Fantastic article. I always love in depth coverage of a player behind the scenes — what makes Chauncey the way he his. Thought some things were probably slightly dramatized. Rooting for Denver to take on the Lebrons in the finals.

I just read this. An absolutely brilliant article that gave me such a warm feeling for Chauncey and a sick one for Pistons management. A kick in the guts is about right.

Chauncey is killing the Mavs.

Motor City singer Dwele is doing McDonald’s commercials for the TNT broadcast…

The Thuggets are lookin’ good tonight, but without the Birdman this game won’t be as fun to watch.

This article is politically correct BS.

Not that there isn’t truth to it, but now that Billups is out of Detroit ESPN and national bloggers and basketball writers are singing his praises.

Yet when he led the Pistons to one NBA title (MVP), 2 NBA Finals and 6 straight ECF it was always “The Pistons team”.

Too much too late. They should have saved it for his admittance into the Naismath HOF.

The Thuggets are lookin’ good tonight, but without the Birdman this game won’t be as fun to watch.>>

Dallas is a lousy team. People forget how bad the bottom 6 teams in the WC were this year. They absolutely stunk.

I haven’t looked it up but I am willing to bet that Dallas had a losing record against the other 15 playoff teams.

This series along with the Cavs and Hawks series should have been best of 5 to get the misery of it over sooner.

One funny thing in the Mavs game a few minutes ago: Chauncey drove to the hoop and drained a nice-looking floating layup as the shot clock expired. To paraphrase, the color commentator said something like, “Every team needs a guy who can create off the dribble, break down the defense, and get his own shot when plays fall apart. The Nuggets have two, Carmelo Anthony and Chauncey Billups.”

It’s funny and horrible because that was exactly the justification the Pistons used when they got Iverson. “Finally we have someone who can break down defenses and create his own shot at will. We’ve never had a guy like this. This is a real superstar we’re getting, finally.” Remember those kinds of quotes? Chauncey was the superstar who can create shots. It’s agonizing.

@BH
Yeah – and AI was supposed to get us those superstar foul calls we never got. Goddamn.

Jason Kidd is no good anymore, Dampier is soft and Antoine Wright isn’t starter material.

 Yeah some of these playoff teams are really flawed. NBA is really watered down. Even the elimination of 2 teams would drastically shore things up a bit. Just think, roughly 24-30 of the worst players gone just like that.

I’d like to see it.

Mike,

you sure you want to leave out your patented “Trade Amir Now” comment?

All,

Reading the Detroit part of that piece, it made me mad to think that he was done dirty like that article said. I believe parts of it were dramatized… but then again, the parts of the crying and everything with Rip he said happened in the Freep after the trade. The truth about Rip wanting out of Detroit came out in that e-ticket column whereas before Rip has always said “Idon’t know how it would’ve worked out” in interviews during the season…

We’ll see how Rip does this offseason, perhaps he’ll be traded (I doubt it).. with the cap room and contracts to pair with picks to fill the cap room, I think Rip could go as well depending on the offer. I’m surprised that came out in the column, honestly.

Chauncey was a pretty cute looking kid.

Great article.

I agree Mike, re: your first comment.

Another thing that’s frustrating is how well Chauncey is playing now. If he had played that well here for the last few years of the postseason, Dumars never would have had to trade him.

Man, I cannot think of anyone who has more faux-fire than Dirk. When he pumps his fist, you just don’t believe it. It’s like, Ja! I just make ze basket! Und ze foul! Vat is for dinner after ze game?

Great article but hard to read now, while watching Billups & Melo cruise to the conference finals. That pairing should have been in Detroit! Dumars’ selection of Darko over Melo is one of the worst draft picks in all of sport & we’re really paying for it now.

No way Billups is traded if Melo was a Piston – just look at them together… & no way Lebron & co are getting past that lineup.

“Chauncey was the superstar who can create shots.”

Considering how many people on this site bitched about how Chauncey couldn’t get to the basket, this sounds like revisionist history. Anyone remember how he was neutralized in the Cavs series?

I love Chauncey, but he’s not a superstar.

The second guy on the Nuggets that can create his own shot is J.R. Smith.

Great article. Feel happy for Chaunce, and I still have faith in Rip and hope he’s still part of our future going forward. I’m ready to say goodbye to Dyess and Sheed (they have been great for us over the years btw), but would love to see Rip and Tay continue to be apart of our future.

@QD:
I love Chauncey, but he’s not a superstar.

Agreed, and much of Chauncey’s improvement has to do with the PG landscape in the West. If Chauncey had met Deron Williams in the first round, none of this new-found fanfare would likely be happening. He’s succeeded against a 6’ zilch PG in round 1 and a dinosaur in the second (interesting to see how well Chauncey matches up against Kidd now, as opposed to 2002-03). Deron Williams is the only point guard in the west (well, earl watson used to give chauncey the shits, but he doesn’t count anymore) that gives chauncey a tough matchup.

I hate to knock the man’s achievements in these playoffs. We all know that he’s deserving of these accolades. I just think he’s better-suited to the PGs of the Western Conference, add that to a renewed spirit in his hometown and you’ve got one hell of a rennaissance.

BTW, heads are rolling in Oakland, which could signal a very moveable roster. I’m with QD’s suggestion of the Crawford contract, if and only if it involved Andris Biedrins.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/05/12/warriors-finally-oust-chris-mullin/

I would absolutely freak out if we got Biedrins. I love that dude’s game.

“I just think he’s better-suited to the PGs of the Western Conference, add that to a renewed spirit in his hometown and you’ve got one hell of a rennaissance.”

Plus remember Chauncey came into camp this year lighter, stronger, and faster than he’s been in a while. It’s not out of the question that he would be playing like this in Detroit had he not been rejuvenated by being home. I think he realized just as much as we that the last couple post seasons he has been a little slow. Maybe some of his frustrations with being traded is that he never got to show off his off-season work before being dealt.

I like Biedrins, and I would like him even more if he put on fifty pounds.

Speaking of putting on weight, why hasn’t Arnie Kander put Amir on an all-creatine diet, or just sent him to Steak ‘n’ Shake eight times a day?

Its hard to know what is and isn’t the truth in that article. I enjoyed reading. Alot actually. But I’ll say this: if its true Joe D didn’t have a sit-down, man-to-man talk with CB after the trade, then he is classless. Plain and simple. Now I know there are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. But I’m just sayin’ that IF that is true that is reprehensible behavior.

I hope for Joe’s sake it ain’t so. But somehow my gut tells me it just might be.

Sure its a business, blah, blah, blah. But even business can be run with dignity, class, and human-ness.

Just venting.

I miss CB. It killed me when CB said told his wife in the article, “Get traded? No way we’re going to win a championship this year.” That shows he wanted to retire here. He should’ve. I hope the Nugs win it all this year. For CB’s sake. Plus it’d be the comeback story of the decade for The Birdman…

Go Nuggets.

It is weird that you never saw the whole backstory article about Chauncey when he won the friggin’ MVP. Now that he’s in another market he can do no wrong? He made himself into an elite NBA point guard, a class guy. Detroit absolutely squandered his leadership and ability when they traded him for the expiring contract. I just hope that he can forgive the organization so that one day, when they retire his number, he’ll feel good to be back in the Palace.

I also hope that whatever plan Joe D. has for revitalizing the Pistons is a beauty, because it’ll be built on the smoldering ruins of what at the moment appears to be a terrible trade. I don’t think the Stones would have won a championship this year, but it would have been a hell of a lot easier season to watch.

Tom Friend is a great, celebrated writer, but I wonder how much of that article was written for the benefit of the audience. I also suspect we will never know a great deal of the backstory, if at all. I love Ben’s “that’s how they are”-because Dumars wouldn’t match $16M?

The reality is that the trade revitalized Chauncey in a way which might not have happened here. There were a number of factors which led to the trade. Dumars will always put the correct spin on it, but he knew when he made the deal it was for AI’s expiring contract and if AI came along with it, is was a bonus.

The final thought is that I wonder how much input Tom Wilson might have over personnel decisions. Remember, it was Rick Carlisle’s personal beef with Wilson that got him fired, nothing more. It may not be as far fetched as it sounds.

You’re not going to know for maybe two years if this deal was a good one for the Pistons. But I have no doubt in my mind they’re going to retire #1.

Caveat: I love Billups. I loved watching him play as a Piston and I love watching him play as a Nugget.

With that out of the way: look, this is a puff-piece. It’s great to see, and it’s great to read so much about Billups’ background, and it’s great to read how those who didn’t believe in him had to watch him succeed through hard work and reinvention.

But that’s how a puffpiece works; it doesn’t matter who it’s about. Give us the background (a little bit of hardship, a few vignettes that point up where the work ethic (or other focus) comes from); move into the struggles (no one believes; some self-doubt; work continues); if possible, introduce a couple of villains; major success). Underplay anything that doesn’t fit the scheme. Overplay everything that does. When it’s done well (and this one is a classic), you come away loving the protagonist and wondering how the hell anyone else couldn’t have seen his greatness. (Esquire is really, really good at pieces like this; I think it even did one on Sheed back in 2001 or so). We could all have such pieces written about us.

Anyway, for whatever reason, the writer decided to make Detroit’s management one of the villains. In part, it works because it fits the structure of the article perfectly (one more villain, one more team that couldn’t see the true value of CB, before the 08-09 payoff). But that’s it. Sure, if Dumars snubbed CB as badly as the article portrays it, that shows a certain lack of humanity, but here’s what the article leaves out (and, arguably, has to leave out in order to work) or leaves undeveloped:

• How easily teams that figured out how to run a hard backcourt trap could shut Chauncey down (and, thus, by extension, the team).
• How much differently the CB of 07-08 played in comparison to the current Chauncey.
• How JD went out of his way to get Billups back to Denver when it became obvious that the highest quality trade he was going to get (value-wise, so keeping in mind the length and price of CB’s new contract) was with Billups. Not Prince. Not Hamilton. Not Sheed.
• Why JD fired Larry Brown, despite Brown’s success with the team.

It’ll be interesting to see how CB handles it if a team (Lakers, Rockets, or Cavs, say) decides to start trapping him heavily. Maybe he’s just faster / healthier / lighter enough that he’ll be able to evade more of them than he could in the last two years with us. Maybe not.

Like many others, I found the season painful to watch. Sure, I would rather have watched another 55-win season, watched some more absolutely beautiful team basketball. But I also don’t want to endure another long long long stretch of teal-era rebuilding. And I think, truly think, this deal helps the team evade that. I’m excited about the offseason.

(Last thought: Think how a puffpiece (especially if he scores big this offseason or next) on Dumars could downplay the Darko draft: everyone wanted him; it turned into Stuckey; etc)

The most surprising thing I found in this article? Denver didn’t have a play for inbounding under the basket! Doesn’t that seem crazy to you guys?

Well, it’s still depressing even now.

It’s also very ironic that this bothers me. I mean, if the newspaper ran a story on the last 8 months of my life, no one on my beloved Pistons would give a rip. It’s weird how we invest ourselves so deeply into people we don’t know and who don’t care to know us, isn’t it?

A lot of good points have already been made in this thread – especially Drew’s observation that if Chauncey had played this hard in the playoffs the past three years, the team wouldn’t have been blown up.

The excerpt mentioned actually makes our guys, especially Ben, sound immature, ungrateful, and entitled to me. Ben has 60 million reasons to be eternally grateful to Joe D. Not a lot of guys would give an undersized center with no offensive game whatsoever who is the worst free throw shooter in the history of the NBA the chance that Joe gave him. That’s the case for all of our guys. Joe saw something in them and gave them a chance. Whether they’re mad at him for this, that’s fine. But they owe him some gratefulness for having given them each the chance to revitalize their careers.

That said, I really wish Joe would have done two things differently with the situation. I wish he wouldn’t have given AI #1 and that he would have at least waited for the ink to dry on Rip’s contract before making the trade. Those two things might have gone a long way to ease some of the bad feelings the guys had.

I was thinking about this article last night and I think PDXPistonsFan mentioned what I was thinking: this article should have been run in 2004. It would have had an AMAZING storybook ending that he won an NBA championship and the MVP. Instead that’s given a brief one sentence summary in the form of, “After the Pistons clinch in five games and Chauncey is named Finals MVP…” That should have been the culmination of his hard work and dedication in ’04 but instead they go on to make Detroit the bad guys. sigh

MY apologies to the writer, but I don’t intend on reading it. Just a few thoughts:

1. If CB was blowing chunks this post season and to an extent reg season, this article never sees the light of day.

2. Fact is, Denver is a more atheletic team than the pistons. Melo, JR, K-Mart, Birdman and Nene individually and as a team are more athletic than the pistons. It makes your job as a PG much, much easier.

3. I think just as much as DB, Nene has also played a big role. He’s stepped right in for Camby and with the Birdman, they have some very athletic bigs that Det doesn’t have on a consistent basis. He is an actual low post option.

4. Karl vs. Curry. ’Nuff said.

5. If you look at the WC, there has been some injuries (Williams, T-Mac, ginobli, etc.) that I don’t think the West is as strong as it has been. Maybe the top 1-3 teams, but not the consistent 1-10. The pendulum has swung a tad towards the east I think. Not to take anything away from LA or Den, but last year CB couldn’t keep up with Rondo, the year before he repeatedly got lost against Boobie and so I commend him on coming to camp thinner, quicker, whatever people are calling it. But, as Finals MVP, he should have been doing this year-after-year IMHO.

Kudos to CB and good luck to him now that the Pistons are out. But, let’s see how the angst of being traded, but to your home town plays out not this year, but next year and the year after. As I’ve said before, the effects of this trade should be analyzed from a window of 2-4 years not 8 months.

denver is more dynamic offensively than the pistons. so chauncey looks better offensively. melo is way more dominant than rip. and jr is super dangerous. so chauncey is more open and has more openings.
defensively, when was the last time detroit gave up 117 points?

last night’s game was a bummer. refs gave dirk three trips to the line to seal it and tnt didn’t do replays. but one call on kmart seemed ridiculous and one on nene gave dallas the ball after a rebound. so i guess the league wanted to give one to dallas as payback for game three.

by the way about game three and the refs. when you go to the hole with the game on the line and get mugged and there is no call, that sucks and deserves protest. when you get called for a phantom foul and lose by one at the free throw line, that deserves protest. but when a guy sinks a three at the buzzer to beat you, you got beat, and you should just deal with it.

the call on nene negated an offensive board and sent dirk to the line. there was no foul. maybe one on dirk. the one where kmart was called against dirk, i saw nothing, i mean nothing. am i crazy? help me out.

@andy- you’re not crazy, my roommate and I couldn’t believe the ref made that call (the one that gave Kmart his 6th foul). One of the worst end of game foul calls I’ve ever seen.

Right now Denver should win it all and rightfully so deserving. Not only for CB but it’s a long time coming for Melo and for Denver. LeBrone is going to be a bigger duesh bag than he already is if he wins the Championship. I hope CB, Melo and the whole Nuggets team clean out the Mavs on Wednesday night giving them a bigger beat down than that game 4 with the Hornets by beating them more than 50 points.

Denver only loss by 2 points and that without the Birdman. I knew Denver is going to lose this game because at the top of the show they said Birdman is out tonight. I had hope that they would win it. But man on Wednesday’s night Denver is going to coming playing with a vengeance you’ll see. Melo is still kicking himself for not closing the deal and I’m sure Billups is going to give the team an earful and George Carl is to stand for it.

The one thing about the article that really frosts my balls? Big Ben calling out management saying "I told you how they are."

Now, maybe the green ink from the millions of dollars he stole from Chicago and is stealing from Cleveland is soaking into his bloodstream ruining his memory, but as far as I can recall the Pistons didn’t trade Ben Wallace, they offered a 4 year/$52 million contract to an aging, over-the-hill player with diminishing skill who everyone could see was playing disinterested in his last year with the Pistons. This is the same guy with one of the top-10 worst, team-killing contracts in the league? He’s bitter because D wouldn’t blow up their salary cap to employ him as a 7th man for $15 million a year? What the f*ck is that guy talking about?

+1 rjsplow.

That contract is a killer. Perhaps he thought he should be paid for past performance, but you’re right, 15M/yr for a 7th man? Just imagine had Joe D bit on that one.

Glad to see the way the sentiment is leaning on this thread. I totally understand those who have a bad taste in their mouth from the way everything went down – as a fan, you’ve got to appreciate the guys who brought you a chance to see the team you cheer for win a title and it always sucks to see a guy you love go while he’s still got some game left. But the trade is done, we weren’t winning jack this year or next if we hadn’t blown it up, now we’ve got a chance to restore our roster this summer, and hopefully we’ll be back to Deeeetroit Baskeeetbaall come fall.

getting rid of ben…great move. failing to replace him for three years…not so great.

i always believe in today. winning today. history is full of trashed five year plans.

In defense of Big Ben:

He was talking to a friend who had just been traded, apparently against his wishes, and he was trying to be supportive. Maybe it’s like when your friend gets dumped, and you say, “hey, we always thought your ex was a jerk” — you might say that even if you really don’t mean it.

I was surprised that Chauncey took it so hard. I had heard rumors that he wanted to go back to Denver.

It must be weird to have a job in which you can be one of the very brest in the world at what you do, and still you can be involuntarily traded to some other, competing business, with no control over it yourself and no chance to take any of your favorite co-workers with you.

Finally, I’ve had the same thought that brgulker had: here I am, upset about how Chauncey and Rip felt, when they don’t know or care about me. But that’s not their fault — they are in a line of work which puts them in the public eye. They also get yelled at on the job, in public, and criticized in the media and on blogs (sometimes by me).

Sports is funny in that it can be incredibly entertaining, but usually only if you can convince yourself that you care who wins. One way to care is to invest yourself emotionally in the players on your team — convince yourself that those guys are “good guys,” and at least some players on main rivals are not-so-good guys.

One of the very BEST in the world, not “brest.”

That Ben Wallace quote is the kind of thing that makes me question the truth in this article. Because it honestly makes NO SENSE that he would say that. Chauncey and Rip and Tay would all be like, “what?” I mean, Dumars practically made Ben Wallace. And Wallace walked away from it for money, which given how his body deteriorated, was probably a good idea. But it does make a lot of sense if you don’t really know the situation, and assume that Dumars forced him out, i.e. a casual reader or a writer taking too many liberties.

And anyway, which of the players would have given the exact wording of something incendiary that Ben said, when everyone was still talking nice in the aftermath of the trade? No one. That guy just assumed that Ben must’ve said something along those lines if he were talking to Billups.

The one thing about the article that really frosts my balls? Big Ben calling out management saying "I told you how they are."

Yeah, but it’s not just Big Ben either. Athletes are so consumed by greed across all of our sports. In one season, they make more than 95% of the US population will make in a lifetime.

I think Ben got it backwards. He should have been saying that about himself and his own greed. Disgusting.

getting rid of ben…great move. failing to replace him for three years…not so great.

