weird.”

Both are Christians. That’s what Christians do. Also, some players went out for burgers and beers…

Kevin S: Yeah, like I said, they just don’t usually show it. They also don’t show burgers and beer.

(I also just watched Religulous 20 minutes before the game ended, so that could be why it jumped out at me)

A couple amir thoughts from tonight:

1. How did he only get credited with 4 blocks? I counted closer to 6 or 7, not to mention a few altered shots

2. I think we need to parse out his fouling into two different negative aspects. First, there’s the sense in which it keeps him off the floor. That’s absolutely not a reason to play him more minutes or not. If you think he’s being effective but “will never be able to average 40 minutes at that rate” then we should foul him out every game. Take an extreme example: dwight howard used to be more prone to foul trouble. That was a bad thing b/c it kept the magic’s best player off the floor. But it’s crazy to then conclude he shouldn’t have played at all. (Please note in no way am I saying amir is even half the player howard is).

The second aspect is that it tends to create points for the other team, via cheap and ones (there was one bad one tonight) and pushing us into the bonus. Setting aside and ones, which can be very punitive (and he needs to work on avoiding), a foul is just not that costly to your team in the nba. It’s nothing like a turnover or low field goal percentage. Often, amir’s fouls are stopping lay-ups (like the westbrook foul last night). And to the extent you don’t like amir pushing the other team into the bonus, you have to give him credit for plays where his hustle draws a loose ball foul on the other team (which happened three times today by my count, one of which forced the bucks to take out luc richard).

I guess my point is that amir’s foul rate should be low on the list of reasons for why he shouldn’t play. I think his weak jump shot, tendency to make boneheaded turnovers, occasional complete lapses on defensive rotations, unwillingness to dunk in traffic, etc. are way more problematic.

I concur, Forty. Hopefully Curry does too.

Amir = Night of Magic

Amir is the best ever

Boney – damn, I just realized I miswrote my post. It should have read: “in no way am I saying dwight howard is half the player amir is”

Also speaking of nights of magic, where is rob g these days? We need him, diablo, and sauce back in full force!

Forty you blemished the post with the sole lengthy analysis piece at the end. This was supposed to be the casual, not so interested in this game, a wins a win game, then two weeks later: “oh look that Milwaukee game was the real turning point.”

Restructer – it will be if it helps convince curry to abandon small ball and bring ai or rip off the bench

I am buying Rob G a beer at the next Wizards v. Pistons game… that should bring him back home!

“I guess my point is that amir’s foul rate should be low on the list of reasons for why he shouldn’t play.”

I agree with Forty’s comments about Amir.
Amir had a solid night— 8 points, 10 rebounds and 4 blocks. I didn’t watch the entire game, but I did see a few possessions where Rasheed and Amir worked well together to protect the paint. I think Amir’s athleticism, tenacity and hustle complement Rasheed’s ability to guard on-the-ball in the post. I hope that we start Amir against the Magic. If Amir continues to get playing time, he’ll learn how to stay out of foul trouble and he’ll only get better from playing with Rasheed.

I love it when the +/- is exactly what my eyeballs would guesstimate:

Roscoe +26
Bubbachuck +20
Amir +19
Tay +14
Stuck +8
Maxiell -17

Curry in the postgame:

We’ve been good (defensively) in stretches, especially with two bigs on the floor. With the small lineup that we usually start, we give up that inside presence. Not having that other big, teams attack even more to the inside. When they attacked today, if they did get by Amir or Rasheed, the other one was there to protect the basket.

Translation: we’re better when we don’t play smallball.

And for the money quote:

We all understand that we have two shooting guards and both of them are very, very good. We need to give them fair time on the court so they can be productive. Because of that we lose some time with our bigs.

Translation: I’ll stroke Rip’s ego even if it costs us wins.

Amir’s +/- was jacked by the run the bucks made in garbage time – he was right there with sheed in the minutes that mattered

I wonder if michael curry’s coaching sessions are like the surfing scene in forgetting sarah marshall.

“Kwame, don’t catch anything. Ai, throw him the ball. Nope, do less. No, no do less. Nope you’re still doing too much, do less.”

“Amir’s +/- was jacked by the run the bucks made in garbage time – he was right there with sheed in the minutes that mattered”

No doubt. Amir had a beautiful game.

And the thing I love about Afflalo is that while he had a miserable shooting night, (1 for 8 from the field), I was still happy with seeing him on the court. I love the decisions he makes on the floor.

Here is my contribution to the little photoshop club.
(hope it works)

I think Curry is getting better as a coach. He doesn’t seem so tightly wound and I think the team struggling early on had a positive effect on his coaching style. He seems simultaneously more humble and more confident. Circumstances have helped (AI and Rip having minor injuries helps the rotation problems) but Curry is finally taking lemons and making lemonade instead of the reverse. Nice road win against a well coached team. That’s progress.

Let’s not forget that it was a 2-point game at the half; the Pistons killed them in the third; and the 4th quarter was even until garbage time, when the Bucks pulled a little closer.

The spurt in the third was made possible in large part by some excellent defense. ‘Sheed made some great defensive plays — he owns Bogut — and yeah, M.C., the interior defense is better when you play a normal-sized lineup with two bigs and don’t have your 3 and 4 guys out of position and significantly smaller than their opposite numbers.

So the big question is, now that we see that things can work pretty darn well with Amir and a normal sized lineup, what will we do when both AI and Rip feel up to starting?

A win for big-ball (especially if it involves Amir getting 30+ minutes) is a win for both the short-term and long-term good of the pistons.

“Translation: I’ll stroke Rip’s ego even if it costs us wins.”

C’mon. It’s both of their egos. And Rip is signed in Detroit longer. If you’re a coach, you don’t want to create a rift with a player you’re going to be with for a while (assuming you don’t get fired).

