Remembering an Era: 2008-09

by Matt Watson on May 1, 2009 6:08 AM EDT

Once again, here's Patrick and Pardeep remembering the good old days fall back to earth ... MW

By Patrick Hayes

Predictably, columnists both local and national were just waiting for the final horn to sound in Detroit April 26 to unleash the venom. And boy, have they unleashed, haven't they?

Of course, it is fairly obvious the Pistons were not too into playing basketball for about, oh, the last six months or so. And if we can rely on columnists for one thing, we can rely on them to state the obvious. Usually loudly. But at least the accompanying pictures are handsome.

Maybe the negativity bothers me so much because I was perhaps the worst denialist in existence when it came to this run being over. Before the season, I vehemently defended keeping the core intact. I, um ... let's just say I got a little ahead of myself because of Michael Curry's preseason promises. I defended Rasheed Wallace. And I went a tad overboard defending Allen Iverson (I know ... that's not a popular stance around these parts ... please don't ban me).

Looking at how it ended, barely showing up against a Cavs team that exhibits all of the fun characteristics that made us love the Pistons early in their run, I obviously feel kind of stupid for some of the things I wrote as it was unfolding. We have to be honest: it became very hard to root for these guys at the end. But at the same time, we have to try not to let that diminish what this core group did accomplish, which was honestly remarkable.

There are plenty of apt comparisons between this era and the Bad Boys era: in nine straight playoff appearances, the Bad Boys won two titles, lost in the Finals once, the Eastern Conference Finals once, the second round once and the first round three times.

This version has been in the playoffs eight straight years, won a title, lost in the Finals once, lost in the Eastern Conference Finals four times, the second round once and the first round once.

This year, the Pistons lost in rather uncompetitive fashion to a team with a hungry superstar. In 1991, the Bad Boys were swept by a team with a hungry superstar. Remember this (skip to about the 8:20 mark unless you want to see about a million MJ highlights)?

Yes, I know, much weaker East now, winning in the Celtics/Lakers era and Jordan era is more impressive, we love Laimbeer, blah, blah, blah. I'm not making the case that one team was better than the other, I'm just making the case that success-wise, they were very comparable, and the current Pistons have done so without a Hall of Famer. The Bad Boys had two, along with borderline All-Stars in Rodman and Laimbeer and an insanely deep bench.

And while it was just as clear in 1991 that the Bad Boys era was over, at least they went out how we would expect them to: having several players leave the bench before time expired rather than shake hands with the Bulls.

The Bad Boys were Detroit basketball, though. Thomas, Dumars, Rodman and Salley were all drafted by the Pistons. Laimbeer was traded here midway through his second season. Those guys grew up together ... the bond was different. Their careers were associated with Detroit and nothing else to that point.

This version was a bunch of castoffs. Other than Prince, none of the core players were drafted here. Billups was on his sixth team, Rasheed Wallace was on his fourth, Ben Wallace on his third. They either came here because the Pistons were hiring or they came here because another team didn't want them and shipped them out. By the time they got here, they were veterans, hardened by the business of the NBA. The team was important because it was steady employment, but business clearly trumped any fond feelings for the team or city itself. When it was clearly over after the Billups trade, they knew their futures would be elsewhere.

We loved them because they were flawed, because they were castoffs and misfits in other places and because they came to Detroit and proved that teams who gave up on them or couldn't see their individual talents were wrong. Professional athletes are often not real to us, living some sort of superhero-wannabe life with unfathomable money that makes them seem not human. These players were real (Prince, Sheed and Billups were regulars at the TGI Fridays by my house when I lived in Auburn Hills, the same place all of the broke college students would eat three times a week) ... they went through things professionally that we can relate to. At their best, they triumphed over seemingly insurmountable odds and won a championship through sheer will. At their worst, they were fractured by in-fighting, complacency, age, management incompetence and their own egos -- real people issues.

Remember Me: No point in profiling a player here, since we are all fully aware of the roster. But, for Michael Curry's benefit, since he forgot about certain players all year, let's take a look back at his wonderful rotation highlights:

Amir Johnson started 24 games. He got DNP-CDs in 20 games.

