Ben Wallace (and Terry Mills?!) update

bring back the old ben

Terry Mills! That guy was awesome. Didn’t he have some streak back in the day where he hit a bunch of 3-pointers in a row over the course of several games? Anybody remember that?

As for Ben Wallace, I say bring him back. He’s cheap, and he could provide leadership to this suddenly young crew.

A Terry Mills reminder, and the Fanhouse piece on the ’89 Pistons… great way to start the day. Thank you, Mr. Watson!

Listen, I will continue rooting for my team but as soon as he (Wallace) steps on that court I am booing the hell out of him. He is a joke and a sellout. I’d rather put Michael Curry out on the floor

Sure, Ben chased the money and left the Pistons. But Joe wasn’t going to give him anywhere close to $60 Million. I have a really hard time holding a grudge against a guy for signing a contract that overpaid him. It was a smart move on his part, and on Joe’s part for letting him go.

Jamison nails it! It’s just business.

Bring him back. Yeah, he took the money and ran. He was smart for doing that, and JOD was smart for letting him. Business decision both ways. Ben deserves to spend his last year with the Pistons at the vet minimum.

if you read langlois’ piston’s mailbag at detroitpistons.com it is pretty clear he is planting the seeds for ben’s return

Rob (Farmington, Mich.): I’m dying to find out what’s going on with Big Ben. Do you have any up-to-date word on whether or not he will sign with the Pistons?

Langlois: Rob, you’re representing dozens of questioners curious about Big Ben. It’s probably the likeliest move left for the Pistons. That doesn’t mean it’s inevitable, but it seems pretty clear that returning to the Pistons is Big Ben’s preference at this point. There’s no urgency to strike a deal, necessarily, since Wallace knows all the Pistons have to offer is a veteran’s minimum contract. If I had to guess, I’d say I believe it will happen.

Sean (Detroit): If the Pistons bring back Big Ben, could he start and still play a limited role? Even if he only plays 15 minutes per game, I think those minutes would be best utilized as the first six minutes of each half to set the tone physically and defensively.

Langlois: If he signs, Sean, then anything is possible, but the Pistons will be clear to whichever big man they sign to a veteran’s minimum contract that they’re being brought in as the No. 5 big man. Training camp will determine which way they go with the fifth starter. Before Wallace broke his leg with the Cavs last season, he was quietly having a pretty nice year. He wasn’t the Ben Wallace who won five Defensive Player of the Year awards, but he was giving the Cavs nice rebounding numbers per minute and anchoring Cleveland’s frontcourt defense. If nothing else, he’ll be really nice insurance up front.

Re Big Ben, I would welcome him back. I only hope that fans (and the coaches) are willing to accept not only his presence in general, but also the fact that his skill set has diminished considerably.

Re Terry Mills, here’s a true story. My wife took a (co-ed!) “Theory of Basketball” class with him at U-Mich. She claims she told him that a big guy like him would never get anywhere shooting 3-pointers.

I’d be happy to cheer for Big Ben again, but am not sure how’d he be as a mentor. This is the same guy who pretty much led the revolt against flip, in turn delivering us MCIAFI. I’m pretty sure he’d be willing to go with the flow (I have no idea about his relationship with Q-Star), and he could definitely fill the elden/theo/EC roll quite well. That said, I feel almost exactly the same as MW about tmills. I always thought he could be a little better then he played, but loved watching him fire 3’s. Yo matt, where’s the oliver miller updates????

Bring him back. I have absolutely no hard feelings for the guy. If you look at his career, it sure backed up his choice. Saying no to a deal that would STILL be paying him $14 million, even after he became a #5 big man?! No way.

I’m mixed on this. Given Q-star was Larry’s asst when Ben was on top of his game I think could mean alot. There definitely is a relationship there and only those two know what kind it is.

OTOH, this is a guy who said he wanted to retire but yet took 10M of 14M for him to do it. I don’t blame him but I it’s not only what he has left in the tank it’s what he has left in the head in terms of leadership. I don’t expect him to coast but you have to wonder how “up” he’s going to be. Ben got to where he is by determination, hard-work and persistence, all admiral traits and can be a positive effect on a young team. But what does it say after a road trip to come home and practice only to show up at the morning practice and go to the weight room with those aches and pains knowing you’re down the list and instead go to the trainer’s room?

