Ben Gordon on Detroit’s new style

BigZ: Guys take jobs because the guy that was suppose to do the job didn’t get it done. Whether it’s football, basketball, the bank CEO or the local sheriff.

I think they will co-exist fine. Rip was willing to come off the bench last year and if training camp says he needs to start or come off the bench this year, he will. It’s not like he’s out there playing for a contract knowing the firt bad pass he’s going to sit the rest of the game, if for no other reason than MCIAFI isn’t here.

Some nites BG will go off and some nites it will be Rip. Some nites it will be both and other nites neither.

@ Big Z:

Rip Hamilton was the Piston’s best player last year.

I disagree completely. I would say Dice and Tay (excluding the playoffs) were significantly better. What does Rip excel at other than scoring?

@ joe:

I’m sick of all the Rip and BG pissing contest

I don’t think it’s a pissing contest between those two guys; they’ll handle it like pro’s. I think the discussion about here has been that there are only 48 minutes to be had at SG per night … who’s gonna get the bulk of them? And which of the two will get played out of position the most?

@ Shinons:

Did you miss the part where I said I don’t really care?

Okay, so you bring up an issue, respond to the issue several times, and then claim to not care. Evade much? I mean, if you’re gonna raise an issue, that’s great; that’s how it works. But it’s more than a little silly to raise an issue, respond, and then just start dodging.

But you’re pulling this argument out of your ass – no one’s even talked about this.

So should I get your approval before making a comment? We extended Rip because Jod valued Rip as a player, i.e., as a good player, Rip is an asset to the team. I’m not sure why that’s such a novel concept; I thought I was just stating the obvious …

Very douchey, but I don’t really care. You are a shit-ton more worked up about this topic than I am.

Douchey. Right. You want me to sing kumbayah with Rip and I’m douchey.

Look, it sucked for Rip to lose his best friend like that, I’m sure. I’ve been through the same thing. But that’s just life for all of us; work gets in the way of friendships. So yeah, when someone gets all whiny about a multi-millionaire whose friend had to move because of his job and then suggests that we should somehow sympathize with that, yeah, it works me up a bit. Poor Rip and his 33 million dollar contract. Awww, what a raw deal. How sad.

I actually read that headline as Ben Wallace…

Then when he started saying “we” I thought, that’s awfully optimistic given that you’re not signed yet.

“How would that feel, working alongside the guy you know is going to take your job? You just don’t know when…”

Really, you could say that about Tayshaun too. The Pistons did just bring in 4 small forwards. But, I’m sure he will teach and mentor them just the same. Because he wants to win.

Rip wants to win too. I think he’ll be a good egg this year.

I want to see how well Rip shoots this year without DICE and Sheed setting screens for him. BG can score on his own and make things happen. Rip needs to run around a slew of screens and then catch and shoot. CV cannot set screens like DICE and Sheed. Maybe Kwame can

Personally I really like Rip and my son went to his camp – but without CB and bigs to set screens he is not very effective

Okay, so you bring up an issue, respond to the issue several times, and then claim to not care. Evade much? I mean, if you’re gonna raise an issue, that’s great; that’s how it works. But it’s more than a little silly to raise an issue, respond, and then just start dodging.

See here:
“I don’t really care enough to debate the "Was Rip screwed" argument – I think it’s been thoroughly played out over the past year. The bottom line is the sooner we trade Rip, the better for everyone involved.”

Right before you got on your little emotional hissy fit. Give it up. I don’t give a shit.

Douchey. Right. You want me to sing kumbayah with Rip and I’m douchey.

I could care less what you sing. But yeah, you’re acting like a douche.

Look, it sucked for Rip to lose his best friend like that, I’m sure. I’ve been through the same thing. But that’s just life for all of us; work gets in the way of friendships. So yeah, when someone gets all whiny about a multi-millionaire whose friend had to move because of his job and then suggests that we should somehow sympathize with that, yeah, it works me up a bit. Poor Rip and his 33 million dollar contract. Awww, what a raw deal. How sad.

