Where Isiah is still employed happens

Nice- first rebound, first dunk. Welcome home, Theo.

The Rattler! THEEEEOOOO!

Ratliff doesn’t quite have the range (that he used to?).

This is a statement game for Theo Ratliff.

This could become a very long game…I’m already missing Rasheed. :(

You see, Theo, ya hafta play defense to stay on the floor in this league, you see, Theo.

Wow, that’s a quick Amir sighting!

AMIR JOHNSON!

I think Mike Breen is drooling over Amir. Amir lulled Lee into a false sense of security and then swatsy daisy.

David Lee gets two BAs a game regardless, so I kinda like the Lee-Johnson match up.

Glad Max didn’t miss that dunk!

I was really hoping Walt Frazier would have left his dictionary at home. Shut up, man.

Amir Johnson just got all Shasta McNasty on Jared Jeffries’ jumper.

wow what is Balkman thinking?

M Payne – Frazier’s commentary sounds a bit like Mahorns, but without the funny phrases, like “No free chili!” and, “Can’t you just spare one rib?”

Renaldo is gonna win this game for US.

I think the Knicks are the only team in the NBA that the refs have less respect for than us.

I really hope we find a way to keep Juan Dixon on our team next season.

We get bad calls partly because we argue every other call, but the Knicks simply have one of the most completely unlikeable casts around.

loving the commentary after listening to the boston celtics announcers =)

lack of intensity from the starters is KILLING us

RIP IS GONE?!

Apparently Rip wanted to remind us that we argue every other call. I don’t even know what he was arguing about there.

okay rip’s my fav player but he and chauncey are playing like trash i want stuckey and juan dixon tay amir and j-max

sigh

if you’re going to continue to badger the ref at least get up in his face when he throws you out of the game to make it look like you actually care that you got thrown out… that’s the reason I don’t like Rip. I hope his skinny ass is gone in the off-season

Anyone get the feeling we’re gonna lose this game?

I just realized what the title of this post is. Kudos, Matt. I almost spit beer through my nose.

Question for LB— since we’ve all been doing these “back and forths” between players. If you had to keep one player, who would you keep: Dixon or Afflalo?

oh and Walt Frazier sucks as a color man

I have to agree with LawyerBoy, we gotta learn when to argue and when to let it go.

pistons look terrible right now, chaunce slows the game down way too much

if the Knicks don’t re-sign Nate Robinson, he will be relegated to D League status… I can’t see anyone signing that pompous little asshole

P_P: You always say that!

My answer is no, but I have the feeling the second half will be really plodding and sloppy. BTW, do we just throw Amir on the biggest monster out there or what? Garnett last game, and Curry’s like, 500 pounds.

Holy sh!t Boney, are you serious? His mouth aside, he’s having a career year, and I can think of very few SG’s I’d want in his place.

It felt like it was going to be a long game but after the bench started kicking some tail I was relieved a bit. Now it seems the starters are screwing everything up, ironic isn’t it?

What can I say keegan, when I feel uneasy watching a game I come here hoping to be reassured lol

why not switch the amir-maxy matchup

Mike Payne, you can’t be serious

(re: above, I’m talking about Rip, not Robinson)

You’re in the WRONG place for reassurance, bro.

“Go get ‘em Amir! Don’t be afraid to get physical! Make sure to box him out!”

Matt Millen’s worse. Bite me, Ryan Parker.

Mike Payne, seriously… I seriously think one of the main reasons why this Detroit team hasn’t won more than 1 ring is because our shooting guard can’t create his own shot, unlike other teams. Our 2 guard relies on screens to get off a mid-range jumper.. even Ray Allen drives to the rack and will slam it in your face, that’s something Rip could never do

flip should keep stuckey instead of chaunce out there

lol@ hoping Rip goes. Why would you trade a 3-time All-Star? Its not like SGs of his calliber are just out there. smh….

wtf, I maximize the Knicks game screen and I see little ass boys dancing and playing the drums

Rip was getting mugged on that play. He had a right to bitch. I was watching him the whole time because I knew Chauncey was waiting for him to spring free. Then Chauncey had to hoist a ridiculous three because of it.

