Allen Iverson will miss (at least) 2 weeks

Why am I not surprised that it took AI three shots at a doctors visit to get one that counts?

It is possible that Iverson has been playing hurt for a few weeks, and should have taken some time off a while ago. I personally think that he is actually hurt. However, I also think that he would try to play through it if he was still in the starting lineup. It’s just that the reasons for playing through it, namely pride and the (perceived) burden of being the team’s primary scorer, were taken away when the bench move was announced.

Well, you have to wonder why he hasn’t made some kind of announcement or had a minute with the press, if this is legitimate. Only thing worse than being injured is people thinking you’re faking it to pout. Unless, of course, you’re really pouting.

That name Allen Iverson where have I heard that before.

Who’s actually surprised by this? Most of us could see this coming a mile away.

Let’s see…one of the so-called toughest players in the league gets demoted and all of a sudden his back is too bad to play for the foreseeable future? I’d say it’s a foregone conclusion the Pistons aren’t going to see the midget in the red, white and blue again. Iverson could at least man-up and give an interview instead of hiding behind a fabricated back injury.

What team does Iverson think he’s going to start on next year? I can’t think of a team that is going to go out of it’s way to pay him a ton of money to screw up their starting lineup. He needs to grow up and accept his role as AI the backup. I’m just mad the Pistons are still paying this spoiled child at this point.

Exactly right Jim.

Go walk into any doctors office in America and complain of back pain. They’ll tell you to rest two weeks.

So why did A.I. have to go to D.C. to get that “diagnosis?”

The M.R.I. was negative. A.I. is fine. Bruised and sore maybe, but fine.

He’s done for the year. Guaranteed.

Why did A.I.Did A.I. just walk into a free health care clinic on the street in D.C.?

The advice to “rest two weeks” is exactly what my doctor would tell me if I walked in with back pain.

Ignore that last post, I don’t type so good…

Just a reprint.

Big lols. Bless you, Jim.

I tend to think he probably is hurt, but who knows. If he could accept the role of 6th man in limited minutes (easier said than done for AI, I know) I think we could be an incredibly dangerous team, but I’m not holding my breath.

AI can’t win either way with Detroit fans in this situation. If he’s hurt and plays, we’ll say he sucks. If he’s hurt and doesn’t play he’s a malingerer. I just think he’s hurt period. Iverson missed 10 or so games a year a bunch of times in his 20s. Missing 15 games at age 33 isn’t a big deal. Larry Bird’s career went poof due to back trouble at age 34 and 35. It’s not something to goof around with no matter the timing of the Rip/CB/bench drama and the rumors that we hear bubbling up. I think that’s all that is going on here, drama and bad timing. Get healed up AI and come back strong as Vinnie Johnson 2.0 and get your ring in Detroit. I’m convinced a healthy AI can defend the likes of Eddie House, Rafer Alston, and Daniel Gibson from 3 and abuse them offensively on the other end. That’s not the biggest role but it’s a need none the less. I want AI well and I want him back.

MW, you’ve been at all of the home games this season. Has AI looked injured?

Forget the Fanboys.

Where art thou Iverson?

If the Pistons keep winning, will Iverson’s back even recover this season? I’m guessing his back will recover in time for free agency.

Told ya’s a couple weeks ago he was gonna do this…

I’m really conflicted about whether or not I’d want AI to come back this year. If he could accept 20 mpg off the bench playing primarily with the second unit guys we could be a real dangerous team in the playoffs. However, I don’t think AI could ever accept that and I don’t think Curry would have the balls to only play him that much.

Iverson, is such a great player hu doesn’t deserve this kind of treatment from you all. I’ve been reading a lot of articles that Iverson spoils the Chemistry of the pistons plays, that he made his teammates disorganized by the kind of game he’s playing. On the contrary, can we also say that it’s also his teammates unwilling to play with him that caused a lot of issues inside the court while he’s playing? When Hamilton was injured, Pistons went on a 7 winning streak with AI leading them and I saw his teammates trusting him more (w/c the coach doesn’t most of the times)since Rip wasn’t there. Stuckey is not a good player. He is inconsistent and also a ball hugger. he commits more error than AI. AI creates plays w/c pistons has not exploited ever since. If his teammates only learns how to play with him, this is going to be a very dangerous team. AI will not be effective coming off the bench, but rather have him play the point and have stuckey come off the bench.If only, rip, wallace know how to play with him like mc dyess, this is a very dangerous team.

yes iverson should take the chance to lead the second unit but…notice will bynum recently? i am just psyched about the win streak. it feels good.

@Lyre:
“Pistons went on a 7 winning streak with AI leading them”

You mean when STUCKEY was leading them? During that stretch, AI had 17ppg, Stuckey had 23ppg.

I want a “Stuckey is a BALL HUGGER” t-shirt.

“If his teammates only learns how to play with him, this is going to be a very dangerous team. AI will not be effective coming off the bench, but rather have him play the point and have stuckey come off the bench.If only, rip, wallace know how to play with him like mc dyess, this is a very dangerous team.”

Did you forget that the AI/Rip backcourt failed already? And regarding the rest of the team learning to play with him, that failed too. I’ve thought the same thing for a long time. If AI starts, everyone else has to change their game. If he comes off the bench, no one has to change their game, AI only has to check his ego and change his role. I prefer the latter.

“the AI/Rip backcourt failed already”

This is true.

I Heart BALL HUGGER!

We think we’re sticking it to AI with all the criticism, but he’s the one playing us by getting paid 20 mil to relax and use up all the time of the best basketball trainer in the business in Arnie Kandler.

@Restructure_It:
I know, that poor, poor pretty princess. How does he handle it!

Joking aside, I was for this trade when it happened. I still am. I still feel that, in the right circumstance (barring MCIAFI) that this roster could be deadly. Its clear now that this roster won’t live up to its potential with Iverson on it. Fortunately, the roster WITHOUT Iverson is a 2nd rounder— which can’t be said of more than 4 teams in the East definitively.

For once in the last few months, I am PUMPED about THIS season, which is pretty exciting. I am looking forward to watching the rest of the games this season, something I can’t say was true with Iverson in the starting lineup. And should things fail, I have $20 million to be excited about this summer. Fortunately, for us Pistons fans, March has been anything BUT madness thus far…

Dang Stuckey and his ball-hugging antics!

When I was in the Army, we called these types of injuries ‘sprained heartilage’

AI might be hurt, but he needs to address the media to convince me.

We’re better off if he comes back. We all know he shouldn’t be a starter, but as is the Pistons aren’t winning a title. They might win more games if he just disappears, but the ceiling isn’t as high without him. AI off the bench would be a risk worth taking.

I love Shaq’s reaction to Van Gundy’s unnecessary comments from last night…

Van Gundy is a douche and will always be a whining douche. Lose the tshirts under the sport jacket look Van Gundy you dick

Well said AdamL. I too think if he comes back we are likely to win more games, but I still think our only shot at something special is “if it all just falls into place.” It would also help if the smoke monster from Lost ate LeBron and KG.

I didn’t want to spoil, Forty, but that’s the season finale: LeBron and KG bounce through time and are eaten by the smoke monster in 1974 after Will Bynum turns the donkey wheel because Ben said it would get him AI’s minutes.