It ain’t that easy to do…

I think Ben’s line, if true, was probably meant more generally towards GMs and management alike. There’s always a “they/them” in business, whether it’s your boss, “corporate” in NY or the auditor at the state franchise tax board. They’re all “them” when speaking to fellow workers or business associates.

Drew, I was sort of thinking the same thing. The other part that made me scratch my head was about Rip saying he wouldn’t have reupped in Detroit and wanted to be traded – maybe he really did react that way, but who would have sold Rip out on the record as having actually said it? Chauncey, Rip, Tay, Ben – they all know better than that. After all Rip went through this season and how hard he still played, I don’t think he’s pushing to be traded this summer – he sure looks like he still wants to be a Piston. So why would one of the guys potentially mess up Rip’s situation in Detroit?

MBinSoCa: The line from Ben is true if we can take CB’s word for it. He gave that line in an in-person interview just a couple weeks after the trade. He also talked about how Ben “chose to leave” and how that’s different from what CB was going through, because CB wanted to stay.

Ben’s reaction is entirely understandable. Suppose you used to work for ACME. You did well there, but decided to leave for another job a few years ago. Your best buddy stayed at ACME. Now ACME has made a decision about your buddy’s employment that makes your buddy very unhappy (and indeed, it seems to have been handled in a bad way to boot). What are you going to say? “Well, gee, ACME was always good to me, sorry about you.” Or something more like what Ben said?

He was being supportive to a friend. Plus, I agree with the idea that he may well have been referring to team owners as a class as much as the Pistons in particular. Again, it’s a weird job where you can be one of the best in the world at what you do and still you can be sent packing, with no input, to another organization.

Chauncey was silent against Cavs and Daniel Gibson!

Oh yeah he was silent against the Boston Celtics last season too!11

The obvious difference, TJ, is that I don’t know of any ACME workers who sign 5-year contracts that are worth 50+ million dollars. The bitching is more understandable when it comes from factory workers who struggle to make ends meat. We’re talking about people whose children and grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives if they manage their money right.

I know that doesn’t take away human emotion, and I don’t mean to minimize that real emotion – but seriously, you get paid millions to play a game. That oughta give you some perspective. (And for the record, it seems like guys such as CB do get that and are grateful and give back).

brgulker:

I’m not asking anyone to throw a pity party for Ben Wallace, I’m just saying he was trying to support a friend, and in that context, not giving a balanced reply about how well he Ben Wallace was treated seems entirely understandable and normal.

Beyond that, another difference between my hypothetical ACME worker and a star NBA player is that the ACME guy isn’t one of the very best workers at his job in the whole world and partly responsible for bringing in revenue that at least mostly supports his very high salary. We expect sports stars to be “grateful” for their salaries, ridiculously high as they are, in a way we don’t expect other folks who make ridiculously high salaries for producing products people want to buy, or for whatever it is that folks like Donald Trump do.

But beyond that, I don’t think we can judge Ben’s perspective — or lack of it — from this quote in this situation.

But beyond that, I don’t think we can judge Ben’s perspective — or lack of it — from this quote in this situation.

Agree to disagree :)

“in a way we don’t expect other folks who make ridiculously high salaries for producing products people want to buy, or for whatever it is that folks like Donald Trump do.”

Therein lies the rub. I can stay at Trump’s Taj Mahal or another hotel, whether it’s Holiday Inn, Sleep 6 or Betty’s Bed-n-Breakfast. To support the local team, basically the only way is thru ticket sales. Given the locality, you really don’t have an option to support team X or team y. Jersey sales, TV revenue, etc are put into a pot and doled out based on various mathematical formulas. I have product availability from a wide range of sources, professional sports not so much.

Working with a group of folks, whether it’s coming in on budget, over budget, new product line or some other endeavor is always hard to leave. Particularly as part of a team and the heights the Pistons reached. I think Ben’s remark is one of being pissed off as being viewed as underappreciated.

If the Bulls were going to give him 55M/5yrs (I don’t recall exactly) then Ben feels that is what the “public” or “customer” in this instance has valued his “product” at. Nevermind no one else even approached that amount in the bidding of his services. He is using a sample size of one with no other bidders to put a price on his services and expects his current employer to meet it. Since Det didn’t bite, he feels as though they never valued his services correctly (i.e., at most recent market value) and so he’s pissed.

We’ve all looked at classifieds and found jobs that we said to ourselves, “Hell, I do that and aren’t anywhere near paid that much.” It’s human nature.

brgulker: Fair enough. Now, about solving that problem in the Middle East. . . .

MarkButterinSoCal: Right. And I’ll tell you, if one other employer in my business offered $10 million (over 4-5 years) more than my current employer, or even any other employer, I would probably think I was worth that too.

Trade Amir Now!

Haha! Boney FTW.

TJ:

Let me add this to what I’ve said already, in hopes of articulating the point I’m trying to make (but didn’t do well after rereading what I posted):

First, let me say that it’s neat to see a guy like CB get an article like this written about him. He’s a great guy who has given a great deal to the Detroit community, and I have a lot of deep respect for that.

Second, it seems to me that Matt’s tone in the original post was that he feels sorry for CB (and maybe we should too), because the trade just wasn’t fair. It split up the three amigos, guys who had been battle-tested together for years and deserved to be kept together.

I don’t agree, specifically because I would argue that both Rip and CB negotiated contracts that made it impossible for them to stay together. Let me explain.

Yeah, it must have stunk for those three good friends. I get that raw emotion, and I can sympathize. But frankly, it’s as much their own doing as anyone else’s.

If staying together as a team was a priority, and if winning as a team was a priority, then the players should have been able to perceive at least a couple things.

First, in order for the team to stay competitive, it needed to add new players. That much has been obvious.

Second, CB and Rip both needed to re-sign with Detroit. They both did so.

The rub is that in order for both #1 and #2 to happen, the current players would have needed to negotiate contracts that would have given the team flexibility. In other words, they would have been forced to take a pay cut.

It seems to me that if we are supposed to feel sorry for CB, Rip, Tay, and Ben, then we would need some kind of indication that staying together as a team was a priority for them. And the best place to look for that indication is their contracts — did they sign contracts that would lead us to believe that keeping the team together was a priority for them? Nope.

If keeping the team together mattered, they could have all gone to Joe D with their agents and said, “Look, we’ve got something special here, and we want to keep it going. But, we know this is a business and to stay competitive, you need the money to go get some new players to add to the mix.”

None of them did that to my knowledge. And frankly, the only difference between Ben and the guys who re-signed is that Joe D was willing to pay the latter guys what they asked for.

Anyway, this is a really long way of me saying that we shouldn’t be feeling sorry for these guys. If keeping the team together was a priority for them, they could have done something to make that happen. They could have taken pay cuts to stay together and please the fans. But they didn’t. They negotiated their contracts in order to get as much money as they could. All of them. Ben, Rip, Tay.

For all of them, the size of their contract was the first priority, not staying together — so why should I feel bad that they didn’t stay together?

Do I blame them? I don’t know. I’ve never been in a situation where I’ve had to negotiate a contract yet… but I’d like to think that when I do, money won’t be the ultimate factor in the decision. But regardless, enough with the pity party. The Bad Boys 2 era is over. That sucks. But we don’t need to mourn on their behalf because their friendships were affected, because they’re just as responsible as anyone that it all happened.

I agree with all the comments here…We do not how much chauncey’s injury last year affected his performance last year…but he was also taken out easily by cleveland the previous year… the reason chauncey succeeded in such a big way this year is because of his new enthusiasm (back home and trying to prove his detractors wrong..much like the way he played in 2003 and 2004…)..also Carmelo anthony commands double teams and J. R smith also breaks the offense down and both of them get some good looks for chauncey….

I hate to type the following lines.. I feel chauncey’s being given too much credit for denver’s renaissance by the media..i can even accept his leadership role in the locker room but the media praises his defense..he never was a great defender in detroit and is still not a great defender…even in this series against Dallas..Jason kidd backed him down consistently in the post and scored\asisted easily…

all this being said…good luck for Chauncey and lets see how he performs in West Finals…remember his performance in the conference finals was the reason he got traded…

Brgulker:

I agree completely. + 1000. Only caveat I would add is with regards to Joe D and the rest of the staff supposedly shunning/ignoring Chauncey. That’s not acceptable. If it took place as written, I would lose some respect for Joe D.

brgulker:

I see your point although I don’t get what it has to do with solving the problem in the Middle East.

Seriously, while all you say is fair, I would have to know more about what Rip, Tay, and Chauncey knew or reasonably-should-have-known about what their contracts, individually and collectively, could have done to the team. Hell, I still think that Detroit could have been competitive for a ’ship this year, or at least seemed like it until we saw how good the Cavs would be, without huge adjustments. Assume Amir and Maxiell will continue to improve, get a really good backup SF . . . that could have been done without paycuts, right?

So I’m not so sure that the players are “just as responsible as anyone else.” If Joe D. felt that he needed big salary cap room, he wasn’t going to get that with a few players taking a reasonable cut.

Second, let’s assume all you say is true. I agree that there are people out there who deserve more pity than Rip, Chauncey, and Tay, but it is still sad to leave coworkers with whom you are close, even if there are “business reasons” the players make for it.

Also, I still think it must be weird to be in a business where you can be at the very top of your professional, and still be moved across the country against your will and without even getting any notice.

Maybe I’m overly-sentimental. I recall feeling really badly for Adrian Dantley when he was traded despite really wanting to stay. Obviously, that worked out well for the Pistons (although I still think they would have won with A.D. as much as they did with Aguiree). But it’s possible to feel bad and to understand it’s all part of the business.

brgulker: I don’t think even going to Joe D would have helped. If they did, all of a sudden they lower their potential future earnings to play together but at the same time would have made them much more attractive to other teams because they were being paid below market/production value.

I don’t blame them for having an agent negotiate the best contract. That’s why agents exist, so it doesn’t become personnel between management and the player. I don’t blame AI for eating 20M of cap space preventing surrounding him with talent to get to the finals. However, at the same time I don’t think these guys can complain when they’re traded. Perhaps from a management perspective it may have been handled more delicately. But the bottom line is: If my boss says we are going to increase sales by 5%, the tools are available to make that happen and it doesn’t, I shouldn’t be surprised that changes are made. Joe D. said as much after 06, 07 & 08.

The change was made because we couldn’t get over the hump 3 years running with an eye towards the fact that we should have beaten the Heat & Cavs and played better against the Celts. Joe D realized that with Clev & Orl coming up in the next couple of years plus several teams out west, we couldn’t compete for a chip. If we could we would’ve been in the finals again. And obviously weighing on that is what gives us the most opportunity to do the most things in the near future. At the end of the day, you gotta think this was the best deal Joe D could get for what he wants to do. Same thing as Ben signing with Chicago. Each one was selfish. Big deal.

At the end of the day, you gotta think this was the best deal Joe D could get for what he wants to do. Same thing as Ben signing with Chicago. Each one was selfish. Big deal.

I say neither one is selfish. If you’re a manager (Joe) for McDonalds and you need to fire someone who doesn’t show up or do a good job, it’s not selfish for you to fire the guy. That’s your job. And from an employee’s perspective (Ben’s), if I’m not really happy at the place I’m working and there’s another company offering me more money, I’m not selfish for taking the other job.

Also, I still think it must be weird to be in a business where you can be at the very top of your professional, and still be moved across the country against your will and without even getting any notice.

This also isn’t that crazy. My brother got moved from Indianapolis to Denver for his job – and if he didn’t like it, he could be unemployed. Growing up, my family had to move twice times for my dad’s job.

TJ:

<i.Seriously, while all you say is fair, I would have to know more about what Rip, Tay, and Chauncey knew or reasonably-should-have-known about what their contracts, individually and collectively, could have done to the team. Hell, I still think that Detroit could have been competitive for a ’ship this year, or at least seemed like it until we saw how good the Cavs would be, without huge adjustments. Assume Amir and Maxiell will continue to improve, get a really good backup SF . . . that could have been done without paycuts, right?

Well, as long as they are all capable of some basic arithmetic, they could have added up their combined salaries and balanced that against the cap to get some indication of how their contracts would affect the team’s ability to be competitive in terms of signing other good players.

Should we have expected them to do that? No. And that’s my point. Their priority is not staying together as a team; it’s their pocketbook. So why feel sorry for them?

As to your latter point about remaining competitive:

Preseason, I would have agreed with you. I thought adding MCIAFI would work, and I thought Wally was the backup SF we needed. I also thought starting Amir made a lot of sense. But, what I didn’t realize is how much Sheed had declined — without him at his best, it didn’t matter anyway.

Only thing I would disagree about is whether or not we could have gotten a good SF without making some type of trade during last season.

Also, I still think it must be weird to be in a business where you can be at the very top of your professional, and still be moved across the country against your will and without even getting any notice.

It’s also one of the only business in which you can work for 10-12 years and retire for life on your earnings. It balances out, don’t you think?

MB:
brgulker: I don’t think even going to Joe D would have helped. If they did, all of a sudden they lower their potential future earnings to play together but at the same time would have made them much more attractive to other teams because they were being paid below market/production value.

I agree, but my point was that we don’t need to feel badly about the team being broken up, because they didn’t make any attempts to stay together — other than Rip and CB re-signing, albeit for pretty healthy contracts. Were they payed “fairly” according to market value? Sure.

I don’t blame them for having an agent negotiate the best contract. That’s why agents exist, so it doesn’t become personnel between management and the player … At the end of the day, you gotta think this was the best deal Joe D could get for what he wants to do. Same thing as Ben signing with Chicago. Each one was selfish. Big deal.

That’s my point. Look, I’m as emotionally invested in the ‘stons as anyone. I get that. I’m asking this of myself as much as anyone: why should I feel badly that a bunch of selfish guys (with respect to contracts) got broken up as a team? It’s not like they did anything to earn my sympathy. They didn’t make any financial sacrifices to keep the squad together. They were selfish. They reaped the consequences. Big deal.

In sum: These guys are all millionaires who will retire at the age of 35 and never have to work again. Yeah, the business side can have some negative consequences on friendships (and often their families).

But in the big picture, these are some of the most fortunate men in human history — they are set for life because they are good at a game. Those benefits enormously outweigh any of the ‘hardships’ they might face as a result of the business side of that game.

So, let’s get over it, move on, and cheer for the new overpaid athletes who will don the Pistons blue, red, and white next season.

Shinons:

I know that there are people, including executives, who get transferred from one city (or sometimes country) to another. So the professional athelete example isn’t unique in ever single way. But I still see some differences.

First, often, although not always, corporate types get some say in when, where, and even if they are transferred. Not always, but much more often than NBA players do. Second, no insult to your brother, but I keep stressing that folks like Chauncey are among the very best in the entire world at what they do. Outside of pro sports, how many people who are among the best in the whole world at what they do and who make tens of millions of dollars a year can be transferred at a moment’s notice to a different business in a different part of the country? Usually one of the perks of being an all-world level performer in a highly successful business is having a little more control over your live.

Obviously, these folks do get paid a lot. And yeah, this is all part of the deal when you get to the NBA. I’m not saykng that on the whole these guys have a bad life. But I still think it must be weird, and not in a good way, on a personal level.

@ Shinons: I meant selfish for not wanting to take less – either other players or less money.

@ brgulker: We’re on the same page. I don’t feel sorry for them. Now, had Joe D traded Dyess to Memphis for solely for cap room, yes I’d feel sorry for him. Hell, I feel sorry for him after this year for staying with the Pistons, going thru what he did and not saying anything publicly.

As for CB, I believe a Melo rumor was rampant last summer. You can’t convice me that CB thought what it’d be like being back home. Though, even before the trade I would have wanted to play with Melo before AI. Besides, these guys got 40 years (35-75) to hang out if that’s what they want to do, wherever they want and for as long as they want and given that they have summers off, all the more time to spend with the family. Though there are times I’m sure when you’d like to be there for the first little league game, Scouts, classroom awards, etc.

Toldeo Joe – Yeah, it’s certainly fair to say it must be weird. You’re definitely making a very fair, moderate point.

Anybody ever wonder how differently this season goes if we had gotten the trade for Carmelo that Joe originally wanted? Better yet, what if we had taken Carmelo like we were supposed to in 2003?

Watching this Denver team is like watching an alternate universe version of what should’ve been the “Great Pistons Dynasty.” Our team was front to back better than this Denver team, defensively unparalleled in NBA history— imagine Carmelo added to that formula? Tay comes off the bench (which I feel is his natural place). Ben stays. We win multiple championships. Stern gets the Carmelo vs. LeBron Central Division rivalry he always wanted— maybe the Pistons are the darlings of the league right now. Two, three, FIVE championships?

At least we can take solace in the fact that according to quantum physics, this outcome has already place and in some dimensional reality we are, in fact, the greatest dynasty the NBA has ever seen.

@ brgulker: We’re on the same page. I don’t feel sorry for them. Now, had Joe D traded Dyess to Memphis for solely for cap room, yes I’d feel sorry for him. Hell, I feel sorry for him after this year for staying with the Pistons, going thru what he did and not saying anything publicly

Yep, Dyess is one of the few guys in the league who has shown that loyalty to a team is more important than a big contract.

Too bad for him, he was loyal to a historically great team at the wrong time.

I think this is the only instance in sports I have seen where management is seen as the bad guy for making a trade… not a bad trade, just a trade. These guys were together for so long that they forgot that on any other team in the NBA, having 4 untouchable players for several seasons would never have happened. Especially if the team wasn’t a dynasty. Dumars babied them too much, in my opinion.

In all honesty, we truly did become the Atlanta Braves of the NBA. We blew through every regular season and then choked when it mattered. At least we got one championship, but we were handed the East basically 4 years straight and didn’t do shit.

I’m sure people in Atlanta were similarly pissed off when they got rid of Glavine and Maddox (which effectively ended their 14 or so straight division crowns), but at some point have to say, “If it ain’t happening, it ain’t happening.” And it wasn’t happening anymore. Where we sit now, we’ve got some young talent in the pipelines, a couple battle-tested vets with at least a few more quality years in the tank, a solid draft coming up (Dumars has historically done very well with mid-round picks), a shitload of cap space, and, because of the cap space, a ton of leverage in the free agent market. There are much worse places to be— San Antonio in a year or two comes to mind.

Joe Dumars is the most expendable one.

@sauce
I would say Sheed is.

@joel
Agreed.

Also, what if Chauncey’s health starts to decline? What if it’s next season? Suddenly Joe D looks like some sort of prophetic genius. Once the spilt milk goes in our favor, I guarantee nobody cries about it anymore.

Look at Kevin Garnett. His injuries this season absolutely REEK of old age. Same with Duncan. These people are on the decline and their teams are on the hook for fuckloads of money. I’m just waiting for Celtics fans to start calling for Ainge’s head after “the disastrous Kevin Garnett extension” cripples their team in the next two years.