I like what I see from Juan Dixon. He’s a better defender than I thought he’d be. And since Stuckey’s tall enough to guard SGs, Dixon can guard the PGs. And then they can be dual combo guards on offense. I like Afflalo, but I think having one more vet on the second unit (esp. one that can score) is a good thing.

Ratliff definitely looks like an upgrade over Brezec. Joe D’s built a competitive roster, it’s up to the boys to execute.

Boney, if we didnt have rip we wouldnt have any consistent offense if tay, sheed, and chaunce shut down like they did last year in the playoffs, who are we gonna have to carry us?

Prophecy, he’s not exactly “untouchable”.. trade him when his value is high… he’s not exactly a guy that will come back to torch you by hanging 50 on you. his ceiling has been reached

that’s an atrocious outfit by Frazier

Frazier doesn’t even know what he’s talking about.. no wonder the knicks suck, they can’t even get a guy better than Heinsohn

At least Frazier will admit to a foul

Okay Boney who do you think exactly we can get for Rip straight up then? Knowing hes normally one of our most consistent shooters as well.

Just for the record, Rip is my favorite player on the Stones (so, by default, in the entire NBA) so I’m probably biased. Boney raises a legitimate concern about Rip’s attitude in my opinion, but as far as casting him off, I would NEVER support that this offseason. Boney, I do think you’re stretching on Ray Allen. He really only shoots jumpshots. For a shooting guard, that’s not the end of the world. Michael Redd only shoots jump shots too. That’s not the best criticism of Rip. I’d stick to the fact that he’s apparently quite emotionally unstable on the court.

MP: If you’re making me pick: I go with Dixon. I don’t want to pick one, but I’ve always really liked Juan Dixon, and I like him even more when I see him badgering the hell out of other PGs while he’s playing defense in a Pistons jersey.

If we had concerns about attitude Sheed would have been dealt with in the offseason following the Game 6 meltdown as some suspected.

On a side note, call me crazy but I kinda wish we had Stuckey out there to start the 3rd for Rip.

I think it would be hard to replace Rip, there is not alot of players who can shoot the ball as well as he can.

I guess from the looks of the halftime report, Mike Breen is not the one calling this game with Frazier (who is really, really bad, and immeasurably boring). Whoever it is, has a man crush on Amir Johnson unlike Heinsohn who thought “young man” was an appropriate name for Amir. Walt Frazier has now used the word “aroused” twice in this broadcast. That’s not a mark of a strong color commentator.

P_P: Doesn’t sound crazy at all to me. Stuckey had a very good first half.

I think it’s time for Rip to go, seriously. I’d rather have the SG get 10ppg and have more of the offense flow through Sheed, Billups and Tay. All 3 are more effective than the 4 of them together. Rip doesn’t exactly spread the floor, no matter what his 3 point percentage is.

I hope nate robinson tries to dunk it on Maxiell.. Max might just eat him, he’s small… like a baby

See a game like this is the perfect chance to let Stuckey play at the SG. I know some might say hes undersized but he is a spark plug. I mean he has improved a bit the last month in the PG position but that he still looks patchy out there.

I like Ratliff… I’ve liked him since Detroit drafted him and I asked my Dad “who the hell is this guy?”

why the hell do these guys wear those arm sleeves

God damn, play defense lol

We need Prince to have games like this in the playoffs. If he shoots 64% from the field in a playoff game, then we will most assuredly win.

THEO! That block was like the jazz, ya see.

Or was it like the pudding pop?

Get it together Detroit lol

god, I really dislike all of the Knicks players…. all of them

Did I see that right? Eddy Curry had Jason Maxiell in a headlock?

Who draft Balkman? Was it Zeke? Gaddamn, he is terrible. How do you travel with that much real estate? And two charges in a row?

*drafted.

Zeke drafted Balkman, in the 1st round

I kinda knew that, but I draw attention to it, to only heap more disgrace on our beloved Zeke.

