Does Detroit take losers lightly?

The Pistons play poorly against athletic teams because other than AJ, Maxiell and Stuckey non of their players are athletic.

Some of their older players were athletic when they were younger but that was back in 2004 and before.

First, thanks for looking this stuff up, because I was curious. So we play (relatively) better against the better teams? If that means anything, that’s good, right?

Those stats also reveal how bad the East is. Detroit has played 38 games against sub .500 teams, but only 26 against teams over .500.

Wait, so I should buy back all my Pistons memorabilia I eBay’d after last nights loss? Damn…

Great post, Matt, and I totally agree with you.

Who cares if they played “too cool”. We’re locked in for second-place in the East and losing that game did not change the dynamics of anything. The Pistons are the far superior team when they know something is at stake.

They always play with a sense of purpose against teams they respect, i.e., Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Suns, and even the Cavs. End of story.

2nd round at exit this year at best

Not to rain on anyone’s parade but these stats DON’T actually show what kind of effort the team put in during each of those games. I don’t think I’m making this up when I say emphatically:

The Pistons have ALOT of very close games vs weaker competition due to an apparent lack of effort. WINNING these games by a point or two is a reflection of their talent NOT effort. Come on guys, you can’t tell me you’ve FORGOTTEN the string of games this team was BRAGGING about all the starters sitting out most of the fourth…. THAT was a championship team. The team I watched play the first and MOST of the second quarter vs Philly last night wasn’t…

Seriously no amount of “numerical trickery” can change that, the only time it changes is when the team ACTUALLY tries, as we’ve all seen time and time again.

(Just for clarity I’m not predicting Piston’s doom in the playoffs, just stating AGAIN for the record that I’m sick of watching the best damn team in the NBA dog it whenever they feel entitled to a win)

No Chance!!! = annoying, but only because the nitty-gritty has no rhyme or reason beyond “BOOOO, YOUR TEAM IS SO OLD AND LAME, I AM SICK OF YOUR TEAM, LET MY RETARDED (NAME YOUR STUPID TEAM HERE) WIN THIS TIME ALREADY.”

That lame speaks for itself, in a fantastic technicolor lamecoat of elven lame’s wool.

PG4L’s quote:

“just stating AGAIN for the record that I’m sick of watching the best damn team in the NBA dog it whenever they feel entitled to a win”

That’s the perception. Detroit can’t change people from thinking it.

The problem is that they allow themselves to be perceived as such.

Detroit’s gotta prove it. Everyone knows this. Nobody’s buying that “under the radar” crap. Philly’s “under the radar.” That’s not a place for a team that’s been to countless ECFs in a row.

Does anyone know how many times Chauncey has hit the game winning shot this year, and also how many times he has taken the final shot in a loss? Seem like Mr. Big Shot should be dishing the ball a little at the end of games, just saying. Everyone in the building knows who is going to shoot it, he is double teamed and shoots anyway? He’s a great player, but he’s not Jordan.

I agree with Matt…I think people are just freaking out b/c of our losses in the last two playoffs. The playoffs mean everything and all we’ve heard the last couple years is how our team is worn out after the regular season, so I can accept the Pistons not having their “A” game every night. We have the second best points per game differential in the league and the second best record so we can’t be dogging it that much! We are locked into the #2 seed, so it’s natural for a team to be complacent once in a while. Overall the team has played pretty consistent through out the year, so I don’t think we should overreact after a bad loss. If games like last nights keep happening then we’ll have a problem.

I’m proud that DBB can accommodate a different view point. I don’t know if the league has changed or what, but regular season wins and home court advantages used to matter. I’m not so sure that they don’t anymore.

As much as I “gloom and doom” I think this is the best team since our championship season. We CAN win. We DO have the talent, and yet I see us being undermined by overconfidence and Flip’s guidance. I really really hope my perception of our team is wrong. I would love nothing more than to be wrong.