I still don’t give a shit about a thing you just said.

@brgulker:
I disagree completely. I would say Dice and Tay (excluding the playoffs) were significantly better. What does Rip excel at other than scoring?

First, I agree with Big Z, and I disagree that Dyess and especially Tay were “significantly better”. In my opinion, Rip and MFWB were our best players this season, Dyess as well. (however, Rip and MFWB produced a net positive result when on the court, Dyess did not)

Second, “what does Rip excel at other than scoring?” Plenty. Even if he didn’t, what the hell is the job description of a “shooting guard” anyway? Beyond his scoring, Rip is a great defender and a great passer:
- vs. opponent performance in 48 by position
- 4.4 apg makes him 8th best SG passer in the league.

I agree with MP…Rip is an excellant passer. I remember a stretch of like a couple weeks last year where he averaged damn near a double double and had like 14 assist nights, then 9, then 12; really good statlines. That was when they were winning, too.

first off everyone needs to stop bitchin about how rip and ben are like rip and u kno who

Unless they notice the illegal defense rules prior to this century were actually working to help the offense, then I don’t think defense is going away. The refs are crooked and terrible, in that order … if they used hand-check rules sparingly, the league would be in a far better balance for offense and defense. Right now, there seems to be an inefficient league mandate to call tight games, instead of just doing away with zone defense and calling every touch-foul there is to call.

There’s just absolutely nothing appealing about a 140-122 loss. None.

Then we’re agreed: Rip Hamilton has nice cheekbones.

Every time I think of hand checking, I think of Derek Harper. I remember an interview back when the league stopped allowing it and I think it was Joe Dumars who said Derek Harper was the KING. He could stop an offensive player dead in his tracks just by putting his hand in the right spot in a guy’s lower back or hip, and apparently it was a huge pain in the ass for everyone.

/random anecdote’d

I am sure most would disagree with me but I really feel like Bynum is a consistant jumpshot away from being a great player. I think we are lucky to have him and totally see a diamond in the rough. And if there is one thing that can improve in this league through hard work its your shot. Alot of other game intangibles cannot be taught. Some of the greatest players in the last couple decades have come into the league without a jumper and really busted their ass to improve it. Look at Lebron most recently. Every year his jumpshot has improved. It was WORTHLESS when he first got into the NBA. WB’s size will keep him from being a dominant player but with a jumpshot hes got a shot at being a star. I really believe that and am totally drinking the koolaide. I really hope we keep him and he keeps improving. Then again maybe hes reached his ceiling and is one of those players who really never learn to shoot. But from what I have seen I really hope that hes around a long time and I don’t see why anybody on this board would be down on him.

@MP

you’re right…I disagree. Bynum actually has a decent jump shot…better than stuckey at least. I think he is an energy guy that would not translate very well into a 36 mpg player. He is a great role player, and i would love to see him get 20 minutes a night this year, but not much more than that.

@ EZ MIKE P

You seem to love MFWB as much as Mike Payne does. Alter ego?

@cody:
if you refer to EZ MIKE P as “MP”, that means he and I shall fight with knifes. And I will gladly do so. I’ve been repping MFWB since “EZ” was writing his name in all caps. Word! buffalo stance

btw, mp = drunk, surly.

Apparently LenDale White has been less drunk and surly lately… and has slimmed down about 30 pounds or so. Perhaps Mr Big Shot had a chat with his cousin about how being fat makes you less proficient at athletic-related activities.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090805/COLUMNIST0202/908050398/Column++LenDale+White+credits+weight+loss+to+drinking+less+alcohol

“…with a jumpshot hes got a shot at being a star…”

I’d switch that to:

“With a jumpshot hes got a shot at being Nate Robinson.”

I don’t mean that as an insult either, just that players under 6’ tall, whose strength is scoring (unless they get hyped like AI) usually aren’t stars. Still, Bynum’s a bargain at his current price, and with an improved jumper (even if he could just hit around 33-35% on threes) he’d be a very, very potent offensive player.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3nxwv_bill-laimbeer-the-bad-boy_sport

a lil something to ease allovda tension around here.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5ivbp_nba-pistons-103-celtics-97-f-recaps_sport

the last time I held my head high while speaking of the pistons

I thought one of Bynum’s strengths was being a pesky perimeter defender?