The fact is Chauncey’s contract was the “worst” on the Pistons. Sheed was expiring. Tayshaun’s is a good bargain for what he brings. Rip is a year younger, making less money, and I think more suited to age gracefully and still be relevant longer (think Reggie Miller). The Nuggets will eventually be on the hook for something like $14 mil for a 36-year old Chauncey Billups. I’m glad that’s not hanging over our heads.

Watching Chauncey in Denver really does bring out the “what if we had drafted Carmelo?” question. I had always played it as “what if we had drafted Bosh?” because I always liked Bosh better as a player and because Detroit needed a big man the most back then (well, and now). But I’ve never seen Bosh and Chauncey play together like I’m seeing Chauncey and Melo play together. Yeah, it would have been quite a dynasty.

You can put 50 guys in a suit in the Pistons front office and give them Joe’s title. You can do it at any time, with no salary cap attached.

No, Joe Dumars is the most expendable one.

Right this ship, Joe. Or, leave.

Sauce, do you think they would have won it all this year if Joe didn’t trade Chauncey? And let’s say that he hired the best coach available too. Would they have won a title? And, if not, would it be enough for you to lose in the second or third round?

The Spurs got bounced in the first round by the Mavericks. FIRE RC BUFORD NOW!!!!

The Heat were a lottery team last year and got bounced by Atlanta. FIRE PAT RILEY NOW!!!

TRADE AMIR NOW!!!!!!!!:)!!!:(!!;)

Quick Darshan’s posts raise the $1,000,000 question/issue. On the one hand, maybe the Pistons underachieved by only winning one ’ship, maybe they were the Atlanta Braves of the NBA. On the other hand, from 2003-present, only one team has won more than one ’ship (the Spurs), and no other team besides the Spurs has even done as well as Detroit.

The more I miss Chauncey the more I loath Iverson. There is only one person I would like to donkey punch more on this planet. No, it’s not Joe D. I hope it didn’t go down like they said it did in the article without them even talking to Chauncey…. they don’t hand out sportsmanship awards to GM’s.

That said, We would not have taken it all this year had we kept the team intact. I just think it was Sheed who needed to go by trade or letting the contract run out. Use the money he frees up to go after a decent big. Many of the ones that have been bandied about would still have been available Gortat, Millsap or even Boozer with a sign and trade sending Amir. Tay would then need to be moved for someone who can muster fire and fight not to mention scoring come playoff time. Cruel reality…. for now we’ll all just have to be content watching the bizzaro Denver Pistons.

Does Chauncey winning a championship this year make Hamilton even more disgruntled next year if he is still a Piston?

QD, are you fine with this shit? Do you have faith in the future? I don’t.

Trade Amir, indeed.

I’m out of humor.

Where is Joe Dumars’s stigmata? I don’t see them!

*are

For that matter, if the Pistons do pull out of this, it’s still fair to question Joe Dumars, what with Darko Milicic, Billups for Iverson, and a wealth of other miscues.

I don’t like how Joe Dumars handled all of this, especially the last 3 seasons.

I want championships, not Fiverson packages.

What’s the plan? Same as before? If so, Joe’s doing a shitty job at it. New plan? What the hell is it? Has Joe been talking to Elgin Baylor a lot?

TJ, I think that hits on the key point that the folks saying “Dumars doesn’t get the value of chemistry” neglect to mention in their assessment. Right now, we have absolutely no clue what Dumars plan is. Maybe he’s going to go Michael Corleone on us and knock down five moves at once, just like that. Maybe he thinks one move will right the ship. But I don’t think there’s any way to argue that making an assessment on Joe’s plan right now, today, when we have no clue what it is, isn’t premature.

The only way this works out is if the Pistons are better than they were with Chauncey. The way he did it was pretty ripe for chance of failure.

I’m smelling a lot of hope on Stuckey … a ton of cap space to bring in a big guy, or at least Clippers-like savings, definitely room to move … but what comes here? Who wants to be 2nd best to LeBron? Who thinks they can stop him? Iverson is typical of ‘stars.’ They believe prayer’s the only way. What a winning attitude, AI.

That smell … it’s like passing by a big rig that hauls livestock. You smell that shit?

If Joe is Michael Corleone, Shinons, then more power to him. If he can orchestrate such a powerful return in the wake of Don Davidson and Consigliere Daly’s passing, then may all of Joe’s ‘children’ be masculine.

Put most simply, the next couple of years will be Joe D.‘s biggest test. He made some great moves to get the “core” together. After the championship (and getting Rasheed earlier that year), he didn’t do much, but he didn’t need to do much to keep Detroit really good. Of course they weren’t quite good/lucky enough to get another trophy, but still very good. So we could mostly forgive the Darko pick, and the inability to get a decent bench.

Last year, Detroit was most definitely NOT very good. And assuming ‘Sheed isn’t coming back, Detroit has huge gaps in the frontcourt to fill. It’s a tall order.

Langlois is once again excitedly discussing the nightmare scenario in which Dumars signs Boozer and Gordon and gives away Rip or Tay or both.

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons.html

I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again, because I’m still no closer to understanding it. Why would Dumars possibly want Boozer-Gordon? Their games and attitudes go against everything that made the Pistons a successful team in the last decade. Boozer’s teammates and Utah fans cannot wait to ship his ass out of town. The Utah media say that he steals rebounds from teammates to pad his stats. That’s not a good indicator of team commitment. Gordon, meanwhile, is a black hole on offense, just like Iverson, and not at all like any of our favorite Pistons. He was maybe the biggest reason the Bulls lost Game 7 against the Celtics. All he wants to do is shoot. Also, both of them are awful defenders.

Dumars used to be the kind of guy who saw past the stats when the stats were misleading. He used to have a keen grasp of team dynamics and chemistry, which are still so often overlooked by bad GMs who throw together fantasy teams filled with high-scoring selfish players who hate one another and then wonder why their teams stink “given all the firepower they have.” Or at least Dumars seemed to understand that stuff, once upon a time.

I’m praying that Langlois doesn’t have the inside track on Dumars’s thinking. Please, please, please.

then may all of Joe’s ‘children’ be masculine.

So you’re saying that a move to bring in Joakim Noah is out of the question?

All I’m saying is wait to see the plan before dumping on it. If he goes and decides this summer Nazr Mohammad is the missing piece, then I’ll be right there with you.

If we’re not about defense anymore, with Dumars as the captain of that “can’t beat ’em, join ’em,” ship, then count me the fuck out.

Sauce, the desperation “Fiverson plan” was the most painful thing I’ve seen in the last decade of Pistons-watching. The Pistons have never done that kind of crap – it’s anathema to the philosophy of the team and the city to promote the individual at the expense of the group (never mind that the Pistons’ front office rolled out that campaign with elaborate graphics on the TV and website the moment the Iverson trade was announced, in a way that really made it seem like they’d been preparing it for weeks). Did the Pistons do that one-player-only BS with Isiah? Did they even do it with Grant Hill? I don’t remember anything like the Fiverson plan in either of those cases.

The Pistons forgot a lot of important things about themselves this season.

Shinons, I’m that voice. I’m a doubting Thomas. I have a place in good times and bad. When I see something doesn’t make sense, or the chances are not decent, I speak on that. That’s part of me. You don’t have to be there with me … I refuse to believe Joe will pull out of this mess until I do. That’s where I think his chances are.

Can anyone rightfully say that Joe can do better than several ECFs and a championship?

Show me championships, Joe Dumars. Where are they? How do we get better than what we got?

I wasn’t happy with Billups’s disappearances in the recent playoffs, but I knew how important he was to moving the ball with success on offense. Our problem has been bigs that don’t do enough defensively and don’t contribute enough on offense. Rasheed’s been playing center, a role he’s absolutely unfit to play. Dice isn’t a great 5, and he’s also a decent 4 … more rebounding, less shooting range. Joe has 50 million 4s, and no 5s. He trades the point guard slash general for …. another guard, and cap space?!?

We better be fuckin’ getting LeBron James in 2010, Joe Dumars. That’s also what I’m saying. You want a jersey/merch cash cow? Where is that in the ’09 or ’10 draft? We knew about LeBron coming at least a year or two before he was eligible to draft … ESPN was covering his high school games.

Detroit sees through Fiverson bullshit, and they’ll see through a Food, Friends, and a Boozer package. They’d have seen through a King of the Hill package. Nobody here is gonna give a shit about a Stoudafiver package, a Marion Mondays package, a Name Your package … it’s gotta be done with wins, and championships, and team. We aren’t that stupid. This isn’t Oklahoma City.

Thomas, put your hands in my sides so that you may see…

If I put my hands on Joe D’s sides, I’d feel flab.

Higgins, amen about Gordon and Boozer. Bring the GSW lite show to detroit ack

Flabbius Christ, not from Argentina

Gortat getting love in the current broadcast. there will be other suitors.

Like I said before, I wonder about Tom Wilson’s involvement in all of this. “Fiverson” has more a Tom Wilson ring to it than a Joe Dumars one.

BH, not to worry, Langlois likely isn’t Boswell to Dumars. If anyone, it’s probably Drew Sharp. Langlois’ prose is basic generic PR flack saying as little as possible while writing. I don’t take him seriously, and neither should you.

Why can’t anyone give Dumars some credit? I believe he’s going to build the next generation the same way he built the first one.

Sauce, why not wait to start kvetching after, say July 15 or so. At least you’ll know who your new FAs are going to be. In the meantime, name me 5 GMs in the league who you think are better than Dumars. IMHO, only Burford and maybe Presti are in his class as a GM.

Does anyone know how much of the excess $ the Pistons can keep for 2010 if they don’t use it this year? I’ve seen a lot of speculation, but what exactly are the rules? Can he hold the funds over? If the overall cap goes down again, does that put us in a worse situation, etc? Anyone have a link breaking this down?

If the funds remain fungible for another years, the better play is to go for 2010, not just because of the FA pool, but because next year’s draft will be better as well. Any lottery spot next year beats 4-6 this year. I could do with a year of ignoring the Pistons if the pay-off is a lottery pick and a sweet FA signing. Yeah, it gets harder to attract free agents to a loser organization, but two bad years don’t a bad organization make.

I count 3 major players for the Pistons (Prince, Hamilton, Stuckey). 2 impact players and they are elite again. One year in the cellar to get two fish will do it. Joe D sees trends. The quickest rebuilding job I’ve seen was Celtics who went from cellar-dwellers to champs in 1 year. Pierce’s 06-7 nightmare paid off in two big time players. Joe D needs to get 2 not 1.

V, Joe D huffed and puffed in the summer of 2007, and 2008, and finally in November of ’08, way too late, he blows the house down?

I’ll do that now, when I feel like it, when the iron’s hot, and, you’re welcome.

Shinons, I’m that voice. I’m a doubting Thomas. I have a place in good times and bad. When I see something doesn’t make sense, or the chances are not decent, I speak on that. That’s part of me. You don’t have to be there with me … I refuse to believe Joe will pull out of this mess until I do. That’s where I think his chances are.

Can anyone rightfully say that Joe can do better than several ECFs and a championship?

Fair enough. You can doubt all you want. I wouldn’t say I’m a doubter or a believer, just that I see the potential there.

To answer your question as to whether Joe can do better than a handful of ECFs and a championship – I don’t think it’s about whether he can top a previous dynasty, I think it’s about getting another championship. Whether it’s 1 or 6, that’s the only point. And like I said before, I think there’s potential – a lot more potential than there was with the status quo + MCIAFI.

But I do have high expectations for Joe – he’d better not screw this up. I expect him to get back to team ball and defense, not to mention for MC to not be AFI.

Illinois Piston Lover, whatever cap space the Pistons don’t use will be there next year (probably a little more as the salary cap will probably go up). Also, Amir Johnson and Kwame Brown have expiring contracts (Totaling 8mil). Will Bynum and Walter Sharpe do too but Bynum will likely get a raise and extension which will cut into the cap space.

Oh, and the reason I think it’s not about saying “This lineup can top the previous one and get even more EFCs and titles” is because you wouldn’t have picked that previous squad of castoffs to start a dynasty. Takes a lot of luck to make a dynasty happen. That’s why I say aim for the title, hope for the dynasty.

I saw a lot more potential before Joe D traded Billups for Iverson.

Curry should have been canned … yesterday. It didn’t work, and I don’t care if he put him in a bad position.

Curry should have been canned … yesterday. It didn’t work, and I don’t care if he put him in a bad position.

Believe me, I’m totally for canning him. I’m usually pretty moderate when it comes to firing coaches, but there are too many other candidates out there more qualified, respected, experienced, and successful than him.

Suace, you like the Lakers too. What did you think when they traded Shaq for Odom, Butler (instead of Wade) and Brian Grant’s albatross of a contract? That’s way worse than the Billups/Iverson trade.

But, eventually Kupcake figured it/lucked out and they got back to the finals within five years (and he made at least 12 horrible decisions in that time).

I still want Kuppy Kaves gone, QD.

Actually, it wasn’t the Shaq trade that was all that crazy … it was Caron Butler and the other nonsensical moves, like bringing Kwame Brown to Staples and thinking he’d become that badass he should have been because he’s with … the Lakers.

It woulda been worse if Kobe left.

nonsensical moves = trying to sell people on Brown.

I don’t have much to add to this ,it’s ben a rough yr. for alot of reasons,I’m just gonna pull for the nuggets and Billups , and look forward to the 19th when the lottery draft order is set , that should start the ball rolling.hopefully will starting getting some answers on what way Joe’s gonna go soon.

@Sauce, Shinons:
I hate MCIAFI as much as the next guy, but I think keeping him on for another year is a wise financial decision. The likelihood of us eclipsing our win total from 2008-09 is rare at best, so keeping a failing coach on for another season (instead of eating the contract and paying more for a better coach) might be smart.

Should the right cards fall into our lap this summer, and we have a real chance at improving over last year, Dumars might pull the plug mid-season. Otherwise, it pays to keep around a cheap coach in the year of “reloading”, then bring on a stud in 2010 to run the next big show.

Just like the Iverson trade was possibly going to help us, like it didn’t stink from the minute it was done. Right.

It’s a stupid move for viability on the court. Curry isn’t even helping Stuckey develop, at least, not as much as he should be, if you plan on replacing Chauncey with him.

Riding out your mistake is a terrible business move, actually. It was as dumb as the Magic eating Grant Hill’s contract … they shoulda dumped him, kept paying on him, paying for him to stay away, out of sight, out of mind, had an extra roster spot, and messed around in courts about his ankle and getting medical exemption for the guy.

It’s fair enough that Joe canned Carlisle and Brown for reasons behind the scenes, and Saunders for what he couldn’t accomplish in the playoffs, but he keeps around a guy who shits himself in public, almost every time @ tipoff, and publicly does what those guys privately did, in terms of shitting the bed? Count me out of buying Pistons tickets, or fucking buying Pistons anything, as long as Barney Fife’s running the clipboard.

There’s no salary cap on coaches. It’s the choice you make right away. The minute they have caps on coaches, and that counts toward the overall cap, then yeah, keep the worthless coach who makes Flip Saunders look fucking fantastic.

@Sauce:
It’s a stupid move for viability on the court.

I’d agree with you— only if we knew what our roster will look like come November 1st. There are so many options, so many variables and so many outcomes that we could have a 50 win team in November— or a 30 win team. That variance should be the deciding factor on who runs this team in the fall. If lady luck rears her ugly ass, we could be sitting pretty by the Pre-season and if MCIAFI doesn’t have a winning record after 20 games, he’s out.

If we sign Carlos Boozer and Ben Gordon, I really dont’ give a shit who is coach. I’m okay with Boozer on the cheap, but if he AND Ben Gordon are Pistons next season I’ll start knifing people.

@Sauce:
There’s no salary cap on coaches.
In your defense, I wouldn’t be surprised if Davidson’s wife might be more open to that than Billy would have. I know Davidson was deadly strict on spending, and I think he would have forced Joe to deal with that failure instead of giving him more money to fix his fuckup.

Mike, on that we agree. If Boozer and Ben Gordon are Pistons next year, and we win our 20th game by April 1st, you, me, and Matt Watson will have a sleepover in the Palace parking lot, with a loaded Nerf shotgun.

I’d be higher on Curry if the kids did any kind of good under him, at all. DNPMICAFI, Stuckey’s D isn’t improving, and Curry was a defensive specialist … and on and on.

*DNPMCIAFI

damn letters

@Sauce:
Mike, on that we agree. If Boozer and Ben Gordon are Pistons next year, and we win our 20th game by April 1st, you, me, and Matt Watson will have a sleepover in the Palace parking lot, with a loaded Nerf shotgun.

Actually, maybe we should just do that anyway? I’ll bring the booze! :)

I’d rather go to Lafayette Coney Island. Pistons management will never let us camp in their lot, knowing our intent. Also, I hate driving to Auburn Hills.

I hope every player on the Anaheim Ducks dies. That is all.

Ranting aside, they are every bit as hateable as the Celtics. What a bunch of douchey mcdouchesters. We better get em in game 7.

…if he AND Ben Gordon are Pistons next season I’ll start knifing people

Way ahead of you, MP—I’ve been stabbing passersby for several weeks now. On a related topic, I am now accepting contributions to my legal defense fund.

I’m tired of these games ending @ 1 AM here. The NHL is shutting out their largest market by starting these games so fucking late.

Wings didn’t exactly do enough to get it done today. It’s a fact that their goalies are highly beatable … not enough effort on offense today, and you can’t ask for much more from Osgood.

@PS:
I am now accepting contributions to my legal defense fund.

Do you accept Iverson jerseys? I’ve got a few hundred boxes to donate :)

Do you accept Iverson jerseys?

Sadly, no. But maybe if I fire my lawyer and hire Petey…

@PS:
Sadly, no. But maybe if I fire my lawyer and hire Petey…

“Your honor, in spite of the Prosecution’s attempts to deform this defense, I shall hear no logical or emotional argument that does not end in “AI 4 LIFE, HALL OF FAMER 4 EVA”. Also, Matt Watson sux."

Should I hire Petey to defend me in my upcoming stabbing triad?

PROS:

1. Can pay him in Iverson jerseys.
2. His patented “deform the defense” strategy.
3. Can probably get me his buddy John Edwards as co-counsel.

CONS:

1. Would have to sit next to John Edwards and Petey.
2. Stupid Petey arguments would annoy the judge and jury.
3. Would have to request a change of venue to Philly or Charlotte.

Trial, not triad. Stupid Western harmony.

@PS:
In a shitty southern accent: “I demand that we make a stand to end poverty in America. Before we get started, I’m gonna go bang this slutty filmmaker while my wife is at her cancer treatment. Anyone got a rubber and some pomade?”

Stupid Western harmony.

@PS:
Stupid furniture music.

I’m gonna go bang this slutty filmmaker while my wife is at her cancer treatment AND COMPLETELY AWARE THAT I AM BANGING SAID SLUTTY FILMMAKER. Anyone got a rubber and some pomade? NEVER MIND, I’LL JUST USE SOME OF MY CAMPAIGN FUNDS.

Politicians suck, but this guy really sucks.

Politicians suck, but this guy really sucks.

