Also, even if we don’t think AI is a high-integrity, put the team first kind of guy, isn’t it pretty obvious that if he wants a decent contract with anyone next year, it’s in his personal/financial best interest to try to help Detroit this year, even if it means coming off the bench?

+1 Toledo Joe. It would seem to me he’s playing for a “spot” on a team next next, as in “spot” on a contender. And I beleive any contender is going to have him come off the bench. If they truly are a “contender” they just need a missing piece and won’t change their entire offense for him.

It would seem to me he should take the medicine, come off the bench and get paid 7-10M a next season from a contender. And it probably won’t be even that much. We are about to see the biggest payday hits in the history of sports between two men, AI & Starbury. After making a 20M a peice this year, they’ll be lucky to crack 10M combined next year. And I just don’t understand it. Somebody in AI’s posse needs to speak some truth to the guy.

I want to give AI the benefit of the doubt, but it all seems a little odd considering the timing. McCoskey also notes that he took a MRI that came back clean and was cleared by a specialist in Detroit, so why would he need a 3rd opinion?

DNP-Bruised Ego

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Well, from AI’s perspective it probably doesn’t look good. You miss two games and your team looks like it’s playing better and you beat 2 outta top 3 teams in the east record wise.

Simple fact is he’s pissed and seeing his earning power for next year on it’s way down. I really think he could clean up against other teams 2nd unit guys and he could make good money doing it. Time for that walk the talk moment and I think he’s having a hard time doing it. It was easier to mouth the platitudes when you knew you weren’t being thought about as a 6th man because Rip stepped up. Now, not so much.

When the team discarded AI like a piece of garbage, Petey shed a tear

/really hoping you clowns remember the crying indian commercials asking to not litter

I’d be shocked if this is anything more than a second opinion but it’s good fortune for all parties involved that AI is going to miss the Nuggets/Pistons rematch with Billups making a return to Detroit. Nobody needs all that drama and I’m sure AI coming back to a 6th man role in the middle of (hopefully) a 3 game winning streak will keep the focus in the future where it should be, on winning, and not the telenovela stuff.

I’m an AI hater as much as the next person, but the last two games i didnt see that much of difference of our play. The only difference is that our shots actually went down this time. We had a little more ball movement and Sheed actually posted up a few more times. But overall the biggest change I saw was a little more effort and energy more than personel.

Before we’re too certain that all this is going down as fact, let’s keep in mind who’s reporting it…

Right. I still hope that AI can be a contributing member of our team. I think that if he were to run with our second unit, everyone would benefit. AI would look like a team player while having an offense run through him and the starters would flow nicely together.

It would also be good for AI’s banged up body to slow it down a bit, especially if he wants to play a few more years at a fairly high level. I’m just saying.

Also, Shaq calls Future Piston Chris Bosh the RuPaul of big men? Zing!

Check this out. It appears the Pistons might be setting things up for the midget to sit for quite and while and see what happens without him.

=====
Pistons wait to know extent of Iverson’s injury

1 hour, 31 minutes ago

DETROIT (AP)—The Detroit Pistons expect to find out how serious Allen Iverson’s back injury is later this week.

Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars said Monday the team will know more about Iverson’s status on Wednesday after he is examined by doctors at Georgetown, where he starred in college

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;ylt=AmGmnNlQeHVJFBB_bTWmOu8vLYF?slug=ap-pistons-iverson&prov=ap&type=lgns

corr:

should have said: sit for quite a while

I think it’s just another case of “benchitis.” Amir has had it for a week or so.

How will we ever win without him?

Just want everyone to know that Hollinger has us ranked ahead of the Bucks in his Power Rankings. Boo Yah!

@Dee:
Look at the scoring differentials between Detroit’s back court and our competitors back courts in the last two games.

Against Boston: 35:18
Against Orlando: 53:25

It wasn’t just our offense, our backcourt defense improved by leaps and bounds without AI.

AI was not worth it!!!! I have no idea what the Pistons were looking at before the picked him up! When we gave CHAUNCEY BILLUPS to the Nuggets they got an amazing 18.5 ppg point guard!!! While in return we only got a 18 ppg point guard. Now…. Despite the fact that AI gets 2 more rebounds per game he wanted 20,840,625$ compared to Chauncey only being $12,375,000. I personally think that the move we made for AI wasn’t worth it. We beat the best teams in the league…. WITHOUT HIM!

