So… you recommend shedding a contract (or two) in order to get Bass?

Who do you recommend we shed?

the team doesn’t exactly have enough guys to just “shed” unless they dump Afflalo… I’d rather keep Afflalo and try to get Bass for what’s left under the cap.

For purposes of discussion, what’s under the cap would probably be a 5 Year/24-25 Million Dollar contract (starting at 4.2 Million).

Brandon Bass is athletic, a strong defender and a good rebounder. He also creates matchup headaches at the 4 and 5 positions with his solid midrange game. If nothing else, he’ll be a quality replacement for McDyess.

I’ll give you the “midrange game” and “strong defender”, but he’s certainly not a good rebounder, and his terrible post performance makes me wonder why you’d want him at the 5.

If they trade Afflalo for nothing, they could offer 5 year/30 Million (starting at 5.2 Million).

I’m with Boney, but Langlois is saying in the mail today that we only have 2 mil to offer. I don’t see Bass coming here for that. Unfortunately, this article identifies Afflalo as the odd man out. It makes the most sense…unless Rip or Tay are traded (in which case Afflalo is the back up 2 and Rip moves to 3). The only other player to move would be Maxiel since they would be competing for minutes. Also, I think Joe D could get people interested in Maxiel more than in Afflalo. I’d trade Maxiel for Bass straight up before I’d trade Afflalo for Bass straight up.

Granted, I didn’t watch a bunch of Pistons games this year, but I did notice that: 1) up in Golden State Curry tried like 5 dudes to stop Maggette and no one could till Afflalo came in and shut him down and 2) every other rally by the team this year seemed to be initiated by an Afflalo 3 or stop. Afflalo guards at the 2 or 3. I have a hard time thinking Afflalo has come close to his ceiling.

OT: this sucks.

MP,

Bass posted a ho-hum rebounding rate, but did so on a team with great rebounders up front AND Jason Kidd in the backcourt.

I want him at the 5 because what we currently have at the 5 doesn’t work.

As for Afflalo, I don’t know where he finds minutes on this roster.

@ MP, yes that does suck.

====

Does anyone think it was Adnrew Bynum’s 6 ppg on 32 percent shooting that led LA to victory over Orlando.

Actually, I think it had more to do with Odom and Gasol, and I think Gasol is right around 7’, and Odom ain’t that far away as a very mobile PF.

This argument, makes a lot more sense than the above:

But, as Matt pointed out, the Pistons aren’t a contending team looking for a finishing touch. Joe Dumars should be in the business of stockpiling talent at a reasonable price. This is probably the last time we’ll see Brandon Bass available at anything less than the MLE.

I can see this as the year of “stockpiling talent” and be okay with it.

Worst case scenario: CV and Bass will improve, and their very reasonable contracts will become very desirable via trade.

Again, worst-case scenario there. Best case is they improve and contribute.

BUT, and it’s a big BUT, Boney’s right:

the team doesn’t exactly have enough guys to just "shed" unless they dump Afflalo… I’d rather keep Afflalo and try to get Bass for what’s left under the cap.

I didn’t like the Amir dump, and I don’t like the AA dump. Two young guys who were filling needs dumped for Bass. Seems mighty odd to me.

As for Afflalo, I don’t know where he finds minutes on this roster.

So let’s just dump him? For a VERY undersized 5 man?

That doesn’t make any sense.

I love Brandon Bass, but he’s not a C, plain and simple. He’s an upgraded Jason Maxiel, plain and simple. There’s nothing more to the story than that right there.

If we dump AA and sign Bass, we end up with a couple issues:

1) Rip becomes more difficult to trade, because we no longer have a back-up SG. And until I see Stuckey draining 3’s, he’s not a shooting guard that can play alongside MFWB.

2) Maxiel becomes entirely redundant. Bass and Max will split minutes, like it or not. Neither of them can play C legitimately. Neither of them can block shots, and neither of them can defend a 7 footer.

I can see it now, Cleveland as the 1 seed us as the 8 seed. We throw Kwame and Bass at Z and Shaq. Good luck.

I’ll take AA. On another thread and I’ll post again, he appears to be a consumate pro. On a side note, I can see Kidd rebounding but maybe I’m missing something as for Dallas being a rebounding team. Style may contribute but if they’re that good why are they trying to lock up Gortat? Offense yes, but under the scenario how will he improve their rebounding if they’re good to begin with.

But at 6’8" 240, he would add some bulk for our woefully thin frontcourt. But who’s our lockdown 2 defender? Tay slides over, CV at the 3, Bass 4, Kwame 5 means we lose the offense of our two best players.

Tay at the 2 makes me cringe.

correction: I guess we lose the same way with AA locking down at the 2. But we’d spread the floor with AA, Tay (3) & CV (4). Somebody will get a good deal.

He’s an upgraded Jason Maxiel, plain and simple.

An upgraded Jason Maxiell who CANNOT score in the post. Maxiell shoots 56% in the paint, while Bass only scores at a 39% clip. You do not put a guy like that at center.

(and brgulker, i agree with your comment— just used the maxiell statement as a point of discussion against bass)

Has anyone seen an official word on how much cap space we have left? I still haven’t seen the definitive 1st year salaries for CV and BG. Langlois and McCoskey said we have about 2M left, but other calculations I’ve seen say we have a little over 4M.

Has anyone seen an official word on how much cap space we have left? I still haven’t seen the definitive 1st year salaries for CV and BG. Langlois and McCoskey said we have about 2M left, but other calculations I’ve seen say we have a little over 4M.

Sorry about the double post.

if u guys trade him da would be suck
cuz i think they are a better options for free agent
if the detroit would listen to me i would take the guy from CELTICS Glen Davis or the guy from SUNS Matt Barnes

Jim, I was wondering the same thing. I calculated 4.2 assuming that BG and CV had salaries that increased at 8%/year. Dave Dial came up with the same:

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/07/nba_salary_cap_set_at_577_mill.html

But, Langlois said it will be less than 2mil. Even if you dump Afflalo for nothing, 3mil doesn’t sound like enough to get Bass.

I’m more apt to trust Langlois’ numbers.

Langlois’ numbers still have Oberto’s money on there too— is that what’s left after we buy him out or before? Has that even happened yet? Someone fill me on please.

…fill me *in please…

And do I see CV’s first year salary at $6.05mil? So his deal is definitely back-loaded then. I’m okay with that— $6m, 7m, 8m, 9m, 10m?— or something close. Benny G’s looks to be a little more balanced, at right around $10m/yr.

Does anybody else think $4.3m/yr for Max is too much? I guess just reading that number next to his name and really thinking about, it seems to me like we’re grossly overpaying for what we’re getting; especially considering that Kwame is making less and I feel was MUCH more productive last year. Now that could have been Curry basically shitting all over Max (which he did), but I think he needs to have a really good year this year to show he was worth that extension, which so far looks to have been undeserved.

Don’t take this wrong way but I’m tried of reading these dumb blogs. Who’s more valuable to this team Rip or Afflalo? We couldn’t get Adam Morrison in a trade for Afflalo, so why are people crying over trading Afflalo to land Bass.

Now if you want to argue that Afflalo is better than Stuckey, I agree with you, but he no where near Rip. So who cares if Afflalo get traded to landed bass.

To be honest Afflalo lost my respect anyway, sporting a Laker shirt at the Laker parade with Farmar.

Fuck it, we’re going Bass Fishing

@joe:
Don’t take this wrong way but I’m tried of reading these dumb blogs.

No one is forcing you to stay.

Definitely not forcing you to stay.

Did brgulker say maxiell can not block shots??…..hmmm….guess i was seeing things..

TRADE JOE NOW.

Maxiell blocks shots when it’s on help D, not his man, and completely unexpected by the offensive player. Other than that, he does not block shots.

He gets blocked shots like defensive rebounds.

Looks like getting a bass got a bit easier:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4314637

@joe
Afflalo grew up in LA. He’s probably been a Laker fan from birth. I don’t see why we should hold that against him.

@Joel
Most blocked shots happen from help defense. Blocking a player one-on-one is very rare and very difficult.

@ Joel: Affalo shirt: Wouldn’t have anything to do with playing with Farmar at UCLA? Supporting his buddy? Being an LA native?

BTW, I let go of your arm and stopped twisting. You can leave now.

Not only that, Afflalo started in the backcourt with Jordan Farmar for UCLA. They’re probably close friends. If my hometown team won the title, and one of my best friends was on the team, I think I’d try to finagle an invitation to the victory parade.

Coorection: @ Joe. Sorry Joel.

MBiSC is smart.

/because he wrote what I wrote about Afflalo, not because he added an “l” to “Joe”

RE: Bass playing at center-

According to 82games.com, Bass was more productive when played at C than when played at PF:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08DAL13.HTM#bypos

The other semi-interesting thing is that Bass played a lot better in the playoffs than in the regular season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bassbr01.html

So if he can raise his regular season level of play up to his playoff levels, then Bass is worth the extra maneuvering it would take to free up enough room to sign him.

