Rip Hamilton draws a line in the sand

We knew this was coming. I called it a few weeks ago and said that Stuckey would head back to the bench, if only because it’s the easiest way for Curry to deal with Iverson and Hamilton’s egos, even if it won’t help out the team one bit. Let’s see if Curry sticks to his guns or goes against his word (like he has SO MANY TIMES this season) and benches Stuckey.

I said before and i"ll say it again AI needs to come off the bench and rip should start for the simple reason the pistons always disappear in the forth quarter Rasheed for all his talent never shows up in the fourth quater, we need AI in the forth quarter because after chasing Rip around for 3 quarters most teams don’t have the stamina to chase a fresh AI just turn him lose I cannot see why the pistons can’t see that! then Stuckey can continue to grow as a point guard and Rip can start and AI can do what he does best..
Check the box scores Tay and Dice are out rebounding and out scoring Rasheed, If Sheed is hurt maybe it would be best to have him come off the bench also behind Mad Max Just think about that.

good to see mcdyess get the playing time he needs to develop. curry can not afford to waste any minutes on amir during this crucial series of games. affalo too. curry should keep both of those guys on the bench.

maybe curry could get mcdyess into the rotation. i see he only got like 38 minutes against the hornets. that would help.

Good lord the wheels are coming off. Rip going PUBLIC with that now makes it harder for Curry to actually do. Meanwhile, the best thing for Winning Games Now might be to bench Stuckey, but that’s bad in the long term, and how important is it, really, to Win Games Now? Well, if you think “missing the playoffs” is a big deal, maybe.

Telenovela.

(I’ll ask again: who first used that word in November? I want to give props.)

Andy – McDyess is an old man, I don’t think he needs minutes to develop. LOL

Deeeeeeeeeetroit Baaaaaasketbaaaaaaaaall!
Ugh.

Quite frankly, this is all old news. Rip & Stuck should have been starting since the trade. Curry doesn’t have a clue.

As for Stuck’s struggles, perhaps if they had a set offense instead of Micheal WTF are we gonna do now Curry iso-offense, he’d be able to do something. Other than Rips tweaked groin injury, we haven’t had any major injuries and we are still trying to figure out what kind of offense we should have at the 60th game of the season?

MCIAFI

“Good lord the wheels are coming off.”

I must take issue with this, Toledo Joe. The wheels are NOT coming off. The wheels came off quite a while ago.

Just for fun, I’ll quote what I wrote here a bit more than a month ago:

But if the bad vibes around the squad don’t go away, the wheels could come off with some rapidity. And the bad vibes won’t go away unless players start getting comfortable about the nature of their roles, which I don’t think they are at the moment in any way, shape, or form.

A team where the old guys are all a year too old and the young guys are all a year too young is a coaching challenge. We’re going to see in the near future if there is a method to Curry’s madness or not.

I see no method at all, sir…

“Meanwhile, the best thing for Winning Games Now might be to bench Stuckey, but that’s bad in the long term”

Of course, the sad part is that Stuckey could have been developed quite nicely this year as the Third Guard behind Rip and AI. He could have played close to 30pmg, and been set up to find his way in the association, rather than being thrown to the wolves as The Next Chauncey.

We could have Won Games and developed Stuckey at the same time, had management been a bit saner about the big picture. (The cynic in me says Stuck was pushed forward more for marketing reasons than for basketball development reasons…)

FWIW, the Hornets game was actually a pretty entertaining ballgame. I don’t want to spoil the bad feeling we’ve all got, but with the exception of the Cavs game, our recent losses have all been fun to watch.

“The cynic in me says Stuck was pushed forward more for marketing reasons than for basketball development reasons…”
-Petey

Huh. The cynic in me says the same thing about AI…

In other interesting news, ESPN’s daily dime is contemplating whether the Pistons will just cut Sheed for the rest of the season. Maybe even AI? If the ship be sinking, the best way to keep it afloat is to chuck the unneccessary weight and plug the holes…

“In other interesting news, ESPN’s daily dime is contemplating whether the Pistons will just cut Sheed for the rest of the season. Maybe even AI?”

If the Pistons were to waive Roscoe and Chuck to allow them to sign with teams actually trying to, y’know, win basketball games, it would entirely restore my former respect for Joe Dumars…

@Glenn: Saw the ESPN article. I’d wait to at least Monday so he’d be past the date to sign with a contender. I didn’t see the rebound he didn’t get and the subsequent ejection. But was this just the usual Sheed getting out hustled?

If I’m Joe D. Imight not want to chuck Sheed so as to do a sign and trade. But I’d love for him to come up with the undeterminable ankle/leg soreness and sit him down for a couple of weeks. I don’t know how this would play in the locker room regarding “are we trying to win” mentality, but the longer term benefits of putting everyone on notice of exactly who is in charge would be worth it.

At the end of the day, Sheed was at MC’s presser because he’s more of a talker than a walker. And the way he’s been playing, he needs one.

4-12 since putting Rip on the bench??? Of course this has been repeated ad nauseum but I like how Curry will discuss, strategize, and execute any solution… as long as it’s not AI going to the bench.

@ Petey: waive them so they can sign with a contender. Ah, yeah. Let’s reward bad behavior? That’s the last thing that needs to be done.

Petey… I think that’s a great idea. The Pistons should cut AI. I’m all for it… maybe Cleveland will sign him and they’ll become a .500 team as well.

Did the Acker trade get the Pistons under the luxury tax?

I thought I read that it left them about $50k over. If thats the case it would be fitting to over AI a buyout of his salary minus that $50k to get us out of the tax. Wouldn’t AI on the Suns, Magic, or Rockets be compelling for everybody. He’d get his chance to go for a ring and those clubs would love to have some scoring added to the backcourts. I’m sure alot of teams would not want to mess with their chemistry (this current AI experiment being exhibit A) but it only takes one desperate team. Doing so would mean that Joe D would have to admit failure on AI but he saves some money and it lets any free agent know that there will be cap room this summer.

Warning: I know I sound crazy but deserate times call of desperate measures.

I heard that it got them under… even if it didn’t, we’re talking about paying an extra 50k. Davidson farts more than that in his sleep.

“Saw the ESPN article. I’d wait to at least Monday so he’d be past the date to sign with a contender”

Roscoe brings you guys a title, and you want to needlessly deny him the opportunity to ply his trade, MarkButter in SoCal? You’re more of a hater than Boney.

I’ve never quite understood the motivation for non-fans to watch the games, but it takes all kinds, which I guess is why god invented southern california…

FWIW, it’s never a smart idea to needless deny your players the opportunity to ply their trades. That’s why a smart guy like Donnie Walsh bought out Marbury, and it’s why a dumb guy like Larry Bird is needlessly screwing over Jamaal Tinsley.

Bird could GM in Indiana for two decades, and he’ll never again sign a free agent who had another viable option. The NBA is a very small town, and violations of the code are not forgotten.

@JesseC:
It got us under the tax- Sheed and Rip both had “likely bonuses” in their contracts that were counting against the cap- they would have gotten those if they made the all star team, but because they didn’t make it, we don’t have to pay them. :) there’s a silver lining to everything I guess (at least for Davidson’s pocket book)

“I heard that it got them under… even if it didn’t, we’re talking about paying an extra 50k”

Being $50k over the tax threshold actually costs you more than three million extra dollars. Please increase your CBA knowledge.

FWIW, the most reliable accounts I’ve read indicate the Pistons indeed got under the threshold with the Acker trade.

@Petey:
stop saying “ply.” they’re basketball players, not carpenters.

I copied this from HoopsHype site regarding article on Pistons. It sums up what I’m thinking nicely.

Flip Saunders was fired for two reasons. 1. He couldn’t take a championship caliber team over the hump to the championship. 2. He had lost command of the team. It seems unthinkable to me that you would hold Curry to a lesser standard. The Pistons, minus Billups, have the Same team that won 59 games last year, won over 50 games 5 years in a row with three different coaches, and have been to the conference finals seeminlgy every year. If the team was ‘washed up’, why fire Flip? He must have done an incredible job of getting a bunch of has beens to the second best record in the league. If they quit on Flip and still won 59 games, what have they done to Curry?

Gabe +1

Being over the tax would cost them $100k ($50 x2) PLUS the money that the teams over the tax pay to those under it. So it would have been atleast a couple of million.

“they’re basketball players, not carpenters.”

- Jesus was a carpenter.
- The messiah is actually LeBron James.
- LeBron is a basketball player.

Hence, all basketball players are carpenters.

I blame AI for everything. And I’m not even going to try to give any proof for my argument. This team coached itself to the ECF 3 straight years. I blame the midget.

@Petey

That is actually very sound deductive logic. You should do a Venn diagramm to further illustrate the point.

Petey: Reward bad behavior? Ply their trade? I thought he was suppose to bust his ass and ply his trade in Det. Guess the whole MC presser was exactly BS from Sheed. A better talker than walker.

And I think Larry is/did trying to trade Tinsley. You can’t cut him and not pay his salary. Given the team has given Tinsley MULTIPLE chances to pull his head out of his ass, so since he hasn’t we’re going to still pay him and cut him all in the name of “Gee, so he can ply his trade.”

Marbury: could have been done with the knicks in a heartbeat had he accepted a lower buyout. I guess making several million more after making MILLIONS was more important to Starbury than Plying his trade." Didn’t, so now it’s Walsh’s fault that he said, OK, sit your ass down. Bravo to Donny. Don’t give me the whole: ply trade shit. If Starbury wanted to “ply” his trade, he could have done so last Oct. Or perhaps he didn’t want to because from what I heard the chicks in the parking lot in the back seat of cars put out more than the Boston chicks do.

give dyess the minutes he deserves.

I’d like to quote something AI said (with a smirk) earlier in the season when people we’re questioning Detroit’s sputtering offense:

"That is us not making shots. We got a lot of good looks at the basket but we just didn’t knock the shots down. I don’t think offense is going to be our problem too much, so that’s a positive that we take out of this game. We could just never get it going offensively. I think as we get our chemistry together and some time to play together, guys will start hitting shots."

Hmmmm, could he be any more wrong?

Here’s a link(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PistonsForecast0809) to Hollinger’s preseason assessment of Detroit and how efficient Detroit’s offense has been over the previous season. Here’s a quote:

“Inevitably, Detroit has been misunderstood because of its slow pace. The Pistons have been viewed as a tough, defensive team for the past few years because they’re always among the top three teams in points allowed; conversely, their offense hasn’t been valued as highly because of its middling status in the league tables. But look at things on a per-possession basis, and the Pistons’ offense has been nearly as effective as the defense in the three seasons under Flip Saunders — a key difference between this Detroit era and the Larry Brown teams.”

and now we rank 22nd in offensive efficiency… see for yourself:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=offeff&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fteamstats%3fsort%3doffeff%26seasonType%3d2%26league%3dnba

I think buying out AI will improve our offensive efficiency(it can’t be much worse) AND improve our defensive efficiency. I want to thank Petey for coming up with that idea. Thanks Petey!!!

