this is a pretty fair schedule i think…..a game every other game

Ug…no nationally televised games from Nov. 20 to Jan. 19…

After having the most back-to-backs for the last x years, I think we deserved an easier schedule.

Langlois has a nice breakdown of the schedule and how it is much more favorable then the last years.

- Less back to backs (16 instead of 20)
- More games on one nights rest (47 instead of 43)
- Only 1 3+ day layoff compared to 4 of them last year
- The last 8 games contain only 1 team who made the playoffs last year

Wow, no nationally televised games for the Knicks? Looks like Brooklyn’s not going to have a whole lot of trouble taking over that city.

I’m surprised that they’re showing Dallas as much as they are. Houston and New Orleans are better teams (even with franchise saviors Diop and Gerald Green) with more marketable stars. Dallas isn’t really a contending team anymore, and it seems like they’d want to show more of the Hornets because everyone loves Chris Paul unless they live in Utah or they happen to be Julius Hodge’s balls.

Found this article on Team USA here.
“There are better shooting teams than Australia in the Olympic games — Spain, Greece and Argentina come to mind. There is no team in the Olympics, however, that D’s it up like Australia does, Detroit Pistons style.”
Sorry, if its not really related to the schedule but I have an agenda to push :)
Also on the schedule, I have no clue whether it is good for this team or not. Maybe they need some hard games. Last year we got 59 wins, so the schedule kinda worked for us. Or I could be wrong…

Totally off-topic …

Clippers acquire three-point specialist Steve Novak from the Rockets for the option to exchange 2nd rounders in the 2011 draft. Since when did that become compensation before this past summer? With Ricky Davis only making $2.3 million this year, I’m realizing what a truly respectable job Elgin Baylor has done this summer. Despite getting spurned by Brand, and losing Maggette up the coast (probably a good thing), Baylor has seemingly improved after 22 years of incompetence. He has the perfect mix of veterans and young guns to all but guarantee the Clippers squeeze into the playoffs this year. Maybe they’ll even get better as the years go on.

Am I saying all of this because I live in LA and want to believe/see it? No. I also went to Indiana University and love Eric Gordon (future NBA stud). Am I saying all of this because I live in LA and love Eric Gordon? Yeah, probably.

Quick Darshan and JackDutch: Time to go in on a partial-season plan, I’m looking at one/both of you!

LB, Mike Dunleavy is the GM for the Clippers. During the Brand debacle, not once did any of the local radio shows have Elgin on and at no point was he ever mentioned in any stories.

I’m definitely up for catching some Clipper games. I used to get the 10 pack (don’t know if they still have it) it’s a good deal even though Staples is a horrible place to watch a game if you’re in the upper deck.

The worst seat in the Palace still gives you a decent view of the floor. The cheap seats in Staples look almost directly down. It’s like watching a bunch of X’s and O’s.

This is about as off topic as it gets………But… In honor of how excited I am about seeing my Stones play (even if that means hearing fat chicks from Dearborn in fake cornrow wigs yell “WE LOVE YOU KWAME” from court-side mics on the way to comerical….shudder) I decided to share the best Youtube Mix I could find for each and every Piston. Warning, people who watch basketball also seem to like rap with swearing in it… to quote Furio… “No b*tch to me”… Don’t click if you can’t handle thug logic applied to basketball. Also please don’t complain if they’re old or you already saw them. In most cases I watched at LEAST 5 videos before picking a favorite. My chief criteria was “Is this fun to watch” not “Does this reflect who said player is RIGHT now?” As always much love and full credit to the crazy whackos at Youtube. :

Chauncey “Smooth” Billups:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE-ptpdBVOs

Richard “Rip” Hamilton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOUIob1T3oE

Tayshaun Prince “of Defense” :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8dY9LPeElY

Antonio Mc"Dice"yees (Love It!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aRQNvlQpCY

"Ra""Sheed" Wallace:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBKmNiedj-k

Jason “Babyeater” Maxiel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcREdq3CGfA

Amir “Unchained” Johnson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lXByT3588c

Arron “Showbe” Affalo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKFyvW_Bq9k

Lindsey “The Press” Hunter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzO1NRoKjLg

Kwame “Why Didn’t I Get a Rap Song?” Brown (Airball):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8eMsEXPmX0

Walter “White Boy Hustle” Herrman (Fabio):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saYVKxLsJes

Walter “Wow I have a mix tape?” Sharpe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT3wxFmJBI8

Will “The Thrill” Bynum (There is an awesome 6 min video of this guy out there as well but I hate mixes that run more than one song):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SItls39C-NI

Unfortunately and yes, this is a travesty, but there are no Rodney Stuckey mixes out there yet. Just the “Zoo Crew” Mix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDbC_smy1Wo

Also this video consisting mostly of bad graphics and stills:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyi6Wr0ae3o

Dear Eastern Washington fans. You suck. If Mike Dunleavy Jr had a college mix tape I don’t see why you bastards couldn’t show our boy some love during his scholastic career.

Hope this brightens your day, I know it totally made mine.

Bonus Content:

Bill Laimbeer Mix (This is Awesome btw):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGrQ38-pp0

There is no Michael Curry mix but there are “highlights” of Curry as a player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW1MqKr0fxo

Unfortunately the highlights are of Tracy McGrady blowing by Curry (2:44) in the first game of the ‘03 playoffs. It’s funny to hear the announcers say Rip Hamilton has butterflies because it’s his first playoff game. Now he’s the all-time Pistons playoff scorer!

“He has the perfect mix of veterans and young guns to all but guarantee the Clippers squeeze into the playoffs this year. "

I’ll take the “all but” side of that bet. Assuming the Lakers, New Orleans, Utah, San Antonio, Houston are playoff locks, who do the Clips dethrone?

Nash and Stoudemire should carry Phoenix in, even if Shaq is washed up. Portland is substantially improved, so I don’t see the Clips making up 18 games on them. Golden St., Denver and Dallas could all slip somewhat, but the Clips would have to overtake all of them, which is hard to do even if you have a superior squad (and I don’t think they do).

Novak is fine, but he’s not going to push them over the edge. He’s not going to get the easy looks he got in Houston.

LB: Agree, but I think Elgin has done a decent job the last several years. He got Elton & Maggetee to sign up a few years ago, Thorton looks like a keeper and he took some flake for drafting Kaman (at 10 if memory serves me) and he hasn’t turned out that bad. Though I’m sure there are several players taken after him who have exploded.

Had Elton stayed I think they’d be as close to the Lakers they have ever been and we’d at least have somewhat of a rivalry brewing.

KevinS: I think Novak gets just as many looks seeing as how Yao got his looks in Houston but I think B. Davis gets him some looks as Houston as I recall didn’t have a drive and dish PG.

Fianlly, they’ve got a decent roster and I think would be a playoff team in the east but I’ve never been that impressed with Dunleavy. Whether it be Portland, Lakers or Clips. I might just dig out an old Clips hat I got from the kids for Christmas years ago.

Sporting News interview with Coach Curry:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=443014

As exciting as the trade possibility was (is?) i still think it’s pretty cool to have a roster that stays almost the same for many years straight. It’s rare to find the core of a team so wanting and willing to remain together… makes me proud to be a Pistons fan. I’m getting excited with the thought of these guys giving it another try together.

I tend to be optimistic though… sometimes to a fault.

Since this seems to be a thread just filled with tangents, I’m just going to throw another one out there – my God the Tigers are a depressing team.

(White Sox fan)

@Aaron N – I agree. It’s probably exciting to be like the Clippers or GS with a talented and completely re-vamped line-up, but both those teams will be lucky to make the playoffs. The contenders are the teams that have been together for a while like the Lakers, NO, Spurs, Pistons, etc. The Celtics last year were the exception to the rule and usually when teams make those big moves to shake things up (Phoenix, Dallas, Cleveland, Chicago) it just messes things up. I think we need to make a change, but I would prefer no change at all over a dumb change. So most of me is glad Joe D. has been quiet even though that’s made for some frustrating times here at DBB.

Exclusive Marcus Stout Detroit Pistons Summer League Player

http://www.pistonscast.com/blog/2008/08/06/exclusive-marcus-stout-detroit-pistons-summer-league-player-interview/

Oh come now Ya’ll, at least watch the Dice one, it’s sexy :)

(I’m not sure this WAS supposed to be the “randon” thread Shinons but really how much can one REALLY talk about a game schedule that doesn’t start until Oct 29th on August 7th? Right… it was bound to happen really. And that’s why I plead “Not Guilty” or something)

The Kwame one has an incredibly wussy song and it features him whiffing a free throw. I don’t even hate him, and I think it’s great.

I’m not leveling any charges. When they first released it, I got all excited about the season starting in a month and a half or so – then I remembered September. I forget about that stupid month every year.

Yeah, basketball is way too far away.

Steve Novak f-ing sucks.

I spit on Steve Novak’s career stats.

Well, Novak is no Walter Herrmann… but dude can shoot.

I spit in the general vicinity of Steve Novak’s career stats.

I think the Clippers will improve, but playoffs? I’m with kevin — that conference is still tough as nails, just like last year, there will be some very good teams left out in the cold.

@Mark B in SoCal: Back in 2003, Elton Brand and Corey Maggette were restricted free agents. Brand signed an offer sheet with the Heat and Maggette signed with the Jazz, so it’s not like Baylor actually convinced them to stay so much as matched their offer sheets and forced them to. (And I credit owner Donald Sterling for allowing Baylor to do that more than anything else, since he rarely bothered to pay to retain his star players in the past.)

I think the clips should have a chance. I’m thinking (in no particular order) lakers, suns, rockets, new orleans, blazers and jazz are in, and the other 2 spots are up for grabs. I’m not putting the spurs on the auto list after last season, since I think another injury or 2 would knock them out (and i’d love to see them not make the play offs).

The Clippers look more like a 40-45 win team than a playoff lock. The defense is better with Camby, but the offense looks really mediocre, even with the addition of Baron (who is great at creating shots but doesn’t necessarily create good ones).

Even with Golden State, Phoenix, Dallas, and Denver especially looking to decline next season, each one of them would have to take pretty big dives for the Clippers to make it.

Craig, don’t forget the Spurs.

This year’s Clippers = Last year’s Warriors.

