So we lack leadership….Oh I know. I heard Chauncey Billups is a great leader. Is he available? Oh yeah….ouch

This hurts even more. And while I immensely respect Dyess, it does start at the top.

“You can write all the emails you want. You can start your own Fire Curry website if you want. Michael Curry isn’t getting fired. Not this year and probably not next year.
Joe Dumars isn’t going to do to Curry what Steve Kerr did to Terry Porter in Phoenix. He’s not going to scapegoat him. This mess here is as much on the players as it is on Curry and it’s going to be cleaned up collectively, or not at all. — The Detroit News”

And here I thought the whole give MC a rookie coach a chance was because of veteran leadership. Either Joe D made a terrible mis-reading of the contents of this team or some folks just want to do their own thing and collect a check.

I’m talking to you Sheed. Nice play to show up at Curry’s presser. You actually had us going for awhile. Too bad it took 55 games to figure out you’re alot more talk than walk.

There is no excuse for a lack of player leadership on this team. Not when we have guys who have rings, guys who have been in the league for over a decade, and a first-ballot hall of famer. I love Dyess, but he is just as guilty here as Sheed, Iverson, Prince, etc. It took courage to publicly say the team lacks leadership. To have a player saying that is a scathing indictment of the entire organization from the top on down. But why hasn’t Dyess stepped up? He is one of the most respected players in the league and he knows that people will listen to him. Sheed may be a lost cause but the young players on this team need someone to tell them to ignore the selfish jerks on the team and keep playing like professionals. No one on the roster could say that with more authority than Antonio McDyess. He fought back from knee injuries that should have ended his career and reinvented himself from being a superstar to being a role player. He took being a salary throw in for the Iverson trade in stride and came back to Detroit. If other Pistons won’t listen to Dyess, then they won’t listen to anybody.

Do it Dyess!! Do it!!!

Of course the team is gonna be lacking leadership once Billups was traded. I said it from the beginning that Joe Dumbo traded the wrong person to get AI. Billups sure is not in the same league as AI but he’s a uniter and look at how well Denver is doing with him. Billups and Camelo is a great combination it is too damn bad that they are not Pistons. Joe Dumbo is it time for you to go little buddy. You have failed so many time that I am surprise you haven’t given yourself a metal.

Chauncey was one of the reasons we got bounced from the playoffs the past four years. He wasn’t a good enough leader to keep Ben playing hard. He wasn’t a good enough leader to keep Sheed from imploding. He wasn’t a good enough leader to keep the guys from turning on Flip. That’s not to say that he’s not a good leader – he certainly is. It’s that we’ve got some combustive personalities on the squad and that not Chauncey or anyone else are really going to prevent them from shutting down when they decide to say screw it and shut down.

I realize what Sheed brings for us, a premiere defender, a monster on the blocks, and a guy who can stretch the court. I love Sheed for what he brought that helped us win in 04. But he’s the most vocal guy and it seems like when discontentment hits him (as it always does) it quickly spreads. Everyone seems to look up to him. We’ve got to get him (and AI, of course) out of the locker room. As much as I’d hate to see him go and would hate seeing him wearing a different jersey, we’re going to keep going through coaches.

From there, we’d still need that veteran leadership. Tay is so soft spoken, Rip isn’t much of a leader, and Stuck is a couple more years away from being able to take that role. So wouldn’t it fall to Dyess by default? That would be a good thing.

Just my two cents.

This one falls entirely on The Midget.

Not only is he a distruptive force on the court by controlling the ball all the time, only Herrmann is worse when he is playing, but all one has to do is look at the MSM media coverage of “Iverson and the Pistons”.

When the hell did it become The Midget’s team?

This guy is such a friggen cancer that even the Mayo clinic wouldn’t be able to help.

Dump him

@HB: I don’t think you should say Joe Dumbo and then follow it up with “I am surprise you haven’t given yourself a metal.” I’m just sayin.

As for leadership, Dyess wasn’t here the first month of the season. Then we went with small ball and he didn’t play alot, so it would be tough to come in after 30 days, not playing and then start telling people things. And that’s never been Dyess’ style. It’s been more by example.

But if you look around, HB does make a good point that this starts at the top. I think players took in the CB trade and said, “well, they’re remaking the roster and we have a rookie coach so ownership must have more to come and this season is a re-building year.”

