The MSM is relevant, timely

Whilock’s article really rips AI apart (no pun intneded). And he also frames it around the “me first” mentality of AI and today’s youth. From what Lisa Olson writes, I’d say a good number of DBB posters here have been saying this all season long regarding ball movement and AI poinding the rock. In short: AI was brought to fit in, not vice-versa.

I think shot comparison and percentage is a bit misleading given who AI has played with vs. Zeke and the fact that more times than not AI got the ball at the end of the shot clock. This excludes the times he dribbled the air out of the ball for the first 20 seconds though.

Yeah, I noticed that AI shutting it down for the year didn’t make waves as a national story becuase other NBA things were going on. I took it as a sign that AI’s days as a major draw are over.

it would be so nice if the old unit could get there shit together in the playoffs. and why not? it is essentially the same team that beat orlando. kwame for ratliff. kwame is super big and strong and it isn’t as if ratliff was an offensive giant either. i might just take kwame there. bynum for hunter. i take bynum. walter for jarvis hayes. i take walter easy. affalo is much more seasoned too!
     is it possible?

the next four games will tell a lot.

give a.i. a break already. he was a great player. now he is getting old. it didn’t work out in detroit. he played hard but said some dumb things. he hurt himself. it is hard for athletes to get old while still young. i just want to end the season on a decidedly up note.

afb: I think you said it all “he was a great player.”

I think by default he should have come in and tried better to fit in. Play hard? So did JR Rider and Starbury when he gets off the pine. Nobody questions his effort, except on defense.

But like Yoggi said: It’s 90% mental and the other half is physical. Nobody’s ever questioned AI’s physical abilities. But to say you can’t come off the bench or else you’ll cry (in essence)? That’s completely opposite of how the pistons play and are constructed. At the end of the day, we’d be in the same position if Billups were here and AI had been traded for Rip I think. We more or less tried that when Rip went to the bench.

I think he could’ve made 6-8M for 3-4 years and probably been a leading 6th man candidate if he had a better mental make up. Perhaps this summer knowledge and reality meet up with him. I personally think he’s no longer a sure-fire first ballot HOF because of this. I’m pretty sure Whitlock won’t vote for him if he’s got one.

anyone watching bulls sixers and biting his nails?

Doug Collins described us as “dangerous”. Awwww yeah.

Kamla needs to lay off the booze.

a specialty show on a specialty tv station… you’d think in today’s tough economy that shows like “fantasy insider” would the way of the do-do bird. especially considering when this assfuck gets on the TV, and I’m by chance watching NBATV (which is only when the Pistons are on, usually) I change the station.

He knows very little about basketball, his repeating of Will Bynum’s name and then disrespecting his skills proves he only knows about name brand talent.

The fact that he references his audience as “freaks” when he breaks down his rambling at the end of his “rant”.

“he’s a hall of fame player, who’s still in the prime of his career”

41.6 FG%
28.6 3P%
17.4 PPG
Add on top of that numerous boneheaded plays, bouncing the air out of the ball, and general overall whining…

This guy’s shtick would do well in written form, because his monotone delivery and general lack of basketball knowledge make my ears bleed.

“My Wolves” are a perfect fit? even Kevin McHale isn’t that stupid…

You don’t know how many times I’ve been told AI > Isiah Thomas, and every time, it pisses me off because that is wrong.

Isiah could have taken 4-5 more shots per night. Were Rick Mahorn and Dennis Rodman going to miss their attempts? Even Joe Dumars could have shot it less, if they let Isiah run as a ‘superior.’ They didn’t. It was the right call. It was a team concept then, and it is a team concept now.

Even Jordan knew he couldn’t win it by himself. He needed Pippen and a HOF coach and enough role players, working together, to make things happen. It took Jordan a handful of years to figure that one out, too.

I agree with Whitlock on this. AI’s just an asshole. Nothing more. HOF numbers … bench-warmer personality. It’s a beautiful hit piece because it’s true.