Plus, AI is more capable of manning the point that Rip. So unless we want to make Bynum a regular part of the rotation it makes more sense to split Stuckey and AI’s minutes, than Stuckey and Rip.

i co-sign with quick darshan… clearly AI would make more sense coming off the bench… stuckey and rip have better chemistry, and AI’s scoring is needed off the bench anyways… so whose ego is being stroked? not rip’s, but AI’s

AI needs to come off the bench… I think plenty of us have said this from game 1.

AI’s ego is the only one on this team that Curry has to worry about. The rest of the team has made sacrifices “for the team” and understand what it takes to win, AI is the only one who has always been about himself.

Sorry, just stating the truth here.

Sorry if it’s a dumb question, but I’ve missed the last two games for being out of town for the holidays with family. But who is A. Johnson? Dude must suck, since he fouled out and only Sucky McSuckalots foul out.

I think we traded Walter Sharpe for him, in one of those potential-for-potential deals.

I do think this game likely pushed mc one step closer to bringing AI or rip off the bench. But it still doesn’t solve a major problem: if you admit we’re better off with big ball, who sits in crunch time? Can you imagine the uproar if iverson or hamilton or prince isn’t on the floor when we lose a playoff game?

Lucky for us, this is probably only a one season problem.

Forty, this just popped into my head. How about Rip STARTS with Stuckey, he and AI play about the same number of minutes, and AI FINISHES. Rip and Stuckey can begin the game together, as most of us think he should; AI can be the offensive spark off the bench; and AI can be that superstar-at-the-end-of-the-game-Detroit-supposedly-never-had to to create crunch time shots like he did against the Thunder.

OK, I know Rip has made shots like that too, e.g. recently against Utah to send the game into OT. But Iverson is more of a “create his own shot” guy.

I know it’s odd to imagine a different lineup starting and finishing close/important games as the regular plan. But we already have been doing that somewhat in that Dyess has been finishing games and not starting.

Moment of silence for the lions…

“C’mon. It’s both of their egos. And Rip is signed in Detroit longer.”

I continue to think Rip’s contract extension was all about keeping him happy while his role decreases. He got the money to keep him from whining while his minutes went away.

The problem is all about Rip’s ego because if you play the ideal rotations for this team, Rip will only get 22 – 26 mpg, and that obviously is not what he’s used to. (And those numbers are already assuming Curry limits Iverson’s minutes down to the mid-30’s from where they are currently.)

“Plus, AI is more capable of manning the point that Rip. So unless we want to make Bynum a regular part of the rotation it makes more sense to split Stuckey and AI’s minutes, than Stuckey and Rip.”

There are multiples problems that conspire to limit Rip’s minutes:

1) An AI/Rip backcourt won’t work very well.
2) We need Afflalo to get regular minutes if we’re interested in winning a series against Cleveland or Boston.
3) The AI/Stuckey backcourt is useful in limited minutes.

Here’s the rotations I offered up in the previous thread, (and FWIW, they were designed to be overly generous in terms of Rip’s minutes precisely for ego protection reasons):

Iverson/Afflalo 20mpg
Iveron/Stuckey 14mpg
Stuckey/Rip 14mpg
Rip plays 12mpg at the ‘3′

If ego protection were removed, I’d trim Rip’s minutes down by another 2 – 4 mpg.

“Lucky for us, this is probably only a one season problem.”

I’d expect the odds are better than 50/50 that Dumars brings back Iverson, Rasheed, and Dice next year. He can sign them all to generous one year deals and not screw up his cap flexibility in 2010. I’m guessing he’s smart enough not to offer a crazy contract for the middling talents of Carlos Boozer.

0-16! YAY!

The Lions finally accomplish something..

Yeah, the Lions didn’t give up in the second half when they were behind, to their credit. Their problem is that they just really aren’t any good, talent-wise.

I hope Petey’s right, in the sense that I don’t want Carlos Boozer, even with Arnie Kander’s eerie healing powers on our side. There’s just always some sort of injury issue with him.

If you can get any of the three Ps you named for a relative song, then I say do it. Just not at the expense of our future, cap-wise or development-wise, in the case of Stuckey, Amir, etc, the same old bit.

“I know it’s odd to imagine a different lineup starting and finishing close/important games as the regular plan.”

It’s not that unusual for good teams. The Spurs finish with Ginobili. Last year, the Celtics finished with Posey.

“Knock, knock”

“Who’s there?”

“Owen”

“Owen who”

“Owen sixteen!”

“Knock, knock … Owen sixteen!”

You wanna know the scary part? The Pistons play ten more Sunday games. We’re already owen six…

“The problem is all about Rip’s ego because if you play the ideal rotations for this team, Rip will only get 22 – 26 mpg, and that obviously is not what he’s used to.”

I don’t think it’s egotistical for an All-Star to think it’s better for the team if he plays more than 26 mpg.

He didn’t complain when he got moved to the three. He took the challenge to guard bigger players. But, asking him to come off the bench in favor of the guy that just got here is a bit much. Especially when he’s a far superior defensive player.

“asking him to come off the bench in favor of the guy that just got here is a bit much”

I completely agree if we are approaching the issue in terms of ego protection rather than in terms of winning games and preparing for the Eastern Conference playoffs.

That said, I still don’t care who starts and who doesn’t. If Curry uses the rotations I specified above, I have no problem with Rip playing the first five minutes of the game so he can save face.

Starting lineups matter for the press and the fans. Rotations matter for winning.

Petey,

Do you not understand what every full time Piston fan on this board is saying?

Rip doesn’t deserve his minutes cut, he hasn’t done anything wrong. He’s not the new man in the fold here, and he’s not the worse of the 2 players.

Cutting Rip’s minutes to 22-26 mpg is an insult to what he has done here as the starting SG. Putting AI’s oldass on the bench and making him the 6th man is a more suitable decision, and would make Pistons’ Nation much happier.

Rip isn’t the problem, AI is.

I am Boney, and I approve this message.

