That offense isn’t in Phoenix any more.

I almost fell out of my chair laughing at the thought of one of these guys thinking that Eddy Curry would be a good fit in Detroit

I was laughing last year when everyone kept pushing Zach Randolph. Then I got angry because they were serious.

I have resigned myself to the fact that the least intelligent people on earth follow this sport.

I’m with you, Sauce. I’m proud of the fact that DBB has some very, VERY smart readers like yourself, Boney (save for your Rip obsession, buddy!), Garrett, Kevin S., LawyerBoy, Quick Darshan, Q Dog, Jack Dutch, Rob G, Other Matt and of course, Matt Watson. However, some of the comments here on DBB by one-timers, lurkers and a couple regulars give me a daily facepalm. I guess you take the bad with the good, fortunately the good on here is so damn great that the bad is insignificant (except after losses when the boohoos come out of the woodwork).

I agree with Dana from that article on Okafor. I thought about that right after the season closed, figuring Sheed would be happy with Daddy Brown and we’d get a good center. Notice I said “good”, not “great”, as Okafor brings as many question marks as he does rebounds.

Okafor makes me nervous because he disappears frequently, even when physically healthy. Tack on the fact that he wants big money, and sirens are blaring all over this guy. Turning down 13.5 million a year on average? Emeka Okafor!? At least he and his agent have unwavering faith in his upside.

Boney, that was me that mentioned Eddy Curry. My point was that Rasheed’s expiring contract is only attractive to a team that wants to get rid of a bad contract so as a straight up trade, Eddy Curry is the best you can do.

I know it wasn’t you QD, but I have seen legit Eddy Curry proposals over on MLive and the DetNews boards. These people actually do exist.

Well, Curry is a force in the post and it would be interesting to see how well out perimeter players would fare with him.

I know he’s an awful defensive player and can’t pass out of a double team and generally not someone to build a team around but with his contract at only $9.7mil, he’d be paid less than Chauncey and Rip, and only slightly more than Tay. He might be a good compliment to Amir, Maxiell and Samb.

It may not be a good idea, but I don’t think it’s a horrible one.

Would you do Sheed/Amir for Elton Brand?

Don’t put me in that position.
See, those are the trades I fear. I even quake at Samb being thrown in on something. Last year, an unnamed team offered their starting point guard for his rights, and the Pistons didn’t bite, so he might have some speculation value for a lesser team that might throw him into the fire.
Based on Joe singing Amir’s praises regularly, I couldn’t do it. The potential is off the charts. Even if he only serves as a Ben Wallace-figure who can make free throws, through his rebounding and shot-blocking he could embody the hard-working, all-out hustling mindset that Joe wants the team to recapture.
That is my Christmas wish this year.

Shudders at the thought of Eddie Curry in Pistons blue

Keep it away, kill it with fire!

I’m still hoping for Biedrins, although it’d be tough to work out the money. I talked to Lawyer Boy today who had two trade ideas I really liked, but I won’t burst his bubble, but let him share those on his own at some point.

I want to make a trade for a good C and potentially a backup at SF/SG. We can get that with Rasheed and picks or Sheed and Afflalo, in some cases Sheed alone. Charlotte has potential, as I mentioned about Okafor above. Biedrins would be on my list. There are a few others, but LB has the details on those…

I’d rather entertain offers for Billups before Rasheed, since I don’t think a team short of the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, or a handful of almost=theres would be willing to give us anything less than Theo Ratliffs and Adonal Foyles in exchange for Rasheed.

All the guys have talent. We may not see a deal until the trade deadline.

Dave Dial on MLive was throwing some crap against the wall about us trading for a lottery pick. I know a lot of teams are looking to deal, and that Beasley might slip to #3, so it’s a really neat-o scenario, but I don’t know what we’d have to offer them. I agree with the article’s assessment that Chauncey would probably be the big chip, but I’d only believe it when I saw it.

MP is right, as well. That backup SF need still lurks in the shadows, 5 years later!

Keegan, the backup 3 is a damn shame. Joe went out and got 2 better players, way better than the Duprees or the Delfinos that hardly did the trick. Hayes never played; Flip was not happy with his streaky shooting and lack of defensive skill. Herrmann didn’t do anything especially that well, but his energy was tremendous, and Flip didn’t care much for him, either.

So, is that Flip’s Fault, or do we need to replace Tayshaun? Because once you start bringing in guys better than Hayes, you start bringing in guys that are starters at the position.

