Preface: I am certainly overreacting, emotively.

Have we played good defense in any of our games in which CV has played significant minutes?

I want to be wrong about him — I really do — but I fear that he is destined to be a poor defender, so bad that we can’t mask his deficiencies with any defensive scheme.

Yeah, he got 17/10, but on 5-12 shooting (1-5 from 3)? That’s less than 42% from your PF — not good.

And sheesh, we can’t seem to rid ourselves of the turnover bug. 21 assists to 15 TO’s as a team — yuck.

/pessimism

so whats the starting lineup or even a full rotation gonna look like for wednesday? Theyve got a couple injuries and 2 rookies who are suspended for at least the 1st gsme. Also, because of this are they gonna have to hold on to Chucky far at least the 1st month or so, cuz he seems to be the only tru pt guard and more of an insurance policy and they just seem really short handed..Like that “sweet” new Pistons comercial when Ben Gordon says..“Its just that Ive been here a little while and I STILL dont know whats goin on..”..Kinda ironic for the whole season.

I’m deeply saddened by brgulker’s decision to block me on twitter rather than just unfollow me.

I even gave him a follow friday shout out too… :(

I even gave him a follow friday shout out too…

Yeah, a “shout out….”

I’m actually kind of happy about the Kwame injuries (forgive me, fellow knights). An injured Kwame Brown and an aged Ben Wallace might force Jod’s hands to make a trade for a real 5, if there’s any such thing available.

I don’t know if this has been posted or talked about…but just, wow.

When he heard the criticisms from his former friend Magic Johnson in a soon-to-be-released book, Isiah Thomas said he’d had enough. And so he began to fight back.

“I’m really hurt, and I really feel taken advantage of for all these years,‘’ said Thomas, the Hall of Fame point guard and former NBA coach and executive, most recently with the Knicks. "I’m totally blindsided by this. Every time that I’ve seen Magic, he has been friendly with me. Whenever he came to a Knick game, he was standing in the tunnel [to the locker room] with me. He and [Knicks assistant coach] Herb [Williams] and I, we would go out to dinner in New York. I didn’t know he felt this way.’’

The criticisms are made by Johnson in When The Game Was Ours, which he co-wrote with Larry Bird and author Jackie MacMullan. The book, to be released on Nov. 4, tells the inside story of the most important rivalry in basketball history.

Much of their story involves Thomas, who as captain of the Detroit Pistons served as a primary threat to the championship ambitions of Bird’s Celtics and Magic’s Lakers. The book offers revelations that have stunned Thomas. Magic addresses years of rumors by finally accusing Thomas of questioning his sexuality after Johnson was diagnosed with HIV in 1991. Magic also admits that he joined with Michael Jordan and other players in blackballing Thomas from the 1992 Olympic Dream Team, saying, "Isiah killed his own chances when it came to the Olympics. Nobody on that team wanted to play with him. … Michael didn’t want to play with him. Scottie [Pippen] wanted no part of him. Bird wasn’t pushing for him. Karl Malone didn’t want him. Who was saying, ‘We need this guy?’ Nobody.’’

“I’m glad that he’s finally had the nerve and the courage to stand up and say it was him, as opposed to letting Michael Jordan take the blame for it all these years,‘’ Thomas responded during one of several interviews he gave to SI.com on Wednesday. "I wish he would have had the courage to say this stuff to me face to face, as opposed to writing it in some damn book to sell and he can make money off it.’’

Thomas, who is the first-year coach at Florida International in Miami, confirmed that MacMullan attempted to reach him for comment six months ago, but he declined through his publicist to speak with her.

Magic’s most shocking accusation, however, is that Thomas was responsible for spreading rumors that Johnson was gay or bisexual after Johnson tested positive for HIV, forcing his retirement at age 32. "Isiah kept questioning people about it,‘’ Magic says. "I couldn’t believe that. The one guy I thought I could count on had all these doubts. It was like he kicked me in the stomach.’’

Thomas vehemently denied that he had gossiped behind Magic’s back, pointing out that he knew better than to engage in such hurtful talk.

“What most people don’t know is, before Magic had HIV, my brother had HIV,‘’ Thomas said. "My brother died of HIV, AIDS, drug abuse. So I knew way more about the disease, because I was living with it in my house.’’

His brother, Gregory Thomas, died five years ago, Isiah said.

“Magic acted and responded off some really bad information that he got,‘’ Thomas went on. "Whatever friendship we had, I thought it was bulls—- that he believed that. Let me put it to you this way: If he and I were such close friends, if I was questioning his sexuality, then I was questioning mine too. That’s how idiotic it is.’’

The book’s main source for this allegation is Magic’s longtime agent, Lon Rosen, who says Thomas told him in 1991, "I keep hearing Magic is gay.’’

“C’mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,’’ Rosen replies.