One thing that Curry might try is to sit guys completely instead of managing the minutes. Steve Kerr talked about doing that with Shaq and Steve Nash in Phoenix but he never followed through. I think your body stays fresher playing 5 games @ 36 minutes per game over two weeks instead of 6 games @ 30 minutes per game over the same period — even though it’s the same total minutes of playing time. Give AI, Rip, Sheed and Dyess each one game off every two weeks and the entire roster would get regular important minutes and there would be no rotation problems. That’s how they do it in world class soccer, they manage games played more than minutes per game.

and another thing… why would Joe D just re-sign the man to a what, $12m per season deal and allow Curry to sit him on the bench?

Dyess, Sheed and AI are not all coming back next season… Dyess is likely retired, AI won’t accept a small contract… Sheed is likely the only one who would come back, and it depends on if the front office wants him back.

“Rip doesn’t deserve his minutes cut, he hasn’t done anything wrong.”

You would make an excellent children’s Tee Ball coach. However, in the NBA, words like “deserve” and “fair” should generally take a backseat to words like “effective” and “win”.

“Do you not understand what every full time Piston fan on this board is saying?”

But you HATE all the Pistons’ players, Boney. I’ve been assuming you were a Celtics fan. My understanding is that you’d actually have to root for the Pistons in order to be a Piston fan…

Honestly, this is one of the best games I’ve seen the Pistons play this year, and you know why? NO SMALL BALL! It’s sad that Rip’s injury forced Curry to play the lineup that best suits this team, but maybe he’ll see the light after this game. Sure, the Buck’s aren’t a good team, but there were points during the game when I thought the Pistons looked dominant. The defense was stingy, the ball moved around well and everybody got shots. Amir did exactly what we needed him to do, play good interior defense, rebound and score the easy ones. I attribute some of the lapses in scoring to growing pains that should have happened much earlier in the year had these five been playing together. If Curry is a coach who wants to win, he needs to man up and have Rip or AI come off the bench, plain and simple. Look how well Tay did last night compared to his recent streak of below par games. Let the man play his position.

“However, in the NBA, words like "deserve" and "fair" should generally take a backseat to words like "effective" and "win".”

That’s all well and good, but it’s usually defense that wins championships. Rip is by far the better defensive player.

I’ve always liked AI and I’m happy to see him play for the Pistons. But, I think it’s debatable whether he or Rip is a better overall player and gives the team a better chance to win. Hands down, he’s a better at creating his own shot. Rip is the better player without the ball in his hands. At passing, AI’s better, but only by a little. He constantly frustrates me because his passes are very inaccurate. He always seems to throw it at a shooter’s feet, throwing off his rhythm and leading to missed jumpers that easily could have been makes.

When it comes to defense, Rip is better at guarding both PGs and SGs. So, it’s silly to say that AI is clearly the one that gives the team a better chance to win it all.

The above is not to say that AI is not important or shouldn’t be on the court in crunch time. I just think it’s asinine to suggest that Rip playing only 26 minutes a game is better for the team and that he’s some sort of egomaniac if he didn’t accept it.

I’ll co-sign that AI’s, not Rip’s, minutes should be cut. First, AI’s not taking a one-year deal next year. He’s got the same issue manny ramirez had – the sooner he can negotiate what will likely be his last long-term deal, the higher he can get his salary in the out years of that contract. And we’re not going to “almost win” this year – so there’s going to be little incentive to take a one-year “last chance for a ring” deal that could meaningfully hurt his future earnings.

Thus, I regard AI as a rental. Afflalo and hamilton are not. And we should manage minutes accordingly (from a developmental perspective for aa, from an ego perspective with rip). That is with “winning” and “efficiency” in mind.

Moreover – I absolutely think hamilton is better than iverson at this point in their careers. AI might get a slight nod on offense for his ability to create his own shot. But I also don’t think you can discount the effect hamilton’s outside shooting has on 1. His efficiency (hitting 3’s at 40 pct is a massively positive thing) and 2. Spacing on the floor, when you have lots of above average offensive weapons (like we do). And defensively it’s not even close. Hamilton is our best defender on ray allen and lebron james. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I don’t want to watch lebron light us up in crunch time while ripster is on the pine.

To be clear, that’s not to say I think AI should always be on the bench or play just 5 mpg. In fact, I would be very happy with an offense-defense rotation in the last minute or so between him and prince.

Qd – I agree with literally everything you just wrote. I am especially glad you pointed out AI’s inaccurate passing leading to missed jumpers. I too have noticed this and it’s such a shame. He’s an unbelievable penetrator – imagine if he could do that and hit people in rhythm, instead of throwing a soft pass at their feet which allows the d to close out. Oh yeah, that’s what two-time mvp steve nash does.

And as qd points out, that’s not to say hamilton is a better passer than AI. Imo he’s not. But this fantasy of AI driving and dishing is just that – a fantasy. For all his talent at penetrating, it’s amazing how frequently he fails to create high percentage shots for his teammates.

In contrast, rip’s best pass is when the pick setter on his curl rolls, and he flips him the ball. But it’s become something of an obvious move, and the celtics now sell out on it completely.

“I just think it’s asinine to suggest that Rip playing only 26 minutes a game is better for the team and that he’s some sort of egomaniac if he didn’t accept it.”

I’m not saying Rip is an egomaniac. I’m just saying that Curry seems more concerned about massaging Rip’s ego at the moment than in getting the team in the proper position.

The current transition isn’t going to be easy on Rip, and that is not a knock on Rip’s personality, it’s just how things are. I really do think Dumars gave him the extra dollars to keep him from getting too unhappy with the situation, because we are going to need him to be productive in his new role in order to succeed.

And if you don’t like Rip at 22 – 26mpg, where do you find him more minutes?

Cutting from Afflalo or Iverson is suicide this spring. Cutting from Stuckey is probably not helpful in terms of this spring, and definitely isn’t helpful in terms of how the Pistons see their long-term future. Playing more smallball is also suicide this spring.

