With Jonas Jerebko and Austin Daye coming along and Hamilton and Stuckey getting time at small forward, one can see where Prince could be expendable.

I have loved the play of Jonas thus far. And Daye’s had his moments, too. But I think calling Tay “expendable” at this point waaaaay overstating the value and readiness of our rooks at this point.

Tay’s expendable.

As usual, I’ll say what brgulker is afraid to say and what Joel has already said:

Tay’s expendable.

Joel +1

There is no doubt in my mind, regardless of what Joe D says to quiet the talk that someone is on their way out soon. I just hope whatever trade happens is a flexible trade. This team we have right now is tough. 5 games in and you can see this team is a Detroit team. OH I LOVE SAYING THAT. So if they are going to get somebody its obviously going to be a big so I hope that if its someone who doesn’t end up a good fit the system we aren’t stuck with them forever or isn’t tradable. Plus I want a good value. For all the negative talk on Tayshaun hes a damn good player.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yljwwrg

It works, everyone gets what they want (or want out of), and I daresay it makes us quite scary.

Fail.

I don’t know how to find the URL for the “successful trade” page, but basically:

Detroit gets Marc Gasol and Marko Jaric (bad contract— the only reason Memphis agrees to the trade).

Memphis gets Przybilla and Webster/Outlaw (either/or).

Portland gets Tayshaun/Wrong Dejaun (technically doesn’t need to be involved, but I can’t stand looking at him on our sideline when the Right Dejuan could be, so he’s a throw-in to sweeten the deal).

Memphis replaces their big with another serviceable big and gets a promising young wing who defends and shoots well (description fits both guys).

Portland gets their man and a “promising” young guy who I guess could “try” to “contribute” or something.

I would say that Tay is our most valuable trade asset. However, I would say that trading him does leave us with a SF issue, beecause I don’t think either of the rooks is ready for big minutes just yet. Rip could be a stop-gap at the three, but that leaves us thin in the backcourt. As I said before, it’s easier to find a quality SF than a quality big man, so if moving Tay nets us a quality C, I’m all for it.

I think saying that Tay’s expendable understates his value to this team in the now. That’s all meant by that.

Joel,

Do you think Portland is likely to move Pryz? Do they have a backup C if the ydo?

I think that finding a small quality forward is hard but I also think that its easier to cover up talent deficiency at SF than at PF or C if you have other quality players at the other positions. Cuz right now we are hurting without any real size, scoring threat or depth at the big positions.

@brgulker

Not really but if they were really interested in Tay this summer, like was reported, they had to have known we’re expecting a big in return, and they’re sure as hell not giving up Oden.

Also, if we got a quality big, like say Marc Gasol, we could play CV a lot more at his natural SF spot. Between CV, Rip, and the Rooks, we should be covered at SF, and between CV, Max, Wilcox, and the Rooks, we should be covered at the PF. Then we have Gasol, Ben, Kwame manning the paint, which should be enough depth to keep Wilcox off the floor permanently— seriously, I was high on the guy when we signed him, but he looks literally inept at all things basketball.

Joel,

I can’t see Portland wanting to move Joel Przybilla now. That’s basically saying that the team is ready for Greg Oden to play big minutes, which he clearly isn’t. Now Oden’s offensive game is slow to come around, but that’s not the big problem at the moment. The more significant problem regarding Oden is that he’s still too foul-prone to be relied on to play solid defense 30+ minutes a game, and the Blazers would be screwed at the center position if Oden has to sit on the bench because of foul trouble and Przybilla’s gone.

By the way… this is my first post after being a long-time lurker. Great site.

Tay is expendable, agreed. He’s also solid though, so I hope we don’t just trade him for nothing, you know, like what we got back for afflalo, billups, and mcdyess.

Chris Kaman’s contract sucks.

@Joel – I was high on Wilcox as well. So far, 5 games into the season he is my biggest disappointment.

I also agree that the word “expendable” when talking about Tay may be a little strong. I think with the promise that the rookies have been showing, it surely makes it easier to have to part ways with Tay, but he still has some game.

What you said is true about Portland letting go of Pryzbilla if they are indeed THAT interested in Tay. But I’m not sure that they are THAT interested in Tay. Pryzbilla has game, and that’s hard to come by these days at the C. But then again, he should probably be starting somewhere…

Gasol is a good player and could be a damn good player in my opinion. Lot of potential, plus hes a tough player. It would be nice if we really could land that guy but I don’t see it happening. Pryz is good & I could actually see that one happening.

Yeah Wilcox. FAIL.

“Chris Kaman’s contract sucks.”