“You’re gonna have to go the bench, Allen”

- Richard Alpert

"You’re gonna have to go the bench, Allen"

“And my buddy Joel here is gonna piss in your shoes. He’s eaten nothing but asparagus for six weeks since you’ve been losing.”

and now… a video recording from Sauce1977’s house after learning AI would be out 2 weeks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-HgBrVLv5I

@Boney:
Fucking hilarious. I was always into the more atmospheric, deeper jungle, but those break-crazed freaks can have their fun.

So, did Petey officially bow out, or is he just consulting with his doctors at Georgetown?

Wait… Bynum turned the wheel to move the Palace to protect it from Bubba Chuck Whitmore? Why did he follow Curry’s dad into there? I thought Curry’s dad was dead… I’m so confused by this season.

“So, did Petey officially bow out, or is he just consulting with his doctors at Georgetown?”

He has an indeterminate typing injury. From what I understand, he got one just before he was traded to the Nuggdoctor.

Boney, I can’t top that. Damn right!

Boney, I can’t top that. Damn right!

If Kevin S say Petey missed a game post, and ya’ll hear it, then that’s that. I mean, Petey might have missed one game post this year. But if a moderator say “he didn’t post on the game thread,” it could be one game thread. Out of all the game threads this year. That’s enough. Petey can’t comment, he can’t comment. Man, he’s offline, he’s offline. I mean, simple as that.

It ain’t about that…

Boney on patrol, looking for Peteys

hahahahaaa

this winning streak has us all crazy

What’s happened to you guys? You used to be all sensible and caring and shit. Have things changed so much that we no longer remember the good days with our beloved AI lovers?

Hang on…

By the way, I’m not sure if you blokes get Little Creatures Pale Ale over there, but by crikey it’s a fantastic drop.

This is the shit. I get down to this after every win

I know when I blew my back out, the doctor left it up to me to decide how much time I needed off. I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

@Boney, belated

Nothing wrong with dislike Van Gundy, but Shaq did flop pretty egregiously. Given that Shaq has a history of complaining about floppers, I think he should be called out.

iverson’s back HURT, but also his PRIDE hurt. time with pistons LIMITED and will get contract ELSEWHERE next SUMMER. just epinion

Shaq has always been able to dish it out and not take it. Nothing new here.

I’ve peed in the Brood Midget’s shoes so many times at this point that it’s lost its novelty. Maybe I should do something else…

into his shoes…

I want this jersey.

Just food for thought from ESPN Hollinger’s chat yeaterday regarding summer teams plans is that he doesn’t see AI making more than the MLE next year. I even thought he could get a contract in the 7-10 range, but looking at it now I don’t think he’ll even get an MLE.

AI’s best bet is to come back, eat the other team’s 2nd unit alive, smile, gaciously accept the role with the caveat that he could always jump into the lineup because of his experience should the staring 2 get hurt and HOPE someone offers him a MLE.

If he plays this right and the pistons take off, would Joe D sign him to be the 6th man? Since he’s our guy, we can go over the cap to re-sign him. As for the injury, if he says he’s hurt, I take him at face value. I also think that his Georgetown trek may have been also to talk to former coach Thompson for some support or that the doctors there have prior experience with this.

At the end of the day, getting paid to play basketball is great. Getting paid alot to play basketball is even better. But if strictly payroll won chips, we’d be watching the Knicks go for a 4-peat or something. Guess we’ll find out how much he wants that chip.

@Shinons:

The Norvell jersey is solid. I’d rock that for sure.

“AI’s best bet is to come back, eat the other team’s 2nd unit alive, smile, gaciously accept the role…”

More like gay-ciously! El oh el!

Fucking Iverson. That guy!

AI’s best bet is to come back, eat the other team’s 2nd unit alive, smile, gaciously accept the role with the caveat that he could always jump into the lineup because of his experience should the staring 2 get hurt and HOPE someone offers him a MLE.

Agreed. After seeing how disjointed Detroit has looked over the past several weeks, no viable contender is going to sign AI unless he proves himself willing to be one piece of the puzzle, not the piece.

I’m still waiting for Spree to come back and feed his children.

I want Doug Christie to come back so he can buy his wife some new jewelry.

@ Laughton:

Here and here are typical AI fans, during the ‘good days.’

AI’s best bet is to come back, eat the other team’s 2nd unit alive,>>

====
Not a realistic scenario.

The midgets minutes will not be limited to playing only with our second unit.

If the midget comes back he will come off the bench and play 30 plus minutes just like before with the same result.

As so many posters on this website have posted, its not who starts but who finishes and the midget will be on the court in the 4th quarter with the same disasterous results as before.

The only good solution for the Pistons is to see that the midget doesn’t ever get on the court again wearing a Pistons uniform

@ Mike: I somewhat agree, but thought I’d give the cup is half full theory a chance. But, we may find ourselves in need of a shot creator at the end of games because of some unforeseen circumstance.

@Keegan: Did you see Christie and his wife opened some sport traning / management service. Guess that reality show didn’t work out.

The Pistons are 7 – 0 in games in which the midget hasn’t played including beating some of the best teams in the EC on the road.

They are 23 – 29 in games in which the midget has played including embarassing losses to the Thunder and T-Wolves.

The facts speak for themselves.

nuff said.

MB – I’m sad that I missed that reality show. I didn’t even know it existed until maybe a week ago when I was looking at his wikipedia. Seriously though, his wife seems insane.

Mike – I thought that Wojo over at Detnews hit it spot on, in few words: Iverson accepts his new role when (if?) he comes back, or everything he said since coming here is fake.

And that’s whether that includes being on the court at the end of a game, or on the bench at the end of a game. Ff he can’t accept it, then all of his “trying to fit in with what they’re doing here” rah-rah stuff was BS.

They’re actually 7-1. They lost a game to the Bulls when Iverson was out with the flu.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/03/allen_iverson_speaks_about_bac.html

My goal is to help this team win a championship and I’ve said that from the first day I arrived here in Detroit. I’m going to do whatever it takes to help us achieve our goals as a team regardless if I’m starting or coming off the bench

I believe him and still contend we need him at his best to go anywhere in the Playoffs.

I was firmly in the “AI as a super sixth could get us further into the playoffs” camp, but I’m having a change-of-heart. I don’t want to see that dude on the floor with 2:00 left in the 4th in a tie game. I don’t want to see the opposing PG slip right past him for a layup. I don’t want to see him take a 20’ clanker instead of moving the ball. I want Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Dyess and Wallace on the floor in those situations.

Sure, if I was certain we’ve had AI close out the 1st and the 3rd, I’d be all about it. But if there is any consistent theme for this season— it is that MCIAFI. I can trust in that game-in, game-out. So with that, I’d prefer this 2-week injury extends another 6. However, I’d love to eat these words and see everything go swimmingly with him off the bench. I just don’t see that happening…

I would like to think that at some point, our coaching staff has to realize how well we have played with AI and how inconsistently we have played with AI.

I realize they haven’t been a great staff this year, but it’s as obvious as the noses on their faces.

Great videos Sauce. They show how natural selection has clearly failed with our species.

I agree 100% with you Mike A.I.needs to stay outa uniform the rest of the year , and in the playoffs , its time to get these young guys some playoffs seasoning.

This is the best film available on the subject of where the human race possibly might be headed.