We’ve got four guards who need tick and only 96 backcourt minutes to divide up before getting into smallball rotations. Add in the fact that Rip can only be effective when teamed with one of the three other guards, and you get to something like the rotation I proposed.

I’m also co-signing with Forty and QD. Hamilton has shaken off the early season shooting slump. He’s turned himself into a fairly versatile defender (in reasonable doses, he can bother both a quick PG with his length and larger SG/SF’s with his quickness/dirtiness/peskiness). Any realistic scenario of us beating Boston or Cleveland involves Rip playing very well and a healthy number of minutes.

There’s obviously some stubborn-ness with people on both sides of the question of which player- Rip or AI- should come off the bench- and honestly I think either player could be an effective 6th man and we’ll be a better team no matter which player comes off the bench.

Anyway, the AI/Rip debate is probably gonna go on for a while, just wanted to say that both sides have some good points, IMO it makes more sense for Rip to be the starter at SG, but I’ll happily have it be AI if it means I never have to see the Pistons trot out another small-ball starting line-up again.

Agreed gabe – smallball is clearly the greatest evil, not who gets fewer minutes

“There’s obviously some stubborn-ness with people on both sides of the question of which player- Rip or AI- should come off the bench”

They can BOTH start.

I think we should play a 3 guard lineup for more than 0 mpg, and there is no reason why some of those minutes can’t be at the beginning of the game, if it will help keep certain unnamed players from getting too unhappy.

The issue is just about limiting the number of smallball minutes we play to waaaay fewer than the 30 smallball minutes we played in the Atlanta game, for example.

I think playing smallball for around 12 mpg is a reasonable number for this team to be successful, and again, there is no reason why some of those 12 minutes can’t come at the initial tip-off.

The problem is that Curry is playing smallball for waaay more minutes than is optimal, he already knows it, and he’s doing it entirely to keep certain unnamed players from getting too unhappy. That really can’t continue.

Petey,

You’ve been here what, a little over a month? You and your favorite ballhog of all time come to town and all of the sudden the starting shooting guard needs to change his role in order to fit the requirements that you and the rest of the AI followers seem to think AI deserves. Please…

Rip is the better SG for this team. Ask me last season with Billups in the lineup and I’d argue that Rip needs to go but as of right now, with Stuckey starting, I am happy with Rip at the 2. Rip deserves at least 33 minutes per night, and he deserves to start. He plays effective defense, he moves great without the ball, and he is the consumate team player.

It’s not Rip that needs to change his game, it’s AI. AI is the one who should come off the bench for 25-30 minutes a night. Why penalize Rip for acquiring AI? It’s not Rip’s ego that needs stroking, it’s AI’s. Pouting on the bench in Atlanta, missing practice at thanksgiving, etc…

I’ll be glad when AI’s gone from this team. All he’s done so far in Detroit was bring his hangers-on with all their AI wristbands and And-1 mixtapes… christ

ask anyone else here how I feel about Rip, and you’ll know that my support for Rip over AI is unprecendented.

just because the guy is a hall of famer doesn’t mean he deserves coach curry needs to cater to all his needs.

bring his oldass off the bench with Afflalo, Hermann, Dyess and Maxiell… that’s a solid 2nd unit.

“ask anyone else here how I feel about Rip, and you’ll know that my support for Rip over AI is unprecendented.”

Boney writes upthread:

If I had a choice? I’d keep AI and get rid of Rip.

To be fair, I think that deep down in his heart, Boney hates all of the Pistons players equally.

“all of the sudden the starting shooting guard needs to change his role in order to fit the requirements that you…”

Don’t blame me, dude. I didn’t assemble this roster, Joe Dumars did. I’m just telling you how to make it work.

“First, AI’s not taking a one-year deal next year. He’s got the same issue manny ramirez had – the sooner he can negotiate what will likely be his last long-term deal, the higher he can get his salary in the out years of that contract.”

I don’t think anyone is stupid enough to throw big dollars for multiple years at Iverson at this point. Everyone understands what the future looks like for a 33yo small guard who relies on his hops. His big earning days are over.

From here on out, he’s going to be signing contracts for the MLE. ($5.5m per year.) If Dumars offers him $10m for one year, and if he wants to come back to Detroit, I think that keeps everyone happy.

And since Dumars has to bring Dice back for a year to pay him what he owes him, he probably brings Sheed back for a year as well. And once you’ve signed both those guys to one year deals, signing Iverson to a one year deal too becomes the obvious path to take.

“And we’re not going to "almost win" this year – so there’s going to be little incentive to take a one-year "last chance for a ring" deal”

Well, if we keep playing stupid rotations in order to massage egos, then you are correct that we won’t win or “almost win” this year.

But if we play the right rotations and give players the right roles, we can be a genuine contender this spring. We’ve got all the pieces. Now we just have to be willing to hurt some feelings in order to fit those pieces together correctly.

I like AI’s first-quarter-out-of-the-gate scoring. He should start. Stuck can penetrate. He should be encouraged to keep after the hoop. Rip needs someone to pass him the ball. He was great in the Billups offense. Stuck can give him that offense to a point, but how much do we want to keep acting like we’re the same team when we’re not? I love the extra offensive options we have with AI. I agree that AI’s defense is weak, but I think small ball’s defense is weaker. I hate that Rip should come off the bench, but I think we need to try bringing Rip off the bench. There, I said it.

Petey, you sure did nail me there… wow

I almost take that back except, we’re talking about sitting Rip in favor or AI. We’re not talking about QD’s question to me of who do I hate more.

In this offense, give me Stuckey and Rip starting and put AI on the bench. Putting Stuckey and AI in the same backcourt is counterproductive.

Dumars doesn’t owe Dyess more money for what he lost in taking a buyout to come back to Detroit. Dyess is a free agent and is free to sign elsewhere, he likely would retire as he considered doing this offseason.

If we’re going to give up on this season and focus on the future with all these expiring deals, then give Afflalo some run and see if he’s worth extending next offseason.