AI has a weird game (small for NBA, dominantes ball, doesn’t shoot a high FG%, gets to the line a ton) but he’s absolutely a great player. It’s just that Iverson requires all kinds of special planning to integrate successfully into a roster, something Detroit (and Denver, and Philly in the later years) were unable or unwilling to do. Dikembe Mutombo, Kyle Korver, Marc Jackson and Aaron McKie all thrived playing next to Iverson but those guys all have unbalanced skill sets of their own. Dumars gambled that Iverson could change a bit and the Pistons could accomodate his game but hedged that long shot with the value of AI’s expiring contract. We all know how it played out but it’s revisionist history to all of a sudden say AI wasn’t very good in his career.

AI would look awfully good on Orlando next year, with all those 3 point shooters and Dwight Howard underneath. In that situation Iverson would look and sound like the consummate team player. He’d be the same guy in both DET and ORL but the perception would change based on the fit.

Yo coach pass the ball make the jumpers, stop the shooting droughts, offensive boards be consistant. On tight end of games stop driving stuckey you got three point shooters use them grab the offensive boards while shooting threes. And play the zone and stop letting teams shoot threes. Play smart detroit b ball. Joe d don’t you ever llet a team captain and leader go unless you have a equal or greater player come in you block head.

Sounds like all that weird game and special planning denotes a less than great player, joejoejoe. No definition of great needed all that special fucking attention and excuse attached.

Turn it around and look at Tayshaun Prince’s game. He gets knocked for being too unselfish yet Tay’s best skill is probably his ability to be a complimentary player in a team setting. If he’s put in a role where he has to be the focus it’s a bad role for him and a misuse of his talent, just like putting Iverson in a complimentary role on offense isn’t a good fit for him. Prince isn’t as good a complimentary player as Scottie Pippen but I bet he’d be damn close if he came into the league in the same situation as Pippen, playing next to Jordan.

Sauce – There are maybe a half dozen players in NBA history who could do everything offensively and defensively in multiple positions. Outside of that group, all players (some of whom I’d call great) have virtues and flaws that need to be accounted for in a 5 man unit.

Just to clarify, I’m not defending Iverson not trying harder to be a complimentary player or to be a Ginobili type player coming off the bench. There’s no excuse for that period, never mind the ‘whoa is me’ attitude from somebody getting paid $20 million a year.

It’s just that context colors the press coverage. KG is a first class a-hole yet his schtick is now seen as being an ‘intense winner’. Bruce Bowen gets some guff for being dirty but he’s no dirtier than John Stockton, who mostly got covered like he was a choir boy.

I think Dumars is very smart and just didn’t care how AI fit in or didn’t fit in. It was the best financial deal he could make so he made it. So what if the Pistons odds of winning a championship went from 10-1 to 20-1 in one year? Dumars is trying to make the odds 2-1 and to get there he needed to make changes.

Tayshaun Prince is good, not great, and nobody’s touting him to be a HOFer.

The most damaging flaw isn’t a lack of an outside shot or poor defense (although, poor defense goes a long way to failure in this league). Time and again, shitty personality, that’s the killer of greatness. It’s the biggest fucking flaw there is … character.

And 3j, those guys are all equal assholes, but they’re not saying they’ll do whatever it takes to win a championship … and failing to do more than just that. Even if KG is spun as an affable guy when he does what he does, at least he fit into that team. He’s not a gigantic fucking elephant in the corner of the room, around his team. I see through that KG bullshit about his consummate winning attitude, and I see that Bowen is not unlike Stockton. To be fair, all of those guys, KG, Bowen, and Stockton, they all did things that the Bad Boys would have approved. I see the irony in Boston fans, in particular, defending their team’s ‘dirty’ play, when they defended their own ‘clean’ Bird teams in defense of a ‘very dirty’ Bad Boys Pistons.

I don’t care if you’re not defending him, 3j. The idea that AI is ‘great’ … is a fucking lie. It always has been.

Going back to all that special attention … I thought the opponent needed to do a lot of that special attention and game-planning around a guy, for him to be considered great … not his own fucking team.

AI has a weird game (small for NBA, dominantes ball, doesn’t shoot a high FG%, gets to the line a ton) but he’s absolutely a great player.

