The press equating Curry’s inexperience to Thibodeau or Kuester is a bit forced. Curry was supposed to be an ace communicator and a hard ass and ended up being neither PLUS a train wreck X and O guy. Thibodeau and Kuester are most definitely solid X and O guys so things like the crazy rotations and odd schemes shouldn’t be an issue with either of them. Their ability to deal with the press and drama are in question but that should be a lot less of an issue on a team without ’Sheed and AI and maybe….others.

Unless Joe D hires a head coach with head coaching experience, even Laimbeer (it was the WNBA but nonetheless he was still a head coach), I can’t see Joe putting his job on the line by hiring another inexperienced head coach. I understand that sooner or later an assistant should be given a shot somewhere, but in light of what the Pistons went through with the coaching situation last year, I can’t understand why Joe D would even consider for one moment hiring another coach who has never headed an NBA team before.

I still think of Avery Johnson as the guy who let #8 seeded Golden State dictate the pace of a series to his #1 seeded Mavericks. If he learned from his mistakes in that series he should still be a good coach though. I may find him annoying as an announcer but JVG still has the best resume of any of the candidates IMO. It’s not his fault that the Rockets could never stay healthy during the postseason and I still think it was a bad move by Houston to fire him.

A young team built on guys with good character with Tay as its leader should not require a hard ass. I could see Joe bringing in either of those assistants (although I would prefer Avery Johnson). Sheed is gone, and the remaining players seem to understand that they could be the next to go. I could see a little bit of an issue with Rip, but Stuckey, Ben Gordon, and Tay, who would be the leaders of the team if Rip left, are very calm guys.

Even though he’s never been a head coach, Thibodeau has 19 years of experience as an NBA assistant. And Kuester was the youngest head coach in NCAA history back in 1980 and has has served as an NBA assistant off and on since 1990.

Curry, on the other hand, had one year under Flip Saunders.

Kuester is supposed to be an offensive expert. And Thibodeau is a defensive expert. Hire them both and have them co-coach.

Flip has a lot more experience than Avery, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to ask for a similar contract.

Forgive my ignorance of the chain of command/non-player roster size, but how many people can Dumars bring in? I was thinking Johnson as Coach, Laimbeer as Assistant perhaps.

I think you can have as many as you want. I would think that Avery would want to bring Del Harris, his x’s and o’s guy, with him.

Avery likes to control things though, and I think he would bristle if dumars tried to bring in his own people. joe would definitely have to clear things with avery.

QDIII: Del Harris retired a little over a month ago, but who knows.

It’s a delicate situation, bringing in a dude like Avery, with a guy like Dumars.

How about we bring in Laimbeer as our head coach and Keuster and Thibodeau as 2 of his assistants? I think I like it…

They should get all those fools if the CREAM permits. This is a big project.

Dont know if this has been posted by anyone, its not on ESPN yet but it looks like Sheed is gonna offically be in Boston next season…

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2009/07/wallace_commits.html

Thoughts?

Great news. ’Sheed, KG and Perk will be the most fearsome bigs in the league. Maybe Dice or AI will want to come to Boston for the BAE.

BTW does this mean Natalie is gonna officially change need4sheed?

‘Sheed to Boston makes them quite dangerous in the playoffs if they are healthy. It’s not bad luck when old players have injuries though, it’s life, so no guarantees for Beantown. That said, I think ’Sheed would have a better chance for rings in Orlando next to Dwight Howard. His game fits best in ORL, second best in San Antonio, and a distant third in Boston.

I want to throw up. Sheed could piss me off at times but I loved watching him play these last five years. I could have taken him going to Orlando or San Antonio, but Boston? Ugh.

My most hated Piston goes to my most hated team.

He’ll shore up their bench and give them another six fouls for Shaq and Howard. He would probably have started in San Antonio or Orlando. But, Sheed was never one to want to work harder than he had to.

I like it. maybe he can run them into the ground too.

Sheed has the skills to be very good still for Boston, it’s just hard for me to wish good things to someone who quit on my Pistons

I understand what you’re saying Kronik. Sheed mailed it in last year once it became clear this team wasn’t going anywhere. Boston signed him because he is one of a few players in the league who can guard Dwight Howard. I hope it backfires, but I think this is probably a great signing by Boston. Fuck the Celtics.

I agree with all that SadPanda says.

Was it Wallace’s fault that Dumars destroyed the 2009 Pistons by trading Chauncey Billups?

I’m not to comfortable defending a guy who quit on his team, but if there was ever a situation where it was a tiny bit justifiable, that disastrous team in Detroit last year was it.

Between the lousy coaching and horrible roster chemistry, that team was heading for a first round exit, even if ’Sheed stood on his head all playoff.

And Im now a Celtics fan.

Sheed may have mailed it in last season, but who didnt? And the stones didnt want to sign him again, can you blame him for wanting to play for Boston?

Enjoy your year or two on Team Bitchmade, you goddamn crumb-bum

No, you can never be a Celtics fan. This dates back to the days of the bad boys (this is detroit bad boys .com isn’t it), I fucking hate Boston and always will.

I’m trapped in a glass case of emotion.

Hell, Sheed mailed it in the year before when we kicked the celts arse in Boston, he stopped playing. When we came home he was the most absent player out there. He had a look of submission on his face. all of this after we whalloped them in game two. he had some good times but for me He was exposed the first time we lost to Cleveland. and it’s been all down hill after that. No consistency. the only thing you could look forward to was his antics. and more often than not, his antics lost us games. I’ll bet Joe is happy to see him gone.

