What a novel idea!

Decidedly better than the status quo, still suboptimal

OT: noticed we’re not included in the “Truehoop Network.” Uh oh! ::rolls eyes::

Now I can root for the Pistons again, because I’ve been rooting for them to lose.

I like Kwame starting.

That gives the Pistons a big man on the low post that the other guys will pass the ball to when he is open.

Here is hoping for a lot of big centers among the Pistons opponents.

Go Kwame.

This angle doesn’t get discussed as much, but this is also a tacit choice for more Will Bynum minutes at the expense of Aaron Afflalo’s. AA can’t run the point when Rip is on the court – so if Rip is out there with 4 bench players, it’s gotta be Bynum at the pg.

I’m not saying Bynum will now play more minutes than Afflalo. But I do think if you set Bynum and Afflalo’s “baseline” minutes at x and y minutes, respectively, this means Bynum will actually play “x + something” and Afflalo will play “y – something.”

I’m just glad small ball is done, even though it’s not my optimal starting line-up.

Good point Forty about AA, it’ll be interesting to see the rotation Curry uses. Maybe he’ll always have Stuckey or Tay in to run point when Rip is playing, which would allow AA to keep getting minutes.

Well both AA and Hamilton can play some SF, it really depends on match-ups. Against the Pierce’s and Lebrons its a bit more difficult, though Hamilton historically does OK against Lebron.

At worst at least they both play SF much better compared to how Prince plays PF.

I don’t think anyone who writes for FanHouse got included in the TrueHoop network. It is ESPN, after all. Tom Ziller’s Sactown Royalty (one of the very best) didn’t get chosen, either. I suspect it’s because of FanHouse.

Re: more Bynum minutes. Ugh. Do we really need a five guard rotation?

Re: TrueHoop Network — I’m excited, it’s another example of bloggers being embraced (and integrated, in fact) into mainstream media.

Henry has a great eye for talent, and nobody you’d suspect he’d be interested in was snubbed. Also, Matt Moore is both a FanHouse colleague as well as the brains behind Hardwood Paroxysm.

got give curry credit…its tough…hopefully hamilton embraces his role and acts up

I like the fact that there is no more small ball but I don’t agree with it for a few reasons.
Are we not “renting” AI?
And more-so…I believe that Ai is perfect for our 2cnd unit….let AI go off, take most the shots…
Rip, his game needs to be set up by that pg…getting the ball in the right spots, which Stuckey can do…

@wutsurbeef

No, don’t “got give curry credit”… it’s not tough. Any real coach would have laid down the law the day the trade happened. And we’ve all been predicting this for months. Don’t tell me some guy getting paid millions to coach a professional basketball team should be coming to obvious realizations months after a bunch of pinheads on a sports blog do.

It’s not tough. It’s his job. The coin he makes implies he has to make touch decisions, yet he’s done nothing but flip-flop on everything he’s said since the very beginning. Don’t make excuses for a guy who deserves none.

*tough decisions

Stuckeyallstar2010— please, change the record. Everyone knows this (except our coach). No more.

I disagree, Joel. It’s easy to make that call from where we’re sitting. It’s POSSIBLE that Curry played it the right way. Gave small ball a chance to prove itself. It failed. Now, the players have to accept thier roles or come off as selfish.

“pinheads”? I prefer dumbasses, and in my case, “dumbass honky”

Who will be announced last now in the home starting line-ups?

My vote would be for Rod-d-d-d-d-neeeeey STUCK-key!

I think that people looked at this trade the wrong way. People looked at it as a Billups for AI trade when it should have been viewed as moving Billups to allow Stuckey more time, AI being the way to do it plus cap space. Who knows what Curry was thinking. But if they tried small to make a point that it wouldn’t work so to justify Rip to the bench. . . then, that’s stupid.

YES WE DID! YES WE DID!

Well yes he did, for now, sorta.

Good day all around the US of A.

I think Larry Brown or Phil Jackson or Popovich or any good coach would have layed it down a long time ago. Small ball never would have exsisted. I tried to be on Currys side a while ago, but that was rediculous.

My quick blurb on the politics going down today:

If you change the captain of a sinking ship, it’s still a sinking ship.

@QD

I realize that we, not being “in” on the situation at a personal level, don’t really, actually, truly know the difficulty of the decisions made and the personalities involved in said decision. However, the fact remains that we ALL called this. Pro-AI, anti-AI— all of us at one point or another MONTHS ago called this. I just question the man’s readiness and qualifications for his position. When so many “proven” commodities as coaches were still out there, the fact that Joe D chose who he chose, and this chosen coach’s seeming ineptitude with his roster (even though it was DRASTICALLY changed his first week on the job), make me really question the decision and its motives.

All that being said, our defense has been SPECTACULAR as of late (a Curry promise fulfilled for once), and AI looked straight vintage last night— hopefully a sign of things to come.

I’m wondering if Curry will ever swap Rip and AI. You know, because he’s tried EVERYTHING else. I find it amusing that he is so reluctant to start Stuckey, Rip, Tey, Amir, and Sheed.

Hey, this team might float above .500 after all… yippeeee!!! Totally mediocre… AND making the playoffs?!? Who could ask for anything more?

Hooray!!!

Death to Small Ball!

The BCS is next…

Oops, forgot about Moore writing for FanHouse. It looks like a good group on the Network. I’m curious to see where it goes.

From McCosky’s blog;

“One last note — Tayshaun Prince missed his first practice since being drafted by the Pistons in 2002. He needed to take treatment on his strained groin. He said he will play against the Raptors Wednesday.”