Great player? What is the definition of a great player?

Is a great player a guy who puts up ridiculous scoring numbers every single night no matter the quantity of shots? Is a great player a player who improves his shooting percentages, and improves different aspects of his game year to year to allow himself the opportunity to become one of the more efficient scorers in the league? Is a great player a guy who realizes that his game needs to take a step back, come off the bench, and improve his overall play? OR is a great player a guy who gets everyone involved in the game and plays the game the way it was meant to be played?

A look inside recent, popular, Pistons shooting guards:
Allen Iverson – Career ppg: 27.1ppg
Richard Hamilton – Career ppg: 17.9ppg
Joe Dumars – Career ppg: 16.1ppg
Jerry Stackhouse – Career ppg: 18.4

If you had to pick one of those 4, as General Manager (of course each guy is in their prime), which player would you pick?

Would you pick Allen Iverson? No doubt Allen Iverson can put teams on his back and win games single handedly. He fills it up with 27 points per night, 25% of your average team’s point output. The guy has the chance to possibly win you an MVP award…

You know he also is a high volume shooter, which means low FG%, which means rebounding, which means you need a solid frountcourt at worst. Do you want a guy who, on average, throws up 22 shots a night and only knocks down 9 of them? As a shooting guard, he only takes roughly 4 3 point shots per night but you hold your breath that he makes 1 of them with his 31% 3P%. So you know he can’t help spread the floor for your bigs to keep the double teams at bay. At one point in his career he was putting up 28 shots a night and only making 11 of them for a 39.8% clip. Do you want a guy who has never improved his mid range game, 3 point game or free throw game?

Then on defense, you got a guy who on what, 90+ possessions a night for the opposing team, he’ll jump in the passing lane and steal a couple of passes leading to break away layups (which makes his shooting percentage look even worse). When he gambles to steal a pass, his man will break to the rim and possibly rack up points with ease. A guy who you don’t believe will do whatever it takes for the team to win, but you hope he can because of his scoring ability. Oh… and he’s only played 82 games twice in his career. or…

Do you want a guy who began his career shooting 42%, improved to 43% in year 2, improved to 44% by year 4all the way up to 49% by year 7 by basically improving his mid range game, because his strong suit is utilizing his teammates’ screens to get open which cause open lanes for the big men to cut to the rim if the shot off the curl is not there. He also put in the time to improve his overall 3P% and while he isn’t quite a threat, to go from 26% to 45% at 3s in 2 seasons is quite good and it shows work is being put in. Then when you see him have a dip back to 34% he jumps back up the next season to 44%? Showing improvement 2x in his career for a weakness that he addressed during an offseason or training camp?

Also, he’s not the best ballhandler and he’s not exactly the greatest defender but he does not allow his man to get off on spectacular nights and more often than not he pours in points in a more efficient manner than the man he is checking. or…

Do you want a team first guy.. a guy from a small school who is a bit of a combo guard. He’s been known as a tenacious defender and can singlehandedly take the other team’s SG out of the game. He’s a guy who will score efficiently (46% career FG, 38% career 3s while only taking 2 a night). He’ll take 12 shots a night, which is not unheard of from a SG, but he’ll knock down 5-6 of them. He’ll be happy with 34 minutes a night and be virtually deadeye from the free throw line. A guy you can see be a building block for the franchise and a guy you can see working for the franchise in the future… or…

Do you want a guy who starts off his career wanting to be the #1 option. So much so that he goes to the front office and demands to be traded to another team because he cannot play with a teammate (oddly enough the first option listed), and when he goes to the other teams he fulfills his destiny to fill up the cup every night to the tune of 24, 30, 21, 22 points per game while remaining healthy and in the prime of his career. He is not the worst defender, he’ll steal you a ball each night. But then as his health and skills begin to deteriorate he accepts the fact that he should come off the bench where he becomes one of the league’s best 6th men who wants to stay with his team and is satisfied in his role even though he averaged 15ppg in his first season where he mostly came off the bench.