Don’t worry Andy, Dyess will get plenty of minutes over the next few games since Sheed went psycho on those towels and will likely be on time-out for a little while.

Wait, did you mean he should get fewer minutes? Cause Curry isn’t about to do something crazy like play Amir. He will develop just fine by sitting on the bench and getting garbage minutes when the Pistons get their asses kicked.

You guys are crazy if you think buyouts are coming. If we’re not firing curry, we’re standing pat for the rest of the season. There isn’t any money to be saved, and after next week, any player changing teams can’t make the playoff roster. The fastest way to empty the palace is to start dropping starters from the roster. And what? We buy out sheed and play dyse 48 minutes a game? The stones are under the lux line, partly from the trade of aker, but mostly from the bonuses that gabe mentioned. And petey, you’re way off base if you think the way bird handles tinsley translates into them not getting fa’s. Players that behave the way he has have been treated similarly in the past (t. thomas), and look where he’s playing now.

@ Petey: Didn’t see this in your postthe first time “I’ve never quite understood the motivation for non-fans to watch the games, but it takes all kinds, which I guess is why god invented southern california…”

Uh, yeah. To be honest with ya and to quote B. Knight “I’ve forgotten more about this game than you’ll ever know.”

Trust me on that one.

FWIW, it’s never a smart idea to needless deny your players the opportunity to ply their trades. That’s why a smart guy like Donnie Walsh bought out Marbury, and it’s why a dumb guy like Larry Bird is needlessly screwing over Jamaal Tinsley.

Bird could GM in Indiana for two decades, and he’ll never again sign a free agent who had another viable option. The NBA is a very small town, and violations of the code are not forgotten.

Holy shit, out of all the stupid stuff Petey has ever said, this is my new favorite.

@Shinons: My favorite will always be: “Dwight Howard is a very one dimensional player.”

Sheed will be in uniform on Friday.

From the Freep: NBA vice president of basketball communications Tim Frank said in an e-mail this morning that technicals received on Dec. 23 and Feb. 7 were rescinded.

AI experiment is ovah, lets focus on locking up a playoff spot. Please!

Q Dog

Given the team has given Tinsley MULTIPLE chances to pull his head out of his ass, so since he hasn’t we’re going to still pay him and cut him all in the name of "Gee, so he can ply his trade."

My favorite was when Tinsley got into another fight at a seedy club which culminated in Tinsley’s brother shooting an assault rifle around Monument Circle.

Look out Pacers! Next time a free agent considers signing with you, it’ll be, “Well, if I run into the stands and start swinging, beat and threaten to kill the owner of a country-western line dancing bar, get into a fight with a handicapped guy at a seedy strip club, shoot up downtown tourist attractions, miss more than half of my games with injuries after signing a contract for more than I’m worth, then I might get benched. No way I’m going there! Despite all of the luxuries and attractions that might draw me to Indianapolis, I will resist the urge because Larry Bird will bench me if I am arrested too many times! Take that Indiana, you giant disconnected metropolitan – maybe you will one day understand what it’s like to live in a small town like the NBA!”

So it would take buying out an overrated “All Star” for Petey to once again respect Joe Dumars?

Wow…

If he’d take getting cut for no money, I’d do it in a fucking heartbeat… why should the team pay him to go play somewhere else

@Shinons: My favorite will always be: "Dwight Howard is a very one dimensional player."

Definitely a good choice. I remember that one. Everyone who’s not a SF is one-dimensional. I also liked his insistence that Carlos Boozer would be guaranteed a contract exceeding $100 million. But as far as quotes go, nothing can beat this one for me – the irony is just fantastic.

I don’t know, fellas— the one that Gabe pointed out above is pretty damn good…

I believe the solution to the problem was offered by many different people a long time ago- bench AI. I’m guessing he’s going to do to us what he did to Philly, and be “too injured to play” for the rest of the season anyway.

Rob, why would you be upset then, if he was too injured to play? From your standpoint, that seems like a win win.

Mike Payne,

It’s not AI’s fault, it’s the team’s fault. The team needs to stop taking out of control forced shots, the team needs to stop driving to the basket and throwing bounce passes at the feet of our big men and the team needs to stop thinking a one handed scoop shot high off the glass is a high percentage shot…

oh… my bad

My girlfriend, after my telling her the Pistons lost again, but in a contested game decided in the last couple of possessions:

“Oh, that’s good. Because they kind of got killed the other night. Do you think maybe one of them is sleeping with somebody’s wife?”

“…Maybe they just need more B-vitamins!”

THAT’S IT!!!!!!

Anyway: I’m with anyone who smacks their head every time Curry defends any starting rotation that doesn’t involve benching AI. It’s remarkable – that’s the one decision (other than sticking with Stuckey, which I think is actually wise) that he’s stuck by all year, the one decision that’s beyond question. Every signpost in the world points to this as being correct (or christ, at least worth a shot) and has since NOVEMBER. Good on Rip for calling him out, even if he is being unprofessional.

Here’s the problem with all this: rookie coach is one thing, but you have to look at fundamentals, their character and strength. No X’s and O’s? Fine, but you have to see progress, you have to have some kind of ability to adapt to the world and get better at your job. Joe D prides himself on plucking players with great fundamentals but bad execution, but Curry (as a coach) is the opposite, and you don’t need 1-2 full seasons to see it. Curry’s stubbornness is not strength, it’s arrogance, and that won’t change, ever.

It’s not easy to be a coach under any circumstances, with the amount of high-profile second guessing, the sheer number of variables to manage, the fact that the guys you coach are prima donnas that make more than you do, etc, etc. The only weapon you have against that is sheer moxie – a my-way-or-the-high-way, uncompromising, risk-taking approach that makes the outcome of games yours. There are no sacred cows: Bench Iverson. Cut Sheed for Maxiel a couple of games. Invade Iraq. Nationalize the banks. Have fun with it. But have a plan, have what in the real world is a moral code, and take responsibility for the outcome. That’s leadership, that’s what gets you respect, that’s how you create camaraderie – an “us against the world” mentality that puts everyone on notice that you’re the craziest coach in the NBA and you don’t give a sh*t. But don’t just stick to a decision because you made it. That’s weakness, and it can’t be fixed.

:) Shinons, that breakdown of Tinsley = wins. a lot of them.

I can’t decide exactly what Petey reminds me of more; he’s like a strange cross between a bratty teenage girl (“Gawd Mom! You’re such an idiot! You don’t understand anything, do you? You’re like, like, totally, like you don’t understand what it’s like, OMG!”) and a snotty college freshman who still hasn’t declared a major and tries to impress girls by sounding smart and critiquing what the professors say (“Wasn’t it absurd how Professor Williams tried to explain the enlightenment period through the lens of urban awakening?? Seriously, talk about out dated theories… And how clueless is he for not making the logical connection to the rise of sugar production in the Caribbean? Yeah, I definitely might drop the class, wait, stop, don’t walk away! Wait! What’s your name again? Hello? Hey! Stop running away from me!”).

@Gabe:
wait, stop, don’t walk away! Wait! What’s your name again? Hello? Hey! Stop running away from me!

But as Petey said yesterday, “I have a similar style of appeal to women that George Clooney does.”
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2009-02-24/pistons-heat-game-thread-2/#comment-170273

My thoughts:

- Flip was judged on what he did in the post-season. As much as we’ve all lost confidence in Curry. He deserves a full season and (if they make it) post-season.

- I would love to see Sheed get bought out and start the post-Sheed era. I like AI, but would mind seeing him bought out too. But, I don’t think Pistons fans as a whole would take to throwing in the towel. It would probably kill the already declining ticket sales.

- The one ballsy thing that Curry did was to start Stuckey. Not many coaches out there would have done that. But, looks like the Stuck needs to sit for a spell.

haha…. “he said throwing in the towel”

after watching the video I am glad that atleast the ball boy seemed to enjoy sheed’s disgust

How come AI is poisoning the team and an AI fan is poisoning DBB? Can we bench Petey?

@MP: Heh, oh yeah, I forgot about that little gem… Actually, I think I blocked it out of my memory. That was probably Petey’s weirdest moment- I think my mind wasn’t really ready to grapple with that level of crazy.

Beyond what happens on the court, Rip has a long-standing relationship with Rasheed, McDyess, Tayshaun, Maxiell and others. I’d be willing to wager that Rip wouldn’t draw this proverbial line in the sand if he didn’t have the private support of his teammates. Its likely that Rip has heard complaints from these guys about the current lineup, about the losses, and about AI’s style of play not fitting in as well as Rip’s. While I know of no evidence to support this, here’s what I’m reading between the lines:

These comments show Rip Hamilton as a mouthpiece for team-wide discontent about AI in the starting lineup. Would Rip really put his neck on the line with a comment like that if he didn’t feel the original core would support him?

While these comments are selfish in nature, if the above is true it is a captain-worthy move.

I agree Gabe. Then whenever he gets himself in over his head by saying too many indefensibly idiotic things, he scampers away.

Belated +100 MP. Very nicely played on the Clooney bit.

========

BTW, do we know for sure if Sheed’s Towel Throw (a la the Bush Shoe Throw) was directed at the ref or MC? If it were at MC, wouldn’t that warrant at least a team suspension?

Well, we agree. Bench AI. As everyone said that’s been the move since Nov. As for benching Stuck, I’d play the kid. He’s struggling and the last thing we need the next time he hits a patch like this is to be looking over his shoulder. And the problem with Sheed and AI is what Stuck sees but being a younging, what’s he gonna say?

As for AI and Stuck, it’s kinda like Mia with Wade. Mia is never going to have a talent like Stuck at PG with Wade because Wade needs the ball in his hands like AI. Maybe a Kidd type with Wade who is more of a facilitator first PG, I could see a high profile PG like that with Wade. Icouldn’t see a CP# in mia but a steve blake (again) kinda guy.

But the fact is, you can’t be a PG who will lead and direct the team if you don’t have the ball in your hands the vast majority of the time. There’s a reason the traditional roles are called PG & SG. That’s why I’m not too concerned with Stuck’s slump.

I also think this is a good learning experience no matter how much the pain is for the pistons. Amir/Max and to a certain extent Tay have been on 50-60 win teams since they came to Det. I look at the glass half full and I think we’ll see what kind of character these guys have come summer and their workouts. For the first time in 5 years, we’ll be done playing before May (God I hate saying that) though I don’t want to believe it an am fighting not to.