We all know how he never misses a game, but the fact that he hasn’t missed a practice as well is really impressive.

“This angle doesn’t get discussed as much, but this is also a tacit choice for more Will Bynum minutes at the expense of Aaron Afflalo’s. AA can’t run the point when Rip is on the court – so if Rip is out there with 4 bench players, it’s gotta be Bynum at the pg.”

God, let’s hope you’re wrong about Afflalo’s minutes. AA, as always, needs significant minutes because we’re going to need him to compete with Cleveland and Boston.

Let’s enjoy this amazing day in Pistons Nacion, but if Afflalo doesn’t get worked back into the late game rotation, that’ll be the next issue we’ll be ahead of Curry…

As always, to make my argument in shorthand, back to the +/- numbers. Iverson overall: +1. Afflalo overall: +1. Iverson AND Afflalo: +4.

“One last note — Tayshaun Prince missed his first practice since being drafted by the Pistons in 2002. He needed to take treatment on his strained groin. He said he will play against the Raptors Wednesday”

We’re talkin’ about practice?

“He will decide his late-game substitution pattern on the fly.”

We´re screwed.

I would have preferred AI to come off the bench too, but more importantly, is this really the end of small ball? Rip is going to play 30 minutes as a bench player — presumably AI and Stuckey are going to get at least that many. That inevitably means some time with three guards even without Aflalo, who definitely should play some, and Bynum, who Curry seems to like to stick in at random moments.

Here is what I want. Barring unusual circumstances, in each game, the total minutes of ’Sheed, ’Dyess, Amir, Maxiell, and Kwame should add up to 96. And Tayshaun should not play PF.

But it’s still a roster problem.

I’m just glad that Curry didn’t decide to go with “large ball” where Sheed starts at PG with Herrmann at the 2, Tay at 3, Amir at the 4 and Kwame at 5….

they were running Sheed at the point in practice last season…

“more importantly, is this really the end of small ball? Rip is going to play 30 minutes as a bench player — presumably AI and Stuckey are going to get at least that many. That inevitably means some time with three guards even without Aflalo, who definitely should play some”

Who knows what Curry is thinking of doing, but if you assign Prince 38mpg, then you’ve got 106 minutes to divide up among perimeter players, (with Hamilton and Afflalo picking up Tay’s 10 bench minutes at the ‘3’.)

I’d break it down as follows:

Iverson 34mpg
Afflalo 20mpg
Stuckey 32mpg
Hamilton 24mpg.

That totals out to 110 minutes, which leaves us with only 4 minutes of smallball per game.

I’m sure Curry won’t play Afflalo that much to begin with, but let’s hope they head in that direction as we approach the all-star break…

1) Smallball lives if Rip plays SF on the second unit
2) Smallball lives if if AI continues to play 40 minutes

I’ll give Curry credit for changing if and when I see smart substitution patterns and reasonable minute levels for Tay and AI. Until then this is one more thing that’s been said in the press. Having heard at least a half dozen things from the Pistons coach this year that had no relation to the reality on the court, I’m reserving judgment.

Petey,

That’s nice of you to give 24mpg to Hamilton in your coaching rotation. That’s awfully generous…

are you sure you only want AI to play 34 minutes? There are 14 more minuts in the game. Perhaps we could back Hamilton’s minutes down to 10 per game and just let AI run this team into the ground.

No?

Too sarcastic?

“are you sure you only want AI to play 34 minutes? There are 14 more minuts in the game.”

I want the rotation that will have the best chance of winning the championship.

Lamar Odom has only been on the floor for 51% of LA’s minutes this year, y’know. And Lamar is the patron saint of Rip’s new role…

With Rip going to the bench it probably means that the Pistons plan to resign AI after this season.

My guess is that it will be for a lot less than $20 million a year.

I expect that both Wallace and Iverson will be back next season at probably about 60% of what they were making this year.

This would enough to for a nice free agent signing or just leaving the cap space because of the declining attendance and income.

Lamar and Rip play 2 totally seperate positions and roles on this team.

Where Rip has lead his team in the playoffs before Lamar has failed.

Where Lamar is average at small forward and below average at power forward, Richard Hamilton is an all star at shooting guard. 2 totally seperate talents who are totally opposite in value.

I’m sorry you feel Richard Hamilton is so far beneath the shoe of one, “Bubba Chuck”, that you cut his minutes back to 24mpg just because of what the Lakers do.

“I expect that both Wallace and Iverson will be back next season at probably about 60% of what they were making this year.”

Assuming Dumars (smartly) signs both to one year deals to preserve his flexibility in the summer of 2010, I’d guess your salary number is just about right. Both players should be happy with $10m – $12m one year deals.

And, as I always repeat, Dumars will likely give $7m – $8m to Dice for the trade salary mess.

That’ll give Dumars enough to throw the MLE at anyone he likes without worrying about the tax threshold. If he wants to sign a FA above that, he’ll need to trim the structure, but I don’t think that FA is out there in the summer of 2009…

Mike,

You really think we’ll sign AI for about 12 million a year? I don’t think he gets more then the MLE from anyone and I highly doubt he’s here next year.

“I’m sorry you feel Richard Hamilton is so far beneath the shoe…”

I really do dig the Masked Avenger.

On this day of transition in Rip-land, I offer Petey’s favorite memory of Rip:

After frustrating Ron Artest all series long, Rip baited Artest into committing a flagrant foul on him down the stretch of the deciding game of the 2004 ECF.

It was the emblematic moment of a series the Pistons weren’t supposed to win. Viva the Masked Avenger.