Look at that. Statistics confirm common sense.

I second joejoejoe’s comment. It makes sense for AI to sit out the Denver game in light of all the drama. I mean, in AI’s first game off the bench, do we really want him booed louder than Chauncey gets cheered?

Kind of random, but around the trade deadline when OKC brought in Chandler I wrote that they would love having Afflalo about that time. They ended up bringing in Sefolosha, defensive specialist, not as good of a shooter, a little more athletic, for a first rounder and played him 30 minutes a night right off the bat. Really makes me wonder of Joe D. might have gotten an offer from them for AA that Joe turned down…

Sixth place!

Someone has likely said it first, but here goes…

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57641/20090302/knicks_sign_cheikh_samb_to_10_day_contract/

“I’m an AI hater as much as the next person, but the last two games i didnt see that much of difference of our play. The only difference is that our shots actually went down this time.”

Which is kind of a big deal in the NBA, where in only the shots that go down count as points. Our shots went down because we were taking open shots. Boston couldn’t play zone because Rip (and Herrmann) could create a mismatch for the jump shot.

“We had a little more ball movement”

You seriously can’t draw a line between Iverson’s absence and this development?

“and Sheed actually posted up a few more times.”

Sheed is 6-18 from two-point range over the last two. You think that is a positive?

“But overall the biggest change I saw was a little more effort and energy more than personel.”

So, you saw effort and energy, but not from the personnel?

not sure if this was posted yet but….
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2694528

• Dec. 6, 2006: Iverson heads to the locker room for the fourth quarter of a 121-94 loss to the Chicago Bulls. The reason given for his leaving the game is back spasms.

• Dec. 8, 2006: Iverson is told by the team not to attend that night’s game against Washington. Iverson releases a statement that reads in part, “As hard as it is to admit, a change may be the best thing for everyone.” Ed Snider, the chairman of Comcast-Spectacor, the team’s owners, says Iverson will be traded and has likely played his last game as a Sixer.

NO!!!!!!!! HORRIBLE MEMORIES!! STOPP!!!!!!! deja vu… my soul is as lost as AI’s right now

While I’m reminiscing with different throwback AI videos online here I happened to stumble across one on his return to Philly last March. I was at that game behind Denver’s bench was fortunate enough to give him a high five by the tunnel on his way out to the court. It was absolutely electric in the Wachovia Center when they introduced him, and it will be a day I never forget. It was one of those special moments where millions of memories, highlights, and thoughts raced through my head. Hell, I’ll stop talking because honestly words can’t do any justice anyway, but I’d just like to say to all the Pistons’ fans out there whether you’re at the Palace or watching at home on TV: Enjoy! Don’t be afraid to shed a tear or two. You, and Chauncey both deserve it. It will be something you will cherish the rest of your life!

“Obviously, the most interesting part of this equation is the absence of Allen Iverson from both victories, as the other Pistons seemed to seamlessly revert to their playing style of a season ago in his absence. Detroit apparently will bring him off the bench the remainder of the season, and given the glaring disparity in its record with Richard Hamilton as a starter versus when he comes off the bench, that’s the only reasonable move left at this point.I should hasten to point out, however, that this says as much about the Pistons as it does about Iverson. He’s a terrible fit as long as they want to grind out wins in the halfcourt and essentially play exactly the same way as they did with Chauncey Billups at the point, and Tuesday’s meeting in Denver should only underscore that point. The Nuggets adjusted their playing style completely when Billups arrived; the Pistons didn’t change at all. "

This is a quote from john hollinger over at ESPN talking about the situation, and while i traditionally dont agree with him on much, i believe he has hit the nail on the head with this one. and this in my opinion falls directly on the coaching staff. when you aquire a new player, especially one as significant as iverson, you must change something up. he tried to play the way the coaches told him too, but it didnt work. and more importantly he didnt ask to be traded here and when a team trades for him, they should be expected to adapt somewhat to his strengths…. im not trying to play the name game but this is just my 2 cents

Looks like the odds just got better to win 3 in a row

@david stern:

I am still considering going to the game tonight. Might pick up some tickets at stubhub this afternoon and shoot our of work early for a few pops at the post beforehand. Anyone else thinking of/going to the game tonight?