How can we dismiss the Spurs on the basis of injuries when the Clips are depending on Baron Davis and Marcus Camby? Especially when the former likely earned his final contract and the latter is unhappy to be joining the Clips?

My two cents worth on the Western Conference playoff picture:

LA(L), NO, Utah, SA and Houston are definitely in…Phoenix and Dallas are likely in, which leaves the Clips, Portland, Golden State, and Denver fighting for that last playoff spot.

Now that the schedule is out couples and families can start negotiating money to spend, time to be allocated, when to take trips etc.

Is this year’s schedule worth a new and bigger HDTV?

My two cents worth on the Western Conference playoff picture:

LA(L), NO, Utah, SA and Houston are definitely in…Phoenix and Dallas are likely in, which leaves the Clips, Portland, Golden State, and Denver fighting for that last playoff spot.>>

I agree with your five that are in but with Oden and that rookie from Arizona whats his name Jerryd something or another, LOL, I think Portland will also be in.

After that it should be a scramble for 7 and 8. I like the Clippers, (that is what living in Los Angeles will do to you, warp your thinking. LOL) and Suns for the last two spots.

I think Minnesota will suprise some people.
Probably by hiding in a cake or something.

Clippers just added J-Will

Clippers sign Jason Williams

31 minutes ago

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LOS ANGELES (AP)—The Los Angeles Clippers acquired still another player during their busy offseason, signing free-agent point guard Jason Williams on Thursday.

The 32-year-old Williams averaged 8.8 points, 4.6 assists, 1.9 rebounds and 28 minutes in 67 appearances last season with the Miami Heat. His backcourt mate there was Ricky Davis, another free agent signed by the Clippers on July 28.

"We are excited to add Jason to our squad," Clippers coach Mike Dunleavy said in a statement. "He brings added veteran leadership and playoff experience to our backcourt."

They now have 10 new players out of the 14 under contract. It should be fun. Clippers are my second favorite team next to the Stones.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Apbb1HZEEpXHlG3G9kRGbq.8vLYF?slug=ap-clippers-williams&prov=ap&type=lgns

“I think Minnesota will suprise some people.
Probably by hiding in a cake or something.”

awesome

I was just reading Chris Sheridan’s new piece on the Beijing Olympic basketball and he referenced the 2000 Sydney Olympics where none other than Antonio McDyess got called for a weird travelling call based on FIBA rules. I forgot McDyess had a gold medal from Sydney and not only does he have the medal he was on the floor in crunch time in the gold medal game. So congrats to Olympic gold medalist Antonio McDyess!

If Team USA wins I’m sure the Pistons will honor Tayshaun Prince before one of the games but they should also honor McDyess and have him bring his 2000 medal to show the fans.

As long as 2 wheels are rolling on the SA tricycle and pops is pedeling , they’re a lock. I dont think Portland makes it without acquiring a veteran or 2 (Yes,I know Brandon Roy is a stud. I got his complimentary “Roy for All-star” Zune full of highlights that nobody saw last February) . The clips look good on paper with BDiddy, Cambyman Cambyman Cambyman Cambyman Cambyman..into the mirror (now im gonna develop bad knees and a horrid post game. Horrid movie reference), kaveman, mobley, & thornton + a good bench.
I’m most interested to see what the suns are like this year. I predict Nash reverts to his numbers as a Mav (good but not great) and Amare carries the team until ‘you know what’ happens….‘you know what’ being G.Hill concusses him with a line drive 20ft jumper.
SA, Utah, Houston, LA, Dallas, NO, Portland, Phoenix

Wow…looking at how loaded the West is, the East is just sad.

You guys are right about SA. They’ll only miss the playoffs when the next elite 7 footer is coming out, then duncan, ginobilli and parker will all go down, they’ll get the 1st pick in the draft, then continue their dominance. What I do like about next seasons western conference, is that I could totally see Phoenix or Dallas selling at the trade deadline if they’re not in the running or making similar bad moves like last season. Always thought that Dirk would look good in the red, white and blue with the Larry O’brian shaved into his head.

Whoa. I’m not sure “sad” is the right term. I think the east is going to be pretty competitive from 1-6, and there should be a pretty good fight for the last 2 spots. Again, in no particular order, DETROIT, celts, cavs, raps, 6ers, wiz, magic. I could easily see the bucks getting back to respectable, and the cats could pull together this year under LB. And the bulls and heat both have enough talent to get back in the playoff picture. Not quite the same caliber as the west, but I think it’s going to be a fun season in the east this year.

Craig, the East is definitely improving, especially considering you also left out the Hawks. It’s a lot deeper than it has been in the past. But that’s why it’s sad to me – as much as all those teams are improving, who other than the Celts and Pistons would be solid playoff choices in the West? I was definitely excited about how much more competitive this year would be for the conference – or at least that teams as bad as the Pacers or Knicks wouldn’t be competing for the playoffs at least – but man, it’s still way behind the West.

I agree that the west is better than the east, but I think the disparity between the two is universally overstated. Consider this extremely hypothetical attempt to compare the 2 conferences based on subjective and historical analysis. Lets pick hypothetical 1,2 & 7,8 matchups, East vs West.
 1.Boston beats LA, again. I dont think bynum puts them over Boston. (cant both these teams loose?)
 2.Detroit vs SA. Rematch of 05’ finals that went to 7. Similar roster with SA adding nothing new and loosing Horry (maybe). The Pistons gained Stucky and Maxiell and lost Ben & Larry brown. Acknowledging my bias, I’ll call it a scratch.
 7. Miami vs Dallas. 06’ finals where the refs…i mean Miami won it in 6. Dallas switched Harris for Kidd. Miami gave shaq for marion, lost posey, & added the #2 pick. I’m betting a healthy & flailing Dwade would beat Dallas in 09’. (Craig- the hilarious appeal of Dirk with the Larry O’brien shaved in his head is the only think I like about seeing him in red, white & blue.) I got no love for Dirk.
 8. Portland vs Atlanta. equal amounts youth & talent. Ballers in Joe Johnson and Brandon Roy. Athletic young frontcourts. If I had to put money on this series, I’d put it on portland, but I wouldnt put money on this series.

I’m just happy that this year, for the first time in a while, the east faired better than the west in free agency, trades, and the draft. Go East!

Shinons,

I don’t think you can claim that the Hawks are improving at this point in time because they lost one of their most productive bench players to Europe (Childress) and still haven’t re-signed one of their top defenders and offensive players (Smith).

They took Boston to 7 with that squad, but they don’t currently have that squad on their roster and they haven’t made any other major moves or changes outside of signing Mo’ Evans and we all know how much he contributes.

Oh and I should say I definitely think that the East got a lot better this off-season, I just don’t think Atlanta is the best example.

Well J. Smith signed an offer sheet with the Grizz, so no chance of a sign and trade:

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2008/08/josh_smith_signs_58_million_do.html

I’d be pretty shocked if Atlanta doesn’t match this.

I’m pretty shocked that Memphis even bothered. Is this so they can tell their fans they tried to improve this summer? He’d be a good fit, even if I think Warrick deserves a chance, but $58? I’m guessing over 5 years? Almost seems like Memphis is doing atl a favor by doing this.

This is old news but the Clippers rescinded their offer sheet to PF Nick Fazekas so now he is an unrestricted FA. Get Fazekas in here Joe D! His Per48 ratings are better than Amir Johnson, Carl Landry, and David Lee.

The weird thing about the West vs. East is that while by most objective measures, the West has seemed better than the East in the past 5 years, in those 5 years, the Eastern champ has won the NBA championship 3 out of 5 times. Plus, the East has had 3 different teams as champions in that period (Boston, Miami, and Detroit); the West has won twice, both times with the Spurs. Pushing the point, you could note that one of those Spurs victories was just barely getting by Detroit (closer than any of series in which the Eastern Conf. team won). OK, the Spurs swept the Cavs, but the Detroit-LA ’04 series might as well have been a sweep, and none of the Eastern winners had to go to seven games to win.

Yeah, I know, Boston just recently got good, and Miami has fallen off the face of the earth. But of these tough west coast teams, Dallas has been in one finals and managed a historic choke (granted, the refs helped, but still); the Suns haven’t even made it to the finals in the past five years; neither have the Rockets or Jazz; and LA has gone and lost twice, winning a total of three games in the two series.

Yeah, OK, I’m playing with the numbers (why the last five years instead of the last four or six?). And sure, the West is better top to bottom. But that’s evening out a bit. I think.

Mike: I tried to get QD to go in on a mini-package for the Clips, but to no avail. I don’t know if I can support a team with both Ricky Davis (even if it’s only for $2.3 million) and J-Will. But I’m going to try damn hard. Pistons, Blazers, Clips are my top 3.

Here are my 8 Western Conference playoff teams in (rough) order from First to Eighth:

Lakers, Hornets, Jazz, Spurs, Rockets, Blazers, Suns, Clippers.

Yep, no Dallas. I said it, Matt Watson and Kevin S. Dallas is led by Jason Kidd, who is OLD. Dirk is great (though not clutch), but Dallas barely made the playoffs this year (3 games ahead of GS) and then got absolutely whooped in 5 by an unfavored New Orleans squad (stupid analysts). They went 15-14 after the Kidd acquisition (compared to 36-17 before). That’s really, really bad.

Some may say that once Kidd gets the off-season to adjust, the team will mesh and perform better. I say, Kidd is going to be 36 for the last month of this coming season and that sucks for Dallas. Donnie Nelson is not a good GM, and while I love Mark Cuban’s attitude, his impetuous nature sabotaged any playoff success Dallas could’ve had last year and in the coming few.

And Phoenix, they’re on the ledge too with Shaq. They’ve got Porter now, not D’Antoni. The Suns went 37-16 without Shaq, 18-11 with Shaq. 18-11 gets you 51 wins out of 82 games (37-16 gets you 57). We know how dicey 51 wins is in the West, especially with Shaq being the same age as Kidd. There’s less of a guarantee that Shaq stays healthy than probably any NBA star. 160 reg. season games in 3 years. Shaq takes games off, and unless Robin Lopez is awesome, the Suns are in trouble when he does. And never underestimate what kind of stupidity Steve Kerr could display in-season.