On this day of transition in Rip-land, I offer Petey’s favorite memory of the Masked Avenger:

After frustrating Ron Artest all series long, Rip finally baited Artest into committing a flagrant foul on him down the stretch of the deciding game of the 2004 ECF.

It was the emblematic moment of a series the Pistons weren’t supposed to win. Viva the Masked Avenger.

Just my opinion but this is how I see some of the minutes

SF – Prince 36, Rip 12
SG – AI 24, Rip 24
PG – Stuckey 36, AI 12

So that makes

Prince, Rip, AI and Stuckey 36 each less a few here and there for AA and Bynum

C/PF – Sheed 32, McDyess 28 = 60
Remaining 36 minutes between Kwame, Johnson and Maxiell

AA, Bynum filling in as needed based upon fouls and situation

I think AI for maybe $10-12 million and Sheed for $8 – 10 million.

So it could be as low as 50% and as high as 60% or so.

Rip will be making over $10 million next year. Even though AI is several years older he still can get 20 – 30 points on some nights.

I wouldn’t sign either of them for more than 2 years with a 3rd year team option.

Holy shit I hope this works. If we keep sucking, I’m gonna run out of ways to rationalize it.

Also, I think Joel was right up-thread when he commented on our defense. It’s starting to look old school. If we can keep improving our Pick and Roll D and become decent on offense we could be pretty good this year. And now, reading that sentence I feel sad, because It’s been a long time since I had to talk like that about the pistons.

I like the idea of being willing to start Kwame in games against bigger opponents. My thing is, with the backcourt, is this the last change we’re gonna see made to the starting line-up?

All I have to say is:

Thank god Petey isn’t the GM.

Good, yes. Still not the right move. Iverson needs to lead the second unit – Rip isn’t a leader.

I hate that Iverson practice line. It’s almost as annoying as the Jim Mora playoffs thing. (I’m looking at you, Petey.)

My question is, was it worth the 5-6 bad losses the team took to make this point, or did Dumars and Curry just feel like they can’t beat Cleveland and just lock themselves into the 4 seed?

To my mind, AI and Rip are interchangeable, but Rip’s D is good, where AI’s is nonexistent and Rip the better FT shooter. So don’t be surprised if AI starts the game, and Rip finishes it.

The other problem this team has is when Will Bynum is your 5th guard, you’re deep at that position. In theory, Stuck, Rip, AI could go 32-32-32 and neither Affalo nor Bynum would get minutes, and their play, they obviously deserve it.

Feed junkies: I’m a League Pass’r and BTN digital cable has’r. I’m on the road tonight, can anybody hook me up with a Michigan-Penn State feed? Thanks ahead of time.

“My question is, was it worth the 5-6 bad losses the team took to make this point, or did Dumars and Curry just feel like they can’t beat Cleveland and just lock themselves into the 4 seed?”

Well, if we had five games back, we’d only be 3.5 behind Cleveland, and would have at least the four seed locked up.

I would imagine Iverson is going to push for one last contract. Failing that, I think he’ll sit and wait for a contender to call him up.

Kevin S. nailed it. All this lineup chaos has likely cost the Pistons a shot at winning the division at best or locking up the 4 seed at worst. Was that worth Curry protecting the feelings of Rip and AI?

“I’ll give Curry credit for changing if and when I see smart substitution patterns and reasonable minute levels for Tay and AI. Until then this is one more thing that’s been said in the press.”
-joejoejoe

I think this is the perfect way to approach the forthcoming line-up change. Curry has said “the right thing” to the press before. He promised a bunch of stuff before the season started that sounded great. Then once the season began, he managed NOT to deliver on a SINGLE thing he promised in the pre-season. Let’s not all start thinking he doesn’t suck until he definitively proves it. I don’t think he’s given us any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. There’s still plenty of ways Curry can screw this up.

I think Rodney stuckey should come off the bench. Iverson gets 21 Million and Rip got a contract extension beginning of this season. Paying so much for a bench player doesn’t make sense at all.
If Dumars was so sure that Stuckey was going to the starting PG then he should have got a 4 or 5 for Billups

@bigbangboom99:
Contracts don’t win championships. Stuckey has outperformed both Rip and AI this season, and he’s also the future of this team. Benching him would be nothing less than foolish.

For a guy who has been playing one full year, I love Stuck’s game. I feel like many here forget that. Dude is only going to get better. Remember, Dumars’ vision of a starting backcourt involves two combo guards. Stuck will never become a pure point guard, I don’t think (maybe Darrell Walker can help with that), but I love his game, very DWade like.

Since I asked the question originally, it makes me wonder a bit how much evidence Curry and Dumars needed to convince the players this wasn’t going to work. I mean, Tay at the 4? C’mon. His shot has really suffered last few weeks because of all the banging he’s had to take, man has to be exhausted at the end. You have more than serviceable front court players in Tay, Sheed, Max, Dice, Amir and Kwame.

I think the Pistons will end up with the 4th seed, which means having to go through both Boston and Cleveland without home court advantage. Bonne chance. That being said, how this trade resolves itself won’t be know until next year. AI is clearly a rental, and knows it. He took the “1” because we all know it’s going to be one and done with him.

If Dumars signs AI for $10-$12 million next year, I would consider that the second worst decision he’s ever made. Not including Afflalo, you’d have $22+ million of your salary in SGs. Even if it is for only one year… Why waste the money? I hope Dumars will look at the AI experiment, realize it didn’t work, and look for other ways to spend the money to actually, you know, improve the team.

