Why do we keep saying Joe Dumars is a bad GM
by JC no1 pistons fan on Jan 15, 2010 8:24 PM EST
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PrintSeveral things I heard from people:
1. He should of draft Melo/Wade/Bosh instead of Darko Milicic
2. He should of kept Chauncey Billups
3. He should of trade Rasheed a while ago
4. He shouldn't extend Rip's contract
Well, from my point of view
1. Look at these following mock drafts, imagine you're the GM with the No. 2 pick without knowing the future, who would you pick?
http://quicktime.cnnsi.com/basketball/nba/2003/draft/news/2003/05/22/mock_draft/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/draft/news/2003/06/23/hollinger_mock/
http://www.jazzhoops.net/archive/nbadraft2003.htm
2. Chauncey was ready to a PG since he played in MIN with KG. Joe D noticed it, and signed him as a FA. If Chauncey was traded later on the 2002-2003 season for Allen Iverson (say the Sixers magically agrees to the trade and Detroit can string enough players to match the salary), would you be happy or unhappy? Allen back in the time was known as the ANSWER, the soldier on the court, pound for pound the best scorer in the history, etc. Chauncey was doing the same thing he did 6 seasons ago, he just kept doing the same thing until people realized that he's a great PG. If they were traded for each other back in 2002-2003 season, would you feel good about it? Don't tell me AI lost a step. No he did not, that was your excuse for Detroit not able to fit AI into our system, or the other way around. Yes, we get the short end of the stick, but wouldn't you be upset? We keep losing at the ECF (the higher you're, the harder you fall, which means you hurt more), wouldn't you desperately wanna make a move and get us over the hump?
3. From my memory, I think I remember a blog saying Rasheed will traded to NY at the end of 2006-2007 for Eddy Curry and David Lee, and I remember everyone saying we should trade Sheed' for anyone at the end of the 2007-2008 (when the Celtics beat us and he was burned by KG). I'm probably biased about this, but I think Rasheed is great piece of the puzzle for a championship team, which we still are at the end of 2007-2008 until we fell apart.
4. Rip Hamilton is one of the best if not the best conditioned player in the NBA. His non-stop movement on the court makes people don't want to guard him when he runs of the screen. Right now, I think he's the 7th best scorer in the Piston basketball history. Once he recovers from his injury, he'll shoot at a better %.
But one thing I do hope though, is we trade Tayshaun for someone.
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5. He paid $90,000,000 for Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva
better than $111,000,000 for Arenas though.
6. Taking Dajuan Summers instead of Dejuan Blair.
I think lot of DBBers have moved on from 1, 2, and 3 for the most part.
The list is somewhat out of date.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Why do we keep saying Joe Dumars is a bad GM
Because Joe Dumars was a good GM, but has not made good decisions since the championship season. Now, he’s average— if you’re an optimist. The list of Joe’s failures is actually pretty staggering. Not sure if I have time to list them all, so let’s just focus on the last two years.
1) He made a draft day trade of DJ White for Walter Sharpe in the 2008 NBA draft. Mario Chalmers, DeAndre Jordan, Luc Mbah a Moute and CDR were still on the board. I don’t know about you guys, but we could really use DeAndre Jordan right about now… In the last three games, Jordan has averaged 13 points on 80% shooting, 8 rebounds and 2 blocks. How is Walter Sharpe doing?
2) He hired Michael F-ing Curry as head coach. Do I need to go into the colossal fuckup that move was?
3) He traded Chauncey Billups for Allen Iverson
So we got some cap room. But had he NOT traded for Allen Iverson, we still would have had Rip’s $11M expiring and Rasheed’s $14M expiring— enough to make a healthy push in free agency. So instead…
4) He extended Rip Hamilton for $11M/yr. for three years, then he
5) Spends another $11M/yr. on Ben Gordon. The biggest problem with this is that Rip Hamilton’s contract is nearly untradeable.
6) Then he drafts 4 small forward in the 2009 NBA draft. He drafted Austin Daye over Ty Lawson, DaJuan Summers over DeJuan Blair, and traded the Chase Budinger pick to Houston.
7) He didn’t take a trade offer of Rajon Rondo and Ray Allen ($21M expiring) for Rodney Stuckey, Richard Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince.
