A complacent team with Sheed in the starting lineup?
by Kevin Sawyer on Jan 21, 2010 12:26 AM CST
36 comments
Packey is working the post-game wrap, and I just caught the game on TiVo, but I thought I'd chime in with some observations:
1) I don't think enough could be said about how dominant the Pistons were in the second half. Detroit held Boston to four field goals (and 20 points) in the first 20 minutes. That's insane. This is one of the most offensively efficient teams in the league, even without Garnett.
2) I seldom whine about the refs, but they were absurd in that first half.
3) In that second half, I believe Detroit had one turnover, vs. 14 in the first half. Also, the Pistons went to a zone, which was brilliant. I believe we saw what is known in the sports world as "coaching".
4) I've been thinking this for awhile, but we should be ready for a slow learning curve for Rodney Stuckey. He is a point guard in the Chauncey Billups mold, which means he is asked to do everything well, from defense to rebounding to passing to outside shooting. I think he's up for it. Look at his stat line. I just hope we won't pull a T-Wolves and give up on him.
5) Ben Wallace blocking Sheed made me tingle. Tee hee.
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5)
Court Justice.
“We slay all suckas who perpetrate, and lay down law from state to state”
-RUN DMC, 1986
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
by Skylar on Jan 21, 2010 12:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Maxiell block
was the turning point in the game.
by Quick Darshan on Jan 21, 2010 12:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Austin Daye
1. Great to see Kuester put him on Rondo. It cut off Boston’s offense at the head.
2. Also great to see him run the point with Chucky hurt and Stuckey in foul trouble.
3. That move he put on Pierce was sick. As was his block on Big Baby (nice to see him willing to bang).
by Quick Darshan on Jan 21, 2010 12:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i think picking up that suspension..
let us know he was willing to bang.
My Music: Now on last.fm!!
My Blog: Inside A Head
by madpoopz on Jan 21, 2010 1:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie V's badassery.
On Sheed:
"Of course, he wanted to show the fans what they’ve been missing," Villanueva said. "But Charlie V’s here."
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 21, 2010 12:48 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Oh, SNAP!!!!
I like ‘Sheed, but that’s a great, great line.
by Toledo Joe on Jan 21, 2010 7:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We been missing post play since '06
Maybe work on that Charlie, we could use it.
But the badassery is a good jump off.
If you wanna be loved in the 313, recognize the importance of defense. I swear it will work.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
by Skylar on Jan 21, 2010 1:18 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
awesome!
missing the game but this is such a big news!!! this one made my day
by coinboy on Jan 21, 2010 2:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Damn, looks like I missed a hell of a game, can’t wait to watch the replay.
This is something I’ve written before, but from looking at Stuckey’s stat line tonight I’m again thinking his ideal position/role could be as a “do-it-all” off-guard in the Brandon Roy mold. Here’s a comparison of Stuckey, Billups, and Roy’s first three seasons.
The main thing that jumps out at me, and why I think Roy is a closer match, is that Stuckey’s career average usage % is higher than any single season of Billups career. Also, the secondary stats of Stuck and Roy are almost identical. There’s a big gap between them in efficiency, but Roy was a year older in his third season. With Billups, even though his fg% was closer to Stuckey’s, his ft% was already at 87%, which is a pretty clear indicator that he is just naturally an incredibly accurate shooter with his feet set.
by Gabe F-B on Jan 21, 2010 2:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
an incredibly accurate shooter with his feet set.
If you look at the mechanics of Rodney’s shot, you’ll notice his that he always shoots a jumpshot. This is just my personal opinion here, but I think if Rodney could develop a set shot the way that Billups did for 3 point attempts, he’d improve at that range.