As far as Rasheed goes… I think he retires. I think Steven A. Smith said he talked to Rasheed at last year’s All-Star game and Sheed said he wanted to spend time with his family and he was planning on retiring after this contact. Who knows if he meant it or if he’s changed his mind, but I can see it. If I was Dumars I’d get on the horn and see if you can bundle Sheed into a trade.

Well, well, well. This is better news is it not? I guess dreams can come true. Now if only MCIAFI would just morph into a decent coach then I would be content.

I need to go camping more often :)

bigbangboom99 is right. The starting lineup should be AI, Sheed, Rip, Tay, and Kwame since they have the five highest salaries on the team. Amir, Herrmann, and Max should get the most minutes off the bench.

Not sure what to do about backup guards- Stuck and AA are only the ninth and tenth highest-paid players on the team. Clearly, their salaries don’t warrant many minutes. Oh well- looks like AI and Rip just have to play 40-some minutes per game.

Oh, and Dice should be out of the rotation. $600k? Really? No minutes for him.

“Why waste the money? … look for other ways to spend the money to actually, you know, improve the team.”

Management’s mindset seems to be that the best way to improve the team via FA’s is to hoard cap space for 2010. Thus if anyone gets contracts after this year, they end up being one year deals, preserving the 2010 flexibility.

And to sign Chuck or Roscoe (or any player) to a one year deal, you have to overpay. That’s simple player contract economics. But overpaid one year deals are what makes sense given Dumars’ objectives.

Dumars is likely going to shovel the available money in ‘09-’10 to McDyess, Iverson, and Wallace. And he’ll still have enough left over to be able to sign a MLE FA in the summer of 2009 if he someone he wants is out there. Then he’ll still be able to bid as high as anyone else in the summer of 2010 for the big name FA’s.

This is chess, not checkers.

“Stuckey (is) the future of this team.”

Well, MP, if that’s really the case, you guys are in trouble once the veterans are gone. Stuck is a nice player who should enjoy a long and productive career in the association, but I will continue to maintain he has essentially no chance of ever being one of the top two guys on an elite team.

But I don’t think it is the case. The unknown guy(s) you bring in during the summer of 2010 is the real future of this team…

“The starting lineup should be … since they have the five highest salaries on the team”

My head began to explode while reading this before I realized it was parody…

Well, MP, if that’s really the case, you guys are in trouble once the veterans are gone. Stuck is a nice player who should enjoy a long and productive career in the association, but I will continue to maintain he has essentially no chance of ever being one of the top two guys on an elite team."

How is it then that Petey gets such a boner over a guy who’s been in the league over a decade, an All-star and league MVP, and yet also has never been one of the top two guys on an elite team?

From Yahoo Sports this morning. Look who is missing from the roster report. Could a trade be in the works despite what Curry said yesterday?

Roster Report

Rotation: Starters—Point guard Rodney Stuckey, Shooting guard Allen Iverson, Small forward Richard Hamilton, Power forward Tayshaun Prince, Center Rasheed Wallace. Bench—Guard Arron Afflalo, Center Kwame Brown, Forward Jason Maxiell, Forward/center Antonio McDyess, Guard Will Bynum.

• F Amir Johnson was the odd man out in Memphis as he did not play, his first DNP since Dec. 23. Michael Curry was upset that Johnson missed some defensive assignments in the previous game against New Orleans.

Is that the real reason he got a CD-DNP?

I guess we will have to stay tuned for breaking trade news.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;ylt=ApkavqmYMzZZ0HWbUKduuKl80bYF?slug=teamreports-2009-nba-det&prov=sportsxchange&type=teamreport

Petey writes: Iverson 34mpg; Afflalo 20mpg; Stuckey 32mpg; Hamilton 24mpg. That totals out to 110 minutes, which leaves us with only 4 minutes of smallball per game.

First, Curry said Hamilton would play 30 minutes, which brings us up to a total of 116 minutes. Afflalo might not get 20, but you have no minutes for Bynum, who Curry likes to play. So give AA 15 minutes and Bynum 5, and we’re still at 116 minutes for guards.

More importantly, I think your math is off. In a normal lineup, two guards x 48 minutes = 96 minutes. So 110 minutes would leave us with 14 minutes of smallball (an entire quarter’s worth), not 4. And 116 minutes for guards would leave us with 20 minutes of small ball.

I’m not happy with Rip at the 3 with two other guards even if he did play some tough individual D in some situations at the 3 in the playoffs last year. It’s still a rebounding and offensive flow problem (especially if it pushes Tayshaun to the 4).

I could maybe live with Afflalo as a backup SF for Tayshaun for chunks of the game. But I still worry about other three-guard arrangements being used too much/too often, and that seems hard to avoid with this roster.

Mike: As I said before, if the minute numbers for the bigs (‘Dyess, ’Sheed, Amir, Maxy, Kwame) add up to 96 each game, I will be happy. I’m worried that they won’t.

nice catch Mike
Langlois and detroit piston’s website have Amir as a starter in their pregame report

“More importantly, I think your math is off. In a normal lineup, two guards x 48 minutes = 96 minutes. So 110 minutes would leave us with 14 minutes of smallball”

No. My math is OK. My syntax may have been confusing. I wrote:

if you assign Prince 38mpg, then you’ve got 106 minutes to divide up among perimeter players, (with Hamilton and Afflalo picking up Tay’s 10 bench minutes at the ‘3′.)

Or put another way: who backs up Tay at the ‘3’?

Assuming Herrmann isn’t part of the regular rotation, those 10 minutes when Tay is on the bench involve Rip or Spellcheck at the ‘3’. Those 10 minutes are NOT smallball, since we’ve still got two bigs in the game. And my definition of smallball in Pistons context is one big with Tay at the ‘4’.