Everybody is looking thru the looking glass from 5 years ago. He sucked last season in terms of comparison. Does anyone really think after 5 years he’s going to go head-to-head with Shaq and have the same effect?. . . relative to their ages and past history?

I say sign Chris Mihm for the vet min but I don’t think Chris qualifies and if Jod does this it is more of a feel good story than a basketball move.

uhm, is he going to be kwame’s backup? cause if he’s a starter i’ll kill myself. he was declining rapidly when we had him and then we were lucky chicago took his corpse off our hands.

love ben. one of my fav players ever. but if we’re picking him up for anything other than leadership and (maybe) 3-5 minutes a game, we’d be paying too much to offer $50 and a box full of iverson jerseys.

I say bring him back. I miss the gong. It always brought a smile to my face.

Also, was that a slimmer Mike Abdenour giving himself a Champagne Shower in the fanhouse link? Dude’s let himself go. Too much of the High Life, I suppose.

I think it is pretty obvious that Big Ben is coming back. And, as bench player, he can still provide D and rebounding (barring injury). Considering he would be signing for the vet minimum and it would not count against the salary cap… it is a no brainer imo.

Think there’s any chance of a sign and trade with the Knicks? Rip for Lee? Lee started at C apparently last year and had a positive net.

We’re talking about the same Ben Wallace that told Rip/Chauncey, “I told you how they [Dumars, Pistons organization] are.”

I think most people here would welcome Big Ben back with open arms. But if he still feels like he got “dissed” by the Pistons when they wouldn’t match the Chicago offer, then I have to question how much he really wants to come back here.

I’d also have to question his overall intelligence if he STILL can’t see that he was never worth that kind of money, but we ain’t bringin’ him back for his “thinkin’ skills.”

I think the locker room presence alone will be worth the price. Think of Ben as an assistant coach for the defense and big men and it’s really a win-win situation. Even if he’s hurt, he’s still worth the money just being there— you know Rip and Tay are going to love having one of their guys back, especially after losing everyone else, and if anybody can teach Kwame, Wilcox, and Max how to maximize their physical talents down low, it’s got to be Ben.

Do you think he’ll regrow the ’fro?

"…then I have to question how much he really wants to come back here. "

All the reports are saying that he reached out to the Pistons, not the other way around, so I don’t think we really need to worry about whether or not he wants to come back. Besides, coming back to the Pistons is the only way he’s remembered the right way— if he retires elsewhere, he’s just a money-hungry, flash-in-the-pan system talent that was exposed once he left the system. If he finishes in Detroit, he at least has a chance of getting his jersey retired. And to a guy with a lot of pride, I think that’s important to him (given that he’s already made his money).

@ Matt:

I think that “how they are” quote shouldn’t count against Ben that much. Consider the context. Chauncey had just found out he had been traded and apparently had mixed feelings at best; Rip was VERY upset. Ben, I think, was just trying to be supportive. Like when a girl breaks up with a guy, and the guy’s buddies say, “hey, you’re too good for her anyway” (or worse) about the girl. Ben, Rip and Chauncey had been through a lot together. Under the circumstances and at that particular moment when everyone was upset, do you really expect Ben to say, “well, given the fact that you guys are still losing in the ECF and Joe’s concern about cap space, it does kind of make sense”? It would be like the guy’s friend after the break up saying, “I know you’re sad, and yeah, she was great, but um . . ., well, you’ll get over it eventually.”

Also, I don’t know if Ben felt he was dissed as much as he made a simple business decision to make more money for a longer period of time. I don’t know many people who take less money to work for Employer A when (roughly) comparable Employer B is willing to pay much more. Especially in a business where your employer can ship you off to (roughly comparable) Employer B at any time.

Having said all that, Ben should only be used as a backup for short periods. If he can do that and be a mentor, he’ll be worth the vet minimum.

I still don’t really trust the “how they are” quote ever happened. That entire article seemed more interested in telling a compelling story than accuracy and journalistic integrity. The fact that he’s using direct quotes for a quote that he didn’t get, was told about, is an Albom-esque practice itself.

I am all for Wallace returning. We need another veteran voice in the locker room. We have not 1 leader. Unless Rip or Tay is ready for that role. No one is a lead by example or by voice type on the team. Big Ben was a leader during our Championship run. Kwame Maxiel & Wilcox, talented bigs who never maximized their potential. Ben can get that out of them. I think it’s a great move. Plus with Shaq back on the Eastcoast we need another defensive big to throw fouls at him. Same goes for Howard & now Bos with Sheed on the court with KG. Having Ben may be able to give us the small push we need to finish higher than 8th. He was still a starter on the best team last year until he got hurt & was still affective. Great move if it does happen.

