Sadly, these aren’t April Fool’s jokes

Also, sorry about any wonkiness you experience by the site during the game threads — all I can say is that MediaTemple isn’t all it’s cracked up to be as a hosting company.

I heard AI’s comments on sportscenter. It’s the only news about the Pistons that made the on-air commentary.

I’ve given him the benefit of the doubt long enough. I even argued he could help us off the bench.

I was wrong. He’s the Canswer, not the Answer.

========

About the Playoffs: Last night we sealed the deal in that we know we can’t beat the Cavs in a seven-game series. They shot horribly and played bad overall. We should have won but folded in the final minutes, losing the season series 3-1.

To be quite honest, I’m not sure I even want to watch a Playoff series against Cleveland. I’m afraid it would be too painful.

Maybe a lottery pick would be better? Maybe we could get lucky and get a 1-5 pick, and Joe wouldn’t draft another Darko with it?

Iversons poor attitude about being BENCH player might affect entire TEAM. Might be good thing not JUST for team, but also for entire PROGRAM if he calls it QUITS for season and we see MORE bynum and afflalo. just epinion

I still think we could give Orlando a very tough series, but it seems unlikely we’ll be the 7th seed. AI needs to get the Marbury/Tinsley treatment now. Especially with the way Bynum is playing, we are not a better teamm with him around on or off the court and he’s obviously not going to be here next year, so just let him stay home.

brgulker…if we are in the lottery we could only move up to the 1-3 spots, not the 1-5. Given the fact that we’d have the 2nd best record of all non playoff teams, our chances of landing either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick is something like 1 in 100…but at least there would be a chance.

What do we honestly expect him to say? I think he should have played alot in the 3rd. I think we could have put that slight lead out of reach. But what do I know? I’m just a die-hard fan!

Jim, I agree about Orlando and have been hoping for them since it became obvious that we have no shot at the 4th seed (i.e., several weeks ago).

John W. Davis might be right, though, I think AI played well enough to earn more than 18 minutes, especially when he got hot in the second half.

But it’s so hard to pull for him when he blabs to the press about how unhappy he is.

Complaining to the media is the wrong course of action in this case. He hasn’t stuck with it long enough to have a platform to launch that particular argument anyway. We will never know how serious his back injury was, even though I am personally convinced it was in between a torn heartalige and a sore mangina.

Bring on next season and real Pistons ball.

/AI’s weak sack

Like brgulker, I’ve tried to stay reasonably hopeful about Iverson, and last night’s loss is hardly on him, but yeah, the attitude makes it really hard to be positive about him.

Whether Detroit gets pounded in the first round or barely misses the playoffs probably isn’t going to make a big difference in draft picks or otherwise for next year. The point is, ever since Iverson arrived, the Pistons have had a roster that didn’t fit together well. Too many good guards, not enough consistently good big men, skills and styles that don’t mesh quite right. It’s fixable for next year, but it will take more than a little tinkering.

Here’s what annoys me about AI coming out with this latest quote- Every player that isn’t a “Star” or “Superstar” has to deal with not always playing as many minutes as their performance in any particular game might deserve (although obviously AI still thinks of himself as a “Star”), is it really that hard for AI to put himself in someone else’s shoes, realize that he’s not the only player going through it, and just suck it up?

How many times has Bynum played well and then still got taken out because of his role in the rotation? Or on the occasions when Amir is playing well and positively impacting the game, he still gets taken out, it’s largely the same thing with Max, and Afflalo, and Hermann, and around the league there are tons of guys who on any night will deserve more minutes than they actually get… And how many of those guys complain about it? How many times has Bynum griped to the media? It took Max a handful of DNP-MCIAFI to even say a single word to the media, and even then he didn’t take it where AI did.

Now if there’s something to complain about, this is it: for this season AI’s been paid more than 30 times what we’ve paid Bynum… Seriously, 21.9m vs. 0.72m. How ridiculous is it for AI to not have even the slightest amount of self-awareness and realize there are players who want/need (by “need” I mean- they haven’t played and been paid enough to set themselves up for life the way AI has) the playing time just as much as he does, but they still don’t complain when they get taken out, even if they were playing well. It’s just part of the NBA and is something lots of players go through, without public complaint.

AI’s completely lost me with this, what an utterly selfish asshole.

I haven’t posted on DBB in long while, so here’s my post:

DEACTIVATE IVERSON IMMEDIATELY!!!

“Get through this” killed me. Get through a temporary back injury and 21 million. Right Allen. What an ordeal.

All that talk about doing whatever’s best for the team was bull.

“Getting through this” is exactly what the Pistons and their fanbase have to do until next season. Then we can focus on the team again, without a drama queen starting shit.

AIIAFI

Yeah AI is overpaid at this point in his career, yes his comments showed a lack of overall judgment considering massive pay discrepancy vs. on-the-floor production.

From what I have seen, Bynum and AI seem to be a nice fit together; and I wouldn’t mind seeing less of ‘currently’ over-hyped sucky dribble out the shot clock stuckey in favor of bynum. But to hell with it, Cancer sounds go great with Answer and it’s popular to hate on AI so maybe if him and Roscoe hadn’t gone to a club 2 weeks ago we are a 1 seed.

Could you imagine our suckage had Dice actually stayed in Denver?

He’s been one of the few bright spots this season — his loyalty, effort, and production.

Without him, it would have been hard to cheer for this team.