So my rotation would leave 92 minutes to split up amongst the bigs, leaving only 4 minutes of smallball. The extra 10 minutes with Tay on the bench is what I added to the 96 guard minutes to get 106 total minutes for AI, Rip, Stuck, and AA.

“First, Curry said Hamilton would play 30 minutes…”

Oh, believe me, I know.

Rip will start off playing more minutes than in my preferred rotation, and Iverson will likely play more minutes too. Afflalo will likely play fewer minutes.

But I remain semi-confident that Curry/Dumars is a smart brain trust, so hopefully we’ll get more towards a sane rotation by the all-star break. We’re going to need Afflalo in the playoffs against Cleveland and/or Boston, so we’d better get him ready ahead of time.

This seems like a “lesser of two evils” decision to me. We kill the evil of small ball, only to discover the evil of Rip off the bench.

Many have outlined on this board why Rip is better suited to start and AI is better suited to come off the bench,(Stuckey and AI play the same game, Rip cannot create for himself, Rip’s vs AI’s contract, Rip is a better defender). So instead, let’s try and figure out WHY this decision was made.

1. Curry honestly thinks this is the best lineup. The starting lineup will probably be fine, but think of the reserves. Rip, Bynum (WT.F?), Maxiell, McDyess, and probably Afflalo at SF. Who keeps the defense honest? None of these other players are a sufficient threat to keep the opponent from focusing on Rip. Result: turnover after turnover. Rip doesn’t create well for himself OR others. Final result: Curry is proven wrong and has to change the lineup YET AGAIN.

2. This is purely a chemistry move. Curry believes that AI will become such a problem to team chemistry if they ask him to come off the bench that the team will implode. Result: this is probably the lineup for the rest of the year regardless of performance if chemistry is the biggest factor in the decision.

3. Curry is perposefully trying every conceivable lineup combination BEFORE he asks AI to go to the bench so that he can basically tell AI “We’ve tried it every other way, now we have to do it my way”. Result: A few more weeks of an inferior lineup before the REAL final lineup is reached.

4. Joe D is looking to trade RIP and may possibly be negotiating a contract extension with AI.

Personally, I think #1 is the most likely and # 3 is the least likely. We’ll see how this all pans out, but it will be better than small ball either way.

Big Z, #5, Ai and stuckey have the best chemistry in the back court and therefore are the starting guards?

Petey:

I see what you mean now. As I said, I’m not thrilled with Rip at the 3 on a regular basis for significant minutes, but I think that’s what I’ll see. Again, I can stomach AA as a backup 3 for some intervals, but I don’t see how we don’t wind up with three guards on the floor for significant chunks of time if AA gets any significant minutes, Bynum gets any minutes at all, and Rip/AI/Stuckey all get at least 30.

I want two bigs at all times — 96 minutes of Sheed/Dyess and KwaMirMax. And I don’t want Tayshaun at the 4. And that’s going to be hard to do with this roster.

@Petey:
Well, MP, if that’s really the case, you guys are in trouble once the veterans are gone. Stuck is a nice player who should enjoy a long and productive career in the association, but I will continue to maintain he has essentially no chance of ever being one of the top two guys on an elite team.

But I don’t think it is the case. The unknown guy(s) you bring in during the summer of 2010 is the real future of this team…

One top tier free agent does not a contender make. As this squad stands now, there is no player other than Stuckey that will be part of a tandem or trio on which the Pistons future is built. Aside from Rodney, the other notes in that power chord are unknown until 2010 and beyond. So I repeat, Stuckey is the future of this team— whereas AI and Rip are not.

“Well, MP, if that’s really the case, you guys are in trouble once the veterans are gone.”

Fortunately, once the veterans are gone, you’ll be a fan of some other team and will likewise be on some other blog telling the long-timers how they’ve got their opinions all wrong.

(oh, and big ups to joel for the dime)

MP, I think you can count on tay in any future piston plans.

Seriously, after Curry and Joe mismanage everything possible this year, what free agent is gonna want to come to Detroit. Our organization and personnel and our history of winning are what draw real competitors. If we don’t even have that what’s going to draw anybody Detroit? The weather? The great economy? The Pistons front office is doing a great job of murdering any chance of grabbing a decent fa.

My vote is that we regulate AI to Marbury duty and just flat out cut Petey. But that’s just me.

Leave it to Curry to do what needs to be done, but still screw it up. If we’re going to start AI and Stuck together, we need to have Dyess on the floor. By my count, the starting lineup now has three guys who can’t shoot (regardless of whether it’s Amir or Kwame). Brilliant. Also, Stuck works best with the ball in his hands, AI works best with the ball in his hands, and Rip works best away from the ball. Of course we should put AI and Stuck together! Of course!

I just can’t get Curry’s logic. Can we get him on a reality show? That is one I would watch. I want to see Curry going through daily routines and walk through his decision making.

Rotten, I don’t think the economy affects nba players too much, esp. the max contract variety.

“Do I-ba want-ba the Big Mac-ba or the Mc-baNuggets-ba? I knows! I-ba gonna buy both-ba! Then I-ma gon-ba throw-ba those n-n-n-naaasty Nuggets-ba away-ba and just eat-d-da Big-a Mac-ba! Then I-ma yell at-ma Big Mac-ba for not tastin’ so good-ba, and then buy some mo-ba Mc-mc-mc-mcNuggets-ba!”

[bangs on a tin can]

“My vote is that we regulate AI to Marbury duty and just flat out cut Petey. But that’s just me.”