“I know,‘’ Thomas answers, "but I don’t know what he’s doing when he’s out there in L.A.’’

On Wednesday, Thomas denied that conversation. "I don’t know Lon like that,‘’ he said, adding that he reached out to Johnson at the time. "I remember calling Magic and saying [of the allegations that he was rumor-mongering], ’You know that’s some bulls—-.’ ’’

Magic declined to be interviewed for this story. Rosen, speaking on behalf of his client, said he and Magic stand by everything attributed to them in the book.

Thomas insisted he felt too much sympathy for Magic to be spreading rumors about him.

“I felt awful for him; I felt awful for everybody,‘’ Thomas said. "But I knew enough at that time that he didn’t have to retire. The ‘blood’ thing we do in the NBA — where we stop the game because of blood on somebody’s shirt and all that ceremonious stuff — we’re not stopping HIV/AIDS that way. We still do it out of some insane fear that came about when Karl Malone and everybody was saying they weren’t playing if Magic was playing.’’

Instead, Thomas said he helped make it possible for Magic to return in 1992 to the All-Star Game.

“They weren’t going to let Magic play in the All-Star Game; all the players were coming out [against him],‘’ Thomas said. "You know how that all got turned around? I had a meeting with all of the players — because I was president of the players’ association — and I told them not only was he going to play, but we were going to shake his hand and give him a hug. And I was the first to shake his hand and hug him and give him a kiss, to let people know that’s not how the virus is spread.

“And you can go back and check at the players’ association. Call Charlie Grantham [the former union executive director and COO] and ask him how Magic got to play in the All-Star Game. Ask him who called the meeting.’’

When The Game Was Ours credits NBA commissioner David Stern with inviting Johnson to play in the All-Star Game, despite objections from some players and owners. The book does acknowledge, however, that Thomas was the first player to embrace Johnson on the court before the game.

“I don’t discriminate,” Thomas said. "I don’t believe any race or ethnic group or social group should be discriminated against, because I have been discrimated against, and I know it would be wrong for me to discriminate.

“I think Magic has been misled on a lot of things, and unfortunately this has been another one of them. I am hurt and disappointed that he has chosen to believe others as opposed to his closest friends. And I think you can go back and look in that era and see who his closest friends were, and who his closest friends are now. At that time, I don’t consider Lon Rosen to be one of his closest friends; he was one of his business advisers making money off him.’’

According to the book, Magic at one time considered Thomas to be his closest friend in the league. Magic says their relationship changed during the 1988 Finals when — in retaliation for the physical play of Isiah’s Pistons teammates — he clobbered Thomas as Detroit’s captain was driving through the lane.

“When we got to the [‘88] Finals, our relationship became very different,’’ Thomas acknowledged. "It was OK for us to be friends when we weren’t competing with the Lakers, but when we started competing with the Lakers, our friendship changed. I remember my son was born in ‘88 during the NBA Finals and Magic wouldn’t even come to the hospital.

“So who kicked who? I’m sick and tired of being punched and people spinning stuff. You remember in Game 5 when Magic gave me a forearm shiver while I was in the air? I got up and pushed him, and what everybody wrote was that Isiah pushed Magic [to start the incident].’’

After Thomas suffered a severe ankle sprain in Game 6 of that series — he set an NBA Finals record with 25 points in the third quarter despite the injury — the Lakers refused to let him use their training facilities, he said. "I tried calling Magic on the phone and he wouldn’t take my phone calls,’’ said Thomas, who got help from an unlikely source, the Los Angeles Raiders.

“Al [Davis, the Raiders’ owner] called Chuck [Daly, the Pistons’ coach] because they were close, and he said, ‘Screw the Lakers, you can come and use our facilities.’ I had to get treatment at the Raiders’ facility because Magic and the Lakers wouldn’t let me use their ultrasound, hot tubs and whirlpools. I tried calling him to see if he could talk to the trainer, and he wouldn’t pick up the phone.’’

Magic admits in the book that his relationship with Jordan was permanently chilled by allegations that he was involved in a plan to keep the ball away from Jordan and freeze him out as a rookie in the 1985 All-Star Game at Indianapolis. But Magic is adamant that he had nothing to do it, which effectively leaves Thomas stranded as the engineer of the alleged plot.

Thomas has long denied that he had anything to do with the anti-Jordan conspiracy while doubting that it ever happened.

“The whole thing is so absurd,‘’ Thomas said. "If Sports Illustrated would just review the game — get a tape and watch that game and tell me where I was supposed to be freezing out Michael Jordan.’’

If Jordan didn’t receive a lot of passes — he scored seven points while attempting nine shots in 22 minutes — then it was because the team had other priorities, according to Thomas.