Everyone knows that Ben Wallace wasn’t worth 60 million dollars over the life of the contract the Bulls gave him. He was getting old, and his athleticism was vital to his defensive dominance.

That said, Ben was probably relatively underpaid when he was contributing to the Pistons. He was our most valuable player, and he’s proved to be the most difficult piece to replace.

I wish Ben had stayed loyal to the team that made him famous. Who knows how differently things would have looked had we done so? But, it’s hard to blame the guy for taking the contract he did; I can’t say that I’d have done things differently.

Unfortunately for Wallace, the way he has performed over the past two seasons vindicates Jod’s decision to let him walk. He wasn’t worth the money he was paid at that point in his career.

I’d love to have him back at the vet minimum.

Initially, I thought he would only be a spot minutes/mentor guy, but looking back at his per minute stats last season before his injury, he was probably better than widely perceived. If he gets truly healthy, he might even be a 20 mpg kind of guy at backup C, which we still do need.

Also, if this is true:

I got the feeling that he’d appreciate the chance to come back and end his career with the fans once again on his side. What say you? Is everything water under the bridge or do people still harbor bad feelings?

and if the reports about Ben reaching out to Detroit are true, then I have a feeling he’d be welcomed back to a long standing ovation.

That would be great, because we could retire his number, and he could retire with the team that made him who he is.

Bring him back and make him, Rip and Tay co-captains. Having 4 guys (inc. Qster) say “this is how we won the championship” will hold some weight when getting the young vets to play defense.

I don’t get it. Why did Joe trade Amir for cap space if he’s just going to use it on a Big Ben, who at this point is a poor man’s Amir Johnson. I think Joe might have misjudged what he would be able to get in free agency.

Terry Mills = NBA players # 352 that Doug Collins has kissed.

@SB:
Bring him back and make him, Rip and Tay co-captains. Having 4 guys (inc. Qster) say "this is how we won the championship" will hold some weight when getting the young vets to play defense.

Could not have said it better myself. Instill that knowledge and experience in the new core. Do it. Ben’s return should be a no-brainer.

“Big Ben, who at this point is a poor man’s Amir Johnson”

laugh. out. loud.

Ben and his agent figured out a way to take a very specialized, declining, completely defensive skill set and get 60 million for it. He’s been paid, so now will his motivation be redeeming himself in Detroit? I sure hope so, because a motivated Ben Wallace was the immovable object that the ‘04 championship was built on. He doesn’t need to do everything he once did, but if he can come in and rebound, teach young guys, and fire up a crowd again, he’s worth the money. 10-12 mpg, 2 ppg, 6rpg, .5 bpg. That would do nicely.

The Pistons were right to let him go (his production since leaving proved that) & who can blame him for taking all that money the Bulls were offering.

I’d like to see him back, it’s not like he can make the current lineup any worse than it already it is!

AdamL: Vet min don’t count towards the cap

Completely and utterly off-topic:

I was looking at the top rebounds/game totals of all time at basketball-reference.com… only one player cracked the top 40 whose season in question took place after 1971 (or basically, the decade of the 60’s).

Dennis Rodman. Obviously. This we all probably figure, given his retarded 18.6 and 18.2 rpg seasons in ’91-93. But I think this gives pretty good sway to the argument that the Worm was the greatest rebounder of all time. Literally EVERY single entry in the top 20 is either Bill Russel or Wilt, all from ’59-69. #20-33 add a couple new names to the mix (Pettit, Thurmond, Lucas, Baylor), but are again dominated by Bill Russel and Wilt, and again only feature the years ’58-71.

The game got tougher. Players around the league got bigger, better, and more athletic. People didn’t get lazier— it just became much harder to pull down that many rebounds in a game once the league became fully stocked with athletes in the early 70’s and beyond. Even going all the way to #75, it’s still only Dennis Rodman (4 times), Moses Malone (once in ‘81) and Kareem (twice in the mid 70’s) that crack the all-time list after the early 70’s.

Pace-adjusted, player-skill adjusted, quality of competition adjusted, etc. etc. etc.— Rodman has to be without a doubt the best rebounder the game’s ever seen. Nobody in the modern era (’80-present) has ever really come close, and probably never will.