I love Tay as much as anybody, but if there’s an upgrade, one consistent with what Joe D’s vision of this team is, I’m not opposed trading him. Joe would never allow Tay the indignity of competing for minutes at the 3, so I think he’d probably have to go if we were to bring in that sort of 3 you’re discussing.

I’d also like to see Herrmann in a Pistons uniform next year, to see what he can really do, but I’m not foolish enough to think of him as an actual solution yet.
Watching him trap is a total joy, btw. His arms flail wildly, he scoots to and fro, he’s gets right up in people’s faces; it’s the sort of crap I love to watch.

Me too. I really don’t have a problem with Tayshaun, Jarvis, or Herrmann. I actually thought that was the best fit, Tayshaun with his defensive specialty and point forward ability, and Jarvis or Walter, with their offense and energy and uptempo natures.

Sauce,

The Hayes thing might have been top of the list of Joe’s “not on the same page” talk. Hayes was brought in to put it up early and often once he came in. Flip for some reason expected him to be a poor man’s Tayshaun, play defense, and be the third option. He was brought into be the first option.

An interesting trade idea I saw was Chauncey/Sheed for Brand/Maggette. Brand/Maggette both have player options right now but if they both don’t opt out the trade works salary wise. Even if they did opt out there would still be sign and trade possibilities. I’m not sure if the Clip’s would do this, but they would get the pg they desperately need and Sheed’s contract is only for this year, so there isn’t much of a commitment if it doesn’t work out for them. They also aren’t big fans of handing out long term contracts so they wouldn’t have to worry about Brand or Maggette.

There are question marks about Brand’s health but he did play pretty well when he came back for 8 games last year, plus we have Kander to do his thing. If Brand is healthy he would give us a 20/10 guy who can score in the paint which is something we desperately need. I’m not sure if Maggette is a Joe D type of guy, but the guy did avg. almost 10 free throws per game last year and he would give us the back up SF we need.

Projected Line Up;

PG – Stuckey / (Mid Level exception for backup pg) / (#29 pick)
SG – Rip / AA
SF – Tay / Maggette
PF – Brand / Amir
C – McDyess / Maxiel

There are definitely some risks with this trade, but I think this makes us a better playoff team because we’d be able to get more easy baskets with an improved Stuckey, Brand in the low post, and Maggette who is also very good at getting to the rim and drawing fouls.

Jim, that deal would require a 3rd team at least to make work, since Tayshaun and Maggette are both starters. They’re mirror opposites of each other, also. Maggette is about on par with Hayes for defense.

Sauce, I have to defend Maggette’s defense. He’s fallen off a bit but when he puts his mind to it, he’s a lock down defender. Kobe would always say he was the best defender he’s faced.

I wouldn’t trust Kobe’s assessment, considering that Kobe just wants to light up guys. I trust people who get to him, like Raja Bell, over Kobe’s own personal who’s who of guys he can destroy.

1) Isn’t there a reason why Gauruder is still writing for a suburban paper for a zillion years? This article serves as Exhibit A, virtually all those trades make no sense. Not the best article, but yes, good discussion.

2) I’d pull the trigger on Sheed and Samb for Brand and Maggette, not Sheed and Amir, though. Donald T may go for that, seeing how he hates paying people.

2a) I know we love talking about this stuff, but it should almost be an NBA by-law to prohibit any team from trading with Dumars. Dumars was MJ’s toughest defender by MJ’s own admission, but Joe has just abused him as a GM. Shame there’s really nothing left on the Bobcats to trade for. Remember how many heists and FA signings he pulled off to build this team.
 
3) I watched Walter play some meaningful minutes this year, and while I like his game in general, he seems just a half step too slow to guard any above average 3.

3a) One of the reasons Flip is unemployed is that his judgment of the (3) position leaves something to be desired. I mean, Mo Evans over Delfino? C’mon, but Evans was his boy in Mlps. Similar situation with Jarvis over Walter, seemed like they were committed to Jarvis. Now I get why Jarvis played, but his defense was nonexistent, and other teams were attacking him when he was in. Besides, Walter is the much better overall player, which is why they’re talking about him coming back and not Jarvis.

4) MP-I’ll work on my DBB game a little more. I know how that facepalm feels like first thing in the am. My POV is that you have the best or second best GM in hoops running things, and with that in mind, I just don’t get too excited about the possibility of him doing something stupid, because it’s not happening.

