Tell you what, I’ll give you the vet minimum and a truckload of Iverson jerseys. Deal?

8M ?? Good Fukn Luck. I think he made just a hare under that this year. Of course, his play wasn’t just a hare under what he was being paid. Again, Good Fukn Luck.

Sheed’s a lot of things, but stupid he ain’t. I doubt he expects that much. Orlando makes a lot of sense because he seems to really like Dwight Howard. San Antonio makes sense too because I think he really respects Popovich. I could see both offering the MLE.

‘Sheed will be playing in either Orlando or San Antonio next year and several years beyond for X dollars. Let X = more cheddar than he’d be making in retirement. He’s not stupid and he knows he’ll be playing 20 odd minutes a night for 70 games and not being an anchor piece in the regular season.

Eh, good call by Sheed. Kind of like a player’s press release – letting GMs know through a third party that if they want him, they’re going to have to pay him. If he’s taking more than the MLE, makes him potential sign and trade bait.

Well, at least he’ll retire as a Piston.

Hey Sheed….don’t let the Palace’s doors hit you on your ass on your way out. See ya Sheet…thanks for nothing for the past five years.

I vote for the “or else.”

I like sheed, he’s worth a two year 8 mil…

Another vote for the MLE.

What I find tragic about Sheed is that there’s no reason, with his skills, he shouldn’t be in the HoF. The problem is that he only wanted to use them when he thought convenient.

The LA Times thinks it’s unlikely that the Lakers will retain both Odom and Ariza this summer. The Lakers have $74 million in salary locked up in only eight players next season, so it’ll be tough to keep them both around. If we deal Tay (or even if we don’t), I think Ariza could fill a role well for the Pistons.

Besides, we already know he’s a Bad Boy at heart…

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3966302

brgulker +1

8 mil to play next year? I’d rather pay AI that sum just so we’d have someone to blame when we tankfor the snd straight year…scratch that, let’s pay pimp daddy Primoz 4mil just so he’d….you know…pimp our style.

If he is serious than he’s definately played his last NBA game

Got myself thinking of what ol’ primoz has been up to…not much it seems:
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?clubcode=rom&pcode=AGH

sheed looking for 8 million DOLLARS to shoot 8 million THREE POINTERS. just epinion

Credit to Sheed: Start high and work your way down.

I can see the Hornet imploding. Scott is rumored to be going to SacTown. They were at the WCF last year I believe. Had some injuries and the trade debacle this year. Seems to have a decent relationship with CP3 and their going to let this guy walk? Because of money? I don’t think trades can be made prior to 1-Jul, but once the lottery order is known, I expect to see alot of “confirmed” rumors regarding trades.

I haven’t seen anyone comment here in a while, but what abut Klieza from Den? I think he’s an unRFA since he didn’t sign/Den pulled offer last Oct. Gotta think he’s a bit pissed about that. Decent stroke and could be a very servicable backup 3 or 2 and is only 24. Any thoughts DBB?

Seems like I’ve seen Kleiza explode a handful of times, to the point where it made me say, “Wait, this guy is coming off someone’s BENCH?” But then a couple of my Denver friends, who watch him every day, say that he’s maddeningly inconsistent and disappears on defense.

Either way, at least as a backup SF/SG, I think he’d be money. He can shoot the 3, he can play above the rim, and like you said, he’s very young. If I had to choose between Kleiza at $3Mil and Ariza at MLE money, I’d take Kleiza f’SHO.

And Sheed’s nucking futs if he thinks he’s even sniffing $8Mil a year this offseason.

With Klieza off the bench at 3M for 4 years, yeah and agree with you about Ariza. Ariza will be 24 this year also but other than defense, for him to be really effective we’ve got to be a more running team. Which I heard we want to be next year. If we can part with Amir, then I think Ariza at 4-5M for 3 years would not give me much heartburn, even though that’s close to MLE.

I think Sheed put that out there so as not to be associated with any rumors to Charlotte. He can always say after signing with Bos, Orl or SA that hey, L. Brown never contacted me. Plus, I think it’s a signal to Joe D should he be a part of a sign-n-trade, though I doubt that would ever happen. Of course, a Wallace-for-Wallace Charlotte sign-n-trade with fillers thrown in. Hmmm?

I could see Orl not resigning Hedo and somehow working on getting Sheed there. He’d replace their 3 pt shooting of Hedo, matchup with PF better. Throw in Nelson driving and Lee at the 2, that’s not a bad lineup. You’ve got Pietrus, Reddick and Alston coming off the bench for speed/scoring.

Some guy we’ve never heard of says he’s heard something from a friend of ’Sheed’s? Let’s not go overboard here. . . . .

What’s going to happen to NeedforSheed.com now that Rasheed is leaving Detroit? lol

Fadel:

Given the right trade, maybe DesireForStoudamire?

How is Trevor Ariza going to defend Lebron, Pierce, or the next crop of guys like Granger and Beasley? We need SIZE/POWER at the SF in the east, not finesse. We’ve learned that lesson three seasons in a row, and now we’re talking about taking a lighter, shorter version of Tayshaun…

Ariza, Prince and Battier are solid, defensive PFs. But their games are much better suited to the Western Conference. In the east, size is paramount at the 3. If you can’t push back with size and strength on an opposing 3, you won’t help an EC playoff team.

There are better options for a solid, EC-ready SF this season and next in free agency. If we can’t get Artest, Odom, Williams or Marion this year, I think we should wait a year. If we move Prince, our hand will be forced early, but I cannot see how Ariza makes us more competitive given the nature of the SF spot in our conference.

MP: Artest ain’t coming to Det. I think he stays in Houston. Odom is not a create defender of quicker 3’s. His whole ability is to post up small 3’s and outquick slower 4. Williams (Marvin) I guess I missed the promo about his defensive prowess. Marion: like but he’s looking for some sizeable coinage. Not within our price range I think.

what about bringing back memo? he held it down before sheed got there and if he can stay healthy he could hold down that spot for another good 4 years.

@MB:
Yeah, Artest is a pipe dream, but you never know with that crazy bastard. For all we know, he might retire and take up professional curling. In all, I understand the negatives on the players I listed, just still struggling to understand the improvement that Ariza represents against players of size and strength.

@MP: Artest. . .“pipe” dream. . hmm??

As for Ariza, I think he’s got the length and has the quickness along with some hops to at least contest. Tay’s pushing 30 plus all the games/olympics over the past 6 years. Ariza will be 24 this year and 1/2 last year was a partial waste because of injury. Less miles on the odometer.

I would also like to see us to marginally matchup with Bron, Pierce as I don’t think we’ll ever “match up” since not even Pierce “matches” up with Bron, save perhaps scoring ability.

I’d rather put together a couple of other pieces and make teams matchup with us. As Doug Collins is found of saying, the NBA is abut matchups. Not that I take everything he says to heart.

Ariza is Tayshaun Prince West. That is a lateral move, and here’s my beer, pouring on your rug, to the people who think a curtain change makes your ratty house look more classy.

If you want him for age, then fine. This, however, isn’t all Tayshaun’s fault. I’m fine with what we have in him, for the 2-3 more years he can likely do it. If we get a big who can lift more balls into the hoop, then hey, Tayshaun is that perfect 4th option, just like he’s always been.

Does nobody remember the emergency service Tay provided against Tim Duncan in the ‘05 Finals? Or, is that just my imagination? Pistons were in foul trouble, and Brown put Tay on Timmay. Timmay pwned Tay. Basically, I knew Tay’s limits then. You people are just realizing this now?

I’m not defending his weak offense in the playoffs, nor am I defending his owning by guys like LeBron and Pierce. He can defend that, if he cares to do so, in the press.

If I was ‘Sheed, I wouldn’t want to come back here, to be honest. I’ve been played out of position @ the 5 with less-than-stellar help defense for 2 years now. I’m an elder statesman, not a go-to guy. The whole Portland thing is dead and buried … I’m never going to be the go-to guy. I can help you win a ’ship … why am I wasting my golden years in … DETROIT?!?

If we expect to ever get back into the Finals, then request a division change. LeBron is probably going to be a Cav 4ever … for all you young kids who were too young to experience Jordanbulls and the 90s … here’s your chance!

The bigger story should be, when Dice leaves, how do the Pistons cure their league-low defensive rebounding ability?

Amir, Maxiell, Tayshaun, Sheed … none of those guys know the art of the defensive rebound. Dice is the lone reliable rebounder on the defensive end.