Regarding AI down the stretch: MCIAFI has said himself that the whole “best five need to be on the floor at all times” philosophy didn’t work, that we need two bigs out there. That means that out of our four wings, one of them is going to have to be on the bench in crunch time. It’s probably not going to be Tay, unless we want Rip guarding LBJ or Allen. It’s not going to be Stuck, because he’s been in during crunch time all season (even if MCIAFI completely takes him out of the offense). So it’s either going to be Rip or AI. If after all this evidence that shows how much better our core is with Rip instead of AI and Curry still goes with AI, that’s not Iverson’s fault. It’s MCIAFI.

We haven’t seen Iverson as Zoo Crew leader. We don’t know if it will work or if it won’t. But we do know that Cleveland beat us handily in 2007 and Boston did the same to us in 2008. Cleveland’s better this year, Boston’s about the same as 2008, and we don’t have a chance in hell at beating those two with a way worse coach and without Chauncey. If we’re not going to compete, then what’s the point? Our only chance to compete is if AI off as Zoo Crew leader works.

This is the best film available on the subject of where the human race possibly might be headed.

Hm. I’m willing to bet that’s the first time “Mike Judge: Modern Oracle” has ever been suggested…

I believe AI fans have Pistons fans’ staplers, Shinons.

Well, if AI is having one of those games where he’s absolutely unstoppable. Then, I’d be okay with him at the end of the game.

The great thing about him coming off the bench is it’s easier to gauge if he’s off or on.

He won’t like the 4 minutes, 1 turnover, and 1 personal foul gauges, QD. This won’t likely work.

Can the Canswer, and let’s re-tool already.

rip and stuckey not just good INDIVIDUAL players, but also good TEAM players. iverson experiment NOT GOOD, but could be GOOD if minutes limited. opposing backup GUARDS not used to such TALENTED competition. just epinion

Can the Canswer, and let’s re-tool already.

I’m totally fine with re-tooling (or tanking). But we shouldn’t be tanking with Rip, Tay, Dyess, and Sheed on the floor – we should be doing it with Bynum, AA, Amir, and Max actually getting consistent playing time. Otherwise, what good does it do? Another pending playoff flame out doesn’t do us any good if it’s the same guys doing it. Rebuilding or going for a title this year – it’s either one or the other.

I believe AI fans have Pistons fans’ staplers, Shinons.

I don’t know what this means. Idiocracy reference? Haven’t seen the movie yet, but it’s in my queue – is it actually worth watching?

Canning the Canswer frees up 30 or so minutes for other guards. You might see a punch up of minutes in the short playoff run for Sheed and Dice, but at least guys like Bynum and Afflalo stop being ghosts.

We weren’t going to win with Billups was all of the big bad refrain for making this change … we sure as hell aren’t gonna win now. Experiment failed. Cut the plug.

Heads up everyone:

I have figured out how Curry can use Johnson effectively.

Curry should start to insert Johnson in the last two minutes of any quarter in which the Pistons have a foul to give.

Johnson will surely accomplish that goal effectively and efficiently, maybe even before the ball is tossed in on an out of bounds play.

With 4 quarters that means that Johnson will never exceed his 4 foul quota unless Curry continues to leave him in after he has given that foul to give.

I think Johnson will respond well this role as a specialist and even proclaim

“I just go out foul hard”

@CoachDP:
that you, MCIAFI? bebounds?

I agree with everything in Shinons’s last two posts. Detroit may not get far in the playoffs with Iverson coming off the bench, but I can’t see how Detroit possibly goes anywhere in the playoffs without Iverson being a contributor. And I say this as somebody who probably overrates both Will Bynum and Aaron Afflalo.

Sure, there are risks. Curry will play AI too many minutes, and Bynum and Afflalo will play less. These are legit concerns.

But, like Shinons, I think this year’s Pistons team without AI is clearly not quite as good as the Pistons of the last year or two, and I the Cavs are better and Boston is at least as good. So, trying to figure out a way to integrate AI is the only possible — not certain, by a long shot — way to give Detroit anything like a chance. And along the lines of what Shinons said, if we don’t think we’re going to have a chance this year, we should have dumped ‘Sheed and AI, at minimum, before the trade deadline and played the young’uns a lot more.

I think you’re missing the point … we weren’t going to compete, starting November 4th.

if we don’t think we’re going to have a chance this year, we should have dumped ‘Sheed and AI, at minimum, before the trade deadline and played the young’uns a lot more.

========

That’s the only point I disagree on. I think Joe D realizes — in spite of what he says in the media — that this year and next year are going to be full of growing pains.

Once Sheed, Dice, and AI have said their goodbyes (although I’m not totally convinced Sheed is jumping ship just yet, because I’m not sure he’ll get more tha MLE on any other contending team), that’s where the young players will finally have their chance to come into their own on the court.

I know Joe has said he’s going to put a helluva team out there ,yada yada yada, but I think he’s at least willing to put those young guys out there and let them thrive or fail.

Either way, I think Joe D fully anticipated that 1) AI might not work out and 2) this year and next year things might get worse before they get better.

This team even with Chauncey was going to struggle to beat Boston/Cleveland in 7 games, no matter how good the regular season was.

I think Joe sensed that and began the rebuilding phase early.

Sauce1977:

The Pistons chances at competing this season ended because Obama was elected?

You know, if we go 20-3 from here out we could still hit the 50 win plateau for the season…

And thanks Toledo Joe.

What we need A.I. to be off the bench is vinnie Johnson, thats the only chancewe’d have of upsetting Boston or Cleveland , and even thats a very slim chance. Its doubtful we’ll get outa the second round ,with or without A.i. off the bench , but if Curry would play him strictly with the second unit, we’d have a chance , at least the young guys would play ,and we could start building for the future. And by the way , I seriously dought A. I. could be anywhere near as good as Vinnie off the bench , hopefully i’m wrong.

PLease excuse the spelling I was in rush.

Yep, Toledo Joe, absolutely Obama’s election … and this was all David Stern’s fault, too. And the Nazis.

Damn pesky Obama Commie Jewish Nazis.

Cuts both ways. Wouldn’t win with Billups, can definitely not fucking win with Canswer. Cut the rotten bastard.

Check out that “Donald Sterling Goes Ballistic” article. The Clippers are a travesty.

Hey Keegan, don’t talk about the team Petey will be cheering for like that!

Zing!

Sauce1977:

No problem, I’m here all week. Please tip your waitress.

Substantively, what Defor said.

Rip was just on PTI. He basically played it safe, calling Iverson a great and important player who the team wants to be around. But Rip also emphasized that the team comes first and winning is what matters most. He said that the team is taking the attitude that if they can get hot late in the season they can still make a run at the championship.
Also, Rip really likes to say “you know?”. A lot.

Yeah, TJ/Defor, I’ll humor you some seriousness for a moment …

Couldn’t Detroit have had a better version of Vinnie if we kept Billups and made Stuckey that Vinnie?

/srsly

Substansively, what I’ve been saying.

I don’t get where 23-28 makes you believe AI’s going to be fantastic … AND truly agreeable to a bench role … or even that his bench work is going to help at all … it’s obvious the words out of AI’s mouth mean nothing at all.

When I hear hisses and slithers, I know AI’s around. Or Petey.

