So, yeah, Allen Iverson is an All-Star

While his numbers aren’t on par with his previous years or even others within the conference at his position that’s not what the All Star game is all about. It’s about entertainment, flash and star power which the guy can provide. I have no problem with this at all.

“I know Pistons fans should be happy about Allen Iverson’s selection, but…”

That’s Matt Watson in a nutshell, ain’t it?

The All Star game is about David Stern going to bed happy… Big names draw better TV ratings as opposed to success by lesser known talent… What a coup for Chris Paul to overcome Tracy McGrady though… I love justice…

What we can expect Matt Watson to write if June is a happy month:

“I know Pistons fans should be happy about winning the championship, but giving the Finals MVP to Iverson spoils the whole title. At this point, I kinda wish the Lakers had won.”

There is no Matt Watson in “team”…

“It’s about entertainment, flash and star power which the guy can provide.”

Well if it isn’t about regular season performance, I would think Gilbert Arenas fills your quota as well as AI does.

“It’s just a shame the fans are blinded by fame instead of what happens on the court”

Given what you’ve written about the Pistons this year, Matt Watson, I don’t see any evidence you have the slightest clue about what happens on the court.

Whoa Petey, them are fightin’ words.

“What a coup for Chris Paul to overcome Tracy McGrady though… I love justice…”

No doubt.

But I still can’t get over the Bowen thing, even though I finally figured out how it happened…

@Petey:
Leave.

Signed,
DBB

“Whoa Petey, them are fightin’ words.”

I stand up against brainless and unprovoked attacks on the Pistons. I’m no pacifist.

did Allen Iverson run over a puppy or someone’s grandma or something.
It reminds me of dwyane wade last year. just plain hate. Also, I wanna see what Rodney Stuckey does the rest of this season, cuz everyone puts him up so high, and he hasn’t had a big game against a big team yet. It’s like Andrew Bynum dropping 42 on the clippers. I want to see Rodney Stuckey have a really good game, against an at least decent team. Every big point guard he faces embarrasses him.

Matt Watson in 1945:

I know Americans should be happy about winning World War II, but doing so with Dwight Eisenhower as the Supreme Commander of the armed forces instead of Omar Bradley just spoils the entire victory.

@MP:

Yeah, I guess. Not saying I like it I’m just saying that’s the way it is. The All Star game is for casual fans. The playoffs are for people who are actually watch basketball.

@Sean W:
I gotcha, right on.

EntityAbyss, maybe you missed the playoffs last year. Which he started in with only a half a year under his belt.

“did Allen Iverson run over a puppy or someone’s grandma or something. It reminds me of dwyane wade last year.”

Folks who casually follow hoops but don’t really understand what happens on the basketball court just DESPISE combo guards. A good part of it is just that simple.

Also, unlike you, EntityAbyss, I want Stuck to do well. It’s all about winning, and the Pistons aren’t going to be doing much winning this May and June unless EVERYONE does well.

This is not a competition for Best Piston Guard. This is a competition to win 16 playoff games.

Every profession has a ‘gold watch’, and the All-Star game is the NBA’s. Stuckey will be there in 10 years when he, too, has lost a step.

Hey Petey, but remember for the past two or three years how all of us Pistons fans had to watch Tay get snubbed? Oh wait, nevermind.

Iverson doesn’t deserve to be on that team and it’s a slap in the face to every Pistons player who has excelled under the radar.

Who cares? I’d rather the players get some needed rest.

Folks who casually follow hoops but don’t really understand what happens on the basketball court just DESPISE combo guards. A good part of it is just that simple.

But real basketball connesuiers, who manage to change favorite teams three times in three years, who manage to alienate themselves and make themselves despised by being an arrogant pretentious douche, who high-handedly dismiss their new “favorite team for the year”’s previous titles, now those people know how to appreciate a combo guard!

Petey:

Are you trying to make people hate you? I think the advice I gave you about trying not to sound like an arrogant prick in more relevant now then ever.

The proprietor of this site, Matt W., is clearly a lifelong pistons fan who is quite familiar with the game of basketball. It’s fine if you disagree with him, but there is no need to insult him even once, let alone repeatedly in the same thread. Furthermore, what he said about AI’s selection is true. He doesn’t deserve it on the merits. The Pistons don’t deserve to be represented in the All-Star game. We have been decidedly mediocre.

So, if you want to make some convoluted argument for AI’s inclusion as an All-Star Starter, go ahead. Just try not to be such a douche about it.

Petey, you don’t have the perspective of being a Pistons fan for the last 6 years when we’ve had Rip and CB so you can’t understand where Matt W is coming from.

is more relevant now than ever

“did Allen Iverson run over a puppy or someone’s grandma or something.”

Another large part of it is that some Detroit folks are still mourning Chauncey’s departure and don’t want to blame Dumars, so Iverson becomes an attractive target for their grief.

And, of course, let’s not forget Iverson’s cultural persona plays into this as well. The same persona that has helped get him elected a fan all-star ten years running means that some folks seek to take pot shots at him whenever they can. Iverson makes both the fans and the haters happy.