/end off topic

@joel:
you need an author account on DBB. that’s post-worthy material. awesome!

Also, to those who haven’t yet seen it, the Bucks sign Hakim Warrick. Cleveland apparently offered him their bi-annual, and I assume this signing is for a bit more than that, for a one year deal. It’s a solid signing, if they’re paying him Amir Johnson type money to share the 4 with Amir, that’s a lot of youth and talent.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/bucks.html

And that’s why he belongs in the HOF, cross-dressing and all.

Joel,

Good sleuth work.

I don’t disagree. The Worm is the best rebounding of the modern era of the NBA (80’s-present).

The question I would pose, though, is not whether or not he’s the greatest, but rather, is the greatest rebounder one of the greatest players?

Is it coincidence he has as many rings as he does? Or, would those teams not have won without him?

Quick Darshan: How many games do you think Ben would actually play this year? And when he does play do you think it’s going to be fun watching him drag his corpse up and down the court? If we bring him back it’s about nostalgia more then it would be about getting better.

Water under the bridge. That was years ago, most people will find it easy to let it go, and focus on the now, and the future. I’ll be happy to see him back in Detroit, I think he can accomplish some good things, on-court and off.

Ben was having a good year until his injury. I’d rather watch him “drag his corpse” up and down the court for 12 minutes a game than watch Amir foul out and put the other team in the bonus in the same amount of time.

+1 and LOL to QD

Agreed on Amir vs. Ben. Don’t you remember when Ben Wallace’s leg injury kind of scared the Cav’s a little? Because their interior defense was hurt? No one griped about interior defense after Amir was traded (I believe).

There shouldn’t be any numbers retired from this current generation.

The great thing about Ben coming back would be that he could teach the Pistons all those douchey things that the Cavs did last year to show how tight they were as a team. For example, he can show the young players how to do a pretend photo shoot.

As long as Ben accepts that he’ll probably have a limited role on the team then I welcome him back.

The great thing about Ben coming back would be that he could teach the Pistons all those douchey things that the Cavs did last year to show how tight they were as a team.

I hate the Cavs.

But this is freaking hilarious.

Delante West sniffing the new shoe smell kills me every single time. About the only thing funnier than that would be Kwame doing it.

It’s pro basketball. Taking the money is what it’s all about. Things can go bad in the economy like that and your investments go POOF. Ben Wallace’s involvement with the failed Starbury low price shoes wasn’t all about helping his fellow man but that’s the kind of thing that can wipe out a big chunk of your finances and leave you in dramatically different circumstances and fans aren’t going to be sympathetic. All Ben Wallace did was play hard and bitch a little towards the end…the same as every other Piston. I’d love to see him back.

And Big Ben was on my fantasy basketball team last year before he got hurt because he was quietly producing some solid stats. He’s no corpse. I read stories about the Spurs getting stronger by signing Theo Ratliff. Ben Wallace can play a quarter and half of ball on a rebuilding team where he was nothing but a leader and do nicely.

Joe#: We’re not rebuilding . .. we’re reloading dammit. (lol)

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Ben gave the best years of his career to the Pistons and was a crucial piece the championship team. Yeah he left for big money, but Chicago offered him something like $12 million more than Jod offered (as said above, Jod was smart not to match). Of course at this point in his career he is probably a 15-20 minutes a night player at best, but I’d love to have him back for the minimum. He can provide some leadership to this young team and help teach Gordon, CV, and the rookies to play NBA defense. That’s worth a roster spot and about $1 million IMO.

@brgulker

Regarding your Rodman comment… It’s a sham that he isn’t in the hall of fame. Pound for pound there has never been a better rebounder, and he was also able to shut down everything from athletic wing players to centers. Rodman had practically no offense but he didn’t try to go beyond his abilities and didn’t bitch about not getting touches. I think the lack of scoring and weirdness factors are working hard against him, which to me suggests that the HOF is more of a beauty pageant than a serious effort to identify the greatest players.

It’s the same as kwame. Sure, there’s better players in the league, but at the price we will pay them, I consider both of them sound investments.

Whether it was grabbing rebounds, blocking shots, or destroying the cap space of Central Division rivals, Ben Wallace has done nothing but serve the Pistons organization faithfully.

Defense is pissed on in basketball for fame and glory, even though it’s the reason why teams win more than actually scoring the fucking points.