Shocker

someone besides just me finally steps up and calls a spade a spade. Br you are a douche. You don’t think in realistic terms (oh well if I were making 33 million I’d do whatever you wanted me to do).

If you’re making 55k at your nubs job and the 2nd shift guy comes in and is instantly everyones favorite and they can’t wait to dump your tiredass, you’d feel resentful too.

This isn’t about singing bible study songs with a professional athlete.

I’m more interested in what Q-star thinks about Rip than idle speculators…and the Q-star thought it was more important to go to Rip’s wedding than see his summer league team get off to a start.

Rip has a role on the team and Q-star is doing everything he can, from day one, to make him happy.

I would have to disagree on the Nate Robinson thing. His offensive game is already more dangerous than Nate’s. Hes just to fast to stay in front of. You can’t say that about Nate Robinson. And NR is in a different position for playing time and exposure. I think hes overated honestly. If it wasn’t for the fact hes short and athletic in NY we wouldn’t talk about him except he won some dunk contests that he didn’t even deserve. Made a mockery of the already joke of a dunk contest in both wins. And I am new to the board as far as reading everyones comments so if Mike Payne has been giving big ups to WB for a long time then I didn’t see it so kudos to that. And when I say star I don’t mean Lebron, Kobe etc. But a guy the whole league knows about and wants to watch. Brings attention to the Pistons like are other good players do to the average fan who doesn’t semi-obsess like we do on this board.

@ MP:

Second, "what does Rip excel at other than scoring?" Plenty. Even if he didn’t, what the hell is the job description of a "shooting guard" anyway? Beyond his scoring, Rip is a great defender and a great passer:
- vs. opponent performance in 48 by position
- 4.4 apg makes him 8th best SG passer in the league.

I could quote stats to make my case, but it’s not worth the hassle. Rip has been our leading scorer, so it’s natural to conclude that he’s our best player.

If you look beyond scoring totals, you might see something else. If you’re interested in the stats, I’ll share them, but last time I did … well, it just ain’t worth the trouble.

@brgulker:
Rip has been our leading scorer, so it’s natural to conclude that he’s our best player.

I totally disagree, and think the regulars here would too. I think a casual fan might equate the “top scorer” thing with “best player”, but we’re all way too smart for that here. If that were so, we wouldn’t have loved Big Ben the way we did when he was here.

If you look beyond scoring totals, you might see something else.

That’s exactly what I did. Exactly. I didn’t say anything about scoring, I showed what Rip brings to the table BEYOND scoring. Namely, a top 10 passer for his position (which is “great”, not “above average”) and a great defender (again, not just “above average”).

If you’re interested in the stats, I’ll share them, but last time I did … well, it just ain’t worth the trouble.

I honestly don’t know why people dog you for this. I love your comments, I love your stat analysis and don’t think any of the whiners should discourage you from posting stat-related points of discussion.

I do not understand why people get all worked up about the statistical analysis of sports. Sure, there are people like QuickDarshan who states that basketball stats don’t represent the whole of a players performance— and he’s totally right. Defense is impossible to quantify accurately, although some stats do help show a bit of the picture— like opponent performance, stls/blks.

But then there are others who illogically hate stats. It’s dumb, ignorant, silly. Then again, so is relying on stats entirely to make an analysis. Amongst the stat lovers here, I don’t think any of us are foolish enough to suggest stats alone can 100% represent a player’s value. I know you know this too, brgulker. I dig your stat comments, and I want to see more of them. I don’t think, however, people above are complaining about your stat posts here— just the way you went after Shinons, which was a bit douchey (no disrespect).

I don’t mind when people post stats, either. I’m definitely not a stats guy, but thanks to you guys I’ve become more of one. And if I don’t want to read a bunch of numbers, I’ll just keep scrolling down. Ain’t no thang.

