On Salvaging the Season

“His legacy is at stake, so he’s got nothing to lose.”

…Oh, I get it. Took me a second.

I don’t understand why it takes this article to figure it out. I was yelling and screaming months ago saying AI should come off the bench and run with our young guys. To me, it made perfect sense. AI can do all the dribbling(or non dribbling) shooting off balanced crap he wants with our reserves. Yet, MC and A lot of other people did not agree. I have been yelling that AI is a black hole. Everybody stands around when he is in..NO MOVEMENT! Fundamentals went away!! I have always liked AI…until he came to my Pistons! He is not a good fit here! He needs to go!

You’re preaching to the choir, Kevin.

Fun article. Makes me wanna break out the NES emulator.

Stuckey… I think everybody on here was pretty much saying the same thing save 3 or 4 people.

You know, I’m actually disappointed that AI is out for the Celtics game. I really think this could potentially right two of our wrongs. MCIAFI will still be AFI and randomly do stupid things like randomly have a month where McDyess plays the most minutes since the last time his knee exploded, or move Tay to power forward, or be completely unable to utilize Amir and Maxiell effectively in the same game, or, of course, eat at an Italian restaurant and ask his tailor to make a suit out of it, or rent Mama Mia!, or ask Petey his opinion on something, etc…

But the AI situation could work out better at least…

$50 says Curry finds a way to screw this up once AI is back.

Also, don’t you know that you can’t bring a future HOFer off the bench? It’s in the rulebook!

I love Tetris and agree with the analogy (although as others have said, I think most folks here have thought that AI should come off the bench for some time).

But whatever happens with AI, it’s not the only problem piece of the puzzle. I don’t know how to make this into a Tetris analogy, but unless Detroit gets consistently good play from several front court players, we’re still not going anywhere in the playoffs. We can’t play ‘Sheed, Tay, and ’Dyess 40 minutes a game and expect them to be effective down the stretch and in the playoffs. That’s the lesson of the last 2-3 seasons, when we had Chauncey.

We need at least two of the Maxy/Amir/Kwame group, and at least one of the Herrmann/Afflao group to step up. Maxy has been pretty good lately, but the rest have been inconsistent at best — when Curry plays them. I’m hoping AI coming off the bench will help them, in that he will be the main scorer in a group that doesn’t seem to have a lot of offensive skills.

In short, figuring out where to put AI is a necessary but not sufficient part of solving the puzzle. We have to position the other guys on the bench correctly too.

And hope for the best, because the Cavs and Celtics are really, really good this year.

That’s what I was waiting to hear! I hope Michael Curry reads this blog.

AI really needs to come off the bench. I think we play our best ball when he is not on the floor. He knows he doesn’t fit in, and all the other players can’t fit him in. Make that “s” piece 11 blocks long, and it won’t fit anywhere — I think that may be a better way to describe it.

I just loved that Magic game last night w/o AI. It was beautiful. He would be good to come off the bench and be a mentor to our other bench players…

I know this is off topic , but read on here somewhere in the last couple of day that Detroit has 5 picks in the 1st and second round of the draft this year , is that right ? And do we have a second no 1 from somebody just wondering if anyone knows .

toledo joe. amir and kwame can’t contribute if they do not play. curry has ridden mcdyess like a central park carrige horse….while losing game after game. go figure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg_V1_3t04g

Defor, the Pistons have their first and second round picks, plus Minnesota and Toronto’s second round picks.

I think they also have Toronto’s second round pick the year after as well.

I doubt very seriously that the midget will ever add anything of net positive value on the court as a Pistons player.

Sit him for the rest of the year or limit his minutes to 10 a game in the first half maximum.

I doubt very seriously that Mike will ever add anything of net positive value on DBB without 1) a prejudicial slur and 2) a declarative statement.

TRADE AMIRDYESSSTUCKEYIVERSONFLIPsMOMJESUSMYFAVORITEPUPPYANDMICHAELCURRYSBESTSUITNOW!

How do the pistons salvage the season? Curry has to step up and be a man. He needs a mean streak. I want to see him get up in anyone’s face who fucks around during a game. That’s what the Pistons need. Someone to give them a harsh reality check. If I were 6’7" 200+ pounds I’d do it myself, but I’m not, so Curry’s our best bet. This season rides solely on Curry.

TRADE AMIRDYESSSTUCKEYIVERSONFLIPsMOMJESUSMYFAVORITEPUPPYANDMICHAELCUR…

I agree, Mike. It’s about time we traded Flip’s mom.

She brings absolutely nothing to the table…

…except delicious cookies and homemade pies!

What!? Trade everyone?

No way, not while we got a winning streak goin.
Go Stones!!! Get that ’ship!!!

curry needs to ride dyess harder. that will turn things around. give the young bigs a break for chrissakes!

seriously.    curry needs to
         1. play amir, kwame, and max.
         2. bring iverson in to lead a second unit with high energy personality.
     and then give this idea as much of a chance as he has given his crackpot small ball, rip off the bench, and ride dyess hard schemes.