The comparison to Roy is interesting. If that is his player type, even if he’s a poor man’s Roy, then a good question is what type of guard fits most naturally next to him … A guard who doesn’t dominate the ball, can shoot from distance, but is also a good passer and distributor when needed.
by brgulker on Jan 21, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In general
brgulker,
Once a player develops his specific way of shooting the ball from the perimeter as an authentic jump-shot, like Rodney Stuckey has done to this point in his life, it is extremely difficult to then revert to shooting set-shots from a perimeter position.
On the other hand, going in the opposite direction … i.e. changing from a perimeter set-shot technique to an authentic jumper … is not really a very difficult change to make at all.
“Messing” with Rodney’s specific shooting technique is NOT something I would ever recommend, as a way of improving his percentage and/or adjusting his current – and at times highly erratic – shot selection pattern. Working with him every day, in an effort to outline clearly what qualifies as a “good shot” [vs a “bad shot”] for him, specifically, is the better way to go, as long as it’s with a coach who really knows what he’s doing when it comes to teaching basketball properly [e.g. using positive and negative re-inforcements; using highly specific language/verbal instructions; providing the appropriate feedback; etc.].
A player like young Mr. Stuckey really does want to get better in this phase of the game but he NEEDS to be shown how to accomplish this goal by an expert practicioner in the Art & Science of Coaching Basketball [e.g. like Chauncey was mentored by L-Brown].
khandor
by khandor on Jan 21, 2010 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing:
I would dispute the point that it’s easy to add a jumpshot once you’ve developed a set shot. It’s not easy at all.
by brgulker on Jan 21, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
First-hand experience doing this with an elite level basketball player
brgulker,
Out of curiousity … Do you have any direct experience trying to make this type of adjustment in the game of an already accomplished basketball player?
From my personal experience, I can tell you that it’s taken me less than 1 week to accomplish this exact objective with a high level player.
khandor
by khandor on Jan 21, 2010 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL, boney did you rec khandor’s post? Or did he rec his own post? Either way, that’s awesome.
by Gabe F-B on Jan 21, 2010 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I gave him a rec
since we pass them out like candy!
+1 my friend
ELITE STATUS ATTAINED
by Boney on Jan 21, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
It wouldn’t require much tinkering at all.
Everyone in the NBA already shoots FTs while standing still, and there’s a reason for it: the more movement you can eliminate from your shot, the more likely it is that your shot will go in.
I’m not suggesting a mechanical overhaul — he already has a set shot in his arsenal, as does everyone in the NBA. I’m suggesting that Rodney eliminate some of the noise from his 3 point attempts by employing a shot he already has in a new situation.
by brgulker on Jan 21, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
brgulker
re: I’m suggesting that Rodney eliminate some of the noise from his 3 point attempts by employing a shot he already has in a new situation.
It’s exactly this type of cross-situational mixing-up … i.e. shooting your regular FT stroke when attempting a 3PT shot, after being a jump shooter for a period of years … which makes this process a more difficult task to accomplish for a high level player compared with working in the opposite direction.
[i.e. What happens frequently is that it actually messes up a player’s FT shooting routine while failing to improve his 3PT accuracy very much at all.]
khandor
by khandor on Jan 21, 2010 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Have I ever coached an NBA player? No. Have I ever been coached by former professional players? Yes. Have I ever played at the collegiate level? Yes.
Does that make me an expert on anything? No.
I’m saying that from my experience, it’s not difficult to transition from a jumpshot to a set shot for three point attempts. Players all over the NBA have this in their games. Watch the 3 point shoot out this all star break. You will see guys taking set shots who would take jumpshots from closer to the rim.
Take Michael jordon, one of the greatest players ever. He had a brilliant jumpshot. He had a brilliant fadeaway turnaround from the post. And he eventually developed a 3 point shot — which was a set shot most of the time.
I don’t know for sure if it will work. All I know with certainty is that Rodney’s three point shot is currently a hot mess, and when you look at his mechanics, there are two options:
1. Stay the same, practice more, and hope it improves.
2. Try something different, make a minor, minor change by employing a shot that’s already in his arsenal in a different situation.