All you guys who cheered for Chauncey the other night are bad fans. I’ll be cheering for the guys who have “Pistons” on the front of their jerseys (edit: if and only if a particular player is on the roster). That’s what it means to be a true fan of a team (edit: if and only if a particular player is on the roster).

/You Know Who’d

Has the idea that maybe, just maybe, the guys are playing a little harder with AI out of the line-up? 23-28 means nothing. The team was like 4-13 with Rip coming off the bench and forcing up over half of his 15-20 shots a game, and like 7-2 when Rip and Sheed missed time with Stuckey and AI carrying the team. All of this means nothing. All that really matters is how the team is playing at the end of the season going into the playoffs. It’s been obvious that it’s been a lot more than just cohesiveness and chemistry in Detroit’s past 3 games. And Stuckey being a better 6th man option than AI?! Maybe after Stuckey wins a couple scoring titles or an MVP award you’ll be able to convince me of that.

The difference is, david satan, it means something, contrary to your popular farce-filled belief.

The other difference is, one got re-upped for multiple years, and the other one is seeking out 3 doctors to come up with a diagnosis of ‘sore back.’

Well, Stuckey’s starting now, and he’s probably not as good as Rip, so what’s your point along that front?

DS,

It is definitely possible that the player’s weren’t giving their all. I’m going to go with the more obvious explanation that AI is a poor defender and that he didn’t mesh well with the team. Also, it is entirely possible that AI and Rip would be a better starting backcourt than Rip and Stuck. I don’t think so, but anything is possible. Since it is unclear, I think it makes sense to give minutes to players who will be in a Pistons uniform next year.

Isn’t it silly that we’re almost 60 games into the season and we’ve tried every combination humanly possible EXCEPT bringing AI off the bench?

We need to swoop in and sign Pops Mensah-Bonsu before Toronto does.

@ Garrett:
MCIAFI hasn’t tested a line-up having Kwame at the point, or bynum at the center yet, so there still are few a unknown possible combinations.

@ Hot SIZZLE ‘77
My point is that its pretty clear he’s not wanted here. He was basically brought in here to clear up cap space, most of the fans here strongly dislike him and his style of play, and now the players are playing harder than they have all season as almost to prove a point that they’d rather not have him here as well. What more needs to be said. I appreciate the fans who want him to stick around and thrive in his new role whatever it may be, and I wish for the same, but there are too many other variables here and this will not happen.

“I think it makes sense to give minutes to players who will be in a Pistons uniform next year.”

And the funny thing is there were a lot of fans saying this a week after the trade was made. Apparently, he’s been written off here before he was even given a legitimate chance. Who’s to say he wouldn’t make a serious change and adapt to this new role as a 6th man type player for the rest of his playing days. If he happens to do this, and does it well, then consequently why wouldn’t Detroit consider resigning him since he would be making a fraction of what he’s making this year no matter where he goes. Yet, Sheed can take every 4 outta 5 games off and is wanted back still by many fans.

Sauce1977:

I think I’ve been pretty clear that I don’t think for sure that AI has been or will be “fantastic.” I never said I was sure he would be agreeable to a bench role. I wish we still had Chauncey.

What I said — pretty clearly and carefully, I thought — was that (i) I’m not at all sure that Detroit will do much in the playoffs with AI, but (ii) I’m pretty sure that Detroit won’t advance in the playoffs without him.

And FWIW, I would be quite happy to be proven wrong about (ii).

Well, if AI is out for two weeks. It’ll be a lot easier to hold his minutes down when he comes back (especially if the team goes on a tear). They can claim to be easing him in.

DS,

To be clear, I am in the “we need AI to embrace being the 6th man and channel his anger into a scoring frenzy” club. I was responding to a post in which you threw out a lot of “alternative possible scenarios.” I basically said, “yeah, maybe, but since we’re not sure I want to give more minutes to Stuck and Rip together.”

If everything worked out I wouldn’t be against him resigning, but I think our priorities are 1) A beastly PF 2) A rugged center and 3) a back up for Tay. We only have 18-20 Million next year so I don’t see it happening.

You say: “Apparently, he’s been written off here before he was even given a legitimate chance.”

Probably by some, but not by me. Once they went to the smallball line-up I was definitely ready to try AI off the bench. Not because I’d given up on him, but because it seemed like the best idea for team success. You can disagree with that thinking, but wanting to bring him off the bench doesn’t mean I wrote him off.

Finally, regarding Sheed – I feel very conflicted. He has two things over AI. 1)He helped us win a ‘Ship and 2) he plays excellent post defense. His pick n roll D has been terrible this season, which really pisses me off. I wouldn’t say I want him back, but I’m more open to it than with AI, because his position is a greater need for us.

I would too, TJ, but losing in the 1st doesn’t seem all that much worse than losing in the 2nd, or not making the playoffs. It’s all shit … and better off without AI adding to the misery.

david shickadance, the team doesn’t behave that way, and there’s a chance AI gets re-upped, even, if he just fits into the team. Instead, Allen stays silent, suggests they change the whole team for him, silently refuses to come off the bench, and alienates the whole fucking Piston nation. Joe D, maybe, thought he was gonna be more like Rasheed. And, Joe D was wrong.

Saving cap space, definitely … but maybe not as horrible as the team has responded. Not even close to as horrible.

I didn’t like Rasheed before he got to Detroit. I figured I wouldn’t feel too bad being wrong about AI. lol, oh well about being wrong!

I definitely think losing in the Second is better than losing in the first or not even making the playoffs. As a fan, I like to watch wins.

Also, I’m skeptical of the recent developments regarding AI’s back, but I don’t think it’s fair to lambast him for not volunteering to come off the bench. Would’ve been nice, but not a very realistic standard.

I like wins too, Colin. We get more of them without The Canswer.

.

Sauce, how is he silently refusing to come off the bench because last time I checked today he announced he would when his back is feeling good enough for him to return to action. And how exactly has he alienated Piston Nation because he left for a few games. He hasn’t been accepted into Piston Nation, yet he’s turning his back on him?

Colin, you feel conflicted because I questioned Sheed’s effort? How do you think I feel about everything….

them, not him*

Sauce,

Maybe you’re right. I’m not convinced. Your statement made it sound like if AI helped us bow out in the second round rather than the first round you’d still rather bench him. That didn’t make sense to me.

He clearly made Rip little option other than taking the bench 1st!

Doesn’t matter what round, Colin, losing is sunnier without Allen Clouderson.

I don’t wanna bench him, I want to pay him to stay the hell home.

“Colin, you feel conflicted because I questioned Sheed’s effort? How do you think I feel about everything….”

No, I feel conflicted because he is inconsistent and does lots of boneheaded stuff. On the otherhand, his contributions are really hard to replace, especially on the defensive end. Moreover, because of his position, I think his contribution would be more difficult to replace than AI’s. The reality is that volume scorers are prevalent in the NBA. Skilled bigment are harder to come by. So, even though he really pisses me off, I’m not gonna say – throw the bum out – if he can still help our team at a reasonable price. Also, I have a soft spot for him, for some reason.

“Doesn’t matter what round, Colin, losing is sunnier without Allen Clouderson.”

That was what I was disagreeing with. I don’t hate AI and would gladly have him as a Piston if he can adapt. Not sure that it’s going to work, but I’m not quite where you’re at either.

Also, by “by bench him” I meant pay him to stay home.

Because Allen’s been adapting this whole time … really now.