It’s up to your idea of “greatness”… I think “greatness” is championships, and being part of a team and willing to improve your skills over your career.

AI has not improved anything except his points per game, because he didn’t trust his teammates.

Richard Hamilton improved his game by developing a 3 point shot, developing his defense, and continuing to improve his scoring efficiency. He sacrificed shots, to fit into a system.

Joe Dumars, well he’s Joe Dumars. He was a mid-first rounder. He could extend the defense with his 3s, but he shot a high enough percentage from the midrange that running off screens and spotting up on the catch and shoot when he’s open that he specialized in it. He was a lockdown defender. One of the better defenders in the league, before the handcheck was outlawed. Ultimate team player.

Jerry Stackhouse. Who knew he’s be as big of a team player as he turned out to be? While he has complained this season about his PT, he accepted a role off the bench (like Dice) knowing that his health would be better off. He can fill it up with the best of them in his prime, almost at an AI pace and same numbers, but he backed off when his health and skills began to deteriorate.

So what’s great? Is AI great because of his points? He’s a horrible shooter, and a horrible defender. I can score 2 baskets from the midrange the rest of my life if you give me 5 chances.

Is Hamilton great because of how he has improved his game over his career? Is he great that in years his points per game went up his attempted shots per night went down.

Is Dumars great because of how steady of a player he was on both ends of the court? You knew what you were getting from Joe and Rip each night.

Is Stack great because he has the ability to fill it up with reckless abandon and then he took a backseat for the betterment of his career and his team?

I don’t know… Hopefully “great” isn’t just about the points per game, because that’s pretty short sighted. I’d say overall game is what makes you great.

- Wilt, Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, LeBron, Bill Russell, Robertson, etc. No matter the position they played, they played both ends of the court.

David Robinson, Tim Duncan, shit… even KG and Pierce.

Those guys are all great players. They do it on both ends, not just on offense.

AI has his shortcomings like all players do. He’s a hall of famer because he has scored a lot of points in the league. If the Hall of Fame were only best all around players? I don’t know

Boney – I like AI’s game, just not late in his career and not in Detroit.

He could win when he was young with a volleyball team around him which is what he had in Philly when he helped take his team to the Finals. Mr. Right Way Larry Brown likes AI too so it’s not as simple as just playing team ball. Team ball is what the coach says it is. If you are coaching Eric Snow, George Lynch and Tyrone Hill would you run Detroit’s balanced offensive sets or let Iverson run the team like he is QB of a wishbone offense? Iverson’s .519 career TS% doesn’t suck. The 10 FTs a night he was getting in his prime count as 8 points on top of his FGs and 5 fouls on the opposition. That’s not nothing.

I’m using ‘great’ as getting somebody who could carry a team in his prime, not career great or cumulative stats. I guess there should be a special class of great for guys like Pippen or Dumars who couldn’t really be THE guy on great teams but always made everybody better.

The HOF and AI’s popularity are other things. AI has always had an outsized following compared to his game. He’s never really been better than Ray Allen, even in college, but you wouldn’t know that from how things play in the press.

I think it’s the first time ever I’ve ever agreed with Whitlock…still he has to go off and make some sort of retarded comparison to Ron Jeremy. I mean, who wants to be some unemployable late 50-something ex porn star?

So, I’ve been tossing around this theory for a while. And the more I consider it, the more solid it seems:

Alan Iverson = Sarah Palin

Why did McCain chose Palin? Cuz he knew he was going to lose. With the horrific unpopularity of Bush, Iraq, economic doldrums, and the charisma of Obama…no way was he going to pull off anything better than a respectable 48% and 175 electoral votes. So, he rolls the dice; he figures that maybe, just maybe, a green, not-quite coherent, but engaging personality strikes a chord. Maybe it draws in some disaffected Hillary voters. Probably not, but perhaps he went from not a chance to a slight chance. And all he lost was a few meaningless percentage points.

Billups could have made (to quote our friend joejoejoe) a 10-1 longshot. But what the hell—Dumars figured to take a shot. No doubt the trade made the Pistons a worse team. And, in retrospect, this pretty much was going to happen. But Iverson could have emerged as the basketball upside of Palin. Maybe his unique skill set could have sparked a team that just wasn’t seriously championship competitive any longer. Probably not. Probably end up doing the hardwood equivalent of touting his ability to view Russia as his foreign affairs experience. And he did. But this team wasn’t going to win the Electoral College anyhow.

So, Iverson = Sarah Palin. What do you think, DBB?

Great analysis everyone. I think the one thing that gets left out of the greatness chat was Iverson’s ability to dominate other players in the league. No matter what his stats show or how big or small he was, for a few years he was flat-out one of the most talented offensive players in the game. He dominated the guy who tried to guard him, he dominated the big men who tried to block his shots, he dominated the double and triple-teams that tried to slow him down. He really was a force on the floor, despite his weird game and dubious lack of teamwork. I’ll go with joejoejoe and say Iverson was a great player, probably deserving of the HOF.

“He could win when he was young with a volleyball team around him which is what he had in Philly when he helped take his team to the Finals.”

His team could win when he was young, under the tutelage of Larry Brown. Brown made that team.

I’m not saying the guy can’t play and he can’t carry a team… but there comes a time where the scheme wins out in a season where you win 69 games (including playoffs).

AI gets to the line, but missed field goals on fouls don’t count towards your percentage. He shoots horribly from the field and has done nothing to improve his game during his entire career. Even if he banged in 44% from the field or if he played on a team and helped develop a “Scottie Pippen” to his MJ… AI’s absence has worked wonders for Andre Iguodala and the young 76ers.

I can’t say he’s a great player because he has done nothing to revolutionize his own game, let alone the NBA. AI is a good player… his game reminds me a lot of Bernard King. People don’t respect King because they see him as nothing but a scorer… same with Adrian Dantley… neither of them played very good defense, King was possibly one of the worst defensive small forwards I’ve ever seen. King isn’t in the Hall…

That Palin comparison is pretty good for this year. The only big difference I see — and caution, the following depends on one’s political perspective, and I don’t want to turn this thread all political like the Knicks thread — is that with AI, Detroit always knew it was going to get a significant positve next year. Either AI was actually going to work out so well he would stay, or (and this was always probably more likely), he and his sizeable cap space would leave. I know some folks think Palin will be a plus in the future for the Repubs, but I don’t think so.

Dantley, I think, played D about as well as Mark Aguirre did.

I think it depends on one’s definition of greatness. If we’re talking about rings, then Robery Horry is a sure fire HOF. Perhaps he does make it into the HOF. But there are a number of teams who made sure they carved out enough $$ to make him a viable option to sign. AI? Not very many at this stage of his career, if any.

AI could dominate the game because he had the skills, but I think it also depends on his coaching. If you’re coaching some AAU or type team or college, you roll the ball out and say “go with it AI.” JR Rider played a JC season before UNLV at the local school here and that’s exactly what the coach said he did. Take a guy like Rose or a CP#, and you probably could have done the same thing.

I also think the problem with AI is that he never worked on a specific part of his game during the off-season, ala’ Magic, Bird or Micheal. Each came into the league with sub shooting from 3 pt line or some other aspect and tried to improve upon it during the off-season in a variety of ways and to improve other skills. AI played like AI as though he’d be the only 35 year old out there still playing like he was 20 in terms of quickness and ability to get a shot off. Can you imagine how devastating he’d be with a semi-consistent 3 pt shot having to come out farther on the perimeter to guard him? In turn opening up the middle even more for himself and teammates. Maybe he has. If he has, it hasn’t worked. . . or he hasn’t worked hard enough. He’s relied on his quickness and handle to get the job done and those have pretty much left him.

Sure, when AI said “I’ve never been on a team that would be better with me coming off the bench” certainly rings true and has probably been true throughout his career. The problem though is, up until the Denver trade and then the trade here, he’s always been surrounded by somewhat of a volleyball team. AI needs a personality bigger than him to “keep him focused.” Thompson did it in G-town, Larry did it in Philly and someone like KG could do it. Dwight perhaps. As long as he’s the best guy on the team and is treated as such, he’s always going to be about AI first, second and last.