I do think that by not speaking up after making the trade that we traded “perhaps” one HOF for a sure-fire HOF that winning and hustle was still expected and that Joe D let everyone off the hook, including Curry. There is too much talent on this team to be .500 and that starts with coaching. An article in one of the Det papers says the staff realized without CB’s 3 ability, teams were collapsing the paint so Fabio will get more burn for now. Hell, it’s been 55 games and we’re just figuring this out? Not too mention we play small ball without Fabio. What’s the use of small ball if you’re not shooting 3’s and/or running up and down the court frentically? To see how many games you can get out rebounded?

Joe D may not toss Curry during the season. But if this has proved one thing, it’s that Curry doesn’t have any experience to draw upon to get guys fired up. I’m sick as shit about hearing about MC’s career and hustle and hard work. BFD!! It doesn’t make him a great coach. In fact, it doesn’t even make him a good coach as we’re finding out.

The problem is he hasn’t take control and show no inclination to do so. He had a great opportunity to sit AI’s butt on the bench as 6th man, go with the guys who will be here this year and next (minimum) and say, this is what we’re gonna do.

He’s still an assistant and wants to hang with the fellas. Not make waves and be that go-between. Now that he’s the ONE responsible, it comes to getting guys fired up. Motivating guys. Leadership. Consistent game plans. Rotations. Match ups. Wait. . . I see a trend here. Oh yeah, it’s called COACHING. Hell, we should be glad we’ve won 27 games without any coaching this year. Just think what we could do with some.

The reason that nobody trusts anyone out there is because we’ve jacked with our lineup so many freakin’ times everyone is afraid to leave their man only to get yanked. Christ, we might as roll dice to see who plays. It’d make alot more sense than what we’redoing now. Remember Curry saying Max & Amir weren’t getting it done on D so they got DNP-CD? Everyone will be held accountable was MC’s mantra this summer. Bullshit. Nothing but pure Bullshit. Except AI getting burned repeatedly. We’re tied or up by 2 at Port and AI loses Blake (completely on the other side of the key) and Blake nails a 3 pointer. AI come out? Of course not. Then Curry doesn’t have the balls to put AI on the bench.

Of course, he’ll put Rip there. Then again, it’s only Rip who signed a 3 year extension earlier so Curry’s idea is to take the wuss way out and not piss off AI or his posse. Nevermind the fact that AI’s not here next year, the year after or the year after that. Grow a set Micheal. Take leadership. Take responsibility for not having a GD clue most of the time and stop the “we’re not pointing fingers” bullshit and start pointing fingers. After all, you’re the coach. Make a damn decision, stick with it and hold people accountable.

I’m still wondering how there can be guys who are assistant coaches for decades, and Curry waltzes in as head coach after one season- and nobody had the foresight to at least find a former head coach to back him up? Hell, even Rothstein would have been a help. As far as I can discern, Davidson thought MC would be a great coach because he owns a house in Detroit. It’s looking more and more like this season was supposed to be a wash. As far as leadership, Toledo Joe nailed that one on a previous thread. We are screwed.

Here’s some more Furry Curry goodness for y’all..

“Curry has been critical of the team’s ability to handle adversity. And he says it didn’t start this season. He points to the team’s collapses in the conference finals the last two seasons.

Curry reminds us of how he was a no-nonsense player who didn’t make excuses, and it’s obvious he wishes this team would take on more of his personality."

bangs head to desk***

The blame spreads wide on this team. I know Iverson said he doesn’t think finger pointing will occur, but I think it will. Billups aired out Roscoe weeks after his trade after years of intense camaraderie.

I know Chauncey’s gone, but when so many of your squad are still healthy and present, there’s no reason you shouldn’t act like the dominant team you’ve been for so long. The shit I’ve seeen since his departure is overwhelmingly embarrassing for this franchise.

It’s strange, like nobody in this organization really analyzes the failiure this season, just us dudes on the computernets.

I don’t think Curry will suddenly undergo a divine metamorphosis into a competent coach. You can call the season a wash if you want, but then you gotta make moves in 2009/10. Detroit deserves more than this.

Sam Cassell is available now… Hmm?

“I’m talking to you Sheed. Nice play to show up at Curry’s presser. You actually had us going for awhile. Too bad it took 55 games to figure out you’re alot more talk than walk.”

Thank you, MarkButter.

“I realize what Sheed brings for us, a premiere defender, a monster on the blocks, and a guy who can stretch the court. I love Sheed for what he brought that helped us win in 04. But he’s the most vocal guy and it seems like when discontentment hits him (as it always does) it quickly spreads. Everyone seems to look up to him. We’ve got to get him (and AI, of course) out of the locker room. As much as I’d hate to see him go and would hate seeing him wearing a different jersey, we’re going to keep going through coaches.”