23pts/10reb/2blk/60%fg

He’s been the best center in the league so far this year. I’ve always said it— Healthy Chris Kaman is worth every penny of that contract, maybe more. The operative word though is “healthy.” But he’s without a doubt worth that contract. And Camby’s healthy and playing well too, so it’s not like he’s just getting #‘s by default— the guy’s on absolute fire. #1 center in all of fantasy and on track to be the starting C or at least the bench C for the West in the All-Star game.

@Joel

Co-sign on using Summers as a throw-in. I suggested the same thing in last night’s game thread, for the same reason. Also, I am down with getting Kaman. He’s a versatile scorer, great rebounder, and quality shot blocker. I have confidence that Arnie could keep him healthy. And it doesn’t hurt to bring him back home to Michigan.

And then we could all hang out in his backyard and do ridiculously illegal shit, like shooting up old Ford Tauruses with military grade machine guns or lighting off insane amounts of illegal fireworks.

Has Kaman played a full season? 75, 56, 31 games in the last three. Big contract, high risk. Plus, he’s prone to playing with guns, fireworks, and other stupid shit. I knew him in college and he’s dumb enough and reckless enough to end his own career at any time.

@PDX

Valid, valid, and valid points. Still, Arnie seems to be magic. There’s just something about the Detroit Pistons and their players almost always being healthy— I don’t think it’s a coincidence. When’s the last time anybody, starter through bench, had a serious or season-ending injury? Fuck, Grant Hill only missed like 16 games in 5 years here.

And let’s be honest, what professional basketball players don’t have highly illegal hobbies? I just have this gut feeling that him coming home and playing for his home-state club would push him (and us) to another level.

I’d rather have Gasol though, no doubt. He looks like he might end up being better than his brother— he’s only 24.

16 games in 6 years, actually.

Mateen Cleaves and Charles Rogers were both from Michigan as well…

just sayin’

A few weeks ago, we were having the “De/aJaun” conversation, and I said that I doubt Summers will even be in the league in three years (which makes not taking Blair that much stupider, even if his knees only last that long). People thought I was stupid for saying so, argued that Summers has all the right skills, tools, etc. Now, we’re talking about literally dumping him, and no one’s batting an eyebrow.

Who wants to get rid of DaJuan Summers now? Wow… to say that this would be a premature knee-jerk reaction to have at this point would be an understatement.

Someone give Brgulker a +1, or a gold star or something.

BG should be getting atleast a little talk around the L for his play, I kow its only 5 games but… his numbers are great.

25pg 4rb 3ast 50%FG 40%3PFG 90%FT and 1 steal.

Very solid start.

I don’t necessarily want him gone on his own merit, I just think that if we need to sweeten some type of deal with a young athlete off our bench, he’s without a doubt the guy who’s gone.

Plus, like I said, I just can’t stand seeing him on our bench, doing absolutely nothing, while the Right DeJuan would absolutely be contributing for us. Call it killing two birds with one stone maybe.

Personally I never said shit about dumping Summers. He’s in his rookie year. We’re not talking about Chris Wilcox, a guy you can easily debate about in terms of roster worthiness, and what he can offer a team. Again, Summers is a rookie and we’re 5 games into the season..

I definitely agree rban- That dude is just a baller, I’m very happy to have him in Detroit. No question.

I’m probably blind to a lot of Prince’s failings because he’s my favorite player but I think he brings a lot more to a team than is obvious. He’s an extremely low turnover player who is at least average in the other aspects of the game and you can win with a TO advantage alone if you carry it across your roster.

Re: A trade. I’m not sure what Portland is doing but for me they have too much depth now at PG, SG, and SF and it’s time to swap some depth to build the best 8 man rotation they can and make a run at a title.

@brgulker
I think it’s easy for fans to overestimate what a rookie, especially a second rounder, can bring to a team. Few second rounders contribute much, which is why many of us wanted a guy that would very likely contribute something, even if it was only for a few years. Blair is a rotation big for a team with legitimate title hopes. I wonder if we could use him.

@brgulker

I’ve been with you on the Right/Wrong DeJuan situation since the Draft Night thread when we all watched it happen realtime. To this day I’m still mystified. And don’t even get me started on Budinger. Remember last year? We take a narcoleptic who barely even played in college over a legit 7-footer from a legit program who was supposed to go in the lottery and somehow fell into our laps (athletic 7-footer… we don’t need those, do we?) in the early second round (Deandre Jordan in case you’re wondering).

I feel like Joe sometimes outsmarts himself with these late draft picks, trying to hit homeruns when he’s got easy doubles and triples right in front of him.

I’m loving the BG acquisition as well.