Walter Herrmann played six minutes or fewer in 18 games in January and February. Then Michael Curry remembered Herrmann could shoot the three and he was moved back into the rotation the rest of the season.

Jason Maxiell was placed in Michael Curry's doghouse, not playing in two straight games in January, thus the DNP-MCIAFI was born.

And of course, the Allen Iverson/Rip Hamilton relationship was tenuous. Neither wanted to come off the bench. One was going to be pissed no matter what. How do we solve it? Make them both come off the bench, making both give up on the season. Bravo sir.

Best Moment: You mean I have to pick just one? Seriously though, this season was not without highlights, even if they were relatively minor compared to the past. The best thing to come out of the season ... the enigma known as William F. Bynum. If only they'd found him in 2005.

And before Mr. Stuckey hit the wall, he was ballin:

Awards: A certain beloved Piston was voted into the All-Star game. I think he has the Detroit fans to thank for that.

The Drama: The season was all drama, but it was defined by the Billups/Iverson trade.

Iverson is the easy villain in this. Billups went to Denver, balanced that team, gave them some toughness and has helped them be a competent playoff team for the first time in the Carmelo Anthony era.

But obviously, Iverson is gone. Joe Dumars will be defined by this move. As we've said, winning has masked some of his mistakes. Now, all eyes are on him, and this latest mistake directly ruined the season. If a big move is not forthcoming this summer or next, it will drastically affect his legacy as an executive.

Results: The team finished 39-43 and lost in four in the first round of the playoffs.

Best Boxscore: The Orlando Magic were a top four team in the NBA all season. They have arguably the best center in the league and solid players at every other position, yet they haven't been able to solve the Pistons for, oh, about four years or so. But that would all change now that the Pistons were barely a playoff team and the Magic were among the league's elite, right?

Not really. On March 9, the Pistons completed a season sweep of the Magic with a 98-94 win. Some things just make no sense.

Lasting Memories: Taken on its own, this season has no pleasant memories for any Piston fan. But honestly, was there any other way this could have ended? The five core guys on this team were so tight with each other, bonded by their collective failures elsewhere and success here. They wanted to stay in Detroit for each other. They wanted Detroit to be home because they were comfortable here.

When Ben left, it was on his own volition ... dude had to get paid. They understood. When Chauncey was traded, it was a business again. Any of them could go next. The passionless season had little to do with Iverson. It was about the players clearly seeing an ending to something they didn't want to end. I think it snuck up on all of them, even if it was obvious to the outside world the last three years that it had to be broken up.

I don't hold a grudge ... those guys did better here than any of us had a right to expect. If they are all shipped out next year, they will all go and be useful players on other teams, just like Chauncey did and just like Ben has done for Cleveland this year. It is probably best for Rip, Prince and Rasheed to move on as well, if fair trades can be found for Rip/Prince.

For the era to end that way, fans have every right to feel some bitterness. But it will heal. This team does deserve more from us than that, even if it is hard to accept the ending. The five core guys all accomplished enough here to have their jerseys hanging from the Palace rafters someday, and when they are hanging there, we will only remember the good times.

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Comments

I’ve told them repeatedly via email, but I just wanted to say publicly how much I appreciate the effort Patrick and Pardeep put into these season recaps. They’ve been a lot of fun to read … even this one, as fresh as the wound may be.

by Matt Watson on May 1, 2009 6:13 AM EDT reply actions

I can completely relate to feeling stupid after defending the Pistons this whole season. Sometimes I specifically read articles entitled “Was the Iverson trade a good idea? Uh, NO.” just to post comments defending Dumars. Can’t say every move is perfect, but he’s no idiot. (And most of those writers were wanting the core split up at the beginning of the season.)

by Drew on May 1, 2009 7:55 AM EDT reply actions

While in the short term, this season will be remembered for the AI disaster, Curry’s every-changing lineups, small ball, the lack of energy and maybe even interest (especially ‘Sheed and Tay) especially down the stretch and in the playoffs, I think there is one more negative that needs to be mentioned, because it’s arguably the most significant going forward. The young bigs — Amir and Maxy ~~- didn’t improve. Now maybe that’s Curry’s fault, at least in part, but any scenario in which Detroit was going to be really in ’08~~‘09 and competitive next year required Amir and Maxy to be roughly the equivalents of Perkins and Big Baby. And they weren’t even close.

