Cavs vs Pistons playoff schedule

i think dumarcurry should treat this series with a sense of adventure and experiment. but i am resigned to seeing dyess play the long minutes. i have been a big proponent of amir. i like the graphic but i don’t have the shirt. many on this site argue his shortcomings. but for me he represents the steadfast stubbornness of dumarscurry. i leave it to the x and o guys but the rotation who finished the chicago game went cold somewhere in the third quarter to my memory but stayed in the rest of the way. stubborn paralysis. what has been learned in this frustrating season of blown leads? that dyess has guts and guile? we knew that. that sheed is getting old and doesn’t like to post? we knew that. that kwame is limited? we knew that. etc….oh i forgot, and that a.i. press conferences enrage people. we knew that too.

this seems so forced…

Matt, I can tell your heart’s not in it…

I disagree, Boney!

The videos clearly show that Matt took (too much?) a lot of time to do this post.

I love the Mavs vs. GS highlights, PS. The most exciting playoff series I’ve ever watched, and I watched every minute. glorious.

======

On a serious note, I think we should throw some of our young guys into the mix to see how they stack up against an elite team — as a sort of barometer for where we might be next year without Dice/Sheed. What have we got to lose? Our dignity?

I say Detroit wins one game. I hope we make all the games competitive, and don’t have embarrassing meltdowns.

Pistons in 4.

don’t have embarrassing meltdowns.

I’d argue that if Sheed melts down again during this series, he’ll be nailing his own coffin in Detroit.

KG’s going to miss the playoffs. All we had to do was win ONE FUCKING HOME GAME AGAINST A .500 TEAM, and we couldn’t do it. Now we’re going to get swept while the Bulls go up against the shell of the former Celtics. FML

wow….. I guess we are all Lakers fans now… if the Cavs win the title, and Mo gets one and Andy.V and someone of those dudes… itll kill me,

@Joel- It’s a shame, but that was the ultimate proof that our “veteran leadership” doesn’t give a rats ass about winning anymore, at least not if it means playing with maximum effort. They just can’t be bothered.

I’d actually prefer to see the Nuggets get to the Finals, but I’m 100% positive they’ll get crushed by the Cavs. Alas, it is true— we’re all Lakers fans now.

Detroit in 3

“KG’s going to miss the playoffs.”

So much for the “we weren’t going to get past Boston anyway” rationale for trading Chauncey. We traded away a championship run for cap space.

pistons in 8

@Joel- It’s a shame, but that was the ultimate proof that our "veteran leadership" doesn’t give a rats ass about winning anymore, at least not if it means playing with maximum effort. They just can’t be bothered.

Effort wasn’t our problem this year.

It was bad coaching combined with injuries combined with bad chemistry combined with bad play.

Let’s not trick ourselves into thinking that we’re a better team than our record. The way we played all season, we definitely earned the 8 seed.

Now, maybe we have more potential than our record shows, but at most, I’d say we’re a 45-48 win team with this roster.

@kevin s.

:( Good point, I’d blocked that part of the “rationale” for the trade out of my mind. It’s kinda the ultimate example of why you don’t willingly trade the best player from a championship level core, even if there is a team or teams who at full strength you would have a less than 50/50 shot of beating in the playoffs. Because just like how we suffered an ill-timed injury last year, there’s always a chance those injuries hit someone else the following season.

What Joel said. 2008-2009 Pistons = shoulda/coulda/woulda. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS BEAT THE BULLS!!!!! ARGH.

Thank you, Matt. This post is vintage DBB!

Cavs in five.

“What have we got to lose? Our dignity?”

That was lost a long time ago, stuffed away into the pocket of a blue checked suit which was taken to a dry cleaner in Rochester. The guy working the counter at the dry cleaner found our dignity and sold it on Ebay. When Curry came back to complain about the missing dignity, the clerk pointed to the sign on the wall: We are not responsible for horrid coaching.

A wild animal is the most dangerous when backed into a corner with nowhere to go

say what you will about the Pistons but they have a chance to beat Cleveland if they play like they have nothing to loose and leave it all in the court.

Too bad the cleaners didn’t lose some of MCIAFI’s ugly suits while they were losing things.

Pistons in 4.

Detroit in 3

pistons in 8

Cavs in five.

KG in bed.

How about this?

I’m willing to wager that Detroit will win quarters but lose games.

Detroit in 6.

write it down… front page, back page, tell your momma, tell your papa, send a telegram to your family out of town

Detroit in 6

free at last, free at last, FREEEEEEEEE AT LASTTTTTTTTTT

Kevin S. – What you wrote -

That was how I felt when the trade went down, and that’s how I still feel, now … your words equate mine, but with a lot of frustration behind them, from me. Back then … in what I saw then … the AI trade was a really bad move from a decent GM.

Hold the rest of these words at a distance … I may not entirely believe them myself … this is the frustration, speaking.

As much as I was irritated with the coming up short, in wake of Chauncey’s ’everything’s cool, we’ll win, don’t worry’ routine ……. when I saw that Joe traded the team leader for an ill-fitting 2 devoid of any leadership qualities … it just really burned me up.

We weren’t gonna beat Boston/Cleveland? Does that justify doing what happened? Was the opportunity cost too great, in this case, in terms of ‘shaking things up’ … ?

I can give Joe Dumars the benefit of the doubt … it appears as if he had the same thought when he did the deal for Rasheed back in the ‘03-04 season … plus he managed to do it for role players. I can’t get 100 percent sour on Joe Dumars, ever, for this particular trade. It was our Pau Gasol/Kevin Garnett steal of a deal.

So, in an alternate universe, if ‘Sheed didn’t work, even to AI-proportions (malignant personality cancer, complete ill-fitting skill set, unwilling to adapt at all, et cetera ad nauseum), if I’m not mistaken, then they still had cap room to grow …. maybe Joe signs Okur, and the core of Ben, Chauncey, Rip, and Tay are there.

When they did that ‘Sheed deal, I saw the similar gamble …. but there was no chammpionship-contending expectation among the fan base, maybe … or, at least, I knew ’Sheed ran awful-raw on the nerves of Portland fans, who hated him immensely, more so than how our fan base reacts to AI, now … but back then, I saw the guy wasn’t a leader but a great player, and Joe’s deal didn’t require ‘Sheed to be ’the man,’ here. I saw the potential that ‘Sheed could work, even though I was not all that pleased, at first, with Joe’s move. Unlike seeing no potential with AI on Detroit, I just kept quiet among friends and acquaintances about it, pushing a ‘wait and see’ opinion.

This team, however, was stopping just short of the Finals, every year, and there was every indication that Detroit could keep doing this, or better, even with the regular 3rd-best plateau the Pistons had achieved. I felt a little pride in Joe’s GM work … his players had improved considerably from when they arrived. Maybe they reached a plateau, in terms of guys like Tayshaun and Rip, but I felt like Dumars was closer to a couple more rings merely from getting another lucky break on a role player or two, similar to the Spurs … Spurs got lucky when they lifted Michael Finley off Dallas in that one-time exception as part of that last CBA. In addition to Detroit’s luck with Dice, I was hoping they found a Corliss option to bring offense behind Tayshaun … that never happened until recently (I consider Walter Herrmann what I was hoping for back around 2006), nor did the depth behind Chauncey and Rip, post-Mike-James-&-Lindsey-Hunter.