4a) Anyone read Stephen A’s article on Dumars and Curry? Not everyone on ESPN is a DP’s hater lol…(actually, quite a few love the team, Greg Anthony, Jalen Rose, Mark Stein, etc..)

5) Isn’t there like a game on tonight or something?

QD: I thought the Kobe-stopper honor went to Tay.

The Clips have been off-and-on trying to move Maggette forever. Thornton’s emergence makes him expendable, so it’s feasible. I won’t pretend to understand the economics of the situation, either.
Regardless, Billups for Maggette is a dicey proposition because “(Mid Level exception for backup pg)” ensures that Stuckey MUST succeed at the point.

This isn’t a direct rebuttal to anything here, but rather a small dose of reality to all the Joe love. I have a ton of faith in Dumars (probably more than any other GM), but he’s not infallible. Look at his draft history:

2003: even if you ignore Darko, he took Delfino and passed on Leonardo Barbosa, Josh Howard, Luke Walton, Jason Kapono, Keith Bogans, Steve Blake, Mo Williams, Zaza Pachulia, James Jones … I’m guessing all of those guys would still be on the roster.

2005: I love Maxiell, but he went before David Lee, Monta Ellis, and Linas Kleiza. If the Knicks or Warriors offered Lee or Ellis straight up for Maxiell right now, it’d be something to think about.

2007: Afflalo is nice, but better than Carl Landry?

Obviously I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, but if this roster had Josh Howard backing up Tay, Ellis backing up Rip and Stuckey behind Chauncey (or any other combination of players named above), the Pistons would probably be going for their third straight title instead of sitting home after three straight ECF losses. Part of the reason the core has remained unchanged after so many years is because the Pistons have whiffed on some diamonds in the rough.

(Yeah, yeah, so did almost every other team in the league, this is for the sake of argument more than real criticism …)

Matt, all due respect, I don’t know about that one. Drafting is not an exact science, and while Joe has had his whiffs, I don’t think the record is that bad. Consider how Amir, Max, Stuck and Spellcheck will pan out. If you want to make an easier argument, we could have drafted Bosh instead of Darko and we’d be talking dynasty here. Compare his records against everyone else’s over the last five years and I’ll bet it’s above average.

His record at trades and FA signings is pretty good, IMHO, particularly the trades.

V: No doubt, I’m definitely playing devil’s advocate.

I really really hate fan speculations. It adds nothing to the discussion but regrets when it does happened. I don’t really care much for what Dana Gauruder has to say because he’s not looking at the situation from the point of view of Joe D. How would he know what is best for the team? is he Joe D twin brother?

You may have to revoke my DBB membership. I’m kinda excited to watch this Finals.

I know most of you hate him, but I’ve been a secret Kobe fan for a while now, especially after Shaq left and the Lakers were no longer a threat.

Plus, right now, my hatred for the Celtics outweighs my hatred for the Lakers.

@Quick Darshan considered yourself out of the circle. Watching the FINALS without the Pistons playing is blasphemy and heretic.

I think Stuckey is going to be a good player. In another year.
It’s way too soon to throw the kid in at the deep end. Billups needs to stay only because players of his type are so damn rare, he at least has another three good years in him given his natural abilities. I mean, he has size, strength and shooting ability. They don’t ever really go, unlike speed or athleticism which Billups has never been accused of possessing.
Boney has mentioned before that Rip is unable to create his own shot off the dribble. With Detroit as currently constructed, that is not a weakness. He can run around screens and curl whichever way he wants because that is what we do. If that changes, he will still be a damn good player but perhaps his weakness will be more pronounced. Couple this with his very attractive contract, and to me it would seem he would be valuable in trade circles.
If Joe wants to pursue a trade involving Sheed and Rip then he must get a Superstar, nothing less. A lot of trades have been thrown out there involving Sheed, everything from Biedrins to McGrady. My hope is Joe surprises us all and gets a trade/pick that will blow our socks off.

In any case. Lakers in four. The Celtics wins would then means nothing just like the Cavs were last year.

Can we at least trade those Alex Acker rights?

QD is fine, liking Kobe, hell, minority share Lakers fan here.

Phil Jackson is doing what I hoped Flip would do. Double Kendrick Perkins in the post.

Perkins takes ten minutes to get off a shot, but he’ll make it. But, he can’t deal with a double team and will turn the ball over (like he just did). He’s not used to doubles.