Are you kidding me? Q-Star went to the wedding for the free booze and hot bitches. He knows he’s big dog and knew he’d get some sweet poonanny at the wedding.

@James B.:
Q-Star went to the wedding for the free booze and hot bitches.

I too like free booze, bitches.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Lewis_Suspended-321190-2348.html

rashad lewis banned for 10 games due to use of banned drug
that means we’ll play an orlando team without lewis twice in the opening weeks if i remember our shedule correctly

Richard Hamilton was the best player on the team last year.

br,

you didn’t use stats to come up with McDyess or Tay, you used who you saw had big games or were the most consistent on nights where you personally watched the game. How do I know that? Because I once thought McDyess was the best Piston last year, and I was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay fckin wrong.

I dont believe Rip is great at defending his position, I think he’s perhaps top 15. The stats don’t show his true defensive presence, but then again they don’t show Tay’s either.

Rip has been the most consistent player on the team for several years. He signed a going rate contract for a shooting guard who does what he does for the team.

RE: Stats. I love numbers but my pet peeve is the improper use of stats to prove a point which I think TV broadcasts do all the time. “He scoring average went up from 20.7 to 21.3” Umm, ever heard of standard deviation?

I think the posters on here are more intelligent about stats. Especially since they tend to use “per possession.”

The stats I trust the most are team stats (per possession). I think that “Points Per 100 Possessions” is the best tool for evaluating team defense and offense.

As for individual stats, I like “rebounding percentage” too, but even that has limitations.

“Richard Hamilton was the best player on the team last year.”

/Boney’d??

yeah I said it

Stats can definitely lie. All absolutes are junk. Except for one, and that is, Allen Iverson absolutely fucking sucks.

On that note, what exactly is the big picture of this new Pistons style, other than bending over and taking it in the can, repeatedly?

There’s gonna be a lot of daggers, only, now, it seems like Detroit’s the one that’s going to be the victim of a lot more of them.

Oh, and John Hughes died. That suburb of Illinois he repeatedly used goes right with him. Rock on forever, Hughes, Breakfast Club and Bueller fucking rule.

C-Ch-Ch-Changes!

Apparently, DaJuan Summers is in a CV31/Bosh-like twitter race with a friend and porn star.

I think I may to need to make some revisions to my “The Wrong DaJuan” screenplay. Bow-Chica-Bow-Bow.

Its easy to look at this teams lineup and make an assumption that were gonna suck on defense , but until I see them play at least til the half way point i’m gonna reserve my judgement this team is head and shoulders above what we had last yr. especially the coach and I’ve seen too many guys who supposedly couldn’t play defense all of a sudden become a defensive force with the right team defensive scheme.As for the log jam at shooting guard I don’t think Rip’s gonna be with us past the trade deadline, I just hope JOD gets a front court player with close to equal value and that He can send RIP somewhere he want to be ,he’s busted his ass for us and deserves that much ,but in all honesty getting both those objectives in a Rip trade may not be possible.

With so many new faces, the defense will most definitely suck at the beginning of the season. And DBB will be a horrible place to be for a while.

I just want to see significant improvement from the beginning of the season to the end. And, of course, I want to see effort.

Co-sign, QD. I want to see effort, and some sort of semblance of professional basketball.

I’m trying to get Detroit Metro renamed “The Will Bynum Airport”

But I’ll take “Will Bynum Metro”

Can’t wait to use the Mother F#$%in’ People Mover

lol @ “The Will Bynum Airport”

As inspired by MFSkylar, we need a “rename various detroit area landmarks as if they were sponsored by Pistons players” thread.

(OT: i’m driving to the D now actually, 7.5 hours…)

The Joe D. Louis Arena?

JOD is constructing a team to rival the Bad Boys. The interior is not there yet (and he knows it). BG is not a starter. Rip’s defense, as a two, is top 5 in the entire NBA. He will more than likely remain a Piston throughout this contract.