@MB:
If I read you right, its that Ariza has the skillset Tay has: the length, the quickness, etc— but has less miles on the odometer. I still think that the problem isn’t energy, but size. It absolutely is about matchups, I just can’t see a shorter, lighter, younger Tayshaun giving us an improved matchup against Lebron and other strong SFs.

But me repeating that concern ain’t gonna do our discussion any good. I hope to be impressed and proven wrong should Ariza wind up in a Stones jersey. From my armchair GM position, I’ll still caution against it, but have a new reason to keep an eye on the guy in the rest of his playoff games.

Ariza is a phenomenal athlete and probably the best rebounder at the SF position (besides Lebron) in the game. Right now, Ariza is probably the better defender. But, Tay’s a better shooter, ball handler, passer and can score in different ways.

You don’t need a power SF to defend Lebron. The best way to stop him is to keep him shooting jump shots becuase that way he’s not getting his teammates open shots. You need someone long that can sag off him and you need a couple mobile big men that can rotate quickly and give Lebron the threat of a charge or blocked shot but are also quick enough to get back into position when Lebron passes the ball off. Speed and length are more important than strength. Just epinion.

QD: agreed with the jump shooting. Keeping him in front on the perimeter so he can’t dump/dish off to boobie, williams, etc.

I don’t mind Tay being the perfect 4 option. But over the past two years when we need him to be the 3 or 2 option, he has come up short. In part because of the D. But I can’t overlook the last two years playoffs where Tay has broken down.

As for the 05 Spurs: limits of guarding the MVP (I beleive) PF in 05 against a thin #3. I’d curse TD if he DIDN’T eat Tay alive. As for now, that’s close to 400 games, the Olympics and two yers of USA basketball ago. Not quite sure the comparison is accurate.

As for Sheed, I don’t blame him not coming back. So he played the 5. TD plays the 5 but is a 4. Big deal. It’s not like he went every nite and got bounced around in the paint. On the D end he could hold his own, but floated around the line. And if Dyess is the rebounding machine (which he was) why aren’t Sheed’s bebound numbers better if he spent most nites in the paint on the D end?

I do think you need a power SF to guard Pierce though. His game seems to be about using his muscle to get to the elbow and knocking down jumpers.

But, for the future, it’s about stopping Lebron and Dwight.

Sort of OT, but speaking of Tay, how come he didn’t post up at all this season? His post game is virtually unstoppable — his little hook shot is money — and yet we didn’t ever go to it. Cuuuuuurryyyyyyyy! shakes fist

From what I can see, Mike Miller (?!) is the best rebounding SF this season, as measured by total rebound percentage. His is 22.2%. James is second with 20.9%, then Matt Barnes at 20.7%, Carmelo at 20.1%, Marvin Williams at 19.4%, Posey at 18.9%, then Ariza at 17.9%. Tayshaun is 16.9%. Kleiza is 17.6%.

http://www.82games.com/0809/RESORT16.HTM

@QD:
But, for the future, it’s about stopping Lebron and Dwight.

And in a season or two, it could be about stopping Granger or Beasley in the playoffs as well, two SFs with a size advantage, the former of which can get calls like Lebron when his man can’t stay in front of him.

I blame Tayshaun’s disappearance more on the coaches and their lousy game plans than anyone else does. It’s like he’s all alone defending guys out there … Maxiell’s pickin’ boogers. Amir is busy selling Matt Watson’s t-shirts. Sheed is screaming @ the ref. Rip is running around with the 2, like they’re the only two guys playing the game.

Sure, Tay’s been ineffective against LeBron and Pierce, but I’d rather see LeBron get 38 and Tayshaun 0 than LeBron 68 while the other guy gets 20.

If you want blame, go after Joe Dumars. He put together the Work Boys … and he blew it up ahead of schedule … and I don’t buy that he’ll put it back together again.

Tayshaun was never a 2nd or 3rd option guy, and he never will be. You get Lamar Odom, minimum, and I wave goodbye to Prince.

I fucking hate Flip Saunders even more this year … simply because Curry made him look way better than he is. He was a shit coach, too.

@Sauce:
I’d rather see LeBron get 38 and Tayshaun 0 than LeBron 68 while the other guy gets 20.

It is absolutely not one or the other. I’d aim for a shade of gray— a solid, sizeable SF who can defend and put the round thing in the circular thing on the other end of the floor. If Lebron gets his 30+, the dickhead guarding him better be able to score the goddamn basketball.

I’ve always felt that Caron Butler’s ability to score the basketball, coupled with his serviceable defense on LeBron, was the reason why Washington, even when depleted, seemed to play well against the Cavs. More and more I think that might be the key— make LeBron work on defense. When he doesn’t have to worry about his man (the SF) scoring, he gets to float around and play “all-world free safety” like Pippen used to do, which is where all his highlight blocks and steals come from. The Celtics play the Cavs well because of the attention LeBron has to give Pierce. Carmelo’s Nuggets have dominated LeBron’s Cavs (with the exception of this year) mostly because of the work that LeBron has to do on the defensive end on Carmelo.

I think we’re missing a big point here: Bron’s a freak of nature. He’s averaging 30 playing against the best defenders, the worst and everyone inbetween each nite. Saying we’re going to “hold” James really means we let him get his 30 while the other guys don’t get theirs.

Shutting down a guy is just as much Tay vs. Bron, Joe D. vs. MJ, Artest/Battier vs. Kobe as it is the other 4 guys with rotations, help, etc. If our PG doesn’t keep the other PG from dribble penetration to hit a slashing PP or Bron, it doesn’t matter. If Sheed/Dyess/Kwame/take your pick don’t show/pop out on the screen and then fall back, it won’t matter who we have guarding Bron or Pierce.

What MarkButter in SoCal said about Tay, Bron, and Detroit’s bigs.

That shade of gray, you name that guy, Mike Payne.

Our defense declined somewhat this year as a team … Stuckey is pretty raw. At best, he’s an above-average defender. He doesn’t use his size properly, yet. He’s total deer-in-the-headlights.

Sauce: Stuck – agreed. I think as he becomes more familiar he can body up guys and not get called.

Mark: I sure hope so. I feel for him because he wants to hand-check and body-up and do all the physical things, but at times he doesn’t know when to lay off … he’s not taking cues from the refs on when to be more finesse-minded … and some days, he’s absolutely lost. Guys as average as can be can get their points, whether or not he’s fouling them. That’s more troubling to me, the off-nights, than anything else he does.

@sauce:
That shade of gray, you name that guy, Mike Payne.

I’ve listed the players I’d love to see at the 3 next season:
Odom, Artest, Marion. Save for Odom, I see long odds on signing the other two.

Then there’s Marvin Williams. He’s got size (6’9 / 240#s), he’s a better rebounder than Tay, has an amazing jumper and gets to the line. A lot. In the 3 games he played against Cleveland this year, he went to the line 21 times. He’s hard to defend because of his size and speed (sound familiar?) and both of those give him an advantage on defense, one he’s still developing.

With a rough glance at the shot charts he’s had against lebron, he’s forced lebron to take as many or more jumpers than layups in the last two seasons. While that may have a lot to do with Horford/Smith (who didn’t defend those layups too well), Williams made it very difficult for James to score on those jumpers.

On the other end of the floor, Williams wasn’t spectacular, scoring 15ppg against CLE in 34 minutes average.

The sample size is small and the data is rough at best, but if I’m Joe Dumars I’ve got scouts putting together a deep report on Marvin Williams. In the mean time, here’s Hollinger’s analysis:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2797&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayers%2fhollinger%3fplayerId%3d2797

Note that Williams injured his wrist toward the end of the season, so he has only played spot minutes in the playoffs. He will not start against CLE in game one as a result, but he may play heavy minutes and give us Detroiters a chance at our own armchair scout of the kid.

And for those interested, here’s a comparison of Ariza, Prince, Kleiza and Williams most recent season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=willima02&y1=2009&p2=princta01&y2=2009&p3=arizatr01&y3=2009&p4=kleizli01&y4=2009

turnovers, fouls and FTA / 36 may not be obvious, but are worth looking at.

doucheness.

Thanks for bringing those comparisons up, Mike. I was actually looking at some of those numbers earlier. What stood out to me was that Tayshaun is an underrated passer and commits few fouls and turnovers. Marvin Williams doesn’t turn the ball over or foul much himself. Williams is also the best rebounder of the four.

Also, Williams is the most efficient scorer of the group.