Portland is virtually a lock to AT LEAST fill Denver’s 8 pot. I think they could go as high as 4 or 5. They were 41-41 this year, so ANYTHING out of Oden is a bonus on 41-41. Plus, they got Bayless and Batum in the draft, add Rudy Fernandez (23 year-old sharpshooter) and underutilized Ike Diogu for depth. I think Nate McMillan is a FANTASTIC coach and the whole organization loves/respects the hell out of him. Nate McMillan got 45-37 out of THIS roster in his first full season as a coach:

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=SEA&yr=2001&lg=N

Wow. I’m not sure that team had 7 or 8 consistent and competent rotation players, but took 2 of 5 from the Spurs including Game 2 in San Antonio. I know plenty of good teams suck in the first round, but Duncan won his first (of back-to-backs) MVP that year. He could beat that Seattle squad by himself.

THIS Portland team (with passable Mo Cheeks) went 4 games better, 49-33 that year:

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=POR&lg=N&yr=2001

+1,000,000 Nate McMillan because that Portland roster should be about 12-15 games better.

Dunleavy not withstanding, the Clips have the 2 single best shot-blockers/game from last season on the same floor! I may have high expectations for Gordon, but most people would agree that Thornton is a stud. If the Clips stay healthy, that team is great. Whether you like him or not, Dunleavy knows his way through the playoffs. Terry Porter? I LIKE him, but he’s no playoff success thus far.

@James B. – I just mentioned ATL because they deserved to be on the list, not that I’m singling them out as the poster team of the improving East.

@Toledo Joe and BBJones – The top 2 of the East can compete with the top of the West. But after that it isn’t even close. NO-Orlando, Utah-Toronto, Cle-SA, Washington-Houston, Phoenix-Philly…those would all be pushing sweeps for the West. Just because a team who is a contender for the last spot of the West would be competitive against a team who is a contender for the last spot of the East doesn’t mean the conferences are close. I like the way the East is headed, but there is still a huge difference between the two.

“Well J. Smith signed an offer sheet with the Grizz, so no chance of a sign and trade”

Can’t ATL still give Josh Smith more money and then still trade him?
Not sure how this stuff works.

If ATL lets Smith sign at Memphis for such a reasonable deal, we can cross them right off the East contenders. Although Memphis wouldn’t look bad: Conley, Mayo, Gay, Smith, Darko and a bench of Lowry, Crittenton, Darrell Arthur, and Warrick. That team would be pretty fun to watch.

I dunno. That Memphis line-up depends heavily on Conley and how well he can put it together this year. Definitely entertaining though.

Think Josh Smith actually wants to play for Memphis, or is just eager to get something done with ATL (or elsewhere)?

@Shinons:
“Phoenix-Philly…those would all be pushing sweeps for the West.”

I’d put my money on Philly in a best of seven against Phoenix. Miller, Iquodala, Young, Brand and Dalembert plus a nicely stacked bench— add the energy they showed against DET last season, they’re formidable against anyone in either conference next season.

As for the Clippers making it to the playoffs— I’m sure there are a lot of people here (myself included) who would put down money that the Clips won’t make it to the playoffs this season.

Aaron: The Hawks wouldn’t be able to trade Josh Smith until Dec. 15th, so yes they could still “trade him” this season, but no, they couldn’t turn around and do it this off-season. Realistically, I anyone is making a blockbuster involving a (five-year I’m guessing?) $58 million contract less than 7 months after inking it. I guess it’s not impossible, but I can’t think of a time it’s happened recently.

If it’s for five years $58 million, I think that is kinda what Smith wanted/expected to get. He certainly seems to be worth the money if he keeps his production up and he’ll only be 28 when the deal wraps in 2013. Hell, he could/should get a bigger one in 2013. This one is about $10 million more total than Tayshaun got for five years starting in ‘06-’07. I don’t know if this is a bad omen for Woodson in the ATL if the Hawks match or if Smith’s posturing expired, and both parties will give way to a “let’s try to work together” attitude. I’m guessing the latter. We shall see.

MP: Is there an expiration date on that offer or is it hypothetical?

This is old news but the Clippers rescinded their offer sheet to PF Nick Fazekas so now he is an unrestricted FA. Get Fazekas in here Joe D! His Per48 ratings are better than Amir Johnson, Carl Landry, and David Lee.>>

I agree with JoeJoeJoe on this one but for a different reason.

I would love to hear John Mason announce "Nick Fazeeeeekes, Deeeeeetroit Baasketball.

Thanks for clearing that up, LB. Yeah… not likely to trade him then. I could see ATL letting him walk though. They would have a ton of cap space once Bibby is gone, and still have a good core of JJ and Horford.

So Memphis kind of traded Gasol for Josh Smith (if ATL doesn’t match). And they still have cap space coming with Antoine Walker, right?

I think Atlanta will match that…

My hope is the Hawks get off to a bad start, Smith is unhappy that they matched in the first place, and we make our big move midseason.

Aaron, I’m not sure how you see Atl letting him walk. I think it’s common knowledge that their management is handicapped, but to not match after childress bolted would be inexcusable. Although, it does seem like they’re in a dog fight with Memphis to be the most mis-managed team in the L.

According to HoopsHype.com, Pau Gasol costs more this season than: OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay, Hakim Warrick, Mike Conley Jr., Kyle Lowry and Javaris Crittenton combined. Add Darrell Arthur to the other six players, and they combine for a salary costing only $645,949 more than Pau Gasol does this season. Gasol went 0-12 in playoff games as the Memphis go-to guy. He’s due over $17.8 million in the ‘10-’11 season I’m just saying.

I’m just saying Atlanta knows Smith better than anyone else and they have their own plans for their own team. Letting him go would be a brutal blow to their fanbase… i wasn’t saying they should or shouldn’t. I will say i think he is better having JJ and Horford to play off of.

I think the Knicks and Wolves still beat out Memphis for poor management. In fact, Memphis seems like they are just in the middle of transition. How they use this ca$h will determine how well they are managed.

Aaron: Pretty much my point was actually to say what you said re: Knicks, Wolves and Memphis. I think West was phoning it in for Memphis toward the end of his time there. Wallace is passable. The Gasol trade everyone kills Wallace for. Wallace can probably get Memphis to the playoffs in two years with this squad if OJ Mayo delivers on the hype. Warrick, Gay, a presumably improving Conley and if Mayo can drop 20/night by his 2nd season (Gay just proved it can be done in Memphis) is a nice, ultra-young core. If the Lakers can’t make it back to the Finals within two seasons, and Memphis makes the playoffs, I’d say Wallace wins the deal. I’m not saying it WILL happen, but it’s certainly not really out of the realm of possibility.

In the Knicks defense, Donnie Walsh is very competent. He’s only been on the job for a few months and he’s made some nice changes so far. I like the D’Antoni hiring and the Gallinari pick. Why it took them this long to dismiss Isiah and turn to Walsh, obviously no one knows that one.

The eastern playoff teams look to be better this season, at least to the point where a 43 win team won’t be the 5th seed. Brand should put Philly on the second tier, Washington will presumably get a full year out of Arenas, and Toronto was able to address some of its defensive issues by snagging O’Neal (losing an injury prone player who was redundant). Even some of the dregs look to improve. Wade’s healthy after a leisurely season of tanking, Chicago will probably bounce back a bit, and the kids in Charlotte could be on a good path if they listen to Larry Brown.

The west is still clearly better, but it looks like the east beefed up a little this season.

Paul, you shouldn’t sleep on those bucks..

On Memphis offering J. Smith a contract: My guess is this is definitely a friendly effort by Memphis to Atlanta. Last year Varejoke was holding out with the Cavs and another team came in and made him an offer which was much lower than what he was looking for which allowed the Cavs to match and re-sign.

With Okafor getting a $72 million contract over 6 years, my guess is Smith felt he deserved something that was equal or greater. 5 years, $58 million is a very very manageable contract. Its almost as if Memphis purposefully low-balled them.

On the East vs. West debate:

The argument has never really been who is better on top. Over the past 5 years, the East has come out on top 3 out of 5 times and one of the other two times was as close to a push as you can get (Game 7 Det. vs. San).

But across the conference, the West has clearly had better and more competitive basketball than the East. You had teams winning 48 and 49 games and not making the playoffs in the West last year while Atlanta was a number of games below .500 and filling the 8th seed.

I do think this is changing though. Hell if Chicago and Cleveland had started the season the way everyone expected them to, if Arenas and Caron Butler hadn’t been injured for numbers of games, if the Heat had actually played like a team and D. Wade had not been injured, if the Knicks had someone who knew how to coach/manage a team, then the balance in the two conferences would have been much closer.

I’m with Craig on that one…

@LB:
“MP: Is there an expiration date on that offer or is it hypothetical?”

How about now? I’m willing to make a friendly wager…

MP: Perhaps further discussions to be had off of DBB?

@LB:
Sure, that’s fine. However, I do have an alternative that might get the DBB community involved— and provide for a whole lot of comedy. Besides, making a comment-trackable bet on this website could have legal implications, nothing I would EVER want to befall Matt or this wonderful site (partially for selfish reasons, since I visit here 20+ times per day) :)

Here’s my thought: The loser eats crow. On video. And posts it on DBB.

Sure, the subject of this bet is kind of boring, especially since it’s not Pistons-related. But the bet itself is exciting as hell: The loser eats crow on video and posts it on DBB (or links to a youtube vid from dbb). Seriously. Whoever loses has to actually eat crow and record it on video, then post the result on DBB. As I’ve linked to before, crow is quite edible, and for you and I living in or near two of the three largest cities in the US, I bet we could find a restaurant or a chef that serves crow.

So we eat it on video for the community to watch, point fingers at, and laugh.

My only remaining question— since this bet isn’t Pistons-related, maybe we hold off until we as a community find a disagreement worthy of the Ultimate DBB Crow Bet? Maybe we as a community demand that Matt challenge another blogger to a 2008-09 NBA Season Crow Bet?

Let’s get the wheels turning… (but if for now, LB, you’d like to entertain a small wager of the green kind offline, I’m open to it)

Shinons and James B.:

Yeah, I agree that the East is competitive at the top couple of spots with the West, but after that it gets iffy. Before last year, I wouldn’t even have said “iffy”: it was clear that after the second or maybe third best team, the West was way better. Three things make me question that now. First, Boston handled LA relatively easily — more easily than Boston handled Detroit, the Cavs, or even Atlanta — and LA wasn’t really threatened in the Western playoffs. Second, as several have said, the East is getting tougher: I think Philly getting Brand is huge (if he’s healthy); same for Toronto and Jermaine O. (same if). Third, meanwhile, some teams in the West are getting worse (I mean you, Suns and Mavs).