MP – self-serving as his motivations may be, can you really blame Rip for voicing his displeasure? He’s gotten screwed this year. Signed to three year deal only to have buddy traded next day. Asked to play out of position at the three. Then benched while the team implodes. I honestly can’t say I have any problem with what he did; I’d probably do the same thing (in whatever the analogue is to office politics).

Forty: I thought Rip signed after the trade.

I agree with Forty – no problem with Rip speaking out whatsoever. It may not end up helping himself in the end, for reasons that Matt pointed out in the original article. I hope that the picture MP paints is the way it’s actually playing out, and that after this season ends when AI and Sheed go their separate MLE ways and the team re-gels with a new coach. We’ll have to see how things play out.

If I remember correctly, they signed Rip to the extension and basically made the Iverson trade before the ink had even dried. At the time it looked like they had been waiting to secure Rip’s future with the team before doing something they knew would really piss him off.

All of the sudden actually caring about the outcome of games makes Sheed expendable? He may have dropped off a bit, but he’s still a Top 10 PF in the League. He won’t play with his back to the basker if he’s got a choice, but what the fuck is wrong with Curry or Stuckey actually calling a damn play that requires him to do it? He’s not going to break a play off and step behind the line to jack threes if you run 30 Blue and feed him the ball. Any shot he takes from behind the arc is a shot that comes because Curry’s offense allows it.

As to the techs last night: Who would have thought that ANY Piston cared enough at this point to actually get thrown out of a game? It was more fun to watch that last night than the last month of games combined. There’s bound to be some event that brings this team back together, why not a veteran showing some damn passion?

*basket

@Forty:
I’m behind Rip 100%, I don’t blame him at all. In fact, I’m glad he spoke up. He’s been pushed around more than any other Piston this season, and he’s still delivered. IMO, he’s been one of the few positive notes in an otherwise ugly season.

“That was probably Petey’s weirdest moment- I think my mind wasn’t really ready to grapple with that level of crazy.”

If that’s the case, I’d STRONGLY advise you not to watch any basketball games that Mike Curry coaches…

Handy list of all the free agents this off season and next:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10

There aren’t too many players that I’m in love with in 2009, but a few of the obvious and not obvious possibilities:
Boozer, Odom, Sessions, Lee, Millsap, (Artest, if he came cheap?), (Varejao?), Ben Gordon, Ariza, Josh Childress, etc…

I guess I’d try to grab Childress or Ariza for as little as possible (less then mid-level?), try to get either Millsap or Lee for 10m per year, then try to use the last bit to get Varejao and re-sign Sheed or Dice (hopefully for vet minimum).

Then you have this starting line-up and backups:

Stuck/Rip/Tay/Millsap or Lee/Sheed or Dice and back-ups:
Bynum/AA/Ariza or Childress/Max or Amir/ Varejao

Not a dominant team, but it’s a pretty solid core of young players.

PDX: If Sheed ain’t on the box, you’re right it’s MC’s fault. But let’s not get carried away. He’s never been a back to the basket all nite long kinda guy even when he was with Port/Wash in his younger days.

And given the fact he’s a top 10 PF, who guards 4 or 5’s, seems to me he’d have at least a season where he got 10 rebs a game, which I don’t think has ever happened. And he’s certainly had the opportunity in his career because of minutes. I mean, if Zach Randolph can be a 20-10 guy, there isn’t any reason in his career that Sheed couldn’t have been, and on a consistent basis.

As for the towel: he was pissed at the ref (I think, but didn’t see the incident) but from what I understand didn’t get a rebound and gave one up. Did he get out hustled and pull his famous “I got fouled so I didn’t do my job of (fill in the blank) boxing out.” Perhaps if he’d hang in and around the paint a bit more, he’d get some of those calls.

Rip has every right to bitch… I’m glad he said it. You know Rip could demand to get traded because Curry is an idiot… which brings up a point that was made a looooong time ago:

Why piss off a guy that’s been here forever, still is in his prime, and just signed a long term contract extension??? Instead, why not piss off the guy that’s johnny come lately, old, and will be out of Detroit in a year?

Curry makes no sense to me.

This might have been said already, but Sheed will play on Friday. Two of his techs were rescinded, so last night was #13 and #14.

I know Stuckey is in a slump right now but having Iverson and Rip starting (Iverson playing point and Rip playing the 2) would be a castastrophe waiting to happen. Hell, we even experienced this line-up earlier in the season with Tayshaun setting-up the plays and it stunk worst than this 8 game losing streak.

It’s either Iverson or Rip coming off the bench (and if you ask me, Iverson should be the one sitting) with Stuckey still starting.

It should be “experimented” not “experienced” btw.

Sit Iverson’s ass on the bench until he finds the need to play some real Defense. Stuckey’s Defense hasn’t been much better. Set his ass down too. Play Affalo or Bynum at the point and bring Amir back into the rotation maybe set Sheed ass for awhile too. Sheed has his head up his ass. Stuckey thinks he is an All Star who doesn’t need to play defense and Iverson is a pri-madonna. Set em all down!!1

Brad you nailed it. You know who else makes no sense. Joe Dumars….

@craig: I wouldn’t be upset at all if AI decided to shut down his season because of injury- it gives him the perfect out, and relieves MC of trying to make a decision. I said in one of my first posts on this blog that I have always been an AI fan, but what I should have said is, I’ve always been a fan of AI ON SOMEBODY ELSE’S TEAM. When this trade first happened, I tried to see sunshine and rainbows, and not the storm cloud that always follows AI. I gotta stop being so naive.

Turns out Wallace wont have to sit against the Magic

http://www.hoopsworld.com/TheWireStory.asp?id=17068

Start Afflalo or Bynum at the point?

wow

the revolt has started…

“I know Stuckey is in a slump right now but having Iverson and Rip starting (Iverson playing point and Rip playing the 2) would be a castastrophe waiting to happen. Hell, we even experienced this line-up earlier in the season with Tayshaun setting-up the plays and it stunk worst than this 8 game losing streak.”

That’s so true, Diablo.

Those were some awful games back when we started an Iverson/Hamilton backcourt, weren’t they?

FWIW, we’re 16 – 21 since Stuckey became a starter.

We had more quality wins (CLE, LAL, SAS) in the 15 games of the Iverson/Hamilton backcourt than in the 37 games since it ended (ORL, DEN).

I basically understand why the vets checked out mentally in January. If management makes it abundantly clear they don’t care about winning this year, why should players care about winning this year?

Palace Sports and Entertainment has its marketing hook for next year: “32 wins is Stuck-tastic!!!” So why not cancel the rest of this year’s games and waive the vets before March 1st?

How about “Cap Space is Tay-Riffic”?

“When this trade first happened, I tried to see sunshine and rainbows, and not the storm cloud that always follows AI.”

Last year in Denver was sunshine and rainbows. Of course, the coach there saw Iverson as a playmaker rather than as a scorer, so that made sunshine and rainbows a lot easier to come by…

This year’s roster was always going to be a challenge, but pulling the plug after only 15 games to “develop Stuckey” really was a bit of a drag. The roster was a challenge, but there was also a lot of potential there. They owed it to the vets to at least give it a real try.

Month Iverson’s shots per game Win/loss
Nov. 13.6 9-6
Dec. 14.8 9-5
Jan. 15.1 6-9
Feb. 16.7 2-9

Hmmm…seems to be a trend there…

Ai should shut ‘er down before his own rep is tarnished even more. I think AI is still capable of averaging 20+ ppg, but not in Curry’s offense. AI looks worse than he probably is, just like the rest of our roster. He’s gotta be pretty frustrated.

That’s an odd way to implement a “develop Rodney Stuckey” strategy…by giving AI increasingly more shots…

Sorry Boney.. I would start Billups at point but…..

@ paetey: "I basically understand why the vets checked out mentally in January. If management makes it abundantly clear they don’t care about winning this year, why should players care about winning this year?
"

That’s crap. January, when we’ve got “quality” wins. We’re second behind Clev in the Central. I believe the 4th seed at the time? Yeah, and you’re the one saying we should cut AI & Sheed loose? Or give AI more time or let Sheed float around the 3 pt line.

If you’re right, all the more reason to sit AI & Sheed’s ass on the bench.

“Hmmm…seems to be a trend there…”

I agree with you, Shinons!

I think how we were playing early on was the correct way to play, even if there were numerous kinks to be worked out.

Putting Stuckey in the starting lineup and proclaiming him The Point Guard Of The Future coincided with Curry telling Iverson to shoot instead of passing. That’s why that trend exists…

“That’s an odd way to implement a "develop Rodney Stuckey" strategy…by giving AI increasingly more shots…”

I agree with you again, Shinons!

If what the Pistons were doing with Stuckey was really developing him, I could sorta understand the rationale. But I think they are actually hurting his development while they piss away this year.

Remember, in Mike Curry’s warped mind, Iverson is the shooting guard, so he should catch and shoot instead of playmaking. Stuckey is the point guard, so he should playmake instead of scoring.

It’s ass-backwards from both of their skillsets, but welcome to our nightmare…

(Iverson should play PG. Hamiltion should play SG. Stuckey should be the Third Guard, play 25mpg, and take advantage of the fact that defenses are too worried about Iverson and Hamiltion to pay attention to him. He would’ve spent more time attacking the rim, and he would’ve developed a helluva lot better that way than the way we see. Plus, we might’ve actually been a good team that way.)

Petey,

I don’t think you’re typing “FWIW” too much… keep doing it

oh and… rainbows and sunshine in Denver?

If I remember correctly, the head coach in Denver had quite a lot to say once AI was gone…

Michael Curry needs to stop making moves based on what other people think and do what needs to be done to get wins. It’s bad enough Flip and Chauncey are gone—he just didn’t want to look like a heel by NOT starting AI—who is a bonefide superstart—but more than CLEARLY that doesn’t work. Richard Hamilton has always been the hardest working player on the team—often taking a backseat to Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace. This time, however, the Pistons have a rookie coach and veteran players that have actually WON a championship. Michael Curry doesn’t take enough blame/credit for this terrible display of losing. I think the team needs to SIT AI down and put Richard Hamilton w/Stuckey and the rest of the crew. AI needs time to get in touch with the playing style. I think instead of partying, going to the Casino and bringing the Pistons down, AI needs to go to these guys and find out HOW TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP! You don’t go to a car dealership to purchase bread! I am tired of people asking folk that don’t have the experience for an answer. Get RIP back into the game, sit AI down and SHUT MICHAEL CURRY up. He looks as inexperienced as HE IS…SHAME ON DETROIT FANS FOR TAKING FLIP AND CHAUNCEY FOR GRANTED!!! I know the team will have room to grow in a few years, but this is pathetic. Fortunately for me, my favorite team is LA—and look at what place we’re in! LOL! Pistons, get it together! Fans, this is what happens when you lose your point guard and your coach in the same year. Keep your head up Rip, you are my #3 favorite basketball player—and that’s pretty good considering WHO I AM!