Good point, QD

Dennis Rodman had a better career TS% than Isiah Thomas and was such a devastating offensive rebounder that you had to guard him just to make sure you had somebody to box out. Basketball is a team sport and my impression is that teams with Dennis Rodman were efficient offensively. Add in the defense and he’s one of the 12 people I’d put on my roster if I had to play aliens to save civilization.

It’s no wonder more players don’t come out and pattern their game after Rodman (or Big Ben). Sure, they had crazy freaky athletic talent, but they also just tried really damn hard.

@ butters: The vet min does count towards our cap it is just that the league makes it easier to sign them by absorbing most of the hit. The minimum right now is $1.3 mil, but the league absorbs $1 mil of that so we technically pay 300K. We can also go over the cap to sign any FA as long as it is only for the vet min.

@ The Gulk: I love the news anchor at the end of that clip. He just shakes his head and says that soon the Lakers will bring them back to earth. LOL

@ Big Ben: I would definitely welcome him back as long as he accepts his #5 bigman/mentor role. As someone aid earlier, he was actually having a decent season last year before his injury and if he can come back here and re-unite with the Kandy Man, I’m sure his leg should be able to hold up the whole season. For 300K, I don’t think there’s a better deal out there. Plus, he can come to practice everyday wearing his championship ring.

@ KJ: Even if you’re over the cap you can sign a player to the vet minimum.

My bad, didn’t read your whole post.

So lets assume Ben comes back. Does Stuckey give him #3 back? It would be nice to break out my Wallace jersey for games instead of on the occasional laundry day.

Can someone please explain to me what the hell the Bucks are doing?

I think Rodman is a borderline case on stats alone. His strength was rebounding, and his career rebounding total puts him at 20th. He’s behind Dikembe Mutombo, who was a stronger all-around player, and who is unlikely to make the hall of fame.

He’s 73rd in win shares, and his PER was unremarkable. People forget how few points he scored. Offensive rebounds have a lot of value because they generally result in high percentage shots. Rodman’s habit was to kick the ball back out to the perimeter.

The fact that he was a headcase puts him on the wrong side of the line, in my view.

I want Ben back, but only as a three-point specialist.

Shedding talent? It works for me.

Well the Bucks did just land Hakim Warrick, so I guess they wanted to make space for him.

Looks like the Bucks are doing a poor-man’s version of the combo forward offense the Pistons are going for.

OT: My friend just sent me this sick Kobe video. He’s good at the game of basketball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FpzQiERt8I

Mutumbo’s career TRB% is 19.1% vs. Rodman’s 23.4% and Rodman was consistently grabbed a few more percentage points worth of available rebounds in his prime. Rodman wasn’t just the best rebounder of his generation he was the best rebounder by about 20% in his prime, or about the difference between Michael Jordan’s 37 ppg and Dominique’s 29 ppg in Jordan’s most prolific scoring year. It’s a big difference in my view and Rodman deserves more respect.

On Dennis Rodman, if the guy had an attitude like stuckey or any other guy you’d call a character guy he’d probably be in the hall. I think any man that has a public picture taken in a wedding dress as either commited career suicide or career transformation to a comedian…and Rodman wasn’t that funny but i could see a “transformation” taking place.

On Big Ben, a lot of people in here have been talkin about Omeka “true defensive center” that we need at a price tag about as bad as the 60mil that Ben stole from the bulls. But with the offensive power that this team now seems to have if we can get a good defensive bebounder (I haven’t been able to use the Curryism in a post yet) at less than 1/10th of the price I’m on board. He’s not gonna be able to shut down Howard or Shaq, but 10-15 quality minutes and 6 fouls will go along way when necessary. He can help this team until we can get another big probably with the MLE next year, and I can hear the big gong again (damn I miss that).

Finally, If the Pistons feel they need to copy anything that the Lebrons are doin (fake photo shoots, crying after playoff losses, etc.) then we need to blow up the roster and start over again.

JOD has absolutely NO legitimate starting big men.

I would welcome Big Ben, and have him start and play 30 minutes a game.

Kwame is a punk. You would never see Ben watch a teammate get hit by an opposing player and laugh.

And anyone that says that they wouldn’t do exactly like Big Ben did, i.e. change jobs and move from Detroit to Chicago for an extra $12 million over 4 years, is a lying sack of shit.

Terry Mills was not the continuation of Laimbeer (who, by the way, should be the head coach of the Pistons right now). Big Ben was the continuation of Bill Laimbeer – both tough as nails.