If the latter doesn’t work, what has been lost? He’s already dismal from outside eighteen feet.
by brgulker on Jan 21, 2010 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're correct in saying that ...
brgulker,
1. A minor change in Rodney’s technique is exactly what’s needed in this case.
It’s just that telling a jump shooting 3PT shooter not to jump on his 3PT shot is not a minor change, IMO; it’s a fairly major one.
There are a number of other suggestions/adjustments which could be made in a less disruptive way, e.g. altering his current footwork as he enters into his shooting position.
2. I’m not saying that shooting a set shot as a 3PT shot is a bad thing to do. What I’m saying is that it’s a difficult adjustment to make if what a player has done to this point in his basketball career is shoot his 3PT shot as a traditional jump shot. [i.e. in general, the players who shoot a set shot 3PT shot with the highest percentages are the ones who have shot with that technique since they were very young players, not those who adapted their initial technique because of their erratic performance as a 3PT jump shooter.
3. It may have been relatively easy for MJ to develop his successful 3PT shot technique, as a set shot, if he was in fact not someone who initially learned to shoot his 3PT shot as a traditional jump shooter.
4. re: what could be lost in the process
What you don’t want to do when working with an elite level player is to mess up different aspects of his existing in an effort to correct a flaw in something like his 3PT shooting technique.
What I would recommend instead is looking closely for the existing flaw in his shot technique, period, that to this point has only reared its ugly head and effected his 3PT shot but is still present in his routine jump shot just not to the point that it’s causing him to shoot an unacceptably low percentage. Once you find this existing flaw and correct it, the player should then be able to apply the same technique to each shot he takes from the field without causing any disruption to a different part of his game.
khandor
by khandor on Jan 21, 2010 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO, that’s easy. From the first time I saw Stuckey shoot a jumper I said to myself: He uses his arm way too much and barely uses his wrist, which results in him putting very little arc or touch on the ball.
He also brings the ball almost behind his head, which can work if you have a release like Sheed’s where you then immediately go vertical with it and mostly shoot with your wrists, but instead Stuckey kinda slingshots the ball vertically at the basket. Makes for some serious long range bricklaying.
by Gabe F-B on Jan 21, 2010 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
*oops- meant to say: Stuckey shoots horizontally at the basket.
by Gabe F-B on Jan 21, 2010 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree to disagree
I’m speaking from my own experience as a player. I was a very good shooter (that sounds terribly arrogant, don’t mean it that way). The more “noise” you eliminate from your technique, the more consistent your shot will become — especially at long ranges.
Everyone who plays and coaches realizes this. That’s why people don’t jump on their free throws. Ideally, you want one, fluid motion. Start with knees bent, and in one motion, extend legs, arms, and finally wrist. The more motion you can eliminate, the better the chances that your shot starts (and hence finishes) on line.
As I said, Rodney already does this. He practices FTs all the time. On Fox Sports Detroit, they recently ran a spot that tracked his shooting practice with his shooting coach — he was shooting long range 3s! I took special note of it, because I’d wondered about his practice with respect to his jumper. But when Rodney gets in games, all his shots are jumpers.
I think, based on my experience, that adding a set shot from deep (as well as some type of floater in the lane) would boost his overall effectiveness.
But it’s purely subjective opinion. I’ll be cool agreeing to disagree on this one.
by brgulker on Jan 22, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's important to be clear about this
brgulker,
Before we can agree to disagree about this, we need to clarify what exactly we are disagreeing about.
Here’s what I am saying:
Situation 1. Rodney is currently shooting a set shot FT. [A shot]
Situation 2. Rodney is currently shooting a jump shot 2PT jump shot. [B shot]
Situation 3. Rodney is currently shooting a jump shot 3PT jump shot. [B shot]
What you’d like to see Rodney do instead is:
Situation 1. Keep shooting a set shot FT. [A shot]
Situation 2. Keep shooting a jump shot 2PT jump shot. [B shot]
Situation 3. Change his current 3PT jump shot to a 3PT set shot. [C shot]
IMO, it is more difficult for an elite level player … i.e. like Rodney Stuckey … to add a 3rd shot type to his repertoire – which applies to Situation 3, exclusively – than it is for him/her to fix the flaw which currently exists in his/her A shot and/or B shot technique that is causing the problem in Situation 3 [at present].