Had he done all of this properly, our squad could look like this today— and our record would be entirely different:
rajon rondo – will bynum – ty lawson
ray allen – ben gordon – arron afflalo
jonas jerebko – chase budinger
charlie villanueva – dejuan blair – hakim warrick
ben wallace – dejuan blair – deandre jordan — kwame brown
And this summer, we’d have > $25M coming off the books— and less committed than we have now.
rajon rondo – ty lawson
ben gordon – arron afflalo
jonas jerebko – chase budinger
charlie villanueva – hakim warrick
dejuan blair – deandre jordan – ben wallace
Just imagine a backcourt of Rajon Rondo and Ben Gordon— did you see the 7 game series between Boston and Chicago last year? Next, imagine that we have Ty Lawson and Arron Afflalo behind them. Unreal.
That roster isn’t a championship roster, but it is MUCH better than our current roster— and we’d have a TON of cap room to play with this season in free agency.
As I’ve said before, this isn’t hopeful hindsight. Many of us on this very site were calling for each one of these moves, one after another— from Deandre Jordan to the Rondo/Allen trade that was on our table. So in short, yeah, Joe Dumars has not been a good GM in the last two years. If he isn’t able to turn things around by the trade deadline, it is absolutely 100% fair to call Joe Dumars a “bad GM”.
by Mike Payne on Jan 16, 2010 5:48 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Generally a fan of JD...
But this was very well done, sir.
I can’t call myself a JD supporter without somewhat of a rebuttal, though. Just remember that at one time he put the Pistons in a position that some GMs never achieve once, let alone 7 years in a row (including a championship), and any other teams’ fans would kill for half that. That’s the big picture perspective.
I fault his complacency (and undying, close-minded loyalty to Stuckey) most for what’s happened the past couple years and thus, I think it’s fair to call him bad the past couple years, but tabbing him as a ‘bad GM’ and just leaving it at that is lumping him in with all the GMs who I think we can all agree on that we would never want to run the Pistons and forgetting the great years we have had as a result of his crafty (sometimes head scratching) GM’ing. If you’re calling him ‘bad’ for just the past two years, then disregard these middle two paragraphs.
Regardless, rec’d.
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My editor has been fired
I fault his complacency (and undying, close-minded loyalty to Stuckey) most for what’s happened the past couple years and thus, I think it’s fair to call him bad the past couple years, but tabbing him as a ‘bad GM’ and just leaving it at that is lumping him in with all the GMs who I think we can all agree on that we would never want to run the Pistons and forgetting the great years we have had as a result of his crafty (sometimes head scratching) GM’ing.
Sorry for the run-on, but I think it’s comprehensible if you pause to take a breath every now and then.
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thanks for the rec Packey
Yeah, I’m absolutely only calling Jod “bad” for the past two years. Prior to that, he’s a clear hall of famer as a GM. No one puts together a string of 6 conference finals, a championship and a game 7 finals team with ZERO SUPERSTARS— that is a once-in-a-generation event. For that, I laud Joe Dumars as one of the best GMs of all time.
As you noted, I’m only calling him bad for the past two years (although I could make the case that things went downhill shortly after the championship season). Sadly, due to the economics of the sport, this has to be about “what have you done for me lately”. In the words of Andre 3000, you’re only as funky as your last cut— and Joe hasn’t had a hit since 2005.
Memory is failing
Wasn’t the Rondo deal before the CV + BG signings?
IIRC, it was. And if it was, wouldn’t that have impacted our ability to sign BG and CV?
The only reason I ask is because the potential lineup you demo’d there is a beast, one that I’d love to have; however, I’m not sure we’d have had enough money to go get 3 FAs after that deal ( CV BG Warrick).
Rec’d for awesomeness, though.
the trade wouldn't have effected our cap space
Rip, Tay and Stuck were not expiring, so we would have taken on as much salary as we were sending. Our cap space that went to CV/BG came from Sheed and AI’s salaries.
MFMP
Isn’t #7 DQ’ed because it was more like a trade rumor and less like a legit offer?
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
the reports
suggested that an offer was made by the Celtics organization, but a lower-level Pistons exec declined the offer and Joe didn’t move any further on it.