Which gets to the Bad Boys comparison in the original post. Are we looking at a return to a long-ish Teal era of mediocrity? Detroit looks good at the guard positions, and I think Tay can still be a very useful piece, but the other positions all look shaky, and needing to get more than one quality front court player is going to be a challenge.

Looking around the NBA, it’s clear how much one player can change a team’s fortunes. No Ginobli and it’s a first-round exit for the Spurs . . . who lost to a Dallas team that got to the Finals once, did some tinkering, and hasn’t figured out how to get back. See also the Suns and Heat.

Beyond that, Zeke once said that to win a championship, you had to be both good and lukcy. To have a season like this with the players Detroit had required some bad luck. AI had deteriorated more than anybody thought. Detroit had more injuries than normal (had Rip and ’Sheed not been hurt for a couple of weeks, Detroit probably would have gotten the #6 seed, played Orlando, and maybe had a less ignomious end). Subjectively to me, it seemed like more balls bounced out at the end for us and went in at the end for other teams. While Curry had some terrible ideas, basically none of the buttons he pushed — and he pushed a lot — turned out well.

by Toledo Joe on May 1, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions

When Ben left, it was on his own volition … dude had to get paid.

Don’t sugar coat it. If memory serves, we offered him around 40 mil. and Chicago offered him around 50 mil. Dude was getting paid either way, and he opted for an EC rival over the team that put his name on the map. He got greedy, plain and simple.

I’m not necessarily reacting to your comment but to the way athletes are overpaid in general. Yesterday, I heard Kevin Love on Jim Rome’s show talking about guys “needing to feed their families.” I laughed. My wife and I feed our family on less than $40,000 / year, and we’re both working full-time. A lot of NBA players make that much for one game. That’s absurd.

On a positive note, I also defended keeping the core together, and I defended AI — even up to the point when he returned to the team after his ‘back injury.’ I thought he could help us. That didn’t change for me until his “I’d rather retire…” BS.

I was wrong.

I also like you comment about winning masking Joe’s mistakes. It’s a good way to put it. The biggest mistake was obviously Darko. I can’t even imagine how good we could have been with Bosh instead. In his defense, it’s not like Joe was alone in his eval. of Darko… almost everyone thought the kid would turn into a player.

by brgulker on May 1, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions

In his defense, it’s not like Joe was alone in his eval. of Darko… almost everyone thought the kid would turn into a player.

You know, I was thinking about this last night watching the Bulls-Celtics game. I remember reading about Glenn Davis going into the draft and the reports were glowing – the only negatives were things like “He’ll be a solid NBA player, but scouts worry that he could eat his way out of the league after his first big contract.” If you’re fairly sure he’s going to be a solid NBA player, how does he fall to 35? How does Jason Smith go 15 picks ahead of him? How does Adam Morrison and Shelden Williams go ahead of Brandon Roy?

I think things like this is a pretty strong contribution. But it doesn’t really seem that hard to figure who’s going to make it in the league. Ty Lawson, James Harden, and Stephen Curry are always going to have a place in the league. DeMar DeRozan, B.J. Mullens, and Ed Davis (if he would have come out) are pretty strong candidates to be a bust. I don’t get it. But this is a league in which teams were fighting over who was going to get to pay Gilbert Arenas’ knee $120 million last year…

by Shinons on May 1, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions

I disagree about Steph Curry, Shinons, and I would base that on the fact that powerhouse schools did a very good job against him. Even though he almost always scored a lot of points, he had to take a lot of shots to get them.

Yeah, he played on a bad team, etc. etc., but it won’t get any easier in the League.

IMO, he has JJ Reddick written all over him.

Also, I think you would like Wages of Wins, because that’s the focus of the book — player evaluation.

by brgulker on May 1, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions

Ugg… add me to list of people who defended the Billups for A.I. trade when it first happened.