Two thumbs up to MW for his new color photo at Fanhouse.

Sheed can play. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3936906

Iverson should play PG. Hamiltion should play SG. Stuckey should be the Third Guard, play 25mpg

Which still wouldn’t make us a winning team. Any lineup, save stuckey, AI and rip at the 1,2,3 with two genuine bigs at the 4 and 5, is a losing combination. Any Detroit lineup where AI controls the ball and “deforms defenses” is not just a losing combination, but it fucks with Stuckey’s development.

“proclaiming him The Point Guard Of The Future”

That has been the goal since Stuckey was drafted, it wasn’t a recent proclamation. And what he did in December and January shows that he’s certainly worth the investment. Thanks to MCIAFI, his shooting has gone down from 14.5 per game in that stretch to 9 a game now, but there’s plenty of evidence to show what happens when Stuckey controls the ball.

32 wins is Stuck-tastic!!!

His recent drop-off has more to do with AI and Curry than it does his own talent. Suggesting Stuckey will lead this team to a shit record is a stretch coming from a fan of the most talented loser in recent NBA history.

@PS:
That’s one handsome devil!

@ MP et al.:

I’m sure this has been discussed on other threads, but I suspect that—in addition to coaching/rotation/offensive-scheme issues—Stuckey might be hitting the “rookie wall.” He didn’t play that many minutes last season, because of his preseason/early-season injury and his delayed emergence as one of the top Zoo Crew subs, and now he’s probably feeling the effects of playing starter minutes over an entire season.

Still, Stuckey is strong and smart. I think he’ll be fine next year, provided the coaching/rotation/offensive-scheme problems are addressed during the off-season.

That’s one handsome devil!

I think a StyleCrave profile of MW is in order.

“Any Detroit lineup where AI controls the ball and "deforms defenses" is not just a losing combination…”

Well, a lineup last year “where AI controls the ball and deforms defenses” won 50 games. And I think the current Pistons roster has more talent than the Nene-less Nuggets roster from last year.

“Suggesting Stuckey will lead this team to a shit record is…”

…a preview of the ‘09-’10 season. Rebuilding is Stuck-tastic!!!

(Again, the problem is not Stuckey. The problem is Stuckey being molded into a role that doesn’t suit his strengths. The tragedy of the ‘08-’09 Pistons is that a group of reasonably talented players are pretty much ALL being used in roles that don’t suit their strengths. Stuckey will have time to recover from this disaster, though who knows if he actually will recover, but Iverson, Wallace, and Dice won’t have the time. Dumars owed it to the vets to at least try to win this year.)

@PS:
re: “rookie wall”

You’re right— and he discussed that in his recent interview on ESPN. He mentioned how he had trouble with it— and that he didn’t play a full season last year and that this has been an adjustment for him, going for the full 82.

I would have thought that, after the all star break, that his legs would be refreshed and MC could start giving him 15 attempts per game again… sadly that hasn’t happened. In spite of the “rookie wall”, I still feel that AI and Curry have been the biggest factors on Stuckey’s tough February. A few bad games is forgiveable for a rookie-and-a-half. A month full of games with Stuckey averaging 9 attempts is unforgiveable for a coach, rookie or not.

In spite of the "rookie wall", I still feel that AI and Curry have been the biggest factors on Stuckey’s tough February. A few bad games is forgiveable for a rookie-and-a-half. A month full of games with Stuckey averaging 9 attempts is unforgiveable for a coach, rookie or not.

Well said, MP. Curry could really do some things to help Stuckey, but it seems that with each bad loss we are approaching the “wait-’til-next year” phenomenon.

@Petey:
Well, a lineup last year "where AI controls the ball and deforms defenses" won 50 games. And I think the current Pistons roster has more talent than the Nene-less Nuggets roster from last year.

You must have missed where I said a DETROIT lineup… Which is funny since you quoted it. The problem is that not only does the current Pistons roster have more talent than the Nuggets, it is also a very, very different team (night-and-day, I’d offer). My point— Iversons “deforming and controlling” does not work in this team. (which is Dumars’ fault) This isn’t a team of “mindless robots” that AI needs to play with, to quote Chris Webber.

The problem is Stuckey being molded into a role that doesn’t suit his strengths.

Since you didn’t define the role or the strengths, I’m going to assume you are not suggesting that he shouldn’t play the point. I was watching those games in December and January when Stuckey dominated in that role, showing that trading Billups wasn’t a bad move— it was just done for the wrong guy.

“Well, a lineup last year "where AI controls the ball and deforms defenses" won 50 games. And I think the current Pistons roster has more talent than the Nene-less Nuggets roster from last year.”

FWIW

The 2006-2007 Denver Nuggets won 45 games and finished 2nd in their division, just like last season. Soooo… 5 more wins… 1 more win from the previous season…

So AI is good for 5 additional wins on a team where Carmelo Anthony is the only scoring threat, with Nene out…
 
Denver’s offense is much more wide open than Detroits… 110ppg scored and 107ppg given up on defense is much different that Detroit’s teams… much much different.

PDXPistonsFan, Sheed is no longer a Top 10 PF. And it’s not Stuckey or Curry’s fault if he doesn’t go in the poat. Even when there’s a play called for him to go down there, he allows himself to get pushed out to ten feet and shoots a fadeaway. He just doesn’t want to bang anymore.

So sick of his Mike-Tyson-I’d-rather-get-kicked-out-of-a-game-than-risk-losing -straight-up act. It’s a loser mentality. And while it’s too much to call him a cancer. He’s definitely a really bad flu.

FWIW

Ya Petey, we did pull out some impressive wins during that stint but one or two solid wins doesn’t make up for the rest of the games during the “Iverson and Rip backcourt era”. Unless, you like a squad that can only win 46% of their games. Well, I guess in your case it sure beats the hell out of winning at only 41% (Iverson and Stuckey).

The point is we benched Stuckey in favor of having Iverson and Rip in the backcourt already. Even though you find it successful, as true Piston fans WE don’t like winning at 46% so we moved on. Then we decided to go “smallball” in having Rip, Stuckey, and Iverson start, that sucked, we moved on. Then we benched Rip and started Stuckey and Iverson and it has lead to the worst record and losing streak this franchise has seen in over a decade. So what do you propose we do? We already tried everything else, what next, do you want us to start Bynum/Afflalo with Iverson while Stuckey and Rip sit on the bench? Right. This line-up sucked and we all knew it from the moment it was set-up, now it’s time for Iverson to be benched because it obvious with him as a starter we can’t get anything accomplished.

Everyone else on this team has had to make sacrifices it’s time for Iverson to man-up and sit his ass on the bench.

The cleveland-lakers wins weren’t due to the iverson/hamilton backcourt, they were due to starting Kwame ;)

Agree or disagree with Petey on AI, this is certainly true:

“The tragedy of the ‘08-’09 Pistons is that a group of reasonably talented players are pretty much ALL being used in roles that don’t suit their strengths.”

Now that I think about it Kwame was pretty good against the Lakers. He does rebound and defend fairly well and can score around the basket…

Holy crap, I’m talking myself in to wanting to see Kwame freaking Brown start again. These really are desperate times.

“You must have missed where I said a DETROIT lineup… Which is funny since you quoted it. The problem is that not only does the current Pistons roster have more talent than the Nuggets, it is also a very, very different team (night-and-day, I’d offer). My point– Iversons "deforming and controlling" does not work in this team.”

As stated upthread, there were definitely some serious kinks to be worked through in order to make this roster work. It wouldn’t have been easy, but it would have been possible.

Tay and Rip would’ve needed to change their roles a bit, but it would’ve been possible.

Afflalo and Amir would’ve needed to step up a bit, but wouldn’t that have been good for the Pistons’ future? Stuckey would have needed to focus on his actual talents, but wouldn’t that have been good for the Pistons’ future?

As I was writing back in December, the sad thing about the decisions taken was that trying to win based around Iverson’s handle this year actually would have been good for the Piston kids’ development.

Instead, management managed to both throw away the season AND retard their kids’ development. It’s a two-fer!

(But at least Palace Sports and Entertainment has the coming 32 win Stuck-gasm to market to their season ticket-holders this summer. Renew, because we’re Stuck In The Middle With You?)

I like this for the renewal slogan:

Renew. Don’t Worry, Iverson’s Gone!

diablo, i understand all your points. but dont you think that AI and RIP have become significantly better at playing and understanding each other since the trade happened?

The Pistons’ front office, management, and coaching staff has demonstrated this season that they are stubborn and closeminded as their fans. I’m sure AI is about as excited as I am for the season to be over so he can leave this run-down, grimey shithole better known as Detroit.

32 win Stuck-gasm

See, you keep going back to that when you have no evidence to suggest that’ll happen. Its a bit insulting, but then again you do a lot of that here. I don’t understand why you keep coming back when its clear that, uh, nearly everyone above doesn’t like you here. You’re some kind of masochist, Petey.

trying to win based around Iverson’s handle this year actually would have been good for the Piston kids’ development.

And as I stated upthread, it would NOT have been good for Stuckey’s development. When it comes to development, Stuckey is the main feature, the primary focus, the top priority. Its why we moved Chauncey in the first place. the rest of the “Pistons kids”, as you said, may not ever gain a long-term starting spot.

So no— “winning” based around Iverson’s handle would not have happened, and it would have taken away from the main focus of our development, Rodney Stuckey.

Renew. Don’t Worry, Iverson’s Gone!

And with him, Petey (and kian, david stern, entityabyss)

@sdf

Who fucking cares.

Starbury the Midget’s ass. Embarrass him. Let’s see some real “sacrifice.”

I am totally down with buying out AI’s entire contract, just so all these fucks will have another “fan site” to destroy.

I second that notion, colin.

@colin:
Agreed. Not only do I have to take my team (whose play is generally the best part of my Winter) totally falling apart, but I have to deal with a bunch of blinded fanboys talk shit all over my favorite website.

No. Blind is thinking the future’s going to be anything like the past with a team led by Stuckey. And not realizing “the answer” is right in front of you…

@david stern’s son:
“the answer” to a selfish team, a bad record and an influx of brainless commenters on the smartest basketball blog on the web? You’re right.

Is anyone else actually getting a little freaked out by all these, “look at all this good news!!!” articles on pistons.com?

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons.html
http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/practice_090226.html

If things are so good, then why do they keep feeling like they need to blare out the message that things are good…

“Son of Stern” looks better, you should change it.

Whilst we converse son, what run-down, grimey shithole you from?

I actually don’t mind Petey’s comments at all, but the rest of these off-brand motherfuckers gotta go.

“diablo, i understand all your points. but dont you think that AI and RIP have become significantly better at playing and understanding each other since the trade happened?”

Why keep beating a dead horse? Iverson is the only one out of our 3-Guard rotation that hasn’t made a sacrifice, if he is the “rental-player” everyone keeps saying he is, he should of been the first one to make a sacrifice. Iverson should do the right thing and bench himself or play this injury off the entire season.

Gabe, I can’t help but think about how they kept telling the passengers on the Titanic that everything was okay too.
“Don’t worry, the ship can’t sink!”
“Alright, we’re sinking, but it will take so long that we’ll get rescued first!”
And you really know you’re boned when they say “The water’s not as cold as it looks!”

I am from Philadelphia, PA but currently reside in a well-built up surrounding suburb. And Iverson himself has stated he’s made many sacrifices since joining the Pistons, so Diablo is a perfect example on why I just stated that these fans are as stubborn and closeminded as basically everyone else in the organization. Mike Payne and I don’t see eye to eye so I’m “brainless.” Hmmm, could this be another example?

To be honest, I’d miss Petey. He’s the voice of the AI fans, except somewhat rational. Well, mostly what I’d miss would be agreeing with all the guys that were here before AI in an “us vs. them” dichotomy. Being part of a group is almost like having friends.

If we lose the next three to five games we should be getting close to the point where Dumars can quietly suggest to Curry to bench the problem ,not the answer, put Amir back in the starting line up. Put Mcdyess back on the bench ,he,s been playing great but we need him on the bench,bench Rasheed start Max in his place, and lets see what we got for next year , hell 5 more losses and were outa the playoffs anyway, we might as well see what we got for the future, when the answer is gone.

What sacrifices, pray tell, has the Brood Midget of Faggelsox made since he came to our team? Other than shot attempts (a stat in which he still leads the team)?

Allen Iverson sucks. I’ve got a bladderful of old coffee just begging to be released into his pumas.

I’m sorry, FATHER OF SKYLAR, I try to stay out of the AI debates because I don’t think he’s the biggest problem with the team. But, just because he’s said he’s made sacrifices, doesn’t mean he’s made any.

You mean, not turning his head on defense is a sacrifice?
Integrating into the offense is a sacrifice?

What the hell sacrifices has he made? I like AI, but I wanted to throw a rock at the computer screen when I read that comment from him.

@David Stern or “David Stern’s Son” or “Father of Skylar”:
Don’t worry man, your being brainless has nothing to do with the fact that we disagree. I’d be foolish to single out Petey and call him brainless, as he’s clearly not. I still disagree with him though. You just haven’t said anything here that’s intelligent or valuable to the community. “why you hatin’ AI” or “stuckey sucks” or “detroit’s a shithole” brings nothing to the table.

@Joel:
you just joined Laughton and Garrett as the three funniest motherfuckers on DBB. Your prize? A pair of AI’s sneakers.

Birdman +1

somebody mentioned this lately, but this seems the same as the sean elliot era. a quality player coming to our team and not being used effectively. I can see iverson having the same bounceback that elliot had back then. And the midget stuff is amateur hour, kids. If you’re trying to sound like you don’t know nba and are just blind homers, you’re doing a great job.

Thank you Father of Skylar for explaining why Iverson has made SO many sacrifices.

Yet, I’m so closedminded I have the audacity to thoroughly explain why Iverson hasn’t made any sacrifices. But yet, you are so openminded that just because Iverson “said so” (with out providing any examples or explanations) that it’s good enough to override any of the facts or examples I laid out.

If that’s the case I’m a proud closeminded individual because I provide truth/explanations with my statements.

He’s been force to sacrifice his entire game. He’s been the man on his team his entire career, with a sidekick in ‘melo the previous season and half. But when he was thrown here he has been expected to just fit in and be regular Allen. His game is not built like that and its obvious alot of his teammates were/are sulking over losing their best bud in Chauncey, and not 100% committed to moving on. One of his greatest strengths is pushing the ball at a speed few NBA players have ever seen before, but here it’s expected to walk it up and burn 8-9 seconds before jumping into the slow developing offense. And then he’s put even a more difficult spot because he has to play beside “the future of the franchise”. If he’s too assertive hes hindering Stuckey’s developement, if he’s not he’s not being used effectively. These are just few of many sacrifices.

….. vs “he’s a rental player”.. more like lease with an option to buy.. CLOSEMINDED

Father of Skylar, I bet even Petey thinks that post is stupid.

Bahhh. This sucks. Can we officially just move on from this shit? Obviously the two factions are entrenched. I’m not gonna be suddenly convinced that AI is the Answer. It’s too much to hope that the fanboi’s stop posting asinine bs, but maybe the rest of us could just ignore them.

When AI is done playing here I will gladly retire as well… but how exactly could we just move on when clearly the biggest issue at hand is whether AI plays or not, or whether he’s being used effectively or not. Otherwise, the L’s will keep piling up until something is done.

Agreed, Colin. It’s done. I have more Sheed bashing to do.

I’m just shocked at how alarming this season has become in almost every respect. From coaching, to veteran leadership, to development of youth, to gameplans and strategies, everything is in doubt right now.
Will I blame that on AI? Curry? Rasheed falling apart physically and emotionally? The daily regression of guys we had high hopes for? I can’t slam any one particular thing, like “AI’s 1 dimenshunal and he sux his teem always sux111!!!ELEVEN” crap some espouse. Or outright believing that MCIA total FI who is beyond clueless. It’s just a perfect storm of terrible that’s striking a team that hasn’t dealt with such a situation, and is not at all prepared to handle such a situation in terms of coaching or leadership.
AI is a good player, but he doesn’t fit anything that we’ve tried to do over the past decade. Curry is in WAY over his head with this team in its current situation. There’s clearly some egos in the locker-room that need constant stroking. There’s some others that clearly aren’t ready to assume the role that this team desperately needs.
Some people would say that this team was “blown up” at the beginning of the season, but it’s really more like the roof collapsed or the foundation shifted. And now, this team needs to be razed, in order to start over.

Rasheed needs to be jettisoned as soon as possible, though Terry Foster’s delusional if he thinks his scenario would ever pan out, if anyone read that article.

Right on QD. I will join you in bitching about Rasheed. He is a dick.

link Keegan?

Good for Rip.

Why couldn’t we have just traded Chauncey for Raef Lafrentz…?

I think his contract is worth less.

I think he’s worthless.

Just imagine if the Kobe Bryant deal had went through and we started to collasped in the middle of the season…

This blog would be all out war in hell.

lol @ ‘Melo being Iverson’s sidekick

“Why couldn’t we have just traded Chauncey for Raef Lafrentz…?”

Well, if you think that AI fanboyz are bad, you should meet the Raef LaFriends…

The problem with AI’s game and AI fitting in is that excluding 2001, I don’t think Ai’s team ever made it past the first round, maybe 2nd max.

You don’t take a team that gone to 5 ECF’s, add a player and adjust to said player. Said player is to adjust/fit in and that’s where the bitching about AI is. The only ones you might make a team adjust to is Shaq (in his prime not at pheonix) or a Magic, Kareem or MJ. Clearly, AI isn’t in this category and certainly isn’t at this stage of his career.

AI said it back in Dec or Jan when he said basically “I’ve never been on a team I thought would be better with me coming off the bench.” Well, that’s true to the extent the teams he’s been on save the 01 Sixers weren’t very good. Save the Denver arguements. The team never got out of the first round with him and besides Melo, didn’t have anyone (perhaps JR Smith excepted.)

I think what this really proves is AI is a great talent not a great player. Because afterall, basketball is a 5 on 5 game. When we do better next year, he’ll be kinda like Starbury: the teams he left got better.

Dribbling the ball up the court FAST is an overrated skill. Usain Bolt could be the PG for the Pistons and dribble like Marques Haynes and it’s still not as fast as passing the damn ball. I hate it when the Pistons walk it up but ideally 3 or 4 guys with good spacing are involved in bringing the ball up through crisp passing. Speed and handle are secondary aspects of a fast break to court vision, spacing, and execution.

QD -

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090226/OPINION03/902260451/1127/SPORTS0102

It’s really improbable.

Um, I think QD is getting handle jacked. This doesn’t seem like the QD we’ve all come to know.

I’ll second/third that we should stop the bickering over AI because clearly nobody is going to have their opinion changed.

But with that said, this needs to be repeated (because it’s hilarious):

“What sacrifices, pray tell, has the Brood Midget of Faggelsox made since he came to our team? Other than shot attempts (a stat in which he still leads the team)?

Allen Iverson sucks. I’ve got a bladderful of old coffee just begging to be released into his pumas."
-Joel

Gabe, clearly nobody is going to have their opinion changed, but clearly one side is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG… WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG… WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

…that should read:

dr.cox/
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG… WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG… WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
/dr. cox

I’m new around here, been following the Pistons for a few years. Is it normal for every thread to turn into “I love Iverson” versus “I hate Iverson”?

It was like that before the season started, and for maybe the past month and a half. It’s getting a little old again.

I’m new around here, been following the Pistons for a few years. Is it normal for every thread to turn into "I love Iverson" versus "I hate Iverson"?

Incase you missed it, Iverson is new to the team.

Put AI on the bench, and let him run wild with the zoo crew. That’s the only move that makes sense to those of us who have been watching the Pistons for longer than this season — and now we have even more data to back up that idea.

=======

Honestly, I think it’s sad to see our Pistons resorting to venting to the media. If you have something to say that’s as substantial as this, say it to your coach and your teammates in the locker room — and let it live or die there.

@SadPanda:
No, absolutely not. It’ll likely go on until Iverson walks, then DBB will go back to (relative) normality. Prior to this season, DBB has been amazing. Sure, if we lose twice in a row the sky would fall, sure there were some raging debates that occasionally got nasty (see: boy, lawyer), but honestly— DBB kicks ass. It is the best, smartest community of Pistons fans on the web. Stick around man, these repeated debates will continue as long as that guy’s got a Pistons uni (or until MC stops being AFI). Afterward, the water’s fine.

I definitely like the passion people show for the Pistons around here, even if things get carried away with Iverson. It reminds me of how things get on the Lions board I go to after, well, every game.

I like how every team AI ever plays on is at fault for not putting a winning team around him…

Philly, they couldn’t put the pieces together around AI even though he had a max contract and didnt think for once to put the team first (and in a better position monetarily).