I don’t even know Zeke is “beloved” anymore in Detroit. He’s kind of like the family member that’s always in jail… yeah he’s a member of the team or family, but noone really wants to admit it

lol Rodney

the knicks come with more beef… Malik Rose and his 300lb self comes on the court, to lineup with Eddy Curry

The fact he is like the family member who’s always in jail is probably why he is beloved in Detroit to be honest….

You think it burns Isiah to see Dumars have success while his teams constantly suck?

Zeke was an unbelievable player, but he’s always been a revolting human being. I respect what he did on the court, but I don’t think he gets love from the Detroit community anymore (he doesn’t get my love in LA) cuz he’s such a scumbag.

Zeke is the Flava Flav to Joe D’s Chuck D.

maybe Isiah could be an intern in Detroit’s front office this summer… he could learn a few things

Sauce doesn’t like it when Amir johnson drives the lane after getting the pass at the 3 point line

Rob G
Mar 7th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Zeke is the Flava Flav to Joe D’s Chuck D.

So does that make Lambier Professor Griff (outspoken almos militant) and Rodman Terminator X? (Cause I could see Dennis starting an Ostrich Farm too)

I like it. It took a nation of Bulls to hold us back.

Jarred Jefferies lives?

So where does Scott Hastings fit into the S1Ws?

I just realized that the Knicks are so bad, so irrelevant to me, that they are the only team of which I cannot tell you who plays what position. I thought Balkman was a forward – I guess he’s a guard? Rose is a big? I knew Robinson was just lilliputian, but the rest of the Knicks are so lame I don’t know nor care what they do.

Thats the Eddy Curry I know and laugh at

Eat NY Babies

Rob G
Mar 7th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
I just realized that the Knicks are so bad, so irrelevant to me, that they are the only team of which I cannot tell you who plays what position. I thought Balkman was a forward – I guess he’s a guard? Rose is a big? I knew Robinson was just lilliputian, but the rest of the Knicks are so lame I don’t know nor care what they do.

Actually I think Balkman is a foward, but that just puts the whole Knicks franchise into perspective…

Exactly – the Knicks are the place where basketball goes to die.

David Lee, blocked AGAIN. That makes four.

I believe that is David Lee’s tribute to Charles Smith……

I think Tayshaun is making Boney’s case – any time Rip is out, Tay just blows up. He’s the man.

But thats always been this team;s thing. When one guy struggles, someone else picks it up

Tayshaun can create his own shot, unlike Rip

wow. way too close. but a win is a win, i guess. definitely can’t get worked up over this. hopefully the pistons will get out of this 2 game funk.

Should have never been this close….never

2 game funk? Try 4. The collapse against Utah, the 41 allowed to Seattle, Boston and then today.

Thanks Isiah!

Prophecy, I don’t know if you noticed— but Rasheed didn’t play, and Rip was ejected in the 2nd. Sure, it wasn’t a pretty win, but I’ll take it.

Well, 2-2 in a period with a road trip, an ankle sprain, a snowstorm, an ejection, and working in a new backup center and SG ain’t bad, y’all. Calm blue ocean.

Tay could average 20ppg on this team with a SG that knows his role and only needs 10 to be happy

Hahahaha— calm blue ocean. Couldn’t agree more, Roberto Gee.

I’m out for the night, happy Friday in Pistons land.

Tight win, but look at the box score and realize that with no Sheed, with only 16 minutes from Rip, no starters over 35, and with a LOT of young burn, there’s not too much to be unhappy about methinks.

Other than: FREE ARRON!

I think we might wait a year to “free Arron.” He’s gonna get bounced in favor of Dixon and Hunter – not a bad thing. Spellcheck is gonna be getting red squiggles in DBB and other blogs for many a year.

Well, have you all checked the remaining schedule? Pistons play 13 of the last 20 at home with a lot of bad teams coming in too. Should be able to go 15-5 or 16-4 the rest of the way.

15 more wins means a 60 win season! I picked the boys to get 48 in our preseason pool (mostly in light of the mandate to work in the rooks, and also cuz the more realistic records were taken.) 60 is fantastic, considering everything else that’s developed this season.