Now it’s looking like Billups will be a solid point guard for another five years and I can’t believe Dumars had to give up Dice and Samb as well to get the deal done.

(Sure, we got Dice back but it still makes this deal look even more lopsided.)

Ugg.

by Matt on May 1, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions

I didn’t defend the trade, per se, especially initially. For the first couple weeks, I thought Joe D had lost his mind.

But once I got past the emotional frustration of it all, I accepted AI was a Piston and started thinking about how he could help the team.

Can you imagine the season had Dice stayed in Denver?

Dear Lord.

by brgulker on May 1, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions

@Shinons: Agreed that NBA draft analysis usually makes things seem more complicated than it actually is. The players that were good in college (statistically) at the highest levels, and that have NBA size and athleticism, will usually end up being the best players. Rarely will a player make it in the league with only one side of that coin fulfilled (stats vs. measurable’s), but the players that have both usually aren’t that hard to find.

Also, sometimes players stats can give you a better idea of their size/athleticism than just looking at them, as someone like Blair (or Millsap) has to be at least a decent athlete to rebound and steal at the rates that they do, even if they don’t look athletic.

A great site to check out if you’re interested in the draft is: http://hoopsanalyst.com/

There’s a quick, new draft update there at the moment, but the guy goes very in-depth as the draft gets closer (if you look through the sites archives, there’s a bunch of interesting stuff about past drafts).

by Gabe on May 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions

I don’t think anybody “defended” the trade, as in “oh, this will make us better this year and certainly better in the future.” Some of us — and I’ll plead guilty to it — thought, "well, if we get Dyess back, AI might . . . MIGHT work out decently in that he would be the real offensive “closer,” the one-on-one player you could give the ball to in the clutch/down the stretch who would always force double teams and get some of those “superstar calls” no Piston ever got. And then much later some of us thought, well, he might . . . MIGHT be an offensive sparkplug off the bench that would be useful.

OK, neither of those things happened. Maybe it was dumb to think they would or realistically could happen. But I do remember saying, repeatedly, that while I didn’t know if AI actually was going to be a useful piece, that I was pretty sure that Detroit wasn’t going anywhere in the playoffs if he wasn’t going to be. And I think that’s right; I don’t think there was a realistic scenario where last year’s team minus Chauncey plus a better Will Bynum was going anywhere.

by Toledo Joe on May 1, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions

You put that well, TJ. If we were going to go anywhere, we needed AI to provide a scoring punch. Well said.

by brgulker on May 1, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions

Great summary! Thanks for the trips down memory lane, Patrick and Pardeep — they’ve been a blast. For me, this will always be the season of MCIAFI (thanks for coining that, MP). Yeah, there were bumps in the road and unexpected changes and blah blah blah, but that’s why your coach (and his STAFF) do what they do; it’s their job to prepare the players and figure out the best way to put them in a position for success. Anyways, I’ve had enough Cury Fury for one season, so I’ll stop rambling and just post this link to the thank you video sent to the Palace email list:

http://www.palacenet.com/video/thankyou09.html

by Garrett on May 1, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions

@Garrett:
I don’t think I can take credit for MCIAFI. I’d love to, but I think that was penned by another…

by Mike Payne on May 1, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions

@Garrett:
I checked. Here is the exact moment that MCIAFI was born:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-12-09/detroit-smallball-invades-our-nations-capital/#comment-155268

Rob G: the Mother of MCIAFI

by Mike Payne on May 1, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions

After Game 4 I was thinking about the future how long it would take Joe D to take the Pistons back to the Eastern Conference Finals and realized something I hadn’t thought of before: Mr. D is gone, the future of the organization isn’t clear by any means, and unless he has an excellent relationship with Mr. D’s wife, Joe D is probably no longer a “sacred cow” himself. He’s probably working for his job over the next 2 seasons or so as well.