Denver, the team sucked defensively and couldn’t outscore anyone.

Detroit, the team isn’t letting “the answer” be “the answer”.

This fucking guy is not the answer to shit. He’s a starting shooting guard in the NBA who is shooting in the very low 40% range, he has no mid range or three point range, he’s a poor teammate and he doesn’t put anyone in a position to win. He should step up and say “you know what, I know a team with 2 new starters in the lineup is hard to overcome after the same starting 5 has been together for years, so I’ll come off the bench… I’ll make that sacrifice”. No… what do we get? We hear about all the sacrifices he’s made… he still jacks up the most shots. he still dominates the ball more than any other player. he’s like the anti-Piston.

Good riddance to him and all of the fanbois this offseason… god damn man, this place fucking sucks whenever AI has a solid night anymore…. Kian, Petedouche and all the other fucksticks are quick to raise their voices here when AI shoots 8-18 one night but they are no where to be found when he frequently shoots below 50% from the field and screws the team by missing free throws.

Good riddance to him and all of the fanbois this offseason… god damn man, this place fucking sucks whenever AI has a solid night anymore…. Kian, Petedouche and all the other fucksticks are quick to raise their voices here when AI shoots 8-18 one night but they are no where to be found when he frequently shoots below 50% from the field and screws the team by missing free throws.

Well, that was uncalled for.

Since when is cheering for a Piston player when he does well a bad thing to do as a fan?

“…frequently shoots below 50% from the field and screws the team by missing free throws.”

…and constantly turning the ball over in critical moments of “must-win” games.

Currently watching Cavs Rockets.

It’s nice to see two teams play good defense and run offensive sets.

I kinda forgot what that looks like.

Eerrr, I meant to say play good D.

“It reminds me of how things get on the Lions board I go to after, well, every game.”

Ooo my beloved Lions, another team that had me in a long state of depression not too long ago.

brgulker,

why is it not ok?

1. These toolbags weren’t here last season when Chauncey Billups or Richard Hamilton would shoot horrific percentages even though the team would win through their struggles.

2. No matter how many games AI plays horribly, whenever Denver loses we’re all reminded of how Denver is not better without AI.

3. While we could all see the Rasheed Wallace meltdown coming we also know that it wouldn’t have been as pronounced had AI and his merry band of fanbois not been here to totally screw with the team concept.

MCIAFI – that much is certain.
AI is no longer the Answer. He gives Detroit another dimension for a team to have to worry about defensively but then again, when he makes 2 out of 5 shots and the man he’s defending can get to the rack with ease, there’s not much to worry about.

AI is not the sole problem of this team but he’s FAR from not being a problem.

This is such an emotional thread, perhaps we all need to have a coffee and some biccies (cookies for my American brothers).

I think that if Flip was still here we would have many more wins than we do right now. MCIAFI would still lose a shitload of games even if he had Lebron, Duncan and an in-his-prime Jordan.
Stuckey will figure things out on his own, he will be fine.

The season is done, I want ping pong balls and Patrick Mills or some other random Aussie.

Boney: It wasn’t the content I was talking about — it was the tone. I thought it was unnecessarily hostile.

brgulker, that is the essence of Boney. He may be an a-hole, but he’s our a-hole.

Just like Sheed then, eh?

LBJ “held” to 21 points 0 assists and 1 rebound and sitting with a limp. Is it wrong to be enjoying this just a little bit?

brgulker,

My apologies if I don’t dance around talking about gumdrops and lollipops when it comes to talking/typing about the Detroit Pistons and Allen Iverson.

Perhaps it was harsh, but the fanbois are all baiting, fanboy trolls who at the end of the day are only here to talk bad about the team because, just like with every other AI team, they flock to the message boards to defend their leader. You can see it on the ESPN message boards. Last season you’d see 25-50 comments TOPS on a Piston conversation unless it was Lakers, Celtics or Cleveland… this season all you see is fanbois who blame everything on everyone else.

Good riddance to AI at the end of the season if/when he’s gone…

Getting back to the thread subject, what effect will Rip’s statement have? I’m assuming AI won’t “call it a season” voluntarily, at minimum because he wants a decent contract next year and, more generously, because he actually wants to win.

So, if AI is able to play serious minutes in the relatively near future, what does Curry do? I know most of think he SHOULD bring AI off the bench, but can he do that now that Rip has made that his public demand? Don’t get me wrong, I understand Rip’s feelings completely — he’s been playing better than BOTH starting guards. But can Curry be seen to cave like that?

you can see how the tone of the trolling has turned for the worst lately…

Petey is now typing about a 32 win marketing campaign centered around Stuckey… this type of “discussion” was no where to be found earlier in the season.

EntityAbyss only shows up when AI has a great game… thank god those are few and far between.

david stern finally bailed out. He enjoyed a FRED W CAPEL exit over the all star weekend… he went from being sort of relevant to straight up Piston bashing to ALL CAPS TYPING OHHHH YEAHHHH AI IS THE BEST!!!11

Kian is actually the only tolerable AI donk among them and even he has given up on the season…

I’m not DBB’s asshole, I’m just as abrasive on other sites Other Matt…

Remember when t-mac got hurt for the year and the Rockets are on a 6 game win streak after just blowing out Cleveland.

I do have to agree with Boney here. I’ve been visiting this board for about 3 years now and never have I seen the animosity between posters that I’ve seen this season. It used to be a collective of real Pistons fans discussing games, players and basketball with a slight bias (ok maybe a large bias) toward our home team. The discussions had intelligent, meaningful and non-hostile debates regardless of whether other posters agreed with what was said/typed.

This year has been thread after thread of newcomers attacking regular posters here as if they have never watched a Pistons game before this season. It’s getting a little old. Can’t wait until next season when the newbies find some other board to infiltrate.

BONEY!!! YOU ARE DA MAN~!!

@Sean W.:
+1000

someone please fill me in about this FRED W. CAPEL fella?

… and i’d love to have the privelege of being a piston’s fan all my life but this is AI first season here unfortunately. more sincerity than sarcasm. i just want to apologize for maybe coming off as an asshole on here. how about we make a pact to all get along for the rest of the season regardless of what happens.

@David Stern:
I’d like that. Pretty big of you to say that, its often the nature of the internet to bring out the asshole in us all. Sorry about my comments above, it was a bit brainless of me to go there, maybe I was a bit heated too…

The Extra Bad Feelings on the blog recently are in good part because the team is not just doing badly, but doing much worse than even “realistic” assessments of even a couple of months ago would have predicted. In the past several years, real disappointments/hard times didn’t come until the end of the Eastern Conference Finals.

I mean, there was some nit-picking — is Flip doing a good job coaching, is Chauncey too slow, maybe we should try to cut down on the techs, is our bench ever going to produce more? But when a team is winning 55 games in the regular season and then getting through the first two rounds of the playoffs, it’s hard to be too miserable. Ah, what I would give for those types of complaints now. . . .

Boney, I meant “our” as a DBB regular. I always get a kick out of the newbies who are always like, “why you gotta be such a dick?”

@david stern:
Just speaking for myself… You got a deal. Doesn’t mean people can’t or shouldn’t disagree, but when we disagree everyone should try to be more civil or even better, everyone should be more comically uncivil (Joel’s “piss in Curry’s shoes” or almost any Boney post would be good examples). For example, if someone says something you disagree with like: “AI’s the most overrated superstar ever…” instead of a Petey style condescending response about the person’s lack of basketball knowledge, come up with a little nugget of funny/snark as a response instead (i.e. “If AI just had Tay’s pump fake, then he’d really be something…” or “fine, if AI=overrated superstar, then Rip=overrated all star, Tay=overrated wannabe all star, Amir=…”) Those aren’t perfect examples, but hopefully you get the point. A little bit o’ funny makes everything go down a lot easier.

@Gabe:

Well said. I don’t mind a little jab every once in a while but the condescending “I’m the only one who knows anything about the sport” type remarks are just not cool.

Group hug? JK

@Sean W.:
lingers a little too long, arms a little too low

Anyone else watching the Lakers/Suns game? The Lakers, on offense, are literally playing a different sport then the Pistons. There’s less than no comparison… One is a thing of beauty, the other is crafted around things Michael Curry remembers Doug Collins told him 15 years ago.

So it looks like Sheed may not be available after all tomorrow night vs. the Magic. Apparently the league is still reviewing the towel throw onto the court to see if that warrants a suspension vis A. Sherrod Blakely from Mlive.com

It would be nice to have him against Dwight as a big body. If Sheed were to miss the game do you think starting Kwame would be plausible? He definately provides the needed size.

Whoa MP, hands where my eyes can see ’em!

Also OM, if I’d have bet you before the season that Michigan would make the tourney and Detroit would miss the playoffs, what odds would you have given me? 1,000,000:1? Not saying it happens, but imagine the mark to market on that bet today. Even better than my buddy who took the D Rays to win the Series last year at 300:1 and covered at like 5:1.

Also, can we pause a moment to give Tom Brady a hand? Way to marry an absolute smoke show. I’m proud of you.

Sean W.,

Anything positive ever said about Boney gets a +1 from me…

david stern,

I agree not to be a douche to you anymore if you’re not a douche to me

Mike Payne,

I’m feeling all fuzzy inside… is this what happens when you stop acting like an asshole for a few minutes?

I agree Gabe. We’re all in tough situation, but the constant bashing and bickering won’t solve a thing. From this point on, I will support all the Pistons as equally as I can, hoping the best for whomever’s out on the court at the time. I promise not too take anything said on here personally and will restrain from retaliating and getting under peoples’ skin. Again, all apologies.

I am dismayed by the friendliness and rationality that has emerged in the past few hours. F—- everybody!

Heh heh.

wow.. the way the lakers are moving the ball around right now is absolutely a thing of beauty. if only the pistons had half this much chemistry and unselfishness

this blog’s downward social spiral is a microcosm of the acute stress and troubles facing many people in society today. But, i refuse to capitulate to collective consciousness bickering, being as I’m unemployed/underemployed, I most like saying silly shit and reading material of that nature. I would be hard pressed to be offended here.

plus, i go by fcking PIñON LOPEZ6 #↨# ♀♂ ↓↑ ♪↕↔ ♫

@Petey:
Well, a lineup last year "where AI controls the ball and deforms defenses" won 50 games. And I think the current Pistons roster has more talent than the Nene-less Nuggets roster from last year.

Does everyone here realize that AI has only been on 1 team that has won over 50 games in a season? And that season was the same season Philly went to the NBA finals. That season was also the weakest Eastern conference EVER.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2001.html

The Bucks were the second best team in East with a 52-30 record. Just to show you how long ago it was, their top 3 scorers were Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, and Sam Cassell. Lindsey Hunter played 82 games with them.