I guess I still think that the teams who lost in the semi-finals in the West were probably better than the teams who lost in the semi-finals in the East last year, but it’s getting tighter.

No one has postulated on an east conference regular season standings yet?

I’ll start!

boston
detroit
orlando
philadelphia
cleveland
washington
toronto
milwaukee

Phili
Detroit
Cleveland
Boston (i think there will be a PP or KG injury)
Washington
Orlando
Indiana
Toronto

I say we arrange a Nathan Jawai/Devon Hardin game of one-on-one. That would be a crow worthy bet.

Eazy Yi is going to bust out and lead Milwaukee to the playoffs.

snickers

@PG4L:
Easy Yi the New Jersey Net?

Indeed. I have to be honest, I forgot the Nets traded for him. I mean it was easy enough to do. He’s terrible, they’re terrible…

Oh well. I’d feel bad but umm… see above about both parties being terrible.

QD: “I say we arrange a Nathan Jawai/Devon Hardin game of one-on-one. That would be a crow worthy bet.”

Let me know how many people want Hardin so I can make sure I have enough money in the bank to buy a big enough grill to cook all that crow.

The East is tough to predict in part because some teams are going to rely on players who are old and/or injury risks. Toronto with a consistently healthy O’Neal could be very tough. Philly with a consistently healthy Brand could be very tough. And all of the Boston “big three” have a lot of tread on the tires." Heck, so have many of Detroit’s best players. And you have to think the Cavs are going to make some moves.

Having said that, I’ll go:

Boston
Detroit
Philly
Toronto
Cavs
Orlando
Atlanta
Washington

I’m going to go:

Boston
Detroit
Orlando
Philly
Cavs
Wiz
Toronto
Charlotte

hmm

the addition of Brand makes Philly 2 games better than last season, and better than anything Toronto can put out there on the floor to be honest.

The addition of virtually no one costs the Cavs a spot, but Wiz fans should be happy because according to me they don’t lose in the first round to the Cavs this year.

I think Charlotte sneaks in. I think Toronto is overrated and I think Orlando is only ranked #3 because Cleveland and Wiz haven’t done anything except continue to get older.

Of course, Detroit could slip, but I think with the young bucks continuing to grow and contribute, Detroit could easily jump above BOS.

RE: Jawai/Hardin, I haven’t seen either of those fools play.

RE: East. Might as well go against the grain.

Philly
Boston
Orlando
Detroit
Cleveland
Miami
Toronto
Chicago

Atlanta
Washington
Indiana
Charlotte
Milwaukee
Brooklyn
New York

I think it’s way too early to be making predictions about the East when a handful of important free agents remain unsigned. Ben Gordon is still talking about not going back to Chicago. Though that probably won’t come to pass, there’s no way to gauge the Bulls and/or Gordon until his contract status is resolved. Paxson could presumably roll the dice on a (cheaper) J.R. Smith instead of ponying up the loot to Gordon. The Bulls can probably only afford to pay Ben Gordon $9 million this year without going over the luxury tax threshold (read: John Paxson should be fired yesterday). He’s got to be mighty pissed when he’ll be playing for less money than Hinrich, Hughes, and Deng.

Then there’s the unsigned Iguodala in Philly and even Cleveland with Delonte West. It’s not that Delonte West is that good, it’s just that having Delonte West + Boobie Gibson seems to me to be the equivalent of having one and a half healthy point guards. Who wants to cut ties with West and be stuck with one PG who’s healthy 75% of the time?

I’d have to think Chris Wallace in Memphis has been on the phone with the representation for Ben Gordon, J.R. Smith and Andre Iguodala. I like OJ Mayo as much as the next guy, but should he be their starting SG on opening night? For their sake, I sure hope not.

I highly doubt Philly lets Iguodala go unless he takes his non-jump shooting ass overseas

unless they’re able to trade Iggy for DeVon Hardin of course

“I think it’s way too early to be making predictions about the East when a handful of important free agents remain unsigned.”

I’m sure many of us think there aren’t any more surprises left in the East— and nothing is stopping us from having a little fun with it. Besides, Ben Gordon? Chicago’s stacked back-court of rose, hinrich, hughes and gordon doesn’t lose much if you remove one of those four (especially one who has proven he can’t be a reliable starter). If it’s Gordon, Chicago’s record won’t change much.

Its looking likely that Gordon won’t have a deal with Chicago, even he doesn’t think so.

Surprised to see people sleeping on Milwaukee, but maybe I’m alone on that one. With Bogut coming off a huge year, Jefferson coming off a huge year, Redd being Redd and amazing point guard potential in Ramon Sessions, they could surprise a lot of people (especially if Villanueva can stay healthy).

I mostly agree with Boney and MP’s lists (identical except the last spot), except I’m not sure about Detroit’s positioning. They should be a division winner, but they may slip in the standings some. Toronto could pass the Wiz, and I think Philly could be higher than Orlando.

Adding Brand covers a big weakness, since they were starting Reggie Evans the majority of the year and didn’t get much scoring from their big men. Thad Young should make an excellent backup for him. They still don’t have any great shooters, though.

Orlando lost most of its backcourt this offseason (Evans, Arroyo, Dooling). None of these guys were great, but they were all useful role players who either could either hit threes or make good passes within Dwight’s range (one foot from the basket).

The last spot is kind of up for grabs. Not feeling Milwaukee. Their lack of commitment defensively is pretty amazing, and I don’t see RJ turning that around. I think it’s more likely that one of Chicago or Miami bounces back in a big way and takes it.

MP: If you don’t have Gordon going back to Chicago, that means he doesn’t play in the NBA next year, goes to Memphis as a FA, or gets a sign and trade. By my count, a sign and trade gives him a 48.3 % (14 of 29 trading partners) probability of Ben Gordon going to another Eastern Conference team. In actuality, a sign and trade nearly stamps his ticket to another team in the East.

Let’s say an East team gets Gordon for .50 on the dollar. Sure, it doesn’t seem likely at first glance, but all kinds of scenarios are fiscally possible, especially if Chicago wants to throw Hinrich into the deal. I think you’re quick to dismiss the significance of Gordon’s impact on another team if he actually wishes to make good on his words. It’s not because Chicago matters, poor choice of words from me earlier, but because the team that would wind up with Gordon (ie: Wiz, Cavs, Raptors, etc.) gets a huge boost. A team with DeShawn Stevenson, Wally Szczerbiak or Anthony Parker starting at SG undeniably gets better by trading scraps and/or aforementioned starting SG for Ben Gordon.

Here’s the article:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/1099677,gordon080908.article

It’s not from Jay Mariotti, so no need to point and laugh upon clicking the link.

Mike Payne:

Re Milwaukee, although I wasn’t posting here a year ago, I’ve picked the Bucks as a sleeper in the East for like the last four straight years — and they proved me wrong each time. If they do really well this year, the first time in a long time I haven’t picked them to make the playoffs, well, I’ll be SO MAD. . . .

MP loves Ramon Sessions. I’m not at all saying he’s wrong on that, though I don’t know of anyone else as big on Sessions as MP. Entirely possible MP is just way ahead of the curve, certainly wouldn’t be the first time for that. Me, I’m a huge Mo Williams fan, but I’m well aware that the highest number of games Mo’s played in the last 3 seasons is 68. That increases the likelihood of Sessions and/or Lue on multi-game starter duty. We know Lue is crap, if Sessions is as good as the hype, it would be no biggie.

They added RJ, who scored as much as Redd this past season. If RJ is that good in Milwaukee, that’s huge. RJ really needs to get his rebounding back to what it was in ‘05-06 and before. In NJ, that could’ve just been a function of hustle players: Mikki Moore in ‘06-’07 and Boone in ‘07-’08. It also may not at all be that. If Milwaukee stays healthy (huge if) and Jefferson gets his boards (mild if), count me in on the Milwaukee bandwagon.

Sorta on point with what I was saying earlier about rosters not being complete. Kelly Dwyer speculates …

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Trading-Andre-Iguodala;_ylt=AoCGgeYJI.9sRFjblmxUoOCkvLYF?urn=nba,98268

I agree with TJ’s lookout more than boney’s.
I can’t see toronto slipping beneath 5th place with O’neal in thier lineup when all the gave up really is a redundant PG

Interesting read:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080809/SPORTS03/808090385/1051

Not particularly liking the sound of this part:

“To be honest with you, I haven’t been looking at what’s going on,” he said. “Everything eventually is going to take care of itself. A lot of guys worry about trade rumors. I’m the type of guy, I know that wherever I end up, I know I can help the team.”

The rest of the article goes on to say that the team will likely return intact, so it’s hardly NEWS or anything. But it doesn’t sound like Tay feels all that wanted to me.

Which is sad, because frankly I want him on our team until he retires if that’s what he wants. I understand that if we were to make a huge superstar trade, he’s almost automatically “the other piece” because of salaries… but I was ALWAYS hoping deep down inside the Pistons wouldn’t have to give him up.

PG4L, I’m with you. He’s the last player of the core I want to see leave. I think he’s still the hungriest of the four.

ohad,

Of course I’d rank Toronto higher if I believed that Jermaine O’Neal was going to remain healthy, or if I trusted their bench.

@QD: i second that motion. i’d trade him last.
@Boney: They did pretty well with a disfunctional center last season all season long so i think this could only be good for them. Also i think they should play Maceo Baston over nesterovic since he is so much more athletic. Then again, people in wheelchairs are more athletic than nesterovic….

That Wade to James oop was sick. That was like the All-Star game if the players weren’t hungover.

Well I am bloody ropable. Australia loses, but worse was that our Olympic broadcaster over here showed 8 mins of the game. Total. Then they showed a repeat of a swimming heat.
At least I get to watch the US game live.
Sometimes I really hate living here.

Melo’ is just a selfish player on offense and he disappears on D. I hope we don’t trade for him….ever

Meh, I’ve switched to the Hungary/Montenegro water polo match.

Ohad: Did you mean they should’ve “played” Baston over Nesterovic? Neterovic went to Indiana in the JO deal. Also, congratulations on prompting the first non-sarcastic Boney post. If only I knew your secret.