If the great playoff numbers are just a small sample size fluke, then he’s basically the same player as Maxiell, only difference being Bass has a better jumper and free throw %, but is a worse finisher and doesn’t block as many shots.

Thanks PS. . . I think. Too bad I can’t spell correction correctly.

And I remember Max having one helluva block at the rim last year. Obviously one of many thru the season. I can’t remember who it was against, but it was right in front of the rim on a dunk attempt. And most blocks come from help D. How many 5’s or 4’s block their guys shot vs. driving 1 & 2’s.

Rob that actually just made it much harder. Orlando gets a very big trade exception from that deal and they are reportedly after Bass too. Unless if Bass has any personal reasons for coming here or Orlando decides to match Houston’s offer for Gortat, you can bet your hat that he’s going to Florida.

@ Ali: Too bad about that exception. But it’s got to be used in 1 year I believe and wouldn’t that put them that much farther over the cap next year, since the trade exception will be used up this year or expire?

This has to be Maxiell’s best block
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bBeGy5Lroo
and of course he gets called for the phantom foul

and this has to be his best dunk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXGsupMHLfs
he fucking jumped over Alston, not to mention it was a bad feed

Never under estimate the Joe D factor. We can offer Bass a lot more minutes here also.

Yes the exception would have to be used in the time span of a year, but I don’t think it doesn’t apply next year (ie you use the exception to get a player for $10 mil over 2 years; you still do not pay luxury tax the second year for the player signed in the exception)

What Joe D factor? If anything, Joe has been subpar over the past 5 years (the pistons got worse every year after 2004 until he blew it up to start from scratch).

As for the minutes thing, I had something similar to that in mind. What if we offered Bass a 1 year deal for $2 mil (assuming he has offers for more $$ and more years) but gave him plenty of playing time. That would give him the chance to real in big money next year, and he might even resign here if we have enough cap space.

*i should mention worse in the playoffs, not regular season

Thanks Ali. I still think maybe Orl could match that offer and then move Lewis to the 3 and Gortat to the 4. They could see the Lakers again with AB/Pau/Odom(??), Bos w/ Sheed/KG/Perk, Den w/ Martin/Birdman/Nene and others trying to match big frontlines. . . excl’g us of course (so far).

Just go back and get that kid Rickey Paulding for a less than a million a year trade off AA for Bass. This kid Ricky is doing good over seas even though Pistons gave up his rights….

http://www.nba.com/media/pistons/signings_090708_001.jpg

I live in LA, so I deal with Laker fans on a daily bases, so when folks calling me clowning about a piston player wearing a Laker shirt at their parade for me that’s going to be hard one to swallow.

I’m sorry if yall took what I blogged earlier offensive, but the point I was trying make is how can yall be mad about trading AA for Bass but not mad at trading Rip for Boozer.

If you look at the top teams in the NBA, their not trading there best players for alright players.

Do you honestly think that a combo of Boozer/ Charlie V. could stand up against Lewis/ Howard, KG/ Perkins or who ever and Shaq.

:/ In Hollinger’s chat he just said Gordon’s contract is for $58 million (not the $55m that’s been reported). WTF?

That’s what I’ve been saying the entire time. Just because you have Gordon does not mean you need to get rid of Rip for cap space.

That would be an impressive lineup if Gortat does start for Orlando, they’d have a lot of size at almost every position.

Robert, success in europe does not necessarily translate in the NBA. I think Rubio will be the second biggest bust of this year’s draft (behind Thabeet). In the NBA, people are much faster, much stronger and are all around more talented. It’s like how Amir dominated in the Dleague but didn’t make it anywhere in the NBA because he didn’t have the size.

@Ali

I think we’ll have to disagree. I think this is Maxiell’s best block. Mike Tirico agrees.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDD5GAivH7c

Maxiell blocked KG later that year, in the conference finals. MUCH more impressive to block a hall of famer in the conference finals than a defensive center in the regular season.

@ Ali:

Euroleague > D League

by a lot…

Also, Rip has to be traded because having both him and Gordon signed for over 20m a year combined cripples our ability to add players at other positions. Sinking that much money into non-superstar SG’s is kinda dump in the first place, not fixing the roster imbalance caused by that odd (mis?)-allocation of resources would seal the Pistons fate as a lottery team, or 7-8th seed at best.

I like Rip, but he’s gotta go or we’re screwed for the next few years.

thanks Birdman. That’s the block I was thinking of.

Joe: I too live with LA fans. Drives me fucking nuts. But to say the blog basically sucks is I think what got people’s ire up. As for giving up AA for Bass (in essence) I think folks are looking at it from having the opportunity to trade Rip for a stud (or close stud) at the 5 since that’s our most glaring hole. Boozer for Rip isn’t all that bad but really moot with CV unles we’re looking for cap space next season when he walks. I think the affinity for AA stems from the fact he’s not out waving a gun at someone because of a cake nor is he a murder/suicide candidate nor is he DUI manslaughter driver. Not saying Bass is that, but he represents what D-ball character Jod has put together. And, in Hollinger’s chat (take it for what it’s worth) he says at this point in their careers BG is a better player than Rip. If he’s better and Rip can land us a legit 5. Same chat someone mentioned Tay for Pryz/Outlaw. Holl said not until Oden shows he’s healthy for a season.

And my apologies. .. I’m back twisting your arm.

Hollinger also mentioned that Detroit overpaid by a lot… that other teams weren’t likely to pay $50 million for Gordon, much less the reported $55 or $58.

Not necessarily. Depends on which league in europe we’re talking about. Regardless, the point was that you can’t translate numbers very easily.

You can find good value for Rip. You may have to include a draft pick because of his contract, but you can definitely do better than an expiring contract. Eitherway, I have said from the very start that I hate the Gordon signing. They way overpaid, Hollinger pointed out that no other team would have matched at $50 million, and instead he’s handed out $58 mil to come off the bench. That’s some great management we’ve got.

“http://www.nba.com/media/pistons/signings_090708_001.jpg”

Of Mice and Men. Creepy.

MP, what are Dyess’ Post vs. Outside stats? I would think the mix would be about the same.

I don’t think Orlando can afford to use this exception. If they do, it will be for a player with a bit more gusto than Brandon Bass.

As for Spellcheck, I like his game, kinda. But I’m a bigger fan of Will Bynum’s game. No team has a five guard rotation, and we should dispense with whichever player isn’t going to contribute minutes.

I would hate it if anyone stopped commenting on this blog over THIS post, of all things. That’s not livin’ the High Life.

@ Joel, we did cut Oberto.

Feldman over at Piston Powered has a nice chart that describes all the salaries of our current rosters (and obviously how much money we have less).

“…and instead he’s handed out $58 mil to come off the bench. That’s some great management we’ve got.”

Common sense says that all this “Benny off the bench” shit is just lip service. As you’ve stated, and we’ve all stated in the last two weeks, you don’t pay somebody $50mil+ to come off the bench. I’m 99% sure that Rip is gone. It’s pretty easy to see that. We have too many guards and not enough bigs. We just signed a guard to a huge contract who happens to be 5 years younger than our current player at that same position (who is also well-payed). Common sense says the Ripster is going to be traded for a big. It could be before the season, early in the season (like C-Bill), or at the deadline but it WILL happen. It’s going to be annoying around here until it happens though, as we’ll have to keep hearing about how stupid it is to pay two SG’s all-star money, even though any thinking person should be able to see that Rip’s basically gone. It’s not an “if” question, but “when.”

Now, if indeed we actually ARE paying Benny G that much money to come off the bench and Rip never gets moved this season (at his highest value, as he’s going to continue to depreciate as he gets older), then I’d say it’s fair to say, “That’s some great management we’ve got.”

Until then, just wait. I know it’s unbearable, but it WILL happen eventually (hopefully for Okafor).

I was wondering about a Rip trade in light of Ben Gordon’s remarks. If you are asked about starting, the common answer (unless you’re THE ANSWER) is that you are just in town to win a championship. The extraneous stuff about not having suited up yet is weird and out of character, unless you are privvy to certain information.

Either way, I want Brandon Bass if we can get him for $5M or less.

Thanks for that block, Birdman. That’s the one I was thinking of, too. And I love the third comment under the video: Maxiell is a BMF.

And as for Wiggles’ “Joe D factor”, I think he’s on to something. Joe is a smooth operator in person, and I think he’s probably really, really good at reading people and telling them what they want to hear (whether he’s totally truthful or not is another topic). Charlie V already mentioned how Joe is a brilliant and admirable man, and I think most people who meet him come away with a similar feeling. If signing someone like Bass comes down to what our GM says in person vs. another GM, my money is on Jod.

Why not trade Tay for Przybilla then? Portland is looking for a veteran small forward and that gives you a starting center and enough cap space to sign Bass. Przybilla has a personal option after this year, so if he doesn’t like it here, we turn it into more cap and go after another big (via salary dump).