No doubt. I’m a left-of-center progressive, and I’m offended that this douchebag is supposed to be remotely aligned with a handful of my perspectives. Then again, the idea of using campaign funds as contraception is kinda hot. “I’m gonna fill your coffers with this 527-free campaign contribution!”

jeff van gundy has the most obvious case of depression of any TV personality I have seen. Watch him at the intros to games, he’s got this dead look on his face, never smiles, is almost always negative, and frequently seems to dispute with his co-commentators for argument’s sake alone, but not in a fun way like charles barkley.

It’s too bad the Celtics are such douchebags, they play with a lot of heart.

…the idea of using campaign funds as contraception is kinda hot

I’m getting turned on just thinking about it.

Good lord, Orlando choked.

For those of you who watched the Orlando/Boston game, how did Gortat look? I’m no basketball mind, but it seemed to me that he played good defense on the pick and roll and seems to have good overall awareness. I’m not so sure about his hands, though.

Happy b-day Joe Louis

Hell of an Article – The kick in the guts part for me was Wallace’s
"I told you how they are." -

I would highly recommend listening to yesterday’s edition of “The BS Report,” Bill Simmons’ podcast on ESPN.com. His guest is Jeff Van Gundy and the conversation is fantastic. Van Gundy hits on every single point as far as what makes the NBA good, what makes it bad, how it’s supposed to be played, how it actually IS played— basically after listening to him speak candidly about basketball, which you don’t often get to hear guys do, I can’t think of a better coach for our franchise. He literally bleeds “Detroit Basketball.”

Just listen to it. I know some of you hate Simmons, but Van Gundy is on FIRE with point after point. I want him as our coach. If you listen it’s easy to see why.

“I told you how they are.”

As in, “I told you that if an extra $3mil a year is more important to you than winning, camaraderie, chemistry, maybe another championship, maybe another DPotY award, a legacy set in stone, not being an embarrassing sack of shit for your final years in the league, then you can forget about staying in Detroit, because those jackers only wanted to pay me $12mil a year for four years! I told you how they are. Ungrateful bastards.”

@ Bill H: "The Utah media say that he steals rebounds from teammates to pad his stats. "

I disagree. You don’t steal rebounds, you go get them. If he’s getting them the other guys aren’t getting them. Plus with Okur, AK47 and Korver, they aren’t exactly Maurice Lucas under the bucket. IF this were true, they’d have to say the same about Milsap as he averaged about the same amount of rebounds when boozer was hurt. I know this is the Utah media, but this is pure bullshit. Anyone who’s ever played knows you don’t “steal” rebounds.

As for Joe D’s plan: do you guys expect him to hold a presser and say “I’d like to get guy X for this amount of money, trade Player y & z for a sign and trade for Player A. Keep some money to resign this guy and then let Player’s D, E & F contracts expire and then got get Player H in 2010. And while I’m up here, I’d also like to give a shout out at my homies on the DBB. You guys make it all possible. Thanks for helping me put together OUR plan.” And while we’re at it, let’s let the Germans know where we’re landing at Normandy. Fuuuuuck

In the NBA, there is the PLAN which is usually couched in we’re giving ourselves 3 years to build around Player T. We’ve got some pieces but we’re always looking to improve. yada yada yada Typical GM bullshit. It comes down to owners, money, money and more money. Team A will pull the trigger on a deal if that’s what they want to do, regardless of some grand fucking plan they’ve been preaching for two years.

This trade CB/AI can not be evaluated until 12-24 months. Someone above noted that CB will be making ~15M/yr when he’s 36. CB has an outstanding season as basically the #2 option on the Nugs. He gotten eaten by Rondo last year, would’ve gotten eaten by Harris (NJ), Nelson (Orl) and Williams (Clev) this year just to name a couple off the top of my head. We all keep saying the team was greater than the individual parts. And I agree. This run ran as far as it could for as long as it could. We were not going any farther this year than the last 3 years and IMHO weren’t going any farther next year. I’ll take a 2 year hit to get back to having a legitimate chance at a chip. We didn’t have one this year unless we caught a few breaks and we wouldn’t have had one next year with everyone a year older, Orl, Phil & Mia coming on in addition to Clev & Bos this year who are much younger than us, inlc’g having R. Allen & PP.

In two years if we’re on this blog arguing who we should take in the lottery, hell yes, Joe D. fucked up. Until then, to put a grade on this trade and it’s short term results is fool hearty.

Having said that, I don’t want Boozer or Gordon, unless it’s one of the last options. These two guys aren’t going to make us a championship level team. Not without Dyess at best. I’d rather see 3-4 players who fit better, Kaman for example, who can get us back to where the sum is greater than the individual parts. Bos has shown me something without KG, but Clev gets drilled without Bron. To a large extent, the Lakers without Kobe get drilled also. Teams like that are who we are not. I’ll take a Bosh plus 2 hungry youngins + a vet to get us there. But unless Kobe or Bron (and yes, I’ve specifically excluded Wade) come available, we are alot farther away from “competing” than adding Boozer and Gordon.

And as noted above, I don’t blame these guys for being “selfish” in terms of the money they want. But it doesn’t mean we have to pay it.

To me, Gortat looked solid if unspectactular on both ends. It’s a bit tough to tell, because when Howard is out, Orlando shifts even more into their “let’s shoot threes even if we have open, closer shots” mode of offense.

@Toledo Joe

Yeah, it’s a little frustrating to watch, although I’m only watching to see what Gortat will do. Being the permanent 5th option every time he’s on the floor doesn’t really let you see what he’s capable of.

That seems to be Orlando’s biggest problem, no matter if it’s Howard OR Gortat— they just don’t get their bigs shots. Hell, Dwight played 37 minutes and pulled down 17 boards— and he only gets 10 fucking shots? No wonder they lost.

Back to the point— it’s been hard to get a good gauge on Gortat because of their unwillingness to pound the ball in the paint. When he’s gotten the ball Gortat finishes well around the rim. But we’re not even getting a good look at his rebounding abilities either because every shot is a long jumper, nobody crashes the boards, and he’s left on an island trying to somehow get a rebound over 3 or 4 Celtics every time.

Joel said what I was thinking about Gortat better and in more detail.

@ Joel: Dead on. I can’t figure out why they go basically scoreless for 5 minutes in the 4th, Howard doesn’t even sniff the ball and all they did was launch 3’s. And Tedo is their 1-on-1 take his guy off the dribble option? Christ, no wonder SVG looks like he’s about to have a heart attack. That’s lousy coaching right there. I don’t care if you burn all your timeouts, but you’ve got to keep calling one when Dwight has Davis on him, has 5" and is light years away in terms of quickness and he doesn’t even sniff the ball on 10 trips down the court.

And now Howard is demanding the ball. Can’t say I blame him, the Celtics don’t have enough warm bodies to play hack-a-Dwight and the Magic haven’t even tried to exploit this. The only defender who has any chance at stopping him is Perkins. Get him in foul trouble and Howard gets guarded by Davis, Scalabrine, or Moore. If I’m the Magic those are the match ups I want.

Last night I said to my wife, “there’s less than 5 minutes left, Orlando is up by 10 and has the ball, it would be an epic choke to lose now, but Orlando could, because their offense relies so much on outside jump shots.” It killed me too, because I really want Boston to lose.

Same here Toledo Joe. Seeing that pig-faced asshole Pierce do his victory fist pump makes me want to vomit.

If Orlando wins game 6, that means another 7-game series involving the Celtics. I can’t remember any team going to seven games in the first two rounds of the playoffs in consecutive years. I’m too lazy to look it up, but especially given that the first round was only 5 games not so long ago, I wonder if that would be the first time that’s ever happened.

A lot of people on here have soured on Boozer. Why? Because “he’s only about money” for spurning Cleveland for Utah? That wasn’t chump change – that was a 6 year, $70 million deal over a 6 year, $40 million offer. Maybe it’s that combined with opting out this year, talking about “financial security,” and whatnot that makes everyone think he’s just about money. I don’t know. Out of all the choices of potential 20-10 power forwards, he’d be toward the bottom for me, but it’s not like he’s Zach Randolph or something. He’s been a winner at every level he’s played, is very solid on the glass (you don’t get three offensive boards per game “stealing” them from teammates), is only 27, and he is efficient.

The only things I worry about with him is how seriously he takes the regular season. He’s been accused of coasting at times and has had some dubious injuries that kept him out for an awful long time. It’s a definite concern with this team’s off switch and MCIAFI at the helm that he could just pack it in, and that’s definitely something to consider before giving a guy a 6 year deal. Either way, he’s still an upgrade over Sheed. I think if we can get him at a reasonable price (or if he doesn’t opt out and we trade for him), he can be a piece we can win with. Not my ideal, but still.

Besides, we’ve got such a great track record with Carloses.

Will somebody else please listen to Van Gundy on the BS Report? I just want one of you to confirm what I thought I heard last night.

call me crazy, but dwight howard is a joke.

he is just a freak of nature. don´t even start with the shaq comparisons.

in 10 years, d12 will be coming of the bench for a contender 10 min a night to get that ring.

d12 – his physique = adonal foyle

“Besides, we’ve got such a great track record with Carloses.”

LOL. Remember “Los Dos”?

Howard can’t possibly live up to the “Superman” hype, but don’t sell the guy short. He’s the best rebounder/shot blocker we’ve seen since peak-era Big Ben and the kid’s only 23. He’s only going to get better on offense AND defense, and he is most definitely the best center in the game. He might not be the Moses Malone 2.0 that the NBA hype machine wishes he was, but he’s clearly the most dominant big in the game right now (admittedly, we’re at a historical low-point in the NBA as far as quality big men go).

Dwight:

Howard needs to face up more. Big Baby and Perkins are strong enough to ride him out away from the basket on his post moves. But Howard is still faster than them. He’ll force more double teams and he’s got to be ready to hit the open man.

Boozer:

He’s not my first choice, but I’m okay with Boozer as long as Dumars can get a good Center to put next to him (a shot blocker preferably).

This off-season makes you appreciate how good that 2004 team was. There are no Centers out there that are half as good as Ben was. He was an absolute beast on the boards, post up defense and shot blocking. And Sheed was a great defender back then too. Those two and Prince were a lethal combination.

I like the idea of Kaman (especially if the Clippers would take Amir in return). That would still leave room to sign Boozer. I would feel a lot better about Boozer if he were next to a Center like Kaman.

But, those two and their injury problems may have Kander working overtime. And the Pistons wouldn’t be the up tempo team Dumars is hoping for.

I so wish that Bosh was a FA in this coming year.

QD: I like Kaman also. He’s got some decent low post moves, rebounds well and is an adequate defender. I can see us having Rip as option 1 with Stuck as the #2 when it permits. From there, it’s up for grabs and Kaman as a #3 or #4 (providing we get someone else) isn’t all that bad.

Hopefully what Joe D means by up tempo is ala San Antonio where Parker & Ginobli push it up hard and if it’s not there wait for Duncan. I hope he doesnt’ see us as Suns East. However, teams do need to get easy baskets during the game, but a certain amount needs to come from the defense pressure/creating turnovers.

Maybe we could go after Boozer as a FA if he opts out and then see what the Hornets want for Chandler. We would get a good deal since they are looking to dump his salary (look at the deal they nearly did with OKC). That would give us a good combination of scoring and rebounding in the front court, though injuries are a concern. I’m also not sure what kind of package we would need to offer for Chandler or how much money Boozer is going to want. It’s worth a shot though.

@Joel:
I’m 21 minutes into that podcast now. Some interesting stuff thus far— although finally hearing Simmons’ voice does confirm what I’ve always known. Douchebag.

The fact that 1) Chandler fit OKC’s needs perfectly and 2) OKC was basically giving up nothing (players who would eventually be bought out anyway) to get him and yet they still voided the trade after looking closely at that foot of his tells me that he’s not a guy we want to have ANY money invested in, much less the $12mil he’d cost. There is clearly more going on with his injury situation than we know.

@Shinons:
A lot of people on here have soured on Boozer. Why?

I was as bullish as can be on Boozer just after the season ended. To some extent, I remain bullish only if we can sign him for $11 or less front-loaded, which will never happen. We’re not going to contend in this next season, and by 2010 he’ll be 30 with a history of injuries. By the time we’re truly ready to make a conference run again, he’ll be 31 and past his peak. IMO, there are better, cheaper, younger options to be had.

You know what else? I’m not keen on Bosh anymore either. Dude is going to expect a raise next year, likely over the $17 million player option he has with Toronto. So we’re gonna pay $18-$20 million for one piece? How very un-Detroit.

The issue: Since the trade deadline, Bosh couldn’t keep his team above .500 with players like Calderon (who is better than stuckey), Marion (who is better than prince), Bargnani (who finally showed why Colangelo is so big on him this season), etc, is he really cut out to be a franchise superstar?

I’m not certain Bosh can be considered a superstar. Dwyane Wade could single-handedly will a team of DBB commenters to the playoffs, if healthy. Lebron James could convince David Stern to forfeit all Cavs games and still give him the keys to the playoffs. Players like Kobe, Duncan, Dirk and others can carry lesser rosters to winning results. They are the few actually deserving of their monster salaries.

Bosh is likely to become a “co-superstar”, when teamed up with another star like Wade et. al, he can be truly great. On his own, for the paycheck he’ll expect come 2010, I can’t see him ever WILLING a team to success on his own. For that, I don’t want to pay him.

Give me that rumored David West trade. Give me David Lee. Paul Millsap. Giving a single player $20 million when he’s never been a proven winner— you have a better chance of hitting the lottery than you do the ECF. Just ask the Raptors.

A frugal spread of of contracts across a talented roster is Detroit Basketball. If we’re gonna bet on a star, it better be one who can carry a game on his shoulders and never look back.

@SadPanda:
Maybe we could go after Boozer as a FA if he opts out and then see what the Hornets want for Chandler.

Every time Tyson Chandler’s name is mentioned on DBB, a puppy dies of aids. A million no’s on Chandler.

Dwyane Wade could single-handedly will a team of DBB commenters to the playoffs, if healthy.

I want in on this. When I played in the NBA I never made it to the playoffs.

@ Joel: Agree. But I think OKC realized that even though they may bump up against the 8th seed next year, they’re not a top 5 team with Chandler and tying up that much cash for two years would be a problem. The injuries concern me too (remembering g. Hill’s ankle problems) but I think the deal was called off for more than meets the eye.

@MP: I agree. If Boozer wants more than 12.7 (I believe) he’s scheduled to get from the Jazz, I don’t want him either. The only bright side to his injuries the last 2-3 years is that he’s got less miles on his odometer.

As for Bosh, I agree. He doesn’t appear to have that worldly talent leadership nor the ability to put a team on his back. I don’t think he’d have a problem playing second fiddle to someone, if for no other reason than if things fall flat most of the angst wouldn’t be directed towards him. But if we could:

Kaman/Chandler 12 / 10
Bosh/West/Boozer 18 / 8
Rip 18 / 5
Stuck 12 / 6 dimes
Tay 10 / 6

We’ve got 70 points and almost 30 rebounds a nite from our starters with AA & MFWB off the bench for at a minimum of 10 points. Or if we could pry Camby and have a few less points with a couple of more rebounds & blocks, that might be a better fit. Depending of course that I think Tay (+ Max or Amir) maybe the odd man out via trade for one of those guys, we could certainly find someone to plug in at the 3 and give us at a minimum 6/5 each nite and play good defense. And I think with that team, we could possibly entice Dyess to stay and with MFWB, AA and Max or Amir off the bench we could certainly be an uptempo team, weapons at every position and be a good defensive team.

I’ve always loved Camby. Poor guy’s just never been on a decent team other than those Jeff Van Gundy Knicks squads of the late 90’s. I think that he could be a fantastic C, even at his age, if everybody else on the team is also committed to defense. That being said, if we’re going to grab a $10mil center from the Clips, it has to be Kaman.

“Stuckey 12 / 6 dimes”

Guy put up 13.5 and 5 this year. I see no reason to think that expecting 16 and 7 is that crazy. His steals should go up too.

QD – I’d prefer Camby over Kaman. He’s cheaper, shorter contract, less injury risk, more of what we need from the center position. Yeah, it’d be able to expect more than a year or two of productivity out of whoever we bring in, but I just think Camby would be a very good fit.

MP – I’m feeling you on the Bosh doubt. We’d have to be paying a premium to get him before free agency. If Toronto couldn’t win with that kind of lineup around him, how could we expect to if we have to part with Rip, Tay, or both? And giving him a max salary after purging our lineup is just going to create a KG in Minnesota in Detroit.

As far as the Boozer considerations go, I imagine most opinions are based around how much we’re paying him. So let’s take a hypothetical. In this economy and with so few bidders, I’d say an optimistic yet realistic call would be 6 years, $70 million. Let’s go with that number. Maybe he’ll get an Elton Brand contract (5 years, $80 mil) or maybe he’ll be stuck with even less than my figure as teams with money decide Marion or Odom are a better value. Either way, is that realistic enough of a number to hypothesize around? If that’s the case, do you pull the trigger?

Just came back to the Simmons podcast, here’s what the just discussed:

(i’m paraphrasing): “McGrady is sort of between a superstar and a star. He’ll never be able to single-handedly get his team out of the first round, unless he’s paired with an alpha dog.”

That’s precisely what I mean about Chris Bosh.

@MB:
Kaman/Chandler 12 / 10

Another puppy just died of AIDS.

I’ll take Kwame Brown or Marcin Gortat over either of those guys any day. We’ve had this discussion on here a few times, surprised we’re coming back to it. Is Kaman worth $12 million/yr? Is Chandler worth $12 million/yr?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=kamanch01&y1=2009&p2=brownkw01&y2=2009&p3=gortama01&y3=2009&p4=chandty01&y4=2009

Brown/Gortat can be had for less than $5 million/yr ($7 million less than either Chandler or Kaman) which would provide enough financial wiggle room to do something big at the 4 and the 3, our current problem areas.

Tell me, have either Chandler or Kaman been productive to the tune of $7 million costly cap dollars?

@shinons:
I’d say an optimistic yet realistic call would be 6 years, $70 million

He’d still be on the payroll at age 35… If he was a better defender, that’d be an easier pill to swallow. We’d be looking at Dyess production in a few seasons with a less heart and a bigger paycheck. Kind of a tough call. If we could do 5 years for $55 million, front-loaded, I think that’d be solid.

“Dwyane Wade could single-handedly will a team of DBB commenters to the playoffs, if healthy.”

I’m all in on this. I’ll play the role of undersized power forward (because that’s the most popular position to play in Detroit)

@ Joel: I agree. I’m just taking a conservative estimate, even for some of the others. I figure one of these guys has a hot nite and so others suffer, but I agree Stuck should be in the 15/6/4/2 area every nite.

@ Shinons: I think 70M/6yrs is a great place and if I’m Boozer, I sign right after shitting my pants at getting an offer like that. I think Odom and Marion come cheaper and shorter contract, in large part that they aren’t as prolific as Boozer creating points from posting up.