The gripes about paying Rip are a bit irksome if you actually stop thinking about numbers for a minute and think about the human element. Rip had paid his dues and won a championship for us. Maybe Dumars knew he was paying him a bit too much at the time, but maybe he said, “Who cares? He DESERVES it!” This is all conjecture at this point, but numbers don’t just tell the whole story. Maybe he was just doing the right thing for a guy he felt deserved to be treated well.
You have a point.
There’s another aspect to being the General Manager of a pro sports franchise..
-Dumars is the ambassador of Detroit. There’s no more Bill Davidson. It’s Dumars and Bill’s daughter, and so far we don’t really know a whole lot about her.
Dumars has the league-wide perception of his team to consider, as well as the league’s perception of how he deals with his roster and future acquisitions.
You fail to keep the face of the franchise (Ben Wallace) and lose him to a division rival.
You trade maybe the next biggest face of the franchise away for perhaps the most selfish guy in the league… You will most likely lose McDyess in Free Agency and you’re already planning not to keep Roscoe here.
Maybe he felt he had no choice and had to reward Rip for that title, and pay him well.. to counteract some of those huge personnel losses sustained in such an incredibly small amount of time.
You cannot attract talent unless you do right by your current players.
Anything less, and you will be typed as a Manager who alienates his squad and doesn’t pay what you think you’re worth.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
by Skylar on Jan 16, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I absolutely agree, Rip earned that extension, although it was a bit above his market value. I wouldn’t have any qualms with Joe offering that extension—- but the moment he signed Ben Gordon to an equivalent contract, it made one-or-the-other a bad, bad move.
In short, Rip’s extension was not a bad move until he gave Gordon an equivalent contract.
But, it can be remedied.
If Rip is moved by next season, then the Gordon contract is a good one. Gordon is a younger, superior player who can grow with the next group of players (he’s only 26).
I agree that until Rip is moved, I will not like the Gordon signing, but since I believe Rip can still be moved (there’s interest from Cleveland right now, as they’re looking at Hamilton along with Jamison) so I’m just trying to be patient.
See, I operate under a wait-and-see method, where I give Dumars leeway for the next couple of seasons. I’ll criticize a move, but I won’t condemn Dumars and call for his head until I see where we’re at in 2012/2013. The guy sent us to 8 straight playoff appearances, 6 straight ECF, 2 NBA Finals, and a championship.
Also, doing right by players, keep in mind Rip is represented by the same guy who represents LeBron. A lot of this type of stuff is connected, and can spread around. Dumars is very much know as a GM who does right by players. He’s built a high reputation in that aspect, as I’ve never seen the guy lowball someone save Ben Wallace, which was pretty much to save face (since he knew he was leaving).
Also, I’m still on the fence about the Daye pick. Honestly, Daye is extremely talented. Like, top 5 level talented, but I worry about his deposition and, of course, his body. If he works on those two, he’ll be much better than Lawson. Of course, I was against the pick and don’t believe he’ll fix those things, but he could prove me wrong. He’s shown serious flashes.
The Summers/Blair debate is incredibly one-sided right now. Summers isn’t seeing the court, and Blair has for the most part been great. I was a huge Summers fan but I cannot deny Blair’s immediate impact. The only thing that would justify it now is if Summers becomes a solid rotation player down the road and Blair is out of the league, and I certainly don’t want to wish that on Blair.
Budinger, I don’t get. He’s terribly inefficient for a “shooter” and was a poor defender out of Arizona. The Blair anger is legit, but this always felt like a stretch. He’d likely be at the end of the bench like Summers because Daye and Jerebko look better than him.
As for Dumars being a bad GM, some of what MP has said is true, but some of it also hasn’t played itself out yet. What will be the long term effects of Gordon and Villanueva? Don’t know yet. Could Daye really become a good player? We don’t know yet.
Also, I think if you hit MP’s lineup with the injuries we’ve faced, I don’t think we’re any better off this season. This is one thing that keeps getting lost in the shuffle: we have been the walking wounded. It’s hard to establish any sort of identity with players shuffling in and out of the lineup due to injury.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 16, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Budinger vs. Gordon
Budinger, I don’t get. He’s terribly inefficient for a "shooter" and was a poor defender out of Arizona
Interesting argument from you, TJL. The same exact criticism that you are levying against Budinger are the two that some of his have been levying against Ben Gordon.
Compare BG’s rookie season with Budinger’s: http://goo.gl/kAVg Nearly identical shooting percentages. The main difference being Gordon got moe PT and more shots.