AI’s sitting at home and the phone rings this summer and it’s Kobe. Wanna play with us, but you’ll have to come off the bench. I think AI bites at that because he won’t be the best player on the team so he can’t out bitch everyone and the personalities are large enough in LA to overshadow him. On the pistons, he is the best player, just not the best fit.

At the end of the day, there are a number of guys in the NBA who could put up AI’s stats (for a season or two) given how much AI dominates the ball. It’s just that they’re not allowed to or don’t want to. Give Rose, Nash, CP3, Deron Williams or even Gordon (Clips) 20+ shots a night and I think they too can put up ~25+ points per nite.

At the end of the day, basketball is probably the strongest team sport. Excluding specific plays, you make an error in baseball or football, it’s a 11% or 9% problem given the number of players. In basketball, an error is 20%, given the number of players and the size of the fields in comparison to the possible error. As a DB, lose your guy on the other end of the field, it’s still a 60 yard pass that has to be pretty well thrown for the error to hurt you. In basketball, it’s a 30 foot pass with no wind and perfect playing conditions every game. This isn’t perfectly true (i.e., QBs or pitchers), but it does illustrate I think how much in basketball you have to depend upon your teammates and how much of it is a team game.

At the end of the day, even the greatest, MJ, realized he couldn’t win it by himself and had to depend on teammates. AI has just never realized that. Nor does he care to.

"He could win when he was young with a volleyball team around him which is what he had in Philly when he helped take his team to the Finals."
This perspective always bugs me. Everyone always overlooks Mutumbo, who led the league in rebounding and was the DPotY. They also had the Sixth Man of the Year in McKie and of course, a hall of fame coach.

Everyone rags on his teammates that year, but they worked within the perfect AI system, where he’s allowed free reign to “work his dribble” and “deform defenses” or whatever. And this idealized AI offense was still mediocre. That team got most of its wins because of its strong rebounding and defense (it had a strong shot blocking presence with one of Ratliff or Mutumbo, and it had good perimeter defenders throughout), not its offense. AI deserves credit for making that offense tick, but most of the time he is given credit for all of that team’s success.

God, I hate sportswriters. Anyone who’s consistently watched the Pistons this season knows that WB has been better over the past 15-20 games for the Pistons than AI was, apart from the 7-game win streak.

I am so sick of hearing about how great AI when all he does is score a bunch of points for teams that lose. He’s not a great player. He’s an inefficient scorer. He turns the ball over more than average guards. He’s a liability on defense who gets posted up and gambles which “deforms” the defense and leaves his teammates scrambling.

Unless any of that changes in the next 1-2 years, he will never be a great player — never.

=====

And btw, damn this thread. I’m sick of talking about AI and how much he f’d our team this season.

Good riddance to him and this thread.

FOr the record, I do’nt count Matt Watson in the “I hate sportswrtiers” comment.

Dr. Berri’s thoughts on MFWB:

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/the-other-better-bynum/

The NBA TV guy reminds me of the crazy guy from Revolutionary Road.

The final verdict:

Allen Iverson is the Walt Bellamy of guards.

Yeah, I can imagine AI as Kobe Bryant.

My final verdict:

Allen Iverson is Tito Jackson; Kobe Bryant is Michael.

Awww yeah, fuck Tito!

Sauce: Agreed. I heard Fratello last nite when Kobe was at the elbow of the key + a step that you can’t guard him without bodying up. He’ll do the jab step a couple of times and get you rocking and then he’ll just rise up and shoot over you or take a large step past you. Frat said you got to get in his face and challenge him.

I see this as the sorta same thing as AI. Now that I think of it, does anyone remember AI improving his game since he came into the NBA? I know the mental aspect and physical maturity. But in terms of a 3 pt shot or a lane teardrop, I can’t remember anything. I mean, when he has it going he has it going. But as a, for the lack of a better description, a consistent outside catch and shoot shot type improvement. I can’t remember anything. Of course it’s not like I’ve watched him alot. What say you AI fans?