Actually I think Sheed was one of Joe’s favorites. At the latest, he should have traded Sheed for Boozer at the trade deadline. That would have helped both teams. Don’t forget he picked Sheed over Memo; look who’s putting up monster numbers right now and who looked finished in the conference finals each year. I agree, when we lost to Cleveland it was clear the Pistons needed a face lift.

@ Ali,
I agree sheed was once one of Joe’s favorites. and I do think keeping sheed was the right move over Okur at the time. I even remember all of the rumors of Sheed retiring a piston. and getting a front office/asst.coaching job. I will even say he has been my favorite player for the majority of our run. but it was his mercurial attitude, and Chauncy’s nonchalant attitude that was the cancer of the team. Sheed had countless meltdowns. and Chauncy just began to seem unfazed by losing playoff series. I am looking forward to seeing the new mindset of the pistons. My only question is who is going to instill that mindset. the going to work days are officialy over. we need a new motto synomonous with the “D” Run And Gun? I’m listening post your suggestions below.

Sheed had definitely run his course in Detroit. Thanks for helping us get over the hump, Sheed. Any bets on how many T’s the Celts have next year?

damn sheed…I knew you were leaving but to Boston? I hate them so much, but I can’t hate sheed.. The inner turmoil will be great.

I will miss you sorely, Rasheed. May you enjoy the twilight of your career— and if you’re going to get one more championship, do it this year while the Pistons are rebuilding, yeah? I’ll always hate the green jersey and the team it represents, but I’ll still love ya when you’ve got it on your back. Later on, old friend…

I’m really curious as to whether Sheed gets the Chauncey treatment from Mason and the crowd when Boston first plays in Detroit next year. Chauncey was traded to his hometown team who is by no means a rival. Sheed left on his own volition and to Boston (uch). I think it’s safe to say he was a pretty polarizing figure in Detroit before this move. Will he get the hero’s welcome Chauncey got when he comes back?

Didn’t Rasheed shit on us fans enough over the past two seasons-plus? Now to Boston? I hope that motherfucker gets injured.

And the Kansas City Chiefs suck.

Whatever. If I’m a contending team I’d rather have McDyess.

Maybe he’ll pull a Turkoglu and agree to sign with Toronto tomorrow.

Now that he can get away with illegal screens, I’m sure Sheed will get T’d up less this year.

I think the real reason he’s moving to Boston is so he can legally marry Kevin Garnett.

Grant Hill to Boston, too?!

Good luck Sheed, a season late, but the time to move on has arrived. You served the team, won a championship, lost interest and desire and eventually mailed in a season that is best forgotten. Nevermind all that though, it’s better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, that one moment in 2004 made it all worth it. All the best, but now we are enemies. Go Stones!

McDyess had a better PER, TS%, and REB% than Rasheed last year. I wonder what kind of $$$ he’ll get on the open market.

I still got my Ra jersey and I still am a fan. But man oh man did that guy drive me nuts. His being in Boston almost – almost – makes me willing to tolerate them.

OT: thank f’ing god Ricky Rubio is staying in Spain. I’ve been tired of hearing Menudio’s name since the Olympics last year, and I’m glad as hell I don’t have to hear about season in, season out in the NBA.

lol at the conflicting Fanhouse article titles about sheed

Man, I’m going to miss “Ball don’t lie!”

Off topic, Rip for Boozer is still very much alive. The article I read compares Gordon to Iverson, saying he actually is Iverson, and has no conscience when taking shots. I want team ball and defense dammit

Source: Meeting between Dumars and Johnson “Productive”

@MF Skee-lo:
I saw that Rip/Boozer article. I’m still hoping it has some weight to it!

MFMP:Tayshaun will be the last of the mohicans.

More on Avery:
sources say the Pistons have been slowly moving away from Johnson — who reportedly is looking for a say in personnel decisions and could ask for a contract worth $5 million per season — and towards Cavaliers assistant coach John Kuester.

i think it a tough deal to make avery seems to wear out his welcome and joe runs coaches off like nothin so i would have to imagine they are on oppposite ends but i hope they find some middle grounds

I don’t think Joe runs coaches out of Detroit. No more than any other GM in the league. Remember, Bill Davidson only passed a short time ago. Until then, he had quite a bit of say on who stayed on who received the pink slip.

@ TripleOT

If I had time, I’d go back and let you re-live all the negative things you had to say about Rasheed during the season. Now you’re on his jock just like all the rest of the Boston Bandwagoners.

@ Lucas

Go on, be a fan of the Celtics. Take Petey and david stern with you too.

@ the rest

While we will all miss Rasheed Wallace, we won’t miss his jacked up 3s with plenty of time left on the shot clock. We won’t miss his end of the game catch and shoot plays that are called for him where he bobbles the ball. We won’t miss his (many) defensive lapses.

Sure, the guy may lock down against guys like Tim Duncan and Howard but there were too many nights where Andrew Bogut, Charlie Villenueva, Kendrick Perkins, Joe Smith, Varejao, Big Baby, too many others to list went off and had career nights or 20 point and 10 rebound nights.

He brought this city their championship belt. He was what this team needed in 04 otherwise we wouldn’t have won. He was this generation’s Bill Laimbeer in Detroit. He brought swagger to a franchise that waited 14 years to get a sniff at another title.

I’m sad he’s gone but after how bad the team fell apart and he was supposed to be one of the leaders, good riddance. Go be PJ Brown or Dale Davis for the last 3-4 years of your career.

Well put. I think he was the baddest boy on the roster. Toughness and Swag, we need a re-up.

I just saw the Boozer for Rip article.

Intersting trade…though we still dont have a center

Jazz have been looking for a SG and they may just be desperate enough to be willing to pay Rip’s contract, and for Pistons they get Boozer.

Rip Hamilton and Deron Williams: Great backcourt.