@jbstork:
Kwame is a punk.
The Knights of Kwame Brown have a special place in the Iron Maiden with your name on it.

About the Aliens, i think my 12 would be MJ, Oscar Robertson, Shaq, Kobe, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Kareem, Rodman, Dr. J, Hakeem Olajuan, and Reggie Miller just to drain 3’s over the tiny aliens.

@jbstork…what incedent are you referring to when Kwame laughed at a teammate getting hit?

My ‘I Have To Beat The Aliens’ XII:

Magic, Jerry West
Jordan, Moncrief, Dumars
ABA Dr. J, Bird
Duncan, Wes Unseld, Rodman
Russell, Wilt

It’s probably a sin to leave out Oscar Robertson but I’m not sure he would change the style of play any if he subbed in for Magic/Jordan so I went for different type players for matchup purposes. If the aliens had a good rebounding team I’d go with a Rodman/Russell/Wilt front line and let West and Jordan gun from the backcourt. If they were small and good ball handling aliens I think I could field a pretty good pressing team. Unseld is on the team to set picks and throw outlet passes. I can make a case for the defense and versatility of Olajuwon and Pippen against shape shifting aliens but I don’t want to be silly.

@Cody:
About the Aliens, i think my 12 would be MJ, Oscar Robertson, Shaq, Kobe, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Kareem, Rodman, Dr. J, Hakeem Olajuan, and Reggie Miller just to drain 3’s over the tiny aliens.

You lost me at Reggie Miller. I thought the whole point was to DEFEAT the aliens, not employ them.

My ‘I Have To Beat The Aliens’ XII:

Magic, Jerry West
Jordan, Moncrief, Dumars
ABA Dr. J, Bird
Duncan, Wes Unseld, Rodman
Russell, Wilt

Here’s my version of “I Have to Beat the Aliens”:

Billups
Hamilton
Prince
Wallace
Wallace

Circa 2004. As long as David Stern is not Head Alien In Charge of Rules and Means.

“ZONGLABAT- WHY CANNOT YOU SHOOT BASKETBALL OVER UNDERSIZED HUMAN WITH LITTLE BODY FAT AND LARGE AFRO. HIS HANDS SEEM TO GRAB, SWAT OR PUSH EVERY SHOOT YOU TAKE. MOTHERSHIP COMMAND DISPLEASED.”

Am I the only one who thinks that Rodman’s entertaining personality should help his hall of fame cred, not hurt it?

Regardless, I loved watching him out-position taller rebounders and sprint down the court full-throttle. On the court, he was everything but a distraction. A great role model. (Well, maybe sans his ambivalent free-throw technique.)

Zonglabat is a poor man’s Vernon Maxwell.

My 12:

Magic Johnson, Bob Cousy, John Stockton
Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant
Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen
Tim Duncan, Karl Malone
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Hakeem Olajuwon

Oops, forgot Iverson. I’ll just swap him in for Jordan and watch the alien defense get deformed.

You gotta include Sam Cassel. The aliens won’t be able to tell what team he plays for.

My alien fighting squad:

1st team: Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Kareem
2nd team: Stockton, Oscar, Bird, Barkley, Wilt
3rd string: CP3, Russell

“Kwame is a punk. You would never see Ben watch a teammate get hit by an opposing player and laugh.”

I’ve told this story a few times on here over the years but now I forget who was involved… but I vividly remember a scuffle breaking out between the Pistons and the Celtics (I’m pretty sure). Someone punched Ben right in the face. Like a right hook across the jaw. And he didn’t even flinch. He just stared at the guy and the guy backed away and then was “held back” by the refs. After the game when the reporters asked Ben about the punch, his reply was, “What punch?” BAD ASS.

If I remember correctly, it was Shaq (a 350 lb. grown man) taking out Amir (despite Arnie Kander’s weight training is still about half the size of Shaq) late in the game, and Kwame laughing. Like Garrett, I am not certain who was involved though. It was early in the season, and I recall posting on this site that Kwame should be released immediately.

Big Ben had many bad ass moments with the Pistons. Who can forget when he threw Artest half way across the court with a blow to Artest’s neck? Answer – Artest, at least according to his reenactment in Hong Kong, when he left that part out because it makes him look like a bitch.

Whoever was involved, I also remember JMax jumping in quickly (i.e. not laughing) – probably because his first few years in the NBA were with Big Ben.

