hopefully this means there will be more money for the pistons… anyone know how profitable the shock were?

that post came off as uncaring. I am proud of the shock, even though I am not that into the WNBA. I definitely wish they could stay here.

Just a link to what I already wrote, with an additional comment that acknowledges the small potatoes that the WNBA comparatively ranks against the NBA, the NFL, the NHL, and the MLB. Women’s college basketball seems to have more following and support, for that matter.

As a business deal, yes, it makes sense to cut ties and sell off a club in a league that has spent 10 seasons in a financial crib.

My beef isn’t so much the sale, though … the press quotes Karen gave, and the subsequent abrupt sale, and the leakage of news thereof …. all of that erodes my willingness to trust Karen’s still-fresh rule.

I’m over it.

So now, is the Palace street going to be renamed 3 Championship Drive, which it now is … or, Zero Championship Drive, in Karen’s case?

“Zero Championship Drive” – Clever.

This may be a dumb question, but are they going to continue to be called the Detroit Shock? Or the Tulsa Shock? or something totally different? Or are they going to be like the Angels and be called the Tulsa Shock of Detroit? lol

I don’t watch the WNBA often, but I did watch game 5 of the Finals this season. It was much more entertaining than I anticipated, although not compelling enough to get me to watch regularly …

Still, it’s said in a way — one more thing leaving Detroit … That city has been through so much.

I can’t imagine the city of Detroit really feels the pain of a team leaving Auburn Hills. The economic impact will likely be exactly zero.

I think this is bad news for the WNBA as a league.

The nation as a whole probably paid almost zero attention to the Detroit Shock. The only place where a professional women’s basketball team could garner any LESS national attention would probably be — wait for it — Tusla, Oklahoma.

Now that one owner has dumped its WNBA team, I expect others to follow suite and then the entire WNBA will be extinct within 2 years.

i cant really make myself care about this. i think i watched maybe one shock game in the entire existence of the franchise. i guess it kinda blows since they won titles and whatnot but this will have zero impact on my life.

Man this makes me think if she would ever sell the pistons?

If she sells the Pistons, more than likely it will be an in-state buyer. Remember, Dan Gilbert desperately tried to buy the Pistons from Mr. Davidson. Not to mention it’s in Mrs. Davidson’s best interests to sell in state, as she can then turn around and lease the Palace back to the new ownership, gaining a majority of the benefits of the Pistons without the operating costs.

jermaine oneal looks like ken griffey jr on when he was on the simpsons and was addicted to mr burns brain tonic.

A trenchant analysis from MFTL.

It’s also possible that she wants to get out of the Palace Entertainment business as well, making her more likely to sell both the franchise and the arena to one bidder. It’d be kind of odd to buy an arena with no team and a team with no arena, and rather than having to lease someone else’s arena or build your own, you may as well buy the whole thing. People who can afford the team are likely to afford the arena as well.

I think there’s a decent chance she sells the team at one point. I think there’s a 0% chance the Pistons move out of Detroit. Especially since there are several teams with worse ownership on the market for cheaper prices. I see the Bobcats, Grizzlies, and even the Hornets moving long before the Pistons even consider it.

Living in Seattle, I now feel like I can almost empathize with Sonics fans. For those of you who didn’t follow the travesty that was a 41 year old franchise being stolen right out from under the fans that supported the team for so long, I highly recommend watching the documentary “Sonicsgate.” You can actually watch the entire thing here: http://www.sonicsgate.org/

While getting rid of the Shock will help Karen focus on the financial implications of the Pistons, it is concerning that she’d shed non-liquid assets this quickly after Bill’s death. You’d think at the very least she’d wait through one full season although apparently the attendance averages dropped by almost 20% from the year prior so maybe it was a smart move.

With Laimbeer leaving, the team’s inability to make it back to the finals, and the generally stagnant growth of the WNBA as a whole, the Shock’s market value likely will not get any higher than it is now.

However, if you guys want to assume that Karen would only sell the Pistons in-state, I wouldn’t hold my breath. When it comes to selling a team to get out of the business, you’re going to sell to the best offer. Howard Schultz sold to an ownership group who claimed they would do everything they could to keep the team in Seattle. In hindsight, they didn’t even do that and yet they still were able to take a 41 year old franchise in the 13th largest NBA market and move it to Oklahoma City.