And thank you, Shinons.

I think Tay will step up as a leader once Sheed is gone. I remember Tay losing it on Sheed once when he got a tech in a crucial playoff game. And I remember him coaching Dwight Howard from the sidelines in the Olympics.

He has it in him to be a leader. I’m sure he’ll become that once the $12mil/year tech machine is gone.

McCosky’s article is pretty good today, too. It kind of takes a different angle on things, chemistry-wise.

My friend and I were talking about possible ways to salvage the season— after all thats gone wrong and the bad juju we’ve kicked up (cutting loose a 200+ win coach, packing up CBillz, benching a Deetroit Basketbawl guy like Rip in favor of Allen Iverson) we had some ideas about ways to level our karmar… and there were certain moves before the trade deadline (some way aquiring chucky atkins), but now that that is behind us, we have only option.

The right thing to do: buy out McDyess and let him go to Boston. After he wins the title there, let him retire. Hang his number up in the rafters at the Garden, the Palace, the Pepsi Center…

McDyess… I’m sorry man… 2005 should’ve been our year… I’m so sorry…

@Keegan:
yeah, McCosky’s new article is a good one.
here it is, for everyone to check out:
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090224/SPORTS0102/902240360/1127

Drew Sharp is a miserable SOB, but he nailed it with this article. http://www.freep.com/article/20090224/COL08/902240321/1051/rss16

The Pistons we once knew are dead. Hopefully they can rebuild in to something good once again.

Drew Sharp is terrible; he’s a wanna-be Mariotti/Hayes/Adande.

Well, I think the title says it all. But I go back to MC (and Joe D) in that when the trade was made, it was made to get cap room but just as much so to get Stuck minutes. AI should have been told he would be the 6th man, we weren’t going to change who we were/are (D, D and then some more D came first) and your job is to fit in because were not changing for you.

He should have been told he was here to help us win a chip, not lead us to a chip because that’s past him now. If he didn’t like playing D he’d better get some more padding in his ass. I think this problem chemistry wise started with the blown off practice after turkey day. He doesn’t start the following nite and sits for only 6 minutes? And they go about chaning the entire idea of this team to gimmicky small ball because of him. C’mon. Right then and there I think Curry lost any respect he had from the team. We’ve all been on teams that had a player like that or in an office environment where “equality” is preached and if you don’t seize upon the opportunity to drive it home the first time it presents itself, you’re hosed because everyone know’s you’re just BS-ing.

I guess an easier way to look at it: If each of those guys who showed up for practice that day, incl’g trainers and assistants would have known that they’d sit only the first 6 minutes of the following game in exchange for sleeping in and having lunch with family during the holidays, I’m pretty sure some would have taken advantage. The fact that AI felt he could come to a chip contender and pull that crap is on MC and Joe D. They should have suspended him for a game, minimum. Particularly about MC’s BS presser about holding everyone accountable.

Let’s see: I sleep in and have a family meal or I don’t play for 6 minutes? And I’ve already made a close to 100M? I’m not resigning with this team next year? Hmmm? What kind of “leader” do I want to be?

And I can’t believe I only sat 6 minutes for blowing off practice. That’s your fault Micheal “Everyone will be held accountable” Curry.

Sharp’s one or two sentence paragraphs are annoying. Also, he’s wrong that losing Ben Wallace meant that the Pistons lost their defensive intensity. There was basically no drop off in defensive efficiency. Of course, he gets paid to write that crap. I’m just an anonymous Internet blog-reader, so what do I know?

McCosky’s article is a good read, though.

Chemistry, emotion, trust, playing together as a team … all cliches in a way, but probably more important to the Pistons of this era then almost any other elite NBA team. Again, the Pistons never had that superstar the team was built around — Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron. They had to play together as a team.

On offense, Detroit couldn’t just toss it in to a monster post player, or give it to a guy who could consistently create his own shot off the dribble even when defenses were geared to stop him. They had to run plays. That takes time, effort, and patience.

On defense, if players don’t make the right rotations, it doesn’t matter if you have a number of good “on-ball” defenders. That takes time, effort, and patience too.

For whatever reason — and obviously, it’s a bunch of reasons — Detroit doesn’t do that any more. So, we have a leaderless team with no true superstar, the whole now being LESS than the sum of its parts, as opposed to the whole being more than the sum of its parts, as it was for the last several years. Sad.