“I know people think that Michael Jordan is the best player now, but at that time, he wasn’t the best player,‘’ Thomas said. "At that time, we were better than he was. It’s not like he got the rookie treatment. Somebody is going to tell me I’m not going to [pass to] Bird and Moses [Malone] and Dr. J [Julius Erving]? It was a big thing, me playing an All-Star Game in Indiana. I went to school there. Larry Bird went to school there; he was from there. I’m sorry David Falk [Jordan’s agent] didn’t like that.’’

Interestingly, Bird has nothing bad to say about Isiah in the book, even though at one time Thomas was accused of saying that Bird was overrated because he was white. Bird, who is now president of the Indiana Pacers, fired Thomas as coach in 2003.

“Let’s be real. I’m not going to say the things Magic said in private about Larry, but I do know the public stance he’s taken [in becoming Bird’s friend],” Thomas said. I know that’s not how he felt about Larry Bird. Magic hated Larry, and he tried to make other people hate Larry. Magic was no friend of Larry Bird’s during that time. And his Laker teammates will tell you that. And I’m sure they’ve got to be disgusted with the way he’s carried on with this whole me-and-Larry bull.’’

But that’s another twist, as reported in detail by When The Game Was Ours: that the sport’s most famous rivals — Magic and Bird, who once considered each other enemies — have grown to be friends, while the opposite has become of the relationship between Magic and Thomas, who famously greeted each other with a kiss on the cheek before each game of the ’88 Finals, even as their friendship was souring.

The book tells the story of how Thomas and Mark Aguirre consoled Magic in his Boston hotel room as he stared out the window watching fans celebrating in the street after the Celtics beat the Lakers in Game 7 of the 1984 NBA Finals. Three years later in the same city, Thomas threw away Game 5 of the Eastern Conference finals when Bird intercepted his inbounds pass and converted the steal to Dennis Johnson for the game-winning layup. When told that Magic now recalls engaging in an hours-long soul-searching conversation with him after that horrible loss, Thomas sounded skeptical. After a long pause, he said, "Sure. That could have been possible.

“The guy who reached out to me after that play was a Celtic and it was Bill Russell,‘’ added Thomas, who took the call from Russell the day after the game. "I was down dead on my knees after that play. He just called me up and said, ’Hey, we all make the mistakes, you’ve got to keep playing.’ And he said it the way only he could say it. You know who else reached out to me? M.L. Carr [a former Boston teammate of Bird’s]. For as hard as we played against the Celtics, I think we had a very personal relationship with them. They admired that we were trying to be like them. And we all said, to this day, they were the team that taught us, and everything the Pistons were, we took from their playbook.’’

Thomas also disagreed with Magic’s assertion that he helped persuade Madison Square Garden Sports president Steve Mills to hire Thomas to run the Knicks in 2003.

“It’s so hypocritical,‘’ said Thomas, who was replaced by current Knicks president Donnie Walsh in 2008. "There’s this public person and then there’s this b.s. person. There’s Earvin and then there’s Magic. OK, I understand you’ve got to sell a book. But if this is how you sell it, then who’s kicking who in the stomach? And it’s just like the line he perpetuated that he got me the Knicks’ job. Oh, yeah? Ask [Knicks owner] Jim Dolan. Call Barry Watkins [the Knicks’ senior VP]. That’s a lie.

“You’re talking about being two-faced? Magic says he put me up for the job, that he was showing up in hard times and telling me everything was OK. And I come to find out he’s been the one stabbing me in the back. … I’m really hurt and disappointed, particularly with the Olympic team, if he was doing that stuff.’’

Thomas said Magic has never confronted him about the HIV rumors or his true feelings about their relationship. As recently as August, Thomas attended a charity event in Beverly Hills, Calif., honoring Magic, where he said they greeted each other warmly.

“If he was feeling this way, why was he shaking my hand and kissing me and acting like he and I were such buddies?’’ Thomas said. "Why do you do that?

“People who know me and my family and what I stand for will laugh at Magic and his beliefs. I’m tired of getting punched and people using me because they think I’m not going to say anything. Those days are over. Game on.’’

I can never walk past a pessimism bandwagon without hopping on. what’s the floor for this team? 35 wins? should I be scouting likely top-10 picks in the college game?

HOW WILL LANGLOIS SPIN THIS TRAVESTY?

They all had their moments offensively, but the way the short-handed Timberwolves put up points at the other end probably solidified the case for starting Brown and Wallace, their two most stout defenders.

Isiah has done a lot of stupid stuff, but I actually felt bad for him while reading that article.

@Rob G

HOW WILL LANGLOIS SPIN THIS TRAVESTY?

Like this.

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons_091022.html

Re: Zeke & Magic

I think for a guy who is one of the top 5 guys to ever play the game (to me) and is one of the most opulent retired-NBA players ever, for Magic to put Isiah on blast like this over 25 years down the road is a little low-class. I say let it go- Pretty much the entire world is going to side with you anyways, Earvin.