If Detroit’s economy continues to decline, then the disposable income that the fanbase has at their disposal shrinks as well. Considering there aren’t black out rules on NBA games like the NFL, there is nothing that will drive fans to the Palace…especially if the team declines any further than where they are now.

The fact that season ticket sales are in decline, and with it average attendance indicates that the Pistons market value (which Forbes.com valued at 4th in the NBA last season I believe) could continue to go down while ticket revenues do the same making selling in the short-term all the more plausible.

Now I don’t want to paint a picture of gloom and doom but the legacy of a team in a particular city apparently has no value to David Stern so the Pistons leaving Detroit for greener pastures, in my mind, is completely realistic.

lol…less disposable income at their disposal…wordy for the sake of being wordy apparently.

LOL at PS… is everything awesome automatically given the nickname of MF()?

Grizzlies don’t move until the City wants them to move…the lease that they have locks them in pretty tight as it’s tied to ticket sales and the city is allowed to buy up tickets to keep average sales above the threshhold. The financial implications of an out-of-town buyer in the first 20 years of the Grizzlies lease agreement at their arena is also such that if an ownership group moves the team out of Memphis then they have to pay residuals that at this point would increase the total investment into the Grizzlies by $50-60 million if memory serves correct.

I don’t think the Pistons will be the next team to move nor are they the most likely. However, Karen is lucky enough to have one of the best arenas in the NBA despite how relatively old it is in comparsion. At some point though, an owner/Stern is going to push for a new better arena…one mostly funded by the City of Detroit and the State of Michigan (Bennett asked for a $500 million arena of which he’d front up to $100 million…he never actually committed to an actual number, the rest of which would have to be covered by the taxpayers of Washington/King County).

When the time comes for a new arena (whenever that may be), do you think that the voters in Detroit/Michigan are going to vote in $300+ million for a new arena during a time period which could ultimately be an all-time low for state and city budget?

Curse you Oklahoma! You’re stealing everything!

Who knows what she’s gonna do. One thing I wish she would do is cut down on the side attractions ,the palace regularly host thru out the pistons year. Namely concerts , ice shows etc. I know these make the palace a ton of money, but I’m really getting tire of seeing the pistons lead the league in back to backs just so they can sqeeze one more damn event in the palace.Sorry rant session over.

I’m not worried about this at all. I think all of the hand wringing in this thread is mostly just pessimism for the sake of pessimism. I think the fact that the team and the arena are owned by the same person makes it likely the NBA will require the arena to be included in any sale of the Pistons (note: pure speculation on my part). The Palace is in fantastic shape and most importantly includes a lot of luxury boxes that serve as a money tree in good economic times. I don’t see a new arena including more luxury boxes than the Palace. While the city of Detroit might balk at a new arena, the Pistons haven’t played in the city of Detroit in quite a long time and there are plenty of communities out there (Novi, Birmingham) that would kick in some cash if a new arena was required (again: pure speculation).

The other really important thing the franchise has going for it is a prolonged period of success in the near past. The Pistons leaving Detroit would be a tremendous black eye for the league if it happened in the next couple of years. Not only because it is one of the more valuable and marquee franchises in the league, but because the NBA would be seen abandoning a market “in need”.

The state of Michigan is also considering pushing a 6% “entertainment tax” on tickets to all NCAA and professional sports (as well as movies, concerts, plays, etc.). The Pistons play 41 games a year at home plus a handful of playoff games in a given year. Even if attendance goes down, that’s a pretty sizable chunk of revenue the state would lose. I don’t see them taking a potential move lying down given how badly they’re hurting for revenues.

I don’t want to give the impression that I’m reading too deep into this, or , godforbid, that I actually give a shit about the WNBA, but it does say something that the moment Mrs. D takes the reins she goes and sells off the Shock. Owners really do make a big difference in the team (see: Davis, Al) and this shows that she didn’t agree with one of her husbands views. How many others are out there? Maybe this means the bottom line becomes more important than winning. Sure, chances are the change won’t be a big deal, but as someone who lived in Indianapolis while Jim Irsay threatened to move the Colts to LA and took the city for all it’s worth to get his new stadium I can say that shitty owners suck ass.