You’d think Pistons’ fans would be happy to have a starter in the All-Star game. The reason his numbers are down is quite simple: he’s not taking over every possession(philly) or every other(denver). Instead he’s fitting in with the team, willingly allowing everyone to get theirs. He still has the ability to go off for 35-40 any given night if he’s asked to. Arenas? I think you have to play in a game or 2 throughout the season to be named an all-star, or atleast have the reputation of being a perennial pick, not that of a guy who plays like 30 games a season… lets not compare ai and arenas again ok.. I think tay will be named as a reserve, however. Unfornately, if a record at this point was a little higher he’d be a sure pick

I don’t think AI should be starting on the All-Star team, but I really don’t see a problem with him making the team. The Pistons are 5th in the East (1 game out of 4th), and AI is the team leader in points, assists, and steals (although had Stuckey been starting all season he would definitely be pretty close in all of those departments). From a purely numbers standpoint (on paper) he is the most deserving. I think most Pistons fans would agree that he is far from the best choice (and at 5th in the East we’re definitely deserving of at least 1 All-Star, especially considering we haven’t been that great of a “team”), but looking at things from a purely statistical standpoint I don’t have that big of a problem with him being on the team (although he definitely shouldn’t be starting).

@Petey:
You, and others of your ilk, seriously make it hard for me to root for AI. Please stop being an asshole. Thanks.

“Iverson doesn’t deserve to be on that team and it’s a slap in the face to every Pistons player”

I’m sure they all see it that way, Shinons.

In fact, I hear Kwame and Amir are going to refuse to rebound any Iverson misses on the offensive glass unless he does the honorable thing and turns down the all-star start.

But who should be starting?? RONDO?!! JAMEER, who’s been a great facilator, but even so, with lower assist, points, and steals totals than AI, AND WHO SUCKED IN A BIG GAME BIG TIME LAST AGAINST THE C’S?? devin harris?! is his team even .500? and vc will probably make it, should you have 2 all-stars from a shitty team. You can make the argument that what harris is doing now, is similar to AI his 1st and 2nd years of the league, turning around a bad team by taking over the scoring duties at the pg, only AI averaged a lot more, was a lot flashier, and his sidekick was an old derrick coleman. And AI was snubbed his first couple years, the man along with shaq, deserves to be an all-star as long as he is playing. He’s certainly earned that right over the years

@David Stern:
The argument you just made re:AI on the all star team, is fine with me. Now if you could just convince Petey to write in a similar fashion, without the random high school bitchiness, then I think everyone here would be much happier.

I’ve never been an ardent support of AI… but the grief he takes on this board is awful. Previous career aside, what on earth as this dude done to deserve the scorn he receives here? He may dominate the ball from a possesion or two, but our boy RIP can eat 6,7 seconds off the shot clock measuring-his-man and killing the offense just as our Chauncey would sometimes grow accustomed to. I love RIP, guy comes off a screen and ready to shoot like nobody in the game; and when he wants to, he can be a hound on the defensive end. But not to dive headfirst into Special K’s bag-o’tricks, but one must be cognizant of the fact that AI now drives to the bucket cognizant (see what I did there, cognizant within a cognizant, a Special K embedded within special K…I know you’re with me) of the fact that as he makes that jab step to the hole, he’s already looking for the ‘stone he is about to set up with a wide-open jumper or scoop’n’score.

We can’t be consumed by our petty all-star differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps it’s fate that today we play a game against a crazy German and a wife-beating point guard not-named Bob Cousy. You will once again be fighting for our freedom… Not from the central division, eastern conference, or even glorified FIBA rules… but from boredom and mediocrity. We are fighting for our right to tell the WNBA that we got next. Where the right to play the game whilst not being a whiny lil bitch and complaining after ever call exists. And should we win the day, it should not be known as the day we beat down the Sarah Palin Mavrericks, but as the day the DBB Nation declared in one voice: “We will not go quietly into the night!” We will not blow a 3-on-1 fastbreak without a fight! We’re going to put RIP on the bench to green-light it with Brian McKnight. Today we celebrate DBB posters who never played the game at any meaningful level-offering-critical-and-harsh-opinions-Day."

[crowd cheers]

“The proprietor of this site, Matt W … is quite familiar with the game of basketball.”

I’ve yet to see any evidence of that, Colin. However, he does run an excellent fan website.

Those are two different things. I’m a great cook, yet I can’t play piano.

But props to him on the website, and I mean that quite sincerely. (Though, of course, it’d be a better fan website if he were a fan of all 14 players on the roster, rather than just of 13. But I understand he needs a target for his Chauncey grief, even if it’s a misplaced target.)

“So, if you want to make some convoluted argument for AI’s inclusion as an All-Star Starter, go ahead.”

He got more votes than Vince Carter.

Convoluted enough for you? (If you like, you can blame it on the American fans voting for their favorite national player. Think of Iverson as the American Yao…)

It was supposed to be a thing of beauty, not a monstrosity.

“I’ve never been an ardent support of AI… but the grief he takes on this board is awful.”

The fish rots from the head.

@You, and others of your ilk, seriously make it hard for me to root for AI. Please stop being an asshole. Thanks.