We do not need a “true Point Guard” JOD has stated numerous times, his preference is to have two combo guards on the floor. Stuckey, Rip, MFWB are all combo guards. BG is a “true” shooting guard.

I don’t think BG has been involved in a system where defense was pressed on him, all he was needed for in Chicago was to score, when you have a team (Chicago) that has NO low post scoring threat, there must be a dude who doesn’t miss, that was BG. Chicago’s defensive plan the last couple years appears to have been something like just-force-them-to-drive-the-lane-we-got-guys-who-will-contest-then-get-the-rebound.

Rip, Tay, Stuckey and MFWB are above average perimeter defenders, if CV and Kwame can provide even average help defense, we are going to score more than we give up to most teams. As constructed now, the 2009-2010 Pisons should easily win 42 games (barring significant injuries), anymore than that is iffy.

The rookies are (obviously) the biggest question mark, if each one has an “impact game” (similar to what they showed in the Summer league), we probabaly get another 4 to 6 wins this year.

With an undersized front court, our playoff performance will be as successful as the production the rookies provide, imho.

2 things:

1)

Boney
Aug 6th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

Richard Hamilton was the best player on the team last year.

Holy crap. Boney, the resident and long-time Rip hater saying that says a lot to me. Brgulker, you’ve wandered into a community where we’ve all obsessively watched every Pistons game for years and then come here to discuss it. This brings me to my other point…

2)

I could quote stats to make my case, but it’s not worth the hassle. Rip has been our leading scorer, so it’s natural to conclude that he’s our best player.

I appreciate your incredibly stupid and condescending comment. Stats are not the end all be all. After all, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I think that stats are useful when paired with your own observations. You come in here and quote Dave Berri like his word is gospel and talk all kinds of shit and totally disregard the opinions of people who’ve watched every effing game for the better part of the last 5 seasons. You tell us the stats tell the whole story. It’s bullshit. When we unearthed Rip from the bench and he responded with that string of double-doubles (pts-ast), in my opinion it was the best stretch of basketball he’d played since the 2004 playoffs. I don’t give a shit whatever statistical measure you care to quote says, my eyes and the team’s overall play during that stretch told me that he was lights out.

Chill out with the “you’re all morons and here are the cherry picked stats to prove my point” attitude you’ve got.

@DJ

Rip is a combo guard that is one of the best defenders (at his position) in the league?

Gordon hasn’t been in a system where defense is a priority? A lot of Gordon’s Bulls teams were great defensively, because Scott Skiles emphasized defense.

Stuckey is an above average defender?

42 wins is the floor for this team?

The rookies can be responsible for an additional 4 to 6 wins? They’re barely going to make it off the bench. Detroit’s playoff performance (if they make it) will have very little to do with the rookies. Very few players make an impact their first year, much less a mid-first and two second round picks that all play the same position, from a mediocre draft.

Upon further review, my comment might be unnecessarily hostile. I blame the 90 minute conference call I was on during my day off. The point remains the same, though.

@Other Matt

That was not unnecessarily hostile at all.

@Birdman

You’re right in questioning Rip as a “combo guard,” but he is one of the better defender at his position in the League. You watch the Pistons. This is not a crazy statement. And like Mike Payne so intelligently pointed out, Rip was #8 in assists/game for SG’s last year, so calling him a “combo guard” is not that far off base.

Also, the fact that those Bulls teams with Skiles were top 5 defenses— with Gordon playing 30 mpg— should tell us that no matter what we think his personal defensive deficiencies are, in the right system his mistakes don’t hurt his team as much as some people here might want to claim.

Stuckey defended LeBron better than anybody else in the playoffs last year and has shown spurts of great defensive ability. Clearly he has the physical tools to be a fantastic perimeter defender. Is he there yet? That’s what the season’s for.

For the floor for this team is probably closer to 35 wins. The ceiling probably around 50.

As for the rooks, well that’s all just conjecture at this point. I for one think Daye is potentially unstoppable against most second-unit 3’s and 4’s, so he has game-changing potential. Summers? I dunno. Ditto with the Swede.