I’ve got Tom Wilson for “anonymous official” in the pool.

Do we get to keep the Trophies in the Palace or are they taking those to Tulsa? I also believe if the team played downtown detroit just like the Lions and the Tigers then this would not have happened. The people in the city of Detroit love basketball and would have supported this team so they would not have even been considering moving. They could of played in the Joe Louis or Cobo or something. This is a minor travesty. Will they switch the name of the street to three championship drive now.

I used to own an Audi A4. 1996. First year run. Beautiful car— black on black leather, V6. I loved it. But it was a money pit. Damn was it ever a money pit. Problem was I enjoyed the car so much that I put up with it constantly sucking money out of my bank account. Eventually the car literally started hemorrhaging money. Almost bankrupt me. Finally found a buyer well after the worst of it, but I still feel the effects. I would be in a better financial situation even today if I had just gotten rid of the money-pit car earlier when it was doing better and worth a little more $$$.

This is why I don’t really feel too bad about the shock. Oh, and the WNBA sucks.

I can watch middle-school basketball right here in Lincoln Park, and I might actually see a couple dunks.

Just a thought, but maybe shedding the Shock was a way to ensure that that the Pistons will be properly funded, and able to compete for free agents, be profitable, etc. Now they don’t have to support a WNBA team which, even as successful as they’ve been, is most likely losing considerable amounts of money each year they can devote that money elsewhere, or at the very least feel more secure that they’re not just shedding money on a failing venture.

“this shows that she didn’t agree with one of her husbands views”

Or, this could mean that selling the Shock was in the works even before Mr. D. passed, and she is just carrying it through? I don’t think they would announce something like this until all the details were pretty solid, and that may take a long time for such a big deal.

Anybody reading too much into the sale of the Shock needs to loosen their bow-tie a bit.

Although they both play basketball, comparing the Shock to the Pistons is apples to oranges. One is a minor diversion; a hobby. The other is Serious Business.

I suppose Karen could sell the team if she wanted, but wouldn’t it make more sense to simply hire smart people to run the team and reap the benefits?

Oh wait… between Joe D and Tom Wilson that plan may already be in place.

I expect Karen to be much more hands off that Mr. D was. I don’t know if that will be a good thing or a bad thing, but I think there is an approximately 0% chance she turns in to Howard Schultz.

I can feel your pain, James B, but remember that the situation with the Sonics was an exception to the way the NBA has done business; not the rule.

Stern was hell-bent on putting a franchise in OKC due to their support of the Hornets during the Katrina aftermath. The timing of the situation in Seattle just made them the perfect target.

Stern supporting a move of the Pistons out of Michigan would be like him supporting a move of the Hornets out of New Orleans; read: a PR nightmare.

Just because Stern was hell-bent on putting a team in OKC … does not mean that the Sonics move was as great of a PR disaster as potential moves out of Detroit and New Orleans could be. The big difference is, that Sonics move happened, and it’s a fucking stain of a mess on Stern’s legacy. You can’t wash out that much blood.

mean that the Sonics move wasn’t*

Don’t forget that Seattle officials (Mayor, legislators etc.) treated Stern like crap when he went there to do something about building a new arena. They clearly told him the Sonics didn’t bring any cultural value to the city (which is crazy if you consider the Sonics were the only pro team to have won a title in Seattle) and I seem to remember the Mayor, other than rarely attending games (even when the Sonics were a playoffs team), didn’t show much interest in keeping the team there, either. This was something that clearly got Stern upset and he kinda gave up on the Sonics that day. So, I doubt something similar would happen in Detroit, not to mention the fact the mayor is a former NBA/Pistons player (Bing), so I’m sure he would never allow the Pistons to leave.

Plus, the Palace looks like a new modern arena, has tons of luxury suites (most important thing in today’s NBA if you want to make money, though the NBA seems leaning toward a new and better business model starting with the next Collective Bargaining Agreement) so I don’t really see the Pistons having any problem in the next few years.