Re: Olympics, I wonder what Kobe thought of his new teammate Sun Yue after the rout of China.

Assuming Boston stays healthy and Milwaukee plays to what there “perceived” potential is. In all honesty, Miami/Washington are n my opinion, a toss up, I just don’t care for Gilbert.

1-Boston
4-Philly
5-Toronto
New York
New Jersey

2-Detroit
6-Milwaukee
7-Cleveland
Chicago
Indiana

3-Orlando
8-Miami
Washington
Atalanta
Charlotte

Here is an interesting Chad Ford article, I haven’t seen any posts on it here, forgive me if it is redundant, but he makes some interesting points, I disagree with him that the playoffs are a stretch for Milwaukee, if Skiles can get them to buy into his Defense, Milwaukee will be good.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Offseason-080804

todays US squad would loose against todays spanish team by at least 15 points.

No Tayshaun vs. China thread?

I caught most of the second half. Defensively, the US got hung up on picks away from the ball a lot but China couldn’t make any shots.

How was Sun Yue? The Lakers just agreed to terms with him.

Last week’s gauntlet winner with Mr. Big Shot, Chauncey Billups!

I know you guys dislike but respect Wade, so I put him against Gilbert Arenas in the latest Gauntlet. Who would you rather have on your team?

NBAGauntlet.com. It looks like it’s a close race.

Preliminarily…

Detroit
Philly
Boston
Toronto
Cleveland
Orlando
Washington
Miami

Milwaukee is improved, and I like the Joe Alexander pick, but I see Jefferson’s production coming back to earth this year, and they still can’t play defense.

I was really frustrated with the selfishness of the players on the floor with Tayshaun. I think he touched the ball on offense once, not a single pass made to him, but he had one offensive rebound. He had 3 boards total in like 5 minutes of PT, and set at least 9 screens in his time on offense, those 9 screens led to Michael Redd threes and deron williams drives. If only one of them had looked at Tay open on the wing just once :-(

LB,

The secret is, don’t be a know it all douche. Especially when you don’t know it all.

ohad,

There’s a reason Maceo Baston has spent most of his career overseas since his “domination” of other 6’7 Big 10 “Power forwards”… and that’s because he’s just not that good. If Baston was 7’1 he’d take Przybilla’s place on LB’s wish list.

I get what you’re selling for Toronto, but that doesn’t mean I buy it. Calderon could very easily wash out as quickly as he came on the scene. It’s nice to have a solid 3 guard rotation, it’s too bad Toronto traded from their real strength for a guy who has seen better days. They still don’t have a real solid backcourt, even with Calderon.

nice guards for Toronto:

Calderon
Hassan Adams,
Parker
Willie Solomon
Roko Ukic…

Unless other teams see value in Kris Humphries or Bargnani, I’m not seeing exactly why they need another big man…

This is off-topic, I know. I also know we have a large international contingent here, but:

Holy freaking hell, did anybody watch the men’s 4 × 100m free? That was the most excited I’ve been over an Olympic sport maybe ever. That was in-freaking-credible. The way we closed that last 50 m was impossible, there was no way he could make that up. Utterly ridiculous.

@Other Matt:
If you spot a video of that, YouTube or otherwise, I’d love to see it.

Other Matt,

Had to watch it live on CBC since NBC sucks at broadcasting live on the West Coast. Honestly, if the gold medal was live at 11:26 PM EST, then why not have it live at 8:26 PM PST? What kind of BS is this BS? Certainly not the kind of BS that I’m willing to put up with.

In any event, I’ve watched it twice on CBC and will be waiting up until 11:26 PM PST to watch it “LIVE” on NBC.

@boney – It’s not about domination. yes baston isn’t the best center i’ve seen around and yes he has limited postup abilities but he’s a great defender and rebounder and he has what very little bigmen do – he moves well without the ball and he has good hands.
I remember one of the pacer’s assitant coaches who got interviewed and asked how he thought baston fits the group. He said that they brought him in with little expectations but then in practice they let him guard jermaine o’neal and he was the only one on the team who could match up with him.
Again, i don’t think he the next massaiah but i do think he could have played the starting center instead of nesterovic.

What i do think will be the fall of toronto is their mentality which is to “shoot through the bad stretches”. they would let bosh and ford miss a zillion shots instead of trying to get the other players involved. it cost them more than one game.

And yes, I can’t remember the last time I jumped out of my seat and yelled at the top of my lungs, “SUCK IT LONG AND SUCK IT HARD FRANCE!!!!”

James B.: Yeah, what is with those of us in the Pacific Time Zone getting stuff three hours behind? I was reading about Phelps’s 400 IM win on Yahoo! and then wham, I look on NBC, and the race is on with the word “Live” at the top of the screen. Total crap.

And the lack of non-USA basketball coverage is killing me. Am I just missing the non-USA games or are they not being broadcast on NBC Universal’s networks? I don’t want to have to wait until Saturday to see Spain play when they get the USA. Four current NBA players, three former NBA players, and a 17 year-old wunderkind who could go #1 in the draft next year. I’d like to watch this team.

And dude, J.R. Holden is KILLING it for Russia. Who could imagine that a dude from Pittsburgh, with no ties to mother Russia goes and becomes a citizen and balls better than Kirilenko thus far in the Olympics and exhibitions? Apparently, Holden loves him some Russia.

Move to a better side of the world and you’ll be aok.

@Cheers:
You get to see the Pistons play in person there, do ya? :)

MP, here’s the 4 × 100 in its entirety:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/share.html?videoid=0811_hd_swb_hl_l0194

By the way, if you hang on and watch all 12 minutes of that video, you’ll be rewarded with one of our guys calling France, “the Frenchies”. Which makes the whole thing that much better.

MP: In Cheers’s defense, he was sitting right next to me in Conseco Fieldhouse when Tay blocked Reggie. I bet YOU didn’t see that in person, did you? :) Cheers has been to enough Pistons games to take a European respite for a year or two. Going to Indiana University between 2002-2006 had its advantages beyond the obvious.

I wasn’t knocking Cheers (or his fanhood) just the assertion of a “better side of the world” when it comes basketball. Can you defend that?

LB,

I’ll give you props for seeing that Tay block live. I think I walked around with a raging hard on for 3 days after that block…

But you still have -672 cool points in my book.

Whereas Mike Payne, my tag team partner, remains leader of the pack at +983 cool points with Matt Watson following close behind at +978 and Sauce at +796

@Boney:
Sweet! As cool points are accumulated, can they be exchanged for prizes like they had on the back of those kids magazines in the early 80s?

No way do I have more cool points than Matt Watson, though. Matt is in the six-figures here on DBB.

My second favorite block:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWo-VA1mf6Y

+6,500 cool points to me and Cheers for also being behind the other hoop so we could see the play develop before Tay even came into frame on TV. I’ll have to ask Mr. Cheers what he recalls, but I think I said something like “If Reggie doesn’t dunk it, Tay’s going to get him.” I do very clearly remember laughing at all the dejected Pacer fans. It just so happens that we were sitting nearby a little girl (so is that +8,000 or -8,000 for teasing a little Pacers fan?) which makes the mocking better/worse.

The best part about going to games at Conseco, is that the place has a large, central foyer (think Ford Field, not the Palace). Whenever I went to a Pistons victory at Conseco (probably 4 times out of 5), there were tons of Pistons fans, as is par for the course at any opposing team’s venue I’ve ever been to. The reason the foyer is awesome, is because you’d get a few hundred Pistons fans otherwise not connected, congregating in the foyer chanting “DEEE-TROIT BAS-KET BALL!!!” for minutes on end after victories. It was like one big celebratory huddle that seriously pissed off Pacers fans.

I dunno about Cheers, Shinons or any other IU alums on DBB, but after the brawl, I actually had friends who wouldn’t talk to me for a few days because I was a Pistons fans. That was pretty crazy.

MP: Man, Ben was such an athletic freak. I have never seen a block like that before or since. Tay’s block, while unbelievably clutch and awesome, could have probably been executed by a number of players (The DBB loved/maligned Josh Smith comes to mind) in the NBA. But Ben’s, I can’t think of anyone else who can do that. As for Shaq youtube clips that rule, I gotta go with this one (it makes me not want to hate Shaq despite 2004-2006):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajcY_MJHLng

Also, bonus clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn4lhTPtpUU&feature=related

Ah yes, Ben’s block on Shaq — I had some fun with that back then.

I loved Shaq’s post-game reaction to the play:

"That was a foul, young lady," Shaquille O’Neal said to a female reporter. "You know it was a foul. Don’t ask dumb questions."

@Matt:
I remember that post— and funny enough, I remember thinking the same thing seeing that block (how one play can turn everything around).

Good reading that again, that was a damn good post :)

QD: the Nathan Jawai/Devon Harden one-on-one game will have to take place in Turkey. Free DeVon!

MP: Ah, thanks. Yeah, I just read it again, too — I used to be able to write. What happened?

Well, Matt gets cool points simply for hanging out with your boy here… but he lost some when he slapped my hand and told me to stop instigating LB.

LB,

You don’t get cool points for taunting Indy fans unless you’re taunting:

1. the author of IndyCornrows who blamed Detroit for Indiana’s sudden lack of relevance

2. Larry Bird

But you’re warming up in the bullpen for Team Boney man… you’re coming around, either that, or I’m not being that much of an uppity dick anymore.

You’re still way off base on DeVon Hardin, as Matt Watson states the obvious above. Hopefully you get Turkish tv stations on your TV, your boy is likely to be buried on the bench for some team that plays with a striped ball overseas.

Lost in the glory of that Tayshaun block is Rip making a 90 degree turn and getting that ball before it went out of bounds.

Boney, I’m not sure what exactly Nathan Jawai did to receive your endless love. You can continue to hype him, but Joe passed, in fact, 9 teams (with eleven picks) after Joe passed on him too. We got Kwame, and I would take Kwame over pretty much any 2nd round C ‘cept possibly DeAndre Jordan. If you’d take Jawai over Kwame, I wouldn’t even know what to say to you. I wouldn’t be surprised at all, but I sure wouldn’t have the words. Keep hoping that we’re going to trade Kwame if that’s what gets you through the cold nights of the off-season. He’s going to be a Piston for 22 games before your dream is even allowed to come to fruition under the CBA. That should be enough time for him to show his worth.