@ MP: I think the Camby/Kaman question has to be answered in conjunction with who we have at the 4. If it’s West, we need either Camby or Chandler. If it’s Boozer, Camby will do but I think Kaman has a better outside game and won’t clog the middle for Boozer/Stuck/MFWB. If it’s Bosh, we can use Camby more or perhaps Kaman. I think it all depends on what we do at the 4.

As for Brown/Gortat, Brown’s on the line for 4M, but we could possibly swing a trade incl’g Brown to Orl. But they are also looking for a rebounding 4 to take some pressure off Dwight. Has the production been bettr @ 7M more? No. But this will be a mix/match of pieces as none of these guys are “take the team” on your shoulders kind of FAs.

Mike Payne: Some funny lines about the “superstars” in this league (although Dirk has usually had a decent supporting cast). And you might be right that Bosh will be too expensive.

Having said that, Detroit doesn’t need to build a team around a super-duperstar. We have good guards and a good starting SF. We need a couple of quality bigs, including one who could score in the paint. Bosh wouldn’t have to be the 2009 version of D. Wade, he would basically have to be the 2004 version of Rasheed.

Ah MP, you’re making me feel old! His birthday is November 20, 1981 – so he’s currently 27. In six years, in the summer of 2015 he will be 33. I’m with you though that that extra year and that number is right on the fringe of where I’d want him too. That’s probably the max I’d be ok with.

Although, I’d prefer one that is back loaded or more evenly distributed, as it would free up more cap space in the present and expire around the same time we’d be looking to reload with Rip and Tay’s eventual replacements.

As far as Kaman goes, I’m not completely shut off to him. It’d certainly be nice to have a center who can put up 15 ppg for you in addition to the other stuff. That might be worth his money. But I’m a cheapskate – I’d rather give Gortat a shot and get our post points from the power forward position.

I’ll play the Primoz Brezec role— wear all sorts of goofy shit, talk all gangster and not achieve anything on the court.

This JVG interview is awesome. I’m back on the bandwagon.

“I’m all in on this. I’ll play the role of undersized power forward (because that’s the most popular position to play in Detroit)”

I’ll be coach. Obviously no matter how bad I am, Joe D ain’t getting rid of me and I’m on the hook for 5M for next two years. Yeah Baby !!

Gortat just seems to be the move that makes the most sense. He fills a need AND he’s be cheap. Who knows, maybe it turns out to be another “Chauncey for the mid-level” jackpot, where he ends up being a “15 and 10” guy for “6 and 3” type money. At the very worst, we have a two-headed center combo— even if they only put up 8 and 6 apiece, for their price it will be like getting 16 and 12 from a guy making $8mil a year, which is still an absolute value for that type of production.

*he’d be cheap…

Sounded like MCIAFI for a second there.

I’ll be Walter Herrmann—just be gotdam gorgeous.

MarkButter, I thought Forty’s girlfriend was going to coach?

If Boney’s going to take the most popular position, I’ll take the least: backup SF.

Hmm, if we want Gortat cheap, wouldn’t it be best, at the margins, to hope that Boston beats Orlando so that Gortat gets less prime-time exposure and Orlando feels more like making some moves? That would go against my burning desire to see Boston lose, though.

Also, if we’re assigning team roles, I’ll be the mediocre, streaky-at-best backup SF that seems so popular in Detroit (albeit without Herrmann’s gorgeous hair).

Like I said before, there’s no way you could NOT want Van Gundy to be our coach after listening to that podcast. The guy believes passionately that basketball should be played the way the Pistons have historically played it. It’s such a good fit it’s almost comical he never got a shot here after his Knicks days.

And don’t slag on the guy for not getting the Rockets out of the first round. He never had McGrady and Yao healthy at the same time, those teams weren’t nearly as deep as the current squad, and more importantly never had Artest (the real star of the current Rockets team). They played the right way— staunch tough defense and efficient offense. They’re just snakebit as an organization unfortunately.

Goddammit, Birdman (and maybe PS too), I was posting about wanting to be the backup SF at the same time you were.

Birman: Forgot about Forty. Well, I don’t want to be Kandar, all you guys are old and I’d be too busy.

I’ll be the backup 2 to Wade. I’m ridin’ pine, but I’ve got a great seat.

Come to think of it, since 2004, there has been room on the Pistons for a whole BUNCH of mediocre backup SFs, so several of us could play that role.

Since I can’t handle the ball and have no real offensive skills other than free throw shooting, I’ll be our Rodman. That way nobody will bitch about my extra-curricular activities as long as I get rebounds and annoy other teams’ superstars. Maybe kick the occasional cameraman in the dick?

@ Joel: Plus there’s the whole banging Carmen Electra angle. Wise choice.

And Madonna. Back when she was hot and putting out picture books about sex.

I’m willing to move out of the backup SF position so I can be the new Bill Laimbeer. I have no vertical leap, I can hit 1 out of 4 from downtown, and I’ve got no problem kicking somebody’s ass in the low post.

Chandler wouldn’t be my favorite guy to pair with Boozer, but Portland would be nuts to trade Pryzbilla with Oden’s injury history. I like Chandler’s game but not his salary. Damn, we need a center who can block shots and get rebounds. But as someone mentioned above the NBA seems to have a major shortage on those right now.

I’ll volunteer to be the DBB “hustle” player. You know, that way I can mask my total lack of skill by being an obnoxious bastard to other players.

@Shinons:
Ah MP, you’re making me feel old! His birthday is November 20, 1981 – so he’s currently 27. In six years, in the summer of 2015 he will be 33.

What the hell is wrong with my math? Good spot, man, good spot :) I’d take 6 years at $65 – $68.

@MB:
I think the Camby/Kaman question has to be answered in conjunction with who we have at the 4.

No doubt. If we end up pulling Millsap from Utah (not our best option, IMO), we won’t want a big body bruiser next to him, but someone who can stretch out to hit 20 footers +.

Otherwise, anyone else, whether it’s Boozer or West or Bosh, then we need a big body like Gortat, Brown, Przybilla or otherwise— someone affordable that can defend, defend, defend, and can block shots and rebound. All on the cheap.

In contrast, Chandler is an over-rated defender, has no offensive game, is a poor shot blocker. On top of this, he’s due a bagillion dollars over the next few seasons— and his trade to OKC was waived due to injury concerns. I can’t even figure out what the guy’s upside is.

@MP: I think OKC pulled that plug for other reasons, primarily money and not close to sniffing anything but at best a first round flame out.

Upside: 7’3" and with CP, West & Peja, and last year Jannaro, he’s the last option of O.

I’ve got dibs for the job of shooting guard pissed off not to be starting ahead of a player who’s better than me so sits out with a “sore back.” Oh, and also I’ll bitch to the media after every game, even if it’s a win. All I have to do is shoot 35-40 percent from the field?? I can do that!

What the hell is wrong with my math? Good spot, man, good spot :) I’d take 6 years at $65 – $68.

It was less of a “good spot” and more of a “goddamit, I’m only a year younger than Boozer – I am NOT going to be in my mid-30s in 6 years” sort of bit :) I kept adding it up, like “I’m still mid-20s, right? Still hip, right? Well no, maybe not hip, but not that old, right?”

@ Shinons: Good luck at the doctor’s and hope you’re feeling better for the playoffs.

Oops . . . who’s this? Why it’s MFWB !!

In 6 years, I’m AARP material !!

I turned 25 last Sunday. As one of my friends put it, that’s halfway to 30!

My SF game is (unfortunately) modeled on Michael Curry’s: too short to be a good bebounder, slow, can’t shoot, can’t dribble. Curry could at least hit his fritos though.

Um, I’m 49. But unlike you punks, I can actually remember rooting for the Bad Boys. Hell, I can remember rooting for the mediocre, pre-Bad Boys, Kelly Tripucka – era Pistons.

Toledo Joe: 46 last week. John Long, Terry Tyler, Dickie V & the Classy Chasis. Ah, those were the times. Almost to the point where they’d let you walk in the Silverdome just to fill seats.

I think Terry Mills was on those teams also.

MarkButter. Yeah, Long, Tyler (what a shot blocker) and the horrible Dickie V. era. The Classy Chasises (sp?) lasted at least into the Bad Boys era. Terry Mills was after that; he was part of the Grant Hill / Teal era, post-Bad Boys, pre-2004 ’ship group.

True fact: My wife was in a “Theory of Basketball” class at U-Michigan that Terry Mills also took. She recalls telling him that he should work more on his post game and less on his outside shooting if he wanted to go pro. That’s the same keen analysis she used in deciding to marry me.

I’m kind of glad I barely remember the Bad Boys. Some of you dudes are older than baseball!

@ PS: lol I keep telling my kids, add up all your ages and I’m still older, so stop bullshitting me. I invented bullshit.

Happy birthday Birdman and MBnSC

I just don’t want to be in my mid-30s till I earn it – or at least I had better have my master’s done by then…

Good luck at the doctor’s and hope you’re feeling better for the playoffs.

Oops . . . who’s this? Why it’s MFWB !!

Just so long as I’m playing at least 45 minutes a night immediately. I can’t imagine if I played less than 20…that’d be so hard on me…mentally sobs…I think I’d retire before going through that…

PS:

GET OFF OF MY LAWN!!!

Toledo Joe:

I can tell in the pickup games by the look in the eyes as he slowly dribbles up court:

La tee da
Loop de loop
Take the old dude
To the HOOP !!

I keep asking people to check the court before they leave because I lost a half step. Hell, at this point I’m posting a reward for it.

Thanks Shinons.

Mr. Mark and Mr. Joe – tell us again what it was like when you used to ride on horseback to Fort Wayne just to see the Pistons play!

Well, I don’t know if I’d call ’em horses.

They did pull the chariots but it wasn’t much of a game with all the delays of taking the ball out of the peach basket. God was I glad Toledo Joe suggested cutting out the bottom.

Thanks for the b-day wishes, Mr. Onions.

I am looking forward to getting older. I want to retire and sit in a rocking chair on my porch, shaking my cane at disrespectful punks and whippersnappers with their weird hairstyles and horrible music.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeelll, sonny, it’s all gone down hill since they changed the rules ’cause of George Mikan. Then they had to invent the shot clock ’cause all you young-uns had no patience. . . .

Toledo Joe: The good old days. When you could clothesline someone driving to the hoop and not get a flagrant. Hell, we used to raise our glasses in cheers. Now, you look at someone cross-eyed, they T you up, and make you sit a game.

Seriously, yeah, the game was much more physical back then. And it wasn’t just the Bad Boy Pistons. Those old Knicks-Heat games were bruuuuuuuutal.

Yeah. There’s a reason Jerry Sloan’s nose looks the way it does.

As the undersized power forward I feel as if I deserve a contract of either 4 years 11 million or 4 years 20 million with a team option.

I’m happy coming off the bench so long as Matt Watson makes a tshirt with my silhouette on it or a tshirt with a baby crawling on it and a reference to my eating habits!

“I don’t know, I think we shouldn’t play that Boney guy because of the look on his face on offense”

Signed,
YouKnowWho

Trade Boney Now

Ooh, my turn!

Boney Eats Babies

Boney: DNP-MCIAFI

@Sauce:
+ a bagillion

+ a bagillion to all of you. Hilarious.

I had forgotten, but the draft lottery is 6 days away. Based on strictly odds of ping pong balls, it would have the Clips picking 3rd – Chad Ford has them taking Thebett. Our chances at Camby/Kaman would improve. Of course, being a sensible pick for the clips, it won’t happen.

I was thinking about that too Mark, especially in regards to Memphis. If they draw the number one pick, Carlos Boozer’s other top suitor disappears and we’re pretty much bidding against ourselves.

Shinons: Good point about Memphis. I can’t think of a reason Boozer would go to memphis. . . well, maybe about 80M reasons, but for what? To have summer vacation start every year mid-april?

Also, we could see what number Indiana got (the best team in the East that didn’t make the playoffs), and play “let’s say Detroit had actually slipped to that spot, what number pick would we have?”

@Shinons, MarkButter:
This guy’s logic on the situation in Memphis is pretty well-formed:

While it’s possible that the Grizzlies may be interested in Carlos Boozer and/or Lamar Odom, I do not think that they will. I think they’ll view both players as too old, or not good enough to vault their young core into contender status.

That leaves Paul Millsap and David Lee. If they choose to sign one of these players, I do not think that they would also sign Varejao. So it’s one of the three players. Varejao will come the cheapest, Millsap is the player I rate as the best, and Lee’s price tag could be many different things — in other words, the Grizzlies could get a great deal on Lee or screwed, depending on how many teams come after him.

http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/2009/03/14/2009-cap-space-memphis/

He also mentions, in another article, that it is likely that OKC may opt for a younger big to build with as opposed to targeting Boozer or Odom.

Thanks again to QuickDarshan for introducing me to that site.

MP: I think that’s why OKC didn’t do the trade. Depending how the balls pong out, OKC would have a decent shot at Thebett. He’s Chandler minus 9M/yr.

Memphis has a hard time convincing people to play there, even with Gay/Mayo. They’d have to overpay since they’re on the proverbial 6th year of a 3 year plan.

It will be interesting to see the order because some teams may want to trade out of their slot for cap reasons. In fact, I would bet on it. And we’d all commit hari kari if Indy landed the top pick.

Thanks Shinons for the info.

Given that the cap space can carry over, I’m resigning myself (hoping actually) for for minimal action this summer and a lottery pick next year, preferably high. Joining a rested Rip/Stuckey/Prince and whoever else is left would be a high profile signing or two (think Joe Johnson/Paul Pierce and Boozer (?) who decides not to opt out) + a high pick + a fired MCAIFI + one or two of these second rounders becomes a legit energy guy or trade for a role player. It’s a huge upgrade and all manageable in one year. It would be a lot easier to bag two high profile free agent signings in 2010 because there will be more who need to settle.

BTW—Draft Express has Detroit drafting DeJuan Blair PF/C
20 years old; 6’7"; 265 lbs. Pittsburgh, Sophomore.
Draft Express is the same group that nailed the stuckey pick two months before anyone else even began talking about it.

Patty Mills FTW!

Brandon Bass plays BIG.

Congrats, Chauncey! Your streak of conference finals continues!

Chauncey Billups stats from tonight’s game:
28 points on 16 shots. 12 assists. 7 rebounds. 1 block. 2 turnovers. Damn.

Melo’s gonna get (deservedly) a lot of hype for his performance tonight, but if there’s any doubt who the man driving Denver’s success is, Chauncey’s play tonight has to have settled it. Billups scored 2 fewer points then ’Melo on 6 less shots, he out-rebounded ’Melo by 2, dished 9 more assists, and was +1 in the block column. Billups play so far this post-season has been amazing to watch.

This might be the craziest playoff stat I’ve ever seen:

So far, Billups post-season (not including tonight’s game) TS% is…
.709%

For a PG, that level of efficiency is basically criminal.

@Joel: I’ve mentioned JVG in the past, and listened to some of the podcast. Not a bad convo, but I can only take Simmons in small doses. I’m ok with him, but not his brother SVRJGIAFI, who could be looking for a new gig by this time next week. As a coach, he’s not in the elite of Phil/Pop/Sloan/LB, but he’s one of the more competent ones.

Remember, he called out David Stern on the officiating regarding Yao and got himself fined 100K over it. Of course, he was right, but I digress.

I’m not quite sure why he hasn’t been offered another gig, he was fine with the Knicks and Rockets, he was one piece short of a ring with both teams.

Just got done reading the posts about signing and trading, as well as Sauce’s growing frustration with Joe D.

So, I’m just going to put this out there:

As long as LBJ remains in the EC and plays the way he is playing now, does it really matter what Detroit does? In other words, are there any moves that Joe D can realistically make (barring some firesales that may be possible) that would elevate us to a team that could compete with this year’s Cavs?

Personally, I think LBJ stays in Cleveland, especially if they win it all or compete well and lose in the Finals this season. I don’t think that Cleveland will decline as long as LBJ stays around, because they will have the luxury of signing veteran FA’s who simply want to play for a chip — because a guy like LBJ makes you a contender every single year.

MBinSoCa said:

We all keep saying the team was greater than the individual parts. And I agree. This run ran as far as it could for as long as it could. We were not going any farther this year than the last 3 years and IMHO weren’t going any farther next year.

He’s right. There’s no way we beat Cleveland more than twice in a seven-game series with CB and our current roster. Plus, even if we’d kept CB, we’d still have the problem of gaping hole in the front court — Sheed is finished being an impact player, and Dice ain’t likely to come back — except we wouldn’t have any cap space to do anything about it.

Trading CB was tough for us, and yeah, it signaled the end of the era. But, the era was over before the trade was made; we just didn’t realize it, and Joe D did.

Next season will likely be painful. We’ll probably lose Rip and or Tay. That will sting just like losing CB did. Dice and Sheed are more likely to be gone as well. More sting. And we’re not likely to make any moves that will make us contenders in 09-11.

What we have to hope for is that we get lucky with one of the fire sales that are likely to happen (as detailed on nbaroundtable). If Joe signs the right guys and gets lucky with a fire sale trade, then maybe, maybe, maybe we can compete with Cleveland… but it’s a big maybe.

But, I don’t blame Joe D anymore. I blame the dang ping pong ball that gave Cleveland LBJ. It’s his time right now. If you believed in destiny, you’d almost have to admit that this season is the beginning of his. And unless something crazy happens, I don’t see that changing over the next two seasons.

I agree with much, but not all, of what brgulker says. I’ll start with my one area of disagreement. Maybe this year starts a multi-year LeBron/Cavs dominance of the league, running at least through 2011. But maybe not. We haven’t seen a “threepeat” in some time in the NBA — we haven’t even seen a repeat in a while. Heck, a different team has come out of the East in each of the last four years, and five of the last six years (Detroit being the only repeater there). Lots of things can happen: some key pieces can get old, get hurt at a key time (see G., K.), leave because of money or playing time issues. LeBron and the Cavs could maybe be the Jordan-era Bulls in the next few years, and I’m certainly picking them to win it all this year, but I’m not ready to assume they will be a dynasty just yet.

Beyond that, though, yeah, this could well be a down period for the Pistons. And like brgulker, I don’t think that’s all the fault of The Awful Trade. Even seeing how well Chauncey is playing with Denver, not only do I doubt Detroit would have gotten past the Cavs this year with him, I’m somewhat skeptical they would have gotten past the Celtics assuming, as Joe D. should have at the beginning of the year) that they had a healthy KG. As I’ve said all year, Detroit, to be competitive with either team, needed at least two of the KwaMirMax trio to really step up. Kwame played as well as could reasonably have been expected, but he hardly excelled: Maxiell and Amir were pretty big disappointments.

Now, with ’Sheed almost certainly going and Dyess at best a year older, Detroit has huge questions in the frontcourt (oh yeah, and that whole “get a consistently good backup SF” problem has gotten more urgent). These are big holes to fill; getting quality big men is harder than getting quality guards.

