Lets gets this trade done already, I wanna see Amare!

2 more days gentlemen…and ladies.

Good idea. I’m glad that we’ll be pairing our bigs with similar skill sets together. Opposing coaches have difficult enough jobs as it is without worrying about the Pistons.

I understand Curry is nervous, but jeez, this makes a lot less sense than when Flip ran his starters into the ground. First, it’s not like we’re in some close race for the top playoff seed that will play a role in getting to the NBA Finals. Whether or not we get home court advantage against the Hawks, it’s pretty darn unlikely (I’m sad to say) that Detroit would then beat two of the Celts/Cavs/Magic trio, and without home court to boot.

Second, while Flip maybe should have developed some bench players to help out in key stretches in the conference finals, Curry needs to play the young guys to see if they can be a central part of the Pistons franchise next year and beyond — and if so, to get them integrated and developed ASAP.

Third, the first two points apply even if you think McDyess is actually better, in the short term, as a starter. And as Matt points out, it’s far from clear that’s true (although I love Antonio as a player and as a person, so it’s hard for me to criticize him). Or put another way, even though Amir, Maxy, etc. have been inconsistent, our bench is undeniably better than it was in the Flip years.

(sigh). I love McDyess, but this is a horrible move by Curry. Though what else is new with this guy? Christ, it is like he is not even watching the same games. After multiple late game collapses due largely to our front line being old and slow and providing no threat of shot blocking, clearly the remedy is to play the old / slow / no shot blocking players even more. Not to mention playing either two shooting bigs or two dunkers at the same time. God, how much more sour can this season go?

It can get much more sour. I know we all get tired of these “sources” but ESPN is saying that the Suns are likely going to stand pat after firing Porter. I had doubts that we would land STAT anyway, but now theres just about nothing to look forward to this year after Feb. 19.

I thought Curry said about 3 weeks ago that Amir would be the starter for the rest of the year? This is just another example of Curry changing his philosophy on the fly and contradicting something he’s said before.

I wish he would have stuck with everything he was preaching all summer…defense, rebounding, points in the paint, and less minutes for our core guys so we can take advantage of our youth and depth.

“At this point, we’ve had so many different lineup changes, it really doesn’t matter,” Tayshaun Prince said. “We just have to start playing together and try to get some wins. Dyess will help us defensively and rebounding and he will make some shots. But the key to it all now is, who’s going to be that big coming off the bench for us?”

’Nuff said.

HOW DOES CURRY STILL HAVE A JOB??? SERIOUSLY, HIRING CURRY IS THE WORST MOVE OF THE DUMARS ERA, EVEN WORSE THAN PICKING DARKO MILICIC.

F
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MCIAMFI

From all that I’ve read, it doesn’t seem likely that Joe D is going to stray from his original plan to create cap space. I wouldn’t count on any blockbuster trades this year, and I don’t expect Curry to go anywhere. He’s the lowest paid head coach in the NBA, and this seems to be a throwaway season. I’m hoping to see Bosh come in on a sign and trade this summer, and I’m hoping to see AI go away- although, if he comes off the bench for the MLE, that wouldn’t be bad. I’ll be sad to see Sheed and Tay go, but I expect that to happen also. As far as starting ‘Dyess again, I second everything Toledo Joe said. This has been a disappointing season, but I’ve been through disappointing decades before, so it’s not all that bad. I guess.

I can’t say it any better than you, Matt. Great post, especially this section:

“This goes completely against Curry’s stated plans earlier in the year to keep either McDyess or Wallace on the floor at all times, but after winning just five of the last 17 games, I guess it’s only natural for a first-year coach to get desperate. It’s what coaches do under pressure (see: Flip Saunders in the playoffs) — when you feel like you’re being graded on wins and losses today, you put your fate in the hands of trusty veterans instead of mistake-prone youngsters.

In other words, you forgo long-term development in favor of immediate gains. And unless it results in a title, it’s a selfish move that does nothing for the organization.