I read both those articles… there’s very few “transitions” that a team doesn’t dip below .500. Look at SA. Since the 89-90 season they’ve only had 1 sub-.500 season… and in that season they went 20-62. If you’re gonna tank… TANK HARD!! Next year might be the season to bite the bullet, because I doubt you can get a Tim Duncan type player with the 14th or 15th pick in the draft.

Still, that’s an anomaly. I’m hoping that this “transition” was gonna be like ripping off a band-aid, but it’s more like sitting in your car with the engine running. Long, slow, and a headache the whole time.

I know that the Piston’s remained among the best in defensive efficiency after Ben left, but I’d have to agree with Sharp (ugh) that his defection hurt the Piston’s defense in ways the stats can’t show. He was that intimidating presence who made guys think twice about driving to the basket. Ben could erase mistakes made by his teammates if they let their man get by them. The problem wasn’t that they let him go, Chicago gave him an insane contract, but rather that they couldn’t find someone to provide that presence again. Wouldn’t having a guy who can erase mistakes be nice now, with Stucky and Iverson’s matador defense?

I still think Sharp is a prick, but I have to agree with him (again, ugh) that losing Ben hurt Detroit more than the numbers show.

There is a big Champions League soccer game today, Inter Milan v. Manchester United (on now on ESPN2) and here is what the Inter manager Jose Mourinho said:

“It doesn’t matter how many of my team could get into theirs,” Mourinho said, "because my team is more than the sum of the parts. Players don’t play individually. It’s team play and United is not better than my team. United is not better than us. We will beat them.

That’s what used to be great about the old Pistons, the team played as a team greater than the sum of it’s parts. It’s not true anymore and that’s on the coach.

And notice the “my team” phrasing from Mourinho. Great managers don’t give themselves excuses by separating their own performance from the performance of the team. If Michael Curry is coaching a team that lacks effort and leadership, then his coaching is failing. There are no excuses.

Well tonight’s a big game, that’s for damn sure. If these guys can’t get up for this game to stay above .500, against a startlingly lackluster Heat team, I’ll snap like Sauce. They got some decent youth, but it isn’t getting them anywhere this year.

If we lose, we lose, but if we’re a train-wreck like Sunday, that’ll be tough to take.

“The problem wasn’t that they let (Ben Wallace) go, Chicago gave him an insane contract, but rather that they couldn’t find someone to provide that presence again.”

MUCH easier said than done.

Even Tyson Chandler makes $11m/yr. So does sad Sam Dalembert. Finding quality defensive bigs on the semi-cheap is a bit like playing lotto.

Frankly, Detroit should have bit the bullet and kept Ben Wallace. You’d be overpaying him by $10m over the life of the contract, but you do what you have to do. To keep a championship level core together almost always means paying some luxury tax. Boston is a taxpayer. So is LA. So is Cleveland. So is Dallas. So is Portland. So is Phoenix. So is Houston.

San Antonio is the exception, mainly because they get to combine their defensive stopper and their main offensive threat into one single max contract. Plus they’ve been EXCEPTIONALLY smart and lucky.

Detroit had a championship core and they broke it up because they didn’t want to pay $5 – $10m in tax per year to field an elite team.

Your owner is a billionaire, and despite all of the good things he’s brought Detroit over the years, this one is still on him for not ponying up to win titles.

Posted: 2/24/2009 3:46:00 AM
Source: Michael Wallace of the Miami Herald

Not only does accountability begin at home for Heat center Jermaine O’Neal, but it also begins the moment he leaves the court after a bad game.

O’Neal, who said he apologized to teammates after a subpar outing in Sunday’s loss at Orlando, vowed to atone Tuesday against Detroit.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20090224#STORY_16662

joe-cubed: You’re right. There are no excuses when lack of hustle and what appears to be lack of preparation or game plan continually show themselves.

Petey: Billionaires don’t become billionaires because they are in love with themselves or for that matter basketball or any professional sport.

Mr. D is a business person first, basketball owner second. Would he pay 10M tax to have more trophies? 05 & 06 with the core didn’t get it done. Of all the teams you list, no one has won a chip in the last 5 years, save Boston. All were competitive just like the pistons the last 5 years. And of those, only one has gotten to a final the last 5 years, Dallas. And it would appear based on the trading deadline, Mr. Cuban is pulling it in a bit.

Your owner is a billionaire, and despite all of the good things he’s brought Detroit over the years, this one is still on him for not ponying up to win titles.>>

======
Davidson’s largest asset by far is Guardian. Rumor has it that with all of the problems in the auto industry in America that Guardian is hurting big time.