I’m not quite sure what you expect from Jawai, but his two-year deal (worth probably $1 million or less total) is a direct result of the Raptors’ lack of front-court depth. They hope he can fill Rasho’s shoes finger twirl. Seattle has a ton of big guys and that’s why Hardin is playing in Europe. Neither is a cause to champion on the NBA level, at least immediately. Same thing with the lights-out shooting Shan Foster in Dallas. Too many shooting guards, so Foster and his 47% three-point shooting is sent packing to Europe.

I’m not really seeing why the fact that Jawai made a roster by default (and hasn’t even played a minute in the NBA) allows him to maintain such cachet with you, but then again, I haven’t really been able to follow most of your logic for the better part of two years.

-6,000 for still salivating over a 41st overall pick who hasn’t played in a game yet.

LB, not to jump in the middle of another feud with Boney, but I’m pretty sure that Jawai is a random guy that Boney jumped on as a sarcastic way of poking fun at your endless campaigning for DeVon Hardin.

But, I could be way off base. Boney, correct me if I’m wrong.

*tags somebody, anybody else

*runs away from other matt, goes and hides under the table making carpet noises

Go tag one of the newer guys. Besides, I’m foreign, god knows what you’ll catch :)

“I dunno about Cheers, Shinons or any other IU alums on DBB, but after the brawl, I actually had friends who wouldn’t talk to me for a few days because I was a Pistons fans.”

Friends, family, acquaintences, random strangers passed by on the street…living in Indy, the hostility lasted quite a while. Let’s just say bars that carry NBATV weren’t quite as inclined to put the Pistons games on for me and my wife as they once were.

I never said I’d take Jawai over Kwame.

I said I’d take Jawai over Hardin and that’s been the discussion ever since.

I think Jawai has a chance to be a bruiser in the paint, I think he has a chance to be Nene… Nene’s been pretty productive in his career, when healthy.

It’s never been about Jawai over anyone else, it’s been about Jawai and Hardin and that’s it. Last I checked, the Raptors have an assload of big men. Jawai will have an impact this season in the NBA whereas the likely snuggly soft DeVon Hardin will continue to be mediocre in Turkey.

Boney, apparently you haven’t checked recently, because an “assload” of big men is the farthest thing from what’s on the floor for the Raptors. If it were someone who actually paid attention to stuff I’d be shocked to hear them say that (ie: they wouldn’t), but no research is par for the course here. The Raps have O’Neal, Bosh and Kris Humphries (listed 6’9", 235 or 240) and Bargnani and those are their only players at 6’9" and above and/or 230 pounds or more. If the Raps had more than 3 other legit big men, Bargnani wouldn’t see the court as a C, probably not even a PF. The Raps have tried to make him play out of position at C because they’re desperate. That’s four guys ahead of Jawai on the depth chart for PF and/or C, one being completely a perimeter guy at heart and only a “big” because of his height.

By comparison, the OKC SuperSonics have Petro, Sene and maybe Ibaka at C alone. As for big PFs, they’ve got Collison, Wicox and Donyell Marshall. Plus, we sent them D.J. White, who is a less mobile, but more post-offensively polished version of Maxiell. That’s seven players competing for slots that fit Hardin. Even I wouldn’t champion Hardin’s cause on that roster. Jawai, on the other hand, is going up against four players (O’Neal, Bosh, Humphries and Bargnani), one of whom is a very poor man’s Turkoglu, not a big.

If Jawai even has an impact (doubtful), it’s because he’s playing for the Raptors and probably because O’Neal can’t stay healthy. Because if O’Neal is healthy, they’re probably riding him and Bosh for 36 minutes a game. Kris Humphries and Bargnani (who really should play SF w/O’Neal and Bosh out there) are going to get a large chunk of the remaining 24 minutes at PF and C. Celebrate that Jawai is way bigger than Hardin and that he went 9 picks earlier, but I don’t know where some of your arguments come from in terms of fact. Is it so much to ask for you to be either well-researched and/or modest at times?

One of these days I should make a log of all the completely stupid crap you say LB.

So Bargs should be a SF should he? Despite the fact that he doesn’t move well enough to play at the 5 in the NBA… you want him to cover star SF’s in the NBA?

Jesus LB, watch some basketball.

/done wit dis guy

First off – I don’t get offensive often but pistons girl 4 life, you need to chill out. I love how you believe every single thing you say is right. If I wasted the time to read your threads, I can tell you half the bull you say is garbage anyways. I don’t know why you think you have any right to bag on people like LB. Each person has their own opinion. I feel like you were the fat girl who always got picked on and now you’re trying to get revenge on someone.

On that note, it’s a shame not to be able to attend Pistons game being over in London Mr. Payne, I’ll give you that. But my previous experiences of 5 consecutive eastern conference finals on the floor should suffice :) But even more so then that, as LB alluded too, I think the best satisfaction is playing a team away and beating them on their own court. Indiana Pacers 2004 was amazing. Wouldn’t trade anything for it in the world.

Try to keep up w/ Olympics bball for all teams.. Spain looks solid.

Cheers

I’m 6 foot even and 160 lbs.

That having been said… your complaint is noted and filed under “OMFG Nobody has EVER told me to shut up before… I’m peeing myself as we speak…”

LB,

No, it’s not too much for you to ask me to do research. I guess what’s too much to ask you in return is to remember what f-ing conversations we had prior to the draft about who the Pistons should pick first. I guess you forgot that you, and some brainwashed others that followed your lead, decided that DeVon Hardin was somehow the chosen one who should’ve gone to Detroit for guaranteed money in the 1st round.

At that point I argued that Detroit should take a flyer on a guy who has more upside than a Pac10 creampuff. I said I think Jawai would be a better fit because, by what I’ve seen, he has a bit of a mean streak in him.

Then you started sarcastically proclaiming “HARDIN FOR PRESIDENT” or some shit like DeVon Hardin should be dancing with sugar plum fairies in Joe Dumars’ brain before draft night.

By the way, that is an intimidating list of big men blocking Hardin’s progression to the NBA. I mean Mouhamed Sene, Johan Petro? Tell me again why Michael Gelabale would be good in a Pistons’ uniform?

Perhaps

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t DeVon Hardin guaranteed to be drafted by the Pistons if he were to come out last year and forego his senior year?

I’m not saying anything about how the kid is going to turn out, but man, “perhaps” Joe D saw something in this kid. If Joe D was promising this kid to be a piston, I don’t see why it is so unreasonable for others to see potential in this pac10 creampuff.

Seriously mate, you and pistons girl 4 life should go on a date. Not sure if she only likes chicks but I’m sure if you buy her a nice piece of cake, you can get her in the sack.

Cheers, if you look behind yourself, you’ll see the line you just crossed. Not cool, rookie. DBB is no stranger to disputes, but don’t make it personal.

Ripping on Sene while loving on Amir just shows how lazy you are about players that don’t play for your team (or ones that do). Sene has essentially the same credentials and an NBDL DPoY award to boot. Petro is young and serviceable and has nice numbers per 36 minutes (the preferred pro-Amir argument statistic). Again, someone who watches the stuff they talk about would know this. Good one, douchebag.

JO, Bosh, Bargnani and Kris Humphries. Getting time in that front court (remains to be seen) is not automatically a ringing endorsement. Just because your team finished the season with more wins than the Lions doesn’t make them a good team.

Collison and Wilcox may not set the world on fire, but they’re seasoned pros who can score and board. Besides Hickson, Randolph, Speights and MAYBE the Lopez twins, I take Collison or Wilcox any day on my team. Long story short, don’t let facts, stats or side-by-side player comparisons stand in the way of sarcasm. Good lesson learned.

So wait…. the British kid who likes Lawyerboy just called me a fat Lesbian based on the fact that I need to chill out and don’t have the right to bag on people?

Priceless. This is like Chad Ford’s mailbag.

Here’s a free lesson kid. I’m better at this than you. Way better. You aren’t funny or ironic, you’re just a fucking troll.

Have a sweet day.

Iguodala: $80 million, six years.

Holy crap, the Sixers have a GM that knows how to run an NBA team!

I’m trying to figure out how Iggy is worth 13.33 million a year.

Not seeing it. Like, even paying for potential, not seeing it. WTF did Philly just do?

@Other Matt:
Agreed. Philly just went from intimidating to NASTY in just over a month. They’re a title contender now from the starters to the bench.

@PG4L:
Iguodala may not be worth $13 million on his own, but he’s worth $13 mil to the 6ers right now. With the addition of Elton Brand, they absolutely HAD to sign Iguodala. If they did overpay (and I don’t think they did), it was for the team, not just Iguodala. If Iguodala walked, Philly would have just been another perrenial first round NBA loser. The signing of Brand wouldn’t have made an impact on their post-season performance.

Iguodala isn’t worth more than $10, $11 elsewhere, but Philly did what they absolutely had to do by giving him $13.3. The paid an additional $2.3 mil to guarantee a NASTY squad in the next few seasons…

I’m with MP on this one. I like Iggy. I don’t think they overpaid. What the playoffs showed this year is that Philly can’t win in the playoffs with him as the primary option. I don’t think that means he can’t become their best player, I think Rasheed is our best player but is not our first or even second option. Iggy is a freak athletically, and with the addition of Brand, they can score in a lot of ways now. MP is right, Philly either had to sign Iggy or replace him adequately, which wasn’t going to happen next off-season if they didn’t lock him up long term or get Josh Smith this year.

Looks like I just bought a Sixer partial season ticket package.

“Iguodala may not be worth $13 million on his own, but he’s worth $13 mil to the 6ers right now.”

“Iguodala isn’t worth more than $10, $11 elsewhere, but Philly did what they absolutely had to do by giving him $13.3. The paid an additional $2.3 mil to guarantee a NASTY squad in the next few seasons…”

“I like Iggy. I don’t think they overpaid. What the playoffs showed this year is that Philly can’t win in the playoffs with him as the primary option.”

“Iggy is a freak athletically, and with the addition of Brand, they can score in a lot of ways now. MP is right, Philly either had to sign Iggy or replace him adequately, which wasn’t going to happen next off-season if they didn’t lock him up long term or get Josh Smith this year.”

In my opinion all of the above quotes typify what’s wrong with the league today. You’ve both admitted that the primary reason Iggy got as much money as he did is because “there was nobody else to give the money too and losing him would be a step backward”. That’s Kevin McHale/Billy King logic.

11 million? Try 9, tops. The guy is a 2nd option on a DECENT team and a 3rd option on a Championship roster. Good teams don’t pay players for what they MIGHT eventually do (The Detroit Lions do that btw) and they don’t pay good players “Star Money” just because they lack true stars. Philly just did both.

This is a horrible signing and I’m pretty much going to guarentee RIGHT now that eventually this is going to cost someone his job. Be it a coach or a GM. Someday, potentially VERY soon the 6ers are going to regret this deal.

PS, even with Brand? Philly isn’t ECF material. So paying 13.3 Million dollars a year for 2-3 more home dates tops? Questionable in my opinion.

Either way what do I care? Philly destroying their future by paying a 2nd-3rd fiddle like a soloist isn’t exactly BAD news for me as a Piston’s fan.

(Note, if any of that sounded hostile, it shouldn’t have. We just don’t agree. I can handle this, hopefully everyone else can too… not that either of you two have a history but I’m tired of being Darth Vaderette for having an opinion on this website)

I think he was overpaid, especially considering the contracts of the other young free agents this summer. Philly needed to resign him, but he was never a real threat to walk, and he probably could have been retained for around 10-11 mil a year. I’m actually a bit surprised that he was able to squeeze that much out of them after the playoffs he had.

His contract may be troublesome down the road when they have to resign Thad Young and Speights, but it won’t kill them short term. With Iggy, Brand, and good young guys like Thad Young and Lou Williams, the 76ers will probably be as good or better than Orlando was this year, although they still lack perimeter shooting and backcourt depth. I’d be wary of Andre Miller since his contract ends next season and he’s in his 30s, though.

Random rumor involving Central guys:
Cavs want Mo Williams, Bucks want Luke Ridnour, OKC probably wants expiring contracts.

I don’t like Mo Williams on a team with a lot of other good offensive players because he ballhogs and isn’t a good passer, but he could work on the Cavs, who have exactly one good offensive player.

If a deal goes through, the Bucks will probably get more than Ridnour, but I don’t know why they’re pursuing him. I figured moving Williams would mean more Sessions. Even if Ridnour is a backup, they can get a better player for Mo’s big contract. But Ridnour should fit right in with the Bucks because he’s a downright awful defensive player.

OKC, whatever.

I would love seeing Mo Williams on the Cavs. Yeah he can score, but it would take approximately 3-5 games before LeBron gave him a right hook for jacking up shots in the first five seconds of the shot clock on three consecutive possessions. Only The King is allowed to do that, of course. Not to mention, Stuckey or Billups would absolutely abuse him when he’s on defense. Please please please Cavs, trade for Williams.

On Iggy, I think it’s a fine signing. Everyone agrees that he’s not a number one guy, but he shouldn’t ever need to be. They’ve got Brand as their go-to guy for now and Louis Williams, a future go-to guy, locked up for the long term at a reasonable price. This team ought to be able to win their division, which gives them a real shot at making noise in the East – and they’ve also put together a strong core. Regardless if you’ve got a shot at being a top 5 team in your conference for the next couple years, you take it. After all, isn’t it just a matter of paying one of their top two guys an extra two or three million a year? It would be Kevin McHale/Billy King thinking if they didn’t have their other bases covered. If they made a signing like this before bringing in Brand and signing Williams (essentially making Iggy their franchise guy), I would be with PG4L killing it.

Incentives to push the contract past $80 mil? Too much. Iggy is good, but with miller’s contract coming up they should’ve left a little money for him or his replacement. Unless, they think they already have by signing williams. And that rumor, Paul, would be good for the bucks. I think Mo has been overpaid too, and also messes up their offense. Way too much shooting when you have Bogut on the blocks and redd on the wing. If they could get out from under his contract, I think they’d be fine with sessions and bell at the one, then redd, jefferson, charlie v. and bogut. I also think skiles will get them to play tough D, too. I’d love to see them pass chicago in the central this year. Love it.

Dam, Shinnons, you stole my post. But, I don’t think philly wins the division quite yet. Let’s wait for Ray-ray’s foot to fall off, or PP head to get so big that he can’t stand upright any more.

Yeah, they did play up to their offensive capabilities with Sessions running the point, which is why Mo moving on probably won’t be that bad for them. They should still be able to snag someone better than Ridnour, though.

I forgot about Skiles for some reason, but the team still doesn’t have defensive personnel. The Bucks pretty much have RJ, who used to be a good defender before his injuries, and Bogut, who draws charges and blocks shots but is a bit slow. The effort will be there with Skiles, though, as opposed to the complete matador D of this past year.

I still don’t see the Bucks making the playoffs, but I could be wrong. Central might not suck next year.

“Seriously mate, you and pistons girl 4 life should go on a date. Not sure if she only likes chicks but I’m sure if you buy her a nice piece of cake, you can get her in the sack.”

Ok first, I’m not your mate.

Second, don’t be a douche to someone who was never a part of the conversation. I don’t care how many reacharounds or circle jerks you participated in with LB, it doesn’t give you the right to be a douchebag to PG4L.

Third, LB? I know enough about what I know of to honestly say that Mouhamed Sene is a joke of a 1st round pick and that he will never make an impact for the Sonics/Thunder.

You’re interested in twisting this discussion into a statistical comparison between Jawai and whatever stiffs the Thunder have on their bench when really, you forgot where this entire argument/discussion started. You pressed for Hardin in the 1st round, I pressed for Jawai. Neither was chosen by Detroit in the 1st round, so the argument could’ve stopped there.

I sarcastically bring it up when our faithful leader says “Hardin to Turkey” by saying I knew Jawai would get a chance to stick in the league, because I think he’ll make a difference. You start rattling off Kenyans and Frenchmen who the Sonics have drafted who all of the sudden are ahead of a 4 year Pac10 Center who has an NBA body on the depth chart.

I honestly don’t care about Jawai or Hardin. I don’t care about some former lottery pick Kenyan who hasn’t been in the league yet who’s tearing up the D League, I believe Petro can be serviceable, but not on a contender… the only valuable big men on that roster are Wilcox and Collison. The others are borderline NBA players who are doing what they do, make the league minimum here or dominate the Euroleague against other stiffs like Zaza Pachulia and Primoz Brezec.

So take you, and your kiwi crotchfireman and take your noise to someone else that might listen. You want to compare the big men on Seattle’s team to the big men in Toronto after I said Jawai’s a better prospect than Hardin? Be my guest. Don’t be a smarmy, arrogant douche when someone says you’re wrong and calls you out for being an arrogant, smarmy douche.

PG4L,

You know, after reading what you wrote, I looked around at some other salaries and you’re right, they overpaid for Iggy. I don’t think they overpaid by a whole lot, maybe $3 mil. Our opinion of Iggy definitely differs. I think he’s going to be a real good player so I think the risk of overpaying him isn’t too big. But you’re right, I don’t see how he should be making more money than Josh Howard or Tayshaun Prince next season.

“Incentives to push the contract past $80 mil? Too much. Iggy is good, but with miller’s contract coming up they should’ve left a little money for him or his replacement. "

Louis Williams is the replacement.

I think Philly is a contender. Based on the way they finished the season, they were a good bet to win 45 games this year regardless. Signing Brand represents an enormous upgrade at the PF.

I think they’ll find some money by sending Willie Green packing, or at least finally bench him, which will be addition by subtraction. Williams and Young are very likely to improve as well.

If Iguodala had left the team, they would have been a 46 win team without the assets to make necessary improvements. That would get a GM fired. As such, they overpaid.

By the way, I don’t agree that overpaying him is a Billy King move. If they had to overpay to keep him after the investment they made in Brand, then that’s the right move. That’s a really good team with Iggy and Brand, if you remove Iggy from the equation, they’re right back to being a mediocre team that’s going to land somewhere in the 6-8 range in the East. This team has a real chance to be seeded anywhere from 1-4 with the right breaks (an injured Celtic or Piston).

I mentioned williams in the next line, kevin, but i’m not on the bandwagon quite yet. I’ve got a lot of respect for Miller esp. since he realized he’s not an outside shooter. I’ve yet to see williams, so perhaps he’s got next. Right now, i think he’s a downgrade.

“But, I don’t think philly wins the division quite yet. Let’s wait for Ray-ray’s foot to fall off, or PP head to get so big that he can’t stand upright any more.”

True. I was definitely off the mark with that comment. I guess I meant that they could end up as the third or fourth best team in the conference.

I think Philly is definitely a contender in the East this year, although I see them still being a step behind Detroit and Boston.

When you factor in the way they played down the stretch last year, the addition of Brand, Andre Miller in a contract year, plus some good young talent that should improve (Williams, Young, Igoudala, Speights)…they’ll have a chance to do some damage.

Something to add to the Philly debate that I think is important but I haven’t seen it talked about:

While I fully recognize that I’m in the minority who thinks Willie Green would make a worthwhile backup SG (as long as he isn’t jacking up too many 3s), I think Kareem Rush has the potential to be a really key addition to this team and take Green’s minutes if Green’s not up to par.

Rush is now their best three-point shooter. Hell, Rush even shot better from 3-point last year than Korver did and that’s Korver’s niche in the NBA. Rush isn’t the tallest guy in the world, but if Korver can play SG or SF, then Rush absolutely can too. Rush is no stud defender, but a replacement for the mid-season jettisoned Korver? Yeah, anyone in the NBA can play that much defense.

Whether they stick him in at backup SG, backup SF or bits of both, Rush is a definite upgrade over Rodney Carney, and he scores in a way that Willie Green can’t.

I think Philly is definitely a contender. Iguodala is a great defender and did a capable job as the team’s go to scorer last year. He won’t have to do that this year.

Brand (a Top Five PF in my opinion) and Dalembert are good shot blockers. This will be a solid defensive team.

Miller and Thaddeus Young round out a very good starting lineup.

Speights looks good. Jason Smith is better than I thought he’d be. Williams is the perfect change of pace backup PG and Willie Green is a nice scorer to have off the bench (which is what he should have been the whole time).

QD…Smith tore his ACL and is out for the year.

Paul, with his finger on the trade rumor pulse…

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3533552

Craig: Sure enough. Good analysis there too, but I’d say that Ridnour + Damon Jones and Adrian Griffin’s expiring contract are ample compensation for tossing Williams and the left-for-dead Desmond Mason. He has played horrible for three straight years (even going back to Milwaukee didn’t help) and was superfluous with the addition of Jefferson and Joe Alexander.