Why? Because we defend the man before all the piston’s fans can get together in here and have a group therapy session together about why he shouldn’t be an all-star?? He’s going to be getting countless loads of hating from the across the country, because everyone simply loves to hate allen iverson. But it shouldn’t be from here. Right now he deserves the support from every Piston fan, because that’s what he is.. a Detroit Piston. He’s willingly accepted his role here, even though it wasn’t his choice to come here. He’s sacrificed his scoring, (you do realize he’s 3rd all-time behind only MJ and wilt in ppg avg), minutes, domination of the ball.. He’s worked on defense, and has been a great teammate through some hard transition times here in Detroit… This situation didn’t happen by choice, but that’s life, and you’re forced to move on and make the best of the situation. What’s it going to take for some pistons’ fans to get onboard as well?! I say forget all this all-star talk, it really means nothing. He can came here with 1 thing in mind… winning a championship! Now let’s get behind OUR TEAM and do this!!!

David Stern…if you don’t think Devin Harris doesn’t deserves to start you’re insane. It’s not his fault the rest of his teammates (besides VC who’s played pretty well this year) are sub par. If you switch Harris and AI we are a much better team and NJ is worse.

It’s not like Matt W. said Iverson was terrible. Based purely on his contributions on the court he does not deserve to be an all star, which is what some people think should be the only factor in deciding who plays in the all star game. Others think it’s more important to get the big stars that the fans would like to see. I’m not saying one view point is correct and one view point is wrong, it’s just an opinion for each individual.

The fish rots from the head.

So…does that make the DBB commentators the weak-ass flexible fish vertebrae? Do I have this analogy correct?

Petey, can I ask you a question? I know you’re an AI fan, and you’ll root hard for the team that he is on, and you want him to win a championship before he retires, and a bunch of other noble stuff…

But, let’s be real- Why do you bother to post here? Why do you feel so attached to AI that you feel the need to insult the guy (Matt W) who takes the time to run a blog that you yourself describe as excellent? Can’t you just post a dissenting opinion, and leave it at that? Is even that modicum of politeness too much to expect from you?

Petey,

I like how you neatly avoid all the criticisms of your pompous tone and only answer those charges for which you have a semi-defensible response. Point being, you’re still being a douche.

Also, your cook vs piano analogy is asanine. Not even close to being relevant. Nobody is nominating Matt Watson as the next head coach, but to pretend like he isn’t familiar with basketball is just ridiculous. You are the epitomy of arrogance.

“So…does that make the DBB commentators the weak-ass flexible fish vertebrae? Do I have this analogy correct?”

I believe Shinons is the scales, and I’m the tasty fillets…

@Jim

If you switch Harris and AI we are a much better team and NJ is worse.

How can you make this argument?? What’s your supporting factors or evidence. Dallas would have rather have a washed up Jason Kidd run their team. He didn’t do anything special over there, and now his numbers are doubled because he has no real scoring options on his team other than an aging vince carter, so yeah he’s got to get the basket to score and draw fouls, which is something AI can do all day long if he chooses to or must, which I still think he needs to be a little more aggressive in Detroit when the offense gets stagnant.

I believe Shinons is the scales, and I’m the tasty fillets… so…i guess that might make me the Gorton’s Fisherman?

“I’ve never been an ardent support of AI… but the grief he takes on this board is awful.”

- To a certain extent, I think you are right. Mostly, though, I think people get pushed to extremes. I don’t hate AI, but at the same time his defensive lapses and the coinciding poor performance of the team put me in a bad mood. So when I hear someone constantly singing his praises while simultaneously insulting the owner/operator of the site along with other life-long fans, I get a little testy. So, I’m not mad that he is starting. Good for him. Good for the Pistons. I’m mad that Matt Watson got pilloried for observing that it “it’s more than a little weird.” That’s a pretty benign observation; not to mention self evident.

However, there are some here that won’t give him credit no matter what. Right now, I’d say I’m starting to sour, but keeping an open mind and waiting to see what happens as we move forward with the new line-up.

“I like how you neatly avoid all the criticisms of your pompous tone and only answer those charges for which you have a semi-defensible response.”

Hey, that’s the joy of picking out which part of the comment you choose to reply to.

Also, if 20 people are all shouting at me at the same time, one must pick and choose. In a more relaxed setting, I’m generally willing to defend, modify, or retract anything I’ve said.

“But, let’s be real- Why do you bother to post here?”

Because it’s the Pistons website with the best commenters.

I’d say around 25% of the regular commenters here have interesting things to say, which is a high enough percentage to maintain an acceptable signal-to-noise ratio on a blog.

And I’m deep into the Pistons, so it’s nice to be able to chat with other folks who’ve watched the games.

It’s too bad Matt Watson doesn’t quite get the basketball end of things – the site would be even better if he did – but he runs a very nice fan website nonetheless.

That’s why.

“And, of course, let’s not forget Iverson’s cultural persona plays into this as well. "

So, Petey.. are you trying to say that deep down we (as Pistons’ fans) don’t like AI because of the tattoos, rap albums, braids, etc???

I think all of the right, normal thinking, Piston fans that visit this site (yeah, including me and my sarcastic posts that have your brain twisted) believe that we never thought we’d see the day that Allen Iverson or a player like Allen Iverson would be a Piston. For the last 7 years, we haven’t seen a player of Iverson’s type on the team.