We need at least two of the Maxy/Amir/Kwame group, and at least one of the Herrmann/Afflao group to step up.

Agreed, but it’s unfair to ask them to play consistently when their minutes are sporadic at best and nil at worst.

Can MCIAFI seriously expect Amir at 21 years old to play consistently when this is the first season he’s ever had any time to develop? If he is going to be develop into a consistent player, he needs secure playing time, i.e., time to play through his mistakes rather than getting benched because of them .

Fascinating Stat of the Day:

The Pistons are now 11 – 2 (85%) when either Hamilton or Iverson is not in uniform.

We’re 5 – 0 when Iverson doesn’t dress, and 6 – 2 when Hamilton doesn’t dress.

Of course, that means we’re 17 – 27 (39%) when both players are in uniform…

A few years from now, we’ll have a far better idea if Stuckey was worth tossing away this season. My bet is that the answer will be no, that Stuckey projects out to being a pretty average NBA player, but projecting player development for youngsters is a notoriously inexact science.

But regardless of the merits of the decision, no one should be confused that tossing away this season for Stuckey is exactly what has transpired. And this season (post-trade) had no small amount of potential.

I don’t think you abandon a talented veteran squad trying to integrate a talented new player after trying for just 15 games. But, hey, Detroit loves losers and Joey D loves developing a player who he thinks resembles himself, so in a weird way, it should work out for all concerned. Basketball seems more interesting to me when teams are trying to win, but I guess there are other priorities here.

@brgulker:
I think Curry is a perfect example of a former athlete (but now a coach) who can’t separate his own experience from how he views other players. What I mean is, Curry sees Amir make a dumb mistake and his first thought is, “When I made dumb mistakes, Doug Collins yanked me out of the game. So, that’s what I have to do with Amir.”

Here’s what Curry doesn’t consider: Amir is a 21 year old NBA player, he’s obviously not without serious flaws, but with a player that young it’s better to focus on the positives while keeping an eye on the negatives. And what should be the good news is, Amir should have a pretty big “positive” held in his favor: we’ve been way better defensively with him on the court (http://www.82games.com/0809/08DET11.HTM#onoff).

The other thing Curry doesn’t consider: He himself didn’t fully break into the NBA until he was 27. A Mistake by a limited, 27 year old, role-playing defensive SF journeymen, should be handled differently than the mistakes of a 21 year old PF with at least decent potential (who has already shown he can help on the court).

…and please, please, please, please:

NOBODY BOTHER TO BE BAITED BY PETEY!!! IT’S A WASTE OF YOUR TIME! I PROMISE!

“we’ll have a far better idea if Stuckey was worth tossing away this season. My bet is that the answer will be no”

Ahh interesting. Thanks for clarifying that. I look forward to you repeating it again on every other thread for the rest of the season.

huh.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stuckro01.html
Stuckey’s middle name is Norvell. That’s kinda awesome.

Who needs a nickname when you have a middle name like that?

Norvell it is.

Petey,

You don’t think that bringing AI off the bench IS the best way to integrate him with the rest of the team? It sure looks that way to me. Like Kevin wrote, it isn’t perfect, but it makes enough sense that it is at least worth a try.

my GF and I are chuckling over trying to decide what the proper way to pronounce “Norvell” is. Is it a strongish ‘e’ like in “velcro” or “shell,” or is it softer, and said more like “NOR-vil?”

Gabe – “NOBODY BOTHER TO BE BAITED BY PETEY!!! IT’S A WASTE OF YOUR TIME! I PROMISE!”

Spot on… we should form a union of non-responders.

Norv-Ell… Sounds like Kal-El’s second cousin.

Or, if you prefer Marvel Comics, Captain Mar-Vell’s nephew.

Wow I’m nerdy.

norvell backwords is llevron… shorten to levron= mini-lebron?

“You don’t think that bringing AI off the bench IS the best way to integrate him with the rest of the team?”

If it had been done in December, perhaps. Back in the good old days, I averred that it didn’t matter who started and who didn’t as long as the rotations made sense.

At this point, I don’t think it matters what is done. The window to get players comfortable with the gameplan before the playoffs started is long since past. We passed the point of no return about a month ago.

But to return to the halcyon days of December, while I didn’t think it mattered who started, I did think the decision to put the ball in Stuckey’s hands mattered a lot. That decision forced all the other decisions, and tossed this season down the drain.

As I kept saying back then, playing Iverson off the ball turns him into an average player at very best.

“Stuckey’s middle name is Norvell. That’s kinda awesome.”

No doubt.

And FWIW, I’m not anti-Stuckey. I just think he turns out to be a pretty average NBA player a few years down the line. There’s nothing wrong with average NBA players, and there is nothing wrong with a team wanting to develop them.