One more note: Williams didn’t really shoot the three at all last year (10 attempts) but this year he’s taken 155 attempts and hit on 35.5%, which is decent. It makes me think that his accuracy will continue to improve.

@birdman:
I can’t hyperlink it so I didn’t bring it up, but you should look up his most recent season in NBA HotSpots. Pretty unreal:
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

(and, and Williams is also the youngest of those four)

Mike Payne, that douche link is just terrible in a perfect way. I hate guys like him.

I’ve had this same argument with Matt Watson, and he likes to call out Prince too. I disagree with both of you. You guys seem to feel cheated that he’s not at least a 2nd option, and I don’t agree that we need a 2nd option @ the 3. The 3 is not broken.

I posed the same argument with Matt, and I am pretty sure Odom came up … I’ve challenged both of you, and that’s satisfactory enough … Odom, at least. None of this Ariza talk, no crappy defending-3s that score a lot of points, no uptempo. If I liked uptempo, I’d watch And-1 mixtapes, attend Globetrotter games, and be the world’s biggest Steve Nash fan.

@Sauce:
Yes, I’m not interested in Ariza. I’d prefer Odom there. I think Williams could be a surprising fit for our needs. I’d love to see Ron Artest celebrate his Palace Piston debut by buying the entire stadium a beer.

As for Prince, I don’t care that he’s not at least a second option. I don’t feel cheated. I’m furious. Its not a “witch hunt” as you said in the other thread— its a fact, plain and simple, that Tayshaun was the weakest player every season in the series that ended each season. THREE TIMES IN A ROW.

People can complain about help defense, they can complain about Lebron being Impossible, but utlimately it is Tayshaun who is accountable for his bullshit defense and inability to score when it really matters.

He can be effective in the Western Conference for seasons to come. He can shut down all the finesse 2’s and 3’s there on a different team. In Detroit, he’s the only player that remains in a Pistons uniform that is a liability when it really matters. Next to adding a solid big, my main concern is that by 2010-11, Tayshaun Prince is no longer our starting SF. Whether he’s moved elsewhere or to our bench, that’s what needs to happen.

Ohad, what do you think of Omri Cassipi?

If the Pistons get Ariza then you let Tayshaun split his time between SF and SG. Tay coming as the help defense on LeBron with Ariza covering him straight is going to be a lot better than Rip coming. Tay’s long arms can effect jump shots. I like Tay and Ariza on the court at the same time with MFWB at PG.

I think Tay is also being unfairly pointed at. But, when you’re talking about Bron & PP, where else you gonna start? Fair or not. But I also think everyone’s stats this year have to reflect the abject failure of us not having an offense. You can’t take a new coach, practice sets in training camp and then fuck around with an almost entirely new offense beginning basically opening nite and then change back to the training camp offense mid-March and expect everything to be Okay.

If anything, and I think it’s probably former player to current player, is that we didn’t call out AI. We all saw this coming on Nov-4. Class is nice in the beginning and only good in the end when your dealing with high falutin ladies, but the AI saga went on too long and distracted everybody. It had to be a bitch of a lockerroom and there had to be side taken by everyone.

On the bright side, opening night is only 178 days away !!

MarkButter:

Yeah, but us Pistons fans aren’t used to quite so many days between being eliminated and opening day next season.

TJ: I hear ya. Hell, my wife has all kinds of things I can now work on since the ‘stones aren’t on. the bright side is more motorcycle time. though I’d rather be watching another O’brien trophy being raised in the palace.

Rick Adelman did a great job in Game One. That defense that the Rockets played was phenomenal. And Aaron Brooks is going to relegate DFish to the bench very soon. He’s too quick. He dropped in the draft because he was considered a ballhog that couldn’t run the point. Makes me take a second look at Jeff Teague.

MarkButter:

Turns out there is nice weather outside on weekend afternoons in early May. . . .

Michael may give Sheed $8 million. Brown and Sheed have a really good relationship and Sheed would love to return to North Carolina to finish his career.

Atlanta not doing any better than Detroit vs. the Cavs tonight.

I think Marvin Williams is the way to go he’s got the size , can shoot and best of all he’s 22 and has alot of upside , sure we can get Odom but he’s like what 29-30 whats the point of redoing our team’s core if were selling off pieces of them by the time were ready to compete for the ECF.

Tay is only a fraction of the problem with the Stones D. Unless Joe is planning on using him in a trade for a star, keep him. Our bigs are whats killing us, ever since we lost our anchor Big Ben. Two frontcourt guys with one being a hyperactive defensive ninja is what we ideally need. Of course, we wont get that as I have this sick feeling that Joe is aiming for Ben Gordon.
I really hope I’m wrong.

Gordon isn’t the superstar Dumars wants. If we pick him up, it’ll be to compliment the other guy(s). Who I don’t know.

Anyone watching Denver/Dallas? Dallas totally flew under my radar this year because I haven’t paid any attention to them at all, but Dirk is good at the game of basketball. And the Birdman just got the awesomest ovation when he checked into the game.

Dallas sure caem back strong this year. For awhile it looked to me like Josh Howard was on the block, but the team is resilient and formidable.

Fair enough, Mike. I just don’t feel that way about Tayshaun.

Now, get me a bunch of sound bytes in which Tayshaun vehemently defends Allen Iverson, and I’m with you. Throw the bum out!

My fear is that the players sided with Allen … Rasheed, most so. Fuck that noise. Millionaires’ tears. Boo fuckin’ hoo.

Also, I don’t believe Tayshaun will do shit in an uptempo system. He’s too slow @ the 3. He’s too weak @ the 4. That was why Dunleavy got selected ahead of him. He’s the perfect half-court defensive-minded 4th option, like he’s always been. He had one bad year, and he hasn’t been shitting on everyone and everything, unless of course I’m missing sound bytes where he’s laughing off the city, the fans, his teammates, et cetera.

Also, I’m not going to beat myself up about the Pistons getting slaughtered by Cleveland. They are that fantastic. It’s a foregone conclusion, to me, Cleveland vs. the Lakers in the Finals. I’m sure they’ll rig it to at least 6 games.

That doesn’t mean this team didn’t play well, this year. By championship standards, they sucked. Average is not good enough. Championship is not good enough. Championships? Now you’re talkin.’

I really hope the Birdman is off the drugs now. He looks the kind of guy that SHOULD get tested.

Fair enough, Sauce. That’s the nice thing about Summer DBB. The die-harders can have a civil disagreement and respect eachother’s opinions. Very different from the regular season when the yahoo morons come out of the woodwork.

I agree about Cleveland. They are SCARY. As for LA though? I’m not so sure. I’ll bet on Denver or Houston equally with LA. In fact, if I had some extra dough right now (I don’t) I’d put my money on both.

I might even bet that LA will be out this round. In 6.

Unless someone on this Denver team has a massive meltdown, I can see them reaching the finals. Chauncey is like a master puppeteer, pulling all the strings and controlling the game. If only we had a point guard like that.

I am the doubting Thomas of Joe Dumars. Show me this man’s stigmata. Otherwise … he talked about everyone being expendable. I think Joe’s the most expendable one of the bunch.

I’m a Lakers fan … and I think I’m going to be a bigger Lakers fan these next few seasons. I don’t think Detroit’s doing anything that isn’t headed to a long stretch in the doghouse.

That being said, I think Denver or Houston could bother them. Kobe will get the calls over either team, however. This isn’t the Finals, and that Lakers team isn’t in the same inner disarray as the ‘04 club. They’re mean … that series last year, that was some bullshit. I fucking hate the riggems that put the C’s on top. Fuck David Stern with a rusty Nielsen remote.

OH YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME RED WINGS

JESUS CHRIST CAN THIS CITY HAVE A DECENT MOMENT INSTEAD OF CONSTANT DISAPPOINTMENT?!?

It remains to be seen how the Cavs do against the other top-tier teams, but with that said, going by how he’s playing right now, Lebron looks like he’s officially entered the period of his career where only an all-time great team is going to have a chance to take him down.

IMO, Lebron’s current ridiculous level of play makes it most important for us to invest as much as possible in the PF/C positions, and PG as well, rather than spending serious money on a SF/SG to match-up with him. If Lebron stays at this level, nobody is going to come close to containing him.

This connects with what I see as the two weaknesses that the Cavs will have going forward: 1) they don’t have a lot of athleticism in their frontcourt (especially if Varejao signs somewhere else), 2) their backcourt is a little short and slight. That’s basically it. Aside from that, they defend, rebound, pass and shoot well.