I think it’s more accurate to say that our bench, as a unit, will probably account for an additional 4-6 wins if they play well, not necessarily the rooks.

MF Mike Peezy: I went to Oregon, I would’ve relished a snobby beer or 7 with you.

Cobo Hall gets renamed Kwame Brown Hall, in honor of the other Kwame, who ain’t get a damn thing done on the renovation tip.

97.1 Just reported we just signed Ben Wallace to a one year deal!

If I could wish for 1 thing, just one….

I wish Petey and davidstern would come back and tell us all how it feels to be a fanboi of a guy who can’t even sniff a job in the NBA?

The Heat say they’re interested in AI, but he won’t start over Chalmers. The Grizzlies want him, but everyone knows that’s strictly for the sideshow act as he’s not going to start over OJ Mayo and he sure as hell won’t start at PG. The Clippers only are interested because of ticket sales…

how does that make the fanbois feel now, now that they’re fucking lameass hero has become nothing more than a circus act that travels from town to town looking for a job that isn’t there for a guy of “his skillset”.

Enjoy Greece you headband wearing douchebag. Good riddance.

97.1 Just reported we just signed Ben Wallace to a one year deal!

Link

Oddly enough, this honestly makes me feel better about our chances at being competitive this year.

braking NEWS- big ben back on TEAM and also back in entire CITY of detroit.

From Virginia Union University….

@coachDP

Yes, but what’s your epinion?

@Boney

I wonder why Jod didn’t give McDyess an $8 million dollar contract this year.

@Joel
Those Bulls teams had guys who protected the rim, whether it was Big Ben, Thomas, Noah. Honestly, I think that is the key to a good defense (along with the necessary mentality, of course). Regardless of Stuckey, Gordon, or Villa’s individual shortcomings as defenders, if we have a guy who will protect the rim they will all look better.

For the floor for this team is probably closer to 35 wins. The ceiling probably around 50.
I agree with this. I was holding off a w/l prediction until we made this last move and I’m going to predict 44 wins now that we’ve signed Ben.

@Boney
I wish Petey and davidstern would come back and tell us all how it feels to be a fanboi of a guy who can’t even sniff a job in the NBA?
+1,000,000

The basketball gods sure have been great to AI haven’t they?

Birdman wins.

ESPN reporting LeBron will not sign an extension with Cleveland and will explore Free Agency in 2010. I’m delightfully wrong in saying that I thought he’d extend with Cleveland.

Other Matt,

Please tell me there’s a fucking link on that… I had to pick myself off the floor I was laughing so hard

Boney,

It’s coming up on Sportscenter on the half hour.

I checked ESPN and can’t find it. In other news, I’m very pleased with having Big Ben back. I think his knowledge/experience/work ethic/leadership/stereotypical veteran crap/etc. will be worth a couple wins by themselves. Plus maybe he can teach Kwame and Wilcox how to block shots and not be pussies.

Eh…Can’t get excited about Ben’s return. We don’t have the same core surronding him to make him look good. The dude is done.

wow@ going from a franchise player to backing up Kwame Brown

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=8278082

I assume this is the quote they’re referring to:
“I signed a contract in 2006 with an option,” he said. “It would make no sense for me to sign that contract if I didn’t keep my options open. I’ll let you fill in the blanks.”

Classy guy, that Lebron.

Yeah, the AP article (and the subsequent blurb on Sportscenter) is a little less breathless than the first ESPN report. Still, I would be really unhappy if I were a Cavs fan.

It wouldn’t shock me to see Ben start some games this year. If Arnie can keep him healthy, it’s not like Kwame and Wilcox are known for their consistency.

hey I knew that negative nancy (prophecy) was lying in the weeds somewhere…

welcome back. Take some haterade… brgulker just made it

Why do I get the sense that LeBron’s decision is a surprise to some folks? Isn’t this what Cavs fans (and everyone else) were expecting all along? The Cavs should still be considered the heavy favorites to keep him.

Kobe and Duncan both opted out of their contracts at one point, too. LeBron is a historic player along the lines of those 2 guys. Unless things drastically fall apart in Cleveland this year, he’s staying. Going to the Nets or Knicks would be a huge step backwards, competitively.