Anyone hear our local sports talk hosts raise the question of Flip’s coaching ability/style today? Seems it’s just not people on this blog calling for the Flipper’s head now. The point was made that he rips the starters for no effort yet they all played 35 minutes.
All the Flip apologists like to constantly point out “we’re 42-18, what else do you want?” or “We have the second best record in the league!” This is true but it’s almost DESPITE Flip.
And no, this isn’t somebody freaking out after a bad loss to a bad team or a fan jumping ship (Another thing the apologists like to point out), it’s a reaction to another loss that could have been prevented by something that resembles a gameplan or an adjustment thereof.
Now don’t get me wrong, Larry Brown as a person=Slimey, but how many times did the Pistons, under his tenure, come out of a time-out and run a play for an EASY bucket? They’d do it all the time! It was like a garuanteed two points coming out of a timeout. How many times do you remember thinking “Man, we could’ve won that game if the rotation wasn’t so terrible tonight” or “We should’ve won but they couldn’t adjust to Insert name here.” It didn’t really happen.
Now ask yourself how many times you may have uttered those things about the Flip led Pistons. He’s not the worst coach out there but the point is, he’s not a championship caliber coach and I think the players have zero respect for him. Not every loss is his fault but there are a number of games I think should have, and could have been won if it weren’t for bad coaching decisions (Utah and last night to mention a pair). It’s just unnacceptable. Isn’t anybody else getting tired of the same old story?

Luck has to come into it. If we play LeBron in the second round it gets real hard to go all the way. I think if this team makes it out of the East it can handle whatever team staggers out of the Wild West.

The last… probably 3 seasons, the Pistons have been my least favorite sports team to follow. That includes the abomination that has been Michigan Basketball. Seriously, it’s so frustrating to see the most talented team in the league piss it all away. It’s something that rarely showed its ugly head during the LB era. The flirting with fricking Cleveland (of all places) during the NBA Finals!? That was it for me.

Even if we’d have gone back-to-back, there’s no way he could’ve come back to Detroit. At the time, Flip was a lock to be the best coach available. People even joked about how McHale was such a bad GM that it was like he was intentionally helping us. Flip Saunders was a slam dunk choice at the time.

I know Mr. D is a very rich man, but he payed LB a king’s ransom to walk away. I can understand how he wouldn’t have axed Flip going into this year. At times it seems like it would be easier to get rid of one of the players to prove to these guys that they have to bring it every night. But seriously, it’s an 82 game schedule. Off nights and slumps are going to happen. People are going to lose focus. We all mail in days at the office occasionally. We’re statistically no worse against losing teams than we were during our Finals years. And I think the East is tougher this year than it was in 04 and 05 (as hard as that is to believe).

So I’m not concerned about our lack of focus. We’ve not really had a cold streak yet this season, so having one now is a lot better than having one in 20 games. What I’m concerned about is Flip’s apparent inability to manage the rotation. I’m going to be seriously pissed of Theo usurps Amir and Max in the rotation. I know I’ve been a semi-defender of Flip’s use of the rotation this year, but what I saw last night really makes me nervous. When we were looking good and blowing teams out, the bench guys were all logging close to 20 minutes a night. We need to get back to giving those guys a long leash. The “development” this season is all going to be for naught if we shorten the rotation and freaking play Theo major minutes in the playoffs.

What we should all thank Flip for is running off Ben Wallace. At the time it seemed nearly unforgivable, but thank heavens we’re not stuck with that albatross of a contract for the next 2 seasons.

Seriously, though, I have to think if we don’t make the NBA Finals, that has to be it for Flip. This particular team probably has 1, maybe 2 more seasons before it’s time to blow it up and go in a different direction. If there’s no Finals appearance, Flip will have proven that the team has gotten no better in his 3 seasons and that he can’t get us over the hump.

Im not convinced that we should get rid of Flip. Okay that might happen but who replaces him? i really like what he has done with the rotation this year. Will another coach continue that or just bury the bench again?

Thank God… someone gets it.

Also, I think we can definitely win it all this year. Winning a championship takes a lot of luck. Laughton is right, luck is a big part of it. I can pin point the 04 moment we got lucky. Tay’s block on Reggie Miller. If Miller dunks that we’re down 0-2 and it’s looking really bad.

How about when Artest lost it and drilled Rip in the face in Game 6 of the East Finals? I was in the house, we just didn’t have it that night. There was a ton of tension in the building. Indiana couldn’t put us away. Artest drilled Rip in the shnozaroo. Rip hit the 2 FTs, we got the ball back. Rasheed came from nowhere to slam home a miss. The place came apart. We clawed back, took the lead and the rest is history.

If those two moments doesn’t happen, we either lose in 6, or have to play at Indiana for Game 7.

This is all a long-winded version of saying that a lot is left to be decided. All the hand wringing and “OMG WE ARE TEH SUX!!!” is way, way too premature.