And regarding Chris Wilcox… I say let’s give him some time before judging him as a complete failure. In the past Wilcox has shown that he’s best utilized offensively as a roll guy in pick-and-roll plays, and so far the Pistons had been mainly dumping the ball to him in the low post and counting on him to score that way which is not his specialty. Now that’s no excuse for his subpar interior defense and poor rebounding performances on both ends of the court, however.

I always kind of assumed Tayshaun would be a Piston for life and eventually move into a Dumars-esque role in an office.

Joel,

I have yet to watch Houston play … but I really want to. They, as a team, intrigue me. And your recent comments about Budinger piqued my interest as well.

Garrett,

Yeah, thing is, though, he’d have to take a big pay cut next time around in order to do so, don’t you think? I mean, if I’m him, I’m not sure I choose loyalty over several million.

brgulker: Maybe he can ask Ben Wallace for some advice on that, seeing how it worked out for him. :)

Regarding Tay as a “Piston4Life”, Mr. Dumars has shown himself to be stone fucking cold as a businessman. He’d trade his own kid if the deal was right. That’s kind of why I love him though.

Good point, Joel.

I wonder about Joe’s motives for the Ben Wallace sigining. I liked it from the beginning, because I thought Ben could still help on the floor; I wonder if Joe thought the same, or if he anticipated that Ben would be more of a locker room leader (or even if there were some sentimental reasons).

I would like to see a whole season of Rip, Tay, Big Ben and Q.

I want the young guys to learn to “play the right way.” Once that happens, then maybe okay with moving them. But, let’s see what this team can do (COMPLETELY HEALTHY) before we start talking about blowing it up.

Totally off-topic:

I was looking for Warriors blogs so I could see if people more into the team than I could tell me what the fuck is going on with Anthony Randolph’s (lack of) playing time— dude’s per-36 numbers are retarded, and literally fills up every stat when he’s in the game 5 minutes or 30 minutes. So I stumble onto Golden State of Mind (goldenstateofmind.com) and what do I find? Fantastic, HILARIOUS articles by the mods and surprisingly knowledgeable/funny/insightful comments to said articles. It’s worth checking out if you’re a fan of hoops/funny writing/the NBA in general.

Oh, and it turns out that Nellie is fucking retarded. That’s all. I guess that makes sense.

Randolph’s on my fantasy team. I guess should have prefaced that comment first so it made sense.

Joel: GSoM is definitely awesome.

@Joel:

Oh, and it turns out that Nellie is fucking retarded. That’s all. I guess that makes sense.

Or just drunk ALL the time. The dude is an obvious lush.

@Sean W.

For sure. Did you read any of the transcripts from his and Mark Cuban’s court hearing? Absolutely hilarious. A few excerpts from the FanHouse article:

-Nellie blaming his assistant coaches for getting him drunk and making him sign an extension to stay in Dallas in 2003.
-Nellie answering his door with khakis, no shirt and a glass of scotch.
-A philosophical discussion of hugs. Actual quote:

    [Arbitrator]: And so at the press conference, how — did y’all shake hands?

    [Cuban]: Yes, sir, and I hugged him back. I hugged him; he didn’t hug me.

    [Arbitrator]: Y’all both hugged each other?

    [Cuban]: I hugged him. He didn’t hug me back. I know a Nellie hug, and that was not a Nellie hug.

I’ve met Mark Cuban. He was approachable, funny, and clearly very smart. If he claims Nellie’s a douche I believe it.

From Yahoo! Sports:

“One NBA general manager said the Philadelphia 76ers are still actively trying to move center Samuel Dalembert. A league source said the Sixers contacted the Warriors to see if they had any interest in Dalembert, but talks never progressed. The Warriors are still trying to trade Stephen Jackson but have yet to field a suitable offer. The Cavaliers remain interested in the veteran swingman.”

Samuel Dalembert is probably the only center that the Pistons have a realistic shot at trading for, and that’s too bad. $10M is way too much to pay for his skills set.

@Joel:

I didn’t even know those transcripts were available. I’m going to have to take a look. Looks pretty entertaining.

Nellie answering his door with khakis, no shirt and a glass of scotch.

Except this. Which is just wrong.

Quick Darshan: Agreed.

In addition, I think everyone is way ahead of themselves with trade rumors. I think Tay’s toe injury could easily have caused a sore back and the only cure for that is putting those bunny feet up a couple games. I thought Rip would be more expendable until Chuckles got playing time. Then I realized that an amazing 5 guard rotation will keep us fresh all year.

Rip and Tay are easily our best one-on-one defenders (’cept big ben) and perimeter defenders. We can score from 1 to 4, why is it so written in stone that we need a scoring big?