@Quick Darshan please post your heretic rants on your love for the Lakers on a Lakers blog or something. We true Pistons fans are still mourning.

QD, even though Detroit kept its defensive ability, it was due to the players staying the defensive workhorses more than Flip’s gameplans.

The one thing I got really tired of was that goddamn fucking zone where our players would be 2 steps too late to bother the outside shooter. Boston wasn’t even that great of a ball-handling team, either.

Some analysis from Dumars chat buddy Chad Ford of ESPN:

“With the Pistons firing coach Flip Saunders and GM Joe Dumars promising further changes, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them find a way to move up in the draft.

One of Dumars’ biggest concerns about Saunders (as well as previous coaches Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle) was his unwillingness to develop the younger players on the roster. You can bet that incoming coach Michael Curry will get a stern mandate from Dumars.

The team is very high on Rodney Stuckey and Amir Johnson but still needs another young player or two for the pipeline.

As far as tradable assets go, the Pistons are in great shape. Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess are heading into the last year of their contracts. Richard Hamilton and Chauncey Billups would have great value, especially to teams trying to get over the hump in the playoffs. Tayshaun Prince, the youngest of the core veterans, is someone who would interest almost any team.

In other words, if Dumars wants to remake the roster, it won’t be that difficult.

My guess is that Wallace will be the one most in play. I could see the Philadelphia 76ers, New Jersey Nets, Houston Rockets, Warriors and/or Bobcats making a run at Wallace this summer. And each of those teams, except the Rockets, has a first-round pick good enough to interest the Pistons. "

Going all the way back to my comment at the top of this thread, V, Laughton, Keegan, how could I have forgotten you guys in my list? I am now facepalming for forgetting you…

@QD, I may not be much of a Kobe fan, but I respect him, especially for what his game has become. Since the Gasol trade, I actually enjoyed watching them a few times (I like Gasol). I can’t bring myself to watch ANY of the finals games, I’m just too hurt. But I wanted to say I share your interest.

@Jim, Maggette can be a locker room problem, he was fighting with Dunleavy about playing time the season before this one that just ended. He got it this year, but we can’t expect him to take a set behind Tayshaun and be happy about it.

I had Maggette on my fantasy team all season, and man was I glad I drafted him. His shooting efficiency and ability to draw contact is out of this world…

@V, I really want LawyerBoy to comment on some of Ford’s suggestions about those available teams, but all signs are pointing to a guest post by him with is draft ideas. Hey LB, get on that, my friend!

Hey, complaining about the lack of a good backup SF is my schtick! Seriously, are we going to keep Hayes?

@Mike P – Yeah, you are right about Maggette. He would definitely have a reduced role with us, so he could be a locker room issue. Even if Tay played a lot of back up pg, Maggette wouldn’t play more then 20-25 minutes a game. I’m just a big Brand fan…he would be very valuable on the court and has the type of character Joe D likes. Is it worth giving up CB and Sheed for those two? I don’t know…

V, I’d always kind of assumed that if we were going to try to get a lottery pick that Rip would be the guy on the move. I just don’t think that Rasheed has a value that high around the league, and I think SGs are one of the easiest positions to fill. Plus there’d have to be other considerations to make the $$ match up. Any trade involving Rasheed and getting back a draft pick will almost certainly involve us trading away future 1s and probably a young guy, too. So at that point with all the uncertainty floating around I question how worthwhile it really is to try to spin Rasheed into a draft pick since we’d be giving away something in the neighborhood of 2 #1s and a young’n.

Finishing my thought…

If we’re going to go kaboom and blow this thing up, there could be a 1-2 year period of growing pains, and while the East kind of stinks, it won’t in a couple years. We could end up trading away a real nice pick down the road and those things are nice little safety nets for a team like us where if we just happened to find our way to a late lottery/mid-teen pick I’d feel really good about our ability to find somebody who can contribute and get us back where we belong in 1-2 years.

@Other Matt:
I agree with Joe D. about this one— you don’t go bad in hopes to go good. We have one of the premier starting fives in the NBA. We could move two for a top player and be a title contender the following year.

We have the ingredients for a championship team now, its just that the recipe is a bit out-dated. If we swap a few of those ingredients for one key substitute, or vice versa, we could be title contenders in a single year.