That means partially from a talent standpoint, but mostly from a type of play standpoint. The guy has never played with talent around him, and say what you will with the excuses, he is a horrible shooter from the mid-range which is something we have not seen in 6 seasons since having Richard Hamilton run off screens to the tune of 17-20 points a night.

My anti-gay, hate filled, whatever you want to call it speech is just shtick.

Matt Watson, Rob G, me, Mike Payne, LawyerBoy, Shinons, Colin, wolf blitzer, etc all know more about team basketball than you or EntityAbyss will ever know. You know highlight reels, killer crossovers, stuperstar arm bands, shoe contracts, etc… Say what you want about “you guys have never had a star… you don’t know what you got with AI” blahblahblah… read our old posts, we prefer the old way of playing. Also… We don’t care about combo guards, no one has ever mentioned combo guards here until you complained about our affinity with complaining about them. Our General Manager was a combo guard, he turned out to be an ok NBA player…

AI isn’t a combo guard, he’s a 2. He’s a good ball handler but a terrible distributor. He’s better than Rip at setting his teammates up, but I’d rather see Rip dominate the ball because his shots can finish at the rim or in the mid-range to the tune of 45%+. Perhaps we are upset that our GM and Coach wanted to trade for AI, I’m not… I like Billups but I know that Stuckey has more upside at this point in his career than Billups does. Times are changing as our record indicates…

I’ll say it for Matt Watson and everyone else who expects me to say it, but you can kiss our collective asses. Start with LawyerBoy first, he doesn’t like to be left out.

Thanks for the answer, Petey. Seriously :)

But in light of your response, the second part of my question bears repeating:
“Why do you feel so attached to AI that you feel the need to insult the guy (Matt W) who takes the time to run a blog that you yourself describe as excellent? Can’t you just post a dissenting opinion, and leave it at that?”

Petey

Again, you avoided the real thrus to mine and Gabe’s criticism. We’re both getting at the tone with which you post. The arrogant, dismissive posture that you maintain.

That should have read: the real thrust of mine and Gabe’s criticism.

“How can you make this argument??”

The better question is, how can I not make this argument? Devin Harris is a much better player, at this stage in their careers, then AI. First of all, I don’t think you can find anybody besides Marc Cuban who thinks Dallas won that trade. AI can not get to the line at will and score all day EFFICIENTLY…I’m sick of the AI fanboys saying “if he wanted to he could”. No, he can’t do it anymore at his old level…he’s still a good offensive player, but he’s not the AI of 2001. Devin Harris is a more efficient and better offensive player right now.

Devin Harris is one of the best defensive pg’s in the league. Don’t even try and tell me AI is the same league as him defensively. In our game against Denver we had to double team Dahntay Jones because AI was guarding him. DAHNTAY JONES! We should be doubling off Dayntay Jones!

I hope someone didn’t say that Devin Harris wasn’t a good defensive point guard because he is one of the best…

don’t let me read one of the fanboi posts saying that AI is better than Harris because they play defense on the same level..

Harris’ specialty is defense, he has developed his offensive game since being in the league. Not the other way around…

@Petey:
“It’s too bad Matt Watson doesn’t quite get the basketball end of things – the site would be even better if he did – but he runs a very nice fan website nonetheless.”

Its funny, I wonder why it is that Matt Watson is one of the most sought after sports writers in the blogosphere today? I wonder what he does with his time on press row (just feet away from the hardwood) during all those Pistons home games? I wonder if, when he talks to Pistons players and coaches one-on-one, if he talks to them about basketball?

Mind your manners, you’re talking about one of the most respect up-and-coming sports writers in the media today. He didn’t get there by accident, but by an understanding of the game and its players that would clearly trump any of our own.

LOL, nice dropping of the hammer Boney. It is amazing how AI’s loyalists think they always have the ultimate trump card, to shout down even the slightest criticism of AI, with the all encompassing “cultural persona” argument for why people might not love him. Is it impossible for someone to just not enjoy watching his style of play?

sigh this gets tiresome… Anyway, I’d just like to remind the resident AI fans: We are all rooting for the Pistons here. We’ve rooted for the Pistons for years, and we’ll root for them for years to come.

I dunno. This is less stupid than Jason Kidd over Chauncey. Devin Harris deserved the spot, but it takes a very knowledgable fan to reach for a guy on a .500 team who was only slightly above average up until this point.

I could get my dander up if this were going to cost Prince a spot. But smallball already accomplished that. As it stands, it probably means Ray Allen is out, and he hasn’t been that much better than AI.

That said, Matt’s points are correct, and I would note that they have not been disputed. If Matt is an idiot, then his argument should be easy to dismantle with statistical analysis. They are not.

Mike PayneTrain,

While a valiant defensive effort, MW can take care of himself. Your extraneous “oh yeah, you’re a stupid-head” post failed to contribute anything meaningful to the discussion.

A few quick thoughts before I have to leave for the Palace (as most of you know, I’m credentialed for home games for FanHouse — pity they couldn’t find a guy who knows what they hell those guys in shorts keep doing with that ball …)

1) I actually enjoy 90% of Petey’s comments, especially now that he’s quit using the word “deform” all the time. I don’t always agree with them, but he obviously thinks about what he says and takes criticism like a champ. Now that he’s lashed out at me …

2) … don’t feel like you have to defend me. I write for a living, so I’m used to people telling me I’m a moron for thinking the way I do every day, and they’re usually not half as clever as Petey when they do it. People come here to talk (and yes, argue) about basketball, so let’s stick to that.