Stuckey 30 mins – AI 18 mins – MFWB
Rip 30 mins – Afflalo 5 mins – AI 13 mins
Prince 35 mins – Afflalo 10 mins – Rip 3 mins – Herrmann
Amir 25 mins – Maxiell 23 mins
Wallace 25 mins – Dyess 23 mins – Brown

That’s how this lineup should be handled.

@Petey:
“But you HATE all the Pistons’ players, Boney. I’ve been assuming you were a Celtics fan. My understanding is that you’d actually have to root for the Pistons in order to be a Piston fan…”

Dude, you’ve got to give the guy credit. He’s been sour on Rip for years now, and he put his prejudice aside to defend that player in the best interest of our team. Its a bit foolish to call him anything other than a loyal Pistons fan when you’re just going to disappear after the end of this season…

Boney’s been here since the beginning, and the only two players he knocks regularly haven’t been innocent the last few seasons…

@Petey:
“I think we should play a 3 guard lineup for more than 0 mpg”

I agree, as I said from very early on, we should start Amir at the 4 and bring Tay off the bench— or start Prince at the 3 and bring AI off the bench. Change this based on matchups.

I’ve been away for a weekend, but damn was I happy to see that Amir started— and did not disappoint.

We should be clear though. The problem with the rotation isn’t because of AI. It’s because of the emergence of Stuckey and Afflalo (and a marginal frontcourt). With Billups here, Curry would still be going small ball.

Petey, I agree that smallball is fine to start the game and the problem is that Curry is overusing it. I disagree that he’s overusing it for Rip’s benefit.

I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that Curry is starting with his six best players (Stuckey, Rip, AI, Tay, Sheed, Dyess) and mixing in the others, one at a time, to see how they fit. Hopefully, I’m not giving him too much credit.

Sounds good to me:

Stuckey 30 mins – AI 18 mins – MFWB
Rip 30 mins – Afflalo 5 mins – AI 13 mins
Prince 35 mins – Afflalo 10 mins – Rip 3 mins – Herrmann
Amir 25 mins – Maxiell 23 mins
Wallace 25 mins – Dyess 23 mins – Brown

Matt W., print this out, put it in a shoe, and throw it at Curry at the next presser.

Co-signed on boney’s rotation. It is consistent with the bottoms-up matchup analysis we’ve all made. And it works top-down, in that our best players all play a lot (ai, rip, stuckey, and tay).

Also, petey, I think you’re out of your mind that AI is getting the mle from here on out. If dave berri proved one thing, it’s that the nba pays ppg – and AI is what third all-time? He’s currently getting voted as a starter for the all-star game. The perception of iverson is that he’s one of the best in the game, and he puts butts in the seats.

Put another way, if you think of free agency as an auction and the bid is mle, you don’t think SOME team goes higher, just to generate fan excitement? Omg durant and ai! These aren’t your daddy’s thunder!

Also, I’ve been thinking about our backcourt crunch time lineup. Against boston, I’d sit AI. I think rip is the best for chasing allen (AI = ballwatcher = ray allen three = lose, and prince is the only guy who can handle pierce. And stuckey has to be out there 1. for rondo and 2. for rip.

Against cle I also think you have to have rip for lebron. And you need 2 bigs against them – ben and z will murder you on the offensive glass. You need stuckey for rip…so I say sit tay. AI’s offense is valuable, and you can hide him on whoever’s at the 2.

Against orlando I’d go with our current (meaning recent, not the game rip sat) starting lineup. Tay can shut down lewis, and rip can handle hedo. Hide AI on their 2. I think you would really put a lot of pressure on them offensively, while giving up little on d.

So I guess I really just want AI out for boston, b/c the cost of his d against them is so high.

All – back from traveling MI to see my folks.

Merry Christmas, all. Hope everything went well for y’all.

And Boney, yeah, you’re buying me a beer.

Does anyone here think that Curry is going to play AI less than 35-40 mins a game? I swear I heard him talking about how he doesn’t do well with long periods of rest. Lots of folks have thrown out intriguing line-ups that rely on the premise of AI playing reduced minutes. I could see Curry changing his mind on small ball, but I don’t see him significantly cutting Ai’s mpg. And I don’t think it’s cuz he’s scared too or doesn’t want to offend AI, I think it’s just really easy to fall in love with a dynamic player like AI and before you know it he’s played 40 mins.

I think MP’s suggestion to bring Prince off the bench makes the most sense because you put a ridiculous offensive line-up on the floor and by going big you negate the defense you lose by cutting prince’s minutes. Also, Prince will keep his MF’ing mouth shut about minutes. And we’re always complaining about him breaking down during the playoffs – this would keep him fresh. However, I think this has about .01% of happening.

Stuckey must start. Period. He gets better and better, shoots a high percentage and has a good A/T ratio. He can score and get people the ball, straight up. Bring AI off the bench. Who did the Bad Boys bring off the bench? The Microwave, the instant offense guy. Iverson is that guy. Bring him off the bench, and he will play like the bucket-droppin’ Iverson of years past, just looking to score relentlessly. Finish with whoever is hot/working defensively for that game. That allows Amir to start and more big man minutes to go around, and put our beat SF defender at his normal position. This will add stability and consistency that this team needs. Who was our other starting big man when we won in 04? An energy guy, Ben Wallace. Amir is an energy guy who actually has a jumper! It’s a no-brainer!

Stuckey Iverson Bynum
Rip Iverson Afflalo
Prince Afflalo Herrmann
Johnson Maxiell
Wallace McDyess Brown

Beat offense/defense at all times that I can think of.

Does anyone here think that Curry is going to play AI less than 35-40 mins a game? I swear I heard him talking about how AI doesn’t do well with long periods of rest. Lots of folks have thrown out intriguing line-ups that rely on the premise of AI playing reduced minutes. I could see Curry changing his mind on small ball, but I don’t see him significantly cutting Ai’s mpg. And I don’t think it’s cuz he’s scared or doesn’t want to offend AI, I think it’s just really easy to fall in love with a dynamic player like AI and before you know it he’s played 40 mins.