As for defense —
Ben Gordon this season is better, but not by a lot, than his opposition: http://www.82games.com/0910/09DET3.HTM
Budiner (at SG) is just slightly worse than his opposition.
People liked Budinger for the same reasons that you like Ben Gordon, it seems to me.
but it can be remedied
So that gives dude a pass on being a bad GM? You’re a lot more patient than I, and I sincerely hope Karen Davidson shares your patience.
I believe Rip can still be moved (there’s interest from Cleveland right now, as they’re looking at Hamilton along with Jamison)
Uh, link please? I’ve never heard that once.
He's only a bad GM if he fails to remedy it.
Bad GMs stick by their mistakes for far too long. A good GM can take a mistake, and either fix it or turn it into a net positive. Dumars has routinely does this throughout his tenure as Piston GM. I’d go as far saying it’s his biggest strength: to take a bad situation and turn it into something good for us, even if he himself created it.
As for patience, less than two full seasons ago we won 59 games and lost to the eventual NBA champions in the playoffs. We are not far enough removed from that point, in-spite of Dumars’ decisions, to make me lose my patience. Now once that number his 5-6 years, then I’m going to start to call for changes. But when you go through a decade like we did, a downturn is expected, so I’ll wait and see how things play out.
Uh, link please? I’ve never heard that once.
The Cavs beat writer Brian Windhorst was on the radio this morning and he said the Cavs will be calling Detroit about Hamilton. I don’t know where I’d go to get a radio recording.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 17, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Now once that number his 5-6 years, then I’m going to start to call for changes.
Are you serious? You are literally saying that we should wait until after Ben Gordon and CV’s current contracts expire before coming to any conclusions over Jod’s moves (!). That’s kinda crazy.
5-6 years removed from that 59 win season.
Which was 2007-2008.
Meaning if we still suck in 2012-2013, I want changes.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 17, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
So I'm giving him
2009-2010
2010-2011
2011-2012
To turn the ship around. After that, it’s done.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 17, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
ahh
Copy. That timeline makes more sense.
Personally, I’m less inclined to give Jod the benefit of the doubt largely because MP’s list has a bunch of stuff that I grumbled about at the time and seemed to be obviously terrible moves even as they were happening— hiring Curry, the Sharpe pick, passing on Right DeJuan, Rip’s extension, all these moves looked like stinkers right from the beginning, which IMO makes them less excusable.
Patience
Woody Paige wrote on his chalk board one ATH show, “Patience isn’t a virtue, it’s a waste of time,” and I think that’s probably the line of thinking MFMP is following here.
Man, I love that quote in a lot of contexts, but probably not when dealing with Joey D. I’m on TPL’s side with this, but I would probably consider this Year 2 in the grand scheme and give him until after next season, not 2011-2012. To me, three full years of rebuilding is a lot for a guy who has been here for 10 years and has had time to make moves here and there to prepare for this. And maybe I feel that way because it only took him 2 years to turn around the team he inherited.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
"Patience isn’t a virtue, it’s a waste of time," and I think that’s probably the line of thinking MFMP is following here.
Not necessarily. See, Joe built a squad that he didn’t have to change much for several years, and he deserved that— he built an indomitable squad. But almost overnight, he started making very, very bad decisions that didn’t reflect what a smart GM would do. It’s not about patience, so much, its not about giving time to allow his plan to fall into place, its that he’s made inexcusable decisions that will NOT get better in time. That doesn’t describe all of Joe’s decisions in the last two years, just some very crucial ones that anyone, even the community here at DBB, could have predicted while wearing a blindfold.
I shouldn't have assumed how you're thinking here..
My bad. I think you’re absolutely right about these past couple years.
My thinking is that some people are rewarding JD for his all-time great first 8 years by giving him a little bit of a longer leash with the thought in mind that he can do the same thing again, despite some wrong moves (and he made wrong moves in the first 8 years, too, but not nearly as many or predictable).
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
by Packey on Jan 17, 2010 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's funny
I can’t imagine anyone else running this team.
I don’t know what that means, but it’s how I feel.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
And did anyone read the scouting report on Darko in that last link?