I just don’t like the idea of Ben Gordon starting when his defense is atrocious. If he can show that he is capable of at least containing the opponent, then by all means trade Rip. But until that happens, that would be like shooting yourself in the foot, especially if you give away AA for cap space.

/Common sense says the Ripster is going to be traded for a big. It could be before the season, early in the season (like C-Bill), or at the deadline but it WILL happen. It’s going to be annoying around here until it happens though, as we’ll have to keep hearing about how stupid it is to pay two SG’s all-star money, even though any thinking person should be able to see that Rip’s basically gone. It’s not an "if" question, but "when."/

That sounds about right.

Also, with the way that Chauncey played in Denver. Pistons fans should hope that Sheed and Dyess have similar impacts.

It will lend credence to the idea that the players in Detroit were great but things had just gotten stale and they needed a change of scenery to get that spark back. It will raise Tay and Rip’s trade value.

Also, with the way that Chauncey played in Denver. Pistons fans should hope that Sheed and Dyess have similar impacts.

It will lend credence to the idea that the players in Detroit were great but things had just gotten stale and they needed a change of scenery to get that spark back. It will raise Tay and Rip’s trade value.

I’m hoping for that, except for Sheed, because he plays for Boston. And Boston is in the EC, and I really, really hate Boston. I really admire SA as a franchise; my grandparents live in Denver, so I’ve always rooted for the Broncos and Nuggets with my grandpa.

So, it’s all that much easier to cheer for Dice and CB.

Personally, I think Sheed will be about the same, 12 and 8.

@Kevin S.
MP, what are Dyess’ Post vs. Outside stats? I would think the mix would be about the same.

Brandon Bass post scoring: 39%
McDyess post scoring: 63%

It will raise Tay and Rip’s trade value.

I missed that sentence. Go sheed go!

Jod seems to agree with all of us: on pistons.com there’s a video titled “a big week for the pistons.”

At the end of the video Jod says “We definitely have to go out and sign more big guys.” And says that all his attention is now focused on shoring up the frontcourt.

Happy to hear we’re not content with just CV/Max/Kwame, though I’m still suspicious that Jod isn’t looking to trade Rip. The crappy extension Jod gave him has fueled my pet theory that Jod probably overvalues Rip, but hopefully I’m wrong.

FWIW, of the 2008 All-Stars only Jason Kidd and Allen Iverson will be paid less than Rip next year. He can still score 20 ppg in his sleep, and that’s worth something.

Gabe, that was definitely a crappy extension. But, if Dumars is thinking of trading Rip, he’s not going to come out and say it.

Jesus christ… Arron Afflalo has gone from decent bench/role player guy to a guy we can’t even fucking trade for Adam Morrison according to “joe”. Then after that bomb of a statement, joe follows up with:

“Now if you want to argue that Afflalo is better than Stuckey, I agree with you, but he no where near Rip. So who cares if Afflalo get traded to landed bass.”

So… let me put this all together. Morrison > Afflalo > Stuckey? lol.

Sure thing lowercase joe.

If you’ve never cried on a basketball court you are better than Adam Morrison.

HAY GUYS!

TRAYDE RIP FOR OKUH4! B WIN THA CHAMPEUNSHIP!

/brgulker’d

QD, very true, I’m probably just paranoid, though McCosky has dropped little tidbits like, “Dumars has been disinclined thus far to trade either Hamilton or Prince…” which have made me scowl and mutter under my breath, but those tidbits are probably (hopefully) just leaked to McCosky, by Jod, as a pieces of trade gamesmanship.

Kevin:
Maybe the plan is to combine Gordon and Rip into a single 40 ppg scorer:
Ren Gordilton

He’d be well worth $20m a year.

Gabe, I remember McCosky’s diatribe against those calling for Curry’s dismissal. He said it’d never happen, that Curry was Joe’s guy. So, I’ve come to the conclusion that he has no real, valid inside information regarding most of the things actually going on within the Pistons organization. His is just conjecture like the rest of ours.

I prefer Bip Gordilton.

Dumars could’ve traded Sheed for CV31 last season!

ZOMG IZ DAT HOW DUH SALURY CAPS WERK?

That reminds me of when Rip had the “Hamiltion”

jersey.

Unless Joe is pissed at Rip and thinks that he might be a bad influence on the young guys I don’t see Joe D moving him this off season. He and Tay are the only veterans on the squad and even though this means that we aren’t going anyplace next year Joe will still be able to say at the end of this summer that the team is heading in the right direction.

We’ve reloaded with a lot of youth. But no one knows how these young guys games are going to translate to the NBA. I think we are going to see what develops this year and address some of our needs next off season.

Joe might move Rip after the summer when the rooks have a year under their belt for a big if Joe thinks we are within striking distance and have duplicate parts that he can leverage. Scenarios that could emerge that would make this likely are, for example, Deron Washington becoming a beast offensively and or Ben Gordon adding something new to his game that forces Keustner to consider starting him over Rip. I’m sure there are better scenarios but you get the gist.

Why would this be the case? There really aren’t any good bigs that are available and can make you an immediate contender for a championship. So, I expect Joe to study the situation and see what emerges.

Boozer to Chicago?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4317515

@ Boney

I’m just calling it,like I see it. Morrison > Afflalo > Stuckey none of them have done nothing worth talking about.

@joe:
I’m just calling it,like I see it.

Are you wearing retard glasses?

@ shawnin DC

Joe Dumars should of hired you as the new Pistons coach because your blog remarks are on point.

If Boozer does go to Chicago, we’re screwed— and the Bulls will be a title contender.

@ Mike Payne

Hopefully you’re joking

@ joe

Very sound reasoning you provided “calling it like I see it”. Hey, tomorrow when my boss comes by and says “Boney, why did you tell the receptionist she had a great ass? That’s sexual harassment!” I’ll just say “hey man, calling it like I sees it”

Sheeit I’ll take lil’ 50 and Double A before I go anywhere near Billy Crudup from almost famous’ stunt double. c’mon broseph joseph

I could see Utah trading Boozer soon. That would scare teams away from making an offer to Milsap, so Utah can get him cheaper.

Eli Zaret interviews Q-Star:

http://www.nba.com/pistons/video/2009/07/09/kuester_090709.pistons/index.html

One thing to note: no mention of bebounds or sensurgency or anything else unintelligible.

@ Boney

I can’t be mad at at your comments towards me. That was funny!!!

But @ Mike Payne

Tell the Detroit Players to run for their lifes because Chicago plan on getting Boozilla!!!! Wow Chicago don’t do that to the Pistons!!!

I’m real cool with Kuester’s prodigious return. Dude deserves a shot.

This would be good a trade for the Pistons and Boston, if Dumars could pull it off. Prince,Stuckey for Rondo and Perkins. Both teams could benifit from this.

I watched Rasheed’s conference after the Q-ster interview, and when Rasheed held up the Celtics jersey I felt all the compassionate parts of my brain turn off and put all the power into hating him and the Celtics more than ever. I hope their team explodes in a flurry of technical fouls.

Anybody have any thoughts on the low end of the FA market? I think Cleveland made a nice move by picking up Anthony Parker from Toronto, making their rotation deeper and better. The Pistons might be better served in both the short and long run adding bargain basement pieces like PF Chris Wilcox and sitting on some cap space for a mid-season trade in what is sure to be a buyer’s market.

people keep talking bad about Stuckey he really wasn’t that bad he average 15 ppg and 5 apg and led the team in both those catagories and by the way this is only his 2nd year and his first year starting.

Well, if us schucks are smart enough to realize we need bigs, something tells me Jod does to. I think the problem is some GMs are afraid to do busines with him.

And from a GM point of view, you never really want to say X player is on the block because you get low balled to hell. OTOH, say you have conversation with GM D and then call GM Y and offer a pitch and sorta play the two off of one another.

How many times do we here that teams don’t want to trade a player within their own conference let alone their own division but right now, teams are shedding stuff left and right.

Finally, let’s face it, this is a league next year and perhaps the year after that has 6 teams that are the cream of the crop, all of them will be over the cap (Den starting 5 puts Den over the cap) and if you’re a 2nd tier team, are you trying to add a person to fill a spot, a hole or become part of the long term because you really have no snow balls chance in hell of realistically competing for a chip in the next 2 years barring a major injury to at least 5 of those 6 teams?

Don’t be surprised to see Dwayne Jones on the roster

@joe – thanks, that’s very generous…

@mike – we are already screwed and Chicago has to to make a move on the order of this magnitude if they want to show progress over last season because Boston, Cleveland, Orlando and even Detroit have made big moves.

Detroit could preempt them though if they wanted to move Rip badly enough but I’m not sure that Utah would be helped as far as the cap is concerned with this move.

But Detroit would definately be freed up for next season salary wise should they choose to not attempt to re sign Boozer.

I think the better move is to wait and see what Brandon Bass does. If Detroit can get him and retain their current assets then they wouldn’t have a leadership void next season. They still would probably be mediocre though so in the long run Joe will eventually have to move someone to move up in the draft or trade to get someone here. By then he’ll know better which young players are worth keeping around.