Also, I don’t follow hockey, but aren’t the Red Wings the ones who are trying to get a new arena (I even heard a rumor they were considering to move to the Palace)? And another rumor about the Pistons moving to downtown Detroit in case the Wings got to build this arena?

Either way, the Pistons don’t have an arena problem so I don’t see them moving.

PS: The one who’s running the Pistons is Tom Wilson. He’s way more involved than Karen right now, so I would consider Wilson the real owner at this point.

Actually, Seattle officials like Mayor Nickel were pushing hard for the team. A single City Council member made a comment that the Sonics offered no cultural nor economic value to the city of Seattle and he later retracted that statement and was interviewed in the Sonicsgate documentary about his comments.

It was state officials that were generally non-responsive to pleas from Howard Schultz when he was owner and Clay Bennett when the PBA took over ownership.

I think though that you are over-valuing the awareness of the Sonics move. Outside of hard core basketball fans and general Sonics fans, not a lot of people even recognize just how shady that entire process was.

If you think Stern gives two shits about Seattle or about gutting the NBA’s culture in a city that has raised numerous NBA talents currently in the league (Stuckey for instance), you’re fooling yourself.

And yes, the Palace does have some amazing suite options which is what the NBA is moving towards, but what is the point of having all those great suites if you don’t have the local economy and businesses to buy them? While Tom Wilson may be running the show, it’s Karen who’s raking in the dough. If ticket revenues drop considerably due to a poor economic situation in the greater Detroit area, there isn’t much you can do about it from Wilson’s perspective and if Stern thinks he could generate more revenue by supporting a move, then he sure as shit will do it.

Oh and considering the fact that Stern supported Bennett in his request for more than $400 million in state and city funding to build a new arena at the absolute worst location possible in the greater Seattle area (an area known for extremely poor traffic movement), and then scoffed and insulted city and state officials after the state said, “Hey guys, if you haven’t noticed, we have a 45 year old bridge that is sinking into Lake Washington that needs to be replaced…that’s a billion dollars right there in the next 4 years, oh and did you hear? King County School District is almost bankrupt, so unless you want us to close our schools and allow our roads to deteriorate, maybe you should consider funding more than a mere 20% of the cost to build the arena.”

I will admit though to being an extremist when it comes to Stern’s shady tendencies and always assume there to be some conspiracy against the Pistons that stems from Stern’s office. It doesn’t help that the Pistons have succeeded in an era where superstars are supposed to reign supreme (an era which Stern brought about). Detroit has been the antithesis to this for the past 8 years and is continuing to do so.

Here’s my final gloom and doom prediction – Pistons to Seattle by 2012. You heard it here first.

The only thing going against this in my eyes is that Sonics fans are so distraught and upset about how things went down that the idea of stealing another city’s team is something they would do anything they could to avoid.

Also, I think someone asked whether or not we’d keep the trophies. In the case of the Sonics, there is a “shared history” meaning that all of the retired numbers, division, conference, and NBA championships won were passed on to OKC. The trophies now reside in OKC. If Seattle gets another team, then they could continue to hang those championship banners, etc. in their new arena, but the trophies would still stay in OKC.

Pistons to Seattle in 2012? Ok,really, I think people are being way more negative about this thing. Just because the frickin’ Shock of the WNBA (a team nobody cared about outside few diehards) left doesn’t mean the Pistons are in trouble. Lots of WNBA teams either moved or folded in the past few years (see Portland, Utah, Orlando, Miami, Houston) but it doesn’t seem to me the NBA teams in those cities moved as well. The WNBA is NOT the NBA. Teams moving left and right in the W. has nothing to do with the NBA. The Houston Comets folded few months ago, but is anyone talking about the Rockets leaving, too? No. So what the heck do the Pistons have to do with the Shock moving? The Pistons, unlike the Shock, have a huge fan base so it won’t happen.

Plus, the only reason people are talking about the Shock leaving town is because of the fact the WNBA and the NBA are affiliated. The story ends there.

Seriously, it makes me laugh to see people talking about the Pistons moving just because the Shock (a team who lost $2 millions last season alone, according to Tom Wilson) left.

I hope Seattle will get an NBA team back, but it won’t be the Pistons.