Pistons shoot down Bucks

will bynum good.

Aaaaaaand Amir fouled out. But he had a decent enough game.

   ,,,how is it that he never fouled out last year?
 anyhow, moving on.

Has it dawned on anyone one that last nights rotation may be a prelude of things to come? Very little use of Rip. Props to Joe for making the front page.

If Joe Dumars paid for my gas and ticket, I’d go. I’d even do a Lango’d job of writing about it. Otherwise, I’m fine not spending my sheckles, thanks.

I have a couple of nits to pick. First, it is confusing now when someone mentions “Ben did this great play” since there are two Bens. I suppose I can assume that any mention of Ben shooting a three pointer refers to Mr. Gordon and not Mr. Wallace, but you never know.

Also, Daye apparently didn’t get the memo that Tayshaun has cornered the market on being the pale, lanky guy with a close-crop haircut and thin scraggly beard. It is hard enough to tell him and Prince apart as it is without them using the same barber.

Agreed that the guards are great, but I’m still worried that the temptation will be to play three guard lineups too much. I can’t see playing Stuckey at the 3, and I didn’t like Rip at the 3 either. Yes, Tayshaun at the 4 was the bigger problem, but it’s not like Charlie V. is going to be the monstrous presence defensively there that Tay couldn’t be because of Tay’s size.

Also, I watched lots of games in the Bad Boys era, but I honestly don’t remember that much “three-guard” offense, with Zeke, Joe D., and Vinnie all on the court at the same time. Am I remembering incorrectly?

Having said all that, it’s been a fun couple of preseason games. I would just like them to reduce the TOs, and I hope Charlie V. can see some action soon so they can used to playing with a guy who will be a big part of the picture.

Oh yeah, and the scabs suck.

It bugs me that the refs suck. There’s no reason for it whatsoever! Basketball is basketball! Even though these players are bigger and stronger and faster than anyone else in the world, the rules are the rules. How do you not know it’s a dead ball after an air ball free throw? Why don’t they bring in some refs from Europe since North America is incapable of producing refs?

Obviously, our guards will and should be the talk of last night’s game.

But here’s what I’m more impressed with: the stellar play of our “low usage” big men.

Kwame Brown. Two fantastic games in a a row.

In 23 minutes of work, he scored ten points, grabbed 9 boards, had one steal, one block, and 3 fouls. And he shot 4-6, again well over 50%.

Max had a decent game going for 6 and 8 on 50% shooting, and Wilcox would have had a dynamite game had he hit any of his free throws (3-8).

Big Ben’s numbers were meh, but he did manage to block another shot; I’ll take it.

Obviously, we’re talking about two preseason games here — but if these four guys can keep performing like this? That’s scary good production from our big men.

To be perfectly honest, Charlie is going to take minutes away from one of those guys — all of whom are playing brilliantly right now. I’m not sure I’m excited about that at this particular moment …

Here are my thoughts about our guards:

- I think we need to step back for a second and remember that there are still only 48 minutes at each guard position.

- Last night was the exception, not the rule. Obviously, let’s be excited about a great game, but let’s not forget too quickly how dismal everyone but MFWB was last game. Let’s hope with time, we get consistent high quality play rather than a roller coaster.

- Obviously, our guards shot the lights out, but if you check out the box score, there’s something even more illuminating — they took care of the ball. If we can keep our turnovers down, our guards will succeed.

- BG had 5 TO’s last night, so he was the exception. 5 TO’s. That’s scary bad.

- Is MFWB going to demand close to MLE money next offseason? With all the teams that are going to have bank to spend, is that outside the realm of possibility? WWJD? (What Will Jod Do).

- I’m not ready to call our guards great. Not even close. Rodney Stuckey has not yet proven to be consistently good, let alone great. I hope he does do that, but he hasn’t yet. BG’s gotta get his turnovers down; great guards take care of the ball. MFWB is what he is, a fantastically entertaining and explosive guard — but he’s not great until he has a jumpshot.

I mean, I’m all for being a fan, but let’s not throw realism to the wind after one good game against the Bucks during preseason.

- Summers and JJ did squat, again. What’s up with that?

=====

Does anyone know where Washington clocked his minutes? I’m assuming it must have been at SF, given the minutes for our other guards (?). 9 points, 4 boards, and a steal on 100% shooting is about all you can ask of a kid … wow, great game.

Last thing: I agree with Matt, at least in theory. The problem with small ball last season was Tay at 4. I don’t like Rip at 3, but I don’t mind it as much with two big bodies at 4/5.