You guys think Charlotte and New Orleans would be down with this trade?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n8oxhp

Detroit gets:
C Emeka Okafor (from CHA)
SG Dontell Jefferson (from CHA)

New Orleans gets:
C Desagana Diop (from CHA)
SG Raja Bell (from CHA)

Charlotte gets:
C Tyson Chandler (from NOH)
SG Rasual Butler (from NOH)
SG Richard Hamilton (from DET)

CHARLOTTE gets a big man in Chandler to replace Okafor, plus shores up their 2-guard spot with Hamilton and Butler.

NEW ORLEANS cuts down on salary from about $78mil to about $74mil, setting up a smaller, more realistic trade for them to be able to dump about 3mil and get under the luxury tax (which is about $71mil). It’s much easier to dump $3mil than than $7mil.

DETROIT gets their center in Okafor, picks up Jefferson (some SG from the D-League) who can easily be waived with a salary of about $700K, or maybe used in a trade with Walter Sharpe’s contract (about the same amount) for a 2nd round pick to free up about $1.5 mil, adding that to our current cap space to grab another free agent.

If Boozer does go to Chicago, we’re screwed– and the Bulls will be a title contender.

Rrrreally?

Interesting, Joe would likely consider it.

I personally am still hesitant on Gordon starting. Unless if you get an all star in return, I don’t think would be necessary to trade him. Him and Prince for Emaka and Wallace would be a safer trade if Wallace can actually stay healthy.

How in the world does Boozer make Chicago a contender?

@ Boney:

/brgulker’d

 
WTF, man? Whatever your deal is, it’s getting old.

If you don’t like the idea, try explaining why.

I want a big man who can get average a double double. Okafor has that capacity. Rip is now redundant on this roster.

So far, I haven’t seen a better proposition from you.

Stop agitating the DBB class, joe. They’re my ship of fools to troll, not yours.

Kirk Hinrich gets paid way more than I thought he did.

Isn’t there anyway that the site owner can just ban Joe’s IP address? Most quality domains come with built in software to do so; I would know as I was an admin on a computer forum and about to be a guru on a another one until I got fed up with the owners.

First of all, staying true to the thread, I do not believe that we can get Brandon Bass for the money that we have remaining. It would be nice but I just don’t see it happening. I do however think we might have a shot at Channing Frye with that money though. Even though it has been rumored that there are more than 10 teams interested in him I believe that that is just his agent trying to bring up his market value. Frye would be a nice addition that would go along nicely with our youth movement.

Did anyone else miss it yesterday?

12:34:56 7/8/9? I did… twice. :(

I have to cosign Brgulker. He made a pretty innocuous claim. Clearly Rip for Okafor would be awesome for us. Do i think Cha would do it? No, but as far as I can tell Brgulker never argued that it was likely. So, basically, I don’t think he deserves the /snark.

I don’t know about Frye, he’s got a sub par rebound rate. I would take a guy like him as a last option. Once again, lets wait and see how the summer league pans out. There should be real intriguing possibilities

If the salary cap drops significantly next year, it will be a real boon for the Pistons. It will make it difficult to trade Rip but it screws all the teams that were clearing space for next year.

For example, Miami which was probably aiming for Bosh to team up with Wade currently has Wade (17mil player option) and three players with team options (James Jones, Beasley, Cook, and Chalmers) for the 2010 roster.

Assuming they let James Jones go, they’ll have 25mil committed 4 players.

If the salary cap is 53mil, that means they’ll have to fill 9 roster spots (minimum) for 28 million.

In comparison, the Pistons had to fill 4 roster spots (minimum) for 19mil. Two of those will go to Summers and Jerebko for minimum contracts.

“If the salary cap drops significantly next year, it will be a real boon for the Pistons. It will make it difficult to trade Rip but it screws all the teams that were clearing space for next year.”

Exactly, and we’re lucky we spent most of (if not all) of our cap space this summer. We’ll still be under the luxury tax next year, but if we still had cap space this summer and saved it, we’d be screwed next year with the projected lower salary cap.

I don’t know if someone else has posted this, but if you feel like puking… Here you go.

Ric Bucher’s Twitter, thought i’d share.

Told this a.m. by a Bulls source that the Boozer deal wasn’t happening. It’s been discussed. A Por/Jazz/Det deal was, too.

The Pistons have less than $2 million left in cap space,they wouldnt be able to get brandon bass unless there was a sign and trade agreement with the Mavs involved. Me personally id rather see a Prince-Affalo trade for Amare Stoudemire. Hey, Gordon, Hamilton, Villaneuva, Maxiell, and Stoudemire thats the way you “rebuild” a team! Not to mention that it might clear up enough cap space to get Bass at the MLE. Dont frown at this scheme to quick, any thing is possible in the NBA nowadays.

What kind of “Por/Jazz/Det deal” (as mentioned above) would make sense? On this site, we’ve talked about Boozer-for-Rip and Pryzbilla+another Blazer-for-Prince. But I can’t figure this one out.

FYI… Walter Sharpe is injured and Will Bynum has a personal issue so they won’t play in the summer league. Jonas Jerebko might not either because of some international restriction.

How can signing Amare free up cap space? He’s owed 15M this year. Seesh. And why would phoenix trade him for Prince+AA ? We might as well trade Rip+Tay for Dwight Howard or something and thats even a better way to ‘rebuild’!!

ESPN is still claiming a Chicago Booze deal is what’s poppin. I dunno.

Steve Kerr is just batshit enough to pull the trigger on your crazy deal.

@ Ali

I hope that comment wasn’t directed towards me, up to this point everything you wrote, I thought was a good opinion.

@ Sauce1977

I just can’t sit back and let people slam good players and then turn around and sing the praises of lessor players.

And then just like the Billups trade, once the good players gone, we want to cry how much they were a good player and we should have never traded them. To me that’s fake!!!! hate me or love me but it’s the truth. The Pistons need to be more like the Spurs and show some loyalty to their good players instead of throwing them under buses.

If the Spurs and Pop having giving up on Duncan,Parker and Manu why are we so quick to give up on our best players. Now clown that!!!

@QD:

Jerebko got cleared today by his former team, so he will play. In fact, he already scrimmaged this morning.

joe, you picked the wrong week to quit huffing glue.

after watching that video of sheed i gotta say

FUCK YOU SHEED.

the pistons got you a ring and even though last season sucked you didn’t have nothing good to say and just let kg fuckin talk shit bout some dark times. i second that love turning to hate.

@ Sauce1977

I’m just writing what I feel, not trying to score brownie points.

@brgulker

I’ve explained why, yet I’m told that I’m out of my mind. Good. You want a big who averages a double double. I do too

rip for okafor?

Rip is 31. He is signed through 35 years old. He will be in decline well before his deal ends.
Okafor is 27. He is the best post player CHA has.

Someone tell me again that Charlotte is selling their team, so it makes sense to trade your first or second best player for a guy who you hope will be motivated like he was in 2004? (5 years!)

okafor is more valuable than rip. I don’t see how anyone believes rip for okafor (or even rip + picks for okafor to “do whatever it takes”) is reasonable. If you were CHA would you honestly do it?

We saw how much nazr sucks. Ajinca needs to put on weight before he’s ready to make any impact. So rip + more pt for nazr is enough for okafor? You don’t trade a big for a little straight up, even Jordan knows that.

How’s that for response to what you deemed my tired shtick? Be realistic. Just what the young(er) bobcats want, to get older before they even make the playoffs once.

Yeah, Sheed not showing any love to Detroit was somewhat messed up.

Anthony D

sooo we have the MLE now?

Brgulker

trading okafor for rip puts CHA in the situation we’re in. No quality bigs. Diop? Nazr? Radmanovic?

Shit

Sheed is the definition of a “DISLOYAL” FRANCHISE PLAYER. he basically turned his back on the pistons as soon as the billups-iverson trade.

come on na sheed this the team that put a ring on yo finger not the other way around.

this dude is irrelevant to me from now on. and i have a good feeling he is going to retire with one ring.

@Boney some major trades would free up the cap for the MLE

Anthony D…we can’t get the MLE this year. We started the summer under the salary cap, so we are exempt from getting the MLE no matter what we do the rest of the summer.

Hey break out the pace makers the Celtics are in town. I feel the Celtics are the lease of the Pistons problem. The Pistons just need to fix the big problem without destroying the team. I’m confident that the Pistons going to be alot better than what people think. Dumars just need to keep adding players thats hungry to win. You never know the Pistons might shock the world.

Hahahaha.

Brownie points.

Laugh of the month. Thanks, joe, you’ll fit right in here.

Joe we’re cool for the most part, it just irked me when you were trolling around earlier (as I said, I was an admin at a computer forum and didn’t have much tolerance for it).

The Pistons will be a lottery team without a deeper frontline next year. I think everyone has realized that by now. The thing that scares me about shipping Rip for a center is that Gordon has awful defense. Especially when he guards opposing point guards, they have an eFG% over 60%.