Easy buckets and it would clear up more open looks for our shooters.

@Joejoejoe

Good point on Tayshaun’s turnovers. He is a remarkably mistake free player (very rarely fouls, too). That sort of stuff doesn’t really stick in your memory, though, so it can be underappreciated.

Holy. Shit. Did anyone else see this yet? Dwight Howard— Jesus Freak…

From porn star Mary Carey, who apparently ran for governor at one point, and talked about her relationship with Dwight Howard to a Sacramento radio station:

    “Dwight’s a cool guy. For a month, we like talked on the phone, and he was always trying to give me prayers to get me out of porn and give me Bible verses to read. So then, I was going to go visit him when I was in Orlando, but I went over to this other guy’s house instead, Chris Kirkpatrick from N’Sync. And then Dwight started calling, and calling, and calling me, because he knew I was with Chris Kirkpatrick, so eventually at 3 in the morning, Chris was like don’t answer Dwight’s calls. I get a text from Dwight at 3 in the morning – I’m outside Chris’s house. I’m like oh my god, what do I do? I was like, I got Dwight here and I got Chris in the other room and I’m talking to them back and forth. So finally I had to just pull Dwight in the bathroom and tell him he needs to go home. I was like I’m really sorry, I really like you, but this isn’t the time or place. When I pull him in the bathroom, he pulls his pants down, I was like, whooa. Yeah, and so I ran and started screaming…Well if it wasn’t for the Chris thing at the time, I really liked Dwight and maybe I would have furthered this. But I was at the guy’s house I was dating so it was inappropriate. So he totally thought he totally offended me. So I saved – he and I used to talk on instant messenger, on AOL – so he was apologizing; sorry, that was out of character for me, blah blah blah. I saved all the instant messages and I’ve been putting them all in a book. So I’ve got a lot of evidence. I’ve got an evidence file.”

Haha. Hahahahaha. Haaaaaaahahahahahahhahahaaahahahahhahhahahhaha!!!

LOL… yeah, I read that. Shame on Dwight Howard for falling for Mary Carey. MC must’ve turned him out on an earlier encounter and he wanted more out of it this time around.

Re: Dwight Howard

Gives new meaning to “taking it strong to the hole”.

(I can’t take credit for that line. It was in a related article)

@Sean W.

That is rich.

Hopefully playing Wilcox the last few games wasn’t to showcase him for a trade.

Wilcox trade can’t happen until after Dec. 15, so he has another month to prove he’s heard of this “basketball” game and is rather competent in its rules and objectives.

Oh right. Not only has he played like shit, but it looks like he doesn’t particularly care much either. That’s probably more troubling. Even when CV was struggling, he still looked like he cared.

Did the pistons seek out Wilcox or did he come to them?

oh goodie :)

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2009/11/magic-vs-pistons-video-game-if-stan-cant-beat-em-why-not-eat-em.html

You gotta love how Magic dreads us before every game.

(no offense to Joel or Birdman here, I love you both)

@br,

In reference to Summers, you said: “Now, we’re talking about literally dumping him, and no one’s batting an eyebrow.” After you banged your own drum about how you feel Summers will not be in the league in 3 years and everyone thought you were stupid.

“We’re” means the majority when you don’t reference specifically Joel or Birdman. I’m going to assume you mean “everyone” is not stepping up to the plate to take one for Ol’ Summers. I will take one for the team here…

The support for Summers (the few that actually did) was because the team has proven to be incredibly thin at small forward in recent history. With Summers’ ability to play the 3 or 4, he is versatile enough to fit a need. Considering the system he came from in Georgetown, and our fearless GM’s respect for G’Town’s system, Summers is in line to be a solid pro and even moreso, perfect for a Pistons uniform.

Drafting big men is a crapshoot. Unless you pick a guy who can flat out dominate (Chris Webber, Shaquille) right away, it’s best to stock up on swing men who can fill it up and d it up. Big men are best as FA signings or as mentioned before, a can’t miss in the draft.

I feel Summers’ body, his skillset, and abilities that I’ve seen at many G’Town games, will translate into reasonable success for the franchise. I do not feel he is a game breaker, but he is solid in just about every aspect of his game. I believe Jod is done drafting bigs unless they’re can’t miss talents, and I fully support the decision.

The health concerns of a guy that has caused every team in the league to pass on him until the Spurs took a flyer on him in Round 2, are enough to make me support the decision to pass over the guy. I do not believe that Blair will be a solid NBA defender. while he may rebound at a record collegiate pace, I would not expect him to continue his career opening pace that he’s on.

There, support for Summers. I’d hate to see him go, I feel he’s a Piston type player on a team that has been short of Piston type players since 2006.