I think MP’s suggestion to bring Prince off the bench makes the most sense because you put a ridiculous offensive line-up on the floor and by going big you negate the defense you lose by cutting prince’s minutes. Also, Prince will keep his MF’ing mouth shut about minutes. And we’re always complaining about him breaking down during the playoffs – this would keep him fresh. However, I think this has about .01% of happening.

oops sorry for the double post.

Forty- You think that Rip should be the primary defender on LBJ for an entire series? He’s definitely done a good job on him in stretches, but I think LBJ just has too many physical advantages that after about a game he would figure it out and dominate rip.

The “ai doesn’t play well unless he gets 40mpg” meme just seems ludicrous to me…god I hope curry doesn’t believe it

Just to be clear, Forty, I’m not endorsing that meme. I do think Curry buys it though.

Which, to follow up, means that AI will likely get approx. 40 mpg. Right now he’s just under 38. I just feel like our backseat driving should be implemented with that in mind.

LeBron would take Rip’s lunch money in a 7-game series. He’s a beast and Rip is a stick. A stick with tricky, dirty defense, but still a stick.

Colin – I know u were not, sorry if my response seemed to suggest otherwise

Garrett – lebron takes a lot of people’s lunch money – how do u think he got so huge in high school? Lots of tiny milk cartons…

“Also, petey, I think you’re out of your mind that AI is getting the mle from here on out … The perception of iverson is that he’s one of the best in the game, and he puts butts in the seats.”

He puts butts in the seats ON THE ROAD.

Only winning puts butts in the seats at home, and home is where the franchise makes money. Attendance in Philly collapsed when the team collapsed, well before Iverson was dealt.

The 500 extra season tickets Memphis would sell in the wake of the press conference wouldn’t justify a $50m contract.

Also, only teams under the cap can offer him more than the MLE.

Of the relatively few teams under the cap next year, who is going to offer him big bucks?

Lousy teams would rather develop their young talent than pay them to watch Iverson work. Good teams that could make use of Iverson’s talents will either not be under the cap, or won’t want to commit long-term dollars to a player who is likely to fall off the cliff in the next couple of years.

Iverson has career earnings of $150m so far, before endorsement deals. I’d expect his future earnings to be a VERY small percentage of that number. He’s already banked almost everything he’s going to get. From here on in, he’ll be playing for expenses and love of the game.

“lebron takes a lot of people’s lunch money”

Afflalo defends his lunch money well against LeBron…

Forty, no need to apologize. You just gotz to be careful or like two days later you’ll get accused of hating this player or that or wanting to have like ten million of Mr. Johnson’s babies (well that’s sort of true).

Petey – I’m less sure on the probability that he takes or doesn’t take a 10m or so 1 year deal with det. But I’ll bet you an “I told you so” on this here blog that if he goes somewhere else it’s for more than the mle.

Also I love the idea that he’s playing for expenses now. I wonder what AI’s expenses are? What would his budget look like? About 5 bank accounts, three ounces, and two vehicles?

“Also I love the idea that he’s playing for expenses now. I wonder what AI’s expenses are? What would his budget look like?”

Dude’s got a payroll.

The funniest moment of his introductory press conference in Detroit with Dumars wasn’t the “practice” riff, instead it was Dumars politely reading the list of names of Iverson’s entourage and welcoming them all to Detroit.

“I’ll bet you an "I told you so" on this here blog that if he goes somewhere else it’s for more than the mle.”

Done. Easiest “I told you so” I’m ever going to earn.

“I don’t see him significantly cutting Ai’s mpg. And I don’t think it’s cuz he’s scared or doesn’t want to offend AI, I think it’s just really easy to fall in love with a dynamic player like AI and before you know it he’s played 40 mins.”

I’m in love with AI’s game, and I want to see his minutes cut.

I don’t think Curry understands how to get the most out of Iverson yet.

1) Fewer minutes per game.
2) Let him probe the defense early in the shot clock.
3) More minutes alongside Afflalo, Tay, and two bigs.

Boney, I saw the fight on MMA Core. Wanderlei isn’t the fighter he was 2 years ago. As Jim Rome would say, when you lose it, you really lose it. And he’s really lost it, the guy owned in PRIDE.

Interesting how playing a bigger lineup has made MC a better coach. As I have stated before, I’m willing to be patient regarding MC-many mitigating factors. I don’t think we’ll be seeing AI and Rip start together by, say, March, barring injury to Stuckey.

(1) We all agree that small ball is a problem, but Quick Darshan makes a good point above: “The problem with the rotation isn’t because of AI. It’s because of the emergence of Stuckey and Afflalo (and a marginal frontcourt). With Billups here, Curry would still be going small ball.”

I think adding a HoF guard to an already crowded backcourt makes the problem more acute, but yeah.

(2) We’re talking about AI’s ego and Rip’s ego, and it’s not unlikely that one or both would be less than thrilled with coming off the bench. But of course none of us (I believe) actually KNOW what AI or Rip would say to that proposition. I wonder if Curry or Dumars has seriously considered approaching one or the other.

@Colin, Garrett:
Remember, we had our most effective game against Lebron when Rip was guarding him. While logic would suggest that Lebron would eat Rip to pieces, it surprisingly was not so. The sample is only one game, but it leaves much to be explored there. I hope Curry tests it out again late in the season against CLE.

Rip held Lebron to 4-17 shooting. Lebron said of the game:

"He’s a very good on-the-ball defender and he has a lot of good off-the-ball defenders," James said. "When he’s guarding me, he’s not guarding me 1-on-1."

So its not just Hamilton’s efforts, but in leading the defense against James he was brilliant. I remember, after watching the game, many of us here commented “we’ve found the secret!” and “what the hell did Flip do! he figured it out!”