(But of course, thanks to those who did speak up — that puffs up my ego more than someone’s criticism tears it down…)

“That said, Matt’s points are correct, and I would note that they have not been disputed”

I have most emphatically disputed Matt’s notion that Piston fans shouldn’t be happy about Chuck starting in Phoenix.

November 3rd, 2008 is almost three months into the rear-view mirror at this point. Matt ought to be completely through with the denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance cycle by now…

Very nice post, Matt W. Can we now start a new, less overdone argument on DBB?
My nomination is:

Not including AI in either question- Who is the most overrated player on the pistons, and who is the most underrated?

My picks would be: Underrated: Max/Amir/Kwame Overrated: Sheed

Petey, can you let go of your Matt W criticism for a moment, and please channel your knowledge of basketball into an explanation for why AA is the most underrated player on the squad?

Way to deform the discussion, Matt.

I don’t have a problem with AI making the All-Star game. It’s 75% popularity contest, 25% horse show… the 2 things AI excels at. You know, jersey sales and gimmicky low percentage shots that look all impressive and stuff. It actually is pretty impressive that his shooting percentage is as high as it is with the quantity of low-percentage shots he takes. So I commend AI for making the All-Star game and keeping boring (i.e. winning) basketball players on the outside looking in.

Also, cb’s reserve status was due to AI and Kidd playing in the East. He would’ve started this year. No reason to feel disrespected.

Wow. After reading all of these comments, I think Sean W. got it right in the first comment. Sure, Stuckey (among others) is a better player at the same position in the same conference, but the all star game is about entertainment for the fans. If they really still want AI to start then he should start. There are plenty of awards and honors at the end of the season for the players who are truly the best in the league.

Also, I’d like to join with everyone jumping to Matt’s defense. He obviously knows a thing or two about basketball and the Pistons. None of us should get carried away just because he writes something we disagree with.

Gabe… I’m with you on AA. Between him and Maxiel, and lockerroom egos, I do not understand how more people don’t see how every second those two spend on the floor is a positive. I’m continuously impressed with how AA’s shooting range has progressed while his defensive abilities (translated: sheer hustle and effort) remain rock financial rock solid. Maxiel, too, not exactly a secret; he eats babies, has bad intentions, and is a 6’7" brahma bull. Give him minutes, he’ll get you rebounds, extra possessions and surprisingly clutch shooting. I love me some Roscoe when he sets up in the paint with determination and the confidence that he’ll destroy whomever is guarding him; yet his growing desire to loaf along until he finds his 3ball or something of it’s ilk IRKS me like a PayneTrain upside the head.

@wolf blitzer:
When there are 5 or so posts that say something incorrect on or about DBB, someone is gonna speak up. If anything is going to fail to contribute here, its the 5 posts beforehand. And I don’t remember calling anyone a stupid head, stupid head. spits out tongue, fans fingers by ears, says something about your lady again

@petey:
Now that it has become clear that Curry is going to play Bynum next to Rip to maintain Rip’s strength as he moves to the 2nd unit, it will come at the expense of AA’s minutes. You’ve said that our hopes to be a contender involve getting AA time. If AI were to be moved to a 6th man role, it would mean that Bynum wouldn’t be necessary, and AA would get those minutes.

Would you rather have AI off the bench for 30 per and increased minutes for Afflalo — or the system as it is now with Rip off the bench and Arron taking the hit?

Most overrated on this site = Amir
Most underrated on this site = Kwame

Another crack at our current situation, via john hollinger and per…

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090123

Most overrated on this site – no one
Most underrated on this site – Walter Herrmann

@PayneTrain:
Dorothy mantooth was an effing saint.

Shits and giggles aside, the girlfriend, Ms. Mantooth and I, actually have tix to next Friday’s game against the Raging Rondos. Any DBB related activities or gatherings for the game that I should know about?

@Boney:
that hurts, man!

@wolf:
Someone should host a McDyess/Garnett dress-up dodgeball game. :)

@wb:

I think a few of us are heading over early to spend some time at The Post to ensure start in the case we suffer the same fate as of late, and need to drown our sorrows for the remainder of the evening.

*ensure a head start

And I’m deep into the Pistons, so it’s nice to be able to chat with other folks who’ve watched the games.

You think you’re deep into the Pistons? When you’ve got a couple hundred more Stones games to watch before you’ve caught up with my wife? Get real.

@shinons:
+100 :)

Overrated: Spellcheck. If what you can do on offense is limited to making open threes, you have to take them frequently, and with an outstanding success rate. Any efforts to increase his shots has resulted in drastically reduced efficiency. Love the defense, but he’s a black hole on offense, as his PER is 290th in the league.

Underrated: Maxiell. There really should have been a greater uproar over his benching. He’s been our most effective big this year.

I agree with both Craig and Boney that Kwame and Herrmann are a little better than their DBB love level and their roles on the team indicate.