I’ll say it again – Flip deserves a lot of credit.

I agree that Flip and Joe will probably be happy to keep Arron on ice this year. He’ll have a long career, and I’ll be happy for it to be as a Piston.

One of my favorite moments this season was watching Arron not back down from KG, even bump him back, during the first Celtics game.

“even Ray Allen drives to the rack and will slam it in your face, that’s something Rip could never do”

No, Allen doesn’t. Don’t know where you got that. Both players shoot about 20% of their shots from close range.

“Tay could average 20ppg on this team with a SG that knows his role and only needs 10 to be happy”

He would need more shots than Rip to do it, so why is this a better scenario. Only one team has won a championship in the last 22 years with the type of SG your describe.

I thought that Flip’s substitution patterns were really strange tonight. He took Stuckey out in the 2nd and the 4th when he was running the offense incredibly well.

The same was true with Amir. I realize that Flip wanted to work Theo Ratliff in, but with sheed and rip out, and McDyess in foul trouble, why not work in Hermann?

Incredibly frustrating…

kevin s.,

While the offense goes stagnant 1 out of 3 games while it’s SG runs around or doesn’t run around to try and get open to shoot a mid range jumper while also never putting his defender in foul trouble by not being able to create off the dribble may make you happy or prove your statement… I’d rather have a SF that is an active part of the offense, a SF that can actually pass the ball instead of getting called for palming or a travel, a SF that is always productive when Hamilton is not playing, a SF that can actually dribble the ball without kicking it out of bounds…

I appreciate his effort, but if this team doesn’t win this year… it’s time to call it a day with him and move forward with Chauncey because of his contract and Tay because of his relative youth and the young guys on the bench.

Wow, Flip is awesome. Starts a guy who’s been here 1 day over guys that have worked their balls off and proven they can play for the last 2+ years. All I gotta say is that’d I’d be pissed if I was Amir or Maxiell. Flip is a worse coach than I thought… What better excuse to see unproven talent than a Sheed injury. I REEEEEEAAAAALLY think Flip will lose us the EC Championship. Really. I mean REALLY REALLY!!

For once, Boney, as foolishly hardheaded as he can be at times, I agree with Kevin S. I think you’re barking up the wrong tree with your assessment of Rip.

Boney, looking at the last few championships, who would you prefer at the 2 spot?

IN defense of RIP – please don’t ignore his defense when you rip on him

Wow!!! Fire Flip? You guys are scaring me. I don’t claim to be the President of the Flip fan club but lets assess the season. 1. We’ll win about 60 games and if not for Bostons freakishly great record this year, we would be battling for best record in the league. Do you realize 60 wins (if we get it, chances look good though) is only 4 wins off the franchise record of 2 seasons ago when we all bet our houses in Vegas cause we were certain to win a ‘Ship. 2. The bench and young guys have been developed. We begged for Amir and finally got it. He has worked in 2 rookies and the “Young Man” :-) into the rotation. The guy goes 10 deep, hell 11 on occasion. 3. The starters minutes are down to around 30-35 mins each. If we play like we did in Boston and get bounced in the playoffs, I’m blaming that shit on the players this time around. They can’t claim to be out of gas like last year. Coaching has its place in pro ball, but Flip doesn’t shoot, pass, defend or rebound. Once again, I am NOT the president of the Flip Saunders fan club but unless he gets caught up in a text messaging sex scandal with Joe D’s wife, leave the man alone for now. Jesus H. Christ my fellow Piston lovers. What the hell do you want from the man? Ok, I concede. He hasn’t found a cure for Aids or Cancer yet, so maybe we should fire him. We all get emotional and maybe a little irrational at times after losses. I was pissed on this board after the Boston loss. But when you claim the sky is falling after a good win with 2 starters out and your young bench really chiping in on the win, that’s a sad day. Is the sun ever allowed to shine my brotha’s???? :-(

E-Double nice post – I also hate it when after a “bad” game or loss all the naysayers appear.