We were the deepest team in the NBA this season, and the players that were NOT a key part of our success (hayes, dixon, ratliff, herrmann, hunter) are all likely out the door. We could move two of our starting five maintain our identity.

Before any of this, however, we’ve got to find someone to give the keys to. And as Joe said, we likely won’t see any trade action until after the draft (unless we go for a lottery pick, which would be right before the draft).

Could we get Okur back to the D?

How come no one has mentioned Jamison and Gilbert? The would be great assets to the Pistons. They are both free agents and we could unload the Rasheed and Billups contracts to Washington.

Gilbert
Richard
Tayshaun
Jamison
McDyess

That way the Pistons would have that star player and it would get them over the hump to win another championship.

regarding the chad ford insight, i’m sure if there are two coaches who would get the best out of sheed it would be l.b. and mo cheeks. i don’t think mo has the pull in philly to get sheed back to his hometown, especially with the youth movement in philadelphia, but l.b. absolutely could push for the deal successfully in charlotte. it would be a first big step into putting his stamp on that team. i would think part of the deal would involve the #9 pick. i would think okafor and #9 for sheed and #29 would be far too much to ask. also the picks around the end of the top 10 get kind of dicey. i’m not sure who you’d get overly excited about getting at 9. alexander? gallinari? deandre jordan?

@whomever it was who referred to Chauncey as a “rare breed” of player:

Chauncey WAS a rare breed. In ’04, the guy stepped onto the floor with a big ole SCREW YOU look on his face. He had something to prove. Its almost as if Billups can now just point at that one ring and say, “hey man i got mine.”

Watching the wings win the stanley cup, it was amazing to me to see a team that had veterans who actually cared about getting that cup for Dallas Drake. If the Pistons vets cared half as much as any one of those red wings, we’d be well on our way to getting a championship for McDyess.

I’m of the opinion that whatever we do in the off-season, I don’t want to see this team win more than 50 games. When we start winning more than 50 games. Lets go into the playoffs a 3 or a 4 seed for once and actually have to prove ourselves, rather than walking in thinking we own the place. That mentality hasn’t worked.

Rough seasons allow young players to mature at a faster rate. The only way I’d be okay with winning 50+ games is if its a direct result of our young core.

Maybe I lack imagination, but I don’t really see any deal that could make the winningest group in Pistons history much better. Elton Brand? Yes, but I couldn’t trade for a guy coming off his injury.

This team hopefully will get a kick in the butt from the new head coach. In addition I think they should add some free agents that are hungry and will kick them in the butt as well. I know McDyess is hungry, but he isn’t a vocal guy.

I don’t know what we have in cap exceptions but here are some guys I think would help:

Ryan Gomes: He brings offense off the bench and can back up Tay. I don’t know what type of deal he commands, but he’s only getting $800K now. He’s young, so we can keep him around.

Eduardo Najera: This guy hustles every second he’s on the floor. Can you imagine him on the second unit with Maxiel? He won’t be that expensive. Maybe we can get him for the veteran’s minimum or something.

Andres Nocioni: I don’t know how the contracts of Deng and Gordan are going to play out, so the bulls may not be able to afford him. He always seems to give us problems when we play them. He plays tough D and can hit the three when left open.

Ron Artest: I know this seems unthinkable. I think he’s the guy Dallas should have traded for, instead of Jason Kidd. The guy can be a head case, but no one (except for Kobe) wants to win more than he does. His behavior is more a distraction than a cancer in the locker room. Like Rodman was with the Bulls. Maybe Sheed will cool off a little bit to try and be a good example for Ron.

I think if Joe D can get some combination of one of the first two guys and one of the second two guys, we’ll have what we need to get back to the finals.

While the Bulls seem to be content doing it, I don’t think the Pistons are the type of team to take on a 5-year/$37.5 million deal for what will become essentially a backup SF. Hell, Nocioni only made $175,620 less than Tayshaun did this season. Najera will not sign for the veteran’s minimum and he likely won’t sign for less (or much less) than the approximate $5 million he made this year. He played in a career high 78 games this year and essentially maintained his statistical averages. Ron Artest (who’s only about 4 months older than Tay, believe it or not) as an affordable backup SF? Pipe dream. Gomes played fantastic for Minnesota this year while starting in 74 games. Expect him to get a huge raise (in the neighborhood of $5-8 million per) from whichever team he plays for next season.