Davidson’s has probably loss hundreds of millions over the last year due to auto industry collapse in America.

It wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t use most of the cap space that will be created this summer.

If if the Pistons put on the winning team on the court next year most likely because of the economy which is only going to get worse, the Pistons wouldn’t come close to selling out and peripheral sales of Pistons products etc will continue to off significantly.

For some reason it is always very easy to blame another person for not spending money if the blamer thinks that that person has some.

@Petey:
Frankly, Detroit should have bit the bullet and kept Ben Wallace. You’d be overpaying him by $10m over the life of the contract, but you do what you have to do.

But he certainly wasn’t worth the contract he was given. Paying $60 million for 1/2 of what Ben Wallace was in 2004 is just foolish. If DET had given Wallace that Chicago money, it would have been a risk to re-signing Chauncey the following year. Dumars was wise to see that Ben Wallace was becoming a weak link, the first whose skill set was beginning to decline.

Regarding the argument that one of the tires fell off when we didn’t re-sign Ben Wallace— if we had kept Ben Wallace, we would have lost a tire anyway.

To keep a championship level core together almost always means paying some luxury tax.

Detroit would not have been a championship-level team last season had Ben Wallace started in a Pistons uniform.

this one is still on him for not ponying up to win titles.

Again, Ben Wallace would not have gotten Detroit another title.

@Joe*3
Totally agree re:good coaches including themselves when talking about their teams. It still boggles my mind that Curry can get away with basically laying all the blame at the players feet, and has absolutely no stomach for looking at himself as part of the problem. That is how a coach loses the respect of the team; if the players see the coach as part of the problem, but the coach is unwilling to acknowledge his own responsibility and instead just lays the blame on the player, it’s pretty natural for the players to see the coach as a coward.

Another good example of a coach ‘man-ing up’ is D’Antoni telling the press that it was his fault the Knicks players didn’t know they had a foul to give, when B Roy beat them at the buzzer. D’Antoni said he knew if he didn’t come forward and take responsibility and had just let the players take the blame, that it would have seriously damaged his credibility in the locker room.

“Davidson’s has probably loss hundreds of millions over the last year due to auto industry collapse in America … For some reason it is always very easy to blame another person for not spending money if the blamer thinks that that person has some.”

My point is very simple:

Under the current CBA, if you want to field a championship level NBA team, you either need to be willing to pay some tax or you need to have Tim Duncan.

New Orleans is not going to field a championship team around CP3 because they don’t want to pay tax. Detroit broke up the band when there were still titles to be won because they didn’t want to pay tax.

And unless your role is just keeping a major league team in a city that can’t really support it (as George Shinn is doing in New Orleans), you should be willing to pony up the relatively few extra marginal dollars to pay tax if you have a core that can win titles. Dunno the details of Davidson’s downside exposure, but if one accepts the “billionaire” label, he should have been able to throw the extra $20m – $40m out there over four years to field a championship level team.

Folks don’t/shouldn’t own a major league team just “as a business”.

@Petey:
please go back to http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/

Folks don’t/shouldn’t own a major league team just "as a business".

But folks do, that’s reality. At the end of the day, you’ve got a trophy or two and a banner hanging from the rafters, but a red bottom line.

Under that scenario, owners would sell their team after X amount of championships. Nobody buys a professional sports team and then goes out and builds wealth in other industries. One builds wealth in other industries and THEN buys professional sports teams.

And at the end of the day, 10 teams pay the luxury tax and only one wins. Take a tweaked ankle or bad call here or there and what do you have to show for it after 5-6 years and 50M in the red?

@Mark Butter:
Well said!

@Gabe:
I lol’d.

/oneamericacommittee’d

I’m sure Davidson has made lots of $$$ owning the Pistons over the years. The question is whether he has confidence in carrying a loss in the short term because it’s in the interests of the team in the long term, not whether he is ‘hurting’ because of the downturn. Hurting relative to 2005…maybe. Hurting in any real sense of the word, no way. I think the Pistons are the 4th most valuable team in the NBA, they have one of the best building situations, and still have very high attendance.

That said, I’m sure his auto companies are hurting because auto sales are shrinking.

Detroit would not have been a championship-level team last season had Ben Wallace started in a Pistons uniform.

this one is still on him for not ponying up to win titles.

Again, Ben Wallace would not have gotten Detroit another title.

^This

And it’s not like we didn’t try, he signed with Chicago for what, $3 million more?

joe-cubed: Define $$$. And the only way Mr. Davidson makes any money by owning the 4th most valuable franchise is to sell it. Then you have an owner having just paid fair market value which means he has less leeway for any financial losses on said investment.