So, had Dice not chosen to be loyal (to a team that traded him away, no less), this season would have been an even worse mess.

Why doesn’t Joe D take more heat for this?

Iverson: I can’t believe you only played me 18 minutes Michael. I trusted you Michael. You have betrayed that trust. I feel like you’ve stabbed my soul with a salt covered lance. pops Lexapro

MCIAFI (translated – I’m not even going to try Boney’s craft): Well Allen, I think that we were going to try to win. We wanted to score points and stop the other team from scoring points. But in the end it didn’t work out.

Iverson: laughs You may have noticed me laughing Michael. Believe me Michael. That wasn’t laughter of joy. It was laughter of sorrow. Didn’t think there was such a thing did you? I didn’t realize it either, not until all emotion plunged into the dark abyss created by your lies. All my laughter is is an escape from the tears. chases Valium down with whiskey

Michael: See it all came down to which team played harder. And we tried hard to play hard, but it just didn’t work out. That’s the way it goes sometimes.

Iverson: Don’t try to comfort me! Don’t even look at me! I’ll never trust another man again! Now I’ve got friends who understand the way I feel. None of you really care about me! Not even Petey – where is he in my darkest hour? cuts self

Michael: Want me to call Datman for you? Na na na na na na na na Datman! Datman!

…fake dialogue has run its course, right?

Maybe until a has-been superstar says something like “This is a bad time for me mentally. I’m just trying to get through it without starting a bunch of nonsense. … I’m just trying to laugh as much as I can man to stop from crying.”

Thank god we got that Philly win.

I’m a long time AI fan dating when he won me over with his play vs. the UConn Huskies but at this point I see him and see 2009 cap $$$. That’s sad but that’s the way it is. It doesn’t have to be that way but it’s the rare human being that accepts change, especially change that comes through aging. Look at every boxer that keeps unretiring to fight again. Tommy Hearns once knocked out Roberto Duran twice in the first round. That was in 1984. The Tommy Hearns fighting in 2006 wasn’t really the same fighter, you know? I’m not saying AI is that far gone but he’s also not the champ anymore. I accept that he was injured and coming back but come back as a team player. It’s almost playoff time and this telenovela shit should have been retired along time ago.

I was at the game last night, in my Wallace jersey (and was shown as a Dunce on the jumbotron) However, I sat steps from the piston bench and let me say AI was more concerned with people talking to him from a few rows back than he was with the game…….when Curry took him out he threw his heat pack and towel at Arnie Cander, and slapped his “hurt self” into his seat like my kids do. Anyway my rant comes with a question. I understand the Stuck will be leader of this team, but why when Will was so hot and unstoppable with both the dribble drive and the jump shot did he not go back into the game for AI? A cold and not playing very well Stuckey got put in and could not play defense or make a shot. Curry seams to make horrible decisions when he does sub. Max gets taken out when on fire a lot also. At this stange in the season why are the guys who are playing well and hard taking bench seats in support of superstars who are hurt, whiny, and playing badly? Curry needs to decide what guys and when and be decisive about it.

I’m as high on Stuckey as anyone, but I don’t think it’ll stunt his growth (and it may help it) for him to cede some more minutes to AI for the 13 or so games that are left this season.

I think it’s more like 8-9 games.

And you’re assuming AI will be better than Stuckey.

Stuckey’s been bad, but AI’s coming from a month off. It’s hard to say which is worse at this point.

Holy crap, McCosky grilled AI (frankly, his comments warrant it, IMO)

Rushed him back? He left the team Feb. 26. Hardly anybody saw him again until last week. He didn’t do one single basketball-related exercise for a month. So he comes back, clearly rusty, clearly not in game shape, and he complains about playing 18 minutes on the front end of a back-to-back.

Unbelievable. Then he has the audacity to follow-up his rant by saying he doesn’t want to vent, that he’s trying to stay positive and focus on the big picture. The statement loses credibility when it comes after he’s already vented.

Iverson keeps saying things like, “because of who I am,” and, “a person with my resume and all the things I’ve done.” The issue isn’t what he’s done in the past, it’s what he’s done as a Piston, and that has been not much.

The sooner he realizes that he’s not the same guy, that he’s 33 and out of shape, the better off he will be. He didn’t play horribly Tuesday, but he did what he’s done pretty much all year — make critical mistakes at critical times.

………

How many times is Iverson going to dribble into a crowd and either fall down or pass the ball wildly out of bounds? How many free throws is he going to miss? How many different ways can the Pistons junk up their defense to protect him?

For him to complain about his minutes afterward was truly a window into his character.

And here’s another troubling part: His minutes aren’t ever going to be what he wants. He’s not going to play 35-plus minutes for this team. He doesn’t deserve them and the Pistons sure don’t need to put him out there to campaign for his next contract.

So what do they do? Let him go home and rest up for next season or deal with what could be a daily distraction for the next eight games? I vote the former.

I don’t buy AI’s injury. He hit the floor multiple times last night and didn’t even bat an eyelash. Anyone who had to take 4 weeks off because of such serious pain would have at least done the whole, “Damn. Is my back okay?” thing while getting up.

That being said, it doesn’t really matter. In the end, the only thing that matters is that we find a way to mesh and win some games. Maybe AI was faking, maybe he was really hurt — whatever. Now he’s back and we need to find a way to make it work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah… but isn’t he right?

Rip played nearly twice as many minutes and scored only two more points. He shot 28% and had 4 TO’s despite not doing all that much ball handling.