All the top teams in the NBA are upgrading but accepted the Pistons. Were tring to get rid of RIP for Utah’s Loozer hoping he’ll improve our team. It’s not going to happen!!!!! 1st of all you put that guy up agains’t tree and he disapear. Second of all Utah management and fans don’t want him because they know what he’s about, overpaid, injured prone, underside and list goes on. I read blog’s from Utah fans and they know this sucker’s deal, and lately the Pistons seem to like playing the role as the sucker. I don’t see Boston trying to trade KG for O.J. Mayo since they signed Rasheed, Right now Rip is the best player on the team. You don’t get rid of him, you build a team around him. Rip for Loozer will definitly turn the Pistons into a top five draft pick next year!!!!!

joe,

Relax man… it’ll be ok.

Loozer! I c what u did there.

@joe:
if joe trades rip for Loozer I’ll call him Dumbars

So Rasheed is still the villain?

When he was here people pointed the finger at him and now that he has left people are still blaming him. People act like it was Rasheed’s fault for alot of things that happened over the years, especially last year. Too many people in here talk about him “mailing it in”, when all of last year he was hampered by calf injuries. No body wants to put the blame on Hamilton, who was a no show for the first half of the season. Or Tayshaun who has been a no show for the last 2-3 seasons. Or when Chauncey was here, for being a ECF “bust” for his last 3 years. The first one to blame was always Rasheed and that’s very sad. Especially, when all of those guys are suppose to be considered leaders and not one of them played close to perfection let alone half their potential when we needed them to.

Personally, I think everyone that was a part of the 5/4 core were to blame equally. Rasheed is gone but I’m not going to bash him for whatever team he plays for or for leaving. I’m just going to do the same thing I did when Chauncey left, wish the man the best of luck and grant no mercy when I see him on court.

In all honesty, this team should of been split up a long time ago. Not giving one man all the blame but spread it around equally, same way we did when we won the gold back in ’04. We celebrated them equally and never once said “this or that player was the reason why we won”.

We need to move on as an organization and if Ben Wallace left on his will, Chauncey got the boot, and Rasheed was neglected (let’s face it, people act like the Joe was chasing him during FA and it was clear he wasn’t). Then it’s time for both Tayshaun and Rip to be shipped out of town as well.

I want from here on out, a fresh look for this team. The longer we hold on to these players, the longer we will be held back from another title.

We need to Prepare for teams with 4 or 5 scores like Boston, Magic, Lakers, Spurs and even now the Cavs. All the top teams understand this, except the Pistons. I thought Dumars was understanding what moves the Pistons need to make to get back at the top. But Rip for Loozer is not the move. If it’s about a 2010 expiring contract, just trade Rip for Amire. At least you getting something out of it.

Boozer is an expiring contract, if I’m not mistaken.

joe,

spell check. Learn it, love it, live it.

@ MikePayne

DIF JOD TRAYDES RIPP FOR LOOZER IMMA CULL HIM CHODE!!!!!!(LOUD NOISES!)!!!!

RODNEY SUCK_Y IS NO POINT GARD!!! CAN"T DUMBARS SEE HE"S A SUCK_Y!! TRADE HIM FOR RONDEUA AD KG!!!

Diablo,

Oh I see… so a HEALTHY Rasheed Wallace would’ve lead this team to the promised land last season? I mean, with his hurt calf and all, that hampered him and kept him from leading a team that he never lead to begin with, right?

Rasheed is not the sole player to blame, but he deserves most it. The 2 guys, I feel, who deserved most of the blame for the Pistons’ flameouts in recent years are Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace. From Chauncey’s big talk to Rasheed’s on court antics, it just wasn’t good to go further.

I truly felt that after Joe’s speech last offseason that Rasheed or Chauncey would be dealt that offseason considering their contract statuses… Chauncey had just re-upped but was still at the top of his game while Rasheed was an expiring deal that came off the books at the end of the season. Rip was a tricky situation because he had a player option and Tay well, Tay has about as untradeable a contract as you can get on the entire roster.

Blame assignments for “Core” who fell apart:
Billups: 30%
Rip: 20%
Tay: 10%
Rasheed: 40%
Center: 0%

Blame assignments for last season:
MCIAFI: 20%
Rip pouting: 20%
Rasheed: 20%
Stuckey not staying consistent: 10%
Tay: 10%
AI: 20%
Joe for breaking our hearts and forcing us to watch Billups in the WCF: 30%
McDyess: +30% positive

Boney, that post is going to get some reactions.

Bynum: +30% positive

Petey: 15%

If we’re going to make stupid trades like Rip for Boozer, Dumars might as well call up the C’s ask them is the trade for Stuckey, Rip, Prince still availble at least you know your improving the PG position. Instead of Rip for Loozer, it can be Allen for Loozer and watch Utah GM laugh in Dumars face as they reject the offer. I have to agree with some bloggers, when they say the Pistons are spoiled.

@ Boney

My criticisms of Wallace on here, IIRC, were about his annoying habits, like ont joining teammates in the huddle, and getting techs in inopportune times. That’s not going to change when he’s in Celtic green.

My other criticisms of Wallace were related to people trying to place him on KG’s level as a player. As a starter, compared to KG, he has a lot of flaws that I critized. As a 6th man, it’s an entirely different story. I’ll take him over any bench big in the league.

I hope that clears things up for you. I’m not the type to get “on his jock just like all the rest of the Boston Bandwagoners,” as you put it. Is following a team religiously since 1967 bandwagoning?

And speaking of bandwagons, are Pistons fans going to start jumping off? How about ’Sheed’s bandwagon? Or the allegedly promising young players, like Afflalo and Amir Johnson?