While logic would suggest that James would destroy Hamilton, we have one game of evidence that shows it is worth testing. A lineup like this against Cleveland might work swimmingly:

Stuckey
Rip
Prince
Johnson
Wallace

With AI/Afflalo/Herrmann/Maxiell/Dyess of the bench.

Oh, and I want to see Maxiell “accidentally” scalp Varajao and weave that mop into a new net, hang it from the rim all in one motion.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Rip, Prince, and Maxiell alternate the guarding God James responsibilities. LBJ is only hitting a quarter of his three pointers and makes his living running over guys to get to the rim. I’d like to see what Max could do against him with his strength, length, and babyeatingness. Even if only for 5 minutes a game or so. If nothing else, it might force LBJ to change up his game during a hot streak or something. Also, we’ve seen how Tay’s offense does during a 7-game series in which he’s guarding a superduperstar.

Shinons – what happens to tay? I thought he was always efficient, never tired, and averaged 25 and 10 against pierce and lebron. It’s all chauncey’s fault, remember?

Max can’t guard Lebron. Lebron will just pull it out and go around him. It’ll be a combination of Rip, Tay and Afflalo.

I like dreaming about playoff matchups as much as the next guy, but the most likely scenario is that Detroit would have to get through Atlanta and the Celts before playing the Cavs. Yeah, it’s early, and things can change, but the Celts, Cavs, and Magic all have a significant lead over Detroit in the seedings race.

In the first round, the Pistons are currently looking at a #4 vs. #5 matchup with the Hawks; if they get past that, they would be going against the #1 seed in the second round (barring some bizarre meltdown by the #1), and the #1 is probably going to be Boston.

So, let’s think about how we’re going to guard Joe Johnson first.

I think the Cavs are going to get the one seed. They have played better and are a younger squad that can make a push throughout the season.

“Max can’t guard Lebron. Lebron will just pull it out and go around him. It’ll be a combination of Rip, Tay and Afflalo.”

Yup. And Afflalo was the most effective on him in the win at Cleveland earlier this year.

“So, let’s think about how we’re going to guard Joe Johnson first.”

Afflalo, again.

I don’t think you folks appreciate just what a defender you have in Afflalo.

He’s got a combination of length, strength, and foot speed that no one else on the team can match. And he already has an excellent sense of how he can use those gifts to bother featured perimeter scorers without trying to shut them down.

Not only can he bother bigger players like LBJ, but he was also the Pistons best defender against a speedster like Deron Williams earlier this year.

Add in the fact that we’ll only be playing him for twentysome minutes, so he’ll be fresh, and you have the guy who’s going to disrupt Joe Johnson, LeBron James, or Paul Pierce / Ray Allen enough to let us win a seven game series.

And for Pistons fans looking for greatest hits:

NBA TV is running Game 5 of the ‘07 ECF tomorrow at 2:30pm. Set your TiVo’s…

What happened in game 5? Was that a particularly note-worthy game?

/sarcasm

“I don’t think you folks appreciate just what a defender you have in Afflalo.”

We’re way ahead of you, Petey. We’ve been singing Afflalo’s praises on this site since he filled in for Rip to start the season last year.

“What happened in game 5? Was that a particularly note-worthy game?”

Yup. That game is best remembered for Arron Afflalo watching it from his UCLA dorm room saying to his TV, “If you had me out there in the fourth quarter, this shit wouldn’t be happening.”

“We’ve been singing Afflalo’s praises on this site since he filled in for Rip to start the season last year.”

I keep repeating versions of the idea that you folks ought to be looking at Iverson as a way to get Afflalo more minutes on the floor – especially crunchtime minutes.

What keeps Afflalo from getting heavy minutes is that his halfcourt offensive game is still very one-dimensional. If you play him in a backcourt with AI, that particular problem goes away.

If Afflalo wasn’t on the roster, I’d have no hopes of us winning a title this year. Now I just have to worry about Curry figuring out the secret…

Petey:

Really, we do love Afflalo on this blog. And really, I think most to maybe almost all of us here would be happy with the idea that you and others share that Stuckey and Rip should start, AI and Afflalo should come off the bench, etc.

It’s more a matter of convincing Curry and AI.

@Petey:
“I don’t think you folks appreciate just what a defender you have in Afflalo.”

I don’t think you should make statements like that having only been here a few months. We’ve been high on the kid since Summer League prior to his rookie season, and when he earned the starting nod in Rip’s place for a few games last season.

You’re late to the party, Petey. We’re happy to have you, though.

“I keep repeating versions of the idea that you folks ought to be looking at Iverson as a way to get Afflalo more minutes on the floor – especially crunchtime minutes.”

We’ve heard you. However, Afflalo would get more minutes on the floor withOUT Iverson on this squad. The guard logjam is effectively limiting the minutes for our bench guards, afflalo and bynum.

One of my main hopes for the coming season is that AI is NOT on this squad, solely to make room for afflalo and bynum.

“If Afflalo wasn’t on the roster, I’d have no hopes of us winning a title this year.”

Your hopes are based on a sliver-sized data set.

“I think most to maybe almost all of us here would be happy with the idea that you and others share that Stuckey and Rip should start, AI and Afflalo should come off the bench, etc.”

But that’s NOT an idea I share.

I essentially don’t care who starts. I mainly care about AI and Afflalo being on the court together for significant minutes, including crunchtime minutes.

Who starts seems a detail with little impact to me. I think starting matters FAR more for the press and the fans than it does for winning. Rotations are what matter for winning, and the starters only determine the rotations for the first five minutes of the forty eight. For example, we can start the current smallball lineup without playing a destructive number of smallball minutes per game.

All that said, if I were coaching this team, I certainly wouldn’t arrive at the conclusion of starting a Stuckey/Rip backcourt. The logic for bringing key rotation guys off the bench is generally to hide them from the opposition. And if you have a clear look at the Pistons personnel, it ought to be obvious who could most benefit the team by being hidden.