The Heat were the 3rd best team in the East with a 50-32 record with Mourning only playing 13 games that season. Their top 4 scorers, in order, were… and this cracks me up… Eddie Jones, Anthony Mason, Brian Grant, and Tim Hardaway.

OK, so does anyone else think that record might have been artificially inflated… and AI’s reputation with it?

So there is one last theory that brings me hope for this season. That theory goes like this:

1) Joe Dumars and Curry knew it’d be next to impossible to convince AI he should be coming off the bench.

2) Dumars and Curry decide they’ll let him start for a ridiculously length of time with every combination the Pistons have to offer… to unequivocally “prove” that there’s no way this team can win against real competition with AI starting.

3) After all other options have been explored Curry finally starts Rip with the old gang with AI coming off the bench. Curry and Dumars then “fine tune” our wins and losses to get the preferred match up we want… this season that’d be Orlando.

We might make it to the second round after all!!!!

“…instead of a Petey style condescending response about the person’s lack of basketball knowledge…”

You, sir, are extremely nescient about hoops.

“I’m new around here, been following the Pistons for a few years. Is it normal for every thread to turn into "I love Iverson" versus "I hate Iverson?”

It’s not just here. Pretty much every fan or press discussion on Iverson since he came into the league quickly devolves into "I love Iverson" versus "I hate Iverson".

The guy is, as they say in politics, extremely polarizing.

And the bizarre thing about it to me is that it’s all the discussions are fundamentally about his cultural persona, not his game. It’s sorta reminiscent of when black quarterbacks first started appearing in the NFL in the 80’s – folks pretended to be talking about their games when they were really talking about something else.

Which is really too bad, because Iverson’s game is close to being unique and is pretty fascinating. Combo guards who dominate the ball tend to not be particularly useful in a team context in the NBA under the post-2001 rules allowing zones. The only exceptions are Wade and Iverson, and there are two caveats with Wade: 1) he has the advantage of having tweener size, and 2) the jury is still out on whether or not his body can withstand the punishment.

In a way, the uniqueness of Iverson’s game makes it not all that surprising that folks wouldn’t understand it, even if the cultural stuff made them not even bother to try. Opposing teams play a specific kind of “Iverson defense” that they don’t use against anyone else, and Iverson’s teams (prior to the current Pistons) played a specific kind of offense that no one else uses. If a player’s skillset is incredibly rare, and fans are blinded by other topics when they see him, it kinda makes sense that no one actually pays attention to the game.

Add in the specifics blindness of many Detroit fans, where they mistakenly thought the specific kind of ball the Pistons played with the ’02 – ’07 group of players was a special kind of House Brand that was going to endure after those players departed, and you have the makings of an especially polarized Iverson debate.

So to summarize, DBB is not that unusual in both being polarized about Iverson and being essentially blind about his game. It’s the same in the league-wide press, and it was the same in Philly. Folks who work in the association “get” Iverson, but the press and fans usually don’t.

Oddly, the one place were the fans and press “got” Iverson was Denver. And that was perhaps because Denver is a lousy hoops town, so only real association junkies bothered following the team. And association junkies do tend to understand what’s going on with Chuck.

Hey, if Iverson got us wins… maybe a 60+ win season, I’d have LOVED him. But, I don’t know if those AI apologists realize this, but he doesn’t generate wins.

“Curry doesn’t use him the right way!”

Well, apparently George Karl, Maurice Cheeks, Randy Ayers, Jim O’Brian, Larry Brown, and Johnny Davis didn’t know how to use him the right way either.

“What about his 56-26 season?!?”

As I pointed out earlier, it was the ONLY season he had that was over 50 wins… and it was in the weakest Eastern Conference ever seen.

“What about the 50-32 season last year?!? That was very good season!”

You don’t want to get into a Chauncey Billups vs Iverson in Denver debate do you???

AI’s a gimmick. Plain and simple.

@Petey: “And the bizarre thing about it to me is that it’s all the discussions are fundamentally about his cultural persona, not his game. It’s sorta reminiscent of when black quarterbacks first started appearing in the NFL in the 80’s – folks pretended to be talking about their games when they were really talking about something else.”

You’re an idiot. If you REALLY think this, I seriously question your IQ.

What has happened with the AI situation makes you wonder about the more unseen things that Curry brings.

If there is an obvious solution, like bringing AI off the bench, which he won’t even try, it pretty much tells you he is going to have trouble seeing other matchup situations/variations and possible solutions/advantages to be had.

And I don’t that this resistance to bench AI comes from Dumars. I viewed the AI-billups trade as a salary move, albeit great from a PR move (tricking casual fans/AI fanbois into thinking they were still trying to compete).

Just for the AI fans. You do realize that in the 2001 season, AI was surrounded by players who had little or no offensive game, but were good rebounders/defenders. This in effect was and is the only way to effectively implement a player like him.

Just for Boney, please familiarize yourself with advanced team stats. Denver actually had a better defense than offense last year. PPG ignores pace. You should look at defensive and offensive efficiency.

“And the bizarre thing about it to me is that it’s all the discussions are fundamentally about his cultural persona, not his game. It’s sorta reminiscent of when black quarterbacks first started appearing in the NFL in the 80’s – folks pretended to be talking about their games when they were really talking about something else.”

Petey,

You are a fucking idiot. What are we talking about when we REALLY talk about AI? Are we talking about his tattoos (I’ve never seen this once), are we talking about his corn rows (only talked about after he cut them off, and mainly it was you talking about how shocked you were" or are we fucking talking about his lack of abilities at this stage of his career?

This isn’t David Stern’s NBA circa 2000-2002 where AI reportedly was asked to wear armbands and accessories to cover up tattoos… this isn’t David Stern’s NBA where tattoos were allegedly photoshopped out of pictures… This is a fucking 2008-2009 NBA season on a Detroit Pistons blog. No one here cares about your shoes, your wristbands, the name on your back… Get over yourself you ignorant fool, AI is a grown ass man now. He’s 33 years old, his best days are behind him. Gone are the days of the 40 and 50 point games and jumping on the scorer’s table with his hand cupped to his ear… I’m surprised he doesn’t get booed when he steps on the floor at the Palace like Larry Hughes gets booed at MSG. He’s playing like Larry Hughes this season, so why shouldn’t he get the Larry Hughes treatment? At least Hughes plays defense…

And you’re here talking about polarizing figures and how people talking about black quarterbacks in the 80’s while not talking about their skills, as if you’re trying insinuate we ever called this guy some kind of a thug because of his tats or cornrows or anything close to it. You talkin’ about racism man… RACISM… and it has nothing to do with any problems that ANYONE on this board has had with AI since joining the Pistons. Just think about that dude… trying to dredge up that old racism argument about people don’t like him because of his tats, hair, the way he dresses, talks, etc… it’s a tired argument from tired pieces of shit like yourself that need to resign themselves to the fact that in a couple of years they’re going to need a new jockstrap to grab onto.

Matt,

Please familiarize yourself with this:

If you give up more points than you score 4 out of 7 games in the playoffs because you play no defense you lose and that’s what happened last season as I’d watch Derek Fisher drive by his man (who could that be?) and his man would turn to the out of bounds line and call for the ball to be inbounded to him.

Re: “Black Quartersbacks/Iverson’s cultural persona”

Maybe in other cities but not one person I know here has critized “Iverson’s cultural persona”. If anyone was complaining about his game it’s because his game has sucked or he hasn’t provided what the fans expect of him. What a load of bull…

And the bizarre thing about it to me is that it’s all the discussions are fundamentally about his cultural persona, not his game. It’s sorta reminiscent of when black quarterbacks first started appearing in the NFL in the 80’s – folks pretended to be talking about their games when they were really talking about something else.

What do you mean you people!!? So anyone who doesn’t like Allen Iverson is racist? Wow.

Pistons New Answers: Bench A.I.:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090227/SPORTS0102/902270358/1127

Detroit Pistons: where rotational racism happens.

(glad McCosky finally caught on to what we were calling for back in early December)

My God. Pure Petey gold. It’s so illogical that it almost beats his Donnie Walsh/Larry Bird quote from before. There’s the obvious retarded statement, saying that we dislike AI because he’s too street for us rather than because we went from a 50 win team to a .500 team and the only two new factors are AI and MCIAFI. Then there’s Petey talking about conversations from the 80s even though it’s pretty obvious from his patronizing, pretentious, pompous Peteyness (yes folks, there it is…an alliteration) that he was born some time in the 80s. And my favorite part:

So to summarize, DBB is not that unusual in both being polarized about Iverson and being essentially blind about his game. It’s the same in the league-wide press, and it was the same in Philly. Folks who work in the association "get" Iverson, but the press and fans usually don’t.

Oddly, the one place were the fans and press "got" Iverson was Denver. And that was perhaps because Denver is a lousy hoops town, so only real association junkies bothered following the team. And association junkies do tend to understand what’s going on with Chuck.

Beautiful. The deluded level of thinking that he’s so above mere NBA fans and more on the level of “the association.” Then the obviously illogical Denver got him because they’re a poor basketball city and Detroit and Philly, both great sports cities, don’t get him – but it shows more that Denver gets him because the ones who follow the team really care. Petey could convince himself of anything.

And this is the point, after having spewed such a load of indefensible garbage, that Petey disappears.

Play the race card…play it…!

/shakes fist

“What do you mean you people!!? So anyone who doesn’t like Allen Iverson is racist? Wow.”

…and…

“Play the race card…play it…”

If I had wanted to say “race” instead of “cultural persona”, I would have said it that way. I try to choose my words carefully, and I’m not shy.

There were plenty of folks who rooted for Joe Frazier to beat Muhammad Ali due to their drastically different cultural personas, and yet both those guys were of the same race.

Wade and Iverson have pretty similar games, and yet the press and fans have been vociferously polarized about Iverson’s game since he entered the association in a way they simply aren’t about Wade. I aver this is almost entirely due to Iverson’s cultural persona, and really don’t think what I’m saying is news to association junkies.

Iverson’s game is somewhat unique and pretty damn beautiful, and most of the press and fans simply have never paid any attention to it. They have bigger fish to fry.

I have severely contrasting feelings about AI to the bench move. First, I’m ‘tears streaming down my face’ happy about it, but I’m also ‘fist and face smashing against a brick wall’ pissed that it too SOOOOOO FUCKING LONG! Are you fucking kidding me- It took 3/4 of the season for Curry to figure this shit out??? I’ve got fucking cataracts from how blindingly obvious this move was from the fucking day the trade was made.