Furthermore, to pin this move on Amir Johnson ("hopefully Amir will play better with some second line guys") is ridiculous, especially when you consider McDyess hasn’t posted a positive plus/minus in the four games since Curry first hinted at the move. In fact, McDyess was absolutely horrendous in at least one of those games — he was minus-24 in the Chicago collapse, looking every bit of his 34 years old while allowing Tyrus Thomas to look like an All-Star. Johnson, incidentally, was +13. Giving McDyess more minutes against better players is not the solution."

I’ve been saying since day one that Dyess and Sheed should almost never play together, because their age is definitely showing. They need a young, athletic big on the floor with them for several reasons: to finish on the fast break (when AI and Stuck are pushing the ball); to finish around the basket and after offensive boards; to rotate and protect the basket on defense when dribble penetration breaks through the perimeter (which is happening far too often).

How MC thinks that starting Dyess will accomplish any of this is beyond me. I love Dyess, and he’s been a monster on the glass — especially of late — but Dyess and Sheed together almost completely eliminates our ability to finish around the rim and protect the basket on defense.

Therefore, the only thing I would tweak about your post is that not only does this hurt us long-term (by limiting minutes of our young talent), it also paralyzes us both offensively and defensively in the short-term.

P.S. I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed Flip’s panicking in the Playoffs.

I don’t see the move as being too significant. Curry had already cut into max’s and amir’s minutes, now he’s just being honest with the players. Dyse was already getting starters minutes and finishing games. Now he starts them, too. BTW, I wouldn’t have minded one bit watching flip panicking in the playoffs again this year.

I like Tayshaun’s reaction:

“At this point, we’ve had so many different lineup changes, it really doesn’t matter.”

Great attitude!

Great post- I completely, 100% agree with every single thing. Also, there was a smaller note in the freep.com article, that terrified me:

“Situations will determine the first big man off the bench, Curry said.

"Come Thursday, Kwame could be the first off the bench playing against Tim Duncan," Curry said."

Ugh… So not only are we throwing away minutes for our young bigs with the line-up change, we’re not even using this change as a means to finally create a stable big man rotation??!!? After every decision he makes, Curry shows himself to be even stupider than I had previously thought possible. Does he not realize that creating a routine is incredibly important for your players (especially young players) to succeed? How hard is it to decide on a big man rotation, and just stick with it?

The most annoying part of this change for me, is that IMO giving Dice a few more minutes per game (then he’s average this year) makes some sense, but those extra minutes should come from Sheed! Not from the younger guys! It’s like Curry’s got a smart/good half of a brain and a dumb/evil half- so just like when he ditched smallball, he understood that either Rip or AI should come off the bench, but his dumb/evil side made him choose Rip. Now, instead of giving Dice some of Sheed’s minutes, he’s giving him Amir’s and Max’s. :( This is not going to end well.

I hope the Detroit press gets in Joe Dumars grill about the inconsistent messages that are being sent about the development of young players and the overuse of veterans. It’s fast becoming a farce.

Anyone see hollinger’s article yesterday mentioning us picking up stat, shaq, and barns for sheed, ai, and herrmann? It would completely rule out any fa signings, but would beef up the front court quite a bit. Not sure that shaq would ever want to put on a pistons jersey.

Amir sucks. I don’t care what you guys say. He’s inconsistent as hell. Give him 15 mins a game off the bench. He needs to be playing against other second line guys, not starting big men anyway. He has his flashes but he and Maximus have sooooo disappointed me this year. In a throw away year, you expect to see youth development. I would feel much better if we we’re struggling but seeing flashes of brilliance from Amir, Max, Stuck and Afflalo. They’ve each had their moments but not consistently. And yes I totallyyyyyyy admit that Curry is half the damn problem here. Still love my ’Stones though.

@Craig: Don’t see how that could be possible. It would leave Phoenix with Sheed as their only big. Also, I thought they wanted back some promising youth in return for Amare.