Okay, last thing for real:

Has it dawned on anyone one that last nights rotation may be a prelude of things to come? Very little use of Rip. Props to Joe for making the front page.

Interesting point.

We still need to get better in the front court…

For any one who’s seen us play so far, can you give me your thoughts on the type of offense we are running so far? Just from what I’ve seen and read it seems we’re running more pick and rolls with lots of movement away from the ball.

I loved the play where Bynum threw the back door bounce pass to Gordon for the dunk. Bynum was isolated on the wing, with Gordon in the corner, while I believe Rip was running around a double screen on the other side of the court. That set-up puts a ton of pressure on the defense…Bynum has the option to take his man to the hole, kick out if need be to Gordon for a corner 3, or hit Rip coming off the curl for a jumpshot.

I agree with pretty much everything bgulker said, with two minor caveats. First, while Gordon did have a depressing 5 TOs, this is the second straight (admittedly preseason) game when the Pistons had way too many TOs as a team.

Second, I would like to see the assist numbers higher. I didn’t see the game, but just from reading the boxscore, my critique of Stuckey would be that he only had one assist. Given that he has been sort of a “tweener” between the 1 and 2 but that he’s supposed to be our point guard, I would like to see him work on getting assists. I’m hoping/assuming that will be easier when Charlie V. gets back, but it’s something to watch, I think.

Correction…it was Stuckey coming off the double screen, not Rip.

Before we get too excited about how Bynum and Gordon scored so many points on so few FGAs, it should be pointed out these replacement officials are calling fouls like hell.

They called 68 fouls in last night’s game – 26 more than last season’s per game average.

Still, nice to see Bynum going 12 for 12 when he does get to the line.

Last thing: I agree with Matt, at least in theory. The problem with small ball last season was Tay at 4. I don’t like Rip at 3, but I don’t mind it as much with two big bodies at 4/5.

For sure. Even Stuckey at 3, I can handle that. He’s thick and has long arms, might be even more suited to handle it than Rip. But Q! (White Sox fans use that for Carlos Quentin and I like it), keep the perimeter guys on the perimeter and the big men as big men and we’ll all be good.

Still though, it would be preferable to see the youngsters get the backup SF minutes…

I like the idea of small ball in moderation, unlike last season where it was used exclusively for a long stretch of games. However, Tay cannot be playing the 4 during those stretches. We saw last year that it wore him down too much. There’s also a huge drop off in size at every position if he’s at the 4. I’m ok with having two bigs at the 4 & 5, especially with Charlie V at the 4 in those situations. That could cause opposing coaches nightmares on how to defend a lineup like MFWB, Gordon, Stuck/Rip, & Charlie V, with any big body at the 5.

Again, I’d only like to see this sort of lineup for stretches (it could be a good lineup to start the 3rd quarter with). Last season was the longest, most painful Pistons experience I’ve ever had, and I’m really excited about the new possibilities with this team.

Well I’m not too concerned about the officiating. with all of the foul calls being a league wide phenomenom, I am sure that it is probably a mandate from Stern for the Refs not to let the game get away from them. I mean Crawford, Bavetta and Salvatore were “trigger happy” in their own right. So I am sure that it is just a case of maintaining
standards.
Whats more concerning is the wrong players going to the line, attempting to take points away five minutes later, the wrong players involved in jump balls, stuff like that. those are the calls/mistakes that will cost games.
And how about our unruly rookies? I wonder what Joe thinks of that. two games, 2 punches have been thrown. the Bad Boys were about more than just throwing punches. But with that said.. With Washington being a “tweener” I wonder if that makes it that much easier to move Rip. after seeing his #s last night you have to wonder what the result will be if given more/consistent playing time. at this point. of our gaurds, Rip appears to be the best/most consistent passer. and like noted above, we have not been sharing the ball.

and its not inconcievable for MFWB to go to the line 6 times. Drawing contact is a strength of his.

Last season was the longest, most painful Pistons experience I’ve ever had,

Even more painful than the teal Unicorns?

The teal era was only painful for my eyes, last year hurt every part of my Piston-loving soul.

“Still, nice to see Bynum going 12 for 12 when he does get to the line.”

He’s been dynamite at the line in both games. What does this mean? It means he’s been putting in serious time with his jumper, which is really his only flaw as a guard. MFWB + shooting touch = unstoppable.

Like I’ve said before, we need to lock this guy up with a multi-year deal right fucking now. He’s going to command near-MLE level money on the open market, so we need to get him now while he’ll still be relatively cheap. You’ve got to think we’d get a hometown discount for giving him the original chance to play (which he’s absolutely RUN with). Something like $10mil/3yrs with the third year being a player option or some such. He’s the best bench player we’ve had in half a decade— if Joe lets him walk, I’ll be mighty pissed.