IMO, Stuckey is a decent start toward having a backcourt that can attack the Cavs guards, but just Stuckey isn’t enough, as the Cavs will then stick Lebron on him, the important thing is to have a 2nd and a 3rd big, scoring/power guard who can come in and force the Cavs into poor match-ups (for them). More importantly, an athletic, elite big man is really gonna be the only way to beat the Lebrons. Yeah, that’s not really news, and elite big men are probably the hardest players to get your hands on, but still, any combination of moves and acquisitions that doesn’t end with us getting a Bosh-level PF/C (or Amare, I’m a fan of his and think he could be devastating in the East) is pretty much fools gold.

Cleveland was going to be scary-good once they got rid of relying on guys like Eric Snow. They never had a proper backcourt until Mo Williams came to their team.

Cleveland was going to be scary-good once they got rid of relying on guys like Eric Snow. They never had a proper backcourt until Mo Williams came to their team.

Artest will self-destruct before the end of the series. Lakers will move on. But, I was very impressed with the Rockets defense that first game. And Aaron Brooks has them scared.

Heard an interview with Gasol on the radio today. I’m really impressed with how smart he is. He breaks down the game at a level I don’t hear from other players, coaches or analysts.

Denver’s defense gambles a lot. I think the Lakers will be able to pick it apart pretty easily.

Fucking bullshit.

Goddamn NHL refs are almost as stupid and clueless as the NBA. The dipshit ref cost the Wings a tie. I agree with Redmond, this was an exhibition in fucking bullshit.

YOU HAVE ONE THING TO DO IN THIS WORLD YOU ZEBRA COCKSUCKERS, AND YOU DON’T EVEN DO THAT WELL. YOU ARE FRIENDS TO NO ONE.

Sauce – I don’t know how I can sleep after this. I’m so wound up I want to fight Emilio Estevez.

I would fight Chuck Norris, Forty, and I’m not even a big hockey fan. That’s playoff hockey reffing? That is a bush league error that jackass made. That should be his last NHL game.

Dave Bing is the new mayor of Detroit:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4143798

Hell, fucking, yes PS. That is awesome news!! I don’t live within hundreds of miles of Detroit, but I am so happy for that city and that ex-Piston.

WTG Detroit. Special election that costs millions of dollars for a mayor who will have to run again in November. Meanwhile, your idiot city council is basically shooing away money because they want to keep their secret Cobo deals to themselves. Good job, Detroit. You keep walkin’ on those two left feet.

Sauce is right—the special election to replace Kirkpatrick cost a lot of money, and changing mayors for a few months (or a few years, pending the results in November) probably won’t save Detroit. But it’s great to see a former Piston win something.

…go Nuggets!

so i was like.. eeeemmmmeeeeeeliooooooo

@QD – I think Omri casspi has a lot of potential and he’s still very young.
He’s really hot blooded. good defender and he gets in peoples’ faces about fouls and stuff. really takes the game to heart. He shoots the three well (45%) and the two (60% but it’s 70% in the israeli league which is easier for him to get phisycal and dunk in and 50% in the euroleague which is more challenging) and around 80% from the free throw line with 4 rpg and 1 apg and spg.
He is a good player. Personally i think he’s the best israeli player in our league.
He’s worth a summer camp invitation but i don’t think he’ll be ready to go in the second round. i think he’ll get into thedraft only if he gets a promise from a team to go in the first round…

Sure, except that his factories aren’t up to code safety-wise:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090207/METRO/902070363/1014/METRO03

and he lied about having an MBA:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3969864

Cockrel is not a great decision maker, but he is a decent person, and thats all you need if you have smart people around you.

I meant that Cockrel doesn’t make fast or sweeping decisions well, of course. Not that he can’t make them at all.

Every time I try to get in to hockey something really bad happens to the Wings. The last time I got in to it was in 2005, just in time to see Yzerman get a puck in the eye… Then of course came the lockout.

Anyways Sheed better work on his golf skills, because no one will give him that kind of money. As I said in another thread his decline doesn’t surprise me because he’s a 34 year old finesse player. Without his athleticism all he can do is shoot jumpers on offense and his defense is limited to standing around with his arms up. Thanks for the memories Sheed, but barring a miraculous comeback your days as an impact player are over.

’Sheed could be more, he chooses not to.

I don’t put much stock into SLAM’s story or his mystery “friend”.

But Rasheed’s drive to succeed is limited. If you’d sooner retire at his age during such an economic shitstorm, your love of the game is no longer intact.

Doesn’t sound consistent with a guy who said he’d work a 9 to 5 if he had to, just a few months back.

@ Skylar: “Doesn’t sound consistent with a guy who said he’d work a 9 to 5 if he had to, just a few months back.”

As we’re finding out, that was during the campaign. Plus, Sheed can make a nice living working 9-5 using hydroponics. But on a serious note, we all refer back to MC’s presser last summer and Sheed being there. WTF for? Lip service.

He’s got his contract from Portland which I think was his original DC contract resign when CWebb was there. He got 45 Large on his resign in 04. I think Sheed can weather this economic shitstorm. Plus in order to get to MLE, you can’t start there as an opening bargaining position. Specifically not anyone shooting below 35% from the arc (I guessed on the percentage, too lazy to look it up but I’d be surprised if it’s much more than that).

Any Mr. Chi City fans here? Here’s Mr. Chi City at a Bulls Game:
http://digg.com/d1qOKK

(warning: language)

“Hey Stephon— your head tattoo SUCKS!! Don’t act like you don’t hear me!”

@MBSC – Sounds about right. I totally buy that Sheed’s buds are telling anyone who’ll listen that he’s not looking for any veteran’s minimum for a contender – that he’s wanting a real paycheck. Smart too. If Sheed said that, he’d be branded only caring about money, a la Boozer. Going this route, he’s got plausible deniability on his side.

Good stuff, MP.

“I would never put a tattoo on my HEAD!”

Damn you, Mike Payne! I just spent an hour watching Mr. Chi City videos!

@PS:
Hahahaha— they’re great, aren’t they? One of my favorites is the Chi City Destroys his Parking Ticket vid. Comic Gold:
http://digg.com/d1mOj2

You don’t have to provide a link—I watched all of them.

Damn you, Mike Payne!

i am really liking the nuggets. it is nice to root for a team that uses the fourth quarter to go for the kill rather than choke.

i hate lebron. i hate the adds. i hate the chalk throwing. i hate the and ones. i hate the 2007 conference finals. i hate the way useful role players mysteriously materialize in cleveland uniforms while joe d. does nothing but trade chauncey and hire curry. i hate when lebron complains about the rare call which goes against him. i hate cav fans chanting beat detroit as if it is 2006. i hate cav fans occupying the palace. i hate waiting for the cavs game to end last night and the lebron orgasm to be over with. i hate lebron.
i am rooting for lebron to lose.
i don’t think he will handle it well.

please anybody beat lebron.

i hate ben wallace yukking it up with lebron on the bench. doesn’t he feel a little foolish?

my dream is chauncey beating lebron in the finals. it is just a dream.

I’m rooting for…

a.) Chauncey Billups (to at least make it 7 CFs)

b.) Whoever is playing Boston

If it ends up being Kobe v. Lebron in the Finals as David Stern intends. I will root for whoever’s losing.

Kobe and the Pau Gasol Grand Larceny are my team, since I don’t think Karl can get them to the finals, and I despise CLE.

One of the reasons i think joe hasn’t done more to help this team in the past is he’s a victim of his own sucess. When your team has won it all and is beating the hell outa everyone ,short of winning the title every year, GM’s are pretty reluctant help you in any way. I think thats at least part of the reason none of these one sided trades have come our way .For the record I hate Lebrons guts even more then I hated Jordan’s, I’m sick of his I’m entitled attitude and would like nothing better then then to see someone crack one of his ribs on one of his drives..Almost as much as I like to hear about someone cracking a few of the commisioners ribs for fucking around with the rules ever damn year until he made it impossible for anyone to mess with one of his golden boys.Finaly I like to reset the rules back to the late 70’s early 80’s , those were the days.

Odom kind of got owned by Scola in the post. His defense has been extolled quite a bit here over the past few days, but after seeing his inability to D up Scola I would only want him on my team if he was played at the three exclusively.

Also, I’ve always thought he disappeared/choked in big games/series. It will be interesting to see what he does now that Houston has made this a series.

In game 1 he had 9 points (50% FG/17% FT) and 5 rebounds in 31 minutes.