Stuckey shot 21% and managed one assist in his 26 minutes. The guy was out of control. Four times his shot was blocked. He took three 3’s – no one wants to see him shoot threes.

I mean, does anyone think A.I. shouldn’t have played more minutes? Shouldn’t have stayed in the game? And if so, why? Because he was having the best game? Because it was evident he was the only player that could find a decent shot in the 4th quarter?

To say talking to the media is unprofessional I also don’t get. To answer a reporter honestly? To say what anyone watching the game should have been thinking in the first place?

Also, all the comments over the last however long about how this team doesn’t need a superstar/diva and how we need to go back to “Detroit Basketball” are seriously insane. Detroit Basketball died when Ben Wallace left and we attempted to fill his shoes with Nazr. In other words we tried to replace the best defensive player in the league with a below average center. Then we replaced him with Brezec and the next thing you knew we gave up on replacing him all together. That’s how “Detroit Basketball” died. Joe Dumars killed it by not making a single significant move since the 2005 Finals. You’re not a great team president when you watch a team decline five straight years and do nothing but add backup SF’s that suck. Remember when we lost in the 06, 07, and 08 EC Finals? That was the death of “Detroit Basketball”. Allen Iverson isn’t the death of it he was suppose to be two things. First, for this season, a scoring prescience that would change our team. And, in the case it didn’t work out, a huge expiring contract. Dumars, albeit four years late, realized that trying to run the team under the same philosophy but without a historically dominant defensive prescience to make it all work isn’t going to work without that player. People forget that it was because Ben that Tayshaun became such a good defensive player. If he got beat off the dribble, he didn’t really get beat because a Wallace was there. Today, Tayshaun’s defense is great on the ball but but people just try to take him to the hole. (See: LeBron scoring 25 straight points).

As far as not needing a super-star to win a championship. Let’s take a look at the best players on championship winning teams over the last thirty years: Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Duncan, Wallace, Duncan, Shaq/Kobe (x3), Duncan/David Robinson, Jordan (x3), Hakeen, Jordan (x3), Isiah (x2), Kareem/Magic (x2), Bird, Kareem/Magic, Bird, Dr. J/Moses, Kareem/Magic, Bird, Kareem/Magic. As you can clearly see by this list of the best players to ever play the game (sans Garnett who is still a without a doubt Hall of Famer) having a superstar is amazingly helpful, if not required. Yes, 2004 was an exception. But what makes more sense to model a team after what wins 29 out of 30 times or what happened once out of 30 times. Plus, I think Ben deserves a place in that class because, while he wasn’t great long enough to be in the talks of the best defensive player ever, I still think he may have put up the most dominant five years of defense in the league history.

Teams need super-stars, the Pistons have been flanked by one for most of their history. I’m not claiming AI has been that guy for us, or could have ever been, but I’m saying that “Detroit Basketball” needed to die for this team to have a chance – and that’s it been dead for three years before AI even got here.

Re: McClosky
“How many times is Iverson going to dribble into a crowd and either fall down or pass the ball wildly out of bounds?”

Less times than Stuckey and Hamilton evidently.

“How many free throws is he going to miss?”

I believe two. Oh, shit, those two free throws are why we lost the game. God, McClosky is a savant.

“How many different ways can the Pistons junk up their defense to protect him?”

Probably not as many ways as Rasheed Wallace junks it up and nobody says anything, although it has cost us playoff series and championships.

“The issue isn’t what he’s done in the past, it’s what he’s done as a Piston, and that has been not much.”

Leading the team in assists and steals and being second in team scoring doesn’t count as all that much. So, by that standard, Chauncey Billups never did that much as a Piston either. Not defending AI as being anything close to what Billups was to this team – but it’s ridiculous statement.

“He didn’t play horribly Tuesday, but he did what he’s done pretty much all year — make critical mistakes at critical times.”

He didn’t play horribly? Wow, that’s kind. Being the only guard to shoot for over 50% – have the second most points on the team in very limited minutes. Make critical mistakes at critical times? Really? When would these critical mistakes be? His turnover when Will Bynum cut to the basket instead of getting setup for the shot, after which Bynum pointed at himself. Crucial times? McClosky couldn’t sprint from free throw line to free throw line without having a stroke.

Juicebox:

On the one hand, you’re preaching to the choir. I think everyone has said that AI should have played more last night. When the rest of the team is sucking, and AI is playing well, the move is obvious.

Talking to the media is fine; it’s what he said and frankly how he said it that’s a problem. You don’t go to the media with the team’s dirty laundry. If you have a problem with the coach or teammates, then man up and go to them directly.

It would have been one thing to say, “Obviously, this is tough for me. I’ve been a career starter, and this is a new role. But I’m willing to accept it for the good of this team and the future of the franchise.”

He did say some of those things, but he didn’t stop there.

He just couldn’t resist rambling about his ‘resume’, blah, blah, blah. As an aside, if his resume had multiple championships on it, then that’s one thing. All he has is a bunch of points scored.

Of course, he’s a competitor, and he wants to play. But guess what, before anyone becomes an NBA player, they are a star player at some level. They were stars in high school. They were stars in college. They were stars overseas. Etc.

Every NBA player has to adjust his role for the good of the collective whole — and no one else on this roster is whining about it other than him.

=====

About star players: Yes, I think you are mostly right. The Detroit championships were exceptions, not the rules (and I would throw the Bad Boys in with the 04 ‘ship, because I think the Bad Boys were mostly team-oriented and not necessarily built around Zeke’s stardom).