@Shinons:
Good post. But honestly, in the future, once Petey has invoked the “AI cultural significance” argument it’s just no longer worth the time to argue with him, as its basically a sign of him waving the “white” flag of surrender. Once he goes to that level, just know that you’ve already won.

Semantic bullshit, Petey.

Petey, just stop. Cut your losses. That was a ridiculous thing to say… especially without providing links or proof to what you’re talking about. Give it up… this is Detroit. We know what REAL thugs are like.

@Petey:
“Iverson’s game is somewhat unique and pretty damn beautiful, and most of the press and fans simply have never paid any attention to it. They have bigger fish to fry.”

…like …ummm.. winning games?

yeah, Allen Iverson’s game has never been respected.

oops, how many all star games has he started?

Wade and AI have SIMILAR games but, Wade is able to finish at the rim AND his mid-range, 3 point range has improved since that being his hangup as a rookie.

AI’s midrange and 3 point has never improved.

Dear Petey and Boney:

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/02/richard_hamilton_back_in_start.html

Ready…and…fight to the death!

@Gabe – Yeah, I argued with him once or twice. It was pretty clear that it wasn’t going anywhere and it’s pointless to take what he says seriously. Now I just read his posts for the same entertainment value that I watch Keith Olbermann – people who are unreasonably full of themselves are funny.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOO, Keegan!!!! Thank You… Good has triumphed over evil!!! Long live all that is sacred to basketball!!!!

“The Detroit Pistons have made yet another lineup change, and this one appears like it will stick.

Richard Hamilton will be in the starting lineup in place of Allen Iverson, whose sore back makes him questionable for tonight’s game against the Orlando Magic."

fack yeah!

So when we keep losing games, is it still AI’s fault, or do you change to Curry? Tough choice. Sheed is becoming a dark horse candidate for hating. I think i can trust you guys to keep up with the AI villainy for the rest of the season.

Craig…. HAHAHA! Good one. Can you believe it??!? Can you really believe?!?!?! Rip is starting… RIP IS STARTING!!!

Right on, start printing up those ECF tickets!!

@Craig:
We’ll cross that bridge when we get to it… but I call dibs on a good seat in any potential anti-Tay bandwagon.

Craig… gotcha!! I’ll get right on that!!! HAHAHA!!! I’m SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Happy!!!!! This is an AWESOME feeling!!!! Are these tears of joy running down my cheek!!! HAHAHA!!! Yes, they are!!!

I’m starting the “Herrmann’s a locker room cancer” bandwagon early, then.

“Wade and Iverson have pretty similar games, and yet the press and fans have been vociferously polarized about Iverson’s game since he entered the association in a way they simply aren’t about Wade. I aver this is almost entirely due to Iverson’s cultural persona…”

…and the minor facts that Wade has an overal better jumpshot on any part of the court, is a more effective passer, and has a NBA Championship.

But I guess that doesn’t matter since Iverson is the greatest basketball player to ever live.

@Craig:

Sheed has been on the shit list for a few years now.

See:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-01/rasheeds-last-days/

P.S. There are a few goodies in that thread about the possibility of acquiring Iverson. The only positives are cap space. No one supported the trade then either.

Clearly, MCIAFR

So when we keep losing games, is it still AI’s fault, or do you change to Curry?

Yes to both questions. As bad as Rasheed has been this year and as glad as I’ll be to see him leave, when you look at the equation Detroit Pistons + x + y = .500 basketball, x = Michael Curry and y = Allen Iverson.

@Craig:
I think i can trust you guys to keep up with the AI villainy for the rest of the season.

As long as we can trust you to keep bringing the snarky, passive-aggressive comments that are your signature.

Keegan,

I welcome Richard Hamilton back to the starting lineup, and will not fight to the death over it.

"It’s nothing on Allen," Curry said. "He’s just a guy that needs the basketball and because of it that, it reduced the time Stuckey had the ball in his hands."

                                              via Vince Ellis @ Freep.com

…and he’s just figuring this out now?!

/6 to midnight’d

And the Brood Midget’s pumas are indeed rife with my fetid morning coffee urine.

It’s funny – looking at that thread from June, we were all so calm back then, so innocent. Good-natured debate, nobody implying that certain groups of fans are racists, Sauce laying off the Caps Lock button, Boney saying that Chuck Hayes is as untradeable as Yao Ming; it was beautiful.

MP, does that mean i have to start using more !!!!! and CAPS? Alas, I thought my signature was Craig

Amir in the starting lineup didn’t work. Kwame in the starting line didn’t work. Small ball didn’t work. AI-Stuck as a starting backcourt didn’t work. Sending AI to the bench is the big fix? Consider me a skeptic.

Guess it’s time for the fanboys to get used to a little more of this:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07lleD4fdpdDG/340×.jpg

Man, Curry is the worst. I’m glad to see Rip back int he starting 5 and kudos to him for taking a seat when asked, but clearly that didn’t work. Hopefully AI doesn’t get too pouty about this because he has an opportunity to go really hard and tear it up with the second unit.

Sean W: Thanks for the link to that blast from the past. I wanted Brand back then! Good thing we didn’t get him since he’s made of tissue paper! Whew!

Also, can someone translate this for me?

“Hopefully, with the change, more so than Allen and Rip, maybe more guys can play better with this change. That’s what we’re seeking.”

It still boggles my mind how terrible he is at communicating given his background.

Garrett – I was a Brand supporter, too, but you’re right. The guy is made of porcelain. Which leads us to the present, where a lot of people are clamoring for Carlos Boozer, who is possibly even more injury-prone? Maybe it’s because we all have such faith in Arnie Kander.

G – He may be talking about tempo. Starters can run their half-court sets all day, and then AI can push a group that likes to run (consisting of some mish-mash of Max, Afflalo, Amir [if he’s not completely out of the rotation], Bynum, or Walter). I’d really like to see that, and it’s probably what we should have been doing from the get-go.

Garrett – Ya that confused me too… I think he’s saying it’s not so much AI’s bad play that triggered this change, but rather AI taking possessions away from Stuckey, which, inevitably, is stunting Stuckey’s growth. Any way you phrase it, it’s complete BS. The team plays better when AI isn’t in the starting lineup… that’s all we need to hear.

Keegan, I think it has to do with us having a glaring weakness in our front court scoring. And having money to throw around (at least for boozer). And having the same team and looking for some change to put us over the top.

Sorry, I was referencing Sean W’s quote… Curry’s got me so confused! The walls are spinning.

Craig – Don’t get me wrong, a healthy Carlos Boozer type of player would help this team immensely. That is a punishing big man for other teams to contend with in the paint, and it’s something that we just haven’t had since Rasheed’s started to regress due to age. I just wish we could land somebody that didn’t have injury question marks all over him, like when some of us (myself included) were wishing for Brand, and right now regarding our fascination with Boozer.

I’ve thought that kamen could fit in on the team, too, but again, injury question marks. NBA reality is that big men in the game are frequently hurt, and since there’s less of them (quality players, at least) that proportion seems to be higher then at the other positions. Off the top of my head, i’m having a hard time coming up with one legit big man with no history of injuries. KG and Duncan are both out right now, too, and they were/are the example of durability. Sheed’s had good health, but his antics seem to make up for that (and he had the plantar faciaitis and back problems since he’s been with us, too). Not sure an injury free, quality big exists.

For the record, I still am up for Brand…

I can name Dwight Howard, too. That’s all I can think of off the top of my head. I was gonna say Bosh, but he’s been dinged up a few times. It’s a short, exclusive list.

Kind of makes you appreciate guys like Karl Malone and Tim Duncan for their durability, despite the fact that they routinely smash guys every other night.

I always loved Karl Malone, if only because I could buy a Starter jersey, it would say K. Malone on the back, and it was like it was printed with my name on it. The Jazz were pretty much my Team B during Detroit’s awful years.
And I’ve hated Chuck Person for years after he called out Karl Malone’s manhood in an interview probably almost 20 years ago. It’s like Rasual Butler calling out Kevin Garnett.

I really hope this move works out for the team. It needed to be done if only because having your best player come off the bench makes no sense. Lets hope Iverson embraces the role of designated scorer with the reserves. May be he can better “be A.I.” with guys who defer to him.

Or Iverson could throw a shit fit.

It seems as if I was just wasting my keyboard breath last night. SMH As far as the move, it’s not that its necessarily a bad one, but why it was made. Why does MCIAFI say he’s been planning on making it for quite some time now but it takes a player complaining outright to pull the trigger. Curry is like a pinball bouncing around in a machine that has infinetely high score.

I feel like Moses Malone circa 1979 could be the piece we need to put us over the top. Now does anyone have a spare flux capacitor?

No, dstern, you’re cool. There’s actually a FRED CAPEL appearance in that June thread that made me laugh.

@Joel:
Mine broke on my last bang-Audrey-Hepburn-in-her-prime trip.

@David Stern:
Yeah, I was surprised at how ugly this thread got this morning after our reaching-across-the-aisle last night. It would be healthy for us all if we just ignored Petey and Brad…

AI might mail it in early. I have a feeling this might be too hard for except under these circumstances. Had this been a winning team with a specifically designed role in which he comes off the bench, with a coach who actually has a set a cojones who knows the difference between his head and his ass, he MIGHT be able to except something like this mid-season. I’d personally play my ass off if for nothing else a contract this offseason, but unfortunately I wouldn’t be surprised if this back issue bothers him for remainder of the season.

Yeah, this entire season has basically been as mishandled and mismanaged is was feasibly possible. There’s absolutely no reason we shouldn’t have won 50 games with this squad, and that I think falls squarely on the coaching staff.

@MP

So that means you’ve been banging my daughter… time travel is carazay!

wink

Mike Payne – Dude… Why are you picking on me? I try and at least bring facts to the table.

Psh! Facts?! Boooooooooooo!

So the Celtics officially add Stephon “the camcer” Marbury to their roster, meanwhile we relegate ours to the bench. Maybe we have a chance during that 1st round match up after all if the seeding ends up right.

*cancer

Facts have no place on internet message boards of any kind!

Ladies and gentlemen, may I introduce, The Spin Zone:
http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons.html

…Langlois’s new article on the AI to the bench move is actually a generally good one, with much less “Hey everything is doing just great, shut up you people that don’t understand the joys of financial flexibility!” than usual. But, it’s still a little hard to swallow after literally MONTHS of fan scoldings by the pistons media: “AI off the bench? Are you crazy, he’s a Superstar!!?!” I guess there should be some joy in having been right all along, but with something this stupidly obvious, it’s more just a feeling of embarrassment that the people in charge of the stones could be so damn stupid.

very well written article by langlois… i hope allen understands some of the points he made