If MC is as bad of a husband as he is a coach…

For Valentine’s Day, Michael Curry told his wife he was going to take her to Applebees. Not a very good Valentine’s Day idea, certainly there were obvious better options on the table, but what the hell. He’s had worse ideas, so she went along with it. The day before, he asked her if she were excited that he was taking her to see “Taken” for Valentine’s Day. Seriously, “Taken”? Applebees would have been better. So they go out together and instead of the movie theater, Michael takes her to Burger King. After ordering her a Whopper (when he said he was going to get her a chicken sandwich), he busts out his gift. He tells her it’s a bracelet. She opens it to find keychain. Which he removes from the box and replaces with cufflinks…

Nice, Shinons

If keeping MC is a way to save money how about firing him and making Tay a player/coach? Hell you could get a better job done with Sheed as your coach other than 30 3’s a game. Wouldn’t current employee William “Bill” Lambier be a good choice to teach disciple, defense, and toughness???

The Michael Curry Era is killing me. I’ve been avoiding reading Piston related material (DBB included) because it just depresses me.

My problem with all these lineup/rotation changes is that Curry is constantly wanting to “play the match-ups” with opposing teams instead of just letting our guys play THEIR game. Stop adjusting for the other teams game and start playing Pistons basketball and make the opposition adjust to US. My Curry Fury is at an all time high.

“If keeping MC is a way to save money how about firing him and making Tay a player/coach?”

I will also accept the head coaching position at a discount. My price? $140k/yr. My playbook? Written by the comment threads on DBB.

First order of business— re-hiring Michael Curry to take over as Hooper.

You reading Joe? Email me.

E-double, i’m not an “insider”, so I wasn’t able to read the whole piece, but i’m guessing that in order to get out from under shaq’s contract, and have a bunch of cap space this summer, they would be willing to waive the “young talent” part of their demands. So we’d be phoenix east without the talent at pg?

Can we stop with all the Laimbeer talk? There’s a reason he’s never got an NBA job. Same with Rick Barry.

@ Keegan: I hear ya regarding Tay. But I’ll say it again: My fear is that players talk and AI & Sheed talk about MC (just given our body language and Tay’s comments like that “on the record”) no FA’s want to sign with us or we have to pay a premium.

I understand about rebuilding, but we’ve gone in 8 months from a team guys would take under-market value to join to a team that might have to pay a premium to entice guys to sign with us. This is more than the CB/AI trade. This is coaching and front office responsibility.

agreed, agreed, agreed with your analysis on this change in starting lineup
stupid, might as well give amir all the experience he can get all season long… we’re not winning anyways
ah well… expect a ton of DNPs for amir now

Life doesn’t make everybody a good NBA basketball coach. Look at how bad Kevin McHale is as an administrator and how much better he’s been as coach. It’s not personal with Curry, it’s strictly business. His skills a league and union executive didn’t translate into being a good coach. I’d be all for giving Curry time to execute a plan but where’s the plan? I don’t see a plan from Curry so much as I see entropy working it’s magic on what used to be a contender.

Lance Uppercut used Curry Fury! Nice!
And after that initial reaction of joy, I’m now brought back to reality where Michael Curry is our coach and is destroying our team. My Curry Fury is now spreading to Joe D for tanking the season. Seriously. This is not how you say thanks to the fans for supporting the team through thick and thin the last 5 years, selling out the Palace over and over again. It’s insulting.

In fairness to Curry, things haven’t been working well recently, or really for most of the season, so there’s a reason to change things up, especially if there isn’t going to be any big trade/move. And indeed, all season, Curry has been faced with what would be significant problems even for top-level coaches.

The problem is, Curry keeps making decisions that even fan/bloggers can see are the wrong ones.

I kinda like Lam, too, but there must be a reason why he’s been passed over.

I think MC is gone anyway. Your next coach will likely be Porter, Avery, or JVG. The issue with Curry is that he’s just overmatched. Never mind the fact that Larry Brown would maybe get 5 more wins than MC, and that you can argue that MC as a developing coach has been given an unfair situation. You have a number of players which are clearly in decline, and a couple more arguably starting their decline. It’s how MC has handled this which bothers me, and the team probably needs a fresh start for 2009. Playing Sheed and Dice together is sheer desperation.