So, maybe Detroit gets a low-ish seed and doesn’t get past the first round or two of the playoffs for the next few years, whether or not the Cavs are a semi-invincible machine. It’s not the end of the world.

I agree with much, but not all, of what brgulker says. I’ll start with my one area of disagreement. Maybe this year starts a multi-year LeBron/Cavs dominance of the league, running at least through 2011. But maybe not.

I don’t know that Cle is going to dominate the league, necessarily. It’s possible I suppose. My point isn’t to say that Cleveland is going to three=peat. My point is to say that Detroit won’t be able to compete with Cleveland next season without getting lucky. Signing 1 or 2 FA’s doesn’t get us there. We have to stop thinking about this short-term. This was a long-term move, and by long-term I mean 2-3 seasons out, not next year.

Now, with ‘Sheed almost certainly going and Dyess at best a year older, Detroit has huge questions in the frontcourt (oh yeah, and that whole "get a consistently good backup SF" problem has gotten more urgent). These are big holes to fill; getting quality big men is harder than getting quality guards.

Even IF Sheed resigns (assuming Joe D and Sheed both want that), we have huge front court problems. Sheed is old, and he’s playing old. He’s not an impact player on a nightly basis anymore, even when healthy. At most, he’s a solid role player for 1-2 more seasons.

But that Sheed is not what this team needs. So, if we resign Sheed and Dice, we have exactly the same problem as if we don’t resign either of them, just at a different magnitude.

It’s time for wholesale change, and that ain’t gonna happen quickly.

I don’t think we disagree much at all, then. In order to compete with the Cavs next year, Detroit would have to get, at minimum, two quality starting bigs both of whom can play defense and at least one of whom can score in the paint. And maybe also a backup SF who can score consistently.

The chances of Detroit being able to do that in the next year or two are not great, because getting quality bigs is the hardest thing to do in the NBA. There is a glimmer of hope, given how much money Detroit has, and you never know about (i) ridiculous fire sales / rebuilding projects (how the Lakers got Gasol and the Celtics got KG) or (ii) when some cast-off project without great stats in the past turns will turn into a high-quality player (e.g., most of the 2004 championship squad). And there’s also the “something unexpectedly bad happens to the rival team” scenario (again, KG and Boston this year).

But you’re right, that would require Detroit getting pretty darn lucky. It’s not something we should count on, especially if Curry is our coach. Still, I rooted for Detroit in the PRE-Bad Boys era, and in the Teal era, so again, it won’t be the end of the world if they don’t make the ECF for the next couple of years.

@brgulker:

Great post! Watching the Cav’s play so far this post-season I’ve been thinking along similar lines- that Lebron is going to stay in Cleveland, and that it’s going to be very difficult to beat him in the playoffs the next few years.

I think the Pistons might be smart to focus on bringing in players who could attack the Cav’s few weaknesses- those pretty much being limited to 1) They lack size in their starting backcourt, 2) Their PF/C rotation depends on a couple older players.

IMO, we need another “power” guard, like Stuckey (Tyreke Evans would be perfect), to force the Cav’s into matching at least one of their smallish guards into a difficult match-up. Currently, we have a huge match-up problem with the Cav’s as they are able to put Lebron on Stuckey, and slide Mo and Delonte onto Rip/Tay, without getting killed defensively, because of Rip and Tay’s lack of physicality/driving ability.

IMO the best way to attack their frontcourt is an Amare-style, slashing PF. Varajao’s their only PF/C who they can depend on to defend athletic bigs.

So basically the foundation of a team that could have a chance against the Cav’s would have a pick and roll offense with an attacking PF and whichever “power” PG/SG is guarded by Mo/Delonte.

brgulker & Toledo Joe: Agree with what both of you are saying. I do think, players like MJ, Kobe, Bron, Magic and perhaps Wade do have the ability to will their teams to wins, even in the most competitive series. That’s why these guys make gazillions from endorsements. Arenas or a Ray Allen might put up similar numbers for a season here or there, but they don’t make the endorsement money because their teams don’t get it done with them in the lead. Teams focus their defenses around stopping certain players and certainly Bron will fit into that picture for the next 10 years. (Holy Christ he’s only 24!!) That being said, in order to beat teams like that you have to have a better edge on the rest of the positions.

I do disagree that if we were to pick up any impact FAs, get one of our bigs KwaMirMax to step up considerably and with a little luck could compete. Supposedly, the Wizards who could also pick #3 already have Haywood & McGee at the 5. Would Joe D part with our #15 and a player for the #3 pick and pick Thabett? Interior defense is set for the next 10 years, which should be enough time to at least work on a couple of low post moves besides dunks. Or do the same trade but throw in Tay + ?? for C. Butler (though the Wiz wouldn’t do this) and then pick up a PF?

Who knows. But at least because of the trade, virtually ANYTHING we come up with is possibile. With CB here, virtually NOTHING would have been possible. I think the resigns/FA etc. stuff can’t beging until 1-Jul. We’ve got 6 weeks to come up with a plan for Joe D. and I’m counting on Matt to make sure he gets it to him(lol). But we have an opportunity to add 1-3 major pieces and really not destroy our team to do so. I don’t think there’s any team in the NBA right now who can say that. With the possible exception of Memphis.

I also think alot of those teams who said in the previous year or two that they were clearing cap space to pursue the FA class in 2010 really were just clearing space and in doing so could get their fan base to go along with the record they’ll have/had. But really had no intention of being serious players. It was a win/win. I mean, all these GMs know the resign rules favor a player’s current team, etc. And in order to have that much space to add two max type players from another team means a perfect alignment of team, location, players and finances. And as for the endorsement enticement of NY/LA/Chi? Any kid wearing Nike’s in Bangledesh puts that theory to a severe test.

I’m happy for CB because there’s nothing like playing well in front of the hometown folk. The supporting cast he has is better than the supporting cast he would have had here. But in two years and Den still hasn’t won a chip (IMHO same as us with CB here and no major trades) whose team would you rather have going forward with the opportunity to win a chip? Ours or Den’s? I’m betting right now it’s Det. Well, Okay, I’m also praying in addition to betting. But most importantly is: Not only do we agree that we need to improve quite a bit, but we do have the pieces in place to make that happen. Whether is players other teams may want, finances properly aligned or what is viewed as a first class organization. As I’ve said before, nobody goes to the pats to play because of the weather.

brugulker: Good post. But when you wrote this:

“I do disagree that if we were to pick up any impact FAs, get one of our bigs KwaMirMax to step up considerably and with a little luck could compete.”

Did you mean to type “agree” instead of “disagree” in that sentence?

Joe: That was me. I meant to say if that’s what happens, we can compete.

mb, i’d take the denver roster going forward over detroits. Lots of athleticism and they’re relatively young. We’re lacking both of those traits as of now.

I was quoting someone else, so copying and pasting.

But, FWIW, I would reiterate what I said before:

Signing 1 or 2 big FAs doens’t make us competitive, because none of the FA’s we could sign completely address our biggest need, namely, two starting bigs.

Our most immediate need is a starting 4 and a starting 5, and I don’t think we can do both via free agency this summer. We have to trade in order to do so, or we have to wait until the summer of 10.

Either way, we’re not a contender next season.

Our only chance of being a contender next season:

1) Sign one quality big man this offseason.

2) Sign and trade/Trade for another big.
A. That will be difficult, because we would likely have to sacrifice something significant in return, which undermines the chances of short-term success.

3) KwaMirMax have to step up. At least one of them is going to get significant minutes next season. For us to win consistently, we need them to play better than they did this season.

4) Cash in on a fire sale.

IMO, all of that could happen — it’s possible. But, I don’t think it’s likely.

I think it’s much more likely than not that Joe knows this, and that his plans are much more long-term than ours are. In other words, I think he knows that we won’t be contenders next season, but, with some smart moves, we could be moving in the right direction.

I don’t think Joe will overpay a “superstar” this summer. If he can’t get value on the FA market, then he’ll sit on his money. That way, if a fire sale does happen — i.e., if teams need to dump good players to get under the cap — we’ll have the cap room to absorb those salaries.

Plus, with all the craziness of the summer of ’10, there are bound to be some value FAs there as well.

To me, this is going to be a 2-3 year process. I don’t anticipate that we’ll miss the Playoffs over the next two seasons, but I don’t think we’ll be viable contenders either.

This entire process, which began with the trade, is going to take at least two more seasons to work itself out. And as much as I hated the trade initially, it was the right move. Had we not done so, we’d be in a very similar situation in terms of our roster, but we wouldn’t have any financial flexibility.

Anyway, that’s a longer post than I intended when the only real point I want to make is that we have to be patient, because this is all going to take some time.

Craig: I believe my post said in two years whose team would you take. In large part because I don’t think Den wins a chip between now and then.

Martin will be gone, CB will be pushing 35 in Sep-2011 and I don’t think they can keep Smith, Melo, Nene,Martin & Birdman with adequate bench depth because of finances.

Martin will be gone, CB will be pushing 35 in Sep-2011 and I don’t think they can keep Smith, Melo, Nene,Martin & Birdman with adequate bench depth because of finances.

In other words, in two years, Denver will be facing the same problems that we faced this season — limited financial flexibility with aging players who are still good, but not as good as they used to be.

Which is why the trade will ultimately be a good thing for the franchise moving forward.

brgulker: agree completely. It will take the starts aligning for us to serious compete within two years. But without the CB trade, we’d be looking longer.

IMHO, I think Joe D makes a splash this summer and then sits on his money. I think there are a number of teams that come Feb-10 realize the pieces they put together aren’t working and either A) need to get under the cap since the only justifiable reason exceeding it is to win a chip (other than GMs with the last name of Thomas) or B) say they want to make a run at a FA in 2010. Though I’m not sure how that’s possible.

But I think we agree with the principle: As long as you have money (or available cap space) you will ALWAYS be called to be in on some kind of deal. I don’t mind struggling to see and determine what we got. But that’s the dead horse we’ve all been beating this past season. We struggled but have no idea what we got under game conditions on a consistent basis. . . other than MCIAFI.

Am I alone in thinking that not only we can compete next year, but that we have to compete next year? In 2-3 years, Tay will be 32 and Rip will be 34. What’s the point of keeping them if we only get a one or two year window with them? We might as well just blow the whole thing up now if that’s the case.

Shinons: Good logic like that is unacceptable here.

But I do agree and that’s why I think as we’ve said, Rip and/or Tay could be gone this summer or next. We can compete as perhaps a top level second tier team this year with some added pieces obiviously. Given Rip’s game, it’s hard to have a consistent second fiddle down low. His game is like Reggie M’s, but the big exception is Reggie could stretch the defenses so Rik Smits was a good fit as a secod option (or Chuck Person on the other side) because of his game. With Rip curiling around screens it doesn’t leave much in the way of a dominate low post threat (i.e., medium range shots off curls).

Am I alone in thinking that not only we can compete next year, but that we have to compete next year? In 2-3 years, Tay will be 32 and Rip will be 34. What’s the point of keeping them if we only get a one or two year window with them? We might as well just blow the whole thing up now if that’s the case.

Shinons:

Possible? Yes.

Likely? I’m skeptical.

I have suspected since the day CB was traded, however, that it was just a glimpse of what is to come for this roster. Or in your words, I think it’s probably likely that we’re blowing this whole thing up over the next season or two.

Do you read NBAroundtable? I know others have mentioned it here… there are a handful of great posts about teams that will have to dump the salaries of good players in order to stay under a shrinking/holding cap.

The great thing about our financial flexibility is that we now have the space to absorb some of those contracts through trades. As MB said, the stars have to align for us to get some of those — but if we do, I think we will be saying goodbye to Rip/Tay, and if we do trade one or both of them, we have effectively “blown it all up.”

Will we be competitive? I think so. I see us making at least one big move for FA this offseason, and I think it’s quite likely that we’ll see at least one big trade this summer or during next season. I think that means we make the playoffs that we play better in them next season than we did this season.

But, as long as LBJ and his Cavs AND the Boston Celtics play as they are playing now, it’s going to be very, very difficult to compete with them. In short, there’s a difference in my mind between being competitive and being contenders/.

Personally, I don’t see how any combination of two big FA signings makes us contenders. I think it’s going to take at least one FA and one significant trade to get us there. And it’s also going to depend on how much and how quickly Stuckey improves. And it’s also going to require KwaMirMax stepping up.

Is it possible? Yes. But I’m not convinced that can all happen over the next ten months. I think it might take more like 2-3 years.

i misread that mb, but i still like denver’s roster better in 2 years. They pretty much have the same core of chauncy/melo/nene. With kmart/jr coming off the books that year. Pistons have rip/max. Thats it. With tay coming off the books that year. We have more flexibility in between, but i’d rather have a 1-3-5 core set then the 2-4 set, even if i think chauncy’s game is going to be way less effective by then. Also agree that it makes no sense to wait to be competitive given the ages of rip and tay, shinons.

Chauncey in two years will not be the Chauncey of this year, I hate to say. I’m sure he’ll be effective, but age will become a factor.

I figure if Stuckey can improve his consistency, we acquire a post man who we can expect near 20-10 from, and our big men focus on protecting the paint that we can certainly win 50 games next year. I don’t see any reason we can’t beat Cleveland (especially if they lose Varejao, although I don’t think they will), Boston, Orlando, or any other team out there. Well, MC…

But if that’s not realistic or I’m too optimistic, then I figure we ought to focus all our energy into acquiring Chris Bosh and as many draft picks as we can get. We ought to hire Bosh’s old coach and mentor who he got along with very well, Sam Mitchell, and rebuild the team around those two franchise players – kind of like how the Spurs did.

@ brgulker:

The “Joe planned to blow the team up all along theory” has one gigantic weakness: JOE GAVE RIP A 3 YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION THAT GOES THROUGH RIP’S AGE-35 SEASON. He gave him that extension when he absolutely did NOT have to, Rip was either going to opt out, or play next season on an expiring contract.

Also, will Chanucey in 2 years be better or worse than Rip in 2 years? And remember that Rip has one more year GUARANTEED on his contract than Billups, and they’re making roughly the same per year.

Craig, I agree on the 1, 3 & 5 vs. 2, 4. But I think Den as brgulker said is in the same boat we are. Additionally, once Den fans get a taste of conf finals, they will start expecting it. (Stupid damn fans always expecting year-after-year of conf finals) And this starts to put pressure on Den manangement to re-up these guys, possibily taking a lux tax hit and over paying.

I also think in the coming years 2-4, the WCF go thru LA & Port with the wild card being Dallas just like ECF goes thru Clev & Bos and the wild card being Orl. If you’re Ainge, I don’t think you have a choice in re-upping KG (I don’t think his contract goes beyond 2011??) for large dollars and I don’t think there’s a demonstrative improvement in the NBA economy until at least next summer and probably not until 2012 because the CBA expires and will be crafter around next year’s economic scenario.

I also think that there will be deals to be made out there because of the economy, we just have to be patient.

@ Gabe:

Maybe we have different understandings of what “blowing up” means.

What Joe has done:

Let Ben Wallace walk.
Traded the best player of the “core” group, CB.

What Joe is likely to do:
Let Sheed walk.
Try to resign Dice, but hopefully Dice gets a chance with a contender and goes elsewhere.

So in sum: CB, Sheed, Ben Wallace, and Dice are gone by this summer. And, by Joe’s words, Rip and Tay are ‘for sale.’

Even if we keep Rip and Tay (and I think it’s more likely than not that one of them is traded), I still think the ‘core’ group is still pretty ‘blown up.’

In other words, I don’t think extending Rip precludes ‘blowing things up,’ given what Joe has done thus far (and what he’s likely to do, IMO).

Also, will Chanucey in 2 years be better or worse than Rip in 2 years? And remember that Rip has one more year GUARANTEED on his contract than Billups, and they’re making roughly the same per year.

If Denver wanted Rip, I’m sure Rip would have been wearing powder blue, not Piston blue, this season.

I also think that there will be deals to be made out there because of the economy, we just have to be patient.

There definitely will be, and that’s the beauty of our financial situation — especially if other teams with cap flexibility overpay FAs this summer or next. If we are patient (and by we I mean Joe D), we will get paid off. But, that could take all of this summer, all of this season, and perhaps into next summer. We just gotta wait it out.

chauncey and melo. not good enough for joe d. carmelo anthony. the one that got away.

joe d. is having a real bad year.

Gabe, I’m still scratching my head on that Rip extension.

Someone mentioned that Rip doesn’t stretch the defense like Reggie Miller. That made me think about one thing that Ben Wallace did that was overlooked offensively. He could set great picks and roll hard to the basket for alley oops to prevent his man from stepping up on Rip. Not sure why Maxiell can’t/hasn’t been doing that.

I have concerns about his defense and rebounding, but David West would be a good fit offensively with Rip. Setting picks for Rip and popping out for an open shot. It’s like an off the ball version of the pick and rolls he runs with Chris Paul.

AFB:

The only redeeming part of the Darko draft is that just about everyone thought Darko was the real deal.

@ brgulker:

Couple things- First, if we keep Rip/Tay then we have IMHO kept the most easily replaceable parts of our old core (and kept them at a premium price! Combined they’ll make around 22-23m a year the next two seasons). That doesn’t make me feel any better.

Second, and I’m basically just repeating myself: If the idea was to “blow it up,” then why, after he traded the only member of the old core with a long-term contract, did Joe turn around and sign a different member of the old core to an extension that went even longer? It just doesn’t make any sense.

Third, if the main reason for the Billups trade was for the financial flexibility, then I don’t see why we couldn’t have just traded Dice/Rip to a different team for expiring contracts, Denver wasn’t the only team dangling a big expiring contract. If the goal was just cap space, then what was stopping us from trading Rip/Dice for Marbury? We’d have the exact same short-term flexibility, and Billups is signed for one less season than Rip’s extension is now going through, so we’d have less money committed long-term also.

Rip still has it. His defense is the best on the team, he could score at will with high percentages on a team that had NO other offensive threats this year. He distributes the ball just fine. Sure, you don’t want him as your number one option, but he still has it. Again, he is a solid number 2 or 3 option.
Tay still has it. Playing the four after the olympics will wear a man down. Why blame him for dogging it against Labron? It’s not like he had any help from coaching or anyone else. Prince will never be the number one option, but as the fifth option, he can’t be beat. Detroit needs bigs. It is the consensus on this blog and becomes painfully evident watching other games (Denver/Dallas). The best bet for 2 bigs = lottery and 2010/patience.

I think Gabe has a point.

I’m not disagreeing, I guess I’m saying that it looked similar for Pierce a couple of years back. He could lead the team, but didn’t look unstoppable. A year later, with one half-season off + the cavalry and he’s outplaying Labron (last year’s Labron) in the playoffs. Trading them at 70 cents to the dollar is a mistake and they are both, despite their 22-3 m per year, cheaper than any 2 you could get for the same price.

Well said, Gabe. Extending Rip makes no sense.

Well, I would have let Ben walk also. He wanted too much money for his production.