Then again, if I’m giving Joe Dumars the benefit here … then Joe really screwed up his scouting on AI when he suggested that this team would go in a new, somewhat different but still championship-competitive/upward direction. I don’t know what made Joe like AI beyond his cap relief and scoring ability, but he was never the Piston type, and Joe should have known that.

I almost believe Joe tried to defend against a drop in ticket sales by selling his fan base on the idea that he believed AI would help … I almost think he played dumb just to avoid a total plummet in future revenue … what I mean by that is, if you are just dealing to cut the budget, player and fan morale plummet, and your win total and income will likely follow, respectively. Maybe it doesn’t happen this year, but if they see you made a move to save money ahead of staying competitive, the base will not likely respond well.

I also believe Joe really underestimated just how much of a leader Chauncey was, on this club. When it was Ben and Chauncey, Ben was the work ethic/emotion part of the leadership …. Chauncey was the composure/focus/plan/direction guy.

I don’t want to compound more lament here in detail, with regard to Michael Curry, but I think on that move … obviously Flip wasn’t getting it done, and he wasn’t a good coach when it came time to make adjustments, especially in the playoffs. However, I don’t think Joe Dumars envisioned a total green fruit with Curry, a guy who basically stumbled through every part of the coaching gig, basically hitting every wrong note one could hit, at some point or another. Curry is for another discussion … this is more about opportunity cost, and the current ‘failure’ of Joe Dumars.

We saw that Joe avoided cap hell with Ben Wallace … he removed the ‘heart’ of this team and still had some redundant and potent passion/emotion with Rip and ’Sheed … but apparently, on the ’08-09 team, the mastermind guy is missing … also … apparently, Joe overestimated just how ready Stuckey was to be a starter, let alone a leader.

This is no knock on Stuckey … he’s a slightly-below-average starter at the 1, but he can be a great leader, he has all the right raw materials in him to shine … he’s even ahead of Chauncey, in terms of early career progress. I noticed the improvement in his game. My base support for him won’t change unless I see a flat-line in his ability next year, or the next.

I guess what it comes down to, with this opportunity cost, this what we could have had …. stacked up against what we could have possibly had if we stayed in the same direction …. as Joe told us, in terms of still-possibly-championship-contending with AI … “we really think it’s going to help us” … “immediate impact player” …

When Joe traded for AI, in me, immediately, it brought back bad memories of drafting Darko … and hearing him this time, Joe selling through the media about AI helping Detroit …. ugh.

I don’t want to feel this way about Joe Dumars, but I don’t agree with gambling, like this, for cap space, considering the atmosphere provided with the NBA’s CBA. It’s more enticing for a big-time player to stay with his current team for the extra contract year. In order to improve, as a GM, you’re likely going to have to trade.

What do we have left to give on this team for a big name … in terms of value in exchange for the big player and his incoming deal? Is anyone going to want a Rip or Tay for a guy like Boozer in a sign-and-trade? We might have to hope for another ‘Sheed/KG/Pau move, and before you tell me "well look at how the NBA is struggling among franchise revenue … surely we’ll get a great deal (blind hope) from someone looking to dump cap … someday, our King (LeBron James) will come …"

I’d prefer, based on the Pistons previous near-top-of-the-mountain position … in a league that punishes losers with a tough climb through the CBA …. I’d prefer, rather, that Joe Dumars had kept cards like Chauncey in his deck. I’d prefer that he wait for a deal for a big man, instead of swapping guards. I’d prefer that he roll the same dice, as he had done previously, after he got pissed in the summer of 2007 … back then, he had the same tune of ‘shaking things up’ during that summer and did next to nothing …

I’d prefer that we have even a diminished alternate ‘08-09 finish, with Chaucney … maybe it would havee been 2nd or 3rd or possibly a 4th seed in the ’09 playoffs … with a 4th seed, losing to a Cleveland in the semi-finals … I’d prefer all that opportunity cost … to this.

As for the future, maybe Joe gets fortune on his side, again. Maybe the Pistons do nab that next-gen solid big man to stabilize the 4-5 flux … fortune, let us not be the fool. Fortune’s been there, in the past … it’s been there a lot.

Time will tell …

At this point, however, given how things played out from Joe Dumars, cumulative, starting with the AI deal … I just have a hard time trusting he’ll pull the Pistons back into routine championship contending. I’m going to resent a pure cap move of this proportion in the rear-view, should the gamble not work. I already don’t trust Joe Dumars … as much as I used to do.

And …

If the Pistons shock the Cavs and shame the NBA with a championship earned by a team with a losing record …. disregard this, I suck cocks.

Well, all except for the fact that fortune came really early in this case, since 99.9 percent of the time, the Pistons should get burned, pretty crispy, in this 8th seed.

Great post, Sauce.

One of the things you didn’t mention (unless I missed it) was the decision to extend Rip. Rip has done really well this season despite difficult circumstances, but he is only going to go downhill from here. Now, Rip probably has the sort of game that ages well, as does Chauncey. What if, though, this year Chauncey wasn’t traded, and Rip wasn’t extended? Stuckey gets to be the third guard, so he can more comfortably get through his growing pains. Stuckey would play well alongside either Chauncey or Rip. This means Bynum doesn’t emerge, probably.

Next season, if Rip wouldn’t have been re-signed, then Stuckey starts with Chauncey. Stuckey could play the two fairly well. Billups is one of the league’s best point guards. It seems like he would be the sort of player that could attract free agents.

Oh, and turn my cynicism up to 11, the refs surely won’t let the Pistons win this series. They’ll need to flat-out DOMINATE the Cavs for the refs to not step in, and we don’t have the firepower to dominate them. If we can keep the games close, the officiating will more than likely be against us.

You know, we probably could have done the deal as Chauncey and Dyess (who would still be bought out) to NY for Marbury and a first round pick if we really wanted to do a cap clearing deal…

Birdman, I didn’t mention Rip … I felt guilty piling on Curry into that examination, but I should have briefly covered it … it was already long as hell.

I see Rip being the exact same over the next 2 seasons. I can live with his game. The extension, however, seems like a result of the decision to make Stuckey a 1. A 2 without solid perimeter range is dicey, but Stuckey is the definition of a 1/2 combo. He shoulda stayed as a 30 minute super-sub, even if Bynum only got burn in the case of alternate-reality Chauncey foul trouble …

Of which …

I remember Chauncey having foul trouble in the previous 2-3 playoff runs. We threw in Lindsey Hunter. I’ll take Bynum in the spot Lindsey occupied.

Sauce: Great post. I too, give Joe D. the benefit of the doubt. I truly think he thought AI could change, or at least come to a team with some veterans (Dyess & Sheed) who have given up some of their game to blend in better and try to blend in better.