I don’t think I’ve laughed and cried so hard at the same time:
–The Pistons and Carmelo broke off their workout. The Pistons are betting on Darko becoming the next Euro star – possibly with more moves then Dirk.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Where's the anti-rec prompt
My sunday is ruined
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Not Me
@MP..I love you man, but you’re reacting too much like a fan, and not enough like a sportswriter. Let me answer your and JC’s concerns here.
1) The Milicik pick. This was discussed a few days ago. Basically, great skills, but zero heart and even worse maturity. I saw his interview about wanting to be bought out a few days ago, and he still doesn’t get it.
Combined with a desire to be like Sheed and play from the outside, instead of playing inside like a man does with his body, he was doomed. But, he was an easy pick, especially since Melo would play behind Tay.
2) JD traded not for AI, but more for AI’s expiring contract. I know it’s been sold differently, but after the 2008 playoffs, JD decided he couldn’t get it done with Chauncey. While Chauncey’s skills haven’t declined very much, his hunger certainly has, it was time for him to move on. To my mind, it has always been pretty clear what AI’s about, he’s not going to win anything ever. Now, if I could see that, so could JD, but to his mind, he probably gets a free roll just in case AI buys into the team concept. For AI’s part, his post-Pistons interviews have been consistent-and completely about AI.
3) When would you propose he deal Sheed? That’s pretty funny,
4) Extending Rip’s contract? He earned that contract. (See TJL’s analysis, which I agree with)
Now…as for your concerns:
5) BG/CV signings: too early to tell. Way too early to tell, CV looks like a good signing though. BG got off to a torrid start, then has had a series of injuries. JD may have overpaid, but not by much.
6) Wrong DeJuan: Problem is, I think JD wanted to have an open audition for the 3 spot. Blair looked like a Maxiell clone. How many JMax’s do you want or need on your squad?
As for the other picks…Daye was at least an ok pick. JJ was gold. He had a good draft, but nitpick all you want because he didn’t pick Blair, a guy you were right about.
7) Walter Sharpe: wasn’t he like the 42d pick? What are you expecting with the 42d pick? I’m not making or breaking a GM when he has to pick in the 20s and 40s year after year.
8) MCWAFI, but…Flip had to go. This was Mr. D.‘s decision, besides, the players had tuned him out, management thought he should have gotten at least one more ring (LB would’ve, for sure), and it was clear his claimerness as a coach was obvious. MC was the guy in waiting and got the job a year early. Problem was he wasn’t ready to take the first chair, and bumbled so badly he won’t be getting any more chances anytime soon. But the investment in him is small. In fairness to MC, he got backdoored by the AI trade. But he still obviously wasn’t ready by the way he handled the trade and by the way he communicated with the media.
9) I’m not so sure Rip is untradeable. What’s the Cavs going to offer for Rip-Mo Williams and Leon Powe? Z straight up? And would he pull the trigger on either?
10) 2009 Draft: This one is easy: JJ has won the audition, Daye may develop too (though the operative word is “may”), Tay’s getting dealt at some point. You can’t judge on this one until Tay’s situation is resolved.
11) I wouldn’t pull the trigger on the proposed Rondo trade, either. I’m not buying the hype on him. Rondo’s a quality player, no doubt, but playing with Garnett, Pierce, Allen makes him look better than he probably is.
Now, let me add some analysis: Dumars may be playing for a secondary UFA in 2010 and one in 2011. The guy I’d be targeting would be Marc Gasol, because he plays for an owner who is cheap and Sterling-esque in ownership style, and a GM who has no business still being a GM. but he’s not going to be available until 2011. I mean, watch what happens this summer and see if they’ll match on Rudy Gay. Also, it is a long way away from both the trading deadline and this summer; it’s clear to me he has a vision of how he wants to build, and he has access to more information than you or I. The other guy would be DLee, but we already have CV, but you never know.
I think he will be able to put together a contender again by Summer 2011. The guard rotation is solid for years to come, Rip or no Rip, JJ looks ready to take over for Tay at the 3, we need two big men. With the right deal and the right signing, we may even become relevant again by next fall. Still, you’re in a division with LeBron in it, and he’s reaching his peak.
Finally, the only guys in Dumars’ class as a GM are Burford and Presti. Outside of those two, who would you have run the team? Maybe we should find out if Rick Sund is available.
by V. on Jan 17, 2010 3:21 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
"No one is going to win a championship paying Ben Gordon 60 million..."
Bill Simmons.