I hate MC’s rotations, his lack of leadership, and mostly, how unprepared the Pistons look on both sides of the floor, night-in and night-out.

But what I hate even more: the way the players have already packed it in — with the exception of AI, Dice, and Max (and Hermann… but not sure he really counts, as rarely as he plays). Apart from the three guys I mentioned, it’s hard to tell if anyone really cares about this ’recession turned great depression."

Tay and Rip look like they’re out to prove that trading their best buddy was a mistake, and if it means leaving AI out to dry, then so be it.

Sheed looks like he’s playing for a contract next season by demonstrating to the world how good he can shoot for a big man, while managing to play just enough D to not look over the hill.

Stuckey looks bewildered. You can tell he wants to take the reigns, but he’s intimidated — after all, you can’t tell players who’ve won a championship what to do (just ask Flip Saunders).

On the flip side:

Dice plays with as much energy as his 34-year-old body can produce, every minute of every game.

AI plays hard, too, and I know I’ll get flack for saying so. But, I still think it’s true. His defense isn’t good, but he at least tries to make plays. He runs the floor hard, pushes the ball, and does try to create shots for himself and his teammates.

Max is a beast who makes his mark on every game he plays in, regardless of his statistics. Plus, when he does play 25 minutes, he fills the stat sheet nicely for a back-up PF.

===

To close this rant with a succinct point: this mess is as much a player problem as a coaching problem, because the players have quit on their coach, and ultimately on each other, and quitting on your peers and your boss is unacceptable for any professional in any profession, including sports.

I remember when I was watching the Lakers – Hornets game last week Hubie Brown made an absolute point: That the pistons overestimated their bench. Which really makes sense. Weak bench + early season trade + incompetent coach. What do you expect?

MarkButter in SoCal – I know an NBA franchise isn’t all that liquid but holding the asset gives Davidson access to credit that he wouldn’t otherwise enjoy. Davidson’s $6 million dollar investment 35 years ago led to a franchise value of $429 million dollars in 2007. You don’t have to sell 100% of the franchise to take out value. Davidson could take a 5% or 10% partner and cash out $20-40 million overnight and still control the team. There are more options than own or not own.

I guess my point is I don’t see Davidson changing the way he runs the Pistons and cutting salary just to improve the bottom line. I predict the ‘10-11 Pistons will come in just under the new luxury tax threshold which would still involve spending huge money on new players. Maybe the payroll is a bit reduced in ’09 because of the a desire to hold out for some ’10 free agents but that’s both a business and basketball decision. If you predict hard times for every NBA team over the next few years, the Pistons should do relatively better, not worse, because of the strong fundamentals of the franchise.

Petey:

If the 2006-07 Ben or 2007-08 Ben was predicatably going to be even 90% as good as the 2003-04 Ben, it might have been worth the luxury tax (although as Pistons fans know, there were already some tensions between Flip/Chauncey and Ben at that point).

But there was every indication Ben was already in serious decline and that decline was going to get worse. And in fact, serious decline was exactly what happened — and with teams that relied on Ben less/played him fewer minutes.

Look, I, like all Pistons fans, loved Ben and was sorry to see him go. For his sake, I’m glad he’s proving to be a useful piece in LeBron’s supporting cast. But what in Ben’s actual performance last year or two years ago, makes you think he could have been the difference for Detroit, two years ago, last year or this year? If you answer, please deal with the fact that Ben even at his best can’t shoot to save his life.

The obvious answer of what went wrong after the championship year is Detroit never had a decent bench. The championship team had Mehmet Okur, Mike James, a still-frisky Lindsey Hunter, and an effective post-scoring backup SF in Corliss Williamson. Throw in serviceable Elden Campbell to bang with Shaq, and you had a bench 5 that could have been competitive with many NBA starting teams, and one that just killed the second units of most other teams.

After that year, Detroit had one of the least productive benches in the league. Okur, James, and Williamson all left, Lindsey got older, Darko never developed, late draft picks didn’t produce anything, the backup SF position has been a disaster (Darvin Ham – Carlos Delfino). So, starters played too many minutes, etc.

Gabe,

Those of us who vist yglesias’ blog almost as much as DBB don’t appreciate you sending him back there. Seriously, I can’t escape the douchitude.

brgulker – I don’t think lacking direction is the same thing as quitting. When you have 5 guys pulling in 5 different directions it looks a lot like quitting when in fact it’s just counterproductive effort.