Sam Presti just opened up more cap space for next summer than he’ll know what to do with. Ridnour is getting 6.5 million in 2009-2010 and he could contribute in Milwaukee. Presti tosses that contract Hammond’s way and gets $10 million expiring from Danny Ferry in Joe Smith (who can still play) and from Hammond in Desmond Mason (who can maybe help Durant by providing swingman depth).

Apparently MP was on John Hammond’s curve, as Ramon Sessions just sewed up a lot more playing time. Good trade all around in my view. Danny Ferry rolling the dice on J.J. Hickson over veteran Joe Smith in order to get Mo Williams. If I’m LeBron, I’m pretty happy. If I’m Delonte West, I’m checking out the exchange rates for the US dollar over in Europe.

QD: Jim is right, and it’s a good thing too. You really think Smith is even decent? Agree to disagree. Go Speights.

I like this deal best for the bucks, since there’s only one ball on the court. Hammond, reshaping the bucks in a hurry. Okla, well, who really cares. Cavs? Just seem desperate. How many moves can they make without getting better or worse?

Yipee! The Cavs just kept themselves irrelevant! Seriously, Danny Ferry is my favorite GM in the league. Mo Williams is like a point guard version of Zach Randolph. Puts up great stats, but there’s a reason his team is terrible. I can’t wait to watch Chauncey and Stuckey abuse him in the paint.

Shinons: Mo does have LeBron to play beside now. Look at what having LeBron did for Boobie Gibson. Look at what the Big 3 did for Rondo and Perkins. I think Mo Williams has to be an absolute moron not to tow the line here, but then again, I’m a Mo Williams fan. It’s LeBron’s team, and certainly Cleveland has upgraded talent-wise, maybe not chemistry-wise. I’m guessing Mo will get with the program and this will work out. I usually think Danny Ferry is an idiot, but this isn’t particularly bad. I think it’s a step or two above lateral. It’s regrettable that Mo Williams isn’t liable to give you 70+ games and is locked up for $8-9 million per through ‘11-’12 with a player option for the following season, but even when the player option season kicks in he’ll only be 30. If he’s healthy for the playoffs, that’s all LeBron cares about. It’s a long contract, but Mo is only 2 years older than LeBron.

Craig: With Boobie the best PG on the roster and Delonte West as a restricted FA, I’d be desperate too. Those guys don’t play more than 60 games.

Despite my general belief that if I agree with the above poster I’m probably wrong… I don’t understand why Mo Williams isn’t going to work for Cleveland.

He’s a WAY more consistent shooter than Larry Hughes ever was and he fills the same “second option” role that Hughes was acquired to perform way back when. (Note, I do not have stats to back that up because I am hells lazy. This is what I mean by “watch some basketball”. I do. Therefore I have seen enough of both Larry Hughes and Mo Williams to say emphatically that Mo Williams is a more consistent shooter. Maybe 82Games doesn’t agree with me, but I really don’t care, it’s OBVIOUS watching both of them perform that any SANE person is much more comfortable watching Mo shoot than Larry… no really, this works).

He’s also no WORSE a facilitator than Delonte West (see note above about watching basketball) AND he’s not threatening to move to Europe through his agent. He’s more marketable in Cleveland as well from a personality standpoint. Delonte is WAY WAY too “Baller” to really fly in the Midwest frankly.

So basically Cleveland gets a second option on offense AND at WORST treads water on the “pure point” issue.

Finally and I don’t want to fight but really this is silly:

“Mo Williams is like a point guard version of Zach Randolph. Puts up great stats, but there’s a reason his team is terrible.”

Maybe Mo is terrible. Maybe he has things in common with Zach Randolph… I don’t agree but I’m not willing to fight to the death over it… Otoh.. the reason the Bucks are terrible is pretty obvious when you watch Andrew Bogut high five himself after an AND1 shot as a way of shaming his team-mates into caring about something, anything. The Bucks franchise is a cancer, you can’t blame Mo for not turning them into a winner.

That having been said, I’ll agree that Williams attitude towards “Defense” has been somewhat questionable but really Cleveland’s coaching staff WON’T play guys who aren’t playing defense… so he’ll at least try.

Wow, that was REALLY way too long. My bad.

Williams represents a massive upgrade for Cleveland. There is no other way to describe it. He was a 48% shooter with only Michael Redd to distract defenses. He was even a better three point shooter than Redd. Now he has LeBron James.

Seattle gets two decent pieces, who also function as expiring contracts. Another smooth move for Presti.

Milwaukee? Well, they get the $50 million check David Stern paid them to make this trade go down, not that it does much for their fans. I mean, seriously, how is this happening? Is it safe to start the Vince Carter to Miami watch now?

This might make Cleveland “better”, but I think we match up a little better with them now. I like the way both Billups and Stuckey match up with Mo Williams.

“Our challenge from Day One has been to shape our roster in a way that our fans will see a team that is competitive, that plays hard every night and has a chance to win,” Hammond said. “We feel this trade continues to move us toward that goal for this season and beyond.”

Well, that pretty much answers the “Why the hell would Milwaukee do this deal” question doesn’t it? Apparently Mo Williams was so soft and so disinterested that he was worth taking on Luke Ridnour’s “career” just to get rid of.

Seriously I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad I’m not a Bucks fan. What a mess of a franchise. Good luck Mr Hammond, yagonaneedit.

Before work prediction:

USA 84 – Greece 74

The sad part is I’m pretty sure we’ll play our hardest from start to finish… whereas Greece will probably get bored and start conserving for the medal round about 3 mins into the 4th Q….

Still, we need this one. Go USA.

The problem with Williams isn’t on offense – he’s obviously a very talented offensive player. The only problem on that end is that he jacks up a TON of shots in the first five seconds of the shot clock, which I’m sure won’t sit well with God James. I’m not sure how he is as a spot up shooter because it seemed like whenever I watched the Bucks play that Williams was always looking to create his own shot.

The reason why this is a disaster for the Cavs is defensively. Now their two best perimeter players, Gibson and Williams, are short and scrawny. What does Chauncey do to short, scrawny point guards? He uses his size and strength to get in the blocks or get to the stripe. Considering Stuckey is even bigger and stronger than Chauncey, who can the Cavs stick on these guys? (especially if West doesn’t re-sign) Szczerbiak and Pavlovic are just as terrible defensively. Because of this, I think the addition of Williams actually makes them worse rather than better.

Being disagreed with doesn’t hurt my feelings – I realize that on paper Mo Williams looks pretty damn good. I could bust out those stupid stats to try arguing my point, like that he has the lowest Net PER by position on the team (his PER minus allowed PER), but that stuff doesn’t really mean anything. I’ll just go on the record that this trade will be a disaster for the Cavs, that we sweep them in the regular season, and that they don’t make it past the first round next year. I’m really excited about this trade.

“Seriously I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad I’m not a Bucks fan. What a mess of a franchise. Good luck Mr Hammond, yagonaneedit.”

For real.

Cavs are better? I’d say marginally. I’ll be surprised if his numbers hold once he doesn’t have the ball in his hands. Would you guys be as excited if the cavs had gotten starbury? Since I think they’re both about as effective with out the ball in their hands. As for the rondo/perkins comparison, both are role players. And why does mo learn to play defense for mike brown, but the bucks don’t for skiles? You guys forget that the bulls played us the hardest of any conference team while he was coach? Until the players revolt, the bucks players are going to like winning, so they’ll do what he asks, for now.

Well, now that the trade has gone down, I still don’t understand why Milwaukee did it. Even if they wanted Williams gone, they picked up a guy who might be softer and worse on defense, and he also happens to be the picture of mediocrity on offense (and he’s overpaid, to boot!). I suppose he’s insurance if Sessions’ late season play was a mirage, but that’s all I can really see.

Mason’s expiring contract probably could have been put to better use, too.

Paul M: I think Milwaukee had no leverage, so I like what Hammond did. Mason started 56 of the 59 games he appeared in last year (averaging 28:48 of burn) and didn’t even pull 10 ppg. He missed 22 games last year because of his left thumb. He is (shocked me) going to turn 31 before this season starts. He seems to me to be in free-fall and his expiring deal only pays him $5.3 million this year, so it doesn’t create lots of cap space.

To me, getting Ridnour as insurance, Damon Jones and Adrian Griffin’s expiring $6 million while flipping Mo Williams’ long-term deal, well that’s about $10 million more that John Hammond couldn’t offer Charlie Villnueva next summer before yesterday.

I know opinions are rather mixed on Villanueva, but I’d like to have money around for a guy who has gotten about 12 and 6 for all 3 years he’s been in the league, especially when the only other option at PF for next year currently under contract is Malik Allen. The Bucks will likely start next summer over the cap, so no FAs from other teams besides exceptions are allowed. I think you have to pay Mr. Villanueva. Without making this trade, if you pay Villanueva you go into luxury tax with the trade you don’t go into tax. I wouldn’t let Villanueva walk unless something solid comes back.

they definitely got rid of redundant pieces on their team, opening up time for emerging players. Sounds like something people around here have called for, so interesting to see if it works. Also seems like the local writers didn’t like mo with redd, either.

“Paul M: I think Milwaukee had no leverage, so I like what Hammond did. "

If you have no leverage, you shouldn’t make a trade.

Craig, I wasn’t saying he WOULDN’T play for Skiles… just that he’s going someplace where accountability on defense is prioritized. The fact is the ONLY Buck who played defense last year was Andrew Bogut. Nobody else even wanted to be on the team. That’s all I was saying. Williams would likely ALSO have to play defense for Skiles… except now he doesn’t, he got traded and thus will never have played for Skiles at all.

Seriously though, by about January of last year I considered the Bucks the worst franchise in the NBA. The aura of “Not giving a F*&K” was visible through the TV.

I don’t disagree with the bucks giving up last year. And defense hasn’t been a part of the game for them for years. I think Skiles changes both of those things for them this season, though. As a former pg, I bet his finger prints are all over the mo trade, too. Hollinger didn’t like the trade for them, saying they got pennies on the dollar for mo, but I think hammond and skiles are injecting some discipline into the team. Something to watch for will be weather Alexander can stay out of Skiles doghouse for mental lapses.