Does this affect who we draft?

Or, does it mean we see more MFWB?

Or, does it mean that trading Rip is all that more likely?

I’ll put money on trading RIP and Tay is a sure thing this summer. Stupid stupid stupid. Leave him at PG, sign Danny Granger, move Tay for a center

PG-Stuckey
SG-RIP
SF-Granger
PF-Johnson
C-Kaman?

Joe has to understand he screwed up. I mean every decision, from firing Flip, to his ‘no sacred cows’ remark, to hiring Mark “What am I doing here” Curry, to resigning Rip, to the trade, to his comments in that lame ass press conference. I guess when he made the trade he didn’t notice that the economy was on the downside & that the CBA was about to take a hit as a result. Looking at the available players as FA or RFA NONE of them will help the team or coach we have bring us back to the top. Then the trade rout is a dead end because again, not 1 team willing to let go of that impact player we need. We are talking about giving up Tay Rip & Amir. Dyess & Sheed are gone! AI gone! All to build around…wait for it…RODNEY “PASS THE BALL AT HALF COURT” STUCKEY! Terrible. What ‘IMPACT PLAYER" wants to go to a team clearly headed for the lottery again next year. Our best bet, is to go into next season with what we have. Hold onto Stucky Tay & Rip & HOPE that next summer the cap doesn’t take another nose dive. a team of PG-Stuckey
SG-RIP
SF-Granger
PF-Johnson
C-Kaman?

WILL NOT beat Cleveland, Boston, MIA, LA DEN or anyone. That’s a 7th seed max! We need to admit Joe F’d up! It’s a wrap. I think he needs to add his name to the sacred cows list! Because it’s time for Crazy Joe to go!

Hey Matt and DBBers,

We just did a whole Pistonscast show on this topic last week.

I would like to share the link if thats okay with you.

http://tinyurl.com/pzoxcl

Danny Granger is under contract until 2014; he signed a 5-year $60 mil extention back in November.

I don’t see how Joe really F’d up. The team as constructed before the Iverson deal and even if we had kept Saunders wasn’t getting past Cleveland or Boston anyway. Hell, 2007 and 2008 should have proved it when we went down to both teams. So keeping intact a team you know will fail would have been incredibly stupid. At least now, Dumars has the ability to build a new team, that might actually have a hope of defeating those two. Instead of parading out the same tired old team that had proven time and time again it wasn’t able to make that final push for a Championship.

Well, at least Joe can see the obvious.

Man do I agree that Dumars has screwed up big time. It started by failing to find some decent young big prospects since the championship season. (And no, Johnson and Maxiell are not championship contender starters.) And now it’s ended with “Stuckey is a combo guard.” The kid doesn’t have a reliable jump shot and he can’t finish at the hoop. I don’t think Dumars meant combo guard, I think he meant back-up guard until he does a whole a lot of improving.

Can’t wait for Stuckey to prove all his doubters wrong.

QD,

Do you think he’s a pg? I don’t, but I also think he could be an all-star combo guard.

Colin, I think he can be a point guard if he sets his mind to it. It would have been my preference to trade Rip over Chauncey and have Stuckey at the two. Because, for whatever reason, Stuckey is unstoppable when attacking from the wing but has trouble when attacking from the top. Maybe the defense has more time to close him off or something.

My comment was about all the people who seem to be labelling him a bust or acting like he’s already a finished product with no room for growth.

So Joe’s epiphany about Stuckey being a combo guard is why they quit letting him run the offense at the end of the season and gave it to Rip? Should I read that far into it? I still believe it was in Stuckey’s best interest to have a Billups around rather than a Iverson type figure. Unless, of course, you KNEW Stuckey was ready. I’m giving Joe a slap on the wrist for this one. I still have faith Stuckey. Practice! Block out all that evil Iverson crap! It’s a new day. That last season never happened. Take a second, think, then drive that damn lane and make something happen!

Joe D can’t draft well? – (In order) Drafted Memo in the second round (38), Drafted Tayshaun with the 23rd pick, Delfino with the 25th pick, selected Maxiell and Amir with the 26th and 56th picks, and drafted Stuckey and Aaron Afflalo with the 15th and 27th picks. That’s 7 quality players since 2000 when Joe D got promoted. I know Delfino might be a stretch but I didn’t want to put Darko because drafting him upset me right when it happened. I begged to be wrong about him but obviously I was right. I know there are a lot of teams in the NBA that wish they could say they have drafted 7 quality players since 2000.

As for Joe D being wrong about Stuckey, I hope people can remember when we got Chauncey in 2002 many people viewed him as a combo guard and it wasn’t until he got coached by Larry Brown that his game stepped up to the next level. And I’m sure Stuckey can take that next step as well. Just because Joe said he is a “combo guard” does not mean that he is NOT a PG, it actually means he can be better than a PG by being a valuable PG/SG. Being able to have him and Bynum on the floor would enable us to have our 2 best slashers on the court at the same time.

TJ from above gets it, you can’t judge the Billups/Iverson trade until the resources we traded for is used, and the resources I’m talking about is cap space. So until we sign or trade for people this offseason, we can’t properly judge the trade. As it is right now it looks like junk, but if before next season it looks like we traded Billups for Boozer and Turkoglu, that might be a little different. However, that as well is just heresay, so, the only option is to sit and wait to see how it all unfolds.