Everyone sounds thrilled! From Antonio:

"I just want to get steady at being in one position coming off the bench or starting. This year, I really just thought I was going to be coming off the bench the whole year…I guess I’ve just got to go out there and do whatever I can to get us a win."

Is this team officially rudderless? Is it now beyond the point of dispute?

MB,

You are so right about MC destroying the attractiveness of Detroit for FAs. The coveted FAs are smart players. They watch the games. They can spot bad coaching. None of them (Bosh, Wade etc) will sign with us if MC is the coach.

MC has lost the team. You can clearly see it in Prince’s body language. Watch him inbound the ball after the opposing team scores in the opening minutes of the first quarter with the score being, say 4-2. His head’s down, shoulders are slumped, he drags his feet, and just lets the ball roll off his hands. It’s like the 4th quarter of a game when we’re down 20 points with less than a minute to go.

joe-cubed: “It’s not personal with Curry, it’s strictly business”

or should I say Mr. Corleone’

I agree that if there was a plan and we stuck with it (i.e., young guys) then I wouldn’t be so down. But the plan seems to be throw XXX against the wall and hope it sticks.

As for Dyess starting, I think this came from upstairs and was done so we don’t miss the playoffs. Holding onto to 4 or 5 is the best case scenario obviously. Coming in 6th and playing the Magic the first round might give us some hop in our step for the second round. The way we’re playing, Bos/Clev cleans our clock either round.

Around the league, Chandler is going back to Oklahoma City, this time as a member of the Thunder …

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3913301

Looks like Chandler is going to OKC…

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3913301

Good news is this takes OKC our of the running for Boozer/Millsap/Lee since they’ll only have 7 to 8 million in cap space now. We now have the most cap space of any team in the league this summer.

Yeah, besides Memphis we’ll be the only team who can go after a significant FA. Teams will also still be in cost cutting mode so we should have a lot of opportunities through trades to improve the team since we can take on salary with out having to give it up. It’s sad that I already want the summer to begin.

Westbrook, 20 years old
Durant, 20 years old
Green, 22 years old
Chandler, 26 years old

If I’m Presti, I’m wanting AA…

If Boozer opts out, we’re getting him for waaaaay less than max money. First off, if there’s only two bidders, we’re seeing some collusion. Second, he’s got reduced leverage of Artest, Odom, Marion, and Sheed all also being UFAs – that’s not even taking into account the great RFA options. Third, does Memphis really think Boozer is the answer after they’ve changed to an uptempo team? Marion would fit better, cost less, lower risk. And all of that is to add from the injury risk discount. He could end up being a great value…

Jim: Excellent point re: us v. OKC.

I don’t think Joe will lose his credibility at all among FAs. Either Curry will improve (yeah, right) or Joe will do something about it (bingo). Curry’s contract pays him $7.5 million over three years. At 2 years and $5 million left this summer, I don’t care what the economy is, we’re buying that out if we want. I also still think Sheed either re-signs with us or retires but that’s irrelevant anyway.

Joe’s pitch will probably be something like: I have a great pedigree and this past year is all part of the plan for the future (including you, Free Agent X, Y and Z). Play in Detroit. That’s still a winning pitch especially because money talks. All Joe has to do is target the right players in free agency (he usually does) this summer and I truly believe he can reconstruct the Stones on the fly to contend in the East. Of course this year’s class isn’t nearly as glamorous as next year’s, but if Joe can spend wisely, we could re-sign Sheed and Dice and still have a new starting big or bigs and/or serious added bench depth.

Shinons: I think Memphis could throw the money at Boozer. If they wanna, let them. Part of the reason Joe is Joe is because he knows when to stop bidding.

If we can get Boozer for cheap, why not? But, if another team won’t give him lots of money, I’d think Boozer would resign with the Jazz. We could pry away Millsap if we promise him a starting role. Neither one is going to make a huge difference for us though. We’d still be undersized and have mediocre defense around the paint. We’d still need to get an intimidating post presence.