On the other hand, I think Joe D. looked around and said what gives me the most and widest latitude to make changes (i.e., opportunity)for the future and CB to Denver was it. Take Rip & Tay + picks and that might land you a top FA thru sign-n-trade, but I very sincerely doubt it does on a straight up trade. However, I think the economics caught most everyone by surprise and I think Joe D. saw a bit ahead here. With the economy souring and the cap coming down, a bunch of teams that had planned on being under by just doing nothing are now forced to do something. Once that pandora’s box is open, things once thought impossible now become open.

I really think Joe D. maybe takes a player or two not of top FA talent and packages them with another current piston or picks and then gets a top FA. Given the cap space we will have, we can afford to be a bit choosey. Very, very few teams this summer or next are going to be willing to trade straight up, even if the guy has an expiring contract. Teams that were trying to get under the cap for the 2010 FA class, now it’s more about economics because of the CBA rules regarding your own FA.

Unless you’re picking 1 or 2 this year (Blake & Rubio) I really think some teams with a 3-14 pick will be looking to trade because of the talent drop-off and economics. This doesn’t help us, unless we want to facilitate.

I read where we might seek both Chandler and then B. Gordon. It doesn’t help us with the 3 backup, but it’s a start. And I really believe if given some burn, Fabio can be that guy. My nightmare is by some chance in hell we beat Cleveland and then we’re stuck with Curry for another year. If we are making changes this summer and possibly incorporating a 40% new lineup, I think this screams for a experienced and respected coach. I think the guys look at Curry and don’t respect him. Maybe it’s just me, but a good number of times this season coming onto the floor following a timeout, guys had that “Are you shitting me?” look on their faces.

As for Stuck’s growth, there is only so much you can learn talking and watching. This may be a bad analogy, but I look at Cassell in NE. He’s been watching Brady for 6 years and his play from the beginning was wretched but got better and improved with each game. I don’t think the CB trade can be evaluated until next year or the following year. As for AI: pffft.

I agree completely, Sauce.

When I first heard about the trade, I had three immediate reactions.
1) Disbelief. Literally. I thought it was a joke of the internet rumormungerors.
2) Shocked and disappointed to lose Chauncey, because I never suspected that he was our problem. “Ctrl+Z, Edit—>Undo!!!!!111111”
3) For Allen Iverson? Really? How in the hell does he fit with anything that has ever been Piston basketball (at least in my lifetime)?

Once I got past the raw emotion of it, I began to analyze it more logically.

I still didn’t get it. How does AI fit in any meaningful way?

Once I finally accepted that CB was gone and AI was here, I began advocating that we give him the benefit of the doubt, in spite of our apprehensions, and suspend judgment on this team until the All Star break.

Obviously, that break came and went, and we were still mediocre, with very few indications of playoff viability.

Like you, the media hype disgusted me, from Joe D’s “impact player” jargon to the “Fiverson” ticket packages. God, I hope we suffer amnesia and forget all that BS.

But I suppose what rubs me wrong in hindsight is that we were right about AI, and Joe D was wrong.

I agree with you. Joe Dumars made three critical mistakes in terms of player evaluation in this trade.

1) He undervalued CB.
2) He overvalued AI.
3) He overestimated Stuckey.

CB: Not only is CB a terrific leader and stabilizing influence, he really is an elite PG as a player. He is incredibly efficient on offense, and he is a rock solid defender.

In short, tangibly and intangibly, CB was worth every penny of his contract (even if pro athletes are overpaid across the board!).

AI: I know a lot of people are here are skeptical of Wages of Wins metrics, but I do value them as one piece of a statistical puzzle, and I think they get AI right.

GM’s overvalue scoring, and not just scoring in general but scoring totals and averages. As we all know all too well now, AI is not an efficient offensive player, in spite of his high scoring totals; I don’t need to beat a dead horse.

But he’s also inefficient on defense. At the 2 spot, he’s an automatic liability on defense, because he’s incapable of defending most SG’s in the league. Plus, he gambles too often and loses sight of the team’s larger defensive schemes.

Stuckey: Stuckey has potential, and I’m still convinced he has CB-type potential, and Sauce is right — he improved from last season to this season. I think he has the ability, which he proved in spurts, to average high numbers of points and assists, and I think he will grow into a leadership role. He’s also got some great athleticism, which is something we desperately needed in the backcourt.

Unfortunately, potential doesn’t translate into team wins.

All this leads me to the conclusion that our biggest problem was not that CB is a better all-around player than AI, although that is certainly true.

In my opinion, our biggest problem this season was that CB is drastically better than Stuckey, not just in terms of statistical totals, but in terms of leadership quality and overall efficiency.

Obviously, hindsight is 20-20, but even without the benefit of hindsight, it’s hard to imagine what Joe D envisioned when he made this trade — unless he plans on a much bigger re-tolling this summer (which I continue to think is entirely possible) of which the AI trade is only the first piece.

Having criticized Joe D thusly, it’s not all his fault. The roster he put together could and should have won 45-50 games. There was enough talent there.

But unfortunately, we have the ‘coach’ that Joe D hired — MCIAFI.

From my perspective, the trade was made for three reasons.

1) To develop Stuckey as a starting PG.
2) To give us cap space for the next two summers.
3) To give us a potent scoring option who creates his own shots.

And I would rank them in that order.

Unfortunately, someone forgot to give MCIAFI that memo, and he ranked #3 as #1.

From day one, I said the only rotation that made sense was AI in the super-sub role combined with our second unit that plays good D, shoots jumpshots well, and can run with him in transition (Dice, AA, Hermann, Max/Amir).

Doing so would have maximized the strengths that the roster actually had for both the present and future.

Present: gives us a potent bench in terms of scoring and tempo. Gives us a cohesive starting unit that continues to play Piston basketball even with some new pieces.

Future: don’t have to restructure Piston basketball for one player. Builds chemistry among the guys who will be hear for the next 2-3 seasons. Develops Stuckey’s abilities as a player and future leader.

But this clarity was lacking from our coaching staff since the trade was made, which is proven by our ever-changing starting line-up and rotation.

Our coaches never figured out if this trade was for the present or future — or maybe their uncertainty was coming from even higher up than that. But in either case, the season was essentially lost before we got things anywhere close to right — bringing AI off the bench was the only move that made sense, and had we done it sooner, maybe he could have helped us this season … maybe.

I agree, Sauce, Joe D screwed this one up big time. We essentially gave CB away for free, and our record is indicative of that. And that mistake is exacerbated by the possibility that MCIAFI might have been the right man for the roster Joe D had assembled (explanation below). Hermann gave us stability at the backup 3. Stuckey gave us stability at backup combo guard. And Kwame gave us another young, big body inside.

And I think there was a general sense of optimism among fans before the season started, which only amplifies the frustration with how things have turned out.

I had the privilege of attending game 2 of this season, which was Chauncey’s last in the Piston white … I rarely get to attend, and I said to my brother as we were leaving the Palace, “Man, Curry has this team looking sharp. Maybe this was the only change we needed …”

Ironically, maybe I was right. Maybe MCIAFI was the perfect man for the roster we had … but he sure as heck wasn’t the right guy to coach AI (and it’s no0t as if he’s alone there). And time has shown that my initial reactions about AI — no matter how much I hoped they were wrong — were spot on.