‘Sheed has been alternately praised and slammed for taking ill-advised 3-pt shots from his coach. Let’s assume ’Sheed could double his effort. In what aspect of the game should he double the effort? If Stuckey played harder would it involve more drives to the hoop or more effort distributing the ball? Is effort for Maxiell trying to block every shot or trying to improve his straight up defending?

I like pretty much all the Pistons players but don’t think they know what direction to row the boat. Some players are rowing furiously, some not so much, but without everyone knowing what direction the boat is supposed to head, the ‘effort’ question is on the coach.

If Chef Sandwich tells 5 kitchen prep guys to ‘make a delicious sandwich’ and those 5 people make two PBJ, two ham & cheese, and a meatball sub — that’s expected. If later Chef Sandwich says he’s disappointed that Team Kitchen Prep didn’t communicate better and that they didn’t trust each other and that there was no sense of purpose Team Kitchen Prep would be right to say ‘Just tell us EXACTLY what kind of sandwich to make next time! Delicious sandwich is vague!’.

Curry telling the team to play ‘winning basketball’ and then criticizing them for losing is like telling the team to make a ‘delicious sandwich’ and criticizing ‘Sheed for giving him PBJ when he wanted meatball. Curry has asked for every kind of sandwich under the sun and no longer has credibility. If ’Sheed says ’I know you ordered meatball but my PBJ is delicious!’ then you bench his ass, hold him accountable, and put in Maxiell, even if you know damn well Maxiell can’t make sandwichs as well as Rasheed.

I guess what I’m saying is this team has fried my brain and I’m talking about sandwiches.

“I can’t escape the douchitude”

Why does this sum up this season so well?

Joe-cubed: Understood better now. but, if the pistons are scheduled to go over the cap and thus make “less” money, that “less” will come from a premium from the buyer of 10% of franchise.

I’m sure Davidson has leveraged the value of the pistons in other business ventures. But don’t forget how mediocore we were for a large part of the 90’s and early 00’s. Just good enough to get in the playoffs, not bad enough to get a good lottery pick.

I think Ben Wallace left partly because the team’s off-court
 activities conflicted with his moral alignment.

 He also left because Scott Skiles for some reason was more
 likeable to him than Flip Saunders.

 The 3 million or whatever final number it ended up as, was a
 small thing to him, I believe.

 You can’t dwell on that though. You gotta draft and sign and
 trade with Defense in mind, and you need a coach worthy of the
 talent in front of him.

Doesn’t sound like Petey is very welcome over at ThinkProgresss either. This is from a comment thread on healthcare reform:

strasmangelo jones Says:
February 24th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

“That pop you hear is the sound of several veins in Petey’s forehead.”

In this as in most things, Petey is utterly clueless.

“I think Ben Wallace left partly because the team’s off-court activities conflicted with his moral alignment.”

Can you elaborate?

Petey nails it. It’s always been about business first. The truth is the core was broken up way before Billups was moved. This team ceased to be a contender when Larry Brown left and that’s on Bill Davidson. It had a chance to keep arguably the beating heart of its on-court ethic and it passed due to $$$ and that’s on Joe D.

@Gabe: go back to http://www.freerepublic.com/

PS. Skylar, you are on crack. Get help.

doh, my bad Colin :)

@Joe*3:
Totally agreed with you again, and I like the anecdote. A lot of things come back to Curry just not having a practical knowledge of HOW to coach to get the results he wants. Before the season, he said he wanted us to score points in the paint, to rebound the ball and to get to the free throw line. But, he is/was totally unaware that those are OUTCOMES of a coaching strategy, they do not constitute a strategy in and of themselves.

Basically Curry’s “philosophy” as a coach is: Play Good. Then, if that doesn’t work, his back up strategy is: Play Good-er. IT’S SO SIMPLE!!1 No wonder he blames the players when things go badly, how could anyone mess up instructions that straight-forward?

joejoejoe: Looks like Mourinho didn’t know what he was talking about today though, hehe. I guess Inter better do a superior job in their effort to “play as a team” at Old Trafford. Can’t argue with the dude’s success as a manager, but he kinda pulled a retarded Guaransheed today.

I wish I hadn’t wasted my $$ on NBA League Pass this year. I am down on this team; confused as to the solution and just soured on the Chauncey trade.

Hope things get better before they get worse. I would hate to see them breakout the Teal.

Q Dog

Leave it to Petey to argue in favor of fiscal irresponsibility.