SHAMELESS PLUG:

A film I wrote is opening in Detroit this weekend (www.oceanofpearls.com). You don’t have to go see it. Just buy a ticket and then go see GI Joe or something else instead. That’s what I’m going to do.

I think the Brooklyn Nets would be a good option for LeBron. There’s the cache of being the centerpiece of the move. Plus, they got young, cheap talent (Devin Harris, Courtney Lee and Brook Lopez) so he’ll have a core to grow with him.

the Nets do have a better core than the Cleveland Cavs do… and 1 offseason isn’t going to help Cleveland either…

problem is, will LeBron sign for the max he can get from New Jersey? New Jersey doesn’t have enough beefy salaries to send back in a sign and trade

god damnit could you imagine how EMPTY the Q would be the season after LeBron leaves

I agree with QD. I think Nets would be best.

holy crap. i just got an awesome trade idea. Trade Jason Maxiell to Boston for Rasheed Wallace, Ben Gordon to Denver for some guy named Chauncey Billups, then trade Kwame Brown and Rodney Stuckey for Mehmet Okur! omg we could be a championship team!!

big ben is back!!!

I just don’t see how “a young core to grow with” is more attractive than the contender he’s on right now. Lopez and Harris are nice building blocks, but are they collectively better than the depth that Ferry has built around LeBron? And once LeBron signs with a big market team, they probably can’t afford to make any more impactful moves.

I get the impression that LeBron has a sense of legacy and loyalty that will make him comfortable staying in Cleveland. He will make everyone nervous when he takes a road trip to New York and New Jersey early next July, but he will be perfectly content when he returns to Ohio and Danny Ferry throws that Max contract at him.

I’m not concerned with Wallace getting too many minutes. I just want him to kick some ass in practice. Too bad he wasn’t around last year to beat up on A.I.

@ Jamison- Big Z and Shaq both are really old and their contracts expire after this season. Varejo or w.e. is not a starting caliber PF. After this year, they would have no Center and a bench PF starting. You can’t win without a frontcourt. Although Shaq and Z would free up a lot of cap space lol

lmao @ Roll the Dyess…picture that:

“Stop it Ben! It’s just practice! We talkin’ ’bout practice, man!”

lol

@Boney:

I’m not sure I agree with the “better core” comment. Harris and Lopez are solid building blocks, but there is a huge dropoff after that. Cleveland probably has 4-5 guys that are better than Jersey’s 3rd best player.

I just don’t think it’s realistic to think he’ll join a rebuilding team with so little depth. And really, most teams with cap space are in that situation.

I have a question about Cleveland. They have something on the order of $46 million coming off the books next off-season (LeBron, Shaq, Z). Assuming they re-up LeBron for the max (something like $18 million to start), how much money will they have under the cap? The estimates say the cap will be at $51, that gives them $3 million to spend. Is there any way they can get a second premier piece to go with LeBron by obliterating the cap like they have with this team?

Couple things:

First, along with what seems like a majority of people, IMO it’s a good thing we signed Ben. At the very least it means Kwame won’t be getting 30-35 mpg, and Ben was actually pretty good last year, so maybe with some Arnie Kander magic he can stay serviceable for another year or two. Plus the theoretical/potential/hopeful benefit of having him tutor the young guys on how to play defense like your life depends on it.

Second, IMO a common misconception about Gordon is that he’s a bad defender. His defensive numbers have pretty much always been decent (and he’s been a key player on several terrific defensive teams), the holes in his game are all in relation to possessions- both regarding their creation and usage.

Basically, he is below average in rebounds and steals, and is relatively turnover prone. So while he has been a very good scorer, his overrall value has stayed rougly average because of the possession-related holes in his game. Hopefully this is something he can improve on.

Third, why all the hate towards brgulker? Disagreeing passionately is part of what real basketball fandom is all about, so if someone’s tone comes off poorly, then IMO it seems like it’s coming from a genuine passion for the team. Agreeing to disagree seems like a better solution than calling someone stupid or a d-bag when an argument occurs.

