Remembering an Era: 2003-04

Hey Patrick, Pardeep, I was out of town for the publication of your last retrospective, just wanted to say how great it is to see your work on DBB. Awesome stuff, keep it coming!!

No mention of Mike James? He was part of the Rasheed for a bag of potato chips trade too.

RE: To the Tremaine Fowlkes’ stat line

That must of been back when the “expiring contract” was actually a real offensive force.

30 pts
52% FG
43% 3pt
7 ast

Those stats are just unheard of these days…

Sorry to do this, but I need to quickly hijack this thread.
I got my Michigan Travel Ideas: Official State Travel Guide and map in the post today. Only 293 days…

Oh and I never get tired of the block (I prefer the Maxiell block on Chandler though) ah good times.
As you were :)

Agreed on both block counts, Laughton. That Maxiell “Block of the Year” was amazing, but watching the surprise all over Reggie Miller’s face never ever gets old.

Another block I love was from a playoff game against the Heat (don’t remember when). Shaq was guarded by Big Ben and went up for a shot, but Ben jumped and brought his hand down on the ball, sending Shaq tumbling to the ground.

I would have liked some discussion of our bad ass bench that season.

Watching Lindsey and Mike James terrorize opposing back-up guards never, ever got old.

Quick Darshan:

My bad, I should have mentioned James a little more. But Pardeep, who is going to be doing the 2004-2005 season coming up, grew up in Toronto, and if you’re familiar with James’ Raptors tenure, you’ll know that even the mention of his name is painful, bringing back memories of like 7-for-32 games as he looked for his new contract. But you’re right, James was a big part of that trade as well.

Birdman:

The Ben block on Shaq I believe was in the 04-05 conference finals, but I agree, it was one of my favorites too.

Should have expressed thanks, not just criticism. This is a cool mini-series, and it is timely — because this era is clearly ending.

“Up Next: John Green single-handedly dismantles a very good Indiana Pacers team.”

John Green’s name on this board is “Mike Payne”, right?

Just watching those two video makes me feel so sad. All of the excitement and trill that comes with going deep in the playoffs may be missing for the next couple of years and its a bummer. I started watching the NBA/Pistons in the playoffs the year before against Orlando and have been thoroughly spoiled ever since.

These are great articles. They make me…sort of believe again.

I was living in Indianapolis until up to this year, so I loved those days when the Pistons-Pacers rivalry was…you know…relevant. And not in a “fighting for the 8 seed” sort of way. This was the year before my wife and I got married and we had absolutely no money but we’d watch all the games from the cheap cheap seats. And when they’d be in town for the playoffs or for games in Indy when they’d have the night before off, we would hang around downtown hoping to see one of the players. Fun times.

Ben’s block on Shaq was in Game 5 of the ’06 Conference Finals, where we sent the series back to Miami where we were easily bested. It was on the cover of USA Today. Epic.

Re: To the Ben Wallace on Shaq block

As Joel mentioned that was the ‘06 ECF and it was also Ben Wallace’s last game at the Palace.

And another block that was amazing was just last year, when Maxiell destroyed KG in the ECF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bBeGy5Lroo

The extension Maxiell got on that block was simply insane.

Let me revise, it was Ben Wallace’s last game at the Palace in a Pistons uniform.

Game 5 versus Jersey was the single best game I’ve ever seen live. I love the mention of the Palace crowds before they became lame, because my girlfriend, who wasn’t all that in to basketball at the time turned to me and in a raspy whisper said: “That was the most fun I’ve ever had. There is more energy in this building than a nuclear reactor.” That was after a 3-OT loss.

Thanks for bringing back the old-timey Stones memories.

Oh the Darko incident. I remember watching that draft at a local pub, and getting into a huge argument with my server about whether we should draft Darko at #2. We both knew he was GOING to be drafted second- I still think most any other team would have taken him- you have to gamble on the big men- but whether he SHOULD be taken is a different story. The waiter thought we should trade the pick straight up for Marcus Camby. I thought the waiter was an idiot. To this day, I owe the waiter an apology.

Cheers, fellas. It was a very good year.

Nice article, great memories. I’ll second the bit about the bench: Lindsey, James, Okur and Corliss. We never got their equals or equivalents again (even Lindsey wasn’t the same Lindsey as he aged).

Which brings me to my other quibble. I don’t really buy the “they thought they could flip a switch” problem. Detroit had one of the very best records in the league for several straight years. Nobody ever says that the other teams at or near the top of the league, who lost about as many games, thought they could “flip a switch.” And I don’t think Detroit really was obviously more talented than anybody else. In short, even the best teams lose some games they “shouldn’t,” and I don’t think Detroit was worse in this regard than other elite temams.

If anything, it got harder to play with the same defensive ferocity (i) with tired legs that came from playing more minutes which was a result of a weaker bench, and (ii) with some of the new rules; and then (iii) post-Ben.

If anything, it got harder to play with the same defensive ferocity (i) with tired legs that came from playing more minutes which was a result of a weaker bench, and (ii) with some of the new rules; and then (iii) post-Ben.

Not to mention the 20ish games per season that come with repeated trips deep into the playoffs.

The stons aren’t used to play just 82 games per season. For us, it’s more like 102.

That’s a lot of miles for a Motown car.

2003-04 was the peak of the “maximizing your ability” Pistons teams. I think part of the “flip the switch” analogy that got used so often with Pistons teams after that was a result of seeing the Pistons perform so efficiently in 2003-04.

I simply think the Pistons lost some of their focus after 03-04. You cannot replicate the focus and energy of a team who is a true underdog (not just a “proclaimed” underdog by the media) and has never won a championship before. After 03-04, the Pistons were neither true underdogs, or Championship virgins anymore.

That was the difference between winning and losing for them. They just didn’t have the pure talent to win games. They always had to work harder and out-execute their opponents.

The 2005-08 seasons weren’t really underachieving as they appeared to some. They were more akin to regression to the mean. Yes, there were other factors. Age (slightly compensated for by "experience), rule changes (F-U David Stern), and losing key bench production (we still miss Corliss, Memo, and Mike James).

Ultimately, though, I think this team squeezed every last drop out of itself in 2004 and was never able to summon the focus and strength to “squeeze” themselves that hard again.

I agree to the extent that Detroit was a team that, at least as compared to the other “elite” team, had to rely on effort — and often effort by all 5 guys at once — more than the pure talent of say, a Kobe, LeBron, or Wade.

But I still don’t see “trying to flip the switch” as a big problem for Detroit, as opposed to other elite teams. Did Detroit lose a bunch of playoff games because of this? Did they lose a lot more games in the playoffs in the past few years than most of the other elite teams? Heck, last year Boston was taken to 7 games in both the first rounds. Were they trying to flip a switch?

I would say Detroit squeezed themselves pretty hard in ‘04-’05 and came up just a bit short of beating an excellent Spurs team. ‘Sheed blew a defensive assignment which turned out to be crucial, but I don’t think that was a “flip the switch” problem. Twice since then they have lost to the eventual NBA champion (Miami and Boston). The Cavs series loss still hurts, but I think that was tired legs and no bench more than failing to flip a switch.

But I still don’t see "trying to flip the switch" as a big problem for Detroit, as opposed to other elite teams. Did Detroit lose a bunch of playoff games because of this? Did they lose a lot more games in the playoffs in the past few years than most of the other elite teams? Heck, last year Boston was taken to 7 games in both the first rounds. Were they trying to flip a switch?

I like your argument, and I think it has a lot of merit.

However, I think that especially since the 04-05 season, there has been a swagger that straddled the fine line between confidence and arrogance — and that perhaps more often than not, we found ourselves on the wrong side of that line.

03-04 and 04-05, there’s no question — this team was flipped on, and we were outstanding.

I would say Detroit squeezed themselves pretty hard in ‘04-’05 and came up just a bit short of beating an excellent Spurs team. ‘Sheed blew a defensive assignment which turned out to be crucial, but I don’t think that was a "flip the switch" problem. Twice since then they have lost to the eventual NBA champion (Miami and Boston). The Cavs series loss still hurts, but I think that was tired legs and no bench more than failing to flip a switch.

I agree. Tired legs and no bench (or a coach who wouldn’t play what bench we had in the playoffs?) were the big reasons we lost.

Having said that, post 04-05 and excluding the playoffs, there’s no doubt in my mind that we mailed a lot of games in during the regular season.

And maybe we even did in the Playoffs. The Cleveland series seems like a good example to me. We go up 2-0, and we forget to show up for two consecutive games. Now, maybe my memory is faulty because I’m soured by the loss — but that’s my clear impression of that series.

We went up 2-0 and didn’t sweat getting pounded in Cleveland — which ultimately came back to bite us on the rump.

EXECUTIVE ASSISTS LEADER: Joe Dumars, Detroit Pistons

Last season, this was hotly contested. Both Memphis’ Chris Wallace and Minnesota’s Kevin McHale were deserving, the former for gifting Pau Gasol to the Lakers and the latter for delivering Garnett to his pal Danny Ainge in Boston. This year, Dumars is a runaway winner after sending Chauncey Billups home to Denver for Iverson. Billups will get a lot of fifth-place votes for league MVP after the order he imposed on the Nuggets’ attack, while Iverson, well, we’ve already dealt with that. Maneuvering for cap space is one thing, but when a plan for the future so undermines the present — at a place where they’re accustomed to better — the price paid can be too high.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/04/14/awards/1.html

read the whole thing, the expiring contract got some hardware as well

Brgulker:

I doubt we disagree much. I got tired of the “if it ain’t rough, it ain’t right” stuff. Maybe I’m just trying to go contrary to the conventional wisdom. But to carry on:

I’m sure there were some nights when at least some Pistons starters, “mailed it in”; ‘Sheed, Chauncey, and Rip could certainly seem “cocky” at times. I’m just not convinced that mental lapses were a problem for Detroit more than other elite teams in the last several years. Again, since ‘03-’04, Detroit has always been up near the top of regular season wins; in several of the previous seasons Detroit would have won even more games but preferred (sensibly) to rest the starters down the stretch once the seeding had become clear. And obviously Detroit has been near the top in terms of W-L records in the playoffs in recent years.

So, was Detroit SO much better physically than other elite teams that we can only explain their roughly equal number of losses through some mental flaw of arrogance or laziness? I don’t see it.

I think it’s just as likely that Detroit suffered from tired legs, a stunningly sub-par bench, the fact that they relied a lot on jump shots since they had no consistent post scorer and jump shots just don’t fall some nights, Wade/Shaq peaking at the right time (and Wade getting some superstar calls), LeBron going completely nuts in a key game, and Boston being the best team in the NBA last year.

i think the irony of the flip the switch thing is it undermines the true achievement of the core. good players who played great as a team even through a problematic coaching change for five years. no superstar in a superstar driven sport. the true and honorable trait of TEAMWORK is ignored and undermined by the piston hating, star obsessed, hypocritical, church nanny, sport pundits with this slander. fuck them. and chauncey knew how to finish a game. at the free throw line.

because finishing games has been a little problematic this year.

I want to see someone recall the good ol’ days of 1989.

Great post. Brought a smile to my face and some chill bumps too.

I too was lucky enough to be that NJ game and will never forget the absolute euphoria that ensued for the entire break after Cbill hit that shot. Non stop yelling, high fiving, ranting “H#ly Sh#t that just happened!!!” over and over.

I’ll second (or third or fourth) that statement about the crowd. Those days were high fives all around the section around you. Something special.

I just remember leaving that game, without any voice, mentally exhausted. That M’fN red head Scababrini just icing the crowd throughout the OT’s.

But you know, I think that loss changed those guys. They were villainous deadly after that, taking it back to NJ and claiming it back.

Keep it up. Good stuff.