Something like $10mil/3yrs with the third year being a player option or some such.

I’d love to see him get more than 3 years. As flashy as MFWB is, he’s a hard worker and those guys stay in the league for a long time.

I haven’t seen any pre-season games yet except for the Lakers walk in the park yesterday vs the midgets from GS. NBA League Pass is still not available.

However, I did have once comment. I see my man Kwame Kwame has impressed Kuester.

Kuester High on Kwame Brown’s Season

Posted: 10/7/2009 6:02:00 AM
Source: Ted Kulfan of The Detroit News

The one player John Kuester has been particularly raving about this training camp is Kwame Brown. Yes, Kwame Brown. Kuester said it again today – that Brown will have an outstanding season. Maybe, just maybe, Kuester’s right. There does seem to be a confidence and maturity around Brown that many people haven’t seen before.

Click Here to see the full article.

www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20091007#STORY_21810

P.S. I did see the video of Daye’s block. It was sweet. Almost as nice as A. Randolph catching Kobe from behind last night and knocking the ball from Kobe’s hand as he tried to slam in on the run out.

Unrelated, but did anyone see Shannon Brown’s dunk from that LA-GS game last night? Nice to see a Michigan product doing fairly well in the league. Hopefully he can crack that rotation this year. I’d love to see him in the dunk contest. He had some amazing dunks at MSU, the guy can flat-out fly.

this is the second straight (admittedly preseason) game when the Pistons had way too many TOs as a team.

Largely due to Gordon … vicious circle?

It’s not like Bynum CAN’T shoot from the outside. He’s pretty decent from 18’ and in. He just needs to be Tony Parker good from the outside.

It’s the preseason. Turnovers happen.

@Joel

The Pistons can’t extend Will Bynum until the end of the season. But, he’ll be a restricted free agent so the Pistons can match any offer.

I’m not worried about the turnovers either, it’ll correct itself. Last year with Allen Iverson, Stuckey in his first year as PG, and an idiot coach, we still finished with the second fewest turnovers in the league (Det 11.2, SA 11.1). Gordon will get acclimated and we’ll be fine in the turnover department.

The Pistons can’t extend Will Bynum until the end of the season. But, he’ll be a restricted free agent so the Pistons can match any offer.

Couldn’t it work similarly to the Maxiell situation last year?

As I watch MFWB continue to dominate, I find myself questioning the BG signing more and more. Would the Pistons really look any worse this year with a three guard rotation of Stuck, RIP, and MFWB?

That said, I can’t seem to figure out what the hell else Jod should have done with the money. Were there really any other free agents out there? Saving the money for next year doesn’t make any sense, since with the cap coming down and player raises he would have been left with MLE type money anyway.

Maybe we could have kept McDyess instead of resigning Big Ben?

All and all, I guess it’s hard to complain too much about the offseason. We all know Tay’s time here is limited anyway, and I just hope Jod can turn him the missing piece.

Waulie, i think the biggest difference between mfwb and bg is the range. Adding bg gave us a floor spacing guard. rip/mfwb/stuck don’t have that ability. cv/bg give us out side shooting that jod obviously thought we were missing. I like Q playing with the pieces, too. Sure, stuck at the 3 won’t happen too much regular season, but we can create a ton of match up problems for other teams when we have that kind of flexibility from our roster.

That said, I can’t seem to figure out what the hell else Jod should have done with the money. Were there really any other free agents out there? Saving the money for next year doesn’t make any sense, since with the cap coming down and player raises he would have been left with MLE type money anyway.

I keep telling myself, “This is a 2-3 year plan …” I forget that often, though.

Personally, I like signing either BG or CV in isolation, but I don’t like the signing of them together (at least I don’t like it right now). Personally, I would have really liked signing CV in tandom with aggressive pursuit of a big man (which we all assume is in the works at some point in the not-too-distant future). I assumed that Jod’s first move would be to fill the hole in the middle with a long-term solution.

Instead, he’s opted to go with two guys who can score, which created some redundancy and confusion for our guards (but also gave us incredible depth at G) and opted for short-term spare parts in the middle.

If our bigs can sustain the level of play they have right now, then Jod’s demonstrated once again that he’s smarter than me. Or, if Jod turns Rip or Tay into a dominant C, the same will be true.

So in specific answer to your question, I guess what I would rather have seen (which still could very well happen) is getting the middle solidified first for the long-haul. It’s the order and timing that’s confusing to me.