@ Other Matt: I’ve always been leery of the suggestion (which you seem to be making) that people who use stats aren’t “watching the games.” Personally, I’m a huge “stats guy” but I watch every single game just like everyone else.

@ Cody:

Yeah, Shaq and Z will need to be replaced next summer. My point is that I think the scales are tipped more heavily in the Cavs favor than people are letting on. The Cavs are the most realistic final destination for him.

It’s obviously not a sure thing, but I expect him to stay.

For some gallows humor today, check Keith Langlois’s newest post:

“Rip Hamilton is certain to log minutes at small forward this season in addition to shooting guard. Kuester has said the Pistons will play small at times, meaning Tayshaun Prince will spend time at power forward to exploit mismatches. Dumars has said he’d like to see Rodney Stuckey play off of the ball some – not because he doesn’t see him as the team’s point guard, the way his comments were misinterpreted, but to allow his natural aggression to be fully utilized. Stuckey could even be used some at small forward in the right matchups.”

N.B.: Stuckey is 6’5", generously. Langlois goes on to suggest that Deron Washington, the thin, 6’7" guard, “can even match up against some power forwards.”

Keith appears to be serious in writing these things, but the joke’s on all of us.

“Lopez and Harris are nice building blocks, but are they collectively better than the depth that Ferry has built around LeBron?”

Yes, by far. I take Lopez, Harris and Lee over Ilgauskas/Shaq, Mo Williams and Delonte West anyday. Plus, since two of them have rookie contracts you have tons of salary flexibility. Also, they have Terence Williams and Chris Douglas Roberts.

I don’t think it’s even a question that the Nets are a better option in terms of competing.

Who else does Cleveland have? Varejao is pretty good. But, Jamario Moon? Tits Gibson? Anthony Parker? You can get guys just as good for minimum contracts. Once you have LeBron, it’ll be easy to get players to come on the cheap.

“I just don’t think it’s realistic to think he’ll join a rebuilding team with so little depth.”

Once you have LeBron, you are no longer a rebuilding team.

“god damnit could you imagine how EMPTY the Q would be the season after LeBron leaves?”

I just went from six to midnight.

Ben Wallace is back

@ Cody,

I’m not suggesting that all people who use stats aren’t “using their eyes”. What I am suggesting is that anybody who watched most of last season and has Tayshaun ahead of Rip on the list of Best Pistons Players Of 08-09 because of some stat was not actually watching the games.

I’ve never found brgulker’s posts to be douchey or condescending. The only negative thing I’ve heard about brgulker was written by Rob G:

“brgulker is a knave”

/Knights of Kwame

*Only negative thing I agree with.

Also, I’m so glad Ben is back! Stuckey really ought to give Ben his number 3 back. 2 reasons.

1. Ben is one of the top ten Pistons of all time.
2. Stuckey took #3 in homage to Dwyane Wade. In Detroit? Are you kidding?

Stuckey needs a fresh start, and a new number can’t hurt.

Bill Higgins:

Holy. Shit.

Keith Langlois is the worst. By his logic, “depending on the matchups,” anyone can play any position.

Hey, with the right “matchups” Bynum can play PF, Kwame can play SG, Rip is a combo guard/center, and Stuck is a combo guard/forward/center. We have the most versatile team ever!!1

Back in reality, if Stuckey gets minutes at SF this season… ummm… let’s just hope that doesn’t actually happen.

@QD:

Comparing Lopez to Shaq/Z, I agree Lopez is a difference maker, especially going into 2010-11. But I think the backcourts are kind of a wash. Beyond that, I would be more comfortable with the rest of the Cavs roster. The young guys that you mentioned (even Lee) aren’t likely to factor in as selling points when he’s out looking.

When you add in the fact that the Nets may never even move to Brooklyn, I just don’t see the appeal.

hahahah yea i was scratching kmy head when he said stuckey at SF… what an idiot… can’t take that guy seriously