We can certainly do it this year. What if Ray Allen sprains an ankle? What if KG’s abs get busted again? What if LeBron comes down on somebody’s foot going for a rebound? What if Sheed goes down? Are we going to fire Flip because our most valuable player got hurt? We’re not winning a title without luck, Flip’s supposed incompetence or not.

… meaning Utep2Step.

No-Flip shouldn’t be fired for any of those reasons and I agree with almost everything you said. My point is, WE WILL NEVER WIN A RING UNDER FLIP. I agreed with the hiring at the time, I agree with the notion that there really isn’t another coach with better credentials available and I even agree that if there were another coach leading this team that it’s not a lock we would be any better. I do get it but I’m just tired of the same old thing with this crew and it all but points to another playoff let down. All of this is far from premature, it’s downright overdue. Games like last night are a microcasm of the last 3 seasons. We were a better team than Miami in ‘06 and a better team than Cleveland last year. So, which inferior team will we lose to this year? I’m not one for the ole “I told you so” but I may bring it up in June when Flip’s standing in the unemployment line.

Bravo Utep Bravo….

UTEP2STEP, I’m slowly moving towards your school of thought. I want to point out that in 06, nobody was beating Miami. I submit NBA Finals Game 6 as all the evidence I need to back that up. The NBA was desperate for DWade to win that title, and the playoffs were officiated accordingly. We had to go to 7 games to beat Miami in 05, it’s not like losing to them was like some huge upset or something. Disappointing, sure. We were a better team, but I really think circumstances conspired against us.

I think we were a sort of victim to that last season when Gibson burst on the scene and got every freaking call in the world. The Spurs proved that the best team won, so Cleveland was definitely beatable even with the LeBron officiating. The Cleveland series was definitely disgusting, we should have won, we were better. We were done in by an inability to adjust to them trapping Chauncey off of the pick and roll.

Anyway, my point is that the luck went against us the last 2 years. Let’s see what happens this season. If we can’t get to the Finals (unless we get legitimately robbed in game 7 or something), I’m going to move firmly into the “Fire Flip” camp. My point is to just wait and see what happens. There’s only been a couple of games like last night’s so far this year, which is a marked reduction from the previous 2 years. Let’s just wait it out before we all freak out.

I say Fire Flip… if we don’t make it to the Finals. And praise Flip until we do. Until then, the point is moot. The wonderful thing about making a prediction today is… no one prove you wrong.

can

I think it is fair to ask if the Pistons would even make the playoffs if they were playing in the West.

Very few easy teams night in and night out.

Golden State which is currently 8th seed has only 5 more losses than the Pistons.

In my opinion if all the teams in the NBA played a balanced schedule during the regular season the Pistons would rank around 10th best give or take, regardless of what the power rating say.

I’ll be the first to admit it if I’m wrong and I will always be watching to see how it all plays out. I love the NBA and the Stones. I make the point because it seems the “Pro-Flip stance” has become pretty fashionable lately. We’re all on the same bandwagon, so lets just call ‘em like we see ’em. It’s o.k to bash your coach,or anybody for that matter, if they’re accountable-It doesn’t make you any less of a fan. Go Pistons!

Mike-good point.

I honestly can’t believe all the nonsense I’ve been reading in the comments in these last two posts. Where did all this come from? From a loss to Philly in March, when we’ve already clinched the playoffs? This is insane…

You look at all the data we have, the hard facts, the standings, the win margins, the player career stats— and a bunch of you turn bitch in spite of it. You want to ignore all the data and act like jagoffs? Go get yourself a green jersey, they love that shit in Boston.

Mike Payne-You could coach this team to our currrent record, win margins,blah, blah, blah…….It’s not just one loss, go back and read all the posts and I repeat, it doesn’t make you any less of a fan. You a big Kwame supporter too?

UTEP: Which Kwame— Brown or Kilpatrick?

Funny story: I was at a Pistons/Bulls game in Chicago two seasons back. I left my seat during the third quarter with my girlfriend at the time to get beer and hit the bathroom. While walking the rotunda, I see Kwame Kilpatrick with his entourage heading toward the exits— donning FULL fur coats, mind you.

I pulled up my hand and pointed at Kwame, and said “Yo, Kwame.”

Kwame replied, and I quote: “What’s happening, player.”

UTEP: You’ve made some great points— I actually agree with much that you said above, but I got steamed at people like Mike, No Chance and Brad (whose opinion I always respect, even though I was thinking bad things about him reading his comments, sorry Brad).

So in short, UTEP, I think you’re comments above are wise- but I think much of the others are off their rocker.

I’ve never been on the Flip bandwagon, although I’ve had PLENTY nice to say about him this season. If anything is true of Flip Saunders— he has followed Joe Dumars’ 2007 post-season mandate TO A “T” this season. Sure, we got spoiled with Larry Brown, before he soiled our team. Let me ask you and others three questions:

1) Brown and Daly aside, which Pistons coach would you take over Flip?

2) What three NBA coaches would you take over Flip (excluding Jackson and Popov)?

3) Would you take Doc Rivers over Flip Saunders?

I’m not making any judgements until playoff time. Looking at previous trends, what they do in the regular season doesn’t matter as long as they aren’t losing. We won’t know what kind of team we really have until the playoffs. If they have another loss like they did to the Cavs last year, it’s time to revamp and make some changes. They need to learn how to get in the bonus late in games. Then when those ticky tack fouls come into play, you actually can score points of them. Problem is, they like shooting jump shots too much.

Answers to Mike Payne

1.) Can’t think of one.

2.) Nate McMillan, Jerry Sloan and Pat Riley.

3.) No. But I’d like to steal that Tom Thibadeau away from their staff.

Do I think Flip’s the greatest coach of all time? No. But he’s a very good one. And if Joe Dumars fired a back-to-back 50 game-winner in Rick Carlisle to upgrade to Larry Brown, I think he’d do the same to Flip if he saw someone decidedly better out there.

Bravo, QD, I put my faith in Joe and your comments are right on.

Flip is good. not great. Im sorry. We can win a ring with him but if we do it wont be because of him. i think the doc rivers comparisson is apt. Except for the fact that our team needs more coaching. This loss doesnt really mean squat. I mean I could care less if we purposefully lose a bunch more games. we’re going to the playoffs. we have one of the most talented teams in all of the NBA. If we played in the west we would still be in the playoffs. we play better against good teams. we have some of old guys who don’t really like to hustle as much as some young players do. We could really use another inside scoring presence. If we beat boston in the playoffs this year is a success and if we don’t its a failure. frankly boston is the media darling loaded with 3 guys who were carrying their teams and Rondo is devloping quick as heck. Boston has swagger and a hunger. If we are locked in come playoffs we can win this thing. when our boys are firing on all cylinders good luck trying to beat them. no matter who you play for. Its ok to critize elements of our team… its just because we want to see them win so bad.

PS whats up with this?
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080314/OPINION03/803140327

thoughts? inside info?

Philly may not be .500 but they’ve scored more points than their opponents this year and they’re 13-6 since February. It wasn’t the best game last night but I’m happier with the team then at any point since ’05.

My only quibble is recent days is how Juan Dixon is getting worked into the rotation at the expense of minutes for Stuckey/Afflalo. I know we need to see what Dixon can do but that’s not how it worked with Walter Herrmann and I think the Dixon acquisition has upset the chemistry and energy coming from the bench and it needs to be fixed. Not having a physically strong two-guard is my only concern with thi team so I get nervous seeing Dixon playing alongside Billups. What is that combination supposed to accomplish? Dixon is shooting well and playing hard but the same could be said of Flip Murray for a few games at a time and he was buried for months on the bench.

And if Lindsey Hunter is going to play his few minutes of lockdown D in the playoffs then I REALLY don’t understand what is going on with the backcourt minutes.

But all of these are quibbles and I’m very happy with the team and tip my cap to Philly for being a solid team.

OT: The Pistons are 28-1 (best in the NBA) when they score over 100 points and only 18-17 when they score under 100 points. It was a big suprise to me looking at the stats on the very cool hoopsstats.com. It makes sense, very talented starting 5 + deep bench = advantages for uptempo game. All things being equal, more possessions benefit the better team as the odds for a quirky outcome with fewer possessions get lower and lower.

at least they’re not the Lions!

Forgetting the Flip Saunders is our coach reason for a moment.

If you look at the Pistons game.

1. We have no good point shooters outside of Rip and maybe Hayes and they aren’t that great because all of Rip’s 3 pointers come only from the corner so he can be shut down on those easily. Hayes is too inconsistent in his three point shooting. Sheed can make threes but we are a lot better team when he plays down low and not on the outside chucking up threes. C-Bill is very inconsistent on this three ball shooting and overall is only mediocre. Dixon is a terrible overall player, couldn’t even get time at Toronto yet alone in the rotation.

No one else can shoot three’s at all

Every top team in the league has better three point shooters than us. I will trade 3 for 2 every time especially when your three point shooters shoot over 40% regularly which equates to an Effective FG% of over 60%!!!

2. We have no athleticism outside of AJ who needs more muscle, Maxiell who is a short #4 and Stuckey who is still finding his way.

We can not defend quick teams. We are old and slow. The way we keep the scores down is with Billups controlling our methodical offense. The offense that requires sharp crisp passing to find an open person for a spot up jump shot. This is evidenced by the fact that we always lose the free throw shooting attempts count in critical games.

We really have no one that can consistently break down the defense with their one on one play. C-Bill can do it against the smaller guards but he is too slow to do it against guards that can body him up and are quicker than him. Stuckey can break down the defense one on one but he is still struggling with his shooting. If he could shoot effectively up to even the elbow he could score 20 + a night easily, but his shooting just ain’t there at this point.

Basically we are old, slow and not athletic with the exception of a couple of our young guys.

I expect that we will most likely still win the first round by I expect us to go out in round #2 whether it is against Orlando, whose three point shooters we can’t defend, or the Cavs who once they get Z and Boobie back are my favorite to win it all this year.

I wouldn’t go as far as Mike, but I did want to question the “We’ve had the best team in the league for the last three years” line. Look, I love the Pistons. But how many other teams have won a championship, or even done as well as Detroit, with no — zero — starting all-stars? And Detroit can’t even get starting all-stars in the star-depleted Eastern Conference. Not having a superstar can hurt, especially in the playoffs, when certain players (Wade, LeBron) can be counted on not just to make superstar plays but to get superstar calls (a shame of the league, I know, but true).

OK, you say, but we’ve had the best starting five, right? Well, maybe. But in the past 2-3 years, Detroit has also had one of the worst benches in the NBA, and certainly the worst bench of the elite teams (I love Lindsey, but he’s a 10-minuites of hard defense guy, and I love ‘Dyess, but he went through some serious slumps). While I’ll take Jarvis Hayes over Delfino, The last consistently dependable backup for Tayshaun we’ve had was Corliss Williamson. And the starters, individually and in groups, could and often did have bad nights.

And does Detroit actually have a better starting five this year than Boston, or the new-look Lakers after Bynum gets back?

Also, some of Detroit’s 2003-05 domination was based on defense which included techniques that the NBA has since made illegal (not to mention the whole losing Ben Wallace thing).

Finally, I agree that it was no huge shame to lose to the Heat two years ago, especially after seeing what they did to Dallas in the finals. Miami was peaking at the right time. That’s what Detroit needs to do. I think they can. I’m not sure they will, but I think they can.

Quick P.S. I didn’t mean to say that Detroit has one of the worst benches in the NBA this year, rather the previous 2-3 years. But while our bench is improved and we have a lot of guys who can and have contributed, it’s still inconsistent. Hayes is an inconsistent shooter; Maxiell makes some dramatic plays and works admirably hard, but he doesn’t score a lot and is undersized at the PF position; Amir and Stuckey have lots of potential, but are very young and inexperienced, and can make lots of mistakes; Afflalo and Hermann don’t play much anymore, and who knows about Ratliff?

Well Mike, we play an “old”, “slow”, “un-athletic”, “poor outside shooting” team tonight. In spite of those knocks, that team is the defending NBA champion.

I’d rather lose to Philly in March and hit the gas in April than win 20 games in a row in Feb.-March (Houston) and not have anything left in the tank for the playoffs. Neither/both of those outcomes could happen but generaly the last 10 games before the playoffs are the most important for carrying momentum.

And Flip is going to be Flip. We know he’s not perfect. We know he’s not a good defensive coach. We know he got outcoached by Mike Brown last year. BUT, he’s our coach and he is good enought to win a championship with this team of vets. Whether we win this year or not is much more up to the players than the coach. Its about attitude and energy… the talent, skill, & knowledge is already there.

Jason- I think McCosky is overdoing it a bit but he does have a point. Rip is not playing as well as he used to and he tries to take things off the dribble too much.
I’d like to see Afflalo start at shooting guard and bring Rip off the bench ala Ginobli and the spurs. That way he’s the main weapon off the bench and maybe that’ll get him more focused. The starters can survive without Rip. Tayshaun always steps up when Rip is not there.
I wish Flip would try this for 5 games in a row or something. See what happens. If it doesn’t help then just put the starting 5 back together.

And also, why is Dixon playing? He had one good scoring game. He doesn’t seem to be bringing much to the table. He doesn’t bring defense like Joe has said he would. Remember Joe also said that Flip Murray was a good defender. Atleast Afflalo brings the D and is taller.

I hope this experimentation ends and Flip settles on a rotation one way or the other. Flip – make a decision and live with it – STOP FLIP FLOPPING

Mike Payne, here’s my completed list of coaches I’d rather have over Flip Saunders… in order.

current coaches: Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Jerry Sloan, Pat Riley, Don Nelson, Byron Scott, Nate McMillan, Rick Adelman, Mike Brown, Avery Johnson, Doc Rivers, Stan Van Gundy(yes, the porn star himself)

non-coaching coaches: Jeff Van Gundy, Scott Skiles, Michael Curry, Bill Laimbeer(off the top of my head)

not including: Larry Brown, Hubie Brown, Chuck Daly, Rudy Tomjanovich, or any college coaches.

The Spurs have 3 point shooters including guys like Bowen and Horry in addition to Manu.

Of the Spurs main three guys, two of them Parker and Manu are not old and slow. Tony Parker can still run circles around any of our guards and Manu is just, don’t we wish we had him.

Yes Mr. Fundamental is getting older, but he still spends most of his time on offense on the block and not outside the 3 point line.

Besides I still like the Cavs to win it all. A lot of people may not like Lebron or whatever, but there is no denying that he is a better player than last year and their supporting cast this year is definitely better than last year. They are very deep and beat you on the inside and outside. Big Ben even with his diminished skills can still be a force on defense.

I am not a Cavs fan but I like their chances this year. Having said that I think that Boston could definitely beat them year in the ECF.

Bottom line is that I don’t see where we have corrected any of the problems from our losses in the ECF the last two year and gotten
older in the process.

I just don’t think that having a second unit of Hayes, Ratliff, Maxiell, Dixon and Stuckey will get it done during playoff time.

Yes are starters minutes have been decreased this year, but they are older so it is like trying to swim upstream.

I hope I am wrong and that we get another ring, but at this point I just don’t see it happening.

Rip is shooting 45.5% on his tramp ball, tied for 7th in the NBA. Chauncey’s is 41%, good for 20th place. Tayshaun shoots 38.1% (50th). Jarvis is 37.1% (61st). The team has good 3-pt shooters. If Rip’s treys could be shut down so easily, um, wouldn’t that be reflected in the percentage?

No I did not forget about Amir when I mentioned our second unit. I just think that he has been replaced by Ratliff.

AJ has a lot of potential and has done some great things on the court for us this year in his limited time on the floor. However, as has become clear to most Pistons fans he needs to add some significant muscle to his frame, which hopefully his body will allow. Not everyone’s body is capable of bulking up regardless of how hard they try.

His problem with fouls, is I believe somewhat overstated. He plays a good aggressive defense and of course is still getting the rookie calls by officials.

As far as I know AJ has never fouled out of a game this year. People will argue that is because he only plays 10 minutes a game. Yes there is a lot of truth to that argument. However, if you go back and watch or re-watch the games that he was getting 20 plus minutes in, in a number of cases he picked up 2 or 3 early fouls but was able to stay on the court and be effective even with the 3 or 4 fouls without fouling out.

Some players can still be effective on defense even when they have 3 or more fouls on them in the first half, without fouling out. I believe that Amir is one of those players. Having said that of course it would be better for him not to get early fouls if we expect to transition him into the starting lineup over time.

“We’re missing something. A championship level team mows these teams down with little to no effort (reference Boston.) We just don’t have it this year.”

Come on now, you forgot the most important part of Brad’s quote:

“I’m with NoChance!!”

LMAO

You all are having this little group meeting to help console yourselves, this is hilarious. Talk about emotionally unstable. The DBB community is much like the Pistons, in that, they can’t keep their composure at the slightest sign of adversity or criticism.

Some of you folks have a lot of growing up to do…

My reaction to Brad’s list…

current coaches: Phil Jackson (yes), Gregg Popovich (yes), Jerry Sloan (yes), Pat Riley (yes), Don Nelson (are you f’n kidding me?), Byron Scott (maybe, not sure he can coach a non-running team, but coaches good D), Nate McMillan (yes), Rick Adelman (they the same person), Mike Brown (no offensive mind whatsoever), Avery Johnson (yes), Doc Rivers (no), Stan Van Gundy(maybe)

non-coaching coaches: Jeff Van Gundy (no offensive mind), Scott Skiles (go to blogabull for their reaction), Michael Curry (no experience), Bill Laimbeer(no)

not including: Larry Brown (yes), Hubie Brown (yes), Chuck Daly (yes), Rudy Tomjanovich (can’t coach, ask the Lakers), or any college coaches (no).

I would add Paul Silas to your list.

Mike – Detroit shoots a good 3 point percentage (9th in the NBA, .372 to .375 for SA and LAL) but they don’t take as many 3pt shots so the 3 point shooting isn’t as bad as you suggest.

My take – Detroit is the best team in the league when they take care of the basketball. When they don’t, they’re just good.

What’s wrong with Nellie? He was born in Muskegon, and he’s got a .571 lifetime winning %. I liked Byron Scott back when he was coaching NJ. I’m glad to see things panning out for him down in NO.

I can take or leave any of the second 2 lists. Curry’s an interesting candidate though. He has a great demeanor, and was President of the Players Association, where he mediated alot of disputes. He’s a leader even if he wasn’t that great of a player. If you’re more into getting a leader than an X’s and O’s guy(not sure where he falls in this category) he’s your man.

Nellie was born in Muskegon? Huh. Didn’t know that. Wasn’t born there myself, but I lived there for a while, and had a couple of siblings graduate from Muskegon High School.

Terry Porter anyone????

“My take – Detroit is the best team in the league when they take care of the basketball. When they don’t, they’re just good.”

Rasheed agrees 100%.

I agree with Matt and for now there is no real indication that they will not do so (take care of the basketball) during the playoffs

i wanted svg from the moment he was fired in miami. and i wanted every season after flip helped blow the ecfs. he was the right coaching choice. the year he got miami pre-shaq into the playoffs was a ridiculous coaching job. and he’s done a brilliant job this year in orlando. and let’s face facts, svg’s 2005 miami team had us on the ropes. if it weren’t for the wade injury, the heat may have been losing to the spurs in 7 instead of us. GREAT coach.

Here’s the problem as I see it:

1) The Sixers loss was troubling to me, because it showed me they don’t have enough focus (yes, focus, not energy) to win a ‘ship. I don’t think playing at a high level is something you can just switch on and off, you switch it off, you lose something. Note the Bulls and Cavs series from last year. I think they’re just a little too content playing in their own skin. You can put some, but not all of that on Flip.

2) As pointed out earlier, there is a problem with Rip, I’m not sure what it is. I suspect it has something to do with the home life and the new kid, but I’m speculating. He may well be playing elsewhere next year if he doesn’t get right.

3) Joe D has done a magnificent job of growing Flip into a competent NBA coach. Flip will be no Phil or Pop or Riles or (!) LB, however, but he’s better than most of the current coaches (Doc Rivers? Mike Brown? Please…). The problem Flip has is that the players just don’t respect him enough, and when his substitution patterns get goofy, as they have last couple of weeks in particular, it creates a lot of uncertainty and blurs roles. LB is a genius, but with the genius comes the madness, and it was the madness that got him fired. But also note that Joe D. put last years’ loss to the Cavs solely on the players, then showed confidence in them by not making any changes. I don’t see that happening this year if we don’t get past the second round.

I wouldn’t mind seeing an upgrade at coach, but who? My guess is that if a change were made, it would be Curry. He’s family, they wouldn’t have to pay him as much as an established coach, the players respect him, and again, he’s family. But I think Mr D. likes Flip, he’s big on loyalty, and I think he’s tired of paying coaches not to work. Especially the last one. So, if Flip gets to the ECF, which I think is close to a lock considering the Pistons are MOL locked into the #2 spot (and seem very comfortable there, considering Wednesday’s performance), he stays. But if he doesn’t…and you know something? I don’t believe a Flip-coached team could beat LeBron in a 7-game series (maybe we could sub in Chuck Daly if that happens lol).

3a) The Pistons have one of the better benches in the league, but it gets used randomly, it seems. I guarantee you Pop or Sloan would dish out the minutes correctly.

Yes, Nellie being born in Michigan made me crack up. It was won of the last things I expected to see when I wiki’ed him.

I only want to point out that Detroit, most likely, will have a new coach or extend Flip after this season. Nobody listens to a lame duck coach. Hmmmm, then again nobody listens to Flip now. (Ooooooooooh, that was below the belt, wasn’t it???)

Mike:

OK, you say you like the Cavs to win it all. Last night, the Cavs lost to the Wizards, a team very comparable to Philly. Does that mean the Cavs lack focus, aren’t mowing down the teams they should be mowing down, or otherwise have just demonstrated why they aren’t going to/can’t win it all?

More broadly, nobody on this group is in denial. I haven’t seen anybody here say, “we’re winning the ’ship for SURE this year!” Nobody thinks games like the Philly game are a good sign. But it isn’t the frickin’ end of the world.

Detroit has three tough games in a row, beginning tonight: Spurs, Hornets, and Cavs. How they do in these games will be more of an indication of how things are going. But again, the key will be peaking in the playoffs.

from truehoop
bruce bowen suspended and will not play tonight

    Bruce Bowen of the San Antonio Spurs has been suspended one game without pay for striking Chris Paul of the New Orleans Hornets with his leg, it was announced today by Stu Jackson, NBA Executive Vice President, Basketball Operations.

    The incident occurred following a foul call on Paul with 5:15 remaining in the third period of the Spurs’ 100-75 loss to the Hornets on Wednesday, March 12 at New Orleans Arena. Bowen will serve his suspension tonight when the Spurs visit the Detroit Pistons at The Palace of Auburn Hills.

Hmm, was Paul hurt enough that he won’t play against Detroit? Could be a two-fer!

bruce bowen is NOT a dirty player.

(smile cracking, laughter flowing, sarcasm in full bloom…)

who will rip NOT guard now? what’s the over/under on how many times gino-blows whips past hamilton to the tin?

MP:

I just noticed this, it’s late in the making. I think QD’s reaction was a solid answer, in terms of my own srs bsnss choices matching much with his.

The following . . . is for the lols.

1) Brown and Daly aside, which Pistons coach would you take over Flip?

• Dick Vitale. It’s awesome, baby!

2) What three NBA coaches would you take over Flip (excluding Jackson and Popov)?

• I wanted Phil Jackson when Larry left. Excluding those two:

McMillan, Adelman, Mo Cheeks.

For lols: any former Piston player, especially newbs . . . Michael Curry. Uncle Cliffy Robinson. Darvin Ham. Christian Laettner. Dale Davis. Let’s get that overrated Avery Johnson deal going, yeah!

3) Would you take Doc Rivers over Flip Saunders?

No. But yes, if you wanted a lot of D’Antoni face-melters, jaw-droppers, but not much better for adjustments, player matchups, clutch play diagrams, respect . . . add Scott Skiles to this list of lol.

From TrueHoop, a userid of “dantrevino” . . . re: Bruce Bowen

“What a bunch of hypocrites NBA fans are.

When Raja Bell clotheslines Kobe, Suns fans cheer, Laker fans scream. When Horry bumps Nash, Suns fans whine. Kobe has a very clear history of throwing elbows, yet Laker fans see this as somehow ‘better’ than what Bell did to him.

If you’re a Jazz fan, you loved Malone’s dirty play. If you’re a Pistons fan, you loved Laimbeer’s dirty play. If you are a Celtics fan, you loved Ainge and McHale’s dirty play.

Why don’t you all admit that if Bowen was on your team you would love him. Don’t deny it. There is no logic here, just a bunch of whining homers"

I emphatically agree.

The top shooting 3 point teams in the league by percentage are

Toronto
New Orleans
Boston
Phoenix
Orlando
Los Angeles Lakers
San Antonio
Detroit

Cleveland is 11th but Pavlovic and Gibson have missed most of the year and is a better shooting 3 point team than us when Pavlovic and Gibson are playing.

So in the East we are worst of the top 4 teams
We are behind the 4 of the top 6 teams in the West. Only Houston and Utah are behind us of the top 6 and neither one of those two are likely to make it to the Finals

So of the top 8 contenders for the NBA Finals we are the worst 3 point shooting team.

The only serious contenders for the NBA Finals that we are better at shooting 3 point shots are Dallas and Utah if you consider Utah as a serious contender and we haven’t beaten Utah in years.

Bruce Bowen is good, but I like the equally annoying James Posey for his rebounding and slightly more consistent offense. He’s also fond of whipping up on people.

Mike, Detroit is 8th on your list— but behind #6 and #7 (tied) by just .3%

Los Angeles Lakers 37.5%
San Antonio 37.5%
Detroit 37.2%

Wow, that is a colossal margin. We should give up.

uh, isn’t being a fan of any team being a “homer”? does your friend, deney terrio, just love everybody, sauce? f bruce bowen. hope he enjoys starting his new consecutive games streak tomorrow in philly.