Finally got around to watching the game-recap video. Did anyone else notice that four of the Pistons “highlight” scores were assisted by MFWB?

Shannon Brown’s dunk.

It was pretty awesome but I think that Deron elevates a little bit more than Brown.

It would be exciting to see Brown, Deron and DeRozan face off in a dunk contest.

Bynum’s weird stat line keeping in mind that the Pistons won both of their games.

Min 42
Points 38

+/- and whopping – 23.

The only guy close to Bynum in negative +/- is Daye with a cumulative – 16.

How does a guy score 38 points in 42 minutes in two relatively easy wins and wind up with the worse +/- of all the guys on the team?

Maybe the +/- person should be fired or maybe just maybe…………

@Mike:
Against Miami, Bynum’s man combined for 8 points total when Will was on the floor. Miami’s scoring was coming from the 3-5, not from Will’s defensive assignment. He scored, but the frontcourt gave up more than he provided.

Against Milwaukee, it was a mixed bag. I didn’t want the game so I don’t know what to think, and the play-by-play isn’t as clear as it was for Miami.

I don’t think there is anything to worry about— since MFWB was one of a few players who actually finished last season with a net positive +/-.

Oh, and also:

TRADE THE +/- PERSON NOW, EVEN THOUGH IT’S NOT A PERSON WHO DOES IT.

Oh, and also:

TRADE THE +/- PERSON NOW, EVEN THOUGH IT’S NOT A PERSON WHO DOES IT.
=———————

That comment sounds like a PDS comment!!! You betcha!!

I don’t think we should worry about Bynum’s +/- just yet — for one, he played a stretch in Monday’s game sharing the court with Austin Daye, Jonas Jerebko, DaJuan Summers and Chris Wilcox, where, I’m assuming, Summers was playing SG. That’s the stretch where Wade had two fast-break And 1s in a row (which immediately preceded Daye’s highlight reels block).

I don’t know how that three-guard lineup did in terms of +/- on Wednesday, but they admitted after the game that it was the first time they’ve tried it, not even in practice. Preseason +/- counts as much as preseason wins-losses — you want it to look nice, but in the end it doesn’t matter.

@TDP

What does the refs calling 68 fouls have to do with our guards shooting well from the field? I’m guessing you’re assuming that some of those shooting fouls would not have been called so the misses associated with them were not counted but my guess is that the shooting fouls called were on drives to the hoop more often than set jumpers…more contact would be expected so maybe those fouls called against our guards were still relatively legitimate.

And the other side of the coin is that 68 fouls called screws up the pace of the game. A player who is hot can go cold quickly when the game is starting and stopping like that. The fact that they continued to shoot well despite the poor flow to the game is equally impressive.

Lastly, the terrible officiating may play directly into our team’s advantages. Deep low post defensive presence allows us to foul more often inside combined with aggressive, slashing, attacking guards who are more likely to draw fouls…

Who wants to bet Iverson suffers another injury right before January 27?

Maybe he’ll have a bwoken hawt.

@mike payne… your minions apparently get off to your musk scent here…a little quid pro quo b\w you and I, yet your sick clones come out and defend you like they would Princess Leia, even though they are short in comparison to regular storm troopers.

@AI comments in general; yes there is an axe to grind against his nuclear comments and very apparent lack-of-team-mentality. I stuck up for him about half the time last year, but as I don’t have insider access like Payne & Watson, I didn’t know just how awful this guy truly was until he went to go blow, Mr. Integrity, Scoop Jackson. He’s a douche, and there are reasons why the Grizz were the only team that he could land with. however, he’s not on the stones anymore, we didn’t play the grizz last night, why do I keep reading about AI?

@Refs- yes, replacement refs call more fouls. Please get over it. Adjust to the game flow, quit bitching.

Re the turnovers, I’m hardly panicking — it’s two preseason games after all. But, brgulker, saying, “well, a lot of them were from Gordon” doesn’t exactly reassure me, given that Gordon is going to get a lot of minuts.

Beyond that, I’m probably more concerned that Stuckey only had one assist (which created the second straight crappy A/TO ratio). But again, it’s only the second preseason game, and again, they were playing without Charlie V. whom, I hope, will be the recipient of a bunch of Stuckey assists in the regular season.

So yeah, overanalyzing, but what else is there to do right now?
 
And +100 to Mike P. for the "TRADE THE +/- . . . " post.

I have tried to understand why people think that +/- can actually tell us anything about individual players.

Take our game against Miami, for example. Rodney Stuckey was +13 while Ben Gordon was -2. Combined, their shooting percentage was, what, around 20%, and they combined for 10 TO’s and 6 assists.