@PS, Craig, Boney:
I cosign re: Kwame. After the initial shock wore off after the signing, I was bullish on it. I remain so, as he’s an improvement over Ratliff and it does not suck that his $4mil comes off the books in 2010 (unless he is scooped in his upcoming free agency).

I’d say that Bynum is the most underrated here, but that’s not really fair as a lot of DBBers have supported him since Summer League and still do today.

My pick for most underrated: Richard Hamilton.

Stay with me. I know we all love the guy (maybe not you, Boney), and we’d never sell him short. There are many of us who talk him up, but at the same time— he’s had one of the hardest seasons of his career:
- Lost his backcourt counterpart and friend
- Felt the sting of a new contract that wasn’t entirely made clear to him
- Was asked to play out of position (and excelled)
- Was asked to move to the bench

His numbers are down a bit, but in spite of the above issues (both emotional and mechanical), he has still done what was asked of him and largely excelled. If his public image in spite of the benching is any indicator, he’s doing what he needs for this team and setting ego aside.

Setting ego aside… that’s something I never thought he was capable of. While I knocked the guy for being a punk for much of this season, I have to look back at this and say— yeah, Rip is the most underrated. IMO, no one has sacrificed as he has this season, and he deserves more public respect here as a result.

This is the deal:

AI is good. He can dribble, get to the rack, and score a lot of points if he wants to. He ain’t as good as he used to be, however. He shoots more J’s than he used to and simply doesn’t pressure opposing defenses as much. AI can hit clutch shots, but often makes mistakes earlier in the game that later get ignored. He is a first-ballot hall of famer, all-time great, and currently the second-best guard on the Pistons.

That’s right, I do believe that Stuckey is arguably a better all-around player… right now. Say what you want about AI’s FG% or whatever, but the fact is the dude is older and isn’t as explosive. He is a volume scorer who relies on the free throw line and can’t shoot threes. He plays the passing lanes as well as anyone, but is a terrible on the ball defender.

In essence, AI is still very good, but not an All-Star starter type of player. Harris is better than AI at this point, he tore us up a few weeks ago. Stuckey has been playing great lately. Rondo will be great when he develops a J, and ARenas is the class of the East when healthy. I love AI, but he isn’t the best player on this team. He is in short spurts, but not overall. Is AI currently the most entertaining guard playing in the East? Hell yes. Will he be a solid All-Star starter to watch? Absolutely. I’m all for his entertainment value. But from a hoops standpoint, AI doesn’t defend well enough or score efficiently enough to be considered the best player on the team. Stuckey and Prince are both better, and I will take that to the bank.

“Overrated: Spellcheck. If what you can do on offense is limited to making open threes, you have to take them frequently, and with an outstanding success rate. Any efforts to increase his shots has resulted in drastically reduced efficiency. Love the defense, but he’s a black hole on offense, as his PER is 290th in the league.”

You should be looking at AA as a Bruce Bowen wannabe, and the value that players like that add simply doesn’t get picked up by PER.

If the Pistons are going to have any chance of taking down Cleveland or Detroit, AA is going to have to be on court for significant minutes. All we need him to do in the halfcourt offense is spot up beyond the arc to provide spacing for our mid-range operators (AI & Rip), and to knock down his wide-open threes that come to him at a decent rate. That’s all within his abilities.

I’m not sold on Herrmann. I think he’ll knock down his threes on the offensive end, but in the limited minutes he’s played this year, he’s constantly been doing the wrong thing on the defensive end. Maybe he’d be better on defense with consistent minutes, but as stated, I’m not sold yet.

I think Afflalo makes more sense as the designated three point shooter than Herrmann does.

Kwame has actually played much better than I’d expected, and I’d be giving him more minutes than he’s currently getting. I think his good +/- numbers are showing something real. But the fact that he’s had both of his hands amputated obviously is a negative for his game.

I like fan voting. Sports is entertainment as well as competition and if fans decide they want a more entertaining team in an All-Star exhibition then that’s OK with me. One of my NBA fan regrets is the strike that cancelled the All-Star game in Philly. AI was planning on entering the dunk contest in a vintage Dr. J jersey with his cornrows combed out into a ’fro. I would have enjoyed that. A lot.

I know we all jokingly discuss Herrmann’s abilities, but I think that in the right situation he could thrive as a 6th – 8th man off the bench.

He has the range, as we’ve seen. He is a serviceable defender, as we’ve seen. The only thing he lacks is the foot speed to play the 3 and the size to play the 4… that’s why he’s limited…

but, the man did average 9 ppg in 19.2 minutes his rookie season in the NBA so he has shown flashes… he is in his prime now, and I think with more time on the court he could prove useful.

I actually think AA’s defense is a little overrated. He plays great at times (ask Devin Harris) but I’ve also seen him get torched a fair amount as well. I’d say he is a good defender with potential for being great. Right now, IMO, he’s a slightly better defender than Rip.

I don’t see him being the key to our success in the playoffs. He’s too small to guard Lebron or Pierce effectively. Maybe we could put him on Rondo or Mo/Delonte/Booby in spurts.

“You think you’re deep into the Pistons? When you’ve got a couple hundred more Stones games to watch before you’ve caught up with my wife?”

I’ll fully agree that your wife and I are deeper into the Pistons than you, Shinons…

Boney,

I actually feel bad for him. On our team, the last thing we need is another undersized guy playing the 4. Hopefully he can find a team in the future that can use him.

“I’ll fully agree that your wife and I are deeper into the Pistons than you, Shinons…

WEAK!

@Shinons:
Petey’s right, both he and your wife have physical attractions to Pistons players that you do not have.

@MP:

+1

Most underrated: FRED W. CAPEL

Most overrated: Matt Wasson at iLoveMountains.org. I’m on their mailing list and ever time I get an email I think I won tickets or something from DBB. Clean water and smarter environmental policies are good but not as good as a night with Automotion and DBBers.

@Sean W

The last stones game that I attended was the playoff game last year when Boston jumped on top of us in what seemed like a Celtics, 57-4 advantage after the first quarter.

WAIT! I WANT TO BE UNDERRATED!

“I actually think AA’s defense is a little overrated. He plays great at times (ask Devin Harris) but I’ve also seen him get torched a fair amount as well. I’d say he is a good defender with potential for being great. Right now, IMO, he’s a slightly better defender than Rip.”

Agree with all of this.

He’s especially had trouble with some quick guards, (although he’s done well on some different quick guards). He’s generally been very good with taller guards and small forwards. And I think his defense will improve with more tick and more reps.

“I don’t see him being the key to our success in the playoffs. He’s too small to guard Lebron or Pierce effectively.”

The trick is that he only will be guarding those guys for 10 – 20 mpg. AA will be fresh, and will be able to make those players work hard for their points, which is key in a series.

He was brilliant on LeBron in the win against Cleveland. He was brilliant on Kobe in the win at LA. I think he can hassle Pierce well too.

He’s not a stopper, but he can be a fresh set of legs to successfully chase and hassle those guys. Making Bron and Pierce expend extra energy is his job, and is key to our chances of taking down their teams.

“Petey’s right, both he and your wife have physical attractions to Pistons players that you do not have.”

Y’know, I tried to be nice and not take the opening Shinons gave me to make a crack about certain types of activity his wife and I could engage in. Are you forcing me to go there, Mike Payne?

Petey, what team’s jersey were you wearing when Tay blocked Reggie Miller’s shot? Who’s jersey were you wearing during the Hill/Stackhouse years? My wife was wearing the same jersey the whole time. You have no clue what it means to be “deep into a team.”

Do you just wander into nuclear physics blogs and say “You all just don’t appreciate the importance the role fission plays into this process! God you’re all so stupid!” and move on?

Petey’s right, both he and your wife have physical attractions to Pistons players that you do not have.

You know, I have always thought my wife started liking the Pistons when she was little because she kinda had a crush on John Salley…

I have to disagree. The Allstar game is suppose to cater to the fans. The same fans who buy tickets with their hard earned money to see their favorite players play. The same fans who buy jerseys, and other NBA apparrel. And the same fans who are partially responsible for the existence of the NBA. So all the sports analysts can shut the f up. We fans deserve our nite.

id just like to bitch a little bit too. thanks

bitch bitch bitch, bitch bitch

MW – just wanted to give a novice such as yourself a few pointers for tonight:

1. you’ll notice people get excited when players score from directly above the metal hoop or “rim” and subsequently hang from it. those are called “dunks.”

2. dallas has a really tall player who is also one of the best shooters in the league. this is an uncommon and useful combination, so he is considered their best player.

3. the two guys pacing the side of the playing surface are coaches. they select which players play how long, make strategic decisions, etc. the one wearing the ridiculous suit is ours.

let us know if we can be of any more help!

signed,
no one

Here’s a random hypothetical, which I found amusing to argue/think about inside my brain:

Who would win a full, 48 minute game between the pistons ultimate bigball line-up vs. their ultimate smallball line-up?

Kwame/Amir/Max/Dice/Sheed VS. Bynum/AI/Stuck/AA/Rip (possibly sub Acker for AA or Rip, for smaller smallball?) Who wouldn’t pay to watch that game?

@Forty:
+20 (just picked an arbitrary number)

“those are called "dunks."

It is also appropriate to turn to your neighbor after one of these dunks and say, totally straightfaced and monotoned, “i like slam dunk shots.” Stare at this neighbor until it is uncomfortable, then turn back to the game.

“Petey, what team’s jersey were you wearing when Tay blocked Reggie Miller’s shot?”

I don’t wear jerseys, but I was watching and rooting for the Pistons in that game. I always hated Reggie.

And I’ve always liked Tay, even when he was killing the Sixers.

“My wife was wearing the same jersey the whole time.”

I thought we already came to agreement on your wife and I being more deep into the Pistons than you.

(Dude. First rule of comment sections inhabited only by men is not to raise the subject of your wife or gf. I’m really being quite restrained here.)

Alternate and even tamer response:

“My wife was wearing the same jersey the whole time.”

She really ought to take it off to wash it occasionally…

and MW

To echo no one’s sentiments from a little earlier I’d like to let you know that:

1. a shot from behind the line and made get a team 3 points while a shot from within the line gets you 2 points.

Oh and for all the old school DBB fans,

Primoz Brezec’s accessories > AI’s accessories

“You should be looking at AA as a Bruce Bowen wannabe, and the value that players like that add simply doesn’t get picked up by PER.”