Look, some of us are more willing to cut Dumars slack than others. Personally, I’m baffled by how the past 2 years have played out, aside from the list in the OP. I don’t like the direction the franchise appears to be going at all; I think Joe’s set us up for mediocrity.
But the real argument isn’t so much what has been done. What’s done is done. Rip’s extension has been inked. BG’s 58 mil deal has been inked. Billups is gone. Etc. Etc.
The question is: what realistic moves can Dumars make over the next 1-2 years to finish the makeover?
That’s when I really get pessimistic … Regardless of what we do, we’re going to have limited money available over the next two summers. We won’t have enough to go after any of the marquee guys next summer, for certain. If we can move Rip without taking on too much salary and let Tay expire, we might have some wiggle room in the summer of 2011.
But let’s not forget this critical point — this summer, Ben Wallace and Kwame Brown expire. We have a gaping hole at C as it is; what the hell are we going to do without those two guys?
So not only do we have limited options in terms of trade assets and money to sign players, we have needs that absolutely have to be filled. Huge roster holes, limited resources to fill them.
To sum this rant up: I really hate the way things have played out. I realize people will disagree. But what really gets me is this: in order to be contenders again, we need several pieces. For example, I love Marc Gasol, but does Marc Gasol make us a contender? Hardly. But right now, the best-case scenario that any of us has been able to (realistically) envision nets us 1 piece.
Okay, stop typing …
Joe Dumars....
….Brought a championship team to detroit again…..he is clearly a top 10 gm…..People that badmouth are people that liked Millen as a gm as well…..Not every move is going to work out but over 75% of Joe ds have….Go Pistons!!! GO JOE D!!!
by BennieBladesFan on Jan 17, 2010 3:41 PM EST reply actions
Best Gm...
….In this city of Detroit as well.
by BennieBladesFan on Jan 17, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I used to think Dumars could do no wrong
Now he’s repeatedly doing wrong. I am quite concerned and really not liking this direction they’re going in at all. We’ll see what this offseason looks like before I make any concrete opinions though, he’s certainly earned that much.
All your favorite Tigers blog are belong to me.
Bless You Boys.com -- MackAvenueTigers.com
Plus....
….a full healthy squad….The pistons lead the NBA in man games lost to injury.
by BennieBladesFan on Jan 17, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
this guys talking about the rockets, but it kinda echoes how i feel about the pistons after all the injuries this year
“I view this season as house money – if the team plays well, like they were before the new year – I’ll get in on the fun and think of the playoff possibilities … This is a basketball team in transition with at least a 75% chance of having a completely different dynamic next season (whether simply by Yao’s return or also via trade.) So why should I be overly concerned about what’s taking place on the floor, other than from a player development perspective?”
there might be a fair amount of turnover this summer and who knows what trades we will make and who will even be here next year. i just want to see our prospects and stuckey mature and get plenty of pt.
Good or bad?
As soon as any detractor here can point me in the direction of a better gm, i’ll stick with JOD. Anyone happy with how we did things last time we got tired of our not-quite-good-enough-coach??? I would’ve kept Saunders, twitches and all, and i’ll stick with JOD until a better candidate presents him/her self.
upstream
there’s a series of posts listing when expectations for “turning this thing around” and, presumably, when it’s time to cut the cord w/ JOD. I’m not voting Joe D for life, but this line of conversation is certainly pointing towards a conclusion of weather to keep to fire JOD, either immediately or in the near future. How are you reading it?
Well, to be honest, I haven’t heard anyone on these forums calling for joe’s head … I mean, if we’re this bad next year, then that’s a different conversation.
No question about it: Joe built one of the most successful franchises for a decade. You can’t argue with that kind of success.
I’m reading the current critiques through that lens. Joe made some brilliant moves in the past. But the past is the past, and no one has been able to figure out the moves he’s made in the present. And when I say no one, I’m exaggerating a bit.
So I’m reading this as a reasoned critique of the job Joe Dumars has done over the past two calendar years, mixed with a healthy dose of fan frustration (because we currently suck).
I don't know what other conclusion you'd draw.
“Okay, we’ve decided you are indeed a bad GM, Mr. Dumars. However we’re not going to ask for your resignation, we simply wanted to express how poor your performance has been since the 2004 Championship.”
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
by Skylar on Jan 18, 2010 4:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
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