I think the pistons may have tried harder when AI was out…but I also think AI’s ball-dominating style tends to discourage motion, ball movement, and other things we’d generally call effort.

Sauce,

Like I said, not sure that it’s going to work, but I’m not quite where you’re at either.

No Forty, the problem is everyone else. The other players, the coaching staff, the people of Detroit themselves. How dare we expect Iverson to “fit in” with a “well established system” that “won a championship against a greatly favored opponent.”
Seriously though, I respect Iverson’s effort. I don’t blame him for how the season has gone (I really blame a lack of Billups) or for being the kind of player he is. I just think he’s a horrible fit for the Pistons. I hope he can contribute off the bench. If not, at least we still have all that cap space.

I think Sheed could fit in with this team next year as long as it was understood he would be coming off the bench, the problem is would he hinder max’s or Amir’s developement ,I’m beginning to think there bothsuited to the bench more then starting.Joe’s gonna have some interesting choices to make this summer , i wouldn’t be surprised if either Max or amir were thrown in with some other combination of players to complete a trade for one of the 2010 free agents. with everyone trying to cut salary , some of them guys will be traded this summer i think .

What’s it gonna take, Colin, a 10-game losing bender and Allen telling everyone he’s thankful for taking the money for a short vacation in Detroit?

, I get it now. All of you want to avoid being in the same boat with “Muck the Midget!” Mike. Offends your senses, or something.

You should try being in Petey’s shoes.

I’ve been there … and man, it is something else. At first, it’s fantastic. It’s the most amazing beach you’ve ever walked. Watching the greatest guard to ever play the game, one man army, sky’s the limit. Money, women, champagne, flashbulbs, jets, boats, you name it, total jet-set … awwwwww yeah, nothing but championship hopes every year … until right around the 8th year, when the walk gets tougher … on that hot sand … the hopes are still there, but … well, sure, there was a brief moment with Chris Webber playing the Mutt to AI’s Jeff, outside chance of running the table, going all the way … and then there was that short span with Carmelo taking over as Mutt, more hopes, dashed just as abruptly … and then, unfortunately, there was that patch where the Pistons became AI’s Mutt …. only now, it’s getting pretty lonely, even AI’s footprints have disappeared … and I’m looking around, wondering where everyone was, during my darkest time … rest assured, theres someone there, in spirit, just not where I expected.

This experience feels a little too familiar in some ways … around the 8th year … plus a brief stint with Chris Webber … you see that pool of blood over there, that is Darko Milicic …

Looking into the crystal ball…

The Pistons will have:

1.) At least 17mil in cap space (2nd most in the league behind Oklahoma).

2.) A middle first round pick.

3.) Three second round picks.

4.) 7mil worth of expiring contracts (Kwame and Amir).

I don’t think JoeD will go after an established star. I think he’ll go after a value player, someone young and with upside, the equivalent of what Chauncey was when he signed him to a mid-level exemption.

With the economy in the crapper and his recent injuries, I could see Boozer opting to stay with Utah. Okur, I’m not as sure about. Hopefully, he would stay too and the Pistons would be free to go after Paul Milsap.

As for the number one pick… If JoeD doesn’t see a Rodney Stuckey-type steal or even a Afflalo/Maxiell type tough guy, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Joe trade it along with either Kwame or Amir for an upside player that another team might not be able to resign.

As for the second round draft picks… I think Joe will draft a bunch of Nathan Jawais and Devon Hardins to stash away in Europe in the hopes that one of the pans out.

I could also see Joe bringing Sheed back for a year to fill in at PF before making a run at Bosh. This strategy could work if he can find a real banger to play the C position. Bosh, Tay, Rip and Stuckey is a pretty formidable starting lineup. But, my guess is that Sheed will be in San Antonio next year.

Thoughts?

I’m confused, Sauce. I don’t speak your language yet. Nevertheless, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give AI a shot off the bench. It’s not without risks, but at this point we don’t have much to lose.

I just waste my motherfuckin’ time. Same as usual.

QD,

I think (hope?) he’s going to be more aggressive than that.

I like the idea of going after Millsap, but he doesn’t put us over the top and probably costs enough that we don’t have enough left over to get an elite guy. I agree about Boozer staying. Def. agree about the draft. I say trade ’em.

I guess I’m hoping he can pull off something that’s not obvious right now. Maybe that means I’m hoping for a miracle? I feel like we should be able to take advantage of somebody. We can take on contracts and like you said we have 7 mil more in expiring contracts.

We could potentially get Caron Butler for cheap (he has 3 seasons at 9 mil left and Washington will be over the tax). Then we could package Tay for someone. Not too keen on losing Tay, but Caron Butler is pretty damn good.

@QD:
Excellent comment, +100. I hope you’re wrong about Rasheed, I’d love that guy to retire here.

As for who we go for, I’d like to bet the farm on David Lee, and rotate a few shot-blocker vets in the other frontcourt spot to keep him company. Should we aim for a stud in 2010, I’d like to aim for the 1-3 spot.

*2-3 spot.

Shinons – I believe the stapler reference is from ‘Office Space’, another Mike Judge movie. Both ‘Office Space’ and ‘Idiocracy’ are excellent.

Idle ‘09 GM talk – If I were the Pistons GM I’d be trying to swap one or two 2nd round picks for Corey Brewer. Young SF defensive specialist coming off a knee injury, he might give the Pistons 90% of Trevor Ariza at 1/10th the cost. Brewer is a real nice puzzle piece if you are trying to win playoff series in a conference with great small forwards.

SadPanda – don’t get me wrong, I think iverson is incredibly overrated. I just think it’s unreasonable to expect someone to “fit in” who has such a specific skill set. If AI doesn’t have the ball, he’s constantly hurting you. He can’t space the floor b/c he can’t shoot. He can’t rebound. He’s a minus defender.

Saying he should adjust to playing on a championship contender doesn’t make sense to me. If yours is not a team that needs someone to take 25 shots a game at league avg efficiency, you shouldn’t acquire AI, full stop. He’s not selfish, he’s just not talented at shooting, passing, or defending. It’d be like a college team that runs a pro style offense recruiting pat white and then complaining that he has trouble throwing 5 step drops against a cover 3.

hahahaha love the pat white analogy. So who’s the best overall WR in the draft this year? Crabtree, Harvin, Heyward-Bey, or Maclin?

MP,

Why the 2-3 spots? Because there’s more talent available there than at the 4 and 5.

@colin:
exactly.

Funny you mention Pat White and football …

Such a talented player, Allen was, considered a better football prospect than Mike Vick and Aaron Brooks …. great at both sports … such a SUPERSTAR at this one … but he can’t seem to understand half-court offense … hmmmm, smells like bullshit and laziness. Probablly has to to with that pesky practice.

Colin, I agree that Milsap wouldn’t put the Pistons over the top.

I see Rip, Tay and Stuckey starting. And Bynum, Afflalo, Sharpe and Maxiell off the bench.

The Pistons need a starting PF and C (and a backup C).

With 17mil in cap space, the Pistons can sign two up and coming players and still stay under the cap. Remember Chauncey was a mid-level exemption. He hadn’t reached his potential yet. I think JoeD will try to find one of his patented steals and not go after someone that already commands a high salary.

That’s how he built the 2004 team.