He’s not as good as Bowen on D, and he’s just as bad on offense.

“All we need him to do in the halfcourt offense is spot up beyond the arc to provide spacing for our mid-range operators (AI & Rip), and to knock down his wide-open threes that come to him at a decent rate. That’s all within his abilities.”

No. He needs to knock down open threes at an excellent rate. If you leave Bowen open, he’ll knock down the shot more than half the time. You have to guard him. Spellcheck’s shots are largely uncontested, and he’s still only shooting 36%. That’s not enough to keep double teams away from AI or Rip, much less space the floor.

+1 Primoz’ forearms sleeves

I just had to give his forearm sleeves a +1 myself… dude looked like he raided Carlos Guillen’s closet with them things…

Petey,

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but people here reference their ladies pretty frequently. I was pretty surprised to find out how many of the regulars are married and have managed to stay that way despite devoting ungodly amounts of time to DBB and the Pistons. Quite impressive actually. Also, I’ve never seen someone seize the opportunity to say something about someones wife. Until now.

“dallas has a really tall player who is also one of the best shooters in the league. this is an uncommon and useful combination, so he is considered their best player.”

Forty, I generally love your comments, but Erick Dampier is NOT considered the Mavs’ best player…

Wait Petey, you could have made some sort of sexual innuendo about Shinons’ wife? Man that would have been awesome. The more lewd, inappropriate, and disgusting the comment, the more Allen Iverson would be a deserving All-Star!

Remember how Fabio locked up Dirk last year? Here’s hoping he gets a couple minutes tonight.

And I thought the first rule of internet forum posting was you don’t talk about internet forum posting

Petey – I generally enjoy your comments too, but I do think you should apologize to Matt Watson for calling him names. I doubt you’d tell someone face-to-face whom you have no reason to dislike (as a person) that you think they are stupid. So why would you do it on-line?

Forty,

The lewd, inappropriate and disgusting comments are mine.

Please carry on.

Thank you,
Boney

Colin – hell, half our ladies are going to be on the coaching staff next year. To be clear, mine is slated for head coach. In your face DBB, in your face!

Boney – let it never be otherwise haha.

So I must say, I’m pretty excited for this stretch of games against good teams without smallball. I think Kevin S’s comment is exactly right: are the Pistons (sans-insane lineup) good? I’m inclined to think not, but I can be happily persuaded.

“No. He needs to knock down open threes at an excellent rate. If you leave Bowen open, he’ll knock down the shot more than half the time. You have to guard him. Spellcheck’s shots are largely uncontested, and he’s still only shooting 36%. That’s not enough to keep double teams away from AI or Rip, much less space the floor.”

I think there is useful info in the player pair +/- numbers showing the Pistons doing quite well with Afflalo on the court with Iverson and Hamilton.

And I think he can raise his 3pt percentage with more tick and reps.

But mainly this is about two things:

1) I’m coming at this from the perspective of an Iverson-ologist. Iverson historically prospers with players like Afflalo – defensive guards who can’t create their own shots, but can knock down the open shots Iverson’s penetration creates. And you can see the floor open up for Iverson this year in the minutes we’ve seen an AI/AA backcourt.

2) We’re going to need him in the playoffs, and so we’d better give him tick and hope he gets better than he is now. Three point shooting / floor spacing is one of the key areas we’re going to need, and I don’t think Hermmann can stay on the floor for the reasons Boney (!) outlined above.

Afflalo may not be Bowen or Posey (yet), but for us to succeed this spring, we’re going to need him to grow into that role with playing time. You go to war with the roster you have, not the roster you want.

Looks forward to seeing AI getting owned by Chris Paul

@Colin:
Totally, our GF’s (that’s girlfriends, not guard-forwards) and/or wives have been mentioned here quite a bit. Remember last week’s game thread for the OKC game where it seemed like all of our girlfriends were saying “wait, oklahoma city has a basketball team? are they even any good? oh, well why are they beating us?”

Holy shit….Petey just paraphrased Rumsfeld in an attempt to bolster his argument! What?!? That doesn’t make sense!

" I think Kevin S’s comment is exactly right: are the Pistons (sans-insane lineup) good? I’m inclined to think not, but I can be happily persuaded."

Same story it’s always been. Sheed, Dice, and Iverson are a year too old. Stuck, Spellcheck, and Amir are a year too young. We only have two and half bigs when we need three. We don’t know where to get the necessary 3pt attempts.

All that said, we have sky high potential if everything falls the right way. That may not be much, but there are only eight or nine teams in the league that have a genuine shot to go all the way, and we’re one of them.

“Holy shit….Petey just paraphrased Rumsfeld in an attempt to bolster his argument! What?!? That doesn’t make sense!”

Rumsfeld may have been a crazy, incompetent, blood-thirsty warmonger. But he gave great quotes.

There are known knowns. And there are known unknowns.

Sips coffee
Dont mind me, please continue. Fascinating…

Shinons, I’m late to this thread (actually had to do work), but my wife loves John Salley too (mainly because of The Best Damn Sports Show). Of course, my favorite Bad Boy was Bill Laimbeer. So I guess we’re both abnormal.