Talking about Jazz players, if Sheed walks, we could go after Okur. He could replace Sheed as the starting center with Dice as his backup. You’d give all the PF minutes to AJ/Maxiell. But I guess that really doesn’t change the current structure of our front court. You gain a little bit of youth and better shooting and give up great basketball IQ, mood swings, and 20 technicals a season. Hmm.

What I would really like is if we can grab Ariza this summer from LA and have him backup Tay/Rip. Going into the 2010 FA market with a roster of Stuckey, Rip, Afflalo, Prince, Ariza, (Boozer/Millsap/Okur), McDyess, AJ, Maxiell and a different coach, might allow us to convince one of the big-name FAs to sign with us.

Well here we go folks! It’s finally upon us! Let’s play ball!

I still say go after Kaman. He’s a great fit for what we need him to do.

Shinons: I think Memphis could throw the money at Boozer. If they wanna, let them. Part of the reason Joe is Joe is because he knows when to stop bidding.

They could. They have the money. But if they were going to pay top money for a power forward and they’ve started running more, why would they bring on a plodder (a la Philly) who is injury prone when just last year they traded away Pau, who would have been a much better fit (not to mention playing with his brother)? Who knows what Chris Wallace might do, but I doubt they’re putting $100 million aside for Boozer…

But, if another team won’t give him lots of money, I’d think Boozer would resign with the Jazz.

I doubt Utah is particularly interested in resigning him considering they would be choosing between signing Millisap, Okur, and Boozer. Seems Okur and Millisap would be their top two choices. But Boozer does have a player option and it would make sense that he would exercise if he doesn’t think he will get paid.

LOL @ Sam Cassell:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3913518&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

I am completely with you on this Matt.

In fact I went so far as to contact Duffy (Johnson’s agent) and strongly implore him to find a way to get Johnson moved to another team, one that will incorporate him into their rotation and offense!!

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I also think that this move had a lot to do with the midget.

Iverson has stated on several occasions how he likes playing with Dyess. Johnson and the midget have seemed to have developed any chemistry on the court together, whereas with Dyess, the midget can penetrate the lane and if he can’t get a shot off can pass it out to Dyess for shot from the elbow. A shot that Johnson has shown he can make just as effectively as Dyess when given the opportunity to shoot it.

=====
Trade Johnson now!!

corr:

never have developed any chemistry on the court together.

LB: I agree, Joe can sell the pistons. It’s Curry I’m worried about. Bring in JVG or Avery, for a minimum of 2.5M (Curry’s salary) and I think it’ll take more, all of a sudden you’re paying the equivalent of 5M a year for a coach for 2 years. Mr. Davidson is going to choke on that.

Boozer’s low post game is adequate, but it’s more a back them down approach and not a post and spin/fade/drop step/etc. That being said, what does that offense do to Rip? I think Boozer’s fate is tied to how the Jazz do this year in the playoffs (if they make it). If they go to the conf finals I think he opts out, particularly if he goes off and proves himself healthy. He needs one more big contract. Something shorter and I don’t think alot of teams line up for him because he didn’t “prove himself” or better said, “he didn’t lead them to the promised land.” And after this year’s injury he’d be an idiot not to opt out. Granted, he’s stacked up against Dirk and Bosh and few others in 2010, but the way everyone is shedding contracts for 2010, somebody will be disappointed and give him an offer that I think will be close to what he’ll get this summer because no one will over pay and he isn’t in the same tier as bosh/wade/bron/yao.

I really think 2009 and particularly 2010 given the economics, that being able to offer guys max contract(s) and signing them is really dependent upon the organization. And right now, particularly the head coach, we are dysfunctional. Not GS dysfunctional, but then again they aren’t the ones we’d be up against. It’s an easier sell to say we found out what our youngs can/can’t do this year and we need you, FA X, Y & Z to come help stabilize because we’ve demonstrated we’ve got young talent here for the next several years. The problem is we got talent, most folks league wide agree, but we just aren’t getting it done. That doesn’t speak well of the organization.

“In fact I went so far as to contact Duffy (Johnson’s agent) and strongly…”

This…actually happened…?