Boney, feel free to go back and recap what I’ve posted on this blog. I called the 2008 ECF for the Cs in 6. I wrote that Johnson and Afflalo weren’t going to get much done. I said that Stuckey would struggle as a lead guard.

And now, I’ll say that Rasheed Wallace will be the difference maker in the EC next year, and probably in the Finals too. I expect him to be a good soldier in Boston, and I expect him to become a fan favorite.

@QD:
Petey: 15%

Win! +100

@Boney:
My blame assignments for last season look like this:
Dumars: 90%
MCIAFI: 10%

@TripleOT:
From remembering you on here before the Big Three trades happened, I can say you’re likely the only non-bandwagon Boston fan I know. Any Boston fan who owns a KG jersey, on the other hand, should be euthanized. (and for that matter, any Piston fan with an AI jersey too)

I wouldn’t mind a rip for boozer trade. I know it doesn’t help our center position but at least we would get another big body and an expiring contract. We have a LOT of SG’s on the team so getting rid of the biggest contract wouldn’t be so bad. We would get a 1 year look at what Boozer can do before deciding if we wanna give him a contract, trade him, or just let him walk. Eaither way we would get a good player out of the deal, even if it is sometime between now and next year. IMO, I think if we DO MAKE THE DEAL, we would more than likely trade him at the deadline or just let him walk. I don’t think we would really sign him to a long-term deal because we just signed Charlie V to a long-term deal. Plus, I sure hope if Joe is serious about this deal that he waits until CV signs because otherwise he might re-think his options.

TripleOT,

Rasheed Wallace will not make anymore of an impact in Boston next year as he did in Detroit in the last 3 years.

If I were Danny Ainge, the alleged mastermind of the greatest franchise ever assembled I might think twice when it comes to dumping guys who are “glue” guys for the sake of signing a name on the back of a jersey just because he was once who he was.

I believe with all these acquisitions that Boston is not improved should they lose Baby and Powe. I believe with Eddie House coming back and the assumption that Tony Allen can once again man the point when Rondo is not around, that Danny Ainge should’ve looked to the waiver wire for a backup 2 or backup 1 that could make the potential loss of Allen or Rondo to injury much less of a headache in Beantown.

By all means, if you were a fan since 1967, good on you. I will not believe that adding a 35 year old who has lacked motivation for (at least) the last 3 seasons will put the C’s over the top. It’s only a matter of time before the parts of that Mercedes start to rust and fall apart due to age.. and lord knows I hope it’s this season.

@ KRONIKjose

If that’s the cast we might as well just trade Rip for Amire. Amire will have a bigger impact than Boozer.

@ joe

But I thought we just traded Amire to the Bucks?

I think the Lakers made a mistake with Ariza. For one thing, you know you can win a title with him. For another, you’ll need some young guys eventually for when Kobe retires.

To a lesser extent, Boston is making the same mistake with Big Baby. Although, Sheed is a great fit for them and Big Baby is probably never be a 36min a game starter like Ariza.

Losing Roscoe gives me bitchtwinkles. Cue that Boyz II Men. “It’s so hard to say goodbye to yesterday”. I need my shorty and my pirate fuel for this one. Slow dancing and alcohol.

QD,

I have a very strong dislike for Baby but what I do know is… he and Powe almost made up for KGs loss in the playoffs last season.

It’s hard to say whether Boston would struggle against CHI like they did with KG because it was Rose and Gordon who carved them up but… it’s easy to say that KG would’ve made the difference in Orlando. Having him in there he likely would’ve helped BOS win.

@joe:
If that’s the cast we might as well just trade Rip for Amire. Amire will have a bigger impact than Boozer.

Amare has a player option for ~$18 million through 2011. Boozer’s ~$13M expires in 2010. Join that with our expiring contracts and we have about $18M for free agents in 2010. With Amare, that isn’t guaranteed.

I also love how you knock Boozer for being a “loozer”, overpaid, injury prone— when all those adjectives describe Amare as well (without your cute spelling).

Boozer is a smarter choice economically, and could be extended for anywhere between $11M and $14M— unlike Amare, whose ego will demand a $20M contract or he’ll walk.

@ Mike Payne

Any chance we can trade Rip and Tay to Phoenix for Amare and Ben Wallace?

That way we can bring Ben back and he can be our center while Amare can be our PF…. and we can have like a re-birth of 2001 or something

I’m happy with the new Pistons. It seems like they have bottomed out and the team is shifting from decay to growth again. Maybe the team is far from a championship, maybe not, but at least it’s not filled with a roster full of players growing old and crabby together. Mo-Town Husk-ies! Mo-Town Husk-ies!

In a related note, the Hartford Courant now has a lot of good background on Pistons players. Google it or Bing it or whatever.

Also, what is pirate juice?

i’ve been way, way, way out of the country the past week, which worked out well in avoiding the michael jackson media frenzy, but bad in terms of missing out on “as the pistons turn.” i don’t usually do the pg/sg/sf blah blah blah list, but i feel like i need to to get my head around this:

pg: stuckey/bynum
sg: rip/gordon/afflalo
sf: tay/daye/summers/washington
pf: villa-no-hair-uh/max/sharpe
c: kwame

is that accurate? do we have that many small forwards? i put sharpe in the pf category, but i don’t think he should be there. frontline is austin daye thin.

if we do rip for boozer, we get the big man help we need, while giving us some cap flexibility for 2010 by getting rid of rip’s very long contract. seems ok to me.

can’t believe curry is gone. though i don’t think avery johnson expresses himself much better.

very well said JackDutch… welcome back

Kwame is the answer at center, btw

Pirate fuel is Wine straight from the bottle. Personal Jargon. ’Sheed makes me weep

Boney: I’m not saying a healthy Rasheed would of led anyone to the promise land. All I’m saying is that people are so quick to jump the gun on Rasheed before the analyze the rest of the team.

Quite frankly, this whole team is to blame and I repeat equally. Not one of these players a part of the core ever played to their full potential(post-2005 season) when we needed them the most.

@Jack Dutch:
Avery Johnson doesn’t need to express himself— he just punches you in the nuts.

Is Walter Herrmann not on the team any more? I don’t ever see him mentioned when we are putting up possible line-up for the upcoming season.

Again, Daye is the size of a PF and Sharpe is definitely not a PF. I would swap them two out.

Herrmann was not give an qualifying offer (it would have counted against cap space). He’s not expected back.

I’m guessing that Deron Washington, one of the rookies (Daye, Summers or Jerekbo) and possibly Trent Plaisted will be in the D-League.

where is this rip for boozer article?

So, when the rosters are announced at the beginning of the season, will any team have more changes than Detroit?

@Ctown:
http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&ncl=dKSczAj426WTN9M8eZ_yidRagDD_M&cf=all

TJ – Suns are expected to re-up on Nash but lost Shaq and Probably Grant Hill, Amare may be next.

Toledo, the Magic have lost about five players from the Finals roster.

Steve Kerr is an idiot. He definitely could have gotten more for Shaq considering how healthy he was last year. Not to mention why would you keep Steve Nash but shop Amare? There’s no logic in that because the Suns just won’t get what they want for Amare. Seriously, a promising young center, a guaranteed 3 point stroker, and 2 rotation players for one guy coming off an injury?

If anything, the Suns shop have drafted Jrue Holiday. That fixes their point guard of the future problem and then we get Earl Clark instead of Daye.

So the Suns have this right? Nash, Richardson, Barnes, Clark, Stoudamire w/ Barbosa and Lopez off the bench? Ouch.

Yup. See why Suns management are idiots?

C – Wallace
PF – Stoudemire
SF – Barnes
SG – Richardson
PG – Nash

SF/PF – Clark
PF/C – Lopez
PG/SG – Barbosa

What??? that’s a perfect lineup for 3 on 3

Actually Wallace will probably retire and Barnes is a FA and I haven’t heard about them re-signing him yet.

Good points about the Suns and Magic. But if Rip is traded for a big man starter, that means we’ll have three new starters — New Big Man, Gordon, and Charlie V. — and we would also have lost Amir and Hermann, two bench guys that did see some real minutes, at least in significant spurts, last year.

Ben is retiring. They have zero defense beyond Barnes, meaning at the pace they play at, they may score 110 but they’ll give up 130. I don’t think most people realize how important Shaq was to that team (which speaks for itself)

Toledo joe amir never say any significant minutes after getting demoted to the bench. Kwame and Maxiell took his spot in the rotation.

The biggest loss has to be Dyess, without him we would have gone 30 and 52. On the flip, we would have had a good draft pick. It may have been best to just let that season fly away and tank for a high lottery pick. That way you get a guy with Gordon’s ability for a fraction of the cost and can spend your money towards a big man.

Ali,

Did Antonio McDyess die?

Ali, 30-52 woulda had us picking around 7-8, and i don’t believe that Curry could give us gordon’s ability at a fraction of the cost.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having Bill Laimbeer as our head coach with Kuester and Thibodeau as his 2 top assistants. The offense and defense would be covered and Bill could learn on the fly. He has proven he is a smart guy by turning the Shock around from worst to first in ONE YEAR. I don’t care that it was the WNBA, what he did was still pretty remarkable. And then to go on and win 2 more championships was just validation of his status as a coach. I think he will be a great NBA coach and I think that with Keuster and Thibodeau as his assistants his transition to the faster pace of the NBA would go relatively smooth.

Thanks for the memories, Rasheed. Well, the good ones anyway.

Rasheed was an important part of the 2004 Championship. We needed an big who could stretch the court with his shooting as well as play with his back to the basket and chip in with solid defense. He was the perfect compliment to Ben Wallace.

As long as Ben was there, Rasheed was a small piece of the pie. After Ben left, Rasheed piece was getting bigger, and more importantly he was a complimentary piece to… no one. Now he had to be “that guy”. He was never “that guy” in Portland, and when Chauncy left as well Rasheed’s piece of the Pistons pie got too big and the team took on too much of his personality. The techs that were cute when the team was competing for championships now seemed out of control.

Rasheed leaving is at least 1 year too late in my opinion. After he checked out in the playoffs in 2007 against Cleveland, I was upset. After he checked out in the playoffs in 2008 against Boston, I was done with him.

I have to say, now that ’Sheed, Garnett, and Perkins are all on the same team, the “Crazy” quotient in Boston just went through the roof. Not to mention the Tech count.

Maybe they can get a anti-psychotic medication to sponsor the team?

Wait, Rip for Boozer is on the table? I mean, I could imagine comments along the lines of “this won’t solve all our problems” or “this is just rumor”.

But if it happens, the Pistons will be in a fantastic spot. I’ll take a one year flier on Boozer over on year with Iverson any day.

KronikJose, why would Kuester and Thibodeau leave their current jobs to be Laimbeer’s caddies?

money

“But if it happens, the Pistons will be in a fantastic spot. I’ll take a one year flier on Boozer over on year with Iverson any day.”

Exactly. I think we have a better team on the court next year and have a better long term outlook with Boozers expiring contract.

“But if it happens, the Pistons will be in a fantastic spot. I’ll take a one year flier on Boozer over on year with Iverson any day.”

I think any one would.

I’m all for it, we need another big man and we already have two quality 2 guards (Gordon & Stuckey).

And win or lose with Boozer, he still has an expiring contract for next summer and we will be in good position (again) for another strong FA market.

A Rip for Boozer trade would make the Pistons a young team with a lot of talent. Tay would be the oldest player on the team and no one would be over 30.

@QD:
Not to mention that we’d have 4 players on our team that could go for 30 on any given night in Stuckey, Gordon, Villanueva and Boozer. How our coach manages that offensive flow is beyond me— but I don’t know how that team would ever see a “scoring drought”. That’s necessary though, as none of those players are solid defenders.

PistonPowered claims we have more than 7 million in cap space this year.

If that’s accurate, we could take on more salary (Korver or Harpring)and help Utah save even more money. Their contracts are expiring, though, and I’m not sure if Harprings is fully guaranteed so I’m not sure Utah would want to trade them. It would be awesome to kill two birds with one stone, but I just don’t see why Utah would be willing to take on Rip’s contract. It’s too long. They would save money this year, but have very little flexibility moving forward.

“… I don’t know how that team would ever see a "scoring drought".

If Curry was still here, he could find a way. Bebounds!

yeah, the boozer deal seems like a set-up to not only compete now, but to also keep us in a position to win later with a younger lineup and a flexible cap. rip doesn’t want to be here anyway. between the chauncey trade and the benching, i think he’s ready to move on. it would really be the best move of the offseason.

as far as the coaching search, it seems like we need to find a different style of play to work with this lineup. if they’re truly looking to get faster and more uptempo, wouldn’t it make sense to hire a coach that reflects that style?

btw, we are shaping up to be a horrible defensive team.

@Colin

In that post Dan Feldman says we’d have $7 million in 2010-2011:

“If the cap returns to the 2008-09 number for the 2010-11 season , the Pistons would have more than $7 million in cap room.”

This year it seems we’re still somewhere between $3 million-$5 million depending on how low the salary cap dips.

@ Garrett: MC:“Uhhh… we godda make shawts….just make shawts….” followed by blank stare

Dumars must REALLY like kwame as a defensive center. Because otherwise, that move is shit. Plus side, there would be an expiring contract for getting someone in 2010. Maybe there are no trades for good centers available?

Boney,

I became a Pistons fan when they acquired Sheed. I followed Sheed before and will do the same now. I’m still going to root for the Pistons, but they arent my Pistons anymore. My favorite player was and is Sheed, but after that came Chauncey, Tayshaun, and Amir. The Stones are now a shadow of the group I liked.

With that said, I was a good fan over the past few years and didnt jump ship or flame out at small things. I’d rather not be lumped with anyone else.

“Not to mention that we’d have 4 players on our team that could go for 30 on any given night in Stuckey, Gordon, Villanueva and Boozer.”

I would add Bynum to that list.

Lucas,

You’re not being lumped in with anyone else. Petey is already gone, and so is david stern. They left when AI was benched permanently.

It’s ok to have a favorite player, as long as his name isn’t Allen Iverson and you believe palming the ball and dribbling over your head to be actual skills that players must have in order to be successful.

God speed Lucas… it’s a dangerous world out there my son

@QD:
I would add Bynum to that list. I should have said “4 starters”, but absolutely— MFWB is totally capable of the same.

@ everyone on the “we can get 30 a night from anyone” bandwagon…

Let’s slow our rolls down a bit…

Lucas, No disrespect intended but that is in effect the NBA marketing campaign. Follow our stars not your team or team ball. David Stern has decided to market the NBA into Hollywood. Come see the black mamba score 40… oh and by the way did a basket ball game happen. It is the bedrock (at least until now) of the Pistons organization to run those potential highlight players through the meat grinder that is defense ( I miss hand-checking). Yes there is some practicality to it from a business standpoint but that is also what leads the conspiracy theorists to get closer to the mark of credibility concerning zebra rigging. All in all it is nothing personal but this follow the star mentality touches a raw nerve that only seems to degrade the game from a romantic stand point and by the practical ways that Stern shuffles the rules et. al. to fit the campaign and those that find it glam. Rosco will be missed and I loved him on the team until he decided that he was essentially working a basketball factory job. However, The Celtics have their place in history and have been ressurected for Pistons fans as satans left testicle. I cant go out and buy them a new pair of fancy undies just because they what I think is the prettiest baller on the block. No I say! This is when the Pistons fans forget mercy and go for the jugular (equally commercial but at least from the team standpoint basketball as a game is recognizable as something other than kabuki theatre. Good Luck with the C’s. I just hope for your sake Roscoe doesn’t take up a position with the Washington Generals after he’s done with them.

Boney, even without the trade, Rip is capable of 30/night too. Unfortunately, 4 of those players capable of 30/night would all be guards with only 96 minutes (plus about 12 at SF) between them.

I know it’s old hat, but I kind of wish we would have taken this guy:

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/07/06/tyler-hansbrough-makes-his-pacers-debut/

How? The Pacers picked ahead of us, it was impossible to get him.

I knew will Bynum was going to be epic ever since he crossed over KG and waltzed his way to the bucket. But play 30 minutes a night, starting every game? I don’t think he could keep it up because of the extremely high intensity he plays at. You could tell he was laboring after playing high minutes in consecutive games. But this is another reason why I don’t like the Ben Gordon trade, now you take minutes away from a guy that actually tries his hardest on defense for a lesser version of a young AI.

Who would you want in a Pistons Uniform? Boozer or Okur

The reason I ask that is, if you got to give up your best player wouldn’t you want the most for him?

I’m tried of everybody comparing Gordan to AI. Gordan has a better shot and know how to play team ball, even if he’s got come off the bench.

@joe:
Who would you want in a Pistons Uniform? Boozer or Okur

Carlos Boozer puts up 20/10 in the post, is 27 and has a $13M expiring contract. That gets us a) out of Rip’s 5 year deal, b) a post-dominant PF who regularly outperforms KG and c) $18 million + to play with in the 2010 free agent market.

Boozer, please. That is “getting the most out of giving up rip”.

I’m tried of everybody comparing Gordan to AI.

Gordon is undersized, doesn’t defend, needs the ball to score and takes questionable shots. Just like AI.

Mike as much as I hate KG, Boozer is no where near the caliber of player KG was at the same age. There’s a reason why KG was making $20 + mil a year at the time and Boozer struggles to get over $12 from a guy that loves to overpay free agents.

I liken Boozer to guys like Troy Murphy, minus the 3 point shooting. Believe it or not, but Boozer takes more perimeter jump shots than his entire inside game combined. Not to mention he plays zero defense. He is a great rebounder, but his one on one stats are awful, especially opposing PER and eFG%.

@Ali:
Dude, when did I compare Boozer to KG? I never said they were similar. I said that “Boozer regularly outperforms KG”— in matchups between teams, Boozer scored more points at higher levels of efficiency, grabbed more rebounds, etc. when it comes to playing Boston next season with KG healthy, Boozer has excelled against him in recent years.

Also, FWIW, Boozer is a bad ass against CLE too.

Unless if I’m guaranteed that Boozer is healthy for 82 games, I personally would take Okur. He’s got better range, is a smart player (like Sheed) that doesn’t rely on athleticism and does a very good job guarding PF (mediocre for centers).

The only real problem with Okur is his lack of a true post game; he’s like Big Z, but less bald and more mobile.

I thought you meant he was the better overall player, not that he was top notch at that particular match up. Makes sense.

I’m still not sold on his health status just yet, I’d like to wait until summer training camp rolls by and get a status report from Utah’s training staff.

More importantly I’m very skeptical of his defense. Look at these numbers
http://www.82games.com/0809/08UTA11.HTM

Unless if the lack of defense was directly tied to his injuries, his one on one numbers are just as bad as Ben Gordon’s.

@Ali:
Believe it or not, but Boozer takes more perimeter jump shots than his entire inside game combined.

54% of his shots were jumpers, the other 46% came from inside. I see no reason to complain about that, especially since he converted at 44% on those jumpers.

Compare that to a few other PFs:
54% of Carlos Boozer’s shots were jumpers
57% of Tim Duncan’s shots were jumpers
72% of Kevin Garnett’s shots were jumpers
76% of Troy Murphy’s shots were jumpers

Offensively, Carlos Boozer’s shot selection couldn’t be more remote from Troy Murphy— and even Kevin Garnett.

Interesting, I would have thought that Tim Duncan took more inside shots. Most be a product of old age.

Putting the numbers in retrospect, they do seem much better. But still who do you play at center? We still have no defense, especially no shot blocking.

“Interesting, I would have thought that Tim Duncan took more inside shots. Most be a product of old age.”

No, it’s just that the vast majority of big men aren’t going to have a great offensive game unless they have a steady jump shot. Otherwise, defenders can just work on keeping them 8 ft. away from the basket. Dwight Howard and Shaq are once-in-a-decade exceptions.

You know, another guy with a post game who’s been overlooked is Walter Sharpe. I doubt you get more than 10-15 solid minutes a game out of him, but he is athletic with a refined post game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT3wxFmJBI8

@Ali:
But still who do you play at center? We still have no defense, especially no shot blocking.

You’re right, we don’t have any shot blocking, but Kwame Brown is serviceable on defense and big enough to clog up the lane for slashing guards. Our team is pretty fucked already with BG and CV joining us, and without a new coach yet our defensive identity is questionable at best.

MP, I’m usually with you, but there is one critical difference between Gordon and AI and that’s shooting. I’m mixed on all the off-season moves and I don’t yet have an opinion on this Gordon thing, but he shoots a full 10% better from 3 than AI for his career and a higher FG% on 2 fewer FGA per 36. His eFG% and TS% are also much better than Iverson’s. Plus he agreed to come here for a “super-sub” role (yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it and all that, but we’re off to a much better start than the AI experiment). Gordon is giving us a dimension to our offense that was sorely missing last year. Let’s see how it goes before we go off the deep end calling this AI-redux.

@OM:
Let’s see how it goes before we go off the deep end calling this AI-redux.

Of course! I’m absolutely not saying they are the same player— but when Joe complained above about people comparing Gordon and AI, I thought that was ignorant of the similarities between the two players. Yes, Ben’s range makes him a different type of player, albeit with some common ground on the negative end.

@LB: Doh! I missed that in my skim of the article. Thanks for the clarification. Still think it’s unlikely that Utah would take Rip’s contract, regardless.

That’s how I see it, MP. Gordon and Iverson have similar weaknesses, but Gordon is a much better player now. Plus he’s going to be in his prime for the duration of his Pistons contract. Unfortunately, the AI experiment was so disastrous—there were so few positives—that it’s very difficult to predict how Gordon will fit in, or rather how he will fit in before Rip is traded.

By the way, MP, I have arrived in Chicago. Let the beer flow. Joel—you too.

@PS:
I’ll be back for a visit in August— I’ll get ahold of you and Joel and we’ll hit up the Map Room, Hop Leaf or otherwise. I’m in!!!! Joel, if you’re lucky, maybe we’ll hit up some LARP action.

More beer, less LARP.

So according to RealGM, Pistons are still in talks with Utah over Rip/Boozer trades. I’ll call this trade in the trade squares game that we don’t have going but you can all bow down to me if this happens:

3 team trade:

- Rip to Utah
- Boozer to Charlotte (cap space)
- Okafor to Detroit (Okafor has the longest and biggest contract on Charlotte’s squad)
- Deron Washington to Charlotte (this isn’t necessary in this trade scenario but would help sweeten the pot giving Charlotte someone with a similar high-flying style that they already like in Gerald Wallace).

Gives us a defensive minded center who is an efficient scorer and rebounding machine. Averages almost 2 blocks per game and is a legitimate sized center at 6’10" 250…Works out salary wise as well.

“Gordon is undersized, doesn’t defend, needs the ball to score and takes questionable shots. Just like AI.”

I don’t like that phrase “needs the ball to score.” Doesn’t everyone need the ball to score?

Anyway, I think a big difference between Gordon and AI is that like his UConn predecessors Rip and Ray Allen, BG is very good at coming off screens and knocking down shots. So, I think he can score off the ball too.

What I like about his offense is that he’s equally capable of shooting off-the-dribble or in catch-and-shoot situations. AI could only shoot off-the-dribble.

does charlotte even want to get rid of okafor? the only place i have heard okafor trade rumors is on this site. i don’t really understand why they would want to deal a perfectly fine big man.

I saw a player profile on NBA TV one time of Emeka Okafor and it was really patronizing. They focused on how he likes to “read” these things called “books”! It was crazy!

I don’t like that phrase "needs the ball to score." Doesn’t everyone need the ball to score?

Here’s what I mean, numbers from 2008-09:

Rip Hamilton: 70% of his shots were assisted
Ray Allen: 69% of his shots were assisted

Ben Gordon: 45% of his shots were assisted

Anyway, I think a big difference between Gordon and AI is that like his UConn predecessors Rip and Ray Allen, BG is very good at coming off screens and knocking down shots. So, I think he can score off the ball too.

Obviously, the lower the percentage of assisted shots, the more than player needed to control the ball to score. The higher the number, the more that player is reliant on passing and off-the-ball movement. Statistically, Gordon has shown that he needs control of the ball to score more often than not.

45% isn’t that bad for a guard of his skill set. He’s in a similar range to the Joe Johnsons, the Vince Carters of the world— scorers who can hit the three and drive. Statistically, he’s much more similar to AI than he is to either of the UCONN players you mentioned, Rip and Ray.

Interestingly enough, I looked into this further as I became interested in the statistical representation of Rip and Ray’s style of play. I thought about Reggie Miller, so I looked it up— 92% of his shots were assisted. Unreal! I can understand why he was so heralded for his off-the-ball movement.

(also, one could argue that Gordon might have not had a proper backcourt distributor to get him the ball when he’s open. note, however that rip actually took more assisted shots with stuckey this season than he did with chauncey last season, and Derrick Rose was a slightly better distributor than Stuckey was this season)

Will we really say goodbye to Rip, too?

Goodbye, rather.

To add to Paynes post…..
Hamilton would fit perfect in Utah and Phoenix’s system. He needs a distributing point guard and detroit in just not as competant in that regard. I love him going to utah for boozer. He still has plenty to prove and his numbers are nice. I would definetly like okur but that wont happen if they retain millsap, hes too good.
Something will happen, this roster is uneven, and not even joe dumars can afford another season like last….

Villanueva Photoshops, too.

No no rumors about Okafor, just a pipedream really. But there are plenty of reasons for Charlotte to trade him (none of these are cited by any means, just examples):

- cheap owner
- not getting it done the past 2 years with Okafor/Wallace
- stupid GM
- clearing cap space for 2010 free agency
- belief that boozer can replace what Okafor bring to the table

If they did in fact get some additional talent, then that makes it that much better. But there have been trade speculations around Okafor since last off-season.

Off-topic but Jonas Jerebko is wearing #33, a number that had laid dormant for 9 years since Grant Hill left.

@James B:
Not to mention that Charlotte has two C’s behind Okafor in Mohammed and Diop. Yeah, they both suck, but they’ve started for title contenders deep into the playoffs. Might make a cheap owner and a dumb gm more likely to move Okafor (which is a huge mistake by that dumb gm, imo).

I’m am all for okafor if he can be had. We need a defensive minded guy out there. I think if they want to move him they will want a lil more than a boozer 1yr rental. That might just be me over valuing him though based on my growing desperation for a big man.

That fanhouse link about Shaun Livingston made me go back and watch the video of his injury. God that is still cringe inducing.

Hmmmm. Weren’t a lot of Detroit’s past offensive slumps exasperated by the fact that no player could effectively create his own shot? Thus couldn’t you argue it’s a good thing that more than half of Gordon’s field goals don’t need an assist?

Well yes and no. Gordon is great in that regard, but so is Villanueva. He can also create his own shot.

But more importantly Gordon is awful defensively, due to a combination of height (he’s repotedly 5’11" without shoes) and lack of desire. I think you can coax better defense out of him, but unless if his name is Joe Dumars, you can’t expect spectacular defense from an undersized guard.

@TDP

I hope Villanueva does better than the last player that wore #31.

Pistons are set to decide on the coach today. Reports say if they can’t reach an agreement with Johson, Keuster is set to become head coach.

I like the brains of Keuster, but I have a feeling he doesn’t have that leadership quality about him. Otherwise why would he continue to be second banana, to guys like Mike Brown? Mike Brown is an idiot that constantly fucking whines about Le-I-aint-got-no-fucking-jump-shot-Bron not getting enough calls when he lead the playoffs in foul shots. Not to mention, head coaches make far more money. So I can’t imagine that people would just elect to be only an assistant coach.

That’s a major concern if I’m Joe Dumars.

Off-topic but Jonas Jerebko is wearing #33, a number that had laid dormant for 9 years since Grant Hill left.