Jim there is an exception to the MLE (ironic, yes). If you start under the cap by less than the MLE, then you can use the MLE. The pistons on the other hand, were $19 million under so there’s no question that we do not get the MLE. Also we’ll get the biannual back next year, so we can’t use that for Bass either.

The three-team trade trade makes a lot of sense for all the teams. Hinrich would fit perfectly with Roy in Portland. I’m not sure about a Detroit-Utah-Portland trade, though. Who would want what?

I say let Chicago take Boozer. We’ll just sign him away like we did with Gordon is he is healthy, and if he’s not, hell they can keep him.

Also, with Ric Bucher tweeting that the Port-Chi-Utah trade is unlikely, that makes me more confident it will happen.

I say let Chicago take Boozer. We’ll just sign him away like we did with Gordon is he is healthy, and if he’s not, hell they can keep him.

Tay and Kwame among others are expiring contracts this year. So if we wanted to, we could give Boozer an offer for $15 mil a year next year. In fact, we could give Bosh a deal like that, but I would rather take Boozer between the two (assuming he’s healthy) because we already have a perimeter big in Villanueva.

Also keeping in mind that if the cap does shrink, that may help us to the point that, with a few minor trades, we could offer what’s considered a big contract next year ourselves.

Regarding Bucher’s tweet, here is one Det-Port-Utah trade that works…

Detroit gets Boozer, Pryzbilla, Outlaw
Utah gets Hamilton
Portland gets Prince

We’d suddenly be one of the deepest teams in the league, but I’m not sure why Portland would go for it.

Portland wants a veteran 3 that can run the point, why else would they target Turkoglu?

I personally would not go after that trade because I don’t feel comfortable trading for Boozer if there’s no guarantees about his health. That’s why I say let Chicago take him, and then we’ll sign him if he plays 80 games. If you do a sign and trade with Prince, you get a large enough cap exception to make it work and get some quality back.

@ Boney: Char might do that because, for simplicity, and checked last year stats for Okafor & Bell, guessed at Diop/Nazr since they would play more and imputed what I thought Rip could do in Charlotte.

Currently:

Okafor = 13/10/2
Curr SG = Raja = 10/3/1

With Trade:

Diop/Nazr = 10/8/2
Rip = 22/3/3

They would essentially pick up about 10 more points a game, minimum. Additonally, and I going by what was on the bobcats blog that Okafor struggles against larger 5’s (FWIW). Both Nazr and Diop are making the full MLE and currently Char gets little value for that money, only the minutes they play when Okafor doesn’t.

Swapping Rip for Okafor (basically same salary) they get more production for that money, the terms of the contracts are about the same since Okafor signed his extension 2 years ago (I believe). I think defensively they end up being the same if not a bit better because Diop/Nazr can guard bigger 5’s. With Felton, Rip, Wallace & RadMan (don’t know if he starts or not or if it’s J. Howard) those guys I think get more touches to offsett the limited offensive game Diop/Nazr has.

Now as for selling the team, do I think Okafor/Raja vs. Nazr/Diop/Rip makes me a better bet in the playoffs to advance? That’s entirely depends on who I surround each with. But I think a side of Diop/Nazr/Rip vs. Okafor/Raja, I take Rip’s side if for no other reason than in the playoffs points come at a premium and a struggle is a struggle but over the long haul the side with Rip will put up more points, or at least have a better opportunity to score.

The Chi trade this morning has Boozer to Chi, Hinrich to Port & T. Thomas to Utah + parts.

@Anthony D: We don’t have the MLE, because we’re under the cap.

@QD

Jonas Jerebko might not either because of some international restriction.

He was cleared yesterday, according to reports.

@Boney:

How’s that for response to what you deemed my tired shtick? Be realistic. Just what the young(er) bobcats want, to get older before they even make the playoffs once.

Actually, I like that response, because it’s well-reasoned and written in proper grammar. Also, it doesn’t make you sound like a condescending asshole, so that’s good too. I tend to prefer people who post in English, without the condescending bull shit you vomited all over this board earlier, which was directed my way. And given that we’ve chatted here and on Twitter before, I didn’t expect you to act like that. But now I know. Lesson learned: don’t disagree with Boney or risk feeling his wrath!!! Get over yourself.

@Ali:
Boozer would likely be a 1 year rental, and then we’d have a ton of space again next year. Given that we’d also have CV, Max, Kwame, and Pryzbilla up front, I think it’s a great risk to take.

Also, Prince’s contract runs through 2011 and will not be expiring next summer.

@ Ali: I didn’t think Tay’s contract ran out this year. I thought it was next.

And if the trade goes thru, I think Port need for a o-initiating 3 goes down with Hinrich in the back court.

My mistake, I thought it did.

If you make the deal purely for cap space, I’d rather not include outlaw in the deal because Portland can afford to take on salary and we already have tons of small forwards. Then we’d have around $21 million (assuming no other deals this year and Kwame does not re-up) to spend next year if the cap stays the same. That will be enough to get Amare.

To the very least, we could inter change him and CV at center, but more importantly he becomes a big trade asset. You could then turn Amare into the next Tim Duncan, whoever that may be.

Another option would be to trade Rip for Boozer. Then you turn around and do a sign and trade with Pheonix, Amare for CV31 and Prince next year. That gives them an expiring contract and a quality frontline player. We get our superstar. On top of that, we still have $11-15 mil in cap space, depending on whether we keep Kwame (I say we do).

That would give us the most flexibility and put us instantly in contention again.

ALi: if I read that correctly we basically end up trading Rip/Tay/CV for Amare? After letting Boozer walk?

No, in the lower scenario you would trade Tay+CV (and most likely draft picks) for Amare. Then you turn Rip into $11 million of cap space. If Kwame walks, that’s $15 million in cap space. That’s enough to go after another star. Or you could get a bunch of pieces and then trade for a legit starting center.

Whatever tickles your jollies.

Got it. Thanks.

hey does anyone know where to watch the summer league for free? ATDHE hasn’t had any of the other vegas games so far so I doubt they’d have pistons games.

bass not just FISH, but also basketball PLAYER. good young POTENTIAL, not flop around on COURT like other bass. just epinion

That certainly tickled my jollies.

Thanks Michael Curry, we would have never realized that without your help.

Summer League isn’t free anymore.

MarkButter in SoCal – That’s a good explanation of why the Rip for Okafor deal could work. Basically the Bobcats and Pistons both have too much money invested in players who play the same position (C and SG respectively) and need to balance their roster production.

@Ali

Then you turn Rip into $11 million of cap space. If Kwame walks, that’s $15 million in cap space.

Dear Lord. I don’t understand why this isn’t getting through:

The cap is going to shrink next year, by as much as 8 million.

So, in short, for a team right at the cap this season, which we are right now, clearning 15 million in cap space is not going to create 15 million in money we can spend next summer.

It will create 15 mil – how much the cap shrinks. If the cap does shrink by 8 mil., trading Rip for a salary dump only gives us 7 mil. to spend.

The solution is not to do a salary dump with Rip but rather to trade him (or anyone, for that matter) for a quality player(s) in return.

bass not just FISH, but also basketball PLAYER. good young POTENTIAL, not flop around on COURT like other bass. just epinion

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111

“15 mil – how much the cap shrinks. "

15 mil minus how much the cap shrinks

And not to mention we have several ascending contracts to consider as well.

Sorry for the three posts in a row.

@coachDP

I agree; Bass certainly doesn’t flop around on COURT like other bass. Also, not like Varejao.

@Ali

I think CV will give us similar production to Amare at less than 1/2 the cost, and about 1/8 the ego (and CV is younger). I just don’t think Joe would even consider swapping the 2 guys, unless he’s also getting a couple of other young rotation guys (which PHX can’t really provide).

Bambino Grande Glen Davis is also very much on the Dumars Doppler 4 radar.

wow…there are a bunch of hopeful idiots over at realgm…they don’t make any sense lol

Joe3: Thanks. Your explanation was a sentence, mine ~paragraph. . lol

I think it makes great sense for each team. However, if we can figure that out regarding needing more frontline, then certainly agents & other gms can too. You always get hosed when you need to make a deal rather than wanting to make a deal.

As for the cap going down, I can see it going down but not by 8M. The players assoc is already pissed at Stern for saying next year’s cap number estimate cause it’s going to cause some FAs not to get as much money now and obviously next year.

The revenue of the NBA actually went up by ~2.5% this year and I believe the new TV congracts kick in next year. I think it was Stern’s way of preventing teams from tanking this year with a bunch of player minimums and saving cap space for next summer. Plus, it puts those teams with Bron/Wade extra in better position to sign. If Bron leaves Clev, I think that francise might dry up and go away. Who’s going to go there and play with Anderson and Parker.

With us, we need at least 1 more legit 5. After that, the minutes the third team depth at th 4 and 5 will play will be minimal barring injury and certain matchups.