Random thoughts and comments:

- Samuel Dalembert has 0-33 assist to turnover ration in his last 24 games. That’s like that rookie season where Maxiell had no assists the whole year.

- Judging from the articles today, the Pistons will be ready to play. It’s all talk about how Devin Harris has owned them.

- This year’s draft has a lot of PGs but I don’t think any of them is a significant upgrade over (if at all) over Bynum. Unfortunately, there are no true SFs coming out except for Earl Clark who looks like a project. It may be hard to find a “wind-speller for Prince Tayshaun.”

- I do like Jrue Holiday from UCLA as a future backcourt mate for Stuckey though. He’s going to declare.

- Does anyone know the playoff seeding tie-breakers?

tie-breaker info central

I “wind-speller for the Prince” would be nice— how about Terrence Williams? He’s almost the exact same player, albeit a more raw version, but he has decent handles, passes well, rebounds extremely well, and was the best defender on the best defensive team in the nation. Problem is, he sucked such a dick towards the end of the tournament that he’s more likely an early 2nd rounder— not really worth our 15th or 16th pick. Check out the stats though:

12.5 ppg
5 apg
8.6 (!) rpg
2.3 spg
.8 bpg

Not bad, but his offensive game REALLY needs work. You gotta love almost 9 rebounds per game from a 6’6" guy though.

According to most mock drafts, these are the guys most likely to be around in our neck of the woods (10-20):

Ty Lawson – PG
Wayne Ellington – SG
Greg Monroe – PF
Al-Farouq Aminu – SF
Gerald Henderson – SG
Eric Maynor – PG
Tyreke Evans – SG
Stephon Curry – SG
Dejuan Blair – PF
BJ Mullens – C
Cole Aldrich – C (if he declares— friend of a friend is friends with him and claims he’s already got an agent, so we’ll see)
Psycho-T – PF
Jeff Teague – SG

And obviously random others, but basically, there are bunch of point guards, which Bynum has mad officially a non-need at this point IMO, a bunch of undersized shooting guards, some undersized power forwards, and one project-ass center who I want no part of.

I’m really high on Tyreke Evans though. He was great on a great Memphis team as a freshman this year, and if I remember correctly, he was the number one rated recruit of this last year’s freshman class too. He reminds me of a correctly sized Eric Gordon (without the 3pt range). I’ve already made my arguments for Psycho-T on another thread, so I’m not going to rehash it, but I do like him for our team in a bench/roleplayer type role (I know, flame me you nut-jugglers). DeJuan Blair is a better Big Baby Davis, which is good or bad, depending on how you look at it. Way undersized but thick/strong as HELL and was the best offensive big man in the game this last season other than Griffin. Plus he has fantastic passing skills and court-vision. I definitely see some “Scoreless Corliss.” Gerald Henderson might be good, but I feel like we have the same guy, maybe a little better, in AA right now. Cole Aldrich I love. He plays fantastic defense, rebounds like a fucking monster, and already has a decent post game with a couple moves. If he’s on the board, we have to take him. This is an “if” though.

So basically, I have no idea who we should take, because based on our needs and the players out there, there really isn’t a “perfect fit.”

My votes:

Terrence Williams
Tyreke Evans
DeJuan Blair
Psycho-T
Cole Aldrich (if he declares)

Thanks Sauce. So it looks like the Pistons need to beat Chicago in case they end up with the same record. If not, Chicago wins the tie-breaker.

If they beat Chicago and end up with the same record, then it goes to division record and then conference record. Detroit would at least tie on division record (depending on whether or not they beat Indiana on Sat.) and would definitely win conference record.

So, that’s a roundabout way of saying that if the Pistons beat Chicago on Monday, they will get the 7th seed in the event of a tie.

Yeah, Terence Williams wouldn’t be bad. For some reason, I always look at anything under 6’7" as too short for SF. He could be a more athletic version of AA.

I like Evans but he’ll be gone. So will DeRozan. And Willie Warren.