But lest you forget, we were inches from winning a second title. And even as recently as last season, it’s hard to say what might have been had CB been healthy. A healthy Billups might have pushed us past Boston — it’s all speculation, obviously.

=====

Finally, I think you are partly right and partly wrong about the death of Detroit Basketball.

This franchise — when it has been successful — has been built around tough-nosed defense and team-oriented offense.

While this particular era might be over (Sheed, Dice, etc.), I don’t think Joe D is about to construct a team that’s built on an entirely different model.

If we do sign some big players, I still think we’ll be built on good defense and team-oriented offense. Those are fixtures of the franchise.

And, frankly, Cleveland is much the same way. Yes, they have the most talented player in the game, but they play damn good D, and they’ve got very good pieces around him.

lol how about running a fast break jumping in the air and passsing it backwards to no one. That was horrible.

The next time I read anything that our AutoBot and apparent bedfellow McCocksey says is the next time I deform to fake hilarious dialogue.

As has been said multiple times- McCocksey is fed statements from up top (or so he believes are from up top) and runs with them because of his supposed access.

Iverson, believe it or not, is aware of what his salary situation means to the team- he is also aware of the certain probability that he will not be back with this squad next year. The fact that, despite his injury, he is balls to the wall when he plays, I am content with. You put a player on the floor and ask him to execute and play to win. After a career of playing-to-win and fortunate lack-of-injury, you don’t suddenly morph into an imposter who plays-to-lose so that the people who haven’t yet grasped the business end and player dynamics of the chauncey billups trade can regurgitate half-assed ‘get this thug outta here’ arguments. Why fuel the fire when you know that Matt Watson and McCocksey’s army are already standing with torches at your door?

Tayshaun has been healthy for the first half of his career in the league, if he gets an untimely injury somewhere down the line are people going to burn him at the stake; undoubtedly, no. Regardless of personality traits, both players play to win- one is the scene, one is behind the scene. While AI’s media bitching is unfortunate, I can’t help but believe this guy will do all he can to win the game for his team while he is on the floor.

/dick joke, fake michael curry talk, iverson sucks, the end

Wolf – Laugh, friend. Laugh to keep from crying. Like Iverson.

If Joe D. isn’t about to construct a team based on a different model – than why sign A.I. (who doesn’t fit at all) and why not sign anyone else in the the last four years that could fill the roles of that model.

Looking at what Dumars has done it’s almost as if he thinks it is more important to replace Darvin Ham than it is to replace Ben Wallace. He’s put a lot of different people is that Darvin Ham role, but as far the Center position – not so much.

In 04 – Ben, Sheed, Memo
In 05 – Ben, Sheed, McDyess – Dumars did good
In 06 – Nazr, Sheed, McDyess – Not such a good job
In 07 – Webber, Sheed, McDyess – Not such a good job
In 08 – Sheed, McDyess, Maxiel – Didn’t do anything
In 09 – Kwame, McDyess, Sheed – Didn’t really do anything

Especially considering the age of McDyess and Rasheed, Dumars has not done enough to keep the old team philosophy in tact. Couple that with bringing in A.I. – I’m not convinced Dumars idea of this team is that same “Detroit Basketball” philosophy – maybe seeing great (but not excellent) versions of it fail to three different teams over the last three playoffs has changed his mind.

If you take LeBron off of Cleveland that team doesn’t make the playoffs – the 04 team you could have taken any of the starters off and we wouldn’t have won a championship, but we would have made the playoffs – I don’t find them that comparable.

I’d laugh but I’m 2 acts into my fake michael curry halftime pep-talk 3-act play

@wolf blitzer and Juicebox:

I can tell that you guys are enjoying this opportunity to show your heroic contrarianism, but seriously, what are you both talking about? AI dug his own grave with those statements, he didn’t need McCosky to write an article for any person with a brain to realize that AI is being a selfish idiot. Lots of players don’t get the minutes they deserve in any particular game, how many of them complain to the media afterward? It’s really not that complicated.

@avril lavigne: it certainly isn’t that complicated. players vent after games. watch any post-game press conference. the simple fact that heightened emphasis is placed on AI because the pistons aren’t playing for their 7th consecutive eastern conference finals-as of yet, is what gets my inner bebounds going.

@wolf:

:) good one. seriously, i lol’ed. Anyway, did you think that the “heightened emphasis placed on AI” might have something to do with the fact that the downgrade from Billups to AI has been a significant (though not the only) cause of our collapse this season?

Also, this is a beauty- “players vent after games…” Ummmm. Okay. But not many players say, “How many minutes did I play? It seemed way, way, way less than that. Eighteen minutes? Come on, man. I can play 18 minutes with my eyes closed and with a 100-pound truck on my back. It’s a bad feeling, man. I’m wondering what they rushed me back for? For that?”

wolf, I understand you and Juicebox are having a good time playing the role of the big bad contrarians, but just give it a rest. There’s no logical way to defend AI on this one, he went up to the mic, talked a bunch of b.s. and made himself look like a selfish jerk.

wolf blitzer: 100% agreement. Rip said some nasty stuff right when he found out he was going to the bench. AI is saying some nasty stuff right when he found out he might just be getting less minutes than Stuckey and Bynum in a game where he was doing more good for the Pistons than both of them combined. I don’t blame Rip and AI for speaking their mind one bit. Is it better to tow the company line? Sure, it creates less havoc and shows more restraint, but he without sin cast the first stone, man.

Specifically in AI’s case as opposed to Rip’s, the Pistons have totally failed the dude in his tenure here. If we knew in our lives that we could get work elsewhere in our chosen industry and our public words toward our boss whose been jerking us around wouldn’t cost us any future money or job security, would we stay quiet? Might make us feel better to blow off a little steam.

@Gabe

+1

We’re going to get a good rotation player in the draft and we’re going to nab at least one “star” big this summer. We resign Dyess and/or Sheed to come off our bench (hopefully both). Our guard rotation is set, in my opinion, with Stuck, Rip, AA, and Bynum (depending on who we draft). I’ve said over and over that we need to package Amir with our first round pick to move up and try to get the most value possible, probably mid-lottery (fingers crossed for Thabeet). We end up with a rotation that looks a little like this:

Stuckey/Bynum
Rip/AA
Tayshaun/Hermann/Draft pick?
“Star Big”/Dyess/Max/Sheed
“Star Big”/Sheed/Kwame

Obviously the “bigs” situation is up in the air— depends on who we get, whether they’d play the 4 or 5 more— but we’re going to be a pretty deep team with a lot of veteran experience in the frontcourt and a lot of speed in the backcourt.

Definitely wouldn’t mind picking up a 3-pt assassin though… (Ben Gordon)

/awaiting flames

Gabe: AI throughly outplayed Stuckey and Bynum last night, two players who he’s already better than and will be when all parties’ careers are over. But he still got less minutes than them last night.

Joel: a) Thabeet is going 2 at best, 5 at absolute worst.

Joel: Thabeet has bust written all over him. Give me Cole Aldrich instead, who might be available when the Pistons do pick.

I don’t mind trading Amir, if the Pistons aren’t going to play him and can get something of value in exchange. However, Sheed and Dice are aging and Kwame can’t be counted on.

@Joel:
Amir’s $3.6 million which comes off the books in 2010 could be the financial tipping point to signing a big name— or a role player that rounds out a potential contending team.

A higher draft pick would be nice, but it might be too risky. It could possibly impact our financial superiority in the coming free agent classes. A draft pick is still a roll of the dice, whereas a free agent purchase is much more educated.

@LB:
I agree that AI played better than Stuckey or Hamilton last night (I definitely don’t think AI “thoroughly outplayed” Bynum, but that’s beside the point). IMO the issue is, lots of players don’t get the minutes they “deserve” in any particular game, but most of them don’t complain about it to the media. As for Rip, he at least sucked it up and came off the bench for a couple weeks before he went public with a complaint, and he when he finally did, he didn’t do so in a derisive way, unlike how AI handled the situation.

Also, AI accused the Pistons of “rushing him back,” like they’re asking him to risk playing through a serious injury or something, but at the same time he says that the 18 minutes he played is nothing for him, as if he’s fully healthy… Which is it, is he hurt, and therefore needs to have his minutes carefully monitored, or is he healthy and can go back to playing 40+ minutes a game?

Let’s pretend that Thabeet never learns how to do anything more than block shots, rebound, and dunk.

He’s 7’3" and ATHLETIC. He can actually run. Like reasonably fast. All I want is a guy who plays defense, rebounds, and dunks when he’s open. Don’t tell me that guy can’t be one of the best in the league at those things. Remember when Dwight Howard was a rookie? He looked like a retarded 7ft child. Remember when Kevin Garnett was a rookie? He looked like a 7ft retarded child. The number of 7footers that take less than 3 years to develop into a quality big is a pretty much a Hall of Fame list. At worst, in my opinion, Thabeet ends up being Mutombo 2.0. And if I remember correctly, last time we won a championship we had an elite interior defender.

I saw Thabeet play at DePaul in February, and I can’t stress how impressive physically the kid is. Yeah, he’s skinny, but so were Dwight/KG/Bynum/etc. when they came into the league. You know what those guys couldn’t do? High-five both sides of the tunnel AT THE SAME TIME when they head to the locker room. FREAK. If the only expectations you put on a freakishly athletic 7’3" kid are to block shots and rebound, how could he possibly be a bust?

Joel, can the Pistons trade Amir to move up to a team that’s over the cap? I’m not sure but I don’t think so. So that limits who they can swap picks with. They might be able to find a taker but I doubt it.

Juicebox:

I agree with much of what you say, but dag nab it, I don’t care if I’m in a minority, I still say getting Chris Webber was a good/smart move, that Webber did help the Pistons considerably during the regular season, and while he didn’t have a great or even “good” series against the Cavs, the loss wasn’t primarily on him. Obviously, he wasn’t the defensive presence Ben was, but it did help the Pistons offense considerably not to be playing 4 on 5 all the time.

Is Thabeet Amir-athletic, or actually athletic? Zing!

“Also, AI accused the Pistons of "rushing him back," like they’re asking him to risk playing through a serious injury or something, but at the same time he says that the 18 minutes he played is nothing for him, as if he’s fully healthy… Which is it, is he hurt, and therefore needs to have his minutes carefully monitored, or is he healthy and can go back to playing 40+ minutes a game?”

I think everyone’s got to admit that this is a good point.

After seeing how well the Sheed/Dyess starting backcourt worked last year, and even this year, does anybody else thing we might have been more successful in ‘07 if we’d brought Webber off the bench? Because I LOVED his offensive game and what he brought in passing ability from the top of the key, but he killed us on defense. Maybe if Webber and Max had come in together with the second unit (as opposed to Dyess and Max), we might have been a better defensive AND offensive team. Just a thought. But I did like Webber when he was here. For the most part.

Toledo Joe, CWebb was worth the money he was paid (veteran’s minimum). That’s all you can ask for.

@ wolf: no one here has ever questioned AI’s effort on the floor. We’ve wondered about his injury, complained about his bad defense, and questioned why Joe would ever bring a player like him here.

I don’t like AI’s game at all, but I have no problem cheering for him in a stons uni, and I praise how hard he plays.

But the fact is, it hasn’t worked.

======

@everyone:

I don’t think it’s completely accurate to say that AI is a downgrade from CB and that’s the reason we’re struggling.

Instead, I would put it this way: Stuck is a downgrade at PG from CB; AI is a square peg fitting into a round hole; we have glaring holes at backup SF (nothing new); we have too many guards and not enough minutes to go around; and finally, we have aging big men and our young guys have underachieved.

To be honest, players rarely vent about playing time after games — perhaps in part because complaining about playing time is a little awkward when you’re getting dressed five feet away from the guy that you’re implying played too much.

Garrett, he can make slam dunk shots.

@Garrett

In person? Mother fucker’s Tyrus Thomas Athletic. Scary. Faster, quicker, and more hops than anybody over 7’1" in the NBA right now (Dalembert, Hibbert, Yao, Dekembe,) and at least as quick as Bynum/Dwight/Oden/Chandler with more length to go along with it.

@gabe
I’d love Chauncey back with this quad, but you calling me out with this well-thought out reasoning:

“Also, this is a beauty- ‘players vent after games…’ Ummmm.Okay. But not many players say….”

Ummmm.Okay, Gabe. Stop right there my little friend, players do vent after games, especially in close losses. I’ve watched enough NBA TV to know that despite what MW implies above, whether it be playing time, coaching strategy, officials etc… players do, in fact, show frustration at the microphone after games.

That being said, and has been driven home here- if you are a top 10 (top 5?) active scorer IN LEAGUE HISTORY who is known around the league as a guy who lays his body on the line every game, and despite such recklesness has suffered one serious injury in 13+ seasons of heavy minutes— you sir are entitled to vent AFTER PLAYING RELATIVELY WELL WHEN COMPARED TO THE PRODUCTION OF OUR OTHER GUARDS.

Sure AI could’ve said, “Hey, I didn’t make the most of my 18 minutes, that’s why we lost.” But not everybody is as perfect as some DBB commenters believe themselves to be. It’s not exactly what you want to hear from AI, sure- but by no means should he be blamed for showing frustration in that he believed, if given the opportunity, he could’ve done more to help the team he plays for. It’d be one thing if he had shot 8 air balls, racked up 5 fouls, and dished out 76 turnovers, and complained about minutes—but his name isn’t Smush Parker, and it certainly isn’t Gabe.

Again, I’d prefer the consistency and production of Billups, but AI didn’t trade Billups- the front office did; and until it comes out that AI orchestrated this trade so he could be in Detroit for the Final Four, I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as he plays tough and to win, just like he always has.

@Toledo Joe:
and while [webber] didn’t have a great or even "good" series against the Cavs, the loss wasn’t primarily on him.

You’re right on that one. The 07 playoffs loss to the Cavs was all Chauncey. I get sick to my stomach just thinking about it…

That being said, and has been driven home here- if you are a top 10 (top 5?) active scorer IN LEAGUE HISTORY

(top 21?)

I am not old enough to remember everyone on that last, but I suspect that the majority of them have won championships.

Personally, I value winning championships more highly than career scoring totals.

Which is why I’d rather have a guy like Ben Wallace (in his prime) than AI (in his prime or currently) on my roster.

@wolf:

???? You’re going a little off the rails, so if after this post we still can’t see eye to eye I’ll let it rest and just say we should agree to disagree.

But here goes my final try:

I’ve already said that AI played better than Stuck and Rip, and that AI “deserved” more minutes. If his complaining had been limited to saying, “I wish I’d had more of a chance to help us win in the 4th quarter,” or something along those lines, then this would be a non-issue. The problem was how derisive he was of playing non-star minutes, basically saying that playing anything other than 40+ minutes is beneath him.

Also, sorry if this seems conceited, but I’m gonna re-post something I wrote earlier, because the point still stands, and it was one of the things that bothered me the most about AI’s quote:

AI accused the Pistons of "rushing him back," like they’re asking him to risk playing through a serious injury or something, but at the same time he says that the 18 minutes he played is nothing for him, as if he’s fully healthy… Which is it, is he hurt, and therefore needs to have his minutes carefully monitored, or is he healthy and can go back to playing 40+ minutes a game?

The most frustrating part of this years team is that it didn’t have to be a waste. When the only loss is Billups but you gain Iverson, you gain a full-time role for Stuckey, you gain a surprisingly good Kwame Brown, you get the best McDyess we’ve had since 05, you find (at season’s end of course) a solid backup PG, Maxiel and Hermmann have stepped into relevant roles at this period of the season. One would think, despite the injuries, that this years team should/could of been better than last years team.

Somehow Larry Brown has a team of Felton/Diaw/Bell/Okafor/Wallace playing better than a team with Allen Iverson/Richard Hamilton/Tayshaun Prince/Rasheed Wallace (combining for 19 All-Star appearances) along with a young talent group of Stuckey/AA/Maxiel/Amir/Bynum – that could have limited the “stars” minutes.

If at the seasons end the blame doesn’t fall on Curry and Dumars (at least for the Pistons yearly deterioration) and onto Iversons that would be a huge mistake.

Shinons: I think whoever made that quote about top 5 scoring meant scoring average. He is currently number 5 in average behind Jordan, Kareem, Baylor and Shaq. Total points doesn’t really matter as much as average as it leans towards big men scorers who play longer than they should (see: Karl Malone).

You know whether a.I.was hurt or not the last 4weeks is irrelevent . For the first time since the trade of Billups it was quiet on this site about whether A.I. played enough and whether he should have played more then someone else. we got back to talking about pistons basketball and quality post about the pistons , which is why I started reading this site three years ago.A.I. is back two games and it starts again , i’m sick of A. I. and what he’s done he’s done to this site , Stuckey , Bynum and Afflayo are the future back court of the pistons and whether they are having a good game or not you have to play them alot of minutes to see if they’re going to develop or not, we can’t win with the guys we got , we need to play the young guys and sit the guys that are not going to be here including A.i..

@ Juicebox:

I agree with everything you just said.

I would only reiterate the following:

CB > Stuckey.

CB > AI.

The problem is not that AI < CB as much as it is Stuckey < CB.

And frankly, for the purposes of “Detroit Basketball”:

MFWB (this season) + CB > AI + Stuckey

In my opinion, we can overcome this obstacle if MCIAFI could ever figure out a rotation that put players in a position to succeed.

Pairing AI and MFWB is nonsense, because their games are too similar.

Pairing AI and Stuck is nonsense, because their games are too similar.

Pairing Stuck/AI/MFWB with Rip/AA/Hermann makes the most sense — and that means that somebody’s minutes have to be cut.

IMO, and as much as I don’t like saying this, if we are going to make any splash in the playoffs this year, then those minutes have to be cut from MFWB and AI (I don’t hate saying that part as much!).

For us to have a snowball’s chance against the Cavs or Celts in a seven-game series, then AI needs to get and stay hot in 20-30 minutes per game. If he can do that — and manage not to be a canswer to the team in the process — then we still have some kind of crazy outside shot at being good.

Unfortunately, AI’s not giving us a lot of opportunities to believe he will relish that role.

“If at the seasons end the blame doesn’t fall on Curry and Dumars (at least for the Pistons yearly deterioration) and onto Iversons that would be a huge mistake.”

Jugu is right. I think they split the pie 3 ways though.

The main reason I still hope to see AI get extended playoff minutes is because the guy gets calls – unlike Bynum and Stuckey. Bynum and Stuckey could get clobbered and have it be a no call, but because of Iverson’s stature in the league he gets a lot of the tick-tack fouls that the LeBrons and Kobes do. Being as fouls and getting to the line, as well as defense, is what the playoffs are all about I don’t see the point in not utilizing that especially at the end of games. To me, for this year, I think Bynum should be the odd man out – despite how well he has played over the last couple weeks – I don’t think we can justify the development of next seasons backup point guard over playing Allen Iverson. We can use that reasoning for Stuckey, but I don’t think we can use it for Bynum.

“You’re right on that one. The 07 playoffs loss to the Cavs was all Chauncey. I get sick to my stomach just thinking about it…”

MP, don’t forget about Sheed leading a player’s revolt and trying to call defensive plays.

/never misses a moment to call out the team’s highest paid player

@shine on

career leading scorer, active, i.e., currently playing the game. I believe AI is most definitely not the 21st on that list. Kobe, LeBron might be ahead of him, but I doubt there are 19 other Scalabrines before him.

@ gabe

I’m not Amtrak, and thank you for graciously agreeing to see eye-to-eye in the future.

I can sleep easy tonight.

Well, Scott Hastings > Allen Iverson.

At least Scott brought the jokes.

@Quick Darshan:
Rasheed actually played decently that series, close enough to his season average but he hustled his ass of. Rasheed’s antics didn’t sway that series one way or another, we were already laying in the coffin just waiting for the final nail at that point.

If Billups hadn’t turned the ball over more than he assisted, if he had done his homework on Boobie Gibson… okay shit, no more of that. Hindsight is pointless when we’re in the midst of the current situation!

Allen Iverson is performing the most delicious career suicide since Latrell Sprewell.

/optimism

/but because of Iverson’s stature in the league he gets a lot of the tick-tack fouls that the LeBrons and Kobes do./

If AI starts hitting his ’throws consistently I have no problem with that.

CAN THE CANSWER!!!

Juice Bynum is the backup point guard granted , but at the moment he’s playing the best basketball of the four guards , shooting and assist wise . In the cleveland game he made a big mistake near the end when we were up 2 points when he allow someone to get behind him , and steal the ball which led to a layup and a tie ball game,but he won’t make that mistake again . I can’t say the same about A.I. when he goes into three guys gets caught in the air and throws the ball to no one which he will do again .granted he does get alot of calls Stuck and bynum don’t get , but he misses alot of free throws. one more thing Bynum is our best point guard at the moment, but there’s agood chance he will be our future point guard with stuck moved to 2 , he’s already ahead of stuck in decision making.

AI IZ DA BAST NBDAY BASKITBAWL PLAYA EVARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

YU DUYS DON NO ABUT DIZ AI KAT MAN

HE BEEZ DA BES PLAYA EVARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Unless Stuckey becomes a 3 point threat, he’s likely not going to move the 2 guard spot.

I feel so dirty for saying nice things about him last night, Boney.

No more Porter for me.

@Boney- Stuck could move to SG if we find a tall-ish PG who can shoot lights out from deep (Nick Calathes?).

I wouldn’t mind seeing the Pistons move up to grab Stephen Curry of Davidson. He’d fit pretty good next to Stuckey on a team that spreads both the scoring and distributing around. The Pistons could probably get him with their #1 and their last #2 pick.

IN FAVOR OF KEEPING AI:

If AI on the floor Afflalo has to be on the floor. No Stuckey, no Bynum. A big guard who plays great defense and doesn’t need shots (but can score). Bring Sheed off the bench with them along with Amir/Max and a 3. AI gets to take all the shots he wants for the 2nd quarter and the start of the 4th. If he’s rolling, keep his whole unit out there. If not, Rip etc come back in WITHOUT AI. It’s two utterly different looks.

MC is the cause of the disaster this season. He’s never put this team and ESPECIALLY Iverson in a position to succeed and he is consistently outcoached.

“MC is the cause of the disaster this season. He’s never put this team and ESPECIALLY Iverson in a position to succeed and he is consistently outcoached.”

Satchel, I want your brevity skills. MC did put AI in a position to succeed w/AI-Rip-Tay-Sheed-Kwame as the starters but he pulled the plug on it so fast (12 games) it seems like it never happened.

QD: Sheed isn’t the highest paid player on this team anymore! The guy who makes the most money gets less minutes than Rodney Stuckey and Will Bynum and is a bad teammate if he points out how absurd such a concept is.

Win-loss on that combo was 5-7. It wasn’t “pulled the plug on it so fast.” It didn’t work.

/trufax

OT- because Stuck’s been getting (deservedly) a good amount of flack lately, and because I just figured out how to do it, I made a little statistical comps thing for Stuck according to his height, age, TS%, Ast , and Rebound %. He’s definitely been struggling, but guards with his size, passing and rebounding ability have a good historical track record, although Stuck’s at the low end with a lot of the numbers. By far the closest comp is Gary Payton, who has an almost identical PER, TS, Reb%, and Ast%. Just food for thought…

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&year_min=1980&year_max=2009&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=21&age_max=24&height_min=74&height_max=77&lg_id=NBA&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=G&qual=&c1stat=ts_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=.498&c2stat=ast_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=25&c3stat=trb_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=6.5&c4stat=mp&c4comp=gt&c4val=2000&order_by=per

Being in-between Gary Payton and Jeff Hornacek isn’t bad company.

Jeff Hornacek has a big nose

You know what they say about big noses.

Sauce: Good one Sauce, I’ve acknowledged that record in a previous thread. Sometimes things start slow, but you see these things, let’s call them “impressive flashes”, of success. These “impressive flashes” are denoted by the games played against @LAL, CLE, @SA. We soundly beat those 3 teams with that starting lineup. Do you remember when we started ‘06-’07 going 3-5? You probably don’t. We finished that year 53-29. “Trufax” or whatever.

Fuck yourself, LawyerBitch.

/goodone

Here, I even found for you where it was I mentioned it:

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2009-03-31/pistons-cavs-game-thread-2/#comment-177624

Sorry I hurt your feelings with my trufax. They are both true and facts.

I didn’t know Hornacek was jewish Sauce?

Bynum comps (is he the next Terrell Brandon, or Tyus Edney?):

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&year_min=1980&year_max=2009&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=24&age_max=26&height_min=63&height_max=72&lg_id=NBA&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=G&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=16&c2stat=ast_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=6&c3stat=ts_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=.500&c4stat=trb_per_mp&c4comp=gt&c4val=3&order_by=per

Congratulations, you’ve provided proof where you mentioned it before.

I provided that link for the sake of ‘recent’ commenting, and it supports my opinion, and that opinion is, “it didn’t work,” and I’m closer to the truth.

Only you would argue a result of 5-7 as a ‘good’ experiment to continue.

So, I continue, fuck you, you pedantic son of a bitch.

Sauce: So angry, so angry. Good thing you’re not in the game. You’d get a T. I’m just wondering did we beat Cleveland, the Spurs or the Lakers since then in any of the 5 tries we had?

This isn’t anger, LB, you ass clown. I suppose emoticons have great emotional content for you too, huh, you rat shit cockgoblin? :p

Sauce: I’m sorry, I got confused. I mistook inability to comprehend simple concepts for anger. I will try not to make the same mistake again.

Yeah, actually, you mistook your words as having fucking meaning on people who tuned you out a long time ago. The only time people should speak to you is when they’re calling you on your garbage. You’re a bigger charlatan than AI. Best step your nonsense elsewhere, LB.

Stop frontin’ you know yous a busta.

Sauce1977: The guy who no one ever thought was annoying. or. crazy.

LawyerBitch: The asshole who thought his opinion was so great, he categorically rejects logic from everyone telling him he’s wrong. Because he can’t be wrong. Ever.

Suck it, asshole.

Obviously, Lawyersucker is a FI too.

I like slam dunk shots. Who’s with me?

Matt,

It’s like the Titanic…

grab a bucket!

LBIAFI,

I never thought Sauce was crazy or annoying. I know that comes as a shock to you.