Gee, Shinons, I go out of my way to single you out for agreement in the last thread, and this is the thanks I get?

Besides, I can’t be cut. I’m the only one who knows how to spell Herrmann and Afflalo without having to think twice. That’s a valuable skill for a commenter to have in late game situations…

@Craig:
“MP, I think you can count on tay in any future piston plans.”

No doubt. And hopefully Maxiell and Afflalo. I mentioned Stuckey alone in the context that he will be a key piece of our future efforts, whereas come 2010, a 30-year-old, 100 game per season Prince may not be a primary building piece. That’s not demeaning his value, just a reason for making Stuckey the sole name in my comment.

Petey,

If you can convince Bubba to rock this look for the rest of the season, I will never say another solitary syllable of shit at, near, or in the general direction of either you or your boyfriend.

Sincerely,

Joel

@Joel:
Fear the ’Fro11

(oh, and + a bagillion for the MC impression)

Joel,

I’m definitely pro-fro.

Love,
-Petey

Shinnons:

Three guys in the starting lineup who can’t shoot? I’ll grant, for the sake of this argument, whichever big (Amir or Kwame) plays along with Rasheed, but of the rest — ‘Sheed, Stuckey, AI, and Tayshaun, which two are you saying can’t shoot?

Neither Stuck nor AI are shooters. In fact, I don’t think AI even remembers how to shoot a normal jumper anymore. Stuck’s shot is much better than it was last year, but he is still not a shooter. To have either AI or Stuck spotting up while the other creates is a complete waste of their talent.

Got it. I, like you, think AI should come off the bench not Rip, but I have a somewhat higher opinion of Stuckey and AI’s offensive game than you do.

Management’s mindset seems to be that the best way to improve the team via FA’s is to hoard cap space for 2010. Thus if anyone gets contracts after this year, they end up being one year deals, preserving the 2010 flexibility.

Alright, you obviously didn’t read the entire post. I’ll even give AI apologists the benefit of the doubt and say that AI improves the team 1% over Rip… The point is that only an idiot would pay someone 20% of your cap space to improve the team 1%… EVEN IF ITS FOR ONE YEAR AND YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO SPEND.

Dumars is likely going to shovel the available money in ‘09-’10 to McDyess, Iverson, and Wallace. And he’ll still have enough left over to be able to sign a MLE FA in the summer of 2009 if he someone he wants is out there. Then he’ll still be able to bid as high as anyone else in the summer of 2010 for the big name FA’s.

Why pay ANY money? It’s not like signing any or all of them will push us over the hump. To throw, as you’re proposing, almost half your salary cap into a 34 year old and two 35 year olds makes absolutely ZERO sense.

This is chess, not checkers.

Typical.

@Shinons:
Stuck may not have shown that he is a natural “shooter” per se, but I’ll take a “scorer” over a “shooter” any day. Besides, in limited numbers and from select spots on the court, Stuckey has shown an impressive range this season.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2343/stuckeyhotspotsmsp1yw4.jpg

“The point is that only an idiot would pay someone 20% of your cap space to improve the team 1%”

You know I’m getting bored when I answer Brad seriously. But here goes:

If we assume Dumars wants full FA flexibility in 2010, then it doesn’t matter how much he gives in one year deals to Dice, Iverson, and Wallace.

He can’t spend the cap space on anything else in 2009, because it will be for a multi-year commitment that won’t leave him the cap space to spend in 2010.

So from a Pistons cap space POV, it makes no difference if he signs those three vets for one year at total of $30m or at a total of $3m. The $27m difference between those two figures is unusable.

Now, if you don’t like having those guys on your roster in the first place, Brad, that’s a totally different issue. But purely in terms of cap space, there is no reason for Dumars not to pay market value for one year deals for Iverson and Wallace, and to spend the extra bucks on the make-good to Dice for his loss on the trade.

“The bottom line is you want to win games. If this is the best way we can win a championship, then I am all for it. The thing is, we have two great scorers, me and A.I. We have to figure out how both of us can be our best.”>>

I would say that at this time Stuckey is just as good a scorer as either Rip or Iverson.

You could see how much fun Stuckey was having in those games where he was let loose, he can be a high volume and higher percentage scorer, he gets to the line at will when he attacks the basket, well not at will cause he still doesnt get his fair share of calls, but I think Curry has to use Stuckey as the player he is not the Chauncey style hes pushing on him.

this is getting ridiculous…

Why don’t we just “make good” and trade for Ben Wallace, Corliss Williamson, Mike James, Jerry Stackhouse, Grant Hill, Chucky Atkins and Ronald Dupree?

To give Antonio McDyess $8m next season, for 1 year as a make good is absolutely absurd UNLESS you plan on trading him again to match salaries and then hope to re-sign him after he gets bought out again.

Hm. That got twisted. I think very highly of both Stuck and AI’s offensive games. It’s about roles and I’m not sure anyone thinks the best use for Stuck is for him to spot up at the three point line waiting for a kick out from AI. The same is true if you switch AI and Stuck.

If we assume Dumars wants full FA flexibility in 2010, then it doesn’t matter how much he gives in one year deals to Dice, Iverson, and Wallace.

See, this is EXACTLY where we differ… IT DOES MATTER because it’s not monopoly money… its REAL. You think Davidson LIKES throwing money away?!?

Davidson/Dumars can

a) throw $25 million into their team next year and go from a C+ to a C+/B-

b) use the money to go after Boozer, Milsap, or any one else under the age of 30 and possibly go from a C+ team to a B+ team

or

c) Keep the money in their pockets

I see (A) as the worst choice of the 3.