I dunno, does herpes seek you out, or do your own bad decisions bring them upon you?

But in order to get talent you have to give up talent…

Detroit has depth in the backcourt and on the wings. Obviously Gordon is untradeable which leaves Rip and Tay…

Rip and Tay’s contracts aren’t enough to necessarily take back a good player with a not so good contract. Guys like Daye and Summers smaller deals need to be used.

Jod probably does not want to trade any more of the youth he’s acquired but must do so in order to shore up the front court.

Should read:

@bmr007

I dunno, does herpes seek you out, or do your own bad decisions bring them upon you?

I suppose your own bad decisions bring them upon you, so does that mean the pistons sought him out?

Well it was either him or Drew Gooden, and I’ve watched Gooden play. He can. I’ve seen it. He actually was one of the reasons the Cavs beat us in ’07. How Wilcox at the same age, same money, and 1/4 skillset winds up with us is beyond me.

Off topic, but check out the video CV just posted up on his twitter page. That chick looks even more hardcore than Bill Laimbeer, talk about cheep shots.

Boney, do you consider Gordon untradeable because of his value to us or his contract?

(legit question)

I would assume value. While Kobe and Wade are averaging more ppg, neither of them are even close when it comes to FG% and 3p%, let alone TS%. The efficiency will no doubt fall back to normal for FG%, but we know the 3p% is legit. So for the %10 mil he’s making, considering his defense actually isn’t too shabby, he’s definitely worth the contract.

Skylar,

Contract (can’t trade him yet), age and ability, carrytheteam factor (as in, he’s carrying the team offensively).

As soon as we have someone to take his spot offensively, I’m all for dumping him if it makes the team better.

There are no sacred cows on this team, everyone is available if it helps us win if I’m the GM.

My view of the roster:
Stuckey (untradeable, he is playing over his contract never be able to get equal value)
Gordon (untradeable for reasons above)
Tay (very tradeable as there are teams looking for leadership at the 3 who have young 3s that haven’t stepped up. His contract expires after next year.)
CV (Untradeable because of his recent signing. Plus I feel he’s getting below market value this season and next)
Ben Wallace (someone would likely take him for the stretch run, but as long as we need bigs he’s the guy I want)
Maxiell (tradeable even though he has an unfavorable contract. his decline can be viewed as lack of consistent PT)
Hamilton (semi-untradeable in the fact that we’ll have to suck up a bad contract in order to get rid of him for a difference maker)
Bynum (you’ll never get market value for him on the trade market to match his salary)
Kwame (expiring deal, not making much. #2 big on the team)
Summers (very tradeable piece, could add to a Tay or Rip to get a solid young player and a bad MLE or larger contract)
Daye (tradeable, see Summers)
Jerebko (untradeable, I have a feeling that JOD loves this guy)
Wilcox (untradeable until his contract is able to be traded)

So I count what, 4-5 guys that could be moved? 2 of which I have moving only to be paired up to make salaries work. All other players are contributors, in my mind.

I’d like to point out that after his skills and athleticism, his most useful talent is the ability to draw fouls. Lets face it, he’s a brilliant actor. I can’t remember how many times he played Rip or Stuck last year into getting an easy foul call. Remember that 4 point play he hit to clinch the game in (I believe) January? Stuckey barely touched him after the shot and he flew onto the ground. Just look at him – he’s a strong guy, we’ve even seen him dunk on people. Plain and simple, he knows how to get foul calls with terrific acting.

If he can just teach Stuck how to get easy calls instead of bulling to the rim and getting swatted for nothing, he might just be worth an additional $5 mil.

Right, I definitely feel that way. Kuester is known as I see it as a defensively-minded coach, if he can get these new kids to up their defensive game and still score, we’d have a fantastic team.

As far as trading the young guys, isn’t it difficult to trade players on their rookie contracts? I remember something about that, but the NBA salary rules give me a headache.

Oh, and love ya too Boney. Let’s hug it out.

Speaking of Kuester, my bad has the Cavs offense looked HORRIBLE lately. I think Mike Brown is one of the dumbest coaches in the league, especially now that he constantly whines about LeBron not getting calls.

On trades think we should hold til trade deadline ,see what we have , unless someone throws a can’t miss in our lap.On Tay always like him as a player ,but given up on him ever taking that next step along time ago. And really getting sick of him passing up open shots ,if we can get a good deal I say trade him.On the game tonight Pistons win in overtime.

On NBA.com, they have an article that Prince is out indefinately for back problem. Yup, he’s a gonner. Maybe this is how Detroit do things. Look at what happened to AI last year. Back problem my ass.