Westbrook, 20 years old
Durant, 20 years old
Green, 22 years old
Chandler, 26 years old

If I’m Presti, I’m wanting AA…>>

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I have followed both Afflalo and Weaver’s careers from when they played in the Pac10.

Weaver is a better defender even as a rookie this year.

The Thunder would be dumb to want to replace Weaver with Afflalo in the starting lineup. That would be a downgrade and I am saying this as a Bruins and Afflalo fan.

"In fact I went so far as to contact Duffy (Johnson’s agent) and strongly…"

This…actually happened…?

=======
It sure did and its not the first time that I have contacted him.

You can reach him by e-mailing here.

http://www.bdasports.com/

I still say go after Kaman. He’s a great fit for what we need him to do.>>

======
Living in Los Angeles and being a Clippers fan. (yes they do have fans) I have closely followed Kaman’s career since the Clipper Ship’s drafted him.

While I think Kaman is a bit of a headcase, he has been and continues to be a favorite of Dunleavy’s. I doubt that the Clippers will trade Kaman as long as Dunleavy is GM.

“The Hornets also received the draft rights to DeVon Hardin, who was selected No. 50 overall by the Thunder in the 2008 draft.”

This trade is going to put the Hornets over the top!

if only the Hornets could’ve gotten Samuel Dalembert or Thad Young as a throw in..

/okay I’m done

I’m baffled that Joe D didn’t make a run at Chandler – esp seeing the fire sale.

Wouldn’t the Hornets have prefered Sheed and a first round pick for Chandler -ie, a better chance this year AND a better pick? Why not pull the trigger on that? Stuck/Rip/Tay/Chandler and 20+ million under the cap for a PF? Am I nuts?

Satchel,

We would have Stuck/Rip/Tay/Chandler and probably less than 10 million under the cap. Chandler’s contract is 11.5 or so and Sheed makes almost 14 mil so we save a couple million but we’re like 12 million over the cap now and would still be about 10 million over the cap if we exchanged Chandler and Sheed. If the Salary Cap stayed the same next year we would be like 10 million under the cap once AI’s contract came off the books. Unfortunately, it looks like the salary cap is going to decrease next year so we’ll likely have less than that. Of course, 10 million is nothing to sneeze at and we could take on a lot of salary without hitting the luxury tax, but our options on the FA market would be constrained. Therefore, I don’t think the trade is such a no-brainer.

Colin: I’d take that trade. Who are we going to sign 09 that approaches Chandler’s fit? So we play out the season and we’re 20M under the cap. Granted, we still wouldn’t have a low post threat, but we don’t have that now on a nightly basis. Chandler’s ability at 11M/yr, it’s a no brainer. And he still comes off the books in 2010.

I didn’t realize his contract comes off in 2010, so that does make it a little more attractive, but I still think it’s a ways from being a no brainer. I’d rather have a chance at David Lee or even Boozer depending on if how he looks at season’s end. I don’t think 8 and 8 is worth 11M/yr.

True, Chandler’s having a subpar season. But the 5 is where i just don’t get what Dumars is up to. Even if we get a prime PF, there is still a gaping hole at center in Detroit – and every serious contender has a quality 5. Am I the only one that thinks this is a problem with the rebuilding plan? Even if Detroit eventually lands Bosh?

8 and 8 11M/yr

Lee would post something similar I think. Let’s just say 12/10 for Lee because some of those rebounds are due to NY sucking on D. And I gotta believe Lee is going to get 9-12M from someone. So we have 12/10 10M versus 8/8 11M. The difference to me is Chandler’s ability to bring his presence in the middle along with the blocks.

Boozer: Max type contract. Simplicity and I’m lame so I’ll go with 18M/yr. But I do think Boozer puts up some of those numbers because of the offense Utah runs, but he’s a legit 20/10 possibilty guy on most nites. But in my view, you’re paying 7M more for 12 points, 2 rebounds but no where near the defensive presence.

I’d still take Chandler.

Wait, I thought amir’s ceiling was chandler? It was suggested here that Amir could be a better chandler. Why would we trade for chandler if we have the better/cheaper version already on the roster?