Conversely, Artest is playing like he wants to be FPRA. Actually, this probably means he’ll be staying in Houston, but I would totally welcome him if he wanted to come here.

I don’t want Odom on the Pistons. Period. He’s 100% punk. Watching the Houston vs. Lakers game I can’t help but hate him, and in combination with Fisher and Vujacic I actually have found myself hating the Lakers as a whole, even though I’ve always enjoyed watching them play.

FPRA (future Piston Ron Artest) also showing why he’s FPRA (former Pacer Ron Artest). I know he got elbowed, but you can’t get tossed there. The guy is a lunatic.

Okay, anyone who had Ron Artest on their wish list better have crossed his name off after watching that post-game interview. There’s no way you invest any kind of money on that level of crazy.

Colin, I was the only one who extolled Odom’s defensive virtues. I only caught the end of the game, but he’s great on the pick and roll because he’s long and quick so he can show and recover. Plus, he’s a good shotblocker for a PF.

But, his weakness is guarding the post. And from your comment, it sounds like he got owned tonight. Maybe I should temper my optimism about him. Many have been teased by the skills of Lamar Odom only to be let down.

Kenny Smith made a good point about how the Rockets surrounded Yao with pitbulls (Landry, Scola, Battier, Artest, Hayes). I hope that whoever Dumars gets is a pitbull. It was so fun watching the Rockets defense in Game One. It reminded me of the LB era Pistons. I hope they get back to that.

@QD:
Okay, anyone who had Ron Artest on their wish list better have crossed his name off after watching that post-game interview. There’s no way you invest any kind of money on that level of crazy.

Crazy + Passionate > Weak + Disappearing

And the last time we made moves for Crazy, it worked out pretty well.

Did you see the interview?

The only thing I really like in comparison to the 1980s, for rules … I like zones. Imagine if a zone was illegal, today … LeBron wouldn’t have killed us with 38. Try 70.

This is the same guy that punched Rip in the balls for no reason at the end of a tightly contested closeout game. No team will win a title with him because he will self-sabotage in a way that would make Sheed and Mike Tyson proud.

Dude was talking about people getting stabbed to death with lead table legs!

I missed the post-game, but I didn’t think Artest deserved to get thrown for what he did. I don’t blame the refs for getting him out of the game before he really lost it, but all he really deserved was a tech (imo).

QD: I actually don’t think that you were the only one extolling Odom’s defense. I seem to remember others (I have no proof!) saying or at least implying that Odom was a better defender than Boozer. He very well may be when it comes to PnR Defense, but not being able to check Luis Scola is very concerning. I must admit that I am predisposed to dislike Odom and after the douchey antics he pulled tonight, I pretty much hate him. Also, I don’t think he made a single shot after that whole flare up with Scola. Basically, I think he’s a choke ass B*tch. And I don’t think I’ve ever said that about anyone before.

I just saw that Artest interview for the first time. Jesus. If he really saw a friend murdered by table leg that would explain a lot.

i like ron artest’s look. his physique. his short socks. his black shoes. his weird haircut. whoever said mike tyson was on to something. he is a great player. is he not the reason houston is where they are right now rather thane gone fishin?
  bring ron artest to the palace.

i haven’t seen the table legs interview. but it sounds memorable.

i bet nba.com buries the post game. wouldn’t it be funny if artest was the enforcer to spoil the coronation of bron-bron? what would david stern do?

for anyone who wants to watch the ronnie interview…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlunFeZ35Lc

Thanks for the link, but that clip doesn’t show crazy and it doesn’t have anything about anybody getting killed with a table leg. So, what was edited out?

I’m sorry if you DON’T want him in a Pistons’ uni after those comments you’re the one who’s batshit crazy. Barkley’s comments after the interview were spot on. That’s a “foxhole” guy— you want him in the trenches with you.

We want somebody to intimidate Bron-bron? This is the guy. And can you believe the restraint? I’m sold. I was already sold, but I’m infinitely more sold after that game. Even in a loss, I say kudos to Houston. They play tough for 48 minutes, every night. The Lakers just played dirty, not tough— not sustainable. Even if the Lakers win this series (which I think they will), they’ll have a Denver team waiting for them that is as tough and mean as the Rockets AND as explosive offensively as the Lakers themselves.

I think a “Chauncey vs. LeBron” NBA Finals is a lot more likely than people think.

Here’s a link (it’s the bottom video, though both are great and have great commentary by the Chuckster afterward):

http://youbeenblinded.com/video-ron-artest-speaks-on-game-2-ejection-and-kobe-bryant/3054

Yeah i dont know about you guys but other then the table leg thing Ron was making complete sence and explained the siuation perfectly. ’m past the brawl and whats Ron has done in the passed, at this point I would much rather hm as our 3 then Tayshaun.

Joel:

Thanks for the link. I’m kind of amazed that no reporter, after hearing that table leg story, interrupted and said something like, “wait, WHAT?”

@Joel: Yeah, Ron’s interview is a thing of beauty. I watched it live last night and just watched the clips again from your link, and I don’t know how anyone can see that and not want him on the Pistons. Even the “table leg,” part made a strange amount of sense in the moment. Ron’s crazy, but his mind is logical in its own way.

@Gabe

Plus, the guy’s only 29, so we throw him something like 4 years at $7mil/yr, FRONTLOADED. We get him for the last 4 years of his “peak” and hopefully he can mold our younger wing players in his own image by the time he’s gone. Then by the time he’s losing his effectiveness, he’s either very affordable or a very attractive trade piece. Win-win.

I don’t know about Ron Artest being crazy, I think he has asbergers syndrome.

If he’d get grimey on the floor for Detroit I’d want him, I doubt Dumars would bring him here though.

@Skylar

You might have hit it head-on with Aspergers. I have a younger cousin who’s in the less-severe autism/Aspergers window, and you can definitely see similarities. General social “weirdness,” difficulty with relating/empathy, seemingly random behavior, even the hurried/jumbled speech. He’s definitely very high-functioning, almost idiot-savant, but that does make scary good sense that Artest has at least some mild Asperger’s characteristics.

Somebody else suggested it in another thread, but really all Artest would have to do for everyone in Detroit to love him is buy EVERYONE over 21 at his first home game a beer. They could announce it after player introductions. People would eat that shit UP.

If Dumars brings in Artest, that shuts up the detractor contingent for next season at least, so I guess I could kinda see it.

Ron Artest is one of those guys who looks way better on paper than in your team’s jersey. He’s even more of a black hole on offense than Iverson was. I don’t mind the craziness at all. You can always have one crazy guy on your roster and be fine – it’s when you have more than one that things go bad. But I just think he is a very very bad fit for us offensively.

But I do think the calls for Artest hits a solid point – we need a Garnett. We need a leader who rallies the team, holds guys accountable, and plays with passion. There aren’t a ton of guys like that out there.

I haven’t seen the “black hole” thing on offense from Artest lately. Yeah, he does like to run the point a little too often, but especially in the playoffs so far he’s been spectacular. He’s hitting jump shots, drawing fouls, and assisting an above-average rate too. Not to mention he’s always good for 5 rebounds to boot. Even in the games where his shot wasn’t falling (Game 5 vs. Portland), he still D’s up the other team’s stud and he ups his assist totals (9). I would much rather have to deal with Artest’s occasional offensive bullishness than Tayshaun’s complete non-existence.

ron artest is the reason the rockets are still playing. he is the difference between this year rockets and the last two years. he is a perfect match for them but would be great for pistons too!. do something joe!

chuck says artest is not first on the list of people you want to mess with.

artest is a hoot but i still haven’t seen the table leg part of the interview.

The gist of the “table leg story” is that during a playground game sometime during Artest’s youth, things got heated and somehow a wooden table leg was ripped off a table, brought into the fray, and somehow stabbed through someone’s heart— the kid died there on the court. This was part of Ron’s answer when he was asked about physical/heated play. Holy. Shit.

I don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Who doesn’t have a broken-table-leg-through-the-heart-die-in-front-of-you-on-a-basketball-court story? We’ve all been there. We are all Ron Artest.

Table leg don’t lie?

+1 MP. Indeed, we are all Ron Artest.

Don’t get me wrong. I love Artest’s game. He’s a tough physical defender and his offense reminds me of Adrian Dantley with three point range. Although, the person who said he can be a black hole is right.

But, I don’t think he can be counted on to win it all. I think he’ll do something to self-sabotage himself the same way Rasheed does.