So to conclude:

If this season really was about this season, then Joe D botched it, either by thinking AI could lead this team or by not communicating his vision to the coaching staff.

If this season is what this trade was primarily about, then we were right, and he was wrong.

That said, I still think that in spite of this debacle, this trade was a sign of a major overhaul to come. I’m not certain of this or even predicting it, but I won’t be shocked for a second if next season’s Pistons look radically different from this season’s. I suspect that the notion “there are no sacred cows” has never been more true than it will be this summer.

I just have to wonder if that was avoidable had this trade not been made in the first place.

Shinons, I think Utah owns NY pick this year thru the Curry trade and then some other trade. I don’t think NY has a first round pick this year or next, unless it’s interchangeable.

I’m not sure where CB to NY for cap clearing isn’t the same as the Denver trade.

brgulker: concur, but two points: Don’t think CB trade can be properly evaluated for at least another year but probably 2. I think no matter how much leadership skills Stuck has, it was always going to be difficult for him to do that this year given the shock of the trade and how it thrust Stuck into CB’s position. Particularly a 2nd year guy on a veteran team.

People ripped the shit outta Joe D. for signing Kwame to 4M/yr for 2 years. Fan base optimism for this signing, wasn’t to a large extent.

But let’s flip the tables and say we stayed pat. However, we lose in the playoffs and don’t make it to the finals. What would we now do? Little cap space with Sheed leaving, a team that has “under-achieved” for several years and really no prospect of gaining a top FA either outright or thru sign-n-trade without gutting our core.

The future may not be as bright for some folks, but we got a boatload of possibilities. We’ll be mentioned in every trade discussion this summer just because of the cap space. And the first thing to making a trade is being in the discussion. Our window may have closed this year and depending on acquisitions even next year. But the Suns window is closed, they really have to take back less if they wan’t to get below the tax line and their prospects aren’t quite as good.

brgulker: concur, but two points: Don’t think CB trade can be properly evaluated for at least another year but probably 2. I think no matter how much leadership skills Stuck has, it was always going to be difficult for him to do that this year given the shock of the trade and how it thrust Stuck into CB’s position. Particularly a 2nd year guy on a veteran team.

I don’t necessarily disagree at all, and you raise some good points.

To consider, however:

Would there have been a market to trade Chauncey next year? I think so…not positive, but I think so. Trading for AI almost seemed like desperation. Plus, one more year of tutelage would have done Stuck a world of good.

You’re right about Stuckey. It was a shock for him, I’m sure, and it’s a tough spot to be in as a soph.

But let’s flip the tables and say we stayed pat. However, we lose in the playoffs and don’t make it to the finals. What would we now do? Little cap space with Sheed leaving, a team that has "under-achieved" for several years and really no prospect of gaining a top FA either outright or thru sign-n-trade without gutting our core

Good point, but I wonder if given the downturn in the economy, teams scrambling to get under luxury tax line, etc., if we might have been able to get some really good value for some of our guys, and not just a fat, expiring contract.

Hindsight’s 20-20.

The future may not be as bright for some folks, but we got a boatload of possibilities. We’ll be mentioned in every trade discussion this summer just because of the cap space. And the first thing to making a trade is being in the discussion. Our window may have closed this year and depending on acquisitions even next year. But the Suns window is closed, they really have to take back less if they wan’t to get below the tax line and their prospects aren’t quite as good.

Two really good points here. We will be the talk of the proverbial town with all the money we could have. Plus, we’ve created possibilities for the future, even if they are only possibilities at this point. The Suns are burning out, to be sure, and their options are very limited.

brgulker: Thanks, we’re on the same page here. As to trading CB this coming season, and with Dyess gone (hopefully not) getting that “player” or cap relief I don’t think occurs. Only Dyess’ contract would have come off with CB being signed for several more years and I think certainly nothing would have been available for 20M cap space.

This has been one of the best threads on DBB in a long time; lots of great posts with which I agree.

I’ll only add one thing: bad luck. Isiah once said to win a championship, you have to be both good AND lucky. Detroit wasn’t as good this year, but also pretty much everything else (with the exception of Dyess coming back) went about as badly as it could have.

I didn’t like the AI trade and didn’t think he would fit in, but I thought there was SOME potential: adding a legit “superstar” scorer who could take over at the end of games and get calls. That didn’t happen and what did happen was just horrible. AI’s presence gives Curry the obviously bad idea of playing small ball, then forces Rip to the bench. Meanwhile, AI has the worst year of his career (I haven’t checked the states, but that’s gotta be right). Then AI gets hurt, is a major distraction, and with a few weeks left in the season, suddenly isn’t going to be part of the team anymore. Yay, in the sense that he’s become more trouble than he’s worth, but boo in the sense that we have to reorganize rotations again, and now we’re just last year’s Pistons minus Chauncey plus Will Bynum. I love you, Will, but. . . .

The Amir Johnson Starting experiment didn’t work. We can argue about why, but it didn’t.

Michael Curry really IAFI. Yes, the Pistons had some unusual problems that had no obvious right answer, especially for a first-year coach. But Curry kept coming up with obviously wrong answers, including but not limited to rotations. Losing all these 4th quarters (somebody posted a nice stat on that in the other thread) and thus games — up to and including the Bulls game the other day — is, I say, at least in significant part on Curry.

Injuries. Not just AI, but Rip and ’Sheed missed a number of games. Remember, we win a couple of those, we get the #7 or even #6 seed.

Plus, I swear, there have been a number of games where balls just rattled out for us and in for the opponent down the stretch, a rebound took a weird bounce away from our guy, a key call or two didn’t go our way. Not our year.

So we’ve been unlucky. But we also haven’t been that good. To be honest, I think Detroit would lose to even a KG-less Celtics team.

If Dumars brings in a top-flight FA or makes a good trade, ideally for a big, maybe all will be forgiven. Even if not, I’ll be here next year.

Can I please be the first to say that WE ARE FUCKED. I mean you can roast it and burn it because there’s a 99.9% that Detroit will be eliminated. I’ll eat my shoes if the Pistons make it pass first round. Every big man on the Pistons team better getting fouling so much that there should be two or three guys ejected. Lebron better not be doing dunks like two years ago. Sheed better go bananas otherwise we are screwed!

I think we can all be in agreement that the one and only “pro” in this situation/season that has been so full of “cons” is that we really, truly are the clear cut #1 player in the free agent/trade market this off-season. I don’t know the exact numbers, but we’re looking at what, $20+ million to play around with?

-We need to resign Dyess for sure. Whatever it takes.
—If Sheed will come cheaply, then I’m okay with that too- if not, fuck it. I’m over his shit, but he is an undeniable post defender and I think a player/coach role off the bench would suit him perfectly.
—We need to pay MFWB. Yes, he was horrendous in that Bulls game, but overall the guy has been a revelation. His price is only going to go up the longer we wait.
—We need to trade Amir. There should be no argument here about that. He will never play for this team, no matter how unwarranted you feel his treatment has been. My suggestion has always been to package him with our #15 pick + a combination of second round/future picks to either move up in the draft (this is only worth it if we can get in the top 3) or to trade for a need (quality C/PF, or a good SF who can create his own shot [Gay/Wallace/Butler/etc.]).

These are the moves that are either implied (Dyess and MFWB) or easily inferred given our current roster. The “BIG” move we can only speculate about. Our options, given our financial situation vs. other teams’ financial situations, should be nearly unlimited. We can straight up pay a FA. We can do sign-and-trades. We can take on extra salary to sweeten deals. We basically have enough money to “splurge” and really get exactly who we (Joe D) want.

What’s our “BIG” move?

And for the record I still think that if we can get Ben Gordon at ~$7 mil/year, we need to do that deal.

puts on flame-retardant long-johns

@MarkButter

I think the Pistons would have a fair bit of cap relief this summer, if they chose not to exercise Rip’s option. I’m not sure though. Obviously Joe chose to give Rip a new contract instead, though that might not have happened if Billups was not traded.

Before I came on today, I was seriously thinking our season was going to be over on April 26th. But after watching the first vid (which was truely epic), I feel that we’re going to end Cavs season on the 26th.

Pistons in 4.

Also, the symbolism in the Rocky clip (whether intended or unintended) goes perfectly with the Detroit and Cleveland series.

Birdman: I think the 3 yr extension kicks in 2010-11 season. His current contract did not expire this year. I believe.

Joel: I think you summarize pretty much what I think we should do. I don’t think trading Amir + our 15th plus 2nd’s are going to allow us to move into the top 3.

BG @ 7M/yr? In a heartbeat. But is he going to be cool with coming off the bench? Sheed: very, very reasonable salary. Though I think he’s on his way to SA.

Our “BIG” move: I don’t think anyone will know for sure until at least the ping-pong balls have happened. If I’m sitting at 14, I’m holding rosary beads nite-n-day and praying for B. Griffin. But suppose Pheonix ends up with the #2. Draft Rubio and trade Nash while he has value and 2010 his contract is up. then I think we’ll see dominoes start to fall.

Given our space and economics, we can afford to wait and let other teams bid against one another for our space.

rip had a player option for next seaason

Thanks Craig.

Meanwhile, AI has the worst year of his career (I haven’t checked the states, but that’s gotta be right).

That’s sort of debatable, depending on how you interpret stats.

In terms of scoring totals and average, he’s down for sure.

But, in terms of field goal percentage/points per shot attempt, it’s not drastically different.

So, in terms of aggregate totals and averages, yeah it was bad.

But, in terms of efficiency, AI’s season was just what you would expect, given fewer minutes and fewer shot attempts.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but last analysis I read predicted that if the cap stays where it is, we would only have around $14-$15 mil in cap space for next season.

If it decreases, which it might, we’d have even less.

I only mention that because I keep seeing $20 million thrown around on here, and from what I’ve read, that’s overestimating the amount of flexibility we have.

brgulker: I think that’s about right, so I can’t correct you. Has something with the cap, which you can’t exceed unless you are resigning your own FA and the luxury cap. I thought we had about 20M also. Take into consideration Sheed at 13 and AI at 21 equals 34, but part of sheed’s was over the cap but under luxury when we resigned him after 2004. And I think the projections include the reduction in luxury cap for this coming season. I think.

Reading this thread has reminded me of an old saying I’m sure everyone has heard:

“Don’t trade one bird in your hand for two in the bush”.

This is EXACTLY what Dumars tried to do this year.

Our one bird: Chauncey Billups. We knew what we had, strengths and weaknesses. And I have to believe we were happy with it. Even Joe must have been happy with it or he would not have given him that last new contract.

Our two in the bush: Rodney Stuckey and Allen Iverson.

Joe bet that what the team could get out of Stuckey this year, combined with what the team could get out of Iverson this year would be equal to or greater than what we could get out of Billups. He was so, so, wrong. Primarily because of Iverson. I don’t think Joe expected much more out of Stuckey than we did get this year. But if you factor in Iverson as a net negative this year rather than a net positive, they basically cancel each other out. So instead of basically equaling Billup’s value, we kinda traded him away for nothing but cap space.

Cap space may becomes the second “bird in the bush” starting next year. It’s impossible to say what Joe will do with it, or if the economy will allow him to make as big an impact on the team as he had originally planned. I’ll reserve judgment on this part of the deal until later this year, but I will say this. I think Piston’s fans had visions of LeBron James (best case) or Chris Bosh (worst case) dancing in their heads when they thought about the cap space the Pistons will have this coming year. I don’t think that either is very realistic at this point, and that should be disappointing for a team that gave up a player in the top 5 at his position for that space.

I also don’t like the idea that this team needed a drastic shake up. We were a top 5 team in the league just last year (probably top 4, arguably top 3). That doesn’t typically mean you are a team that needs a drastic change. It usually means a little tweak. A mid-level exception signing. Trading a draft pick and bench player for a slightly better bench player.

Blowing up a team as successful as the Pistons have been would almost certainly lead to a worse team rather than a better team; that’s just the odds. It’s HARD to put a team together as good as the Pistons have been the last 6 years, but it’s not all that hard to mess a good team up trying to make it even better.

I guess it all comes down to what you value about your team. Do you value wins during the season and having a good team? Having a team you can be proud of because, like dear departed LB would say, they “play the right way”? I think DP fans place a high, maybe higher than most, value on this kind of team. I know I do.

Or, do you only value championships. I understand the “raising the bar” mentality for a team who goes to the ECF EVERY SINGLE YEAR. But aren’t you devaluing the simple idea of having a good (great) team that you can be proud of regardless of the results at the end of the year when you say “Championship or bust”?

For me, watching Detroit Pistons basketball is fun to watch when the team is winning. I gotta be honest; I checked out for a few years of the teal era. I would watch some games, but I wasn’t that invested in the team because of it’s obvious deficiencies. But since Joe D took over the team and we made our first real run in 2002-2003, I’ve been glued to the TV every time a Piston’s game is on. We didn’t always win, but we always had a chance and I was always proud of the team and of the fact that we did the best that we could… from the GM down to the last bench player.

Now… I’m not so sure. I’m certainly not proud of the team as a whole, or the coach, or the GM.

So what’s more important? Being proud, expecting a lot of wins, and knowing you may come up a bit short but still have a chance to win it all? Or, betting on two birds in the bush and letting go of the one in your hand?

Big Z: Championships. Championships. Championships. That’s how things are measured. Who cares about regular season records other than seeding. And I’d rather win an ugly chip than look good losing one. Just my .02 worth.

@Big Z – So let’s say, hypothetically, that we wore green uniforms. That we’ve got a solid young point guard, a potential star at power forward, an aging star at small forward, a douchey yet effective in his role center, an upcoming fifth pick in the draft in which we can keep building around that core, and a bunch of filler. So would it be a mistake to trade away a bunch of talented youth for some injury prone veterans who might be a year or two away from being irrelevant in order to make a run at the title?

So we lost Chauncey. We’ll live. At least Dumars hedged his bet. Now we will see if he can use the asset of cap space into someone who will get us back to a 50-win team and a title contender.

i don’t think joe d was making up ecf rings for the team the last 6 years…. He took a chance. I think I’d be more upset if we ran the same team and lost in the semi’s this year.

Just read where Ainge suffered a heart attack this morning around 5 a.m. Nothing to joke about, but had he heard the KG news yet? JOKING

I think Joe took a look around and saw cleaveland , Orlando , Boston at least in the short term , Miami , Atlanta and even Chicago are better , or were going to be better , then the Pistons very shortly , in fact I think the east is only a few trades and and a year or two away from being superior to the west.His team was getting older and he took the steps needed to infuse this team with some quality up and comming young guys . The biggest mistake i think he made waqs waiting to long to break up the core, trading the wrong guy , outa neccesity because of waiting to long that he had no choice . But some good has come out of this , we found Bynum , Kwame is a better then average backup , Stucky’s developement for better or worse was moved up , we have alot of cap space this summer and , most importantly when we jettison some more of the core this summer we should be a hungry younger team next year.

This the NBA and anything can happen…chances might be slim, but a chance is a chance…what makes this Cavs team different then before is a hunger coupled with swagger resulting from increased trust due to invigorated chemistry with the addition of MO and emergence of D West.

what do we have to do to make it a series, Stucky needs to be aggressive, the second unit cannot afford to lose a step especially our superstar Will the “thrill” and the baby eatin machine…zone defense?…the three headed penetration monster…yea thats what she said

my conviction is that dumars chose a lackey in curry. someone who had no reputation or record. someone who would be completely loyal and obedient.
 now can repeatedly blowing leads and losing close games be blamed on curry? my guess is yes.
  i saw effort particularly in the second half of the season.. everybody played hard. a.i. played hard. kwame played hard. rip played hard. bynum played hard. maxiel played hard. stuckey played hard. tay played hard. dyess played real hard. affalo played hard. walter played hard. there were times when even sheed played hard. effort was not the problem.
  chauncey was gone. what about him was most missed? he did know how to close out games.
   and flip was replaced by curry.
 and the fourth quarter became a nightmare.

i just watched the nba .com preseries spot and find myself thinking…this is a strange series. a cavs victory is already fact. they are the goliath. but the pistons are not a new and young team. they have pride and guile. they have nothing to lose. the cavs are seriously cocky. maybe for good reason. but they have a shitload to lose. the pressure is on them. now that is a silver lining.

I agree with andyfrombrooklyn re effort and Curry.

The other “pro” from this season of “cons” was Bynum. No, he’s not as good as Chauncey, and he picked a really bad game to show his green-ness the othernight against the Bulls. But he’s way better than I (or, I’m guessing) most other people thought.

The other “pro” was Dyess’s work ethic and attitude, but that just brings up the “con” side that he came back to a Pistons team that would finish under .500 (!) and almost certainly get killed in the first round.

@TJ:
But he’s way better than I (or, I’m guessing) most other people thought.

Some here have been big on Bynum since Summer League, and some of those weren’t very surprised at his explosion. What surprises me is those who still think he’s a fluke, and would prefer Lindsey Hunter or Mike James to MFWB.

One other “pro” I would say has been Rip Hamilton. He has done EVERYTHING the team has asked him this season. He was handed an extension before he knew his counterpart was traded. He played second fiddle to Iverson. He played out of position. He came off the bench. The whole while, he’s been rock solid and without his continued focus, we wouldn’t even be in the playoffs right now. Just imagine how many games we would have lost if Rip acted like AI. We would likely be talking about the lottery right now…

Hamilton was a huge “pro” to this season. Fortunately, he’s three years younger than Ray Allen, and can continue to produce for a few more years before we really have to worry about the 2 spot.

About winning this year with last year’s team, a healthy Orlando (with improved play at SG), a healthy Boston, and definitely Cleveland all would have both been better than a pat Detroit. Then you have to beat another team out West that would likely be better. So is winning three series in a row as the underdog with a veteran team that has shown signs of complacency realistic? Blowing up the team was the right thing to do. Iverson and his cap space is a form of controlled demolition

Co-sign Mike Payne. I’m really looking forward to the draft and the summer league when it’s just us hardcore Pistons junkies hanging out around these parts. I’ll be happy when the noise is gone.

You know you have a problem when you’re scouring the internets for an online feed of a completely meaningless Vegas Summer League game.

OK, Will Bynum is better than I, and probably most people — but not Mike Payne — thought. Seriously, this was the year I thought several Pistons would be better than they were: Amir, Maxiell (good when he’s good, but pretty inconsistent), and, after the first month or two of the season, even Stuckey. So having Bynum come out of nowhere (for me) and play really well was a treat. Especially after the AI experiment failed.

I also agree that Rip was a plus. He improved his game. Too bad we had him play SF for a chunk of the season, and then come off the bench for a spell. Which gets me back to MCIAFI. . . .

Also, luck is a huge part of success. Are we even in this situation if Billups doesn’t get his leg swept by Jameer Nelson (fuck that guy) in the second round? I don’t know. I understand why the Billups trade was made. I’m really not happy with the results, but thems the breaks. It’s been 5 years since the title. Dumars has a history that shows he deserves the benefit of the doubt. What’s shaken my confidence in him is how badly he misfired with Curry. Any way you slice it, that’s been a disaster. I especially hate it when late in the game we go away from what’s been working (or not) to go with an iso play for Rip Hamilton. I love Rip, but are you kidding me? Didn’t Curry play with Rip? Was he paying attention the last couple of years? 9 times out of 10 the “Iso Rip at the top of the key” play ends in an offensive foul or a horrible turnover. I’d rather be punched in the balls than watch Curry coach this team for another game.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: when you decide to make Stuckey your franchise player (and I think that’s the intention), you better have a coach that knows how to develop a point guard. It’s clear we do not. That is my biggest worry moving forward.

@ToledoJoe:
OK, Will Bynum is better than I, and probably most people — but not Mike Payne — thought.

If I thought it was just me, I would have stroked my own joke, but it wasn’t. Other Matt mentioned the die hard folk that hang out on DBB every second of the summer, searching for news, scouring for every Summer League stream. There was a healthy contingent here who watched the Summer League and preseason and knew precisely what Bynum was capable of if given time.

But like you said, I too thought others would blossom this year. I’m not ready to give up on Amir or Maxiell or Herrmann, I think that had a lot to do with coaching and consistency. Bynum, however, has been a #1 hard ass since the season started, through to spare minutes, to breaking Garnett’s knees, to blowing up in March. Its like he told the world back in June, “I’ll be going to the rack now, try and keep up” and now the league and the media are doing their best.

OK, OK, I missed the boat on Bynum! I’m not too proud to say it!

If Joe D gets Bosh, can we all hug?

I was really into the summer league and totally didn’t notice Bynum because I was too busy being wowed by Afflalo! He had a MONSTER summer and played some pretty flawless games. I was really expecting big things from him but he’s always the odd man out with no real defined role. He can definitely play in the league (as evidenced by his decent showings when Rip was hurt) but we need to get him some consistent burn. Bynum, Afflalo, and Stuckey are a nice young core. If Max could be consistent and get a defensive board every now and then I’d probably put him in that group too. But for now I’ll just be happy with a few babies eaten every now and then.

Also: fire Curry pls k thnx bye.

Pistons in 3. Yep, three. Like it’s 1989.

Pistons in 3. Yep, three. Like it’s 1989.

what the fuck is this? When did DBB turn in to a pity party?

I’ve seen more rambling paragraphs talking like the season is over, rehashing the same crap we’ve all talked about since Chauncey Billups was traded. I’ve read the ramblings of “ok so we gotta do whatever it takes to re-sign McDyesa and MFWB”…

Quit talking like the season is over until the season is over. This is embarrassing

I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again , if Dumars is gonna keep Curry around surround him with quality assistants , preferbaly a defense wiz and a guy who can teach pg’s wouldn’t hurt to hire Sheed as an asistant to helpteach the bigs , he knows how to post up as well as anybody , when he wants to, he should be able to teach it.Any idoit can look good or in Curry’s case adequate , with good assistants.

2 chicks man.

I have a bunch of “big move” I think the Pistons can do…

One example: Amir/Max and a First Round Pick for David West and James Posey.

How it could happen: If Tyson Chandler’s injury problems continue, New Orleans won’t be able to unload him. They will likely be $10million over the Luxury Tax. That’s a serious financial burden.

They’ll be loathe to give up David West who has a great contract so if they do, they’ll want to unload another contract as well. They’d probably be more apt to force Morris Peterson into the deal because he doesn’t play right now. I would rather have Posey but Peterson could probably back up Tay and both have three point range.

West is not a very good rebounder, so he needs a rebounding center next to him. But he’s automatic with that mid-range jumper and can face up and score in the paint. He’s deadly in the pick and roll with Chris Paul and can be equally effective setiing picks off the ball for Rip.

This is just one idea that may not come to pass but I can think of about three or four more other plans that could.

If the Pistons can win one of the first two games, David Stern may consider extending the series and playing up the “Detroit is the new Katrina” angle.

None! No chance at all! Without AI, its gonna be an ugly series.

Garrett said: “I was really into the summer league and totally didn’t notice Bynum because I was too busy being wowed by Afflalo! He had a MONSTER summer and played some pretty flawless games. I was really expecting big things from him but he’s always the odd man out with no real defined role.”

Afflalo did some great things at summer league (he also had at least one horrible game that wrecked his stats, but whatever) and the fact that he’s been so underused this year despite correcting his biggest weakness (outside shooting) is kind of depressing. He shot 20.8% behind the arc last year; he improved to 40.2% this year. Why he’s not getting 3-4 shots a game from three-point land is beyond me.

Also, Toledo Joe said, “This has been one of the best threads on DBB in a long time” … I agree 100%. This community is awesome.

I never here anyone calling Tayshaun out on his inability to step up against Lebron James. If we have a shot at winning this, it will rest on his ability to force Lebron to work on both ends of the floor. Tayshaun has a habit of disappearing in games or just playing SOFT! He has to step up to the challenge. To many games I see him cower against big name players and frankly I have grown sick of it. Am I the only one the see’s this?

This is going to make me sound dumb but I just realized the other day that Will Bynum wasn’t Will Blaylock. How many 25-ish PGs named Will B. who played in Israel and are 6’0" tall can their be in the world?

I’m done with this whole down in the dumps mentality.

Even Matt Watson is picking Cleveland in 4.

next thing you know Sauce is going to pick Cleveland in 4.

what. the. fuck.

boney, maybe you watched the videos at the top after all? …pistons in 7!

other matt,
 I’m really looking forward to the draft and the summer league when it’s just us hardcore Pistons junkies hanging out around these parts. I’ll be happy when the noise is gone.
  this " known idiot" has to go to summer school after the playoffs but i will be back in october to post your favorite blog and disrupt your sense of exclusive fraternity.

@ Other Matt: totally agree regarding “iso for Rip.” Hell, that’s never been Rip’s game. We give it to 1 of 3 guys (Stuck & Tay the others) who has the least handle of the 3 in the closing minutes? I can’t believe the end of the Chi game following a time out and that’s the play MC draws up.

@ Boney: + 1. But I think the DBB community is torn. Should we get past Cleveland, I don’t think there’s no way Joe D. fires Curry. He probably won’t reqardless, but given the odds of winning a chip or losing to Clev and saying buh bye to MC, you gotta admit, its a hard choice. And depressing is the odds in LV that have the Pistons at 80-1. Ugh.

My biggest regret this season has been the non-development of our bench guys, AA, Amir & Max to get consistent burn. Also, 20/20 hindsight, but given the fact that we got into the playoffs by just a few games is also disheartening given these guys didn’t get very much burn. Going in as an 8th seed and the season as a whole would be more palatable if we new what we had. At this point, we still don’t know if those three guys are good enough to be in our long-term rotation plans, same spot we were in last year at this time.

To me, given all that’s happened, that’s been the biggest dumper of the season. The silver lining of course being MFWB. It looks like we got someone who can come off the bench, get to the hole or at least make a play for others and speed up the game if asked. The only thing better would have been to have a veteran with playoff experience in that role for this year. Gee, wonder if we could have made a trade for someone like that. . . ??

Matt W said: “…the fact that [Afflalo]’s been so underused this year despite correcting his biggest weakness (outside shooting) is kind of depressing. He shot 20.8% behind the arc last year; he improved to 40.2% this year. Why he’s not getting 3-4 shots a game from three-point land is beyond me.”

Answer? MCIAFI. sigh

Hamilton was a huge "pro" to this season. Fortunately, he’s three years younger than Ray Allen, and can continue to produce for a few more years before we really have to worry about the 2 spot.

Personally, I think Rip has even longer staying power than that — maybe not at his current role as primary scoring option. But I remember watching Reggie Miller be very productive even when he was far past his prime, and the parallels between the two are pretty obvious in terms of style of play, build, etc.

He shot 20.8% behind the arc last year; he improved to 40.2% this year. Why he’s not getting 3-4 shots a game from three-point land is beyond me.

Our coach is still MCIAFI, right? That might explain it.

I never here anyone calling Tayshaun out on his inability to step up against Lebron James.

I agree, and I can’t help but wonder if Tay is one of the “core” that Joe D is thinking about moving this summer. He has good trade value and a decent contract. If we could package him with Amir for a good big man, would that make any sense?

QD, I’ll take it one further on Curry. Not only did he not give burn to the youngsters, he was still screwing with the rotation as late as the Chicago game, which was the most important of the season. That was the “straw that broke the camels back” moment for me. I was extremely leery of him before that. I no longer hold any hope that he can be a viable NBA coach.

Boney, I disagree it’s there’s a “down in the dumps” mentality. I’m not down. I’m realistic. We’re not that good of a team this year. I think it’s perfectly legitimate to talk about why we’re in this situation. But once this atrocity of a season is over, it’s all about the future and getting this ship righted.

Boney, I disagree it’s there’s a "down in the dumps" mentality. I’m not down. I’m realistic. We’re not that good of a team this year. I think it’s perfectly legitimate to talk about why we’re in this situation. But once this atrocity of a season is over, it’s all about the future and getting this ship righted.

Although I certainly see where Boney is coming from, I tend to agree with above.

I think we’re as good as our record right now, and realistically, the team that earned that record doesn’t have a chance of winning more than 2 games against Cleveland.

I do think this team could have beaten Orlando and even Boston had we been able to win a few games at the end of the season, and at that point, i would have been more optimistic.

That said, there’s no doubt this team had the talent and potential to be a 45-50 win team. But, we would have needed a really good coach to pull all of our extranious pieces together; that didn’t happen, and so we are where we are.

I’m still going to watch, hope, and cheer against Cleveland, and I’ll celebrate as much as anyone if we can work a small miracle and pull the upset.

But I’m not going to be completely heart-broken if/when we lose the series, because my heart was broken (so to speak) long before the Playoffs started — and I don’t think posting about that is “down in the dumps” even though I certainly see your perspective.

@R.O.C.:
Tayshaun has a habit of disappearing in games or just playing SOFT! He has to step up to the challenge.

Tayshaun has saidd himself that he has defensive problems with bigger, power threes like Lebron and Pierce. He said he can handle guards like Kobe easily, but its the guys with size and power that he can’t contain. Remember how Tayshaun got his reputation as a lock-down defender? It was against Tracy McGrady, a finesse player that Tay can easily handle.

We can’t expect Tayshaun to shut down Lebron, there’s just no way. Personally, I’d love to see MCIAFI do what Flip tried out in only one game last season— he put Rip on LeBron with others on help defense. While the sample is only one game, LeBron had one of his worst offensive performances of the season and commented on Rip’s defense as the cause. I’d love to try it. What else can we really do?

(also, I’m not suggesting Rip can handle bigger, more powerful threes, but he has a different defensive style than Tay— in that he’s an absolute PEST)

Are we allowed to do a box-and-one against LeBron? Can we double and triple team him and make Wally and Ben score on us?

Charley Rosen’s blueprint for the Pistons to beat the Cavs:

The most important decision to be made is exactly how to defend LBJ. Double him whenever possible and force his supporting cast to win the game? Or play him straight up, concede his 30-40 (50?) points, and shut down everybody else? Or perhaps mix and match these two options?

The Pistons would best be served by having the long-armed Prince play off of James, even to the extent of going under any high screens. The idea being to let James shoot as many outside jumpers as he wishes, thereby minimizing his opportunities to get his teammates involved. Also, James should be vigorously denied his left hand since he shoots much better going that way. Instead, he should be forced right, and kept right.

Moreover, LBJ must be forced to play defense. Involve him in isolations, run him off multiple screens, and have his man go back-door whenever James turns his head to peek at the ball.

Stuckey should be given multiple opportunities to overpower Williams either in the low- or mid-post areas, or in wing isos.

Because the Cavs are a big man short, Wallace should post-up Ilgauskas and Antonio McDyess should do the same to Anderson Varejao. Foul trouble for either (or both) forces Cleveland to play Darnell Jackson, an earnest but inexperienced rookie.

The Pistons must concentrate on controlling their defensive glass and prevent the Cavs from getting second-chance shots.

Detroit should try to control the tempo by taking the air out of the ball, then counter Cleveland’s aggressive defense with reversal passes and backdoor cuts.

As ever, the key to Detroit’s destiny will be Rasheed Wallace. If his chops are up, if his focus is steady, and if he’s willing to venture into the low post, then the Pistons will be able to complement Hamilton’s perpetual-motion offensive thrusts.

Boney tweeted an interesting defensive strategy yesterday.

Run a trapping 3-2 zone for big chunks of games with the sole purpose of being disruptive (added the second part myself).

That would, of course, require at least one athletic big man to help with rotations and the like.

What does DBB think?

brgulker: I could see that in parts but not big chunks. You mention rotating big man and I would like to see Kwame put some people on their asses if they drive the lane. NO. LAYUPS. PERIOD. I don’t want anyone hurt. I just want DBB “the lane is OUR house.”

But I like Rosen’s idea of pounding the ball low. Big Z, Verajo & (not counting Wallace) are still a big man short. However, I am torn if Sheed can get one of these guys out on the perimeter and Dyess/Tay hit the boards. But I think to start of the game, Sheed needs to camp his but on the blocks. If Clev goes zone, then I think Sheed needs to swing outside a bit. If he’s on, the Cavs will go back to man-to-man. If not, go back to the block. MC, it ain’t that hard of a concept to grasp.

Finally, I think we need to take it hard to the hole every chance we get. Get Z or Varejo or (“God forbid” said the Commish) LeBron in foul trouble. If need be, we need to make it painfully obvious the refs are giving LeBron a break on the calls. Make is so obvious that even Sheed can bitch about it and not get teed up. OK, that last sentence is a pipe dream. But who better to have hope regarding a pipe dream than Sheed!!

brgulker: I could see that in parts but not big chunks. You mention rotating big man and I would like to see Kwame put some people on their asses if they drive the lane. NO. LAYUPS. PERIOD. I don’t want anyone hurt. I just want DBB "the lane is OUR house."

It’s funny you mention that – I had this post written that I didn’t submit about how much better of a defender I think Tay was when he had the Ben and Sheed 2005 protecting the land. If you’re settling for jumpers against Tay, you’ve got a guy who’s 6’9 with long arms challenging your shot. But since he’s built like Paris Hilton, you’re going to take him to the hole every chance you can get. I love Dyess, but him and Sheed play matador defense with the help. Max and Kwame could talk LBJ out of going to the rim 12 times per game.

I love Dyess, but him and Sheed play matador defense with the help. Max and Kwame could talk LBJ out of going to the rim 12 times per game.

It’s hard for me to explain how much I agree with you. I’ve been harping all season that our best big lineup is one that does not have Sheed and Dice on the floor for a big chunk of minutes. They are too old for it; it’s that simple.

@Shinions: 18 with Kwame’s 6. Add in Fabio’s and LeBron’s got 24 reasons not to go to the hole.

Well then, that’s my motto for the Clev series:

NO. LAYUPS. PERIOD.
The lane is OUR house!!

Anybody with me?

Correction. 18 with Fabio’s.

I hope Kwame starts with Sheed, and I hope that Bynum and Stuckey get even minutes. If we want to force them into foul trouble, Bynum gets more FT attempts than any active Piston per 36 even without superstar treatment (which should come as a surprise to no one). If our shots fall and we get lucky, this series could be interesting.

I concur with the NO LAYUPS crew, give me a seat on that wagon. Put Lebron on his ass, I don’t care if we run out of bigs and Sharpe ends up our center.