Ugh, Tyson Chandler? He had a good season-and-a-half of Chris Paul alley-oops before falling off this season. There’s no way he’s worth $11 mil, and NO was smart to get rid of him. Tyson Chandler would not have improved us this year, and moving Rasheed for him would have made us worse.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m as pissed about Sheed’s 3-point romance as anybody— but Chandler has only been momentarily remarkable in his career (and not at all this year). Chandler is not the type of low post presence (offensive or defensive) that would win us any games by adding his presence to our squad. His production should come with an MLE price tag at best, not $11m. And as for taking on his salary for its expiration and little on-court payout? We’re doing enough of that this season…

@Craig:
“Wait, I thought amir’s ceiling was chandler? It was suggested here that Amir could be a better chandler. Why would we trade for chandler if we have the better/cheaper version already on the roster?”

In spite of Amir pooping on my dreams all season, he could still give us Chandler-level production even with his foul trouble. Give him 26mpg, he’ll get us 8 and 8 for $3.5 mil.

MP: Chandler MLE? “Chandler is not the type of low post presence (offensive or defensive) that would win us any games”

Defensive? (Remember, AI is playing out front). Gotta disagree with that & MLE. He still comes off the books in 2010, and I see no reason he and Stuck couldn’t be alley-oop lite.

Chandler-like production from Amir? Seriously? And even if one assumes Chandler remains only an 8/8 guy – I don’t – Amir (or David Lee) can’t guard CENTERS. And even with his hops, Amir is not the constant shot-blocking threat (Chandler is 7’1"… Amir is 6’8" or something). 8/8 from a center is passable. From a PF, it’s unacceptable. Again, I just don’t see what Dumars is thinking about manning the 5.

If Chandler was a shutdown defender, why have the Hornets given up more points per 100 possessions with him on the court this season?
http://www.82games.com/0809/08NOH15.HTM#onoff

I think a lot depends on whether Dumars wants to spin AI+Sheed into 2 elite players or 1 elite player plus some kind of depth (2 very good players, 1 very good and two role players, etc.). I like some of the talent in the very good and role pool in ’09 (Varejao, Ariza) and think that is a good way to go. The danger is Phoenix/Toronto/Chicago pull off a three way deal involving Bosh and Amare and then the number of PF options goes from many to few in one day.

Gabe: Probably because of CP3 & Peja and most everyone else on the court as none of these guys are lockdown defenders, save Posey when he wants to be and West, perhaps. And if he’s on the court rebounding (even 8) but blocking shots and getting the running game going, I think by default they give up more points just from the perspective of setting up a defense in transition to the opposition.

no smiley face. It appears 8 next to ) will give you that.

@MarkButter:
re: Defense— What Gabe said. How did Chandler get a reputation as a solid defender?

re: MLE— Its what his production this season is worth IMO. I can list five MLE-or-less C’s that could be just as productive as Chandler in the same minutes.

@Satchel:
Amir is 6’11"— when a player first enters the league, they are measured for height and weight. As a player grows or gains/loses weight, their numbers are not updated with the league. Amir’s height has been confirmed even by our own Matt Watson, although it is not shown in the stats that have not been updated since Amir was 18-years-old.

“And even with his hops, Amir is not the constant shot-blocking threat” — but he’s a better career shotblocker than Tyson.

My point is that in 26mpg, even with foul trouble, Amir could get us 8-8-2, the same production Chandler gets NO. Not that I want that, but Craig asked…

Does anyone have a link for tonight’s game?

@MarkButter:
The Hornets have been way better defensively with CP3 on the court, I’m not sure why you don’t think he’s a good defender:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08NOH1.HTM#onoff
Peja, you’re right, he’s not good on D; but he’s so important to their offense that he makes up for his badness on defense much more than Chandler does:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08NOH10.HTM#onoff

@MP: Agree about having a defender rep. But by default at 7’ 2" will usually get it done. I also see a better matchup (assuming we could keep him) against NJ Lopez, Howard, Mia O’Neal, and any other low post threat in the East. Who do we have there now? Sheed for 20 minutes a game every other nite? Amir? Dyess?