As getting kicked out last night, it was total bs. He was the one that got fouled. The thing that always scares me about Artest is how calm he is. It’s not like Kobe elbowed him and he went nuts. Kobe elbowed him, he complained to the refs, then jogged over to Kobe and got in his face. It’s like when he punched Rip in the balls. There was no emotion on his face.

He’s not an out of control thug like Stephen Jackson (who was the real person to blame in that Palace Brawl). The scary thing about Artest is that he’s not acting out of emotion.

@QD:

Artest basically proved your point in his postgame comments last night; his reaction to Kobe was completely strategic and not out of emotion. That earns him points in my book.

We wouldn’t be getting Artest to carry the offense, or to count on him to win it all. We’d need him to do exactly what he does best: tenacious defender, emotional leader, and maybe 3rd option on offense, with Rip (or whoever our 2-guard ends up being) as the first option, and our second option being our scoring 4/5 we acquire this summer through FA/trade.

Damnit Manny, I had one team playing well and then you go and get suspended.

Well, if Arnie Kander has some magic herbs that can deal with bi-polar disorder then…

Sure he’s a little crazy, but it seems as though he’s matured enough to the point where he won’t be detrimental to his organization. He’s a solid teammate, an emotional leader, and won’t give up on his crew. He comes to work every single day with no ego. He’s a competitor and lives for defending the other team’s best player. He has no problem taking a back seat to 2 or 3 of his teammates and taking a reduced role. Even if his production takes a hit with age, he would happily coming off the bench and serve as a role player.

As long as we’re not expecting him to carry the offense, and keep a few solid-charactered, veteran leaders around him, I really don’t see what there isn’t to like.

Like I said before, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the crazy. I’m not worried about him and getting himself suspended in a vital point – but even if, that’s something you’ve got to be prepared for when you’ve got a ticking bomb like Artest. You make it so you can survive without him. And we’d be able to. We’d still have Stuck, Rip, and major free agent signing yet to be named as go-to guys offensively and Tay (or Afflalo if we were to move Tay in favor of Artest) as our defensive stopper. And as far as his attitude goes, I love this quote: “I went over there with the intention of telling Kobe, ’You’re hitting the wrong person. Don’t you know you’re hitting Ron Artest?’” Bad. Ass.

But I can’t see him fitting in alongside Stuck and Rip. Those possessions that he just kills by dribbling it 20 seconds. And I guess I can never stand guys who are able to shoot their team out of a game.

When you have a good team around him, I think Artest is the type of volatile personality that puts teams over the proverbial “hump.” Remember that Sacramento team from 2 years ago? The one that actually gave San Antonio a fit in Round 1 and took them to six games? How about the Indiana team we beat in ‘04? They were a great team, built just like the Pistons, and just had a couple breaks go the wrong way. They looked even BETTER in ’05— Artest was averaging like 25ppg through the first 7 games— and were the favorites in the East again (with Miami). Who knows what that team could have done had the Palace Brawl not happened. Obviously, it was of his own doing, but still, you have to think. Now we have this Rockets team which is again constructed in the Pistons/Pacers mold, and look what they’re doing. Are they going to beat LA? I don’t think so. Maybe take them to seven (maybe). But you’re out of your mind if you think the Rockets even SNIFF the second round (or the first round for that matter) without Artest. He truly is a complete and utterly unique talent and I think he’d relish the opportunity to bring the “D” back to Detroit Basketball. He lives for that tough-minded, old-school brand of basketball and no franchise embodies it like the Pistons.

And Stuck not being able to coexist with Artest because of the “dribbling for 20 seconds” problem would be the most extreme case of pot/kettle syndrome I’ve ever heard of. At least Artest usually makes something happen.

I agree with Shinons. You can’t just say that Artest doesn’t have to be the focal point of the offense, he can focus on defense. HE believes he should be the focal point of the offense (and he’s just talented enough to be able to justify that in his mind).

He DOES have an ego (although not in the conventional sense). He IS a little selfish. I’m not saying he hasn’t changed. But, this is the same guy that wanted to take time off during the season to work on a hip-hop album. And, I’ll say it again, took a cheap shot on a player in the final minutes of a tightly contested playoff game six. Not even Sheed would do something that stupid.

I second QD. I’m not necessarily opposed to FPRA, but let’s see how he handles these next few games before we start falling all over ourselves.

OT: Why would there be a table on a playground basketball court? I think Artest is confusing his memories with an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Boom.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/15/nyregion/player-dies-in-stabbing-at-basketball-game.html

1991. That would make Artest 12 years old at the time?

Why do we keep wishing for guys like Ron Artest and Allen Iverson? Are we bored with quiet, under-appreciated success? Flaming out in style seems to be the in thing right now. Count me out of that … I live in Detroit. That shit is an every-day reality, my whole life.

I don’t know of anybody who “wished” for Allen Iverson. There are people who tried a “glass half full” approach in the few weeks after the trade first happened, but I can’t think of one instance where any Pistons fan that I know ever “wished” for Allen Iverson. I’ve “wished” for Kobe (and we got him for Rip+Tay+Amir in November ’07, until he vetoed the trade). I “wished” for Carmelo last summer. Nobody “wished” for Allen Iverson.

If Artest was batshit crazy his first half-decade in the league, we’d all be clamoring for him on our team right now. Then again, we probably couldn’t afford him because his price-tag would no doubt be much higher than it is. The “crazy” is the only reason anybody can really give for not wanting him, but it’s one of the main reasons I do want him. I don’t care if he punched Rip in the nuts in a playoff game. Chris Paul punched a kid in the nuts in an ACC tourny game, but you’d all take Chris Paul in a heartbeat.

And does nobody remember Dennis Rodman? You know, the guy who married himself in drag? The guy who kicked a cameraman in the balls? The guy who sat Indian-style on the court while play was still going on? I remember a couple teams doing quite well with that guy playing for them.

“If Artest wasn’t batshit crazy…”

Every NBA player has an ego to some extent, but Artest doesn’t let his overtake him. Of course he thinks he’s capable of being the focal point of an offense, but he has yet to turn it into an issue on any ballclub he’s played on, and he certainly won’t begin now.

Yes, he can dominate the ball at times, he certainly isn’t a pass-first forward. But he’s still team-first. He took a reduced role earlier this season for the betterment of the team, and he certainly won’t have any problem doing that again later on in his career if necessary.

The role he’d have on the Pistons would be basically the same role he’s had throughout his career. He certainly wouldn’t be the focus of the offense, maybe the 2nd option, most likely the 3rd.

He’s grown as a player AND a person. Back in 2005, he still thought he was in Queens. It’s obvious he’s much more focused on winning now than he ever has been, and the Pistons could give him that chance, as long as we put the right pieces together.

Bullshit. People wanted Iverson here, in the past.

Detroit got rid of Rodman when they found him sleeping in the Palace parking lot with a loaded firearm, responding to people like he was on the ledge.

So, crazy is good here … to a point.

Permitting me to be reminding folks that first and foremost, Detroit needs new, quality players at the 4 and 5. Artest would be an interesting and probably useful addition, but we need a Bosh more than an Artest.

Bullshit. I don’t know anyone who ever wanted Iverson here, personally.

“So, crazy is good here… to a point.” — Exactly. Pretty sure Ron-Ron’s crazy peak is behind him. We’ll see how these next 3-5 games go though. Potentially explosive.

And Stuck not being able to coexist with Artest because of the "dribbling for 20 seconds" problem would be the most extreme case of pot/kettle syndrome I’ve ever heard of. At least Artest usually makes something happen.

Maybe if the pot is a second year point guard and the kettle is a small forward in his 10th year…

It’s a matter of tastes. I prefer guys who fit into a system, who are part of a unit. I don’t think Artest is that. Just my opinion. And for what it’s worth Joel, I think we just have totally different tastes in players – seems like every player whose name you throw out there, I shudder. Thabeet, Gordon, Artest, Bill Simmons… So we can just chalk it down to a matter of tastes.

My preference would be that we stayed with Tay and just added big men who wanted to control the paint. I don’t mind him disappearing in the playoffs – his job is the fourth scoring option. It’d certainly be nice to see him be more proactive at times and play the way he’s capable of on the offensive end, but he’s fourth in line in my books.

Thabeet — 7’3" and athletic. No ceiling whatsoever. A potentially elite defensive C with unrivaled speed and athleticism for his extreme size; we could do a lot worse, and not much better.

Gordon — I’m over him. If he’s a sixth man, you can’t even field a valid argument against him. But alas, he thinks he’s getting starter’s money and starter’s minutes. Like I said, over him.