When did this Kwame/Amir/Shaq thing happen? The only thing I remember is Shaq throwing his shoulder into Amir on a fastbreak and taking him out. I think it was in Phoenix. That was middle of the 2007-2008 season, though.

As a knight of the black order of Kwame Brown, I must protest against all this talk of my liege and his supposed cowardice.

Villz got some grillz.

The Black Order of Kwame Brown? Why’s it got to be a racial thing?

Dark order. Whatever

We’re Black knights. Dude is black.

Yeah, the Shaq foul on Amir was not last season.

Brown Knights?

That makes much more sense, I’ll get the banners changed.

Aliens list:
Jordan
Bugs Bunny
Lola Bunny
Bill Murray
…

I also remeber shaq hacking the hell out of stuckey, and sheed not doing anything but going over and scraping stuck off of da court. Who remembers when Tay dunked on zo mourning and hung on the rim so that he wouldn’t land on anyone. and zo pushed him off. and in sheed’s defense he got in Zo’s face.

Zo’s weaker than his kidneys.

yeah, I really hate that the douche bag got a ring at our expense

The incident with Shaq was last yr in phoenix only it was Stuckey not Amir and shaq , like the big goon he is , pretty much threw himself into Stuckey when he was driving for a layup and bulldozed him to the floor, and yes Kwame did laugh about it , I guess in his defense it was very early in the yr and didn’t know Stuckey very well but that’s not the point .This team needs an enforcer I wish we had a young Rick Mahorn.

Enforcers as we know them wouldn’t last long in the league with its new rules, though.

@Defor:
The incident with Shaq was last yr in phoenix only it was Stuckey not Amir

Same thing happened to Amir, but in the year prior.

Thank you, Defor.

I knew I remembered Kwame being a bitch, and I got the right team and the right bully, just the wrong year.

When a big man does not back up his teammates, the lockerroom and the team go to shit. Last year, the Pistons had decent talent, but MCIAFI lost control of the team, and the players stopped trying, particularly AI and Sheed (though I still love Sheed). The players on this team have not really put everything out there since LB was here.

LB is not available – he is building a team in Charlotte that will make the playoffs next year. But at least we can bring back Big Ben to get that attitude back. I liked when the Pistons brought Rick Mahorn back, and I think this is similar but even more needed now.

he is building a team in Charlotte that will make the playoffs next year.

yeah and we will win the championship.

Here’s the play. Looked like he and Shaq were jawing and then he started laughing at Shaq trying to justify himself.

That said it would be nice to see Kwame develop a mean streak. As I’ve proposed before, the Pistons should do a reverse Clockwork Orange on him and condition him to a bit of the ol’ ultra-violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjnMdNm-Imk

@DBBSB:
the Pistons should do a reverse Clockwork Orange on him

They should repeatedly show doctored videos of current NBA big men stealing cake from Kwame as a baby.

Looking at the video again, I can see how you would think that Kwame was “jawing” at Shaq. To me, it looks like he is joking around with him.

I would have liked to have seen him take on Shaq – kinda like the new guy in prison fighting the biggest bad ass to quickly develop a reputation. If not, I would have liked to have seen Kwame quickly get between Shaq and Stuckey and keep him away – much like Sheed did. Instead, Kwame nonchalantly walked over and started laughing.

The point is – Kwame is a bitch.

Laimbeer and Mahorn’s women on the Shock are even tougher than Kwame. When they fought the Sparks, you didn’t see anyone laughing with the opposing players. You saw Lisa Leslie fall backwards when Mahorn gently nudged her away from the fight, and then complain in the subsequent interview that Mahorn hit a woman. I know this is a bit off topic – but Lisa, if Rick Mahorn hit you, you would not be able to do a subsequent interview.

Sometimes I wonder if we should just go out and find some 7 footer who weighs about 330 pounds who can run the floor and do basic dribbling , watch him back in close to the basket and lob it into him he can just keep backing up til he’s under the basket and just drop it in and grab 8 to 10 rebounds .There’s a ton of wrestlers out there that are as big as dinosuars seems like we could recruit one of them pretty cheap , teach him how to throw his weight around and instant Shaq.

On Ben, I’d really like to see him come back. It hasn’t seemed right watching him in Bulls and Cavs uniforms the past few years. I’d love to see him come home, play one more year and retire in front of the fans whom he won a title for. Then we can put his #3 up in the rafters where it belongs (and waiting for the #1 to go next to it). I don’t care if he’s a shell of his former self, his coming home just seems right.