Do you think that might effect, say, how short of a lease Curry has next season if they look like a lottery team coming out of the gate? Can Joe D afford to take as many so-called “projects” in the draft or does he have to take a chance on finding more refined players to help win now? Will that matter at all? Honestly, I don’t know and don’t claim to know a thing about the inside workings, but I’d be interested to hear from an insider about what’s going on with the ownership switch and how that could affect the short and long term plans of the team.

by rjsplow on May 1, 2009 2:45 PM EDT reply actions

@MP: Ahhh, I thought it was you. Thanks for tracking that down! Gotta give credit where it’s due, because Rob G came up big with that one. That was back when we actually had a few nights of magic!

by Garrett on May 1, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions

unless he has an excellent relationship with Mr. D’s wife…

Heh heh.

by PS on May 1, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions

ps. pretty disgusting but pretty funny. hehehe.

by ric on May 2, 2009 2:23 AM EDT reply actions

Still think the fact that the Bad Boys didnt shake hands at the end was classless. Sorry but they should have given props to a team who they had some good battles with.

Im not saying you gotta hug them and all but a handshake would suffice

With that said, you would never have seen a reception like what those Bad Boys got compared to this Pistons core, which is also a shame. Nowdays after getting swept they would be booed and pelted.

by prophecy_projectz on May 2, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions

Great article on hoopsworld.com by Fran Blinebury entitled “Doomsday in Detroit?” It’s one of the few articles I’ve read that shows an appreciation for the Pistons’ accomplishments over the last eight years.

by Nick T. on May 2, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions

How the Detroit Pistons Have Failed Amir Johnson

by Ray Stone

The drafting miscues haven’t been the only soft spot for the Pistons under Joe Dumars.

Amir Johnson shines as a good example of how the Detroit Pistons do not do a good job of developing players…………..

Very strange to watch a team supposedly run out of gas, when they have a bouncy 19-year-old kid who would love to get on the floor and hustle for them. He was in street clothes a lot of games.

Suddenly this year the Pistons announced that they would start Amir Johnson at the power forward position. What? (Had they planned on this being a rebuilding year from the very beginning?)

He was clearly not ready to start. He hadn’t even been giving any consistent playing time at all in his career, now he’s going to be a starter in the NBA? WTH?

That’s not how it works.

After being thrown to the wolves and chewed up, Johnson was eventually benched again. Amir finished this campaign in a familiar fashion, glued to the Detroit bench.

It is too bad for the young guy. I really hope he is moved in a deal this summer for his sake. He needs a real opportunity to develop his basketball game.

He certainly has the talent to play at a high level in this league.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/166511-how-the-pistons-have-failed-amir-johnson

===
trade Johnson now.

by Mike on May 2, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions

@Mike:
68

by Mike Payne on May 2, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions

Mike is a joke.

My name is Boney, and I approve this message.

by Boney on May 2, 2009 6:03 PM EDT reply actions

First of all, lol at the Celtics fans who are calling Hinrich a dirty player for “boxing out Rondo too long.” Rondo with the nice attack on a guy with his back turned, followed by a swift backpedal. Did he learn that from the coward-in-chief? The king of the retreat? KG?

by Quick Darshan on May 2, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions

I can’t believe Rondo wasn’t suspended for that. Oh wait, yes I can: Game 7 and it’s Boston.

by Garrett on May 2, 2009 6:45 PM EDT reply actions

i actually think it would have been interesting if dyess had actually gone to denver. what would denver look like now? and who would have been added to the roster in detroit to fill the vacuum of dyess’s forty minutes?

by andyfrombrooklyn on May 2, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions

i like mike and his amir comments. the stupidity of the amir handling bugs me more than any other part of this still born season.

by andyfrombrooklyn on May 2, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions

Andy:

Denver’s big rotation would be unbelievable … Nene, Dyess, Birdman, K-Mart … that’s good enough to contend with the Lakers Odom/Bynum/Gasol frontcourt. Maybe not better, but those four could defend any type of big down low.

by Patrick Hayes on May 2, 2009 11:10 PM EDT reply actions

Dyess played at his best this season is probably as good as Boozer is. Makes me sour on the idea of Boozer.

As for Amir, my guess is that he’ll get traded to some other team where he’ll continue to get pushed around like a rag doll and fouling like his life depended on it. Then, Mike will go on and on about how he would have been a good player if only the Pistons developed him properly.

by Quick Darshan on May 3, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions