Should Dumars consider Dave Cowens?
by Matt W on Jul 7, 2009 5:58 AM CDT
132 comments
When Joe Dumars canned Michael Curry, he gave himself an unofficial deadline of a week to settle on a new coach. Well, today's the day, and as this post goes to press, there's still a vacancy at the end of the bench. Doug Collins backed out, Avery Johnson seems to want too much money and Tom Thibodeau and John Kuester, despite a combined 36 years on NBA sidelines as assistants, are naively regarded by the ticket-buying public as "inexperienced."
So what's a guy to do? If you're Chris McCosky, it's Dave Cowens time:
This is a Hall-of-Fame player who has had two stints as a head coach, one a success in Charlotte, the other a mess in Golden State.
This is a man who has paid his dues, a man who has learned more from his mistakes and from the mistakes of the other coaches he's worked for than he probably has from his successes. He's more ready to coach now, in terms of knowledge, energy and temperament, than he ever was.
Plus, he's intimately familiar with the players on this team and the structure of the organization having been here for two seasons.
[...] His opinions and suggestions last season were sought by many of the players last season, especially Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess, even if they weren't often solicited by Curry.
I believe Curry could have saved himself some grief if he had allowed Cowens to have more input.
Technically Cowens has three stints as an NBA head coach -- he was a player coach with the Celtics back when such things still existed in 1978-79. And, if you really want to split hairs, he also guided the WNBA's Chicago Sky to a 5-29 record during the franchise's expansion season in 2006.
In any case, if Curry was shutting Cowens out last year, it may help explain why Cowens was reassigned from Curry's staff to a front office position the week before Curry was fired. With Curry out of the picture, perhaps Cowens might return to the bench.
But as a head coach? I'm not sure he has a fresh enough voice to invigorate the roster (or the fans), no matter how much the veterans respected him last year. The past three years have been three of the most disappointing years in Pistons history, and Cowens has had a first-hand look from the bench the entire time. Whether it's fair or not, there's something to be said from simply starting fresh.
I'm not sure that means Avery Johnson, the presumed favorite, is a better alternative. Despite a pair of 60-win seasons with the Mavericks, Johnson has only four years of coaching experience at any level, and it showed in the way he managed game-plans and tried to rule the locker room with an iron fist when the going got rough.
Maybe those episodes have helped him mature as a head coach, but that's as much of a gamble as rolling the dice on a guy like Thibodeau or Kuester, who have spent decades upon decades coaching on the collegiate and professional level -- especially when you consider these next few years for the Pistons will be as much about teaching and developing as actually contending.
There are no sure things in this process (well, short of coaxing Jeff Van Gundy away from the broadcaster's booth or dipping Hubie Brown into the fountain of youth), and crossing viable candidates who happen to lack NBA head coaching experience off the list simply because Michael Curry was an abject failure would needlessly compound the mistake of hiring Curry in the first place.
Update: Johnson is officially off the list:
"Where we are right now as a team is kind of like where we were at the start of the Rick Carlisle era," Dumars said. "And a $4 to $5 million (a year) coach is not what we need right now. We didn't have one of those until we were close to contending for a championship when we got Larry (Brown)."
Dumars said the coach probably will be either John Kuester, the former Pistons assistant now with the Cavaliers, or Tom Thibodeau, a Celtics assistant
0 recs |
132 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Cowens definitely earned his pay check from his work with Kwame alone. But I’m not sold on him as a head coach just yet; just because you have the Xs and Os doesn’t make you a good coach. Of course in Michael Curry’s case, that was a requirement that he failed.
by Ali on Jul 7, 2009 8:08 AM CDT reply actions
And for that same reason I’m not sold on Keuster either. There has to be a reason why a guy with his brains has not been a head coach before. Nobody chooses to take a lower salary for 20 years.
by Ali on Jul 7, 2009 8:10 AM CDT reply actions
by Rotten Atom on Jul 7, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions
Wow. Fail. Did not see that coming at all. Maybe JVG is the better coach?
by Ali on Jul 7, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions
Let’s just weigh the credentials of the two men involved in the OP.
Avery Johnson: although his teams have struggled in the Playoffs, he repeatedly took his team there. He’s good at developing young talent, he finds ways to get the maximum out of role players, and he’s even managed superstars effectively.
Dave Cowens: Almost all of his teams have tanked. He was a part of this past season’s coaching staff, which completely lost the respect of the players as the team spiraled out of control. His ‘accomplishments’ are listed by Matt and others above, so no need to repeat them. The only thing I can see as a pro is his success as a big man’s coach.
In my view, we need a clean slate moving forward. Last season was a debacle; moving forward, we don’t need a coach who was associated with that. That alone is enough to convince me, frankly. But even beyond that, we can’t just ignore the fact that Cowens has had very, very, very little success as a coach, and like him or not, Avery has had quite a bit. Plus, Avery seems to fit our needs (developing young talent, maximizing role players, managing stars).
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 9:00 AM CDT reply actions
brgulker, you forget that Avery lost his team after losing in the first round of the playoffs. He called out Dirk, and Dirk started to cry and eventually cried so much that Cuban fired Johnson to stop the flooding of his office.
I personally think that was more because Dirk is a loser that is too soft to be a true superstar, but it does show that Avery is a hard ass that doesn’t like insolence.
Now I personally think he’s the best candidate because short of Pat Riley, Gregg Popovich or Larry Brown, he’s more than likely the best coach for developing Stuckey into a real point guard and a leader on the floor. Stuckey has to become more aggressive and more vocal on the court before he can become a “star”, and I think Johnson can bring that out of him.
But once again you have to be careful when putting a hardass on a young transitioning team. You get one of two results; first is that everyone become tough, physical players that will routinely contend in the playoffs because of their defense and unwillingness to back down, second would be a total melt down of the players’ selfesteem.
by Ali on Jul 7, 2009 9:13 AM CDT reply actions
If you trying to sell a coach to Detroit the people Bill Laimbeer is our man. He is a Detroit Piston For Life and his WNBA success proved he can coach. He is hard nosed and shares Joe Dumars passion for “DETROIT BASKETBALL”
by jaywag2 on Jul 7, 2009 9:17 AM CDT reply actions
I personally think that was more because Dirk is a loser that is too soft to be a true superstar, but it does show that Avery is a hard ass that doesn’t like insolence…
But once again you have to be careful when putting a hardass on a young transitioning team. You get one of two results; first is that everyone become tough, physical players that will routinely contend in the playoffs because of their defense and unwillingness to back down, second would be a total melt down of the players’ selfesteem.
Personally, I think Avery being a “hard ass” is a pro, not a con. Take the back-to-back finals appearances with one chip: who was the coach? What was his style? And did we get the most out of our players that way?
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 9:52 AM CDT reply actions
brgulker: I agree with the hard ass thought. But remember LB also had the buyin of Shee cause of Carolina Blue connections and his outstanding background. I think Avery is viewed as riding Dirk’s coattails and perhaps doesn’t get enough credit.
I think if Cowens was an option, he’d be the coach right now.
by MarkButter in SoCal on Jul 7, 2009 9:56 AM CDT reply actions
McCoskey needs to remember that in Flip’s final year many players were singing Michael Curry’s praises. It’s natural to go to an assistant coach when you’ve completely tuned out the head coach.
I’m definitely in the camp that thinks we need a fresh start.
by Jim on Jul 7, 2009 10:00 AM CDT reply actions
There’s also something to be said about Dirk’s softness.
I mean, as far as hard asses go, Avery’s not at the top of the list. I certainly don’t view him as any more of a hard ass than my high school or college coach, for that matter.
Bluntly: NBA players get coddled. Mistakes are tolerated. Outbursts are expected. (Sound like any of our former players?) A coach like Avery — who doesn’t tolerate all that — gets labeled a hard ass, but really, that’s exactly what a coach should be.
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 10:05 AM CDT reply actions
I remember listening to this interview with Bill Laimbeer last year and just looked it up and listened again. It’s a good one:
http://www.indycornrows.com/2008/9/18/617357/bill-laimbeer-and-larry-bi
I still think Laimbeer would be a good coach, he understands that he can’t coach the way he played and that he can’t be overbearing. Also I like that he learned his lessons as a future coach as a player under Chuck Daly (the main one being: not to micro-manage). Curry’s main coaching influence was Doug Collins, one of the most overbearing coaches in history, and we saw a lot of the negative consequences of that coaching philosophy. Also Laimbeer can speak intelligently about the game of basketball, a talent Curry lacked, which I think would help Laimbeer do a better job.
by Gabe on Jul 7, 2009 10:15 AM CDT reply actions
As for developing Stuck’s PG abilities and persona, I think Avery might help. Stuck wasn’t going to be that leader while CB was here and certainly not last year with all the drama. It just depends on what kind of leader Stuck is going to be. The deonstrative Magic or B-Diddy type or quite Stockton/Kidd type. I don’t think Tay minds taking a backseat with him on the floor nor Rip. But in the end it will depend on the decisions Stuck makes on the floor, his ability to recognize what the “right” play is and the effort he puts into it off the floor.
If he becomes a 17/8 guy, there probably won’t be a problem. If he’s a 20/5 guy for a team that is looking to re-establish it’s identity, then that might be a problem for this team. Another factor will be when his contract is up and how it is handled by the organization and he and for the amount. If he blows up this year and is in the papers poppin’ off, that’s not going to sit well. He doesn’t strike me as having that demeanor, but how he goes and reacts with changes and challenges will tell us what this version of the pistons will become.
Last year he wasn’t going to be able to tell Sheed or AI where to post or if they had blown a D assignment. That just wasn’t going to happen. This year with the younger players and signees, he can be more vocal and with the right coach backing him up, a very positive sign in his development if he chooses to.
by MarkButter in SoCal on Jul 7, 2009 10:32 AM CDT reply actions
I say get the boston assistant coach. Get the guy other teams have interviewed. If he’s the hot candidate in the mix for other teams why not put him on the bench. The Pistons aren’t going deep in the playoffs next year so hire tom thibideau and see if he can get the job done for now. Rick carlisle wasn’t a known candidate for other jobs when joe hired him, this guy is so hire him before another team does. Get the Larry Brown type coach when the team needs that extra push over the top just like Joe did in 2004. That worked out well.
by cameron on Jul 7, 2009 10:58 AM CDT reply actions
Negotiations have broken off with Avery…
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4311090
It looks like Kuester is probably the guy.
by Jamison on Jul 7, 2009 11:17 AM CDT reply actions
Avery Johnson officially out of the race:
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/07/souce_pistons_will_not_hire_av.html
by Gables on Jul 7, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions
by Big Fritz on Jul 7, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions
Yeah, I am more comfortable with Lamb than with any of the other candidates outside of Avery. He’s proven his basketball Knowledge. And we Know for sure that he is not going to “coddle” remember Swin Cash was traded because she couldn’t get with Lamb’s Program. She was the star of the team. So I definitely feel that Lamb has the leadership abilities for the job. And yes I would blame Dirk more for the lost to miami and golden state. Wade hit the nail on the head when He called Dirk soft, and said that he was not a leader. When I think of the Mavs, yeah usually Dirk comes to mind but You certainly dont think of him as a floor general.
by scntfc on Jul 7, 2009 11:22 AM CDT reply actions
My favorite thing about John Kuester may be that he coached 88-89 George Washington Colonels to the worst record in NCAA history, going 1-27.
by Gables on Jul 7, 2009 11:31 AM CDT reply actions
One of Joe’s comments is what weirds me out.
Need4Sheed was at the presser, and Joe reportedly said something like,
"Where we are right now as a team is kind of like where we were at the start of the Rick Carlisle era," Dumars said. "And a $4 to $5 million (a year) coach is not what we need right now. We didn’t have one of those until we were close to contending for a championship when we got Larry (Brown)."
Isn’t he essentially saying that he’s looking for a temp? Why would he say that, and who would want that job?
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 11:43 AM CDT reply actions
Joe Dumars need to stop wasting Pistons money on his bestfriends like Curry and get a real Coach in Detroit! So as for Dave Cowens, no he should not be the next Coach.
by joe on Jul 7, 2009 11:52 AM CDT reply actions
After the Michael Curry Experi(ence)ment, Joe can’t afford to stick Cowens in there, this thread proves that. Hiring Cowens would be a supreme Dumb out.
Joe, I know you hate Jod, but he fired Curry and hasn’t hired another “bestfriend” yet, so chill son. Wait-an-see.
by Skylar on Jul 7, 2009 11:58 AM CDT reply actions
Isn’t he essentially saying that he’s looking for a temp? Why would he say that, and who would want that job?
Lambs.
by Rob G on Jul 7, 2009 12:02 PM CDT reply actions
Personally, I don’t want anyone that was part of the previous regime as the new head coach. Sure, Cowens has previous head coaching experience, and also was an assistant under Flip, but the 1 year Michael Curry Era was such a disaster that I have no interest in anyone from that bench being back as the head.
by Chuck on Jul 7, 2009 12:02 PM CDT reply actions
Michael Curry has poisoned everything associated with him.
by Rob G on Jul 7, 2009 12:03 PM CDT reply actions
uggh. not the news i was hoping for. i don’t mind trying something different instead of re-hiring guys who’ve already been fired before, but it’s starting to sound like nobody wants to be our coach.
by Craig on Jul 7, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions
Let’s admit the obviious, going on your 5th or 6th coach in 9 years isn’t going to open up the flood gates for potential HOF coaches, particularly given our roster.
NBA coaching is a fraternity and it’s hard to pentrate that plucking guys from here and there without ever hurting your chances at hiring coaches in the future. And very few coaches are going to rish burning that fraternity bridge by stabbing a fellow coach in the back, if the need arises.
Besides, your Avery and pulling down a cool 8-10M for the next two years from Cuban and making cash doing TNT/ESPN. Are you going to risk that to work for a guy that has a rebuilding plan knowing odds are you’ll be flushed just before you’re able to share the fruits of your efforts? And if it doesn’t happen you’ll be the scapegoat? Curry was a bad fit, Jod knew (unless a chip appeared) that sheed would be gone this year and if he had just let Flip run his contract out this year (I believe), he wouldn’t be in the predicament.
At the end of the day if Jod is going to let the team grow and mature for the next 2 years, he’s going to have to allow the coach to have the feeling, that he too, will not be jettisoned just as the team jells.
by MarkButter in SoCal on Jul 7, 2009 12:29 PM CDT reply actions
So what’s the consensus on Cowers’ value? He coached up Kwame pretty well, but couldn’t achieve anything with Amir, due in no small part to Amir’s Basketball IQ and overall mental approach to the game?
by Skylar on Jul 7, 2009 12:40 PM CDT reply actions
Why is no one talking about Tom Thibodeau? If I were Joe, I’d try everything I could to get him. According to Yahoo and ESPN, he’s being considered, but behind Kuester.
Really? Why does that make sense? Kuester helped preside over one of the worst coaching jobs in playoff history. Thibodeau has a ring and is the real brains behind the current Celtics team. Think about it: Doc Rivers was an unbelievably terrible coach fore years before Thibodeau joined him in ‘08. He was a laughingstock and was close to being fired. All of a sudden, with Thibodeau, the Celtics are a great defensive team and win an NBA Championship. Yes, I know KG and Posey had a fair amount to do with that, but KG didn’t get Perk, Powe, Big Baby, Pierce, and Rondo to play D. Thibodeau did. He’s the perfect guy to keep our defensive image and get our young guys to play defense.
by Thom on Jul 7, 2009 12:41 PM CDT reply actions
Coaches in the NBA disposable. There is no real fraternity they are looking to get PAID. Johnson had a better hand ($8mil from the Mavs, ESPN gig), Joe D saved his chips and folded.
by Big Fritz on Jul 7, 2009 12:46 PM CDT reply actions
My dad has been saying for 2 years now that Cowens should get the job. He always remarks on how the past coaches dont even let him talk during timeouts. I do think Dave Cowens should get the job. Even if he doesnt do well I still think he deserved the job.
by Ronnie D. on Jul 7, 2009 12:46 PM CDT reply actions
Big Fritz a LOT like coachDP. nice COMBO of missing verbs and all CAPS. just epinion
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 12:52 PM CDT reply actions
I don’t get your statement, Fritz.
Phil Jackson is pretty much the antithesis of that. He’s paid very well, but has more gold rings than Slick Rick, Ghostface Killah and Big Daddy Kane combined. He can write his own ticket, he even has Jerry Buss considering having Phil only coaching home games due to Jackson’s deteriorating body.
by Skylar on Jul 7, 2009 12:52 PM CDT reply actions
@Fritz: Johnson had the better hand. I guess it was because of the length of the contract from what I hear. As to the fraternity, coaches have long memories and once you’re in, you typically stay in. From a GM perspective, they’re disposable. From a coach to asst coach perspective, until you get that head coach position and do something with it, the fraternity exists.
by MarkButter in SoCal on Jul 7, 2009 12:52 PM CDT reply actions
lol@PS
Since JVG has never been in the running, I sort of psyched myself up for Avery. Now that he’s out, I’m actually kind of disappointed! I think Laimbeer is the way to go now. If it’s between two career assistants with no head coaching experience, and an ex-player with championships and championship coaching experience, I’d have to go with Laimbeer. Which means it probably won’t happen and I should just brace myself for Random Coach X, someone who Jod plucks out of obscurity, once again thinking he’s found a diamond in the rough and outsmarted everyone.
by Garrett on Jul 7, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions
He’s sure winning over the experienced coaches, that Joe Dumars.
by Sauce1977 on Jul 7, 2009 1:05 PM CDT reply actions
The only coach candidate name that’s flying below the radar is Bill Laimbeer. He paid his dues Joe. That’s what its all about in Detroit work hard have success and get promoted. Mr. Davidson (RIP) would definitely approve. Joe what are you waiting for?
Dave Cowens is a good assistant coach. He is valuable and we should keep him on the bench next to Coach Laimbeer.
by jaywag2 on Jul 7, 2009 1:06 PM CDT reply actions
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Kuester and Thibodeau have NO experience. Like MW says, they’ve been assistants for a long time. And Kuester has coached in college.
The knock I’ve read on Thibodeau is that he’s overbearing and doesn’t relate to players well. Take that for what it’s worth because I have no idea.
As for Kuester, he was a part of the championship run under Larry Brown so he has that going for him.
by Quick Darshan on Jul 7, 2009 1:18 PM CDT reply actions
Its too bad Isaih Thomas has burned so many bridges with the Pistons he’s actually not a bad coach just a lousy GM.has a problem dealing with women tho, well whoever we get ( I vote for Lamb) they got to be better then Curry.
by Defor on Jul 7, 2009 1:19 PM CDT reply actions
A lot of the coaching carousel is not Dumars’ fault. Irvine was Rick Sund’s guy. Carlisle was essentially fired by Tom Wilson. LB essentially fired himself, but it was Mr. D. who sent him packing. Flip had to succeed LB and never really had the respect of his players (and with his track record, who could blame them). MC’s hire was premature, that one’s on Dumars, but in his defense, the AI trade made it impossible for him to succeed.
As for his “we don’t need a $4-$5m/yr coach” statement, well, Joe is usually smoother than this. What I think he meant was that with next year’s FA class, there will likely be a number of more appealing choices as a head coach. Also, Mrs D. might’ve just said no to a 4-yr deal, but I suspect that Avery’s nature might have had something to do with no deal being done.
Actually, to a certain extent, Lam wouldn’t be a bad choice. Consider that guys who are career assistants usually are that way for a reason, and Dumars is between a rock and hard place.
by V on Jul 7, 2009 1:27 PM CDT reply actions
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4311090
It’s likely Kuester.
by Birdman on Jul 7, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions
@MP I don’t know about his basketball acumen, but M.C. Ricky D is the original Bad Boy. His gold fronts, Star ring and fucked-up eye would instill confusion and fear in the weak hearts and inferior minds of the NBA eastern conference.
by Skylar on Jul 7, 2009 1:35 PM CDT reply actions
Wikipedia already has Kuester as the next Pistons coach.
“On July 7, 2009, Kuester was hired away from the Cavs in order to become the Pistons’ new head coach. He is the Pistons’ 6th head coach in the past 10 years.”
It must be true!
by joejoejoe on Jul 7, 2009 1:44 PM CDT reply actions
If I know Joe, He has a back-up, I just can’t fiqure who he would
have – Sam Mitchell, Dell Harris, Hubie Brown etc….?
Joe put himself into this corner – Damn if you do, damn if you don’t.
You hire Carlisle – no experience coaching experience = Curry,
You hire Brown – He wore out his welcome w/players & Mr.D = Flip,
Please no Mike Fratello or Van Gundy- NO RETREADS
by fitnessrunner on Jul 7, 2009 1:45 PM CDT reply actions
Fitnessrunner, Avery Johnson was the back up. Doug Collins was his first option.
by Ali on Jul 7, 2009 1:54 PM CDT reply actions
Isn’t Kuester pronounced KEE-ster, like the thing you sit on?
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 1:56 PM CDT reply actions
“Kuester played four seasons with the UNC Tar Heels under head coach Dean Smith, for whom he won two ACC championships and helped reach the NCAA Tournament four times,”
So… is Rasheed SURE he wants to play for the C’s next year? The guy IS a Tar Heel…
PS,
It’s pronounced QUE-ster according to wikipedia!
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 2:05 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah, I saw Wikipedia’s pronunciation guide, but I thought it had to be wrong. Pronouncing “Kuester” as CUE-ster is like pronouncing “Boney” as Boh-NAY.
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 2:09 PM CDT reply actions
Boney, I was thinking the same thing.
I don’t know anything about the guy, but from what I’ve read:
John Kuester
Positives:
-He was part of the 04-05 staff that went the Finals two years in a row.
-Cleveland’s offense looked a lot better last year with a lot more movement and he’s credited with designing it.
-Played and has been an assistant for a while in the NBA.
Negatives:
-Undistinguished career as a college head coach.
-No NBA head coaching experience.
by Quick Darshan on Jul 7, 2009 2:12 PM CDT reply actions
Can we stop giving him credit for the cavs offense last season? Did you guys see them in the orlando series? Bron, iso. Bron, jumper. Bron, iso. I mean, if this guy deserves credit, he certainly deserves some criticism.
by Craig on Jul 7, 2009 2:16 PM CDT reply actions
I hope we hire the guy just so I can write things like ‘Q-star was a good hire by Jod but much of the credit for our success goes to MFWB and Spellcheck’ in the comments and expect people to understand.
by joejoejoe on Jul 7, 2009 2:20 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah, I’m not impressed with the Cavalier’s offense either. It reminded me a lot of the Chicago Bulls vaunted 2007 offense where Kirk Hinrich would drive the lane and kick it out to Deng for an open jumper, or BG for an open 3.
Or BG would drive it and kick it out to Hinrich for an open 3…
I’m going to hate Kuester if our offense turns into drive and kick. I don’t believe it will though… I think running BG off screens and passing it off to the cutting big man is what Kuester will do with Detroit’s roster. Not enough guys to spread the floor with Stuckey not being able to shoot 3s (yet).
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 2:21 PM CDT reply actions
PS,
Back when my buddy and I believed it would be a good idea to open a restaurant, we were joking about naming it “Chez Boney”, pronounced “Shay Boh-NAY” like it’s french when really it would’ve just been a sports bar.
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 2:22 PM CDT reply actions
@ Ronnie D.
My dad has been saying for 2 years now that Cowens should get the job. He always remarks on how the past coaches dont even let him talk during timeouts. I do think Dave Cowens should get the job. Even if he doesnt do well I still think he deserved the job.
@ PS
Big Fritz a LOT like coachDP. nice COMBO of missing verbs and all CAPS. just epinion
LOL!
=======
On topic:
Positives:
-He was part of the 04-05 staff that went the Finals two years in a row.
-Cleveland’s offense looked a lot better last year with a lot more movement and he’s credited with designing it.
-Played and has been an assistant for a while in the NBA.
Negatives:
-Undistinguished career as a college head coach.
-No NBA head coaching experience.
Positives > Negatives, at least to me.
The positives that tip the scale in my view:
Anyone who was around for our good years understands Detroit Basketball at its best. That’s worth a whole lot in my book.
Plus, as much as I hate Cleveland, their defense is incredible (thanks in large part to Mike Brown, IMO), and their offense improved a lot last season.
The tutelage of Larry Brown and Mike Brown > tutelage of MCIAFI (Cowens).
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 2:23 PM CDT reply actions
@ Craig:
Bron, iso. Bron, jumper. Bron, iso.
Running that play every time will win more games than it will lose, frankly.
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 2:24 PM CDT reply actions
coachDP INSIDER info- kuester to be not just COACH, but next PISTONS coach. expereinced asisstant MOVE from cavs to GOOD GUYS. (pistons GOOD guys, just epinion)
by coachDP on Jul 7, 2009 2:34 PM CDT reply actions
@ Boney
Going to Chez Boney would be an alienating experience. The menu and wine list would be in French, but when you order everything gets transformed into its sports-bar equivalent. If you order foie gras, coq au vin, and a glass of Burgundy, the waiter brings you nachos, buffalo wings, and a Red Dog beer.
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 2:34 PM CDT reply actions
@ PS
gross @ red dog beer
If you order Burgundy, you’ll get a Killian’s
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 2:44 PM CDT reply actions
The TVs would display American sports, but with the sound off and French subtitles.
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 2:46 PM CDT reply actions
@Boney:
I’m going to hate Kuester if our offense turns into drive and kick.
That is most likely precisely what Kuester will do with Detroit. If it is, fortunately our roster as it stands now should be more effective at this than Chicago was.
by Mike Payne on Jul 7, 2009 2:47 PM CDT reply actions
@PS:
The TVs would display American sports, but with the sound off and French subtitles.
Le Bebounds?
by Mike Payne on Jul 7, 2009 2:49 PM CDT reply actions
Can you even imagine the chest-beating McCosky is going to do after he wrote the “Avery Johnson is not a shoe-in” article? He is the king of the no downside, tenuous prediction. If it comes to pass, he knew it all along. If not, he never said it would definitely happen. God I hate that fat clown.
by Forty on Jul 7, 2009 2:49 PM CDT reply actions
Even more off-topic—this “coachDP” is an impostor:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2009-07-07/should-dumars-consider-dave-cowens/#comment-189409
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 2:54 PM CDT reply actions
I would think that drive-and-kick plays into Stuckey’s strengths as a point guard.
by Jamison on Jul 7, 2009 3:02 PM CDT reply actions
As of this moment, the domain FireKuester.com is still available.
Have at it.
by Matt on Jul 7, 2009 3:07 PM CDT reply actions
@Jamison
It does, considering our main post presence still can shoot from the perimeter. Also considering we’re going after Brandon Bass allegedly too…
@ Mike Payne
It doesn’t mean I have to like our offense… drive and kick? that’s almost as boring as dump and chase in hockey
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 3:08 PM CDT reply actions
@PS
There was something that seemed off with that coachDP post. But how do you know?
by Birdman on Jul 7, 2009 3:10 PM CDT reply actions
John Kuester is the new head coach according to SI.com
by Santiago on Jul 7, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions
@ Skylar
I don’t hate Joe Dumars, I just think he’s over thinking his position. Thats why he makes bad decisions. The Pistons need a coach that can take what we have and make each Player better team wise and individually.
by joe on Jul 7, 2009 3:18 PM CDT reply actions
The Bass rumor was reported via PistonsNation. Don’t remember the source cited there, though.
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 3:19 PM CDT reply actions
@Boney
Yeah… I was thinking having Stuckey/Bynum/Gordon driving and Prince/CV/Afflalo camped in either corner would make for some decent drive-and-kick opportunities. With Kwame and whoever they get for Rip setting screens/crashing the boards, they should be fairly effective.
by Jamison on Jul 7, 2009 3:19 PM CDT reply actions
There was something that seemed off with that coachDP post. But how do you know?
Well, I don’t know for sure—only Matt Watson (or Kevin! or MP!) can check commenter records. But I am almost certain that this is not the coachDP we all know and love.
Fake coachDP, show yourself! Real coachDP, you are not forgotten! Shake off the shackles of internet impostors and favor us once again with your comments!
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 3:20 PM CDT reply actions
I would like to be the first to invite Coach Q-ster to dine at Chez Boney once he arrives in Detroit. He should try the beef BoneyBourguignon, it’s excellent.
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 3:26 PM CDT reply actions
Watson just tweeted that the SI report is rumor, or at least the timetable is. No agreement has been reached yet (although it is approaching).
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 3:30 PM CDT reply actions
i won’t believe any hiring info until it’s posted at dbb, the source for pistons news.
by Craig on Jul 7, 2009 3:31 PM CDT reply actions
whoever was asking for a link explaining Detroit and Bass’s interest in each other – http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/07/detroit_pistons_target_mcdyess.html
hard to believe it comes from a “Detroit Pistons Target McDyess” column, but it’s there.
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 3:34 PM CDT reply actions
I hope that Jod is not considering this Brandon Bass.
by PS on Jul 7, 2009 3:39 PM CDT reply actions
hard to believe it comes from a "Detroit Pistons Target McDyess" column, but it’s there.
I’d much rather have Dyess— even for his age, he’s a better rebounder, outside shooter and post player.
by Mike Payne on Jul 7, 2009 3:40 PM CDT reply actions
But would Dyess rather have us?
I like Bass, but he’s another PF, and we need a C.
To me, signing him would mean we’re going to package Max with someone to trade for a C.
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 3:41 PM CDT reply actions
@ Jamison
While I don’t mind Gordon driving when the opening is there, I’d prefer to have him and his 41% 3 point shooting at or near the 3 point line as well.
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 3:43 PM CDT reply actions
Yahoo reports that Dice is going to the Spurs.
Makes the Bass rumor sound more believable.
by brgulker on Jul 7, 2009 3:49 PM CDT reply actions
ahh yes, the San Antonio Spurs…
Dyess talks about how much he wants to win a ring yet he signs on only with teams who play the right way (Pistons and Spurs) to try and win rings. Funny… another diss for LeBron.
Looks like LeBron will have to settle for Channing Frye
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 3:56 PM CDT reply actions
no surprise that people aren’t lining up to play with shaq and bron.
by Craig on Jul 7, 2009 4:00 PM CDT reply actions
More likely it will be a pick-and-roll/pop offense. The upside with CV (assuming he can set good picks) is that he can pop out for a jumper or roll to the basket. That versatility something the Pistons never had with Dyess and Sheed and it made the offense very predictable.
I’m sure there will be a heavy dose of Rip and BG coming around screens.
As long as it’s not a bunch of isolation plays, I’ll be happy.
by Quick Darshan on Jul 7, 2009 4:08 PM CDT reply actions
All of you are a bunch of whining kids, pompous assholes. Just accept the fact we are rebuilding and Joe is doing the best he can ungrateful sons of bitches you all are
by Santiago on Jul 7, 2009 4:08 PM CDT reply actions
I hope Dyess does go to the Spurs because I actually like and respect that team. He fits in perfectly.
by Quick Darshan on Jul 7, 2009 4:10 PM CDT reply actions
I don’t get the Bass rumor. Him and Maxiell are almost exactly the same player, and we already have Max signed to a fairly cheap long term contract.
Here’s how they stack up with each other (using their career numbers):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=5bLGY
They have nearly identical PER’s, TS%, and rebound rates. Max is a better finisher and shot-blocker and Bass is a better free throw shooter. Those are pretty much the only differences between them.
by Gabe on Jul 7, 2009 4:11 PM CDT reply actions
Tell us how you really feel, santiago, and don’t hold back this time!
by Craig on Jul 7, 2009 4:12 PM CDT reply actions
Dyess is a class act. I hope he stays but wish him the best either way. Ice for Dice!!!
by Claudia on Jul 7, 2009 4:26 PM CDT reply actions
“Joe is doing the best he can ungrateful sons of bitches you all are”
Are you related to Yoda?
by Claudia on Jul 7, 2009 4:34 PM CDT reply actions
Claudia I could never wish this upon Dyess to play here another year when he could be potentially making the difference on a contending team. I wouldn’t be surprised if he joins San Antonio. If this would have happened back in 2005 (instead of signing with the Pistons), Tim Duncan would probably be polishing his 6th or 7th ring by now.
by Ali on Jul 7, 2009 4:35 PM CDT reply actions
Gabe, I agree. Bass is a nice player but he doesn’t really fit a need. Chris Anderson would be ideal because he can affect a game in small doses but I’m sure Denver will keep him. Pachulia is a good backup C so I wouldn’t mind him for a couple years but Atlanta will try to keep him too.
by Quick Darshan on Jul 7, 2009 4:39 PM CDT reply actions
See that’s one main difference between Shaq and Duncan. Duncan polishes his rings. But Shaq puts them in his Rock Tumbler.
by Skylar on Jul 7, 2009 4:39 PM CDT reply actions
@ QD
Zaza Pachulia IZ DA BESS CENTAR EVAR INBENDED! LOK DAT HIS SHOOTING FIGURES FROM DA FEEL!
BAYBE BEE CAN GIT DAVON HARDEN 2?
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 4:56 PM CDT reply actions
Yoda Simmons: ‘Overrated is Jod. Denies this, no one does.’
by joejoejoe on Jul 7, 2009 5:00 PM CDT reply actions
It would be impossible for me to admire McDyess any more than I already do, but if he came back, I think I’d have to buy a Dyess jersey or something. God bless him and his foolish loyalty. Go to San Antonio, Dyess.
by Other Matt on Jul 7, 2009 5:08 PM CDT reply actions
What’s that saying? If you love something, set it free? Go, Dyess! Go to San Antonio and be FREE!
And I’m disappointed by the Q-Star choice, but it’s because I fully expected a “name” coach that we would all know and recognize. Hopefully this works out and he can bring us back to playing some intelligent, efficient basketball.
by Garrett on Jul 7, 2009 5:19 PM CDT reply actions
Way OT:
A couple days ago someone mentioned a very, very faint inkling of a rumor that Rip could be traded for Dampier. I thought it actually made a little sense, but didn’t like that Dampier has 2 years left on his contract. Turns out the second year is completely un-guaranteed, so he’d basically be on an expiring contract next season.
Rip’s a better player, but I wouldn’t hate that deal- we’d have less money tied up long-term in the backcourt (so it would greatly improve our flexibility), and Dampier fits our short-term need for a decent center.
Just putting that out there.
by Gabe on Jul 7, 2009 5:38 PM CDT reply actions
I hope not. When I think Ned Beatty, I think “Squeal like a pig.”
by Quick Darshan on Jul 7, 2009 6:20 PM CDT reply actions
All of you are a bunch of whining kids, pompous assholes. Just accept the fact we are rebuilding and Joe is doing the best he can ungrateful sons of bitches you all are
I thought this looked familiar… The exact same post is on Need4Sheed. Douche.
by TDP on Jul 7, 2009 6:20 PM CDT reply actions
Well, to his credit, Ned Beatty actually only said the “Weeee!” part.
by TDP on Jul 7, 2009 6:22 PM CDT reply actions
How’d you like to be Ned Beatty’s agent pitching that role?
Hey Ned, gotta a picture starring Burt Reynolds.. ..
Yeah. Yeah.
Also stars Jon Voight.
Yeah. Yeah.
There’s a sex scene, where you
I’m in.
What downer after reading the script !!
by MarkButter in SoCal on Jul 7, 2009 7:03 PM CDT reply actions
All your ungrateful sons of bitches are belong to detroitbadboys.com
by Skylar on Jul 7, 2009 7:08 PM CDT reply actions
umm, quick question about CBA…
If Detroit were to say, sign AI and trade him to Chicago in a move that will put us over the cap (hear me out)…
then we’ll have the MLE to use, which is $5.8m (or something like that) rather than the $3-$5m under the cap…
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 7:33 PM CDT reply actions
Well the drafts over we have a new coach and a good part of our free agency is over the teams not what I expected but could be worst ,hopefully Jod can come up with a half way solid center if not I expect a deal at the trade deadline ,and as a relatively new DBB.I have to say I’m proud to be a ungrateful son of a bitch.
by Defor on Jul 7, 2009 7:47 PM CDT reply actions
Boney, is that how it works? When I read that report about the sign and trade with Chicago I couldn’t think of how it would affect anything either way. But, what you say actually makes some sense if that’s how it works.
I don’t know if there’s anyone still out there that’s worth the full MLE though.
by Quick Darshan on Jul 7, 2009 7:52 PM CDT reply actions
I wonder if the Pistons DO need a Center. Definitely, someone who rebounds and blocks shots is a need. But, does it have to be a Center? Can it be a PF?
Kwame could start and play like 18minutes. But, the lion share of playing time could go to CV and this unnamed PF.
Looking at the Eastern Conference rosters, there’s only a few that have great young Centers (Howard, Lopez) and there’s a couple that have decent ones that don’t scare me (Perkins, Bogut, Dalembert).
The rest seem to have PFs that are Centers in name only.
Thoughts?
by Quick Darshan on Jul 7, 2009 7:57 PM CDT reply actions
ive been thinking about that as well, i mean a guy thats 6’8-6’9 or so that just blocks shots and rebounds and can play in the most is pretty much a center. how many legit seven footers are there in the nba anymore?
by dandresden on Jul 7, 2009 8:09 PM CDT reply actions
QD,
I believe that’s the case… if Detroit signed AI, and traded say… AI and Kwame to the Bulls they could get Gordon for $9m per…
Then trade enough salary for Villenueva..
problem is, there’s not enough salary to make these deals and since Milwaukee is dumping it won’t work anyway
by Boney on Jul 7, 2009 8:20 PM CDT reply actions
The most rewarding position in all of sportslandia is being the ungrateful son of a bitch.
Santiago should try it sometime.
by Sauce1977 on Jul 7, 2009 9:07 PM CDT reply actions
Santogold is the ungrateful bitch of a son, we here in Detroit expect success & not nothin less
by Skylar on Jul 8, 2009 9:52 AM CDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