@Defor

I don’t think it’s that easy to get a giant person to play in the NBA. My guess is that Kwame Brown is more coordinated than a 6’ tall star HS athlete. It’s only by comparison to maybe the most athletic group of people in the world do some NBA centers look stiff and awkward.

@joejoejoe:

Definitely. I was playing basketball at the CCRB at Michigan and looked over at the middle court to see Graham freaking Brown drain a three in some guy’s face. I stopped to watch and he pretty much stayed on the perimeter and was taking people off the dribble. It was only a pickup game at the rec center, but it still kind of floored me. I mean, the guy looked completely lost on the offensive end when he suited up for michigan and here he was doing his best Kobe impersonation.

fuck Ben and his #3 going in the rafters.

He can wear #30 if he comes back.

You know, I was pissed when he left too. But Ben was the cornerstone that helped lead us out of the teal era and into the extended run we had throughout this decade. Yes, he’s declined severely. Yes, we’re in trouble if we’re counting on him for more than 10 minutes a night. But a Pistons jersey should be the last thing he wears in the NBA before he retires.

Other Matt,

I’m not pissed at him. I believe that any player who serves as the cornerstone of your franchise shouldn’t have their number retired if they leave for more money like Ben did. Screw him. He doesn’t deserve the #3 back if he re-signs here.

He was a shell of his former self the last 3 years of that contract, and he deserves it.

The #30 idea is fantastic.

I was at the first game that Ben came back to the Palace as a Bull, and I was probably one of the few who actually cheered him when he came onto the court. I would gladly cheer him again if we were to sign him. I find it hard to blame a guy for leaving a coach/system that he was not happy with. I think it had more to do with Flip Saunders than money. Besides, so many people were excited that the Pistons were interested in Boozer, a player just as eager to jump ship in Cleveland to join the Jazz as Ben was to join the Bulls. He won’t even play that many minutes, but he will be able to teach the younger guys and give championship experience to the team.

Speaking of Terry Mills……….. THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txUcIvvh1bA

@ Joel, QD:

Charlie Villanueva seems like a good guy and all, but this is way too Rodman-esque for me.

Maybe in addition to backing up the 5, future Piston Ben Wallace can serve as assistant coach for toughness-in-the-lane and actively-discouraging-cross-dressing.

Lame, but slightly better.

@CV:
PUT THE CAMERA DOWN, DOUCHE.

Charlie Villanueva seems like a good guy and all, but this is way too Rodman-esque for me.

Would you like to have ‘96 Rodman on our current team? Of course you would. I don’t care if CV’s directing midget porn and smuggling coke in his spare time, as long as he’s good at basketball he can wear whatever he wants. And take pictures of it. And post it online. And ask people what they think of said pictures. Even though if I did that all my friends would call me un-PC names.

He looks like he’s in an 80s hair band.

You guys know he can’t grow any hair, right? Putting on a wig is the closest he gets to having a head of hair. I don’t think there’s any comparison to rodman there.

Further proof that Ben Wallace should come back to the D and take these dudes to school. Hard Hat and all that shit.

On second thought, I’d much rather see CV “directing midget porn and smuggling coke” than playing dress-up. At least the former activities would be rebellious/transgressive/illegal. Trying to look like the bass player from Whitesnake is just douchey.

And no, Craig, he’s not bravely trying to overcome alopecia areata.

Tad bit late on this one, but here’s my “vs. Aliens” 12:

PG: Magic, Isaiah, CP3

SG: Jordan, Dominique Wilkins (So that we can not only win, but also embarrass them with otherworldly dunks)

SF: Bird, LeBron

PF: Duncan, Barkley, Rodman

C: Kareem, Shaq

Honorary 13th Man: Kurtis Blow, performing his timeless(?) classic, “Basketball,” over and over again from the bench – http://tinyurl.com/3xhfme

You know what? scratch ‘Nique at the 2 and replace him with pre-injury Bernard King. 32 ppg on 50+ % shooting in his prime (also did 26 per on 57% shooting). Really wonder how good he could’ve been if he hadn’t torn up his knees.

I’d take ben back in a heartbeat for the vet minimum. But I’m less sold on retiring his jersey. I don’t see how he deserves to be next to 4 and 11.