Maye I’ll see AI at the airport… If I do I’ll tell him to suck it up, and be the best damn 6th man this league has ever seen.

he definitely has plenty of motivation to make his sixth man role work. he’s playing for a contract, and as much as he’ll resent it, this is still the best team he’s ever played on, and likely the best chance he’ll ever have to win a championship.

will iverson realize this situation and do all he can to take advantage of it? or are even the prospects of rings and future employment not enough to get him over his own grossly inflated sense of his own abilities? since i don’t think we’re getting a ring either way, i’ll enjoy either outcome.

Man my nigga Allen Iverson misses one more game thats messed up to me he’s really tha heart of that team u can compare him to an cell he is tha nucleus(he controls tha activity of tha team) he’s tha best.

Alternatively, AI could be injured…I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now

I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. I think from his perspective, he might be thinking he lost the starting gig because of injury and this is why Mc should have done this move a long time ago. Plus, given the results of the last two games, what’s he gonna say in the short term?

I would like to think that once he makes it back that he really embraces the 6th man idea and then totally goes off. His future in the NBA is a 6th man spark plug, kinda like Robinson for the Knicks. And the sooner AI understands and accepts that’s his role for the foreseeable future in the NBA, he would probably have his pick of who he’d play for, all else being equal.

Right now this is about AI, the Pistons and this season. The Pistons will move forward this summer regardless. The sooner AI accepts the degradation of his skills at his age, decides he’ll put just as much work into being a 6th man as he did being an MVP 7 years ago and determines exactly how much a chip is worth to him, then we’ll know whether his talk is talk or his talk is his walk.

Again, he’s living in fantasy land if he thinks at this stage of his career he can command his asking price, whatever that is. Even without the meltdown and salary cap reduction, he was looking at taking a sizeable salary cut. He might as well take the cut and play for a chip, because as 6th man on a chip squad he will more than have ample opportunity to contribute if he so chooses.

Making decisions based on two games strikes me as crazy.

Stuckey dropped 18.6 a game when Rip was hurt. The team went 6-2 in that stretch including wins against Orlando and at a Carmelo-less Nuggets. The starting Orlando backcourt that night of Jameer Nelson and Keith Bogans (which can’t be any worse than Courtney Lee and Rafer Alston) had 16 points on 6-16 shooting back in December against us. As a team, we held Orlando to 40% from the field (as opposed to 47% the other day).

Also, AI had 2 absolutely fantastic games (which we won) when Stuckey was all dizzy and whatnot. Should that be the end all be all that Rip and AI should be the focal points? To me, it’s either the fault of all 3 guards or the fault of none of the guards.

We went through a rough patch with AI and now we’re seemingly going through a nice patch without him. We went through a nice patch without Hamilton and now we’re going through a nice one with him. We’re 6-2 when Rip is out, 2-1 when AI is out and 2-0 when Stuckey is out for a grand total of 10-3 with one of the three out. Maybe that says more than anything.

The difference between the last two games and the stretch earlier without Rip is the ball movement. The ball movement, off-the-ball movement, and offensive “crispness” in general in the last two games is BY FAR the best it’s been all season. We had, what, 24 assists and like 6 turnovers in the Boston game? The last two games are we should/would have been playing all season if we hadn’t had literally the most disruptive offensive player of all time fucking up our starting lineup. That’s why we’re making decisions based on two games— we beat 2 of the 3 beasts of the East on their own floors, playing old-school Dee-troit basketball. It’s just said that it takes AI not being there for that to happen, but then again that’s why he’s on the bench the rest of the year.

*sad

LB: I don’t think anyone is making blanket statements after two games. If they are, they’re idiots. But, we sure did look better, then again recent memory is always more crisp.

However, we did move the ball better, the spacing both on offense and defense was better, even PP & Rivers pointed out these things. It’s one thing to guard your guy and think you’ll have to help on D. It’s another to guard your guy and out of the corner of your eye look at AI’s man because he’s the weak link and on a more than even basis he’s the guy you gotta help. And that’s just human nature when it comes to B-ball, nothing personal meant against AI.

Our offense isn’t designed for AI to dribble out the clock, deform the defense and then shoot an off balance leaning one foot on the ground runner across the key or kick it out. So while we’re standing around trying to ascertain if AI “has it going tonite” the others stand and watch, which invariably leads to a slow start and lack of enthusiasm, particularly on the D end. This is a move that should have been made long ago, not only for this year but for years down the road in terms of getting Stuck prepared and knowing/evaluating what other players brought to the table over the course of the season with consistent minutes.