I think Milsap can be had for 7mil. That leaves 10mil (or 17mil in 2010 once Kwame and Amir are off the books).

I wouldn’t be surprised if Golden State wants to shed some salaries. They’re committed longterm to Maggette, Ellis, Jackson, and Biedrins. Plus Crawford for a couple years. And they’re clearly going nowhere.

I wonder if they would do Amir and a first round pick for Biedrins.

If we could sign Millsap for 7/8M then trade Kwame for Chandler (health permitting) we’d still have another 3/4M left over to sign a back up PG/SF or maybe even Dyess. The more I see him, the more I’d be pretty happy with Bynum as our back up PG. Thos two would give us a very good defensive frontline and our starting line-up would be pretty young.

PG – Stuckey (23)
SG – Rip (31)
SF – Tay (29)
PF – Millsap (24)
C – Chandler (26)

Even our bench would be pretty young…Bynum (26), Afflalo (24), Amir (22), Maxiell (27), Herrmann (30), plus 1st round draft pick.

I’d love to combine Jim’s and QD’s ideas. Instead of trading for Chandler, the Pistons should pursue Biedrins. I think Biedrins is a better, less injured version of Chandler. I would worry a bit that Millsap’s skill set (rebounds, energy) overlaps too much with that of the centers mentioned. But it would be great to have two tenacious rebounders.

So the starters would be Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Millsap, Biedrins. Bench would be Bynum, Afflalo, Max, Herrmann, and Kwame.

Birdman, I would also take Biedrins over Chandler if both could be had at the same price. A Biedrins/Millsap front line would give us a young (22 and 24 respectively) big man combo that would provide 25+ points and 20+ boards a game.

Biedrins is miles above Chandler. The funny thing is, he’s averaging 13, 12 and 2 in just 30.5 min— and he’ll never scratch the ceiling of his potential under Don Nelson. I think Golden State would have to be out of their minds to move him, as he’s the best player on their squad that is not also a headcase. But if we could get him, I’d be thrilled.

@Jim:
If we could get our hands on Biedrins, I think we’d need a player with a different skill set than Millsap to compliment him. Funny enough, someone like Rasheed— a defensive big who can shoot lights out from 20’ and even out to the 3 point line (and can also bang in the post when needed). If we had Biedrins, I’d love to make a run for Dirk in 2010. Biedrins/Nowitzki in the frontcourt would be a bit too pasty for my taste, but their combined games would be dominant.

I know everyone seems to think Boozer is staying in Utah, but they have three quality bigs - Boozer, Millsap, Okur- and they absolutely cannot afford to keep all of them. You know Sloan LOVES Millsap’s game, and they can sign him for way cheaper than what Boozer is going to want— in my opinion, Boozer and Mehmet are the guys we’ll realistically have a chance to go after.

So I say we combine a couple of your guys’ theories— we sign Boozer for around $10 mil. We trade Kwame’s expiring ass to GS for Beidrins (using our magical capspace powers). THEN, we re-up Sheed so he can finish his career in D-town and then take over as coach eventually (my dream) and hopefully get Dyce back too. Finally, if we have enough money left, we throw $7-8 mil at Ben Gordon to become our full-time Microwave 2.0.

We would look like so:

Stuckey
Rip
Tay
Boozer
Beidrins

Bynum
Gordon
Hermann
Max
Sheed/Dyce

Mathematically, does this work out? I have NO fucking idea. But I have a huge boner for Gordon coming off our bench (a role he accepts and is good at already) with Sheed or Dyce (or both) and Max. Honestly, a squad of Bynum, Gordon, Hermann, Sheed/Dyce, and Max could compete with most teams’ starters. Not to mention the ferocious rebounders and post scoring/garbage work we’d be adding to the starting frontcourt. I love this (imaginary) team.

Joel,

That post needs to be accompanied by Andy Sandberg singing “I Jizzed in My Pants” after each acquisition you mention. I love it.

I do have two quibbles though:

1) You are right that Sloan loves Millsap, but the issue is whether or not Boozer opts out. He said he would a couple of months ago before the economy completely bottomed out. Some people think he won’t be able to get the kind of contract he was expecting and therefore, won’t opt out. Who knows, maybe he will opt out. If he does, I think we sign him.

2) A backcourt of Ben Gordon and Will Bynum would be almost as undersized as AI and Bynum.

I disagree that Milsap’s game is too similar to Biedrins/Chandler. The thing that those guys lack is a post game. That’s what I like about Milsap. He can bang in the post and he’s already developed a few moves.

What I’d like is a PF and a C that both rebound and play defense. And one of them has to have a low post game.

I wouldn’t mind David Lee at PF if there was a good C to be gotten to pair him with.

“A backcourt of Ben Gordon and Will Bynum would be almost as undersized as AI and Bynum.”

Ben Gordon > AI

All day. Shoots the 3. Shoots the midrange. Drives the lane. Lethal from free throw. Clutch as fuck. Built for the bench as an undersized 2 and has no problem with it. And there’s a big difference between 6’2" and 5’11", so I don’t worry about the size thing. We’ve needed scoring off our bench since Corliss left, and this guy is the best in the business.

So, here’s the consensus:

- Trade Amir and two first round picks for Biedrins. (GS gets to shed a longterm contract. Gets at least one decent pick. And a PF that might blossom in their style of play.)

- Sign Milsap for a couple mil over the mid-level. (Enough to outbid teams already over the cap).

Starting lineup: Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Milsap, Biedrins

Backups: Bynum, Afflalo, Hermann?/Sharpe, Maxiell, Kwame/Dyess?

If Dyess and Hermann were resigned that would leave three more spots for Washington, Plaisted and the 3 second round picks.

That’s a good young team with upside.

Definitely not the concensus.

-Sign Boozer instead of Milsap. Also sign Ben Gordon.

Other than that, yeah, we need to drop some combo of Amir and picks to get that guy, and we’ll be all set.

that guy = Beidrins

Starting lineup: Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Milsap, Biedrins

Backups: Bynum, Afflalo, Hermann?/Sharpe, Maxiell, Kwame/Dyess?

Who’s going to hit the three? Millsap and Biedrins give us dominance within 8’ (note that neither player can score outside of the post) but with Tay at SF you don’t have a wing player that can consistently hit threes and extend defenses out from a clogged post. With Millsap/Biedrins and their defenders clogging up the lane, how is Stuckey going to drive?

If we moved Tayshaun for Biedrins and replaced him with a SF that is more comfortable with the 3-pointer, that could make a Biedrins and Millsap/Lee/Etc. work. But if we brought in Biedrins, David Lee would be a better fit than Millsap (as Lee’s game can extend further than Millsap’s).

Who could we pickup in place of Tayshaun to make a Biedrins/Lee frontcourt work? There’s really no one that is workable. I’ll likely take heat for saying this, but Ron Artest is more comfortable (but as efficient) from 3 and would be an apt replacement…

MP…I agree Millsap wouldn’t be a perfect compliment for Biedrins, but I think if we have the opportunity to sign him at 7/8M we need to do it. Having that young core together would be too much to pass up IMO. Dirk would be great though next to Chandler/Biedrins if we dont’ use all our cap space this summer.

If we’re able to get some combination of Millsap/Lee and Chandler/Biedrins we’ve completely remade our team. We’d be two years removed from having one of the oldest starting fives to one of the youngest and most talented, plus a young and developing bench.