Joe D. is not likely to get any of those guys unless Najera is sent to the Pistons as part of a trade. While those players may make teams better they won’t make our team better anytime soon, if ever at all. Per MP’s request, I’m going to try and compile my list of what I believe to be realistic transactions with plausible trade partners. Coincidentally (or not), the only core 4 player involved in my trade ideas is Rasheed.

Other Matt & Mike P: Just a friendly reminder that we are probably one inside post presence away from being an elite team. Which is why I’m harping on Brand.

JD: While Dumars loves hijacking MJ the GM, there has to be something to hijack first. I’m not seeing anything in Charlotte worth acquiring, including the #9 pick. If Dumars is going to make a trade, he’s going to trade for a vet, not a draft pick. He’s looking to reload, not rebuild.

James B.: Excellent thought. I think what has Dumars pissed is that he gave all these guys long term contracts, and they lost their hunger for more rings. The fact that Stuck is untouchable may mean Chauncey’s out the door.

“http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/52854/20080605/could_detroit_be_interested_in_woodson/”
I seriously hope not

I don’t want to be seen as an apologist for Chauncey, but he really is still a big asset to the team. I think Sheed has the more disruptive attitude, hence his name being first mentioned for trade. Is he on the block? Yes and if the right deal were to come up and it was in our favour then it would be wise to trade him. Stuckey needs more time to develop. As of right now, Stuckey is not a better PG than Chauncey. We all want fair value or better for our guys. I don’t believe we would get that for Chauncey unless he was part of a package with Sheed.

Laughton, as far as sympathy to a point for Chauncey, I agree. He has his off moments, but he has come up big in big moments; even with his injury. I like his swagger and I really don’t think we’re going to get a lucky break by dissolving our backcourt: Our gaurds are NOT the problem.

Everyone’s been dancing around the subject like it’s a problem no one really wants to face – We absolutely need a real center to win. In 04, we had the Wallace x2. At the time, at least, Ben was great and blocking the shot and beating people up down low. He knew his role there, and accepted it (probably because he couldn’t sink real shots). Sheed’s a great PF, but you can’t expect him and Dyess to do that kind of work all of the time while being backed by our small Maxie.

We need to trade Rasheed for a big man Center. Ratliff is old, Maxie is small (I still love him), and Amir needs more fucking minutes!

I know peopole have mentioned getting Elton Brand from the Clippers, but what about another Clipper that can score down low? I wonder what it would take to bring Chris Kaman back to Michigan…

Anyhow, I would be interested in acquiring Corey Magette. The Pistons could find ways to give him a lot of minutes. I think he could play the 2. Someone suggested Prince getting minutes as a point forward, so that would also open up time for Magette. I know he’s wanted to be a starter, but maybe he’d be tempted with the chance to compete for 6th Man of the Year.

I thought it at the time and Empty the Bench made me think of it again – isn’t Tyson Chandler a guy who was meant to be a Piston?

I’ve been thinking along the same lines as DD & Birdman. Brand could be a superstar BUT he’s coming off a serious injury, he’s gonna want a BIG $ contract, and he’s not a center. Brand is a great low-post scorer but he’s not tall enough or big enough to truely control the middle of the floor like the center we need.

Chandler would be great but he’s really developed chemistry with Paul and I would really doubt the Hornets would want to disrupt what they got going this year. Okefor is injury prone, not a scorer, and not all that athletic. I like Beidrins but he’s not as proven, would want a $ contract, and GS would have trouble working out the salaries in a trade….

Which leads me to Chris Kaman. He’s got the size and skill sets of a true big-time center. He’s only 26 and has a fair contract at ~$10 million a year (although I am nervous that it lasts until 1012). He also players for the Clippers… who always love ways to save money. Optimistically, you could send Sheed and Afflalo to LA for Kaman and Magette (if he accepts his player option for a chance in Detroit). There could be add-ons each way but the money already works out. Magette could get 30+ minutes as the backup 2 & 3 and we would have a certified rebound machine in Kaman.

If Joe could somehow dupe his way to a 3rd pick for Sheed, and Beasley is available…

Since the general consensus seems to be Rasheed has to go and we need a backup 3, how about Rasheed to Milwaukee For Bogut (7’0 Center) and Desmond Mason? It solves a lot of our (precieved) problems- We get a starting Center, and a back up 3 Although I think our Defensive skillsets dip, we get a legit low post threat and a warm body to give Tayshaun a blow. The money works, Miwaukee upgrades defensively and offensively, maybe they have to move Yi to the 5… We don’t have to try and convince a young starting caliber 3 to ride the pine, we get another McDyess- a veteran that wants a shot at a ring with a contender. Amir gets more minutes at the 4. I just do not see Magette accepting the role of 6th man (even on a contender) for at least 3 years.

1 Billups/Stuckey
2 Hamilton/Dixon
3 Prince/Mason/Afflalo
4 Maxiell/Johnson
5 Bogut/McDyess
12-15 Hermmann, Hayes, Samb, Ratliff or some new guy.
Thoughts?

I’m definitely in agreement with Kaman. We all know that the Clips LOVE giving shit away. Give up Sheed, and a bench player or a pick – that’d definitely solve our big man problem.

I’m really not a fan of most of the trade ideas being floated here. Brand and Maggette? This doesn’t seem like much of an upgrade over Sheed and Tay. I mean, we get a little bit more scoring and a little worse on defense. Obviously we get more “easy” buckets with these guys, i.e. less jump shots and more driving lay ups and low post shots. But they didn’t get it done together in Clipperland – why are they going to be so good in Detroit? Maybe we’d have better pieces around them . . . but my gut says this is a “treading water” type trade.

Okafor? He’s hurt a lot, wants too much $$ (as prev. noted), and provides little on the offensive end. Again, treading water.

The Curry/Randolph ideas are just laughable. These guys are career losers with terrible attitudes. They are NOT the underachievers that Joe D. picks up to form the right team (i.e. our entire current roster).

I’d really like to see a true superstar. Someone who is a reliable scorer at the end of games, and who can get easy baskets (no more jump shots please). Ideas? Arenas would have been great, but the injury scares me. Amare would be nice but I am scared by 1. attitude 2. he’s a big, and bigs don’t dominate at the end of games – its too easy to trap them in end of game situations.

If we could pick up Kevin Martin on the cheap, I’d be interested as well. Jason Richardson might be a nice fit too — but again, I wouldn’t gut the starting lineup for him.

@DJ:
Laughton mentioned that just after the season ended. While it would be beautiful for Detroit, I don’t see Milwaukee ever making that trade. In fact, Milwaukee could make the playoffs this season as it is. They’ve got a solid new coach and some impressive young players that compliment the younger veterans on that team. I think they don’t make any trades until after they’ve made the playoffs and then re-calibrate to try and become a contender.

They might try and skip the first step and move straight to making trades that put them into contention, but a) this is milwaukee we’re talking about and I don’t think that is possible and b) their new GM, our buddy, isn’t going to roll those dice.

D. Sterling loves magette, and has kept him against dunlevy’s calls for a trade. No way he get’s “tossed in” in any trade.

I think Milwaukee may be looking to make some roster changes. Looking at that team you think “hey, they ought to be pretty good.” But for some reason they just suck. And there’s no indication that they’ll get any better. Their defense is just terrible – they gave up the worst fg % in the league. Between Yi, Bogut, and Villenueva, they aren’t going to inspire much fear in the paint. If there’s any team in the league who has talent, flexibility, and a huge need to make some changes, it’s Milwaukee.

I could see them coveting Wallace or Chauncey.

That’s a good point, Craig. I forgot about Magette being one of the owner’s favorite players. I guess I’m not sure who all is out there. I do feel like the Pistons could use a true center, since McDyess, ’Sheed, Max, and Amir are really power forwards.

Shinons: No indication they’ll get better? Hello, Skiles instead of Krystowiak. They should see a 5-10 game bump in wins automatically based on that change. This team could easily hit .500 if it plays to its full potential or certainly if it adds pieces thanks to Hammond in the draft or by a trade. Porter got Michael Redd and co. to .500 with a less talented roster in 2003-2004 (and that’s why he should be our coach, damnit!), and Skiles is not exactly a bad coach in this type of environment.

I agree that it could easily be a .500 team if it played up to its potential – but I don’t think it will. They’re too soft and they get too disinterested, especially on the defensive end. Skiles could get the players to buy in, but he could just as easily lose the locker room by the end of November.

This is a team that I thought was really interesting this year because of how much talent and potential it has, yet how terrible they played. I like Skiles, but I don’t think any coach out there has the mojo to make a complete 180 degree turn like that. Especially because of the fact that all these guys are veterans, not young, wide-eyed guys like he had in Chicago. They’ve got some nice pieces there, and I think they’re going to have to make some moves if they want to be competitive. Just my opinion.

As I and others have said, losing ‘Sheed leaves a huge whole, because there is nobody else on the squad close to being able to play center: McDyess and Maxiell are too small; Johnson isn’t near ready to bang in the paint; and Ratliff isn’t a starter at this point.

The truth is, we’re probably deeper at guard, at least if you believe that Afflalo is going to be at least a decent bench player next year (and I’m willing to assume that). Also, guards are easier to get than centers (although granted, good POINT guards are harder to get).

I still don’t see any obvious trade that makes us better, but I think with Stuckey’s emergence we are more able to deal Chauncey or Rip than ‘Sheed. Of course, that doesn’t take into account the idea that ’Sheed’s attitude is a big problem, but I’m not convinced of that myself.

@ Banks: There’s now way we get Kevin Martin cheap, and Sacramento’s so desperate for talent, I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t throw big money at him to get him to stay. That team isn’t so hot with him as their centerpiece anyway, so if they were to let him go, that franchise becomes a disasterpiece. The fans are already mad at management because the Maloofs wanted a taxpayers to help foot the bill for a new stadium. Allowing Martin to bolt town would look really, really bad. Unless you believe in Quincy Douby (Some do! Not me! Sorry Quincy!).

@ Butter: I’ve thought about Jamison a bit, too. 50/50 he goes somewhere else, that’s my half-assed prediction. He’s a hard-working baller, inside and outside, so it’s intriguing. And he’s such a quiet producer, he’s really flying under the radar of all of us throwing trade proposals around.

When can I expect my Mike Payne VIP badge in the mail?

Kevin Martin signed a five-year, $55 million contract last summer. Reggie Theus may not appreciate him, but there’s no way the Kings’ front office trades him.

I WANT AMARE!!!!!!
Brand wouldnt be that bad either and the only person id really be interested in charlotte is gerald wallace
i think amare would fire(the good kind) to our team. you put him and maxiell out at the same time and thats some serious baby eatin.

@shinons:
On the other hand, it could be a good coach that DOES make a 180 with Milwaukee and pushes them toward .500. They’ve got the pieces, they don’t need much more. A Solid, defensive PF could be a big step up, but I doubt they’d give away anything worthwhile.

Also, I’ve mentioned this a few times on DBB, they have a VERY promising, very unknown PG in Sessions. The kid didn’t play all year and then all of a sudden he started the last seven games. Just look at what the kid did:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4333/gamelog;_ylt=ArhcBnhkfMUkXU9arIhs6bykvLYF

That 24 assists was a season record for the NBA. Now he’s going to be coached by the guy who holds the league record, too…

+1 to Keegan for “disasterpiece.”

Ramon Sessions enters the fray!
I didn’t ever get to see him play, but those stat lines from the end of the year are ridiculous. Milwaukee’s continually building for the future, so he probably isn’t going anywhere.
I thought the Sheed for Amare trade was one of the more unbelievable trade proposals, but there was apparently a time last season where the Suns would have been open to the deal. It might have been actually proposed. I forget where I read that, but I took it to be reputable. It wasn’t just some crazed DetNews poster.

Keegan, I remember that. There was a lot of legitimate buzz surrounding a Sheed-Amare deal LAST offseason. That was before the Suns dumped Marion and picked up Shaq. Remember that it was thought the Matrix and Amare were less than compatible due to attitude issues and the team’s reluctance to pay both salaries. It was gonna be Amare or Marion out the door and they found a way to lose Marion.

Also remember comments made by Joe D. that a certain team wanted two Pistons starters in return for an all-star (supposedly Phoenix wanted Tay and Sheed for either Amare or Marion). Matt revisited this in a FanHouse post: http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/JoeDumars/

At that point Joe didn’t want to disrupt the team to this extent and didn’t feel like he’d be getting fair value. The window passed. Now, Phoenix is left with only one young stud instead of two and Pistons starters have lost some value. Hence the same trade for Amare sounds pretty ridiculous in today’s market…

Oh, and Sheed would have been extra valuable because the Suns thought they were a ‘Duncan-stopper’ away from the finals. Um, I guess that was supposed to be Shaq. Go figure.

@ Mike Payne and Laughton, I did not see Laughtons post as I was out of the country until very recently, my apologies, I wasn’t trying to steal anyones ideas.