At the end of the day, it’s time to cut bait and get it going rather than “we’re still trying to find out who we are and integrating everyone in” approach.

I hope AI’s agent has a realistic grasp of where Allen is at this point, because he might be the only one that can look him in the eye and say: “You need to come off the bench and be wildly productive so that you can get one last contract.”

I hope AI’s agent has a realistic grasp of where Allen is at this point, because he might be the only one that can look him in the eye and say: “You need to come off the bench and be wildly productive so that you can get one last contract.”

Yup, that’s right, he should probably say it twice. Whoops, double post.

LB,

Two games is early and it’s not clear that it’s AI more so than just a guard logjam. I would note that When we went without Rip earlier in the season, that was during the smallball experiment. I think you have to credit a lot of the improvement merely to having a normal line-up. Since we moved on from smallball, Stuckey started deteriorating pretty severely. IMHO, that happened because he played alot of his minutes with AI. Therefore, I think it makes sense for Ai to come off the bench and to limit his minutes with Stuckey. Also, I’ve wanted him off the bench since the beginning so these last two game are just confirming what I thought.

PDX: No need to apologize. I do think his agent is going to have to say it at LEAST twice, if not alot more. lol

Melo’s out tonight:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3947281

Yay.

Yeah, LB, it says AI can fuck off. No matter if it’s a win or a loss … every game with him in it is a fucking insufferable Pistons mess to watch. He’s like Nixon. Joe traded for the black Tricky Dick.

In a perfect world, with good coaching and gameplans, AI off the bench could be LETHAL and make us legitimate contenders this year. Unfortunately our guys are back to coaching themselves (like the last 3 years). But could you imagine if we’d had a real coach this whole season? AI truly is an incredible talent— that’s not even debatable. We just needed a real coach with real balls to show/tell/make him do just what we need him to do— go gangbusters on other teams’ second units. There’s no reason he shouldn’t be averaging 20ppg off the bench. And if he’s mature about it, and serious about winning games, we could have a pretty special last 1/4 of the season.

so who’s going tonight?

Don’t try to put the blame on AI the team won when rip and Raseed were missing. The problem is the coach it is evident to anyone that is knowledgeable about the game. He does not know his players well when to rest them. They have lost to many close games that should have won to lesser quality teams. Stuckey had one good scoring game and that was it he is not ready, all AI did is played the way he was instructed and that was clear. Not to mention some of the decisions that were being made at the end of games. You coach during pratice and manage during the game.

@jw:
“Stuckey had one good scoring game and that was it”

Which one, the 40 point game or the 38 point game?

I bet against. All of this “suppose he comes off the bench and makes us awesome” is asking one of the most stubborn assholes of all time to do something akin to sucking raw eggs. He’s a STAR, ladies and gentlemen! STARS DON’T SIT ON THE BENCH AND BE THE 6TH MAN! SUPASTAH!!! MEL FARR CERTIFIED!!!

If Iverson does make the change and be the fit, then he left no indication that he was capable of such behavior over the last 883 games he played. In other words, I’m not holding my breath.

You’re assuming that this guy would come in when teams are subbing their own bench, too, and just dominate against the 2nd tier for the good of the TEAM. We’re talking about ALLEN IVERSON, not a TEAM. ALLEN IVERSON, not a TEAM. I mean, ALLEN IVERSON, this isn’t some TEAM we’re talking about … ALLEN IVERSON.

Sauce: that of which you speak is true. But, if AI wants to make any more money, he’ll have to adjust. I’m not saying he wants to make any more money, but looking at the top 8 in each conference, where would he go to where they would turn their offensive philosophy to meet his play?

Sure, I think he might be able to make a few million more playing on a sub .500 team (wait, that could be us) and put fans in the seat. So OK, his wanting a chip and willing to do what’s necessary was all talk. Glad we got that outta the way. But his big paydays and teams fitting to him are over. Everyone here knows that as does the vast bulk of the NBA I would imagine, it’s only Iverson who’s unwilling to change. But money does funny things to people and the way he handles this move to 6th man I have no doubt will affect many GMs who might be thinking about him.

The days of giving AI the ball and everyone else moving out of the way are over. Have been over. And ain’t coming back.