If an elite level player starts out shooting in the following way:
Situation 1. Shooting a set shot FT. [A shot]
Situation 2. Shooting a jump shot 2PT jump shot. [B shot]
Situation 3. Shooting a set shot 3PT shot. [C shot]
s/he has years of repetitions to perfect these three distinct shot techniques.
This is not Rodney Stuckey’s situation, however.
What I think you are saying is that, based on your own experience, you believe that it is easier for an elite level player to develop a 3rd shot technique [C shot] … which applies exclusively to Situation 3 … than it is to adjust/improve/perfect the mechanics involved in the 2 shot techniques [i.e. A shot and B shot] s/he is currently using and has used for a period of years.
From my perspective, I have no problem agreeing to disagree upon this specific point.
i.e. You think 3 different shot techniques are better than 2 different shot techniques; and, I think 2 different shot techniques are better than 3 different shot techniques.
==========
re: the less noise a player has in his/her particular shot technique the better it is
I agree with this observation, therefore, there is no need for us to agree to disagree about this specific point.
khandor
by khandor on Jan 23, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When the Pistons use a tight rotation, with good size at each of the 5 positions on the floor, and limit the PT given to Mr. Wilcox, like they did this evening:
STARTERS
PG, Stuckey [41 min]
OG, Hamilton [39 min]
SF, Jerebko [22 min]
PF-C, Wilcox [8 min]
C-PF, Wallace [35+ min]
KEY SUBS
PG, Atkins [14 min]
OG, Daye [25 min]
PF, Villanueva [21 min]
PF-C, Maxiell [30+ min]
RESERVES/EXTRAS
Summers [1+ min]
they become a much tougher opponent to play against, if the opponent happens to be one of the best teams in the league.
Great to see that John Kuester is beginning to do some effective “coaching” with the solid NBA talent on this year’s Pistons squad.
As I’ve said before …
Veritable pups like Stuckey [major role/multi-purpose match-up nightmare], Daye [minor role/multi-purpose match-up nightmare] and Jerebko [minor role/multi-purpose-glue-guy] are going to become very good players in this league, if they’re given the proper opportunity to develop in Detroit this season, playing alongside the likes of Rip Hamilton [major role/mid-range scorer], Chucky Atkins [minor role/passer-defender], Ben Gordon [major role/perimeter scorer-playmaker], Tay Prince [major role/multi-purpose match-up nightmare], Jason Maxiell [major role/defender-rebounder], Kwame Brown [minor role/defender-rebounder], Charlie Villanueva [major role/perimeter-mid-range scorer], Chris Wilcox [minor role/rebounder-shot-blocker] and Ben Wallace [major role/rebounder-shot-blocker].
Hopefully, it’s not too late for the Pistons to make a legit run for the No. 8 playoff spot, if Mr. Kuester keeps this up.
khandor
by khandor on Jan 21, 2010 2:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
2 blocks on sheed!!
guess there’s no more need for sheed ;-)
by coinboy on Jan 21, 2010 2:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting thread at Celtics Blog
http://www.celticsblog.com/2010/1/21/1263041/how-concerned-are-you
Honestly, both their team and their comments remind me of being a Pistons fan in 06-08 …
by brgulker on Jan 21, 2010 10:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Our Wallace...
..is better than their Wallace. Charlotte’s Wallace is better too.
by Quick Darshan on Jan 21, 2010 11:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
that's because...
our Wallace WORKS.
My Music: Now on last.fm!!
My Blog: Inside A Head
by madpoopz on Jan 21, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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