Besides, NO wouldn’t have taken Amir since they’re looking to cut salary. Amir has next year left on his contract (I believe). Or at worst comes off in 2010. And we still don’t know if the kid is going to be a force. Blame MC or whoever. Would you take Kaman?

@Gabe: Other than big time defensive centers (Hakeem) defense is a 5 man gig. You can’t tell me that in the back of your mind you’re playing D and you wouldn’t take more chances gambling knowing you have Chandler back there.

But in the end, reading ESPN notes on folks in OKC/No looking at this trade, guess which one is happy and which one is sad? And NO even got two ~6’10" guys out of the deal.

You don’t think the core of OKC just got better by adding Chandler to Westbrook, Durant & Green while losing Smith & Wilcox? And the core of NO just got worse adding those two and losing Chandler? NO is not a more competitive team because of this trade. You want Smith/Wilcox guarding Bynum? Shaq? Duncan? rather than Chandler?

@MarkButter:
Would I take Kaman? That’s a much more difficult decision. I think he is certainly more capable than Chandler, but the length of his contract and his injury issues are a pair of star-spangled red flags. If he was healthy, it’d be no question. If his contract was a year shorter, it’d be an easier risk to take.

As for Lopez, Howard and Jermaine, only one of those really commands much respect at present (Howard, obviously) and we just extended our contract with our secret weapon on him. I’ll put Maxiell on Howard quite confidently (and Charles Barkely would agree). The way to handle Howard is a rotation of bigs that’ll keep him from getting comfortable— and keep him on the free throw line instead of the post.

But its the teams like Boston, San Antonio and 2004 Detroit that show that a championship frontcourt is built on the 4 spot, and the 5 is historically anecdotal at best. Nazr Mohammad, Francisco Elson and Kendrik Perkins (sorry, just threw up in my mouth) are NBA champion starting 5’s. So we can get by with a serviceable role player at the 5 as long as he does his job— but we need a monster at the 4.

I agree with the sentiments above that we need to figure out the 5 spot. But Chandler isn’t it.

Who is it? I’m lost! :)

Or Kaman! I think everyone agrees that Chandler (or Kaman) have lots of faults, but I just don’t understand why Detroit isn’t getting into the market for a 5 when there are quality centers available on the cheap.

It’s nothing against Amir, but like MB says, we have no one who can guard the Howard/Shaq/Bynum… hell, even Kendrick Perkins! And even if we get Bosh, I don’t see how that issue goes away.

Pryzbilla would be optimal. Cheap and productive.

I’m so tired of Curry. Give me some Lamb and Beer.

@MarkButter:
You’re right that Chandler, if he plays like he did last season, is by far the best player in the deal. But, he hasn’t been very good this year, and he’s also had nagging foot injuries throughout this season (not a good thing for a 7ft guy) so you’re taking a risk when you deal for someone with a lot of years and money left on his contract, who also hasn’t been healthy and who hasn’t played well since the previous year. Short term, the Hornets got two healthy guys for one guy who hasn’t been healthy consistently this year; the trade definitely won’t help them record-wise, but I don’t think it’s gonna kill them either.

*also, Chandler has a player option for 2010-2011, for almost 13m. There’s no way he turns that down, so any team that traded for him would be eating up a big chunk of their all important, 2010 cap space.

@Gabe: didn’t realize the option year. Yeah, you’re right, that changes alot. As for Kaman, 3/33M left. But I like his low post game alot better.

Mike Payne,

Not sure Maxiell would be as effective against Howard this year since Howard has vastly improved his offensive game. He can actually make a few different hooks now. Maxiell was great at keeping him from getting dunks but I think he would be able to shoot over him now. Plus Curry probably would refuse to give him the chance.

“Plus Curry probably would refuse to give him the chance.”

And after watching last night’s game, that point is all the more clear…

MC is has become nothing more than a less apt version of Flip Saunders — a coach who refuses to play young talent.

At least Flip was a good offensive coach… I never in a million years thought I would miss him, but I do… oh how I do.