MarkButter, it’s easier for him to beg out with a bad back, leave Detroit, poison the well, salt the field, and burn bridges with personal recollection of how Auburn Hills was the worst environment he’s ever been in, that his teammates were all pumpkins, the coach is an idiot, blah blah … and ESPN will report it every hour all summer when mentioning the Pistons, and the people (read: idiot masses) will believe Allen Iverson.

Also, Allen will get paid a lesser sum for one year on some rat-club, get them to a 1st round exit, then get a 4 year deal re-upping for near the max. Why? Because the league is filled with more awful GMs than I’ve seen in any other pro league.

Fuck him, his fan nation, this league, and David Stern.

Has anyone found a working link yet?

Sauce: try decaf.

I agree, AI isn’t going to get a max, near max or even “I can see max” from here contract. I think AI’s reputation, such as it is with teammates and practices, is already bronzed. My only fear is him talking smack this summer and hurting our chances to land a FA because MCIAFI, only more so if you’re part of the locker room with him is what AI will say.

This is me on sleeping pills, MarkButter. I’d probably die and come back from the grave and register FRED W. CAPEL on the Richter Scale.

In case other people aren’t getting it besides us, it really is on this guy Allen to make like Rasheed 2 and fit not on top of the team, around, alongside, with, but INTO the team. They shoulda never asked a team of guys to play his style. I don’t care if that was Mike Jordan walking through the door, you got to put your efforts into a team. So far, Allen doesn’t know the meaning of what we’re discussing.

Agreed. No the question is, besides us two getting it (lol) does AI? Because if he doesn’t I truly think his playing days are over given the new economics of the NBA.

I’d like to believe it, MarkButter, but David Stern looked the other way while Los Angeles and Boston completed one-sided deals and used every waking cent to promote Lakers vs. Celtics, Boo-Yeah Edition, while forgetting the NBA had played any seasons since Jordan left Chicago.

Someone is gonna ink this clown and extol the virtues while they’re filing for Chapter 11.

I don’t know Sauce. Isiah hasn’t been hired lately, but I do feel that the economics will outweigh any stupidity by a GM. At least it would if I was an owner.

And I also look at it a different way. Would any FA stay where he is because the GM signed AI? I hardly think so. So for those top 8 seeds in each conference, that’s a non-starter. I don’t evern think Phil J. could Zen his way thru a season with AI. But I guess we’ll see if working for a chip is really what AI is all about, as he said immediately after the trade.

MarkButter, for all we know, Joe Dumars could re-sign him here, and go on the circuit with spiel about having a year of adjustment, and now it’s his team, and then Rip gets traded for a couple of millstones in their final year plus Kevin Ollie.

I can easily see AI limping to Cleveland or Atlanta or Orlando under the exact same pretense when traded to Denver and Detroit. Superstar, best small guard in this era, speed of lightning, provides an offensive boost, can put the team in breathing distance of a championship, total awesomeness, lolz0rz.

I can’t disagree with your last paragraph. But two of those 3 having very dominating personalities on their teams that could “rein” in AI (like that’d be possible).

I truly believe that how AI handles this transition will determine to a large extent who and how much he gets paid next season. If he wants to be a reincarnate of the Microwave, then he’ll have his pick. If not, he’s an overseas casualty. I’m not disparging him, but for once in his life this is more about his character than it is his talent. I don’t think he’s ever been presented such a circumstance, so it will be interesting. And at the end of the day, the fans here for once in his career aren’t screaming for him to play because he’s on a winning (or what should be) team. He has no leverage other than to take his ball and go home.

He’s also not used to playing with real players. Big difference between Rodney Stuckey and Kevin Ollie … huge difference between Rip Hamilton and Aaron McKie, et cetera. When you have virtual non-factors on offense, like the Michael Currys and Bruce Bowens of the world, sharing shots isn’t an issue because you never want them shooting it. AI, for most of his career, has thrived when 2-3 of the ‘starters’ are like that. He takes their porridge in terms of shots. They get his back.

I fuckin’ hate that kind of basketball. And I’m not concerned at disparaging him in the slightest. For the amount of disrespect ‘team’ basketball gets around the world, I could give a fuckall about superstars.

@ Sean

I ended up going. Tickets at Stubhub/TicketStumbler/TicketsNow are fifty cents on the dollar!

The one nice thing about the recession…

Ai is still a nasty street ball player that has young legs
And he’s still quick comming off the bench are you crazy yea
he’s getting older but who can stop him ha ha