My only issue here is that you don’t toss away a season with a group of talented vets who could conceivably go all the way without a damn good reason. And accelerating Norvell’s development ain’t a damn good reason.

Only going for 15 games with Iverson at point just wasn’t a real attempt to make a difficult transition work before the towel was thrown in.

Interesting Day Association-Wide:

Midnight is the deadline for buyouts. I assume Iverson and Wallace stay put in Detroit, even if I wish it weren’t the case.

But there are a bunch of other names being talked about for buyouts, including Joe Smith, Drew Gooden, Shawn Marion, and some other mystery ‘blockbuster’ name.

Detroit obviously is not going to be signing anyone due to the tax threshold, but it should be an interesting day league wide…

Petey – “At this point, I don’t think it matters what is done.”

Agreed. The die is cast so let’s just enjoy watching Pistons basketball. Maybe AI will embrace the 6th man role, maybe Curry will improve his rotations, maybe ’Sheed will focus, maybe Tay and Rip will see the writing on the wall and become leaders, maybe ’Dyess will enjoy playing 39 minutes a game, maybe Stuckey will get his second wind. Grab some popcorn and have fun.

Any word on when AI’s coming back? I know I predicted it might be never, but a bigger part of me hopes this team can get on a hot streak and then find a way in integrate in him to the mix. I guess I’m really asking if anyone heard any status of his injury/tests.

“Agreed. The die is cast so let’s just enjoy watching Pistons basketball … Grab some popcorn and have fun.”

No doubt.

The TiVo is already fired up for this afternoon. And with the exception of the blowout against Cleveland, I actually thought the 8 game losing streak was comprised of good popcorn games.

“Maybe AI will embrace the 6th man role, maybe Curry will improve his rotations, maybe ‘Sheed will focus, maybe Tay and Rip will see the writing on the wall and become leaders, maybe ‘Dyess will enjoy playing 39 minutes a game, maybe Stuckey will get his second wind.”

The problem is that, as they say in screenwriting, the stakes are gone.

Even if everything were to play out PERFECTLY, there is no longer any hope of stealing a title. So while the games may still be well worth watching, the narrative of the season as a whole is no longer particularly interesting.

The wheels came off back in January.

Petey:

First, it’s not just “15 games,” it’s (i) the fact that Detroit had its worst losing streak in over a decade within those 15 games, and (ii) the season as a whole, with AI starting, has been a disaster.

Second, Detroit fans probably don’t mind some sacrifice to develop a player for the future, since nothing like that has happened here since . . ., well, certainly not since the ‘04 championship, unless you want to count the Darko disaster, and frankly, he never got serious minutes here. The whole problem with Detroit since the championship is that nobody has been developed. Heck, this year, while they are trying to develop Stuckey, they still aren’t giving Maxiell, Amir, and Afflalo the time they need (you might add Herrmann there too, and if you’re being super-generous, Kwame).

Third, Stuckey seemed to force the hand of Pistons management by playing so well in the first part of the season. Remember him dropping 40 on the Bulls? His recent slump makes us question that, but at the time it seemed like a bad idea to sit him.

Fourth, sure, you’re right that it may be too late now to find a winning set of rotations. But everything else we’ve tried (short of Rip or AI being injured) hasn’t worked.

Fifth, again, this isn’t all on AI. I’m actually optimistic that he will be an effective scorer off the bench. At this point, I’m more concerned about the rest of the bench, especially the front court players, being productive so we can score when we rest the starters and not play the starters 40+ minutes a game.

Finally, yeah, I understand that it’s at least partly Curry’s fault that the bench guys haven’t been better. But they need to step up if/when he uses them.

Petey:

Well, the problem with the narrative for this season is that there is now no realistic way the Pistons wouldn’t have to play BOTH the Cavs and Celts in the playoffs, and it’s hard to see how even a New & Improved version of this years team can accomplish that. You think a better-used AI from the beginning might have meant a very different path; I think AI coming off the bench a couple of months ago might have helped but Detroit would still need more from backup frontcourt players; we probably both agree that MCIAFI.

“it’s not just "15 games," it’s (i) the fact that Detroit had its worst losing streak in over a decade within those 15 games”

FWIW, the “15 games” I’m talking about is not recent. The “15 games” was the stretch from Nov 7 to Dec 7, after Iverson came over and before Stuckey was named a starter and designated as the one and only point guard.

We were 7 – 8 in that stretch of 15 games, and obviously had major issues to work out. But we beat the Lakers, Spurs, and Cavs, and we seemed to be experimenting with various roles and rotations that had the potential to compete with the elite in a seven game playoff series.

I’ve been all about Iverson off the bench for a while now.

Afflalo compliments him perfectly at the other guard spot. With the zoo crew, AI can just drive the lane all day.