Artest — the arguments have already been laid out; he’s the most “Deetroit Basketball”-type player in the NBA; if he weren’t (mildly) crazy, every Piston fan should be on his nuts.

Bill Simmons — witty, smart, insightful about a lot of things, not the least of which is sports; he’s a Boston homer, so that’s reason enough to hate the man, but his writing is fantastic and his podcast is equally great (see the latest time Adam Corolla visited); I would like to party with him, and that is a big barometer for me in passing judgments on people (as silly as it sounds)

Artest would be cheaper than Tay and he brings markedly more to the table on both ends of the court. Better offensive production, more steals, same rebounds, better defender, intensity and emotion through the roof (completely missing from the Pistons this year), etc. etc. Other than the “crazy,” I don’t see how there’s any comparison.

Simmons is campaigning for Minnesota’s GM position. He campaigned for Milwaukee’s last year. Simmons would be a very fan-friendly GM, though I’m not sure how successful he’d be. Simmons is one of my favorite writers; he’s entertaining and pretty knowledgeable. He’s way up there as far as NBA guys whose opinion I trust (behind Kelly Dwyer, John Hollinger and Henry Abbott and right around David Thorpe’s level).

I talked to several people IRL who were wanting Iverson here the last 3-4 years. Don’t tell me I didn’t have conversations I actually had, conversations that pissed me off then, well before this crap happened.

Simmons is a Boston homer. No matter how ‘great’ it is, it’s shit. He deserves to be beaten with bars of soap wrapped inside a Bird jersey. Fuck him and his family.

I don’t buy that the league would just immediately bust Manny for that many games without this being a recurring problem behind the scenes.

I know nothing about Manny’s situation, but the guy seems like he’s trying to tell everyone it’s a non-steroid, but I don’t buy that that’s what got him that long of a bust. I don’t know how the MLB is handling similar situations, I just feel that the guy isn’t being honest about what happened.

Of course Simmons is a homer. You just take that into consideration when you read. Obviously some may prefer that he tone that part down. But I don’t think it makes sense to hold it against him, any more that it would to dismiss Matt Watson’s writing because he’s a Pistons fan.

I’d prefer it isn’t there at all. That’s called being an awesome writer, when you work for a national outfit like ESPN.

The minute Matt Watson starts referencing Isiah Thomas every other paragraph while writing columns for ESPN as “The Sports Guy,” I’ll start insulting and discounting him, too.

With Thabeet, I preferred Cole Aldrich (before he announced he was out). Whether fair or not, when I hear “A potentially elite defensive C with unrivaled speed and athleticism for his extreme size” I can’t help but think DARKO!!! AH SHIT!!!

With Artest, like I’ve said this whole time – my problem isn’t with his crazy, my problem is with his game.

With Simmons, it’s not even his homerism that bothers me. I just get a huge “this guys head is so far up his own ass” feeling from him. Then last year, when every week he had a new column about the Patriots while completely neglecting the Celtics – especially with the Boston fan stereotype that they only root for predominantly white teams – that pushed him firmly into douche territory for me.

@Sauce:
The minute Matt Watson starts referencing Isiah Thomas every other paragraph while writing columns for ESPN as "The Sports Guy," I’ll start insulting and discounting him, too.

TRADE MATT WATSON NOW!

Bill Simmons’ newest column is actually about the Manny steroid allegations, and makes quite a few great points about the now-unfounded legitimacy of his beloved 2004 Red Sox team, including Big Papi’s dropoff, Nomar’s dropoff, Pedro’s dropoff, Millar’s random couple years of power, etc. etc. Good stuff.

“My preference would be that we stayed with Tay and just added big men who wanted to control the paint.”

I’m with Shinons on this one. I’m not opposed to trading Tay, but even if the Pistons got a “power” SF, you still need two athletic bigs patrolling the paint or that “power” SF is going to give up just as many points to Lebron as Tay did.

QD’s right. Tayshaun’s shortcomings can be largely erased by acquiring excellent, physical big men who play in the paint on offense and defense.

But if we could get Artest (or another low-salaried “power SF”), that would leave more money to sign some badass 4s and 5s.

One option that I think is actually realistic would be to bring on Artest or Marion for a contract in the $7 million range for the first year (which would save us $3 million from Tay) and move Tay to the Clippers for Camby or Kaman. That’d give us a strong SF, a center who could control the paint, and enough space to still add on a legit PF of your choice – Boozer, Brand, whoever.

I think that douchebag Simmons has reached his Boston quota for the lifetime.

If he wasn’t writing about The O.C. or Boston, the piece of shit would have nothing to say.

Fuck his father for having that twinkle in his eye.

I think Artest’s body of crazy-work makes him an auto-no. The guy doesn’t admit he has problems, or at least, he’s not honest about trying to be less crazy. Let that be someone else’s problem. Not everyone can be a Rasheed here. Let’s stop trying to heal lepers, my fucking arm has sores all over it thanks to that blind faith.

Shinons: Agreed. But I think Artest (and depending how the post season turns out for him/rockets) he’s looking at more. And you gotta believe Houston is going to find every way under the sun to keep him.

The thing that scares me about Marion is I believe his “defensive intensity” is in direct proportion to his “offensive pecking order / productivity.” Since he’s not running up and down the court with Nash I believe his prowess wanes.

It is going to be tough to improve both our offense and defense low post/paint at the same time with the same 2 or 3 guys. I do think Kaman fits that bill, whether as a 5 or a 4 in some spots.

As I’ve said before, you can spend practice time worrying about how to stop the other team or making them worry how to stop you. Very rarely can you do both at the same time. And let’s be honest, defense is alot more fun when you’re not worrying about how you’re going to score and when you’re winning. Or at worst being competitive every nite.

At the end of the day, you don’t stop Kobe or Bron. You make it very hard for them to score thru TEAM defense. And every once in awhile, you get lucky and they have an off nite. Nobody “stopped” Wilt, not even Russell. Russell wouldn’t have 11 rings if not for a host of other players, and they didn’t all just play offense.

Never been a big fan of Artest I think he’s too much of a headcase to justify what he might bring us ,but I also don’t think it could ever happen , The Davidson’s are pretty good owners, as owners go, but I’ve seen them bring anybody like as Artest into the palace and for good reason they like attitude problems, beside I think QD is right we need to focus on the 4 and the 5, now if there’s a 4 or a 5 thug out there i’m all for it.

Meant to say never seen .

Errr damn drugs , also meant to say ,they don’t like attitude problems, last post for me today.

I agree MB – which is pretty much why I’d just prefer staying with Tay.

I think we get AI, Starbury, Artest, Brian Williams and Rodman. We couldn’t be much more dysfunctional than we were this year but the entertainment value sky rockets.

Plus there’s the added excitement in the over/under pool of who snaps first. I think people would fill the Palace just from the “horrible accident” perspective.

I meant no offense to anyone who suffers problems with my above statement. Everybody is bi-polar. It’s just that some folks goal posts are wider apart than others.

It amazes me how Celtics fans go through life with green colored glasses. They think that the NBA is out to get them (huh?). They think Hinrich is a thug for boxing out Rondo too hard. And for attacking Rondo with his back.

I wonder how they’ll spin Alston’s suspension in light of Rondo throwing Hinrich into the scorer’s table and taking a shot to Brad Miller’s face.

What a buncha fuckin morons.

I don’t think I’d mind having Artest. Another thing about him that hasn’t been mentioned yet (I don’t think) is that he doesn’t rely solely on athleticism, so he might be able to produce at a decent level for a while yet. But I’d rather shore up the 4 and 5 before looking at the 3.

And I think trying to get a LeBron stopper is the wrong way to go. Let’s have better players at the 1, 2, 4, and 5 and we should be able to beat LeBron.

+1 Garrett.

@ QD: The world revolves around Boston/MA. Christ, look at John Kerry. A man’s importance when compared to his ego has never been more inversely proportional since Rueben Patterson called himself the Kobe Stopper.

My preference would be that we stayed with Tay and just added big men who wanted to control the paint.

But Tay’s problems are greater than defense. When Tay has a tough defensive assignment, he’s lost on the other end of the court. That is the crux of the problem. So even if we improve our frontcourt bigs, we can still plan on having a gaping wide hole at the 3 on offense.

Tay’s poor offense is a defensive weakness— it means his man doesn’t have to work on D, and can in turn focus on his offensive game alone.

Had Tayshaun maintained his season averages in the playoff ending series for the last three seasons, who knows— its possible we might have another banner hanging from our rafters.