Magic & the rest of the Dream Team unanimously blacklisted Isiah in ‘92. Zeke supposedly snubbed MJ in the all-star game. I don’t know… eye for an eye. Anybody repping Detroit is going to get hated, all through that era, and they still do.

I don’t really know what to make of the Isiah vs. the World drama. If I were him I’d probably say exactly what he did in that last quote of Diablo’s entry.

The Al Davis connection, however, I was unaware of until now. That must be the first positive thing I have ever read about him. That’s a cool factoid.

I have a quick question to anyone who lives out-of-state. Is NBA League Pass Broadband worth getting?

@brgulker:
Yeah, he got 17/10, but on 5-12 shooting (1-5 from 3)? That’s less than 42% from your PF — not good.

That’s precisely what Rasheed averaged in FG% last year. Since he was a 45% shooter last season, I don’t think one 42% game is a negative, especially when the team shot 59% collectively.

Fadel -
It depends on your connection. We have DSL and it seems to work OK, but I’d prefer a faster connection than that.
- Rob

Most of those guys during that era were assholes. if you look at them today there are very few that even remotely likeable. Even I hated Issiah for what he did to the Knicks and how he acted about the whole situation.
If Magics biggest gripe with Isaiah is how he felt he was mistreated douring the Hiv scare. then he is clearly delusional. to most it was common knowledge that he was going through that withhis bro. And Jordan… hall of fame speech says it all. but here is something that will have you laffing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3-ENzAvWaM

“Have we played good defense in any of our games in which CV has played significant minutes?

I want to be wrong about him — I really do — but I fear that he is destined to be a poor defender, so bad that we can’t mask his deficiencies with any defensive scheme."

Nope, but he’s only played 2 games and we didn’t play good defense in the two games before he played. It seems like it was a team wide defensive issue last night, so I wouldn’t focus solely on him. I mean, Corey Brewer put up 21 points on us and he’s terrible offensively.

Rob G – I have DSL (3.0 MBps), is that fast enough?

How is anyone blaming CV for this?

Pistons defense has been crap for 4 games- CV has been back for a game and a half.

Yeah, it is very tough to blame CV for poor defense in two games that weren’t even televised. However, tt is clear our frontcourt has defensive issues (minus Ben and Kwame). The reality is that even with those two healthy and playing, defense is going to be a continual adventure. If Ben and Kwame start together, there will be long periods of time with neither on the court since neither should handle many minutes.

Mike Payne is right. Joe needs to pursue trades for defensive minded bigs period(.)

Didn’t Issiah and Magic peck each othe on the cheek before each game they played? Something blew up inbetween tht and Magic’s HIV diagnosis.

But I do think it’s pretty bad to rip a guy 25 years later and not to have said it to him personally before. But I also think, and maybe Magic was before everyone else, that he knew Thomas would blow up somewhere and didn’t want to be connected with him.

You can’t tell me these guys didn’t go out whorin’ around after games.. . . we know at least one time Magic did. To get to that level you have to have a huge ego, and most guys deal with it. It’s after retirement when your ego doesn’t retire that gets these guys in trouble.

As for the game and rotation – it’s goingto take amonth to see exactly how everyone fits in. With CV out for several games and all the new faces getting to play and gettng some cohesion will take awhile. It’ll take until Christmas before we know exactly how all these pieces might fit together. And for a number of signed players nothing can be done until after 15-Dec anyways. A couple of months after that and we’re at the trade deadline.

This will be a work in process, but we will be better than last year.

Did we just lose to the wolves?
And part of the blame is falling on not having big ben and Mr cake?!
how low can you go?
Sorry to derail the optimism train but when you bring a bunch of offensive minded players to replace some of the best defenders in the league you’re not going to bring defense to the table.
We’ve heard all of this “D is the most important” and “whoever doesn’t play D doesn’t play” BS last season. I’m hardly suprised with this…

I think we need to give this team til the trade deadline at least before we make any trades, we won’t know what we have til then any way. And we don’t need JOD pulling the trigger on an early season trade like last yr. we all know well that worked .Give the team and Qster some time ,he’s miles ahead of Curry.

@Defor:
Why wait until the trade deadline? We already know where our roster imbalances are. If something good comes up for rip or tay 10 games in to the season, you take it. Waiting until the trade deadline for the sake of waiting doesn’t make much sense.

we don’t need JOD pulling the trigger on an early season trade like last yr. we all know well that worked

It would have been a bad trade at the trade deadline too. The timing wasnt’ the problem, it was the transaction.

Fadel – I think so. The cool thing about the broadband option: you can pay less to follow 7 teams (instead of 30).

any of y’all got a link? I checked justin and adhte – no love at either…