I will let Sheed walk. He’s a bad influence when stuff ain’t going right.

OT: Long, drawn out article on the effectiveness of the full-court press. An edutaining read:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all

Just in case anybody was wondering,

Salary figures obtained by ESPN.com show that Garnett’s salary will be $14.7 million in the 2009-10 season, $17.1 million in 2010-11 and $19.5 million in 2011-12, when he’ll be 36. Garnett was already scheduled to earn $22 million and $23 million over the next two seasons.

That’s right, Boston will paying KG $20 million dollars when he’s 36. I personally think he’s already done as an “every day player”— the type of injuries that derailed him this season are classic old-age injuries. He’s about done. Just like Timmy. Too many minutes for too many years. Remember, before this season KG had already played more minutes than Larry Bird did in his entire career— no matter how well you keep your body up, big men can only last so long (unless you’re Kareem, who managed to play 20+ years at 7’3"— he was also a holistic health nut and had the type of offseason regiment that would get a lot of players’ sexuality questioned: yoga, ballet, etc.).

Perhaps Joe can trade Rip for a six pack of Mountain Dew, maybe to OKC if they want to take his contract … perhaps Joe can trade all his contracts for players whose contracts end after next season’s close … and then have 0 dollars committed for 2010 … and beg David Stern for a fantasy draft in which Joe picks first …. maybe then we’ll get LeBron James!

I can’t wait for this mystical magical mondo 2010 offseason in which every great star re-ups with their team for extra year / more money, and Joe comes away with signing some 2nd tier players.

Anyone want Dirk?

@Garrett

For the right price ($7-10mil per) and assuming that we have legitimately intimidating bruisers elsewhere on the roster, ABSOLUTELY. He has been MONSTROUS this postseason, he’s never had injury problems, and he’s going into the “KG on the Celtics” phase of his career, where he needs to be one of a handful of elite-ish type players on your team. But he’s absolutely as clutch as they come, has been incredibly healthy, and would be great as long as we have some enforcers and a couple explosive scoring wings.

And, like Rasheed, he’s absolutely tailor-made to be the first big off the bench for a championship team in his later years.

Mike Payne,

Yeah, I shouldn’t play because of the look on my face.

Dap to Sauce1977 and Birdman +1 to you both…

someone made a comment about Brandon Bass earlier. I think he’d be a quality big off the bench for Detroit, yet I got chastised by “you know who” for wanting Bass.

Bass is the rich man’s version of Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson. Bass is the reason why Dallas won Game 4 and had a good shot in Game 5. He was active on the boards, active on defense, and effective from the free throw line.

Just spit-balling here so feel free to call me an idiot:

STEP ONE: Trade Rip for the Wizard’s first round pick, DeShawn Stephenson and Darius Songaila

(I would rather have expiring contracts but since Rip has three years the Pistons will have to take some multi-year contracts in return)

STEP TWO: Trade the Wizards’ first round pick, the Pistons’ first round pick, and Amir Johnson for Chris Bosh.

STEP THREE: Use left over cap space (about 5mil I thin) to sign Marcin Gortat.

(Don’t know if he’s any good but I trust y’all)

STEP FOUR: Draft a backup SF like Omri Casspi and a hot shooting SG like either Jodie Meeks or Dionte Christmas in the second round.

STEP FIVE: Sign a backup PG for the veteran’s minumum.

STEP SIX: The following year use the full MLE to sign another quality player to shore up any weaknesses.

That leaves:

PG: 1. Will Bynum 2. Jason Hart 3. Brevin Knight
SG: 1. Rodney Stuckey 2. DeShawn Stephenson 3. Arron Afflalo 4. Jodie Meeks
SF: 1. Tayshaun Prince 2. Omri Casspi 3. Walter Sharpe 4. Deron Washington
PF: 1. Chris Bosh 2. Jason Maxiell 3. Darius Songaila
C: 1. Marcin Gortat 2. Kwame Brown 3. Trent Plaisted

+1 to QD for keeping Tayshaun Prince so that DBB can keep posting silly things about him.

Figured Wizards would want Rip because they already have Butler at the SF.

QD: Can’t feel my face. In your scenario you have Rip being traded and Stuckey moving over to the 2 spot. IMO, I would be comfortable going into the season with Afflalo and drafting Terrance Williams to battle/split time at that spot. If neither can get it done, Then Stuckey can give it a try.

I like the traditional way of doing things with one star player, preferably Bosh, a couple damn solid guys, then a couple guys that just play hard — See the Lebrons. I really don’t think we to upgrade skill-wise at every position, just heart-wise.

Roll the Dyess, I’d actually have Stuckey and Bynum share the PG duties and have the veteran there just in case.

And I had the Pistons giving up their first round pick in the Bosh trade. That’s why no Terence Williams.

I still think alot of teams say “2010 we’re making our move” only the real reason was to slash payroll between last year and next, suck without pissing off the fans and then hope for the lottery. For every GM wanting to “pry” FA X from team A, there’s going to be a GM that says “I am not in big trouble because FA X can sign for more money here. And if I got 20 other GMs after my guy, I know I’ve got a good investment and can sell it as such to the owner.”

I mean, we forced the rookie wage scale because of Allan Houston and Glen ?? BigDog from Purdue who said he wanted to be the first $100M man. Teams like the knicks with MSG TV revenue and other stuff basically forced the salary cap.

The thing with building thru the draft, excl’g TDs & Brons of the world, is that it takes several years for guys to “grow” into the NBA game. Plus it’s easy to have hindsight. We fucked up on Darko, but I think he would have been a top 10 pick if we hadn’t picked him. 16 GMs passed on Kobe. Mitch K got reamed for passing on Kidd for Bynum. Pretty good decision now because LA wouldn’t be a chip team with Kidd. Knowing down the line you could get Gasol. Well, that changes everything, but it’s hindsight. Would you rather have Wade or Bosh instead of Melo right now? I think you’d get at worst an even split. And for every Darko or Pearl Washington burnout, there’s a Bruce Bowen or some other 2nd round future HOF. It’s not necessarily a crap shoot, but pretty damn close.

I’m willing to give Joe D until training camp of 2010 to say “Was the trade worth it?” For those who say we should have kept the core together, what would we have looked like in 2010? We would have had a pick in the late 20s every year, a team that IMHO would not have won a chip in 09 or 10 and an incredibly aged roster with really no pieces to move for anything good except cap space. CB at 34 at ~11M/yr. Wheelchair Sheed. Rip & Tay winding down, but still significant players. Now you’re talking about making a trade with a team looking for the last piece who has to decide: Do I trade my young stud for that last piece. Does Miami trade Beasley & Haslam for Bosh? I think so. But how do you re-up Bosh at near max and still put out a team that also is going to have Wade at max.

In the NBA, to paraphrase Gretzy, there’s nothing like kissing a champagne stained O’Brien trophy. However, the NBA is not about winning and losing. It’s about money, first, second and last. Then you factor in winning and losing. The fans want chips and the owners want chips cheap as possible. And determining where that intersection lies is the job of the GM.

Good thing Joe Dumars is building through the draft. If he’s allowed to get it done indefinitely, mostly through the draft, Detroit will be a championship contender sometime around the year never.

charles barkley thought rasheed wallace was wrong to call stan van gundy out in the middle of the series. yeah it is sheed’s fault.

Anybody see this coming?

Memphis Grizzlies forward Darius Miles, who was suspended last season for violating the NBA’s anti-drug program, was free on bond Thursday after being charged with possession of marijuana.

Sauce: out of curiosity, and since we can’t rescind the CB trade, what would you do to rebuild the Pistons?

Here’s some wishful thinking … let’s rape Orlando again. Let’s get Dwight Howard for nothing.

Mark, I’d start by expending the most expendable one.

70 million dollars around 10 guys is an obscene amount for a metro community that seems like they care almost as much about UCF as they do the Magic.

Lewis is unmovable. He’s a 2nd option on any team, at best. His shooting doesn’t justify his average defense.

Turkoglu would be foolish to not exercise his option.

Howard is making less money than Lewis, and it’s a joke. He should demand to be traded.

Anyone else see that “Where amazing happens commercial” with Big Baby’s game winner? They showed the Celtics’ bench celebrating instead of the baby’s. Too bad. I was looking forward to see him shoving the kid in slow motion – but I was definitely not looking forward to watching his boobs in slow motion…

Suck it, Anaheim.

You’re next, Chicago.

ron artest

Sauce – glorious, just glorious. Enjoy the golf course this summer Pronger. You’re an enormous douchebag. Could you believe the cross-check on Hudler turned interference on Hudler turned pp goal for the Poultry? Ridiculous. I’m as happy that Anaheim lost as I am that we won.

That game was pretty shitty for reffing. The whole series was pretty shitty for reffing. They’re a legit team that needs a couple more guys, but in the end, Detroit got it done despite the nonsense.

Wings are reminding me what I’ve been missing with Joe’s Jugheads.

Frida Scola is off to quite a start…

@Sauce1977

Sauce I love you but… Rashard Lewis shoots lights out. It’s a shame he’s too small to play PF and he’s too slow to play SF. I’d take Rashard Lewis over 2006-2008 Rasheed Wallace.

Lewis’ contract is going to be impossible to move but, he is a good scorer and he can spread the floor for a guy like, hmmm, Rodney Stuckey to drive and kick.

Best part of the Rockets/Lakers game? Towards the end they showed Breen, Jackson, and JVG, and some dude in the background was all like, “NUMBER ONE!!! WE ROCK!!!! GO HOUSTON!!!” and then he held up his t-shirt that said LAKER HATER while the girl next to him was rolling her eyes and going, “Please stop.”

@Garrett:
and then he held up his t-shirt that said LAKER HATER while the girl next to him was rolling her eyes and going, "Please stop."

Somebody ain’t gettin’ laid tonight. Know what? That same somebody doesn’t give a fuck, he’s on cloud nine already.

(on the other end of the spectrum, that girl rolling her eyes is familiar to us all. For me, she’s the girlfriend who tried to whine about me sitting in the dark with the TV off for a good 24 hours after 2005 game 7.)

Hell, I couldn’t have said it better than Joel did on one of his best comments on DBB, imo:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2009-04-27/remembering-an-era-2006-07/#comment-182541

QD:

That’s a pretty freakin brilliant trade suggestion up above, it’s definitely my favorite of all the ones I’ve read/heard so far. It’s realistic as it makes sense for each team involved, and I think it gets us a lot closer to a line-up that could have a chance against the Cav’s. How can we get this to Joe? :)

The only thing I’d add is to somehow, someway, grab Calathes in the draft (maybe at the expense of drafting Casspi, if Deron Washington can fill the back-up SF position, or just buying an extra late first round pick), I really think Calathes would be deadly as part of a backcourt rotation with Stuck/MFWB/Spellcheck. He could play next to any of them and fit nicely, and that roster could use another 3 point shooter.

(on the other end of the spectrum, that girl rolling her eyes is familiar to us all. For me, she’s the girlfriend who tried to whine about me sitting in the dark with the TV off for a good 24 hours after 2005 game 7.)

Jesus. My wife and I got married June 25, 2005. Her family made us do some marrying bbq sort of thing the Thursday before, despite our wishes. Her family had all just gotten into town, many of whom were either from or had lived in San Antonio previously. My wife and I shared quarters where one of us would have to be out with the family, one would watch the game and update the other on commercials. Afterwards we were both just pissed for the rest of the night.

The moral of the story? Elope.

Wrong, Shinons. The moral of the story is to not marry someone from San Antonio. Or Miami. Or Cleveland. Or Boston. Or Cleveland. Or [the city whose team beats the Pistons in the 2010 playoffs]. Or…

Boney, Lewis sucks. People get their points, and then some, when he’s covering them. He reminds me of a really great Tim Thomas.

Aaron Afflalo speaks, fails to mention that Tayshaun Prince isn’t good anymore and he’s tired of watching him, so he should be traded.

Gabe, Ohad can fill us in, but I’m guessing that Casspi is better than Deron Washington at this point. I’m hoping Walter Sharpe pulls it together. He clearly has the tools to play in the NBA. Hopefully, he has the head and heart.

Oh, and…

Mother. Fucking. Aaron. Brooks.

Go Houston! Go Orlando!

Crystal Ball time:

Lakers beat a resilient Rockets team by twenty on Sunday.
Nuggets beat Lakers in 6— steal one of two in LA and then hold serve at home; you need to score 125 to beat the Nuggs in Denver and it’s physically impossible with the altitude.
Nuggets over Cavs in 6— same reasoning.

We draft DeJuan Blair and Calathes.
Derron Washington makes the team and beats out Sleepy for backup SF slot.
Draft Day Special: Tay + Amir for David West.
Sign Gortat + Artest.

Stuck/MFWB/Calathes
Rip/AA/Calathes
Artest/Washington/Sleepy
West/Blair/Max
Gortat/Kwame/Max

We’re a 50-win team and still have a ton of flexibility in 2010 given the economical signings of Gortat, Artest, and West’s cheapness (I don’t buy his “untouchable” status for one minute).

Hey Joel:
I cosign cosign cosign cosign cosign. Bring back the muthafuckin’ “goin’ to work” whistle.

Just an aside: I’m on board for keeping Tay as long as we can get a legit scoring SF as his backup and we play him 20 minutes a game, but that fucks up the David West trade, so we’ll have to finagle some other type of magic for the PF spot. I’m down for Boozer (on the CHEAP, so not likely) or another “magical salary dump” trade for Brand, although he is a little pricey.

Joel, not sure how you can praise Dirk so much, and then qualify that you’d only be ok with it if we paid him less then half his current salary.

Joel:

What exactly qualifies as a ton of flexibility in 2010?

If we traded for Posey/West that would only eat about 2 million of cap space, leaving us with about 16 million. Ron Artest made 7.4 million this year. I gotta assume that he makes at least that much if not more in his next contract. I don’t know what Gortat is worth. 4 mil maybe? That’s another 11-12 million right there. Leaving us with about 4-5 million in cap space. We’ll also need to resign Stuck and MFWB. Kwame’s 4 million will come off the books which would leave us with 8-9 million, but we’ll need to replace him. So, who could we get in 2010 and still be able to resign Stuckey and MFWB? IMO, We’ll have flexibility to sign a role player, not an all-star.

@Craig

I want my cake and I’m gonna eat that shit too. Besides, you can’t be looking for max money when you’re 32. He’s not KG.

@Colin

I don’t want Posey in that trade. But yeah, maybe “ton of caproom” wasn’t the right phrase. “Enough money to make another decent signing” would be a little more sensible.

My Summer as Pistons GM
By Onions

1. Draft day is our first roster additions. I’m cool with Maxillsap, I mean Blair with our first round pick. And we draft Dajuan Summers, a big athletic sweet shooting three who only fell this far because teams overvalue the tourney, with the 35/36 pick. I miss the rest of the draft because I’m doing backflips up the Sandia Mountains. Sorry. If I were around, I would have looked into some backcourt help. Maybe one of those big versatile young foreign kids with the first second rounder and Dominic James with the second one.

2. Philly calls me up to say they’d like to offer us Elton Brand to in a sign and trade for Sheed for $13 million/2 years. This will let them have the space to re-sign Andre Miller since Lou Williams obviously isn’t ready, or go after one of the other PGs on the market (Kidd, Bibby, Sessions). Sheed’s two year deal will run out the same time as Dalembert, Evans, and Green, which works well for their cap space. In the meantime, they’re running a lineup of:
FA PG/Williams
Green/Williams
Iggy/Young
Sheed/Young/Speights
Dalembert/Evans/Speights
I tell them I’ll think about it. The next day, Elton Brand’s a Piston.

3. I look to address the center situation. I check out Gortat’s cost and inquire to the Suns about Robin Lopez (probably offering Amir). I’m happy with either one.

4. I enroll MC in the following classes: “Effectively Communicating Ideas,” “How To Talk Good,” “Enunciation For Beginners,” and “English For Non-Native Speakers.”

Opening day our roster looks like:
Stuck/MFWB
Rip/AA
Tay/Summers/Sharpe
Brand/DaMax
Either Kwame/Gortat/Amir or Lopez/Kwame with help from DaMax

@Colin (and Joel):
Ron Artest made 7.4 million this year.
I’d actually suggest we make a move for whichever of these players comes cheaper:
Marvin Williams
Ron Artest
Shawn Marion

It is likely that one of those can be had for less than $7 million. Williams is the best long-term solution, but the other two would work well for a shorter contract.

If all else fails, we can build for a year with either Afflalo or a cheap 1 or 2 year Herrmann, then aim $7-8 mil at Azubuike in 2010. I like Azubuike more than the three above, actually.

Maybe one of those big versatile young foreign kids with the first second rounder and Dominic James with the second one.

Should read “second second rounder” and “third one.” My bad.

Article from The Onion:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/pistons_discover_allen

I’ve warmed up to the idea of going after Kaman. If the Clippers would take Amir for him, that would still leave 10mil to sign a PF. Boozer might have to take that because he wouldn’t be able to get anything better.

Kaman seems like the kind of player that would play with more energy once he went to a team that had a legit chance of making the playoffs. Plus, he’s from Michigan, has family and a house here. I could see him being rejuvenated.

He’s by far the best all-around Center the Pistons could get. He’s got post moves with both hands. He’s a good rebounded and decent shot blocker. His knocks have been consistency and injuries. I think the first can be solved by leaving the Clippers and hopefully the second by Arnie Kander.

Stuckey/MFWB
RIP/Afflalo
Prince/T. Williams?
Boozer/Max
Kaman/Kwame

Then, a year later, Dumars can add another quality player with the MLE.

I concur with onions. sheed goes home, we get the 20/10 guy to anchor the front court, and Blair would be an excellent pick at 15.

I’ll take “undersized small forward for the block”!

Kelenna Azuibuike isn’t a small forward.

@MP: Haha, yeah, we’ve all been there with the lady-friend vs. basketball I think. That’s probably why I found it so entertaining. The guy was SO hyped that the Rockets were going to win, and the girl was like, “Whatevs. I’m going to sleep alone tonight.”

I like Shinions’ scenario, and I also like the thought of Kaman. Not being in the conference finals is actually pretty exciting!

Joel:

If you don’t want Posey, who would you take along with West. NO is not going to trade West straight up for Tay/Amir. Actually, they can’t because they’re over the cap. The only reason, they would consider trading West is because they are over the cap and he is their most tradable contract. That means they will only move him if someone will take a shitty contract. They’d probably like to get rid of Peja’s 12 million, Posey’s MLE, and/or Antonio Daniels’ 6 million. I sure as shit don’t want Peja. Daniels makes slightly more, but for a year or two less so it sort of seems like a toss up to me.

None of you could pass as pretend GMs:

STEP ONE: Trade Rip for the Wizard’s first round pick, DeShawn Stephenson and Darius Songaila

Nope: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q68

Draft Day Special: Tay + Amir for David West.

Nope: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q68

Nope2: New Orleans is trying to get rid of salary commitments, not David West.. he’s good.