What about a trade of rip to minny for miller? Foye moves to the 1, rip at the two, and then smith, gomes, and jefferson. We get a back up sf in miller who can hit the 3 and play some 2.

Or, pryzbilla and outlaw for rip city? we address 2 needs in a true center and back up 3/out side shooter, and they get an anchor in the back court to go with roy.

I like the Pryzbilla and Outlaw idea. I’ve always loved both their games. I’d start Pryzbilla right away and have Outlaw be the first wing off the bench. Plus, they both play good-to-above average D.

The Mike Miller scenario is also pretty solid. He’s definitely hurting out in Minny, and we absolutely positively need a 3pt ace with all these “drive and kick” guys we have.

Rip and Amir for Booze and Korver?

Rip for either camby or kamen?

Rip and Amir for Stoudemire?

AI for j. oneal?

Wallace for Wallace?

ha… Rob I just proposed that trade to my Cleveland buddy if they threw in their 2011 first round draft pick. Which, if LeBron leaves, would be the first draft after a LeBron-less season for Cleveland.

He said they’re more likely to trade Szerbiak.

So I took these excerpts out of an Aldridge article(http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/01/19/nba_story.aldridge20090119/index.html)

"There is no question — none — what the rest of the team would prefer, and that’s Hamilton starting. This is a proud, loyal bunch, and Hamilton has carried a lot of water since coming to Detroit in 2002. It’s not about A.I.; it’s about their group loyalty to Rip."

Both A.I. and Hamilton said the right things Monday, pledging to do whatever’s best for the team. But Iverson didn’t run from the quandary, either.

“It would be tough for me,” he said “I’ve never come off the bench in my life … and I’ve been sacrificing since I came to Detroit.”

Ya… AI’s sacrificed SOOOOOOO MUCH. What’s he been sacrificing again? 4 minutes/game? 8 shots/game? Poooor baby. Let’s get him a f’ing towel to cry into.

“So from a Pistons cap space POV, it makes no difference if he signs those three vets for one year at total of $30m or at a total of $3m. The $27m difference between those two figures is unusable.”

There is a big difference. Being under the salary cap allows you to make trades with out having to match salaries. Teams will be desperate to get under the luxury tax threshold and/or create cap space for the summer of 2010, so we’d be an ideal trade partner. Since the Clips were far enough under the salary cap to take on Camby’s contract, they were able to get him for a 2nd round pick.

If those quotes are legit I am fucking LIVID. Even the team doesn’t want AI in the starting lineup? This is some pointless, ego-drama bullshit.

No trades. Really. What move would really leave us better off than if we just stay on the road we’re on, clear out the cap space, go after Boozer this off-season, and abstain and go after the 2010 class if Boozer’s looking at too much money? Besides, there may not be so many guys who are looking like future stars, but this draft class has some guys who can contribute that will fall to us, especially at point guard – I’m looking at you Collison and Lawson. If we can resign Dyess and/or Sheed, I love the lineup of:
Stuck/Lawson or Collison/Bynum
Rip/AA
Tay/Fabio
Boozer/Sheed and/or Dyess
KwaMirMax

Eh, Curry would still find a way to screw it up though.

I’m surprised at how many of you are taking the ridiculous stance that this wasn’t a tough position for Curry to be in. You compare him to Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, and Greg Popovich as if Michael Curry is a coach with years of coaching experience dealing with superstars and managing a roster.

He doesn’t. He’s a rookie coach who was expecting to go this season with a lineup that was proven and tested and two games into the season, that goes right out the window.

His rock steady PG is replaced by AI, and one of the most effective backcourts is destroyed.

On top of that he loses McDyess, by far the best big off the bench for a month.

Finally, I guarantee you that Popovich’s decision to move Ginobli to the bench last season was not an easy one even for Pop…and Ginobli isn’t even an all-star. To try and decide between a future hall of famer and a 2 time all-star is quite different than the position Pop was in anyways.

This was not an easy decision, it was not an easy position for Curry to be in, and the fact that we’ve heard almost nothing from Joe D. on any of this only puts more pressure on Curry to explain his actions…something a rookie coach would have little experience in.

You guys have come to expect perfection from coaches in Detroit when no coach has ever brought us a perfect world. LB brought us a perfect season, but screwed it up the next year. Flip brought us regular season dominance at the cost of postseason glory, and Curry is a rookie coach who needs to learn to manage his roster.

If anything, I’d say this entire situation has forced Curry to grow as a coach much faster than any of us should expect.

Just read the article, and I’m pretty much done with AI. If that’s really how he feels:

"It would be tough for me," he said "I’ve never come off the bench in my life … and I’ve been sacrificing since I came to Detroit."

What a prick. What the hell has Rip been doing? He’s given blood, sweat, and tears to this organization for almost seven years, starting every one of those games. He’s done NOTHING but sacrifice the moment that overrated child got shipped over here— less shots, less PT, playing out of position. Fuck AI. I’d rather we just ’Starbury his ass to a seat in a suit behind the bench.

“There is no question — none — what the rest of the team would prefer, and that’s Hamilton starting.”

Which makes me think that Joe D. is the one insisting that AI start. For now. I actually hope this doesn’t work, so that the last thing that it is possible to try is bringing AI off the bench with the green light. He’ll be happier not having to defer to anyone, any damn way.