I already have no hopes of winning a title this year, but there is a method to the madness: when we fizzle in the second round, I’ll say to myself, “Well, saw that coming.” And on the (EXTREMELY) odd chance that we actually make a run, I will be most pleasantly surprised.

I do have to agree with pretty much everything Petey has been saying all along: Iverson will be best used surrounded with people that will both cover his shortcomings and benefit from his strengths. I think a “B Squad” of AI, AA, Hermann, Dyce, and Amir/Max does just that. AA and Hermann are both spot-up deep threats, Dyce is mid-range money— they can just wait for AI to get everyone on defense all confused with his CARAZAY dribbling and shoot the wide-open shots he’ll make for them. And then we have Baby Eater or Amir in the paint just cleaning up the residual junk. I think that group as a starting 5 could beat half the teams in the league right now. And that would be our bench.

"However, Afflalo would get more minutes on the floor withOUT Iverson on this squad. "

Worth noting that his minutes are up this year over last.

But, of course, if you didn’t care about winning games, you could play Afflalo 48mpg. That’s not quite what I’m getting at here.

I’m NOT interested in playing Afflalo more minutes in order to play Afflalo more minutes.

I’m interested in playing Afflalo more minutes with Iverson because that’s how we can compete with the elite this year.

“Your hopes are based on a sliver-sized data set.”

My hopes are based on what years of Iverson watching have told me about how to best maximize the advantages Iverson brings on the floor.

And maximizing that particular advantage is the key to being a contender this spring.

You’ll have many years to watch the kids struggle to try to win 38 games, MP, if that’s what floats your boat. This year, and probably next, are all about trying to play into June.

Preach it, Petey.

MP – I think that if we Played the Cavs, we would def want to feed LBJ a steady diet of Rip. Howeva, if you had to pick one guy to guard him for seven straight games, I think it would be Tay. Rip did a really good job in the game you mentioned, but I still think that after a couple games LBJ would become more comfortable with him as he already is with Tay.

I think we would be more successful against the Cavs if we fed LBJ a steady diet of that goddamned State Farm commercial of his. If it makes him half as sick as it makes me it’ll be a sweep.

@Petey:
“You’ll have many years to watch the kids struggle to try to win 38 games, MP, if that’s what floats your boat.”

Now how did you get that idea from anything that I’ve said? You said Iverson would be a way to get Afflalo more minutes on the court, I countered that he’d get more minutes withOUT Iverson. I’m putting your own comments about Afflalo into perspective, not making any suggestions of my own on how to manage this lineup.

Point is, the “play iverson and afflalo” broken record is unnecessary. We’ve heard you, we agree. I agree. My word of caution is that any success this is shown is based on too tiny a data set to call for it to be the primary focus of our strategy. That doesn’t mean its wrong, just that its a bit foolish to call it our “only hope for a championship”.

It can be one of many themes that help us get there, but its tertiary at best.

“This year, and probably next, are all about trying to play into June.”

Oh, is that how it works? Choir, meet preacher.

Magic game thread?

Evaluating Smallball:

We’ve now had eight games of smallball between the disaster in NYC that inspired the policy, and Rip’s injury which put it to a temporary end against Milwaukee.

You may ask, how many minutes per game have we been playing smallball? Well Petey crunched the Popcorn machine gameflows so you won’t have to.

The minutes are the number of minutes played with three guards. The +/- is only for those periods of smallball.

(Keep in mind when looking at the +/- numbers that this is against some VERY weak competition. Only two of the eight games were against teams with winning records, while three of the eight games were against teams winning less than twenty percent of their games…)

OKC 17m -1
CHI 18m +1
ATL 30m +4
UTA 29m -6
WAS 19m +1
CHA 31m +6
IND 26m +6
WAS 38m +6

So that means we’re averaging 26 minutes of small over the past 8 games.

(And the CHI and OKC games both artificially skew the minutes downward, since Iverson was injured late in the CHI game and Hamilton was injured late in the OKC game.)

Compare and contrast to the three biggest wins of the season, all before the official move to smallball.

SAS 11m +9
CLE 16m +9
LAL 18m +4

Smallball is great in small doses. It can catch the opposition off balance, and do some damage before they find ways to adjust. And we’re deep enough in the backcourt that we have the personnel to do it well. But as the way we play the bulk of our minutes, it’s got some fundamental issues that seem impossible to solve. And those issues will only become starker in a seven game series against a good team.

@Mike Payne:
LOL- that is a politely hilarious way of saying to Petey what I think a lot of people have been trying to explain…

@Petey:
Spellcheck has been really good this year. But let’s not go overboard with the uber-tiny sample sizes and think those same +/- numbers will hold true over hundreds of minutes. If we start dissecting minutes into super small chunks than you could argue maybe Acker would be an even better fit next to AI…
http://www.82games.com/0809/08DET6.HTM

“Spellcheck has been really good this year. But let’s not go overboard with the uber-tiny sample sizes and think those same +/- numbers will hold true over hundreds of minutes.”

To just copy and paste myself, it’s based on what years of Iverson watching have told me about how to best maximize the advantages Iverson brings on the floor.

Dear Petey,

Get bent.

Kind regards,
All of the self respecting Piston fans on this site, including LawyerBoy.

perhaps Afflalo’s minutes are up this year because it’s his 2nd year in the league and last year he was a rookie behind Billups/Rip/Juan Dixon/etc

I love Afflalo’s game. I’ve said it before, and I think most people agree, that he’s a total glue guy. He just does the right things and makes good basketball plays. He’s got a nice skill set and will hopefully grow into his role on the team as a valuable 6th man or possible starter. As much as I like having Iverson on the team (despite our struggles) I want to watch Afflalo grow and become a solid player in the league. For that to happen, he needs minutes.

You seem unusually personable for a Celtics fan, Boney. I normally think of them as being a bit more splenetic.

Petey, I’m hardly a Celtics’ fan.