Gabe,

No worries, I generally avoid the comments sections of political blogs anyways. I do think it’s hilarious, though, that he’s a pariah over there as well.

@g: go back to http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/

@Colin: I posted this a few days ago, not sure if you saw it:
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/02/quantifying_shane_battier.php#comment-1103511

I got a kick out of knowing that Petey’s support of an AI/AA backcourt is not limited to just basketball blogs, but that he takes the argument uptown to the political blogosphere as well :) When Petey’s grandmother calls to ask how he’s doing, does most of their conversation consist of wistfully imagining the effectiveness of an AI and Afflalo backcourt?

If anyone finds a working linke for tonight’s game, I’d appreciate it!

Gabe,

I definitely did. I Lmao. I bet his grandma tells him he’s being an intellectually dishonest turd, too.

I had actually noticed him on there a couple weeks before, but the post wasn’t in regards to basketball so I wasn’t 100% sure. The combo of the name and arrogant style were dead giveaways though.

@Gabe:
When Petey’s grandmother calls to ask how he’s doing, does most of their conversation consist of wistfully imagining the effectiveness of an AI and Afflalo backcourt?

No, he just tells her that her baking prize from a few years back was a black swan event, that she doesn’t understand the value of peanut butter chocolate chips (which she has used for years before he came along) and that his favorite ingredient, human poo, just isn’t being used right in her baking to really make it win a prize again.

MP:

Wow, just wow.

“Grandma, I love you, but you have absolutely no clue how to bake a cake.”
-Petey

why are sheed and dyess playing so many minutes? why is amir not given time to develop or at least fail once and for all? does herman have value? affalo and max? if you are going to lose 3/4 of your games at least learn something about your personel. grinding sheed and dyess is retarded.
    the leadership has failed the team. the leader is the coach…or maybe the g.m.
        dyess was stupid not to go to denver.

joejoejoe,

Re: the sandwiches.

Exactly. The way I picture it, given that I’m a teacher, is that Curry was a great, middle-of-the-road English student in high school or college. He didn’t have the natural, blinding intelligence or writing ability or reading clarity of another person, but he busted his butt with every book and every paper. Sought extra help when he needed it. Revised and revised everything until it was pretty damn okay.

Given his success, he figured, “Great. I can teach.” So, he walked into a classroom, found a bunch of students, and said, “Alright. Here’s the deal: I want you guys to write a really good paper on (x) topic. And, again, I want it to be good.”

So, each guy wrote a paper. And they weren’t that good. (And each one wasn’t good in its own way, too). So, Curry said, “No. No. See, here’s the thing: I want the papers to be good. So write them so that they’re good. Make them so they’re good.”

Same result.

So, Curry says, “No. See, good writing involves organization and structure and clarity and voice. Write the next paper better, okay? Make it good, like something that could get published.”

Etc.

Then he goes to the teacher’s lounge and complains about how students these days just can’t write and he’s teaching them every day and giving them tons of work, but, they just can’t write. Not his fault. It’s the kids these days.

“The combo of the name and arrogant style were dead giveaways though.”

I’ve been The Smartest Lefty In The Room™ at Yglesias’ site since 2003.

g- Shut up dummy. Shit is real. The rift between Saunders
 and Wallace has nothing to do with crack. Ben Wallace was the
 first guy Flip lost. Most people know Ben wanted more touches.

 Colin- I don’t really wanna smear the guys on their own forum,
 but it’s guaranteed that Ben had a moral opposition to what went
 on sometimes, off court.

 I think all those things collabo’ed and he made the move to the
 (312). Like I said, that 3 million was only one factor of
 several. He lost sponsorship money by moving from Detroit and
 was easily the most popular Piston and maybe Detroit sports
 figure overall back then.

AI was talking to the press after the game last night about why the Pistons keep losing is because we can’t stop anybody on Defense. He is right, but the problem starts with him. He can’t guard ANYBODY!. He is too small to guard players like Wade and not strong enough for the Likes of Baron Davis. Second Rodney Stuckey’s Defense is shit. It seems the rest of the teams has gotten tired of making up for there short comings and genius coach Curry decides not to play the only guy that can guard D Wade on the team(Affalo). Michhael Curry sucks and I have been questioning Joe Dumars long before this move and this latest move with Iverson just affirms it that Joe needs to Go…

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/02/antonio_mcdyess_could_leave_pi.html
Can’t say I’d blame you for leaving, Antonio. You deserve a chance to go get a ring. Seeing you in a Cavs or Celtics uniform would still make me want to throw up though.