I’m now more convinced then ever that Joe D made the right trade with AI for Billups. Yes we’d be better with Billups this year, but wouldn’t get through Boston and Cleveland and then LA. Plus, we’d lose Sheed in the offseason and have no cap flexibility for the next two years. We are going to make a killing this summer in FA and through trades, especially because of the economy and the lack of other quality teams with cap space. If we don’t use all our cap space we’ll be able to get a steal before the trading deadline from struggling teams who want to dump salary.

I like that team QD. If I had to guess though, I’d bet GS would push for Maxiell over Amir. They’ve already got Randolph and Wright, two athletic young projects. With Turiaf aging and worth a little less than Malik Rose circa 2003, they could use a bruiser who is ready to play more than another tantalizer.

Regarding Lee, I think someone’s going to overpay for him this summer and I hope it’s Memphis rather than us. He’s a 16 and 12 guy this year, but that’s playing in Mike D’Antoni’s system. Every other year he’s a 10 and 10 guy. Put him in our half court system where we need him to play tough defense and hit the midrange jumper, he’s not going to succeed. I like his game too, but it’d be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole again.

And sorry Joel, but I hate Ben Gordon. Very much.

MP, yes there’s a lack of 3 point shooters but I think it’s imperative to have someone that can score in the post. Milsap has a nice mid-range shot so he wouldn’t clog the lane. Biedrins would, but he’s still young and could maybe develop a mid range shot too.

Another option (if Okur opts out and Milsap resigns), go after Okur and David Lee.

Joel, if Boozer doesn’t opt out, the Pistons can’t sign him. Also, I’d rather have Milsap at 7-8mil than Boozer at 13mil. He’s younger and you’d still have room to sign a center.

I agree on the need for a three-point shooter. Without Billups, the Pistons have suffered in that area. Shots from three and in the paint are generally the most efficient. I think we’ve addressed low post scorers reasonably well in the previous posts. So, who would be available for help beyond the arc?

I agree with Shinons on Lee. From what I hear, he’s not a good defender. He also can’t create his own shot.

One thing I don’t understand is why Golden State would move Biedrins. His contract isn’t overweighted, its possibly even under-valued. Per dollar, he’s earning that contract over most C’s in the NBA. If GS were to move Biedrins, I can’t understand why they wouldn’t do it for a solid player AND a prospect.

If they DO want a prospect, why would they want Maxiell or Amir? They have Brandan Wright and Anthony Randolph. I’m not saying those players are a lateral match, but they are similar in skill set. Young, energetic (and undersized) bigs.

If I’m Golden State I want a backup PG. If I’m Detroit I want an SF that can hit the 3 and is not a significant defensive downgrade from Prince. If I’m Joe D, this is what I do:

Re-sign Will Bynum.

Trade Tayshaun Prince + Will Bynum
for Andris Biedrins + Kelenna Azubuike

MP, you’re probably right about GS and Biedrins. Although they are kinda screwed with a couple of players no one would want (Maggette, Jackson).

It would probably be easier to get Chandler or Pryzbilla (although I can see Portland just holding onto him because his contract comes off when they need to resign Aldridge and Roy).

OK, after doing some research on Azubuike, I was impressed. He’s young and has a career 3PT% of 41.1. He’s currently leading the league this season in 3PT% at 46.2. This is just his third year in the league.

@QD:
Milsap has a nice mid-range shot so he wouldn’t clog the lane

Between the post and the 3-point line, Millsap shoots 34% (on 158 shots this season). Antonio McDyess, comparitively, shoots 48% from the same range (on 198 shots this season). The vast majority of Millsap’s shots, 410 to be exact, come from the post. This will be pretty problematic if he’s playing next to Biedrins who can’t hit a basket outside of the post to save his life.

If we were going for a guy like Biedrins, we’d really need someone who can play the post and extend out 20’. Someone like a younger McDyess. Sadly, Lee isn’t a great option either, as he hits 38% outside of the post. Its a tough call to find the right fit with Biedrins. I still like Dirk, as he can play the post a bit too, and extend. Aside from him, Boozer is actually a better fit (although, I agree that he’s overpriced and I dont’ like his injuries)

Some UFA 2009 three point shooters: Bibby, Szerbiak, Sheed, Matt Barnes, Anthony Parker. There are a few more with player options or RFAs, but these are the ones who will definitely be out there. The last few years there have been guys like Barnes, Fred Jones, Bonzi Wells, etc. I imagine that’ll be even more prevalent this year. Maybe Szerbiak or someone would fall under the radar and we could bring them in to be a specialist.

Also, if we had Biedrins at the 5, I’d love Okur at the 4. (and I’m admittedly not big on Okur in any other situation than next to Biedrins, for the most part)

MP…isn’t Bynum signed for next year? Maybe we have a team option on him actually…can anyone verify?

You’re right Jim, we have a team option on Bynum that we have not yet exercised.

If we were going for a guy like Biedrins, we’d really need someone who can play the post and extend out 20′. Someone like a younger McDyess.

I completely agree. Joe has shown an affinity for veteran, undervalued bigs. Maybe we’d go that way? Maybe Odom, Marion, or Artest? Each of their value in a down market would probably be around the same as Milsap’s.

I don’t see how we get Biedrins. Why would GS give him up for Bynum and Tayshaun? That doesn’t make them better in the near term and doesn’t save them money either.

Said Boozer to an ESPN.com reporter following the Jazz’s comeback win at New Jersey: “I’m opting out. No matter what, I’m going to get a raise regardless. I am going to opt out, I don’t see why I wouldn’t. I think it’s a very good business decision for me and my family, but I’d also like to see what happens with the Jazz and stay here.”

Also Wednesday, O’Connor (Jazz’ GM) told ESPN.com that the Jazz — regardless of Boozer’s situation — plan to re-sign backup power forward Paul Millsap.

Taken from: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705271400,00.html

Boozer’s going to get more money this summer than in 2010, when there will be a glut of quality PF’s on the market to push the price down. That’s why he opts out… that and he blatantly said he was going to…

So like I said, we get Boozer, whose range out to 16 feet or so totally makes up for Beidrins’ feeble offensive game. Both will probably average 10+ rebounds, Boozer is our dominant post player we’ve been missing, and BEN FUCKING GORDON lights the world on fire off our bench, feasting on dimes from MFWB.

Boom.

And if we can’t get Boozer, and Milsap isn’t happening (it isn’t), let’s bring back the giant Turk.

“Maybe Odom, Marion, or Artest? "

Please, God No. If I had to pick one it would be Artest, I guess, but I don’t see that ever happening. Marion has lost a step and Odom is Chokariffic.

More from Jazz GM Kevin O’Conner:

“We intend to keep Paul Millsap,” he said. “I don’t know how much more succinct I can be.”

Same link.

Joel…that link is from December 18th. The economic climate has definitely changed since then and Boozer has been injured for a good portion of the year, which doesn’t exactly enhance his value. At that time it looked like more teams would potentially have a lot of cap space.

Only 3 teams could potentially offer him a raise…us, Memphis and OKC. I doubt OKC does since they play Green at the 4 and could even potentially draft Blake Griffin. I think their pursuit of Chandler shows they want a defensive minded center the most. I don’t see Memphis throwing money at anybody and would Boozer really want to play there? So that leaves us as his only option. I’m not saying he won’t opt out, but a lot has changed since then.

While I would love Boozer/Biedrins and Gordon, it’s not financially possible.

Utah’s got some tough choices if Boozer doesn’t opt out. If Okur does, they probably have to let him go and hope that Kosta Doofus or Krylyo Fesenko steps up.

Are they going to let Okur walk? And then have a starting frontcourt of 6’8" Milsap at PF and 6’9" Boozer at C? Really?

They’re going to resign Okur. They’re going to resign Milsap. There isn’t enough money to keep Boozer. Simple as that. He’s going to walk and take around $10-12 mil a year from Detroit, because nobody else with money wants him right now.

And I know nobody likes him, but I’ve always thought that in the right system, where he’s just a part of the “car” and not the engine, Lamar Odom could be dynamite. He’s a lot like Sheed— he’s clearly the most skilled 7 ft-ish guy in the league, but just never seems consistently motivated to play to his potential. The guy has great handles, runs the floor, rebounds like a monster, plays solid post D, passes well, has a midrange game, occasionally hits 3’s, is a lefty… I just think he needs to be in an atmosphere where he isn’t expected to dominate.

If we could get a legit rugged C to go alongside him, I think I might be leaning towards Odom even over Boozer or Milsap.

@Joel:
Totally agreed re: Odom. He has been unreal when Bynum has been out this season and last.

And imagine him on a team of likeminded “ball-sharers” — I think he could flourish.

“He’s going to walk and take around $10-12 mil a year from Detroit, because nobody else with money wants him right now.”

He’s supposed to make 12.66M next year and according to him he wants to opt out to get a raise. I think that’s very risky considering the economy, lack of teams with money this summer, and the fact that there are other quality PF’s available who’d cost less such as Lee, Millsap, Odom. Again, I’m not saying he won’t opt out, but he has to at least be re-considering it. Either way, we have a great chance at getting a Utah big man.

Also, I think Odom would be a good fit here for the right price and a 3/4 year deal. He’s only 29, so he’d still have some very good years left.

@Jim

Co-sign on Odom. Actually, the more I think about it, I think he’s the guy I want the most in this free agent class. He’s exactly the type of guy that does well in D-town— superstar talent without the superstar ego.

@joel:
the more I think about it, the more I like it. Give him $7/8 mil for 3 seasons, see who we can find for the C spot.

If we had Odom at the power forward, I’d want a bruiser alongside him. Maybe Diop?

I’ve seen enough Odom out here in LA to know I wouldn’t want him on the Pistons. If Sheed frustrates you, Odom will absolutely drive you absolutely crazy. Laker fans have been waiting for him to get it together for four years.

He’s been in the league long enough where I don’t see him changing and becoming mentally tougher. He’s an amazing talent but I think he’ll always be an underacheiver.

I want players with Piston DNA. Tough physically and mentally. And team oriented.

From what I’ve seen, Milsap, Biedrins and Lee fit that mold the most.

@QD:
Might LA’s opinion of him have to do with him not living up to the hole left by Shaq? I think he’s playing amazing now as the 3rd option behind Kobe/Pau— a niche that fits him quite well. He’s not “the” guy, he’s not even the second option. The numbers he’s putting up seem to show that he’s suited to that role quite well. If it would only cost us $7/yr. to get him to do in Detroit what he’s doing right now, I think that’s more valuable than overpaying for Boozer.

In short, underachieving is fine— as long as he puts up 14/9 for $7/mil. a year, not 20/10 which LA wanted when he came out of Miami.

That’s what people thought about Sheed too. I think in our system, where he’s just one of like 7 different guys expected to produce every night, he’ll be just fine.

(point being, we get good production on the relative cheap, allowing us more $$ to put at the 5 spot or off the bench)

I think Odom’ll get more than that. I could be wrong. But, the Lakers have been moving people so they’ll have more money to resign him and Ariza.

More money for, say, Ben Gordon and the difference between Beidrins’ and Amir’s salaries when we swap them?

QD – Kobe is making $23 million next year, $16.5 mil for Pau, $12.5 for Bynum. They’ve got four guys at $5 mil (none of which expire this summer), which puts them at $72 mil with only 7 players. They’ll have trouble affording Ariza, and I don’t see any way they can afford to keep Odom.

Hey, we get to see FPAB tonight!

/FPAB, I only wish… no way it could happen though.

Well, if Odom can be had for 7mil. That’s a good value.

well, we’ll get to see LawyerBoy’s wet dream tonight…

It’ll be interesting to see if they line up Belinelli on Rip

I’m not convinced by this whole “Odom will be fine because he won’t be the first option” argument. In the regular season, probably. But, I think we have to have a legit center who can score in the post in order to take pressure off of him in the playoffs. Otherwise, defenses will key in on him and I worry he’ll choke. If we got a good to great C to play next to him, I might go for it, but I don’t think the chances of getting a good PF and a good C are that great. I’d rather sink more money into one of those positions and get an elite player so we can do with an average guy in the other spot.

Odom isn’t undersized, but he’s not exactly a big body either, so we’d have to pair him with someone who is both skilled and 7 feetish. So, who are we gonna pair him with?

*so we can make do with

@Colin:
In the regular season, probably. But, I think we have to have a legit center who can score in the post in order to take pressure off of him in the playoffs.

So… you agree with him being the third option then? Or you don’t agree. I’m confused. The point is to get a player with his production on the cheap so we can sign better talent at the 5 and elsewhere.

@MP

Well, IMO the point is to field a championship caliber team. Getting good production on the cheap is a good strategy in order to acheive that goal. I do think that 7 mil for Odom is a good deal. However, there are a couple of things that concern me:

1) We need somebody to score out of the post. Even if he is technically the team’s third scoring option, if the other two primary scorers are at the perimeter positions and we don’t have a Center who can score out of the post I think he will struggle. He’ll be the primary post scorer and the defense will be able to key in on him and I don’t think he can handle it. A line-up of Stuckey, Rip, Tay, Odom and AVERAGE CENTER isn’t championship material. More generally, the first and second options in LA are Kobe and Pau, who attract a little more attention than Rip and Stuckey.

2)Defensively he’s not bad, but I wouldn’t want him guarding KG or boxing out Perkins. So, not only does your center need to be good offensively but he needs to be a beast on the boards and a good interior defender.

3) I don’t think we need another third option. We need a really good to truly great big man or we need a rugged front line and an elite wing player (the latter is probably more feasible, as you pointed out).

Everyone has limitations, but I feel like by signing him we’re putting ourselves in a situation where we would also be required to sign a really good off/def center in order to contend. So, while I agree that on an individual basis he would be a good value, I don’t think he’d be ideal because his value is relative to the rest of the team and how he fills a need. I think there is probably a scenario in which signing him and Player X makes us a championship contender. I just think that the probability of that scenario panning out is less likely than pursuing an elite big man or a rugged front line/wing scorer combo.

Also, I don’t like his game on a visceral/qualitative level and that is definitely coloring my judgments. I’ve seen him choke from the line and the floor repeatedly. I don’t have faith that he wouldn’t disappear in a deciding playoff game.

Anyways, I wouldn’t lose my shit if we signed him, but I’d definitely be anxious to see who else we got and for the first time he shit the bed in a crucial playoff game.