I agree that John Kerry is a giant douche (or a turd sandwich), but he’s hardly the only politician with an ego problem, New England or elsewhere. See for instance Petey’s buddy John Edwards. Or Arlen Specter. Or…

I can always get on that bus, QD. You write sweet nectar. They’re the same size, metopolitan area-wise, as Detroit, but it’s as if only NYC and Boston exist to them. They’re a goddamn disgrace, almost every one of their fans.

The Jordan Rules were put together so one guy didn’t have to kill himself lunkin’ heads with Jordan. That applies in LeBron’s case … he’s too much for one guy to deal. You need the whole team with a scheme to keep him from getting hot … he’ll get his points, but it has to be the hard way.

Arlen Specter is bought and paid for by Comca$t. I love AT & T’s Uverse. Fuck you, PA!

I shouldn’t have singled out Kerry, Edwards, and Specter. I really meant every politician ever (probably) has had an ego problem.

Why is Stewie from The Family Guy x-overing in Bones? Jesus Christ, Fox, that was fucked up.

Lebron is on another planet right now. It feels like him and the Cavs haven’t needed to go past 1st or 2nd gear yet, and they’re still completely dominating.

All they needed was better guards, not great guards, just better than pieces of shit like Larry Hughes.

This reffing is unprecedented. Seriously. How many games now has the league levied a fan or suspension AFTER the fact? Why can’t the refs make the tough calls on the spot in the heat of the moment?

Wow. Cleveland is a juggernaut right now. They look like us circa 2004 only, um, better.

I’m all about Ron Artest. I’ve had a change of heart.

This is for you, Sauce…

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9545736/NBA-suspensions-don’t-always-make-sense

I love it when David Stern gets slapped in his face by these retorts. QD, if you kept a steady supply of those articles and Pabst Blue Ribbon, you’d be my new best friend.

I’m having fun watching little to no NBA action. My video gaming has skyrocketed as a result.

RE: QD’s linked article

It’s pretty pathetic when one team gets preferential treatment. I felt kind of skeezy when Billups got away with murder vs. Orlando last year on that one play where he hit the shot late but they counted it … I’m not gonna apologize for anything, as a fan, them’s the breaks, Orlando fans. However, it wouldn’t have been as sweet beating that team with that kind of treatment.

To me, I love contests where the winner and loser are just names …. when both teams basically are as great as the other, when a championship should be handed out to both teams. That seems to rarely happen, when talent matches almost to identity. It’s always some better team fucking shit up and getting into a prolonged series with some douchebag club that probably isn’t good enough to win 9 times out of 10, but does anyway. I hate that shit.

I also hate it when Detroit is described as such a douchebag club, re: the ‘89 and ’04 championships … those teams were evenly matched, there was just more fanfare for the Lakers. I like both teams, and I hate it when Lakers fans act like C’s fans and think the opponent is trash when it’s not.

You cannot stop Marian Hossa and Johan Franzen. You can only hope to contain them. Eat it Duck bitches, I can feel the mo’ shifting.

It’s apparently a tough conference. If Anaheim was causing Detroit any trouble, and they’re an 8th seed ….

And just for Big Ben, because he’s on the Cavs now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs0N0omQ8UQ

(but I still think he should have been the 04 playoff MVP)

Yikes Sauce, Kopecky got pwned…to the dressing room to be treated for “ass beating”

They finally broke their goalie tonight … that throws some serious doubt into the mix about their chances.

People want to dog Osgood, but the guy is Mr. May / June … doesn’t matter how average he looks during the regular season, he’s usually on point at the right time.

Man I hate the NBA sometimes.

Does the whooping that the Cavs are putting on Atlanta make Detroit’s losses seem slightly less pathetic?

I understand alot of this is smoke screen or preventing the natives from storming the castle with pitchforks but:

“Team president Hugh Weber said the Hornets are prepared to pay the NBA’s imposed luxury tax, if need be.

Weber said the team wouldn’t trade their most talented players, All-Stars David West and Chris Paul, just to avoid paying the tax. But he made no guarantees the team wouldn’t listen to offers for center Tyson Chandler, who is owed $25.5 million over the next two seasons, or forward Peja Stojakovic, who is due $29.5 over the next two seasons."

Holy Christ. ~27M/year for Chandler & Peja. Who signed those contracts? Even in his prime, Peja wasn’t worth 15M/year. Tay & Rip’s contract seem almost reasonable at ~10-11M/yr. Tyson’s isn’t much better but there aren’t many 5’s like that who are needed because West is a smaller 4.

My friend is in Detroit on business and I told him I would take him out tonight. I havent really been in Detroit (Im in Ann Arbor). Better to go to Greektown and that casino or MGM?

I know its not basketball related, but I was hoping to get local advice.

If you run into AI you should de-pants the little scoundrel.

@Sauce
The ducks are only the 8th seed, but their team got a lot better with added players towards the end of the season. Plus, they already knocked off the 1st seed. So its not like these guys are pushovers or anything.

I don’t know if any of you guys have seen this yet, but apparently Ron Ron’s table leg story was actually true. Didn’t see that coming.

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba/nba-trash-talk/ron-artest-s-table-leg-murder-account-verified-ar50426.html

Lucas, last time I was there, Detroit’s nightlife seems like it was outsourced to Royal Oak which used to be Guido-ville but was actually pretty cool last time I was there.

Mark Butter, everytime I look at that Peja contract I’m appalled. How did that happen?

The salary cap is at 57mil. If you paid all your starters 10mil each. You would have 7mil plus, let’s say another 13mil because most teams are over the cap, to pay your backups. So about 20mil for the other 10 players (some of which will be second rounders getting less than a million, and a couple may get the mid-level). I’m not sure what point I’m trying to make. Just thinking out loud.

Drew, Joel did some investigative work and found out about the real story.

That makes Artest’s interview less crazy in hindsight. But, if you were watching it live, the way he brought it up, it comes out of nowhere. The girl I was with and I were cracking up.

QD: I think that’s from 2002 & 2003 performance with the the Kings when they were good. Saying this is a 5 year contract, that would make the signing the summer of 2006. Even so, 15M freaking dollars?

I’m too lazy to look it up, but were the Hornets even any good then? This would have been trumpeted at the time as a “marquee” signing. Give Joe D credit, I don’t see him overpaying anyone by that amount. And considering he’s adequate on defense (very charitably speaking), again, Holy Christ.

New Orleans signed Peja in the summer of 2006, after Chris Paul’s rookie year. They won 38 games the year before they brought in Peja with a lineup of Paul, West, PJ Brown, and junk (Desmond Mason, Speedy Claxton, Rashaul Butler, Kirk Snyder, and a little bit of JR Smith and Birdman). For the 2006-2007 season, they traded for Tyson Chandler, added Peja, and had two first round picks. So on paper, it makes some sense. Imagine if they hadn’t so horribly screwed up those two first round picks (Hilton Armstrong and Cedric Simmons)…

In honor of LeBron James, you guys gotta see these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

I’m thinking we need a new thread.

Depends on what you want to do … in ‘Detroit.’

Want to go to a club? They’re everywhere from where you are to up by Flint. Want to go to a really unique club? Find out info beforehand ….

If I’m looking to ‘go out,’ I go Detroit or Royal Oak.

Greektown rules.

If you guys like pizza, there’s a great Chicago pizza downtown, PizzaPapalis. Or, if you’re lookin’ for Detroit-Sicillian, various places like Cloverleaf, Shield’s, or Buddy’s serve it.

Holy shit those hastily made Cleveland tourism videos are HILARIOUS. I almost chortled coffee through my nosehole.

“Our main export is crippling depression.”

Thanks for the help guys. Im a bit sad to miss the next installment of Kobe v. Ron Ron, but thats what the DVR is for.

I think Im going to give Greektown a visit. I read they have really good pastries in the area. (Im a fatty at heart)

Should there be any question what you do in Detroit? You hang out with this guy. (don’t waste your time with the video)

In most yrs. there’s zero chance a team will trade the first or even the second pick in the draft, this yr. might be the exception depending on who win’s the lottery.I’m wondering if Joe should make a run at the 1 or 2 ,either one of those guys would help the pistons alot the 3 not so much , but you can’t teach 7’3" so who knows, . So what do you guys think, what would it take to move all the way up, might make a good new thread.

Given how poor the team did this year, the upcoming draft is pretty crucial, and it’ll be more interesting than ever to see who we get.