2. Philly calls me up to say they’d like to offer us Elton Brand to in a sign and trade for Sheed for $13 million/2 years.

Nope: Sign and Trades for minimum 3 years.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q76

Garrett, I saw that guy on TV too and made the same comment about the girl with him. The lady friend I was with, however, was muttering obsenities at him and cursing her “abusive relationship” with the Lakers.

Colin, I think NO would want to get rid of Mo Pete too because Scott never plays him.

QD: Right you are. I forgot about him. Probably, because Scott never plays him. He gets paid almost the same as Posey, but is on the hook for 2 instead of 3 more years. I’d take him, if it got me West, but I really don’t think any of these scenarious are realistic. If we trade Tay/Amir for West and anyone aside from Peja, NO gets 2 million in space plus 3 million at the end of the year when Amir’s contract is up. Is 5 million and cap space and Tayshaun Prince worth David West. Not if you’re a fan of the Hornets.

Roll the Dyess, thanks for the link. I assumed that draft picks counted as much as the rookie scale, but apparently they are worth $0 salary cap wise when it comes to trades.

2. Philly calls me up to say they’d like to offer us Elton Brand to in a sign and trade for Sheed for $13 million/2 years.

Nope: Sign and Trades for minimum 3 years.

Only the first year has to be guaranteed. My edit is: “…a sign and trade for Sheed for $20 million/3 years, third year being a team option.”

So there.

I think Rip for Etan Thomas, DeShawn Stephenson and the Wizard’s first round works though. And Thomas’s contract comes off the books for 2010.

Shinons:

1)Now all you have to do is convince Philly that Sheed can fill their starting PF spot for the next two years.

2)Your number four is the essential piece there.

3)How do you not trade one of Tay or Rip? I thought everyone was assuming at least one of them are gone next year.

Roll the Dyess,

Thank you for clarifying.

I don’t understand the fascination with undersized power forwards being the answer. Any GM would lick his lips at the thought of acquiring West for the contract he’s signed for. The value depreciates each year by nearly 800,000 until his player option year which he will opt out of if he’s smart.

New Orleans isn’t going to move Antonio Daniels for more contracts because he’s expiring.

If we’re dealing with New Orleans we’re looking at:
Mo Pete
Peja
Chandler
Posey

I doubt NO breaks up West and Paul because of what they’ve done and because of how West’s contract was front loaded.

Let’s get over New Orleans anyway… the only player worth his salary on that team is Chris Paul and if we aren’t getting him it’s not even worth the discussion. West is a below average defender, he’s soft, and he plays like a bitch.

@Boney:
Kelenna Azuibuike isn’t a small forward.

He had 51 starts at Small Forward for Golden State this season.

and as far as the Wizards are concerned I’ll just tell you something about the #1 pick here…

don’t expect to get it unless out of the top 3, and then really does anyone want it?

@Mike Payne

Jason Maxiell plays power forward for us as well, and he’s 6’6. Kelenna is a generous 6’5… he doesn’t have the body to play SF for a real team.

WTF do you want out there? if a 6’5 small forward is the answer when 6’7 Paul Pierce, 6’9 LeBron James, 6’10 Danny Granger, 6’11 Kevin Durant are still in the league, I’d rather take my chances with Arron Afflalo

Wiz aren’t going to deal anyone to ADD $$.

Last year they were trying to dump Antawn who they just signed to a deal.

The Wizards will be a decent team this season:

PG: Gil/Crittenton
SG: Young/DeShawn
SF: Caron/McGuire
PF: Antawn/Thomas/Griffin
C: Haywood/Griffin/Blache

Boney: I have to agree. I didn’t realize that Antonio Daniels was expiring. Your overall point regarding NO and the wiz is well taken. I do like David West more than you though.

@Boney:
Agreed about Azubuike’s height, its the one and only negative I have about him. He’s heavier than Prince, yet not as long either. Aside from that, there is very little not to love about that kid.

boney, you’re a couple of steps ahead of yourself on that wiz prediction. I want to see gill/haywood b4 counting them as assets, and the ping pong balls could go any way for them. I agree with you about $$ for NO and the wiz, though. The only moves they make involve getting out from under the cap, and any move would involve some ugly contracts.

1)Now all you have to do is convince Philly that Sheed can fill their starting PF spot for the next two years.

My thought is that with Thad Young and Speights, they probably don’t feel that they need a 30 mpg guy. That Sheed would help them with the problem of being the worst three point shooting team in the league for a couple years till Thad or Speights are ready, keeps them flexible financially, helps the young big men with their game, then they hand the reins to the youngsters. I like my rose colored glasses, thank you.

2)Your number four is the essential piece there.

Agreed. Maybe if people knew what he was saying, he’d be a better coach. Or maybe a worse coach. Who knows.

3)How do you not trade one of Tay or Rip? I thought everyone was assuming at least one of them are gone next year.

I like Rip and Tay.

I think we should make Gortat and Marvin williams our priorities this year .I know the 4 and the 5 are our weakest area’s but there are no 4’s out there that are available that don’t have either injury problems are weak defenders or are too old too help us in 3 to 4 yrs. when were ready to compete again, so lets upgrade three, sign Gortat for the 5 and try to steal wright from Golden st. of course if Joe can finangle Bosh from Toronto , then disregard this whole post.

@MikePayne

Jason Maxiell is heavy too.

@Colin

I’m not a big fan of David West because he plays good defense like Rasheed plays good defense. if a team is dumping salary, you don’t dump an “all star” whose contract is actually cap friendly.

@Craig

The only person on the Wiz who I’m worried about is Antawn Jamison. The other players who have been hurt or playing will stay the same or get better. Should WAS get the #1 overall pick, and they take Griffin, that team will be filthy. Haywood was on his way to a good career before getting hurt this season.

If Haywood (10 – 7 – 1.7) was on his way to a good career, Kaman (15.7 – 12.7 – 2.8) was on his way to all-world status. Kaman’s making $9.5 mil for another two years— that’s really not that bad, assuming that he’s able to stay healthy and put up comparable numbers going forward. The guy just turned 27 two weeks ago.

Joel: Remember when Kaman played for Germany in the Olympics this summer? Do we really want a bonehead guy like that?

http://www.freep.com/article/20090515/SPORTS03/905150328/1051/Kwame+Brown+won+t+rush+decision+on+option

Amazing, considering a year ago, you’d be foolish to see if there were other options on the table … if Brown gets one extra dime, or any player, for that matter, I think they go elsewhere, thanks to Joe Dumars.

I took shots at everyone else’s rosters, so take a shot at me. I’ll leave the means up to your imaginations and give you the ends.

Stuckey/Bynum/Lindsey Hunter
Afflalo/T. Will/Deron Washington
Turkoglu/Travis Outlaw/Sharpe
Bosh/Maxiell/Plaisted
Kwame/Zaza/Dyess

Sauce, I saw that too. Like he thinks he has a market, he just has a smart agent.

I like Travis Outlaw,

Draft Express has the workout schedules up. It looks like the Pistons are concentrating on a second round strat.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-workouts.php

I agree, it’s foolish to think there’s a market, but I guess if a contender doesn’t want to pay him a little more to be their backup center, he’s stuck with Joe’s Jalopies.

I saw the Kwame news earlier too, but didn’t give it any thought. Its a PR ploy by Brown’s agent to see what interest there is on the common market. Essentially, this statement allows Brown to test the free agent market without having to actually test the free agent market.

I agree with MP on the Kwame thing. It sounded like he was just being coy.

Joel: Remember when Kaman played for Germany in the Olympics this summer? Do we really want a bonehead guy like that?

I fail to see how playing for the German national team makes him a bonehead. Does that make Dirk a bonehead? How about Deng and Gordon playing for Great Britain? Dalembert for Canada? Nene for Brazil?

The guy got to play in the Olympics. I’d be on the fucking curling team if they’d let me go to the Olympics, hang out with elite athletes and celebrities, see China, all for free no less.

Don’t get your thinking, sir.

“Joe’s Jalopies” sounds like either a sandwich place or a seedy strip joint.

@Roll the Dyess:
Stuckey/Bynum/Lindsey Hunter
Afflalo/T. Will/Deron Washington
Turkoglu/Travis Outlaw/Sharpe
Bosh/Maxiell/Plaisted
Kwame/Zaza/Dyess

That squad certainly isn’t better than Toronto’s roster at present. Stuckey certainly isn’t Calderon, Afflalo is about even with Parker, Torkoglu is to offense what Marion is to defense, and Kwame give Bosh the frontcourt mate that he had in Nesterovic last season.

I mentioned somewhere upthread that I don’t like Bosh on our roster. He’s not a superstar, in that he can’t carry a team on his back and will them to success (like wade, kobe, lebron, duncan, dirk and others can). There’s nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but you KNOW Bosh is getting a raise next year, no question. $16 – $17 million is actually spot on for a guy with his production, maybe $18. But he’s almost certainly going to get more than that next year, and as a result he’ll prevent his new GM from giving Bosh what he truly needs to be successful— a superstar to play with in tandem.

Listening to the Bill Simmons podcast which Joel mentioned upthread, this kind of confirmed my concerns about Bosh. Who is a great comparison to Bosh in terms of player caliber (and certainly not playing style, stats or position)? Tracy McGrady. A second-tier star that has shown greatness in spurts, but never achieved success.

In short, I don’t like the idea of paying $20M+ for a guy who can’t do it on his own, who came from a better roster than we have, then tying up our funds for the next five years or more.

This is why I’ve been so turned on by these New Orleans rumors, I’d MUCH rather trade for West and take on an ugly salary than overpay one guy at $20 million/yr. Is $20M for Bosh worth the minute upgrade over $8.3M for West (+a bad contract)?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=boshch01&y1=2009&p2=westda01&y2=2009

I’m not at all saying those who prefer Bosh are wrong, but I thought I’d weigh in with my own perspective.

Kaman is apparently a weirdo. He apparently tried to stab a guy when he was a kid and, according to Simmons, “he drives his boat into international waters so he can fire guns at fish.”

Awesome.

Whoops, wrong link above— that was for cumulative seasons, not their last season. Here is the most recent season comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=boshch01&y1=2009&p2=westda01&y2=2009

Dude, he’s from Grand Rapids. He’s southwest Michigan, like myself. We like boats. We like lakes. We like to do weird shit with boats on lakes. If I was 26 and had a shitload of money, the bizarre shit I’d get into would be indescribable on public message boards. What the man does in his free time is his business.

@shinons:
And he’s wicked with a bow and arrow, too. So he’s got that going for him. Which is nice.

@Joel:
Sandy Pines FTW

I mean “weirdo” in the absolute best way possible. I would be willing to overlook his defensive deficiencies in lieu of awesomeness like that.

@Boney:
“I’m not a big fan of David West because he plays good defense like Rasheed plays good defense. if a team is dumping salary, you don’t dump an "all star" whose contract is actually cap friendly.”

I don’t really understand the Sheed comparison. Do you mean, he plays when he feels like it? I’m confused.

Cosign the latter part.

Great picture of Will Bynum coaching Michael Curry.

Kaman has always been a little strange but who cares really… I know kaman has a learning dissability.

@Sauce:
Caption-
Bynum: “Nonono, RE-bounds. Say it with me, RE-bounds. Rebounds. ‘RE’ like Cur-‘RE’.”

MCIAFI: “Cubby? Dike bah last name?”

Michael Curry in his childhood role

Kaman is eccentric but the Clippers announcers have always been effusive in their praise of him as a person.

And since when has mental instablity been a concern (see: “Ron Artest as a Piston” comments)

Not sure how he got the reputation as a bad defender, but that’s not true. He’s a good shot-blocker. Good post defender. He’s mobile for a guy his size. And he’s a good rebounder. I’m sure he can do anything that the Biedrins and Gortat’s of the world can do plus he has post moves with both hands.

I’d love to have Bosh on our squad. He would be my first choice, by far, but I think he’ll be tough to get. Comparing him to McGrady is way off base, I think. And I don’t think his numbers tell the whole story, especially when David West plays with Chris Paul, who commands a lot of attention and can get him the ball when ever. Bosh had to play with a gimpy Joe Calderon who never looked quite right all season and faced double and triple teams every night. He still managed to put up slightly better numbers than West. But West IS cheaper…..

I agree with the assertion that Bosh is a “complimentary star” player. But, the same could be said about Kevin Garnett who always folded in the 4th Quarter until he got paired with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen who aren’t afraid to take big shots.

I think the Pistons are in a position to put a better team around Bosh than Toronto.

@QD:
Agreed re: Garnett. He’s got to have other all-stars around him to be truly great, and Ray Allen / Paul Pierce (and now Rondo, as well) are a perfect fit.

I think, conversely, Rip could give Bosh what Allen gives Garnett. I’d hate to have to give up Rip to get Bosh though. Beyond that, its hard to see that far into the future to know what we could give Bosh. With a salary likely 25% larger than his is now, it’ll be a greater challenge to try and find talent to compliment his play.

It’s not something that you can really quantify. It’s just a feeling that I, and some others get, that Bosh can be that guy who leads us to the promise land.

On a different note ,we need a new thread ,how about go young or go for it now , pro’s and cons.Personaly I’m all for Marvin williams, Brandon Wright ,Gortat and Blair.This group would at least give it there all and would be exciting to watch,it might take a few yrs.butsometimes the best part of winning a championship is the journey along the way.

Defor, I’m not opposed to going young, but there’s always the danger that you turn into the Timberwolves.

Mike Payne, I think I was one of the first to mention the David West option (after reading that nbaroundtable post on their cap troubles). I’d be cool with David West if the contract the Pistons have to eat is James Posey (you can’t have too many physical defenders with consistent three point range). And since my new kick is getting Kaman, I’d be happy if the Stons used Amir Johnson’s expiring contract and all of their draft picks to get West, Posey and Kaman.

Roster Game:
Stuck/MFWB/Brevin Knight (for safety and mentorship)
Rip/Afflalo/D. Washington (moved him to SG only because I’m anal and want 3 at each position)
Tay/Posey/Sharpe
West/Maxiell/McDyess (would he see hope here?)
Kaman/Kwame/Plaisted

True enough Quick Darshan , and i’m not opposed to West even if we have to take on Posey, but if were gonna do that I still think we should go after marvin Williams ,all tho we probably would have to settle for Gortat instead of Kaman but maybe we could do both , which would give us a fairly young team and some experience.

Damn it forgot Posey plays sf,unless we moved him the 2.

@QD:
Right you are, my man:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2009-04-05/pistons-bobcats-game-thread-2/#comment-179252

Nice thing about helping Matt and Kevin here and there, I can search comments. I wish that feature was public (something we should push for when Matt’s done with the playoffs and can start talking DBB improvements).

While It would be pretty awesome if we could just move picks and Amir to pick up both West AND Kaman, I think it is pretty unlikely. I don’t know what’s going on with the Clippers, but I’d assume NO would want some value back for their all star PF (and his amazing contract). I know their cap issues are fucked, but tay+amir gives them a huge improvement over Peja and a roll-the-dice shot at Amir actually breaking out and working out for them. Who knows, I just think their organization couldn’t part with an All Star without giving something back to the fans.

Defore brought up a scenario I’ve been mentioning for a while now: Marvin Williams. If we can make the above move for West, I think its a no-brainer to bring in Williams and Gortat, which we could probably pull off for $12 million. Then extend MFWB and we’ve got a crew.

If the NO rumors are nothing more than rumors and West really is “untouchable”, who else might move a solid 4 that we could get our hands on via trade? Any thoughts DBB?

As for the other three free agent PFs that we could go after, I see Lee and Millsap getting $10M. That’s borderline overpaying for David Lee, as Memphis, Sacramento (depending on their draft pick) and OKC will likely push his price up over $10M. If that’s the case, we should likely pass. As for Millsap, Utah won’t have Boozer’s contract to worry about, so they’ll likely be able to match whatever comes to Big Paul (and then sign Okur on the cheap, which he has already said he’s okay with). Even then, I can see the other FA players offering Millsap over $10M to try and outbid Utah.

So if West can’t be moved, if there aren’t any other PFs available by trade, and if Lee/Millsap become over-priced, then I’d like to see about Boozer. $11M – $12M, 5 years.

Then we extend Will Bynum. Then we get creative with Amir and draft picks to get a backup SF with size and defense and maybe even a 3-point shot. Next year, when Kwame expires, we take our remaining cap and try to pin down a big defensive 5 to work with Boozer (hell, maybe even extend Kwame).

Option A:

Stuckey/MFWB/Calathes
Rip/Afflalo
Williams/Posey
West/Maxiell/Blair
Gortat/Brown

Option B:
Stuckey/MFWB/Calathes
Rip/Afflalo
Prince/?/Sharpe
Boozer/Blair
Brown/Maxiell

Option C:
We get nuts and see what this guy Blair is really made of, and give him the trial by fire start at the 4 next to Brown. Oh wait, that doesn’t work actually because of MCIAFI.

Oh, and a hat tip to Joel, who has me so sold on Gortat and Calathes that I wouldn’t consider any other option, dammit.

Also, I put this together but forgot to post, a comparison of Gortat and Kaman. Take per 36 with a grain of salt, but should Gortat maintain 80% of that given the minutes then his price is most definitely right:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=kamanch01&y1=2009&p2=gortama01&y2=2009

I think your right on with Williams and Gortat MP, if we can’t get West maybe we should take a shot at Blair hold the rest of our cap and try to make a move at the trade deadline, you know someone is gonna be moved then ,and I think a starting five of Stuck,Rip,Blair,Williams and Gortat would at least compete , now if we just had a coach.

@Defor:
Depending on the where Stern places the cap this after this season, its likely the Pistons will have between $14.5 million and $16.5 million to spend. Williams and Gortat would likely take $12 million ($5 for gortat, $7+ for williams). That’d leave us with $2.5 – $4.5 million leftover, much of which would go to Will Bynum (which is a necessity).

I’d love to see what happens with Blair, as Gortat is 24 and Williams is 22, taking immediacy out of the question. So if things don’t work in a year, we can make moves accordingly to figure that out.

We’d have Tayshaun, Amir, Maxiell and others who are available as trade chips, meaning that by the deadline we could make something happen for a PF (as you pointed out).

I’m perfectly content with those options. Stuckey, Rip, Williams/Tay, Blair and Gortat likely wont’ get us as many wins as we did last year. However, that squad would have until mid-february to find out who is gonna have a breakout year:
Stuckey
Williams
Blair
Gortat

None of those players (obviously with Blair) has peaked yet, and this trial-by-fire could find an all star in the making.

As a fan, would it suck to have to go through another season that is potentially worse off than the one that just ended? Actually, I don’t think it would be worse. My favorite part of this last season was watching Stuckey in January, Bynum in March and April, Afflalo in November. The teams as it had been constructed up until this year was all about known factors. It was the youth, the next crop, the rising players that made this year worth watching.

I’m perfectly comfortable signing young talent and giving them a season to grow while we set up trade options with valued assets.