Wow, we’re getting more people on the “Get off Flip’s back” bandwagon. Even if you don’t like him, trust in JoeD.

By the way, great job Joe in rounding out the roster…

Dixon/Hermann/Ratliff > Murray/Dupree/Nazr

I’m gonna start www.flipisntreallythatbadacoachsogivetheguysomecredit.com

I’d take last year’s Michael Finley over him if it meant more ball movement and Tayshaun gets more involved in the offense rather than being relegated to pick up scraps… Sheed could easily put up 18 a night, Tayshaun could put up 18, and Finley could put up 12 with the guys on our bench picking up the rest..

Tayshaun is more effective on D if he’s having a good game on O.

oh and by the way…. if this stupid argument isn’t enough to keep us all heated up… check out what I found:

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/42591#tr_42591-comments_pages

and no, my comment doesn’t mean I’d take Finley OVER Hamilton… it means that if I had my druthers, Tayshaun, Sheed and Billups would be the main points of emphasis on offense and Finley or a guy like Finley would feed off of their double teams…

My problem with Rip is that no matter how many points he scores, he does not put his man in foul trouble, and usually it’s the SG that is the primary offensive weapon on the opposing team. If he could do that, then it would cause a mismatch between him and Tay and the offense would be even more difficult to stop

Boney, I didn’t look at the stats, but didn’t Rip have a lot of assists in the first quarter last night. Isn’t that indicative of ball movement?

And it’s not just Rip’s movement, it’s also the picks. It’s about making the defense work. Making the screener’s man jump out on Rip, so Sheed and Dyess can pop or Maxiell can roll to the basket. I rather have Sheed down low setting picks for Rip than up at the top doing pick and roll with Chauncey and shooting threes.

Also, there’s a lot less ball movement when Tay backs down his man for fifteen seconds.

We won a Championship with the offense that LB designed with these players (minus Ben, plus Dyess) and Rip’s movement as the focal point.

Brad, would you rather have our precious Amir Johnson get broken in two by Eddy Curry? Or at the very least foul out in six minutes of play? That’s what would have happened if Flip didn’t start Theo. That was some defense Theo played in the 4th Quarter.

E-Double: Welcome to our (Me, QD, Rob G, IsraeliPiston, plus sorry to whoever I left out) darkside.

Uh Boney, there’s so much wrong with what you said, allow me some time here. “Ray Allen” and “drive to the hoop” should never be in the same sentence unless the word “doesn’t” joins those two phrases together. I give a hat tip to Kevin S. (whom I NEVER agree with) for pointing that our earlier in the thread. He’s right, plain and simple.

Also Boney, you’re totally hyping up Tay as some ridiculous offensive stud (as you did in this game where you got ill-advised kudos from Rob G.) while ignoring the fact he goes ICE cold from the field in anywhere from 1 to every 3-5 games. Rip is generally the model of FG% and scoring production consistency. Yes, he has a scoring ceiling, but if he plays in a game he can be counted on to get the job done on both sides because of his superior conditioning. I’ll take that anyday. And clearly you have a very warped perception in talking about Tay playing better D & O in concert. I mean, I suppose it’s true that when his defensive assignment sucks he plays good O, but that’s the only time he gets both done together.

Look at Tay’s offensive production v. defense production when we’ve played Orlando, the Nets and the Celtics this season. When Tay plays a scoring SF (as in Pierce, Turkoglu, Jefferson, etc.), his offense almost always suffers greatly cuz he busts his ass on D and keeps them to their average or below (only Turkoglu averaged .5 ppg above his season average on Tay of those 3, the rest were held solidly below their season average this year against us). Tay doesn’t have enough in the tank to play effective O when he works hard on D. You can basically count on him going absent on O if his defensive assignment is scoring around 20/ppg.

And on that note Boney, last time I checked, Wilson Chandler (who I think started at SF last night, cuz Lee was probably the PF) or Q. Richardson (who usually starts at SF for the Knicks) ain’t scoring nothing to make Tay work on D. Sorry Boney (and to a lesser extent Rob G), the Knicks game is no indicator on defensive/offensive production from Tay.

Onto Rip, who may not put his man in foul trouble, but I wouldn’t really make him the focal point of a Pistons team-wide problem. Rip is tied for 3rd on the team in FTA/game, having as many as Tay. Sheed has one less attempt than them. Dice has less than Sheed and Stuckey too. And not so surprisingly, Maxiell off the bench, is 2nd behind Chauncey who blows out anyone on the Pistons in FTA/game. Long story short, we are VERY average in getting to the line. Cut and dry, you want to make it a problem? Blame the team (outside of Chauncey and Max), don’t single out Rip.

In REALITY Boney, if you look at FTA/game leaders in the NBA (I don’t think anyone tracks “fouls drawn”, so this is the best indicator we have) it’s fairly evenly dispersed between SGs (and SG-style players like: Arenas, LeBron, Carmelo, etc.) and post guys. Most of the leaders, also coincidentally play for good teams too (Howard, LeBron and AI are 1,2,3). I would say this proves that it’s not like it is Rip’s “responsibility” and that it is instead just some wild proclamation you’ve made that’s lacking in evidence.

And QD, as always, is right when he points out Rip makes his counterpart work hard on D. Did I not just mention (with statistical evidence) how much of an effect it has on Tay? It can have an effect on plenty of players; it is an asset. And IsraeliPiston is right when talking about Rip’s D also a huge part of what makes him so worthwhile.

I think I’ve said enough, I know I’m pretty exhausted after this post. Maybe I’ll go take a nap. A mea culpa would be nice Boney, but address it to Rip, not me.

LB, as usual, I heartily agree. Although I’m not going to ask for a seat on the Flip wagon, I’ll remain “guardedly optimistic” until I see my boys with a championship trophy. I love what the guy has done this season— he’s completely exceeded my expectations. Its just that my expectations are moderate at best: “play the bench”.

Back to Rip, his consistency and his D are unreal. I still cannot think of another SG in our conference, let alone the league, that i’d put in his place. Only two come to mind that I’d consider: Monta Ellis and Kevin Martin. Ellis can’t shoot the three ball though.

Even if you gave me the choice to pick between Hamilton and either of those two, I couldn’t turn my back on Hamilton easily. He’s ingrained in Detroit’s team, playbook and image.

Would anyone else take Ellis or Martin for Rip? (aside from Boney, that is, I already know your answer)

I’d strongly consider Martin. I’m a fan of his.

I feel like I’m watching a tennis match, and I love it. Rip, Tay, Rip, Tay.

Here’s my two cents:

Any criticism or praise you make of an individual player needs be tempered by an acknowledgment that what the Pistons are, above all else, is a team that relies on a contribution from each player. These are players who have proven to be incredibly unselfish over the past five years. Any of these guys, on an average team, would be a second option at worst. In Detroit, they do it like the sandbox: they share. But that means the team must function as a whole in order to work correctly. So they have these stretches where shit goes wrong. They play well, everyone’s happy and we’re going to win championships (see Phoenix game comments). Things get a little out of whack, and even though it might be a small problem, they look awful, can’t shoot, pass the ball or rebound for a game or two. Then we should blow the team up while we still can and start rebuilding. The unfortunate thing is that the dry spells have come at the wrong times for Detroit (and one can argue that Flip’s coaching factors in— dude can’t seem to make the needed adjustments in crunch time, and I don’t know if anyone thinks that he can be a motivational-type coach).

The truth is somewhere in the middle. The Pistons are a good team that might have been, and might still be, great. But championships take luck, too. If it were just talent, then the Lakers would have beaten us in ‘04 and we would have beaten Cleveland last year before losing to the Spurs. It’s not just the better team, though. It’s who’s (everybody together now, you know the cliche) hot at the right time.

Let’s keep our fingers crossed. Oh, and a KG injury wouldn’t hurt (not that I wish that on the guy, but…)

I think PDXPistonsFan settled the debate once and for all. The whole team needs to bring it or the offense doesn’t work.

By the way, why is Portland referred to as PDX?