KRONIKjose: Dumars botched three lottery picks in a row: Mateen Cleaves 14th overall in 2000, Rodney White 9th overall in 2001 and Darko 2nd overall in 2003. That’s horrible.

Yeah, he had some finds with later picks, but as much as I like Delfino, he went ahead of Kendrick Perkins, Leonardo Barbosa, Josh Howard, Jason Kapono, Luke Walton, Steve Blake, Willie Green, Zaza Pachulia, Keith Bogans, Matt Bonner, Mo Williams, James Jones and Kyle Korver — you could argue Delfino has been the least successful of the bunch (esp. since, you know, he’s playing in Russia right now …)

I like Maxiell a lot, but there are arguably better players that went after him (David Lee, Ronny Turiaff, Monta Ellis, Louis Williams, Andray Blatche). Same with Amir Johnson (Marcin Gortat).

Hindsight is 20/20, and I’d argue the bigger problem is Detroit’s inability to properly develop young players once they find them, but Dumars is hardly head and shoulders above the league simply because he “found” Tayshaun, a four-year star at a major college, at 23.

Rebuilding a team with a neophyte coach, is indeed not a good idea. Mike Curry does not even know the individual capabilities of his players. Hence, no set play was introduced and player performance enhanced. He is not agressive enough to win or close a game nor substitue a very tired player because he does not know his players indivdually. When a piston receives a ball, he makes his own style of offense without support from his teammates because they do not know his next move, The result, turnover or futile offensive maneuver. This is not a learning process for a neophyte coach Mr. Dumars, notwithstanding your friendly relationship with Mike Curry.
How did find new coaches such as Del Negro, Spoelstra, Frank and Johnson? They really have the making of a good coach. Mike Curry is better as a basketball analyst and not a field general. Wake up Mr Dumars.
Roger

It’s hard to be a PG when your team has very little post offense and very little 3-pt shooting. What kind of plays are you supposed to run? Rip off a screen and what exactly? McDyess for an elbow jumper? When floor is a little more balanced I think Stuckey will look better at the point.

As for the tea leaves behind these comments, I could see Rip going to the Spurs for Ginobili straight up, with the Spurs with the Pistons getting injury risk and a shorter $$ commitment and the Spurs getting consistency to compliment Duncan.

I don’t like that trade. As great as Manu is, I wonder now about how much he has left with his injuries… that trade makes Detroit look a clearinghouse what with taking Iverson for Billups. I don’t know if we can let Rip go, even with his pussy attitude.

After this season, what’s the consensus around the league regarding Dumars’ rep as teambuilder/dealer? We gotta wait ’til this cap is spent, and a season or two with the incoming bodies.

I have to agree with Matt Watson here … Joe D really really sucks at drafts. Sucks hard. Tayshaun and Stuckey don’t make up for all the failure he selects.

That being said, Tayshaun rules. Suck it, Matt.

So, how many championship teams have there been since Dumars took the reigns? If chips are the judge, and not just bothced draft picks, then Dumars is wildly above average with respect to his peers.

The Stons will be back. Not next year and probably not the year after that… but we’ll be back, because Dumars will make it happen.

I also still trust Joe. You can put a list like that up to anyone – the other day, I did the same thing showing all of Buford’s botched draft picks since Parker. It was a whole lot worse than Dumar’s. Or you could put up a guy who does well with drafts, say, John Paxon (draft record: Ben Gordon, Chris Duhon, Luol Deng, Ty Thomas, Thabo Sefolosha, Joakim Noah, Derrick Rose). Everyone on that list was starting by the end of last year (except Deng, who was injured). That’s amazing. But he lost his job because he couldn’t turn those draft choices into a roster that could compete for a ship. They dropped the ball on Gasol, KG, signed Ben Wallace to his horrible contract, then ended up settling for weak trade after weak trade.

Dumars has had his successes and his failures, certainly. But at least he has guts and I’ll take that over the John Paxons of the world any day.

^AGREED

Frankly I’m if not happy at least ok with the job joe’s done there are alot worse GM.‘s out there then joe ,I don’t know how many of you are lions fans but we’ve just endured the worse 8 yrs. of general managership I hope to ever see in matt Millen ,I know its comparing apples to oranges but we could have had mchale or as much as it pains me to say this Isaih Thomas ,who is still my all time favorite piston but a poor GM.

I’m not saying Dumars is a horrible GM by any stretch — he’s obviously one of the better GMs. I’m just saying when it comes to one particular aspect of his job — namely, the draft — he’s merely fair instead of good or excellent.

I don’t think you can count Mateen Cleaves as a bad pick because Morris Peterson is the only player that went after him that went on to have any kind of career. That was just a bad draft class.

QD — That was a bad class, but … the next seven picks after Mateen: Jason Collier (ugh), Hedo Turkoglu, Desmond Mason, Quentin Richardson and Jamaal Magloire, Speedy Claxton and Morris Peterson — any of those guys (sadly, even Collier) would have been better picks.

Michael Redd was a second rounder that year (everyone whiffed — I won’t hold Dumars responsible). DeShawn Stevenson, Marko Jaric and Eddie House also went after — not special, but at least role players who had an actual career.

…f#cking marko jaric…

Mr. Payne, that’s Adriana Lima’s job, not yours. Homewrecker!