DaJuan Blair is a stretch for mid-first round. The Big Baby comparison is apt.

Psycho-T might be available early second round.

Aldrich would be a good pick. I can’t see him being a starter in the league because I was not impressed with his athleticism, but he’d make a valuable backup.

Greg Monroe is intriguing. Supposedly has a lot of skills but maybe not the work ethic.

BJ Mullins has got the tools but will be 4 years from being worth a starting role (if ever).

Stephen Curry will probably be gone.

Another guy that intrigues me is SEC POY Marcus Thornton. Sounds like a great shooter/scorer at the SG position. He’s supposed to go early second round.

TOTALLY FORGOT:

Earl Clark, T-Will’s SF teammate on Louisville. Check the stats:

14.2 ppg
8.7 rpg
3.2 apg
1 spg
1.4 bpg

Essentially a more athletic, 6’9" version of the same guy with worse passing skills but more blocks. Mid-first round pick f’SHO.

Also, can’t forget about Craig Brackins from Iowa state. 6’10", built, athletic, great offensive game already. Reminds me a lot of Jason Thompson, a guy who didn’t get as much attention coming out of a smaller school but has had a very promising rookie year. Check the stats:

20.2 ppg
9.7 rpg
.9 blocks

Not enough defensive effort, IMO, if a guy that’s 6’10" is blocking less than one shot per game. But that can be taught and he definitely has the tools.

Cole Aldrich seems to me to be this year’s Brook Lopez/Spencer Hawes. No he’s not athletic, no he’s not got a ton of upside, but he screams 20-10 player to me AND he can play some defense (averages 2.7 blocks per game). He could give us a young big man with legit size who can shoot. If he falls to us, I’d love to see Joe pick him.

coachDP quick comment:

iveson 3 14 04 with SIXERS: “I’m a starter. I’ve been a starter here for eight years. I’m not a sixth man,”

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240314008

iverson SAME attitude then as NOW, next team better PLAN have him in STARTING lineup. just epinion

Paul M – Good points about Iverson’s underappreciated teammates on that Philly Finals team. Maybe part of the reason I’m still an AI fan is the kind of teammates he required in his prime to be successful. I love that ‘volleyball’ stuff. Nowadays Shane Battier is getting profiled in the NYT Sunday magazine for his underappreciated moneyball skills or whatever you want to call it. Philly had 4 guys like that in McKie, Snow, Hill and Lynch. One final note, the image of AI in his prime as turnover prone is unfair. The guy had an obscene usage rate and the lowest TOV% (apart from Matt Geiger in limited minutes) of any Sixer on that Finals team.

I wish AI well and I’ve enjoyed watching him since Georgetown but I’m done talking about him. This is a Pistons blog and whatever my opinion of AI in general, I agree he wasn’t a very good Piston.

Let’s remember the good times. Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grXws5m11SA

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLE5P-HHDn4

“I see this as the sorta same thing as AI. Now that I think of it, does anyone remember AI improving his game since he came into the NBA? I know the mental aspect and physical maturity. But in terms of a 3 pt shot or a lane teardrop, I can’t remember anything. I mean, when he has it going he has it going. But as a, for the lack of a better description, a consistent outside catch and shoot shot type improvement. I can’t remember anything. Of course it’s not like I’ve watched him alot. What say you AI fans?”

MarkButter… did you read anything I’ve written? He hasn’t improved any aspect of his game. He has stayed the same.

Garrett,

Watching that 2004 highlight tape makes tears well up in my eyes a little bit…

I remember my Dad and I watching that series clinching game, the same way we did back in 89 and 90. Knowing the before every game Stephen A Smith did nothing but bash the team, and then we watched them go out and beat the shit out of the Lakers was ridiculous…

I wish we could’ve squeezed more than 1 championship out of that core but then again… that 1 championship, if that’s all we win, makes up for the anger and heartache from the last few years where we fell short.

2004 was especially sweet living in LA where Laker fans were drunk with power after three titles. Listening to sports talk was glorious during the “Five Game Sweep.”

I remember that there was talk that the Lakers could come back from 3-1.