Joel,

AI is just being AI man… that’s Bubba Chuck for you… Supreme team player man…

That’s your “put the team first” player there, who’s used to taking 22 shots per night, your 1.5/1 ast:TO ratio star, your 42% career shooter man…

You’re talking about the best guy under 5’10 to ever play the game man. You don’t know what you’re talking about man, let Bubba Chuck be Bubba Chuck man… if he wants to shoot it, we got guys who should be rebouding right? let him shoot the rock baby!

As long as his arm bands and wrist bands continue to sell in the Detroit Pistons pro shop, why are you complaining???? His field goal percentage is down because of:
1. the trade
2. noone is giving him the ball in a good position to shoot
3. It’s cold in Detroit
4. He had a fight with his wife
5. Noone likes him
6. DBB regulars hate him
7. MCIAFI is AFI
8. Every other excuse you can think of, only exaggerated to make it worse.

/every AI fanboy who has come here for the last 36 games’d

@Joel:
I cosign.

“There is no question — none — what the rest of the team would prefer, and that’s Hamilton starting.”

You can see Tay inwardly cry on the rare occasions he swings the ball to Chuck. And I’m not joking.

How did we all live before the telenovela came to town?

@Petey:
“How did we all live before the telenovela came to town?”

It was quite simple: we won.

Shinons,

I’m with you on not making a trade (unless there is an incredible deal). I don’t want to give rip up when we could potentially get the same player on the FA market.

@Petey
“But I remain semi-confident that Curry/Dumars is a smart brain trust, so hopefully we’ll get more towards a sane rotation by the all-star break.”
So you’re saying that a rotation with Rip playing 30 minutes is insane. I think these sorts of arrogant proclamations that involve beloved Pistons players is what annoys everyone so much about you. You’re line-up might, in fact, be the superior strategy. I don’t think it is, but you never know. You present it as if your POV is obviously correct and anyone who doesn’t agree must be an idiot. That might be something you want to work on.

As for everyone getting their panties in a bunch over AI’s comments – He’s a douche, what’d you expect? Honestly, if he plays better, I don’t give a shit. Also, Rip’s comments a couple weeks ago were even worse so I don’t think there is any point in getting too upset about what he said. He’s just seeing it from his pov.

So you’re saying

"How did we all live before the telenovela came to town?"

It was quite simple: we won.

Yeah, I think I remember winning. It’s been a while now, but I think I remember that…

I think these sorts of arrogant proclamations that involve beloved Pistons players is what annoys everyone so much about you. You’re line-up might, in fact, be the superior strategy. I don’t think it is, but you never know. You present it as if your POV is obviously correct and anyone who doesn’t agree must be an idiot.

Yep, that’s it. When it’s one of the three Ps: Patronizing, pompous, or pretentious. You’re all right Petey when you ditch the three Ps.

“It was quite simple: we won.”

Not since 2004, MP, not since 2004…

We’ve won a hell of a lot more games than your team (read: AI) has…

“We’ve won a hell of a lot more games than your team (read: AI) has…”

“My team” is the Pistons, dude.

And it ain’t no thing, unless you win that ring. Do wop, do wop, do wop….

“And it ain’t no thing, unless you win that ring. Do wop, do wop, do wop…”

Obviously the ultimate goal is to win as many championships as possible. But from a fan’s perspective, I’ve had a lot of fun watching us get to the ECF 6 years in a row. The championship or bust mantra is kind of a fallacy. I’m always disappointed when we don’t win, but I don’t view the season as a failure or a waste.

The last win that I remember watching and feeling completely satisfied with was the Lakers game in LA…Even the 7-game winning streak wasn’t impressive or exciting to watch…

@Petey:
"My team" is the Pistons, dude."

And few, if any of us will give you an ounce of respect for that since you’re only here as long as AI is. As Shinons said, your team is AI.

“And few, if any of us will give you an ounce of respect for that since you’re only here as long as AI is.”

I deserve an ounce of respect for being able and willing to separate my aims from the Pistons’ long-term aims.

I’m pretty clear about that division in my comments, and that ought to earn me an ounce with more bounce.

Petey,

How did you end up as AI’s number one fan, adopting every team he plays for? I can understand liking his game. For instance, Nash is one of my favorite non-pistons and I’ve always rooted for the Suns when not playing the pistons. But I’ve never even considered going onto a suns forum or blog. The pistons are my team, because I grew up in Michigan. It will always be that way. I’m not being critical of your fanhood, just curious how you ended up this way. Are you from a state that doesn’t have an NBA team?

“How did you end up as AI’s number one fan”

I’m Philly born and bred, though I got the hell out the minute I was able to.

When Chuck got traded, I could’ve chosen Iverson or Billy King and Ed Snider. I made my choice, and I’m quite comfortable with it. After all, I already had to have League Pass to watch Iverson even before the trade…

This was my home during the Denver hejira. God, Denver is a lousy hoops town. Thanks be for the Pistons. I’ve always liked that Joey Dumars guy. (And we do all know that Iverson named one of his kids after Zeke, right?)

So when the Pistons and 76ers play…..you root for the Pistons?

“So when the Pistons and 76ers play…..you root for the Pistons?”

YES.

It’s not even a question for me.

Will I look forward to Young and Speights kicking Amir’s ass four years from now? Perhaps. But that’s four years from now, and I’ll always keep a soft spot in my heart for everyone currently on the Pistons’ roster. Similarly, I’ll always have a soft spot for J.R. Smith.

And similarly, you’ll always have a soft spot for Chauncey…

“And similarly, you’ll always have a soft spot for Chauncey…

But I would never root for the Nuggets to beat the Pistons.

“But I would never root for the Nuggets to beat the Pistons.”

Neither would I colin.

Except for last year when Sheed’s freak ‘3’ broke my heart…