Bynum played fantastically, but he finished the game -13.

I rather enjoy +/- when looking at groups of players, because I think that can actually tell us something. But I don’t understand what rationale gets you from there to individual contributions.

I think Gordon being a 4th quarter threat (as far as I know) had a bit to do with Dumars going after him. He closed some good sized gaps almost singlehandedly and daggered (not a word) several teams for the W. Dumars may’ve thought that BG187 was the biggest game-changer out there most likely to sign with Detroit- and got him. He got a very competitive dude not yet in his prime.

Thanks for the flyass pre-seez analysis yall

Anyone see the highlights for the Boston game? Big Baby started walking to the locker room after the first quarter thinking it was halftime. And Sheed, of course, got T’d up.

bahahahaha…I can’t wait to see Boston crash and burn.

@mike payne… your minions apparently get off to your musk scent here…a little quid pro quo b\w you and I, yet your sick clones come out and defend you like they would Princess Leia, even though they are short in comparison to regular storm troopers.

A Star Wars insult? Really?

@Shinons:
I don’t understand dude’s man-crush in the first place. And what minions?

BTW

When are we gonna do a Chi-town DBB night of debauchery? I think we play the Baby Bulls 2.0 on 12/2, which is unfortunately a Wednesday (unless of course you don’t give a shit).

I don’t know, but we better be nice to him before he really unleashes the big dogs – Harry Potter referenced insults!

@ Joel, MP:

I’ve got December 2nd on my calendar, and I’ll be there. Which one of you knows the United Center well enough to select the best tickets/seats?

@PS, Joel:
I’ll be there, and yes I do not give a shit that it’s a wednesday. I’ll shoot you both an email shortly…

From ESPN:

Jerebko has been suspended one game for retaliating against Magloire on Monday. Magloire got two games for starting it.

Why am I so fascinated by this Swede?

Honestly, it looked like Jerebko’s hit was accidental. I know he’s claimed credit for it, but I’m not buying (think he’s trying to save face).

I think Jerebko might be our version of the Suns’ Amunson— you know, awkward foreign white guy who hustles and pisses other players off to the point where he’s routinely getting into scraps… the natural continuation of the Ginobli/Nocioni/Scola “annoying white guy” collective.

I am very happy that we have him. I’ve wanted an annoying bastard for so long.

I never even saw a camera angle that showed Jerebko hitting him at all. Did I just miss it? Either way, when a 72 year vet (or whatever he is) gets pissed off enough in a preseason game to smack a rookie, I’d say Jerebko might just be an Annoying Bastard.

And, I like it too.

I agree with the previous three posts (by brgulker, Joel, and Waulie).

The only thing I can think of is that he hit Magloire back with his right hand, the one that was obscured from view by the players that stepped in.

More like the reFplacements. God I’m good.

wolf blitzer v. Mike Payne 2010 = Everyone v. LawyerBoy 2009 = Boney v. cooth, grammar, spelling ability?

TRADE AMIR, DEROZAN AND ANYONE ELSE WHO WENT TO MY HIGH SCHOOL NOW!!!

How is khandor not in that list, Boney? That was a nuclear flame war up in this beyotch.

Everyone 3====> khandor’s ass

Yeah, that’s a penis.

@PS,Joel, MP:

I’m tentatively down with some debauchery on 12/2 as well. I live like a mile from the United Center and I generally have a handle of Canadian Club on hand so that would be a cheap way to start off the evening if you gentleman feel so inclined.

@ Colin et al.:

Good idea, Colin. How’s the street-parking situation around your place?

Parking isn’t bad around here. Never had a problem.

Joel’s dialup 56k era schlong over there reminded me of this excellent tweet from “RealTracyMorgan”, my newest following on twitter:

“my dickhead is shaped liked a darth vadar helmet. my dick is so fat it looks like r2d2.”

about 12 hours ago from web

They ref like the Replacements usually played. I saw the Mats once in LA live, they were so drunk they couldn’t even finish the show.

It’s only the second exhibition game, and some of the regulars are in regular season mode already lol.

Boney, imma let you finish, but Petey had one of the best flames of all time. OF ALL TIME!

“Liz Lemon, you are so wise. Like a genetically modified shark.”

Tracy Morgan is a genius.

Just watched that exact episode last night on netflix.

I watched it a couple nights ago actually. On Netflix. Which is one of the greatest things of all time, BTW.

Do you guys watch netflix through your PC or on your xbox or what? Netflix on my Xbox has exposed me to some of the most fantastically terrible films of all time…oh and all of Mystery Science Theater 3000 is now up there.