LawyerBoy, I don’t owe you or Rip anything. I feel the way I do, I put it in a comment and you chose to argue it. All you really did was regurgitate comments from others and their “in the box” thinking that has been satisfied with seeing this team’s offense run stagnant in the postseason ever since 04. I don’t know what Ray Allen you’ve been watching all year, or for the last few years. He does take the ball to the rack, and he has flushed it in dude’s grills. I’m not saying he does it all the time, i said he can do it and does it. Rip can’t take a guy to the hole and flush it for an And-1. I’ll offer a mea culpa on this entire convo if he does that. The man can barely dunk, and he’s 6’7

This team would be better off with a guy that can create his own shot, and go to the free throw line. I realize the offense is a series of screens and picks to get Rip open, I’m not an idiot. I know the reason they run him like that is to tire out the guy who’s checking him.

Pardon my outside the box line of thought… perhaps I’m the only one who isn’t satisfied with 7 consecutive 50 win seasons and conference finals appearances. I didn’t realize posting a different thought process could ever generate some 7 paragraph ramblefest of trying to prove things that I already know.

MikePayne, I wouldn’t take Monta Ellis over Rip… I might take Kevin Martin though.

Boney, you just posted your own 4 paragraph ramblefest of nothing. Thinking outside the box? Not satisfied with 7 consecutive 50 win seasons? You sound as silly as Tom Cruise. You just spouted off a bunch of unsubstantiated opinions, void of fact, that aren’t even remotely shared by the DBB community. You need to see Tay and Rip for what they are on THIS team. And the most consistent guy on the team is Rip Hamilton. It’s not like “as he goes on offense, the team goes” as it seems to be more so with Tay. Rip always shows up on both ends, win or loss. He’s got to be doing something right.

On the subject MP brought up of Monta Ellis/Kevin Martin … I think I would probably grab Kevin Martin over Rip with the youth factor being the determining factor, as without it, I’d stick with Rip. Of the three, Rip is the consummate teammate who can score and pass. He’s a great defender too (though I think Ellis might be as good though shorter), and he makes his free throws. Martin, to me, is clearly the most dynamic scorer (with Ellis behind him then Rip). He’s not the type of guy you want with the ball in his hands if he’s not going to try to put it up though. Martin is an okay defender and he too makes his FTs. Ellis doesn’t make his FTs, but he does have an edge over Rip in his varied scoring skills and higher “big game scoring total” ceiling. Monta is also the smallest of the three in height by a lot. I think a lot of our defense is about length. Golden State doesn’t seem to play much grind-it-out defense so here works better there. I like the new K-Mart, but I’d also be sad to see Rip go.

Boney, “perhaps I’m the only one who isn’t satisfied with”… If you haven’t read the comments on DBB in late May and early June of the last few years, NO— you’re not the only one who isn’t satisfied. In fact, none of us are satisfied. Where we all seem to differ on is where to point the finger of blame.

“I don’t owe you or Rip anything”

You owe Rip a championship.

“I don’t know what Ray Allen you’ve been watching all year.”

The one who takes jump shots… and may get to the rack once more per game than rip per season, at best.

“I didn’t realize posting a different thought process could ever generate some 7 paragraph ramblefest of trying to prove things that I already know.”

We love you Boney, you’re a core member of this community, your opinion is gold here. Maybe your idea isn’t crazy here, it might hold a little water. The issue is that the rest of us aren’t ready to sell Rip upstream for the failings that can’t be placed on his shoulders. He IS the Pistons, just as much as Chauncey, and moreso than anyone else not in our starting backcourt. Essentially, what you’re calling for is sacrilege to most of us.

For the record, I think Kevin Martin is a great player, but I kind of want to punch him in the crotch. He could never be a “bad boy” in the traditional sense… a little too princess for our squad.

Sounds like they’re dealing with this very issue at Need4Sheed – check out the latest podcast…

Quick Darshan asked, probably a few days ago now, why PDX is the nickname for Portland. I think it’s just the airport code. Plus, we’ve got cooler nicknames like Stumptown and Bridgetown and Rip City.