Though I do like AA, I wouldn’t mind trading him to get Bass, and then sign D. Jones (props to who pointed him out, sorry, too lazy to scroll up). He’s exactly the type of 3rd team depth I’m talking about. Big Baby, yeah, I’d take him. But he’s like old girlfriends and ex-wives: If you gotta worry about weight in the beginning, you always gotta worry about weight. Because they’re never skinnier than in the beginning. (and I pray to God my wife doesn’t see this post).

That would be me, I pointed out Jones. As for big baby, i would take him over Bass in a heartbeat. But he’s going to command a lot more money, I can see him being a legit perimeter PF, averaging 15 a game or so.

Joel I know that the summer league costs $15, that’s why i asked if anyone knows of a site that’s streaming them. ATDHE generally has most official games, but never any summer league/spring training etc.

As for CV31 compared to Amare, the players aren’t even close. Amare finishes at a higher rate, has a better inside game, is stronger, more athletic, is better at getting into the lane and dunking, not to mention has a ridiculous FG% for how many points he produces. I would take him over CV and Prince any day.

Amare can bring you 25 ppg at 60% shooting, and likely Jerebko (who seems to be the best of the SF bunch right now from what Keith Langlois just said today) can provide at least 10 ppg at 50% shooting (few shot attempts=high efficiency). That’s replacing 30 ppg at 45% with 35 ppg+ at 56% shooting. I would do that in a heartbeat.

I should note that last year’s numbers were a fluke for Amare. That’s how talented he is. He put up 20 ppg off 54% in a situation where the coach simply could not get their offense going smoothly. The moment they got in Alvin Gentry (who by all means is a mediocre coach), he put up 40 points in a game where he got his retina scratched. Imagine what he’ll put up with a great offensive coordinator like John Kuester.

I agree; Bass certainly doesn’t flop around on COURT like other bass. Also, not like Varejao.

Lol @ Birdman. Good one!

That would be me, I pointed out Jones. As for big baby, i would take him over Bass in a heartbeat. But he’s going to command a lot more money, I can see him being a legit perimeter PF, averaging 15 a game or so.

You cannot be serious. The only thing Davis does is score, and he doesn’t do that all that efficiently.

He rebounds at a less-than-average rate for PF’s, and he’s a defensive liability.

I don’t mean this to offend you or talk down to you, but the more you post, the most I’m glad you’re not our GM.

We’d have Amare at the 5 and Big Baby at the 4. Talk about a crappy front court.

@ Ali: Thanks.

@ Brgulker: I think Ali’s original post didn’t have him being a stud. Just a serviceable 5 behind, at this point Kwame and in large part because of what we could get him for. If he was being targeted as our starting 5, yeah, that wouldn’t be so good.

Kid just called and said (ESPN) that Pritchard said there’s no way the Chi/Port/Jazz happens. Also said Rip/Boozer trade being discussed.

Dude are you kidding me? I’ve been preaching defense this entire time I’ve been here. Haven’t you noticed that the reason why I’m so hesitant on trading Rip is because of placing Stuckey and Gordon together?

Also you have to be fair and read all the information, not just pick your spots and twist the story. Big Baby would be coming off the bench, he’s a solid rotation big, not a starter for a good number of years. He’s got great potential as a big to stretch the defense. I compared big baby to BRANDON FUCKING BASS not any legit forward. Jesus.

Also if you had been willing to read all that I’ve being saying lately, which you haven’t and dubiously called me out without any basis, you would have known that I want Stoudemire at the 4 with a defensive big at the 5.

Man you just love to pick your spots that make you sound smart without doing any other work don’t you?

The more I think about it, I don’t think I’d want to add Bass or Baby to this team- especially Baby. They are both nice complimentary rotation guys for a contending team, but the Pistons could use more muscle. Undersized jump shooting big men don’t really fit the bill. Zaza fits their need a little better.

Jamison: I think ZaZa just re-upped with Atl.

I would agree with you Jamison, except who else is there to add via free agency? Dyess was the gem for this year’s free agency in terms of legit post big men.

I think Bass would be the guy to take for toughness, but big baby has the higher ceiling, especially if he can get his weight manageable to the point of being able to guard other perimeter big men.

And its been over 20 minutes since my response to brgulker with not a word in return. I normally don’t like calling people out like this, but that guy has to either be more willing to read all the information or not go around calling people stupid.

I say screw it. Bring in one of our hidden gems in europe and plug him in at back up 5. Save the money for a mid season deal when teams are looking to scrap talent for $. Yeah, we’re unbalanced. Are we in the conversation for a run if we added bass? Nope. keep the cash and flexibility and fleece somebody during the season (baring a trade of rip for a big).

Ali: Chill out.

/OT

I’ve been very bored at work this morning, so I decided to do some statistical research regarding our newest big, Charlie V. He’s starting for us now, so I thought I’d go through and get his averages for only when he played 30+ (starter) minutes last year. Here’s what I found:

48% fg
38% 3fg
23.2 ppg
8.9 rpg
2.5 apg
1 bpg
1 spg

So, if he stays statistically true to his 30mpg averages of last year, we basically got Chris Bosh for $7mil/year— you read that right. Bosh’s 2009 numbers:

48.7% fg
24.5% 3ptfg
22.7 ppg
10 rpg
2.5 apg
1 bpg
1 spg

A pinch more scoring, a pinch less rebounding. And he can shoot the 3 much better than Bosh (actually hit 7/11 one game, and hit 4+ 6 times). Not to mention he should be getting many more easy inside buckets playing the pick ‘n roll with Stuck/MFWB/Benny G and getting wide open jumpshots from the pick ’n pop. I wouldn’t be surprised for his FG% to be right at or above 50% this year. And the rebounding numbers are VERY respectable. 9/game is right in the top 20 for the league. Plus you get a steal, a block, a 2.5 assists to boot. As it stands, we’re basically improving on Sheed for 10ppg, 2rpg, 1apg, same steals and blocks, better FG%, better 3ptFG%, better FT%, and ten years younger— for HALF the price.

We just need somebody comfortable with doing the dirty work the play alongside him.

/end OT

/cosign with Gabe.

Gabe I’m over it, it wasn’t too big of a deal. But please don’t tell me to chill out when you had nothing to do with situation, just a pet peeve of mine.

Craig what hidden gems do you speak of? You can only ship a player off for the first two years, after that you no longer own their NBA rights. Only center in the making I’m aware of is Trent Plaisted, who recently had back surgery and was never a great rebounder in college.

I think Jonas Jerebko is going to be a very important part of the team this. Word from Keith Langlois is that he’s the most NBA ready and talented of the 3 SF we just drafted. Daye may have a higher ceiling, but I don’t see him being part of the rotation for at least a year or two.

I agree with Gabe and Joel, chill the hell out Ali.

Jerebko (who seems to be the best of the SF bunch right now from what Keith Langlois just said today)

I laughed out loud at this statement.

He’s got great potential as a big to stretch the defense. I compared big baby to BRANDON FUCKING BASS not any legit forward. Jesus.

Big Baby sucks, always will suck. Bass is better than him at everything except scoring totals.

Also if you had been willing to read all that I’ve being saying lately, which you haven’t and dubiously called me out without any basis, you would have known that I want Stoudemire at the 4 with a defensive big at the 5.

I have been reading you. The problem I see with the theory is, you’d have to gut the team to get both Amare and a defensive 5. I haven’t seen a workable scenario that 1) is feasible for us and 2) would be an attractive offer to PHX.

Man you just love to pick your spots that make you sound smart without doing any other work don’t you?

Chill out, man.

And its been over 20 minutes since my response to brgulker with not a word in return. I normally don’t like calling people out like this, but that guy has to either be more willing to read all the information or not go around calling people stupid.

Lol, seriously, chill out. I didn’t call you stupid; I just said I don’t want you as our GM. If it makes you feel any better, I’ve got serious doubts about Jod right now, too. So if it helps, think of yourself as being in the same category as Jod – not a bad place to be.

And, fwiw, I have a job. I went out for a lunch break. DBB isn’t my life, let alone posting responses to everyone who takes offense at an innocent comment.

======

@ Joel: what about turnovers? Also, I think I remember seeing that CV struggles to stay out of foul trouble…

Joel I totally agree about the CV31-Chris Bosh comparison. From the very start I’ve said that Villanueva was a steal. He’ll be just as good as Bosh if Kuester is who I think he is (judging from the press conference, he did a splendid job and showed promise).

That’s a very fair comparison considering that they are both perimeter bigs. Now if only we could get him to go down low into the post more often….:)

Still totally confused about all the love and attention for Brandon Bass… He’s a bad, bad post player, a marginal rebounder and his only upside appears to be an 18’ jumper that he shoots around 43% on. This reminds me of all the love that Trevor Ariza was getting on here. Makes no sense when we have Tayshaun, yet people were all over his jock. Am I missing something here? Does Brandon Bass fill the glaring hole we have in our frontcourt, which happens to be at the 5 and not as much the 4? Looney tunes. We’re talkin’ about Bass, man?

Breaking news on NBA.com homepage:

Aldridge: Magic, forward Bass agree to 4-year deal.

There’s sarcasm that post that doesn’t translate to print. The “wealth” of 2nd rounders that we’ve been drafting and shipping abroad hasn’t and won’t amount to much, but we’ve got to have a warm body that would work for now.

@Kay Wan:
Thank god.

Joe Dumars said were looking for impact players, so I think Amare fit that profile. Now what we have to give up is another thing. I think Phx would excepted Prince and maxell for Amare just because they need a Starting SF.

Now the only way that will work for the Pistons, we will have to land Bass.

Hmm, well that means that Boozer is probably our man then. How about Leon Powe? He’s a post player, and he’ll come cheap because of his injury.

Hmm, well that means that Boozer is probably our man then. How about Leon Powe? He’s a post player, and he’ll come cheap because of his injury.

Mike there’s no infatuation with Bass, it’s just that he’s the one of the only remaining big free agents that would be available for cheap.

More CV numbers for you:

In those same games (31 total) where he played 30+ minutes, he averaged 3.6 fouls/game and 2.1 turnovers. Bosh was 2.5 and 2.3 respectively.

sorry about the double post, I figured that if I stopped the page in the middle of the process, it wouldn’t go through

You can watch the young Pistons live form Las Vegas, playing basketball. LOL

NBA.com

Just $14.99 for all LVSL games.

They are actually supposed to have game announcers for each of the games this year. If so it will be pretty cool.

Trade Walter Sleepy Sharpe now. LOL

P.S. Johnson is supposed to play in at least a couple of the Bucks games. There is I believe a 10 foul out rule in the LVSL. LOL

More CV numbers for you:

In those same games (31 total) where he played 30+ minutes, he averaged 3.6 fouls/game and 2.1 turnovers. Bosh was 2.5 and 2.3 respectively.

====
Give the guy a break, he hasn’t been asked yet by the Pistons to guard anyone.

For those of you still following ex-Pistons you can see a short interview from a day or so ago with Johnson on the link below.

The video is entitle “Amir Goes To Vegas”

http://www.nba.com/bucks/summer_league_2009.html

I can see having a mediocre team brings out the dbag in all of us. I find myself much more ornery when talking about the Pistons as well these days. Still, in the spirit of “at least Petey stopped posting,” can we play nice?

Seriously Mike? For those of us following ex-Pistons?

The only ex-Pistons I follow are the ex-Pistons who did something noteworthy for the franchise, like Billups and McDyess.

Give the guy a break, he hasn’t been asked yet by the Pistons to guard anyone.

Not sure why he needs a “break.” I was simply showing that he doesn’t foul too much and has around the same TO rate as Bosh. Those are “good for you” stats, not “shame on you” stats. Where’s the “break” come in?

i wonder who agree with me when i say, sam smith is the most dull-witted sports writer ever!

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/asksam_090710.html

RE: Jonas Jerekbo. I prediction (based solely on reading draftexpress profiles) that Jerekbo would be the Pistons backup SF.

I think a lot of people on here are predisposed to hate him because they wanted Danny Green. But, after seeing what Deron Washington did to Green in college, I can see why Dumars didn’t take him.

I have a feeling Jerekbo is going to surprise people. Especially since his biggest weakness according to draftexpress was his ability to drive and that’s the thing that Langlois praised in his blog.

*predicted

Bucher reported on twitter:

BOOZ to DET
PRINCE to PORT
BAYLESS + TRADE EXCEPTION to UTAH

I’m excited for summer league. Very excited. I’d really like a couple of our unknown bigs to do something, maybe make the team/save us some FA money. It’d be nice to get a decent backup C for <$1mil a year.

@Boney

Not Happening.

Ric Bucher on Twitter:

RicBucheR: “Deal was Booz to Det, Prince to Por, Trade Exception + Bayless to Utah. But it won’t happen.”

And it won’t.

@Boney

HOLY FUCK.

I like that a lot. Now I can make fun of my coworkers/Bulls fans. They all had Booze-boners. Now they will have Booze-balls.

yeah, I left out the not happening part just so I can see brgulker pull a David Carradine on himself since we didn’t acquire Okafor

Channing Frye to Phoenix, 2 yrs./$3.8 mil.

Are you telling me we couldn’t do better than 2 yrs/$3.8 mil for Channing Frye? A ridiculously promising young big just dying for minutes? And we have a depleted front court? And pretty much that exact amount of money to spend?

Good job, Phoenix. Bad job, us.

The Boozer trade to Chicago is spawning conspiracy theories about Portland.

Frye to Phoenix? this is really sounding like a opening for the pistons to trade for Stoudemire.

OT: how ridiculous is it that the NBA is charging to watch the Summer League online? The coverage is lame: one fixed camera; boring announcers; you can’t really make out who’s doing what.

Kerr is scheduled to have a meeting with Amare’ either today or tomorrow about his future in Phoenix. It got pushed back for him to “woo” Grant Hill into re-signing. The article I read gave the impression that Amare’ would be a Sun next year.

But… who know?

@Rob G: Completely ridiculous. I’m surprised they aren’t mocked more for it. I can watch regular games for free — why would I pay for summer league? Lame.

yeah, I left out the not happening part just so I can see brgulker pull a David Carradine on himself since we didn’t acquire Okafor

Seriously, Boney, what’s up your @$$? And what have you got against me all of a sudden?

Off-topic:

Because the Robot Armageddon is nigh, we humans will have to disguise ourselves in order to blend in with our metallic overlords. This website shows you what your cyborg name would be.

@Rob G: Completely ridiculous. I’m surprised they aren’t mocked more for it. I can watch regular games for free — why would I pay for summer league? Lame.

Maybe they’re trying to generate revenue to keep the salary cap from shrinking next summer?

/sarcasm

Evidently, the Pacers have signed Dahntay Jones.

That is correct (happened 2 or 3 days ago), but I doubt that’ll do much for them. He’s a great asset to have on a contender as a defensive stopper, but he doesn’t have much offensive ability.

Do you guys really like Frye that much? I just don’t see it.

I think guys like Frye, Bass, and Big Baby are great pieces as a 4th big man on a contender. But for the Pistons, I would much rather add a decent center for a balanced rotation before adding someone like that.

If we are going after a backup 4, why not go get Leon Powe? He is much more effective in the paint, and is the kind of guy that would thrive in Detroit with his hustle and grit. He’d also come much cheaper since he’ll be on the shelf for half the season.

Jamison, they’re are the only guys that are easily available as free agents. We realize that you need a Samuel Dalembert or Emaka Okafor to win in the playoffs.

I do like Leon Powe though, and have been mentioning him before.

QD:

Good call on Jerebko, I could definitely see him being a good back-up SF. Personally, I wasn’t upset about us picking Jerebko, he’s good insurance in case Daye never reaches his potential, as Jerebko’s “floor” is relatively high and he’ll probably be a good role player at the very least.

The pick that I’ll never understand is Summers. Summers wasn’t even close to being as good as Daye was in college (and Daye is a developmental pick!), and I thought Blair made way more sense for our roster- especially considering how we’re now looking at signing bigs anyway (bigs who will probably be less productive than Blair would have been and they’ll cost more money).

good good good good. My brain’s not working so well today.

If Bass is out of reach I think there’s a chance Jod goes for someone like Wilcox, and maybe Jones from the Summer league team to add depth, then tries to get a better C further down the line.

I realize that those guys are all available in free agency, but that doesn’t mean they are worth tying up cap space with.

Again, those guys are all decent, but a 3rd power forward that can’t really play center and is primarily a jump shooter is bit of a luxury for a borderline playoff team. I’d rather not do anything than pick up guys that aren’t needed.

@Gabe

I agree. The Jerebko pick didn’t upset me nearly as much as picking the wrong DeJuan.

Wilcox… I love that idea. He can at least pose as a center against most teams. And as a bonus, he probably could be had for a 1-year deal.

life must suck for patrick mills.

@TDP

J.O.E.L. B.A.U.M.A.N.: Journeying Operational Entity Limited to Basic Assassination, Ultimate Mathematics and Accurate Nullification

I like it.

@Jamison

I also cosign on Wilcox. He’s athletic as hell, finishes above the rim, and has legit size.

It’s really starting to smell like desperation around here. Wilcox? There’s a reason nobody’s signed that guy. And, again, a pf, not a C.

Craig: I thought Dwayne Jones sounded way more desperate than Chris Wilcox.

Wilcox would certainly fit the bill of “reclamation projects” that have become popular in the D. Picked 8th ahead of Amare, Caron Butler, et. al. in the 2002 Draft, he’s never played on a team that finished the season with a winning record. I’ve always thought he looked pretty decent offensively in a vacuum, but maybe teams he’s on never win for a reason? I dunno. He’s 27 this season and pretty much at a career crossroads with much left to prove. He’s a thick, bruising 6’10" body but he’s not really gonna block shots and he’s pretty foul-prone. I guess for really minimal dollars it couldn’t hurt to fill out the roster with him. I just don’t think he figures into any Pistons improvement plan beyond this year.

Craig: Wilcox ain’t so great, but honestly, I don’t care who we get so long as it’s not Big Baby.

Just to further drive home the point that there are literally no “legit centers” left in free agency to sign (hence, Wilcox/Frye/Bass/etc.), here’s what’s left (6’11" and up):

Johan Petro
Zaza Pachulia
Robert Swift
Chris Mihm

Bleh. Give me 6’10", 26 year old, athletic Chris Wilcox. Yup.

I actually like Zaza too. Stone me if you want, but for cheap, the guy’s fucking gritty. And huge.

Thank you, LB.

He’s a thick, bruising 6′10″ body

A “thick 221” pounds. Granted he’s probably added weight, but that’s tiiiiny. Like, 6 pounds heavier than Tayshaun tiny. I like Wilcox, but we need to focus on players that can spot up at the 5 and not get pushed around be the newer, heavier 5’s in the East.

Please ignore that. Basketball Reference has him weighing in at 221, Yahoo at 235. Still a bit light, but light years better than 221.

I look for Deron to significantly outplay Jarebko whoever this coming week.

Of course Dumars current “coach of the year” may decide to play Deron at the #2 and not the #3.

According to Jarebko’s scouting report on DraftExpress Jarebko sounds like a slightly taller version of Delfino.

I lot of Pistons fans liked Delfino but I guess Delfino prefers Russian Vodka and Russian Women first hand in Moscow.

Re: Wilcox

Depends on what you’re looking for. Are you looking for a diamond in the rough who could become a part of the young core or are you looking for a one year rental?

As a one year rental, he’s pretty good. But, he’s had enough chances where you can be pretty sure he’s reached his ceiling.

If you’re looking for a diamond in the rough, if that Dwayne Jones kid plays well in the Summer League, might as well take a flyer on him (a non-guaranteed contract so there’s flexibility if you need his roster spot in a trade).

I think Delfino probably just prefers playing basketball as opposed to setting on the Pistons’ bench. He deserved better than how LB/Flip treated him. He was the original Amir.

Predicting The Top Pistons players in the LVSL
-————
1. Bynum
2. Washington (or it could be reversed)
3. Summers
4. Daye
5. Jarebko

Hakim Warrick is still out there, and the qualifying offer the Grizzlies made him is retarded cheap, so we should be able to match. Just a thought, although he would be 1 of 12,357 sub-6’10" forwards on our roster…

@Mike:
Bynum won’t be playing. Trade Washington Now.

umm…

are we fucking serious? Frye to Phoenix for a lot less than what Detroit could’ve offered?

Chris Wilcox is HARDLY 221lbs. I put Wilcox in the Danny Fortson mold. He’s good in spurts, so-so in other spurts, overall disappointing.

I’d take him on the team though.

@brgulker – just fucking with you man. stop getting bent out of shape

Langlois just reported that Jarebko basically schooled the rest of the rooks’ asses in the scrimmages yesterday, so I would have move him up that list of your just a smidge. I do think that Washington is going to turn heads though. Pretty sure that his improvement is what’s making AA suddenly expendable. Just thinking about that kid’s physical potential gives me goosebumps. He’s a freak. Like Iguodala freak. Crazy freak. 50" vert freak.

mike, bynum isn’t going to be playing:

http://www.freep.com/article/20090709/SPORTS03/90709085/1048/

@Boney

Yeah, that Frye deal has me a little pissy. You’re telling me we couldn’t pay him $1.9mil/year? With a player option for the second year no less! Ridiculous. If he plays well AT ALL, that might be the signing of the summer.

Joel: I like Hakim Warrick especially at the price (or lack thereof) he seems to be commanding. I just dunno how he fits on our team at all. He’s like a 6’9" SF/PF tweener and we just spent all those draft picks on SFs and I hope/expect a bounce back year from Maxiell. I really would rather go for a more traditional 6’10" or bigger guy. I think Pachulia is off the market though and has re-upped w/Atlanta.

Dallas has a lot of centers now assuming they are able to get Gortat (Damp, Gortat Hollins, Jawai). Maybe Nathan Jawai is on the market? No but seriously, at least Ryan Hollins is 7 feet and blocks shots. Not much of an upgrade, but it’s something and I think it would address weaknesses better than Wilcox. I think he’s a RFA.

Hey, what about that Oberto guy, heard he just got released…

Yeah, Craig. You’re right. We could also try to lure Darko from NY.

Mihm wouldn’t be bad either, and he’s probably play for the league minimum. Then we’d have recreated the ‘05 Lakers frontcourt, so that’s pretty neat. But seriously, he’s be cheap, is 7’ and works his ass off. There are worse options for sure.

This thread feels like a conversation at a bar where you and your friends are trying to talk each other into believing that the ugly girls present are worth a shot.

That’s exactly what it is, albeit with a slightly homosexual bent since we’re trying to sell each other on tall, athletic men.

Ugh.

Well, at least we got two good free agents and a (promising?) head coach before the summer turned to poop.

@Joel:
Check out that ass on Wilcox.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/2009/07/10/afflalo-a-nugget/

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/07/report_arron_afflalo_could_be.html

I don’t like this if it’s true about surrendering Aflalo and Sharpe for cap space. We could end up missing Aflalo’s defense but this is the only way Joe could swing a trade or pick up a free agent that’s still available.

and it might mean that rip is staying put, unless jerebko et. al. is taking afflalo’s place…

Shawn, who would the Nuggets trade for Aflaco?

Pretty sure Washington’s gonna make the team as the 4th guard/3rd SF. This is probably why Afflalo suddenly became expendable.

Sharpe became expendable when we drafted other small forwards that don’t have narcolepsy.

Off-topic, since CV31 is so tight with CB4, maybe he can lure him here to the D.

I like Rip and like his game but Detroit is going to be a horrible rebounding team if he’s getting minutes at SF and Tay is getting minutes at PF. The roster is unbalanced and adding Big Baby or whoever doesn’t change that fact that you are going to have tens of millions of dollars in contracts either A) sitting on the bench or B) playing out of position for big stretches of games. That’s not good.

Distance, last call and alcohol are a girl’s best friend.

Unfortunately, unless Jod is hatching a major coup, we’re almost at that stage of frantically looking at our watches, looking around the bar and saying “I can pound that many in the amount of time left” in order to take her home.

On the bright side, training camp is still 3 months away, so we’ve got a slow ticking watch.

Longest three months ever.

Sharpe became expendable when we drafted other small forwards that don’t have narcolepsy.

Motherfucking hilariously done, sir.

I like my NBA players how I like my coffee… ground up and in the freezer. Wait.

That rumor doesn’t say who Denver would trade back. Denver’s way over the cap so they would have to send back roughly equal salary (or more since Detroit has 1.7mil in cap space left).

Linus Kleiza and Renaldo Balkman are the only ones that seem to work. So, I doubt it.

Possible fallout from the San Antonio McDyess deal. Ouch.

@ QD: Yeah, I read where just Den starting 5 puts them over the cap. WTF?? wasn’t the whole purpose of trady Camby last year for a 2nd round pick to get them under the cap?

I know it’s a new season and all, but they’ve got to add 6 more players (birdman 6th man). And with LA adding Artest (assuming they sign Odom) den is even further behind the Lakers and now SA and Dall just closed the gap with Marion & Gortat.

And except for a couple of goofs trying to inbound the ball, they played their asses off and still lost to the Lakers who didn’t bring it every nite except games 5 & 6. Anybody know where Stan Kroneke (owner I think) gets/got his money from? It would appear he’s got an ink press in his basement.

Linas Kleiza would be a cheap (if incomplete) replacement for Prince, assuming the mythical Blazers/Jazz/Pistons trade takes place. Kleiza wouldn’t have to play many minutes, since Detroit has loads of young, recently-drafted SFs. And he could back up CV31 too.

TDP: Their window is 2 years, 3 max. You can’t put a price on a ring but alot of teams are trying to bid up the price of one, that’s for sure.

Is Kleiza signed? I know they pulled their offer last year at the 11th hour (just before the 31-Oct deadline) which in my mind means they had already been talking to Jod about Billups and probably had a deal in place already.

Brandon Bass to Orlando. This thread shall be dead. I refuse to read a thread on Wilcox or Mihm.

Game 1 summer league, please save us!

David Thorpe just tweeted that Dujuan Summers is the best guy on the court.

word, just posted Languois tweet on the other thread – DeSu has got 20 at the end of 3

…but I guess Delfino prefers Russian Vodka and Russian Women first hand in Moscow.

Also Russian hair gel

You guys are worried about Kaman’s injury history and you’re thinking of picking up Wilcox? That guy is made of glass and has only played a full season once. And he hasn’t even come CLOSE to playing a full season plenty of times. I’d take Kaman before Wilcox.

http://deeeetroitbasketball.blogspot.com/

Anthony, did you just try to publicize your own blog in these comments?

Lame.