Thursday's Layup Drill: Pistons For Sale edition
Considering the enormity of the news, we haven't really spent too much time talking about the potential sale of the Pistons, in part, I think, because there's not much to really say. Even after Karen Davidson confirmed the rumors during Wednesday's game, it's hard to believe that anything might actually happen sometime soon. As Vince Ellis put it in the Free Press:
Isn’t the market already flooded with NBA teams for sale? The Charlotte Bobcats are looking for a new owner, according to HoopsWorld. The Contra Costa Times reports that Golden State Warriors owner Chris Cohan is shopping the franchise around. The Memphis Grizzlies reportedly have been on the market for several years, but owner Michael Heisley can’t find a buyer.
The Washington Wizards, whose owner died in November, are in the process of being sold to Capitals owner Ted Leonsis. Appraisers will determine the value of the sale. The New Jersey Nets are in the final stages of being sold to Russian billionaire Mikhail Prokhorov.
Not only that, but who's in a rush to invest nearly half a billion dollars into an industry wholly dependent on discretionary income in a region that sports the nation's highest unemployment rate? An owner intent on moving the team, perhaps, but I can't imagine that actually happening considering much of the franchise's value is driven by the fact it includes a privately owned, debt-free arena.
(For what it's worth, Cavs owner Dan Gilbert (through a spokeman) has denied interest, but you have to imagine the guy has at least pondered the possibility this week.)
There's been chatter about a joint arena being built in downtown Detroit that the Pistons would share with the Red Wings, a move I'd endorse 110%, but that adds yet another layer of complexity to an already uncertain situation. All we really know at the moment is that we don't much. So let's leave it at that for now and get on with the morning links, re-hashing and re-living what was easily the Pistons' signature win of the season.
Vince Ellis / Detroit Free Press: Rasheed Wallace on the fans' reaction to his return:
"It was cool and definitely wonderful," Wallace said after the Pistons' 92-86 victory. "It let me know that the fans here still love me as a player.
"It was pretty cool."
Chris Iott / MLive: Charlie Villanueva on Detroit's energy:
"We were playing a tough team in the Eastern Conference," Pistons forward Charlie Villanueva said. "If you can't get fired up for that, you don't deserve to be in the league."
John Kuester praises Ben Wallace's 'all-star' play
Rob Otto / MLive on Joe Dumars' decision to re-sign Rasheed after the '04 title:
But his big failing was getting swept up in the emotion after upsetting the Lakers for the 2004 Championship. Dumars knew they would not have won the trophy without Wallace, and he wanted to keep a good thing going, so he re-signed Rasheed. It was a move that I and many other Piston fans applauded at the time. But Rasheed coming back meant that there was not room for Mehmet Okur. And in hindsight, this team would be much better off today if Memo was still here.
[...] We'll never know if the team would have been as successful the last four season had Dumars kept Okur instead of Wallace, but I certainly believe they wouldn't be as bad as they are now if Memo were still wearing Piston red, white and blue.
This line of thinking kind of baffles me -- the Pistons came within minutes of a back-to-back title in '05, and within games of being a Finalist for years after. Bringing Rasheed back was not a mistake. More importantly, re-signing Memo was never an option: a loophole in the salary cap (since fixed) prevented teams from going over the cap to re-sign second-round picks -- it's the same reason why Golden State never had a chance at keeping Gilbert Arenas. (Hah, funny how that worked out, too.) Dumars deserves to be second-guessed for a lot of things the last few years; this is not one of them. But I digress ... back to the links!
Keith Langlois / Pistons.com: Role Playing:
"(Wallace) wanted to show the fans what they were missing," Villanueva grinned after the game, "but Charlie V is here."
Villanueva played hard at both ends, blocking two shots and doing a reasonable impersonation of Wallace’s two-way play.
"He had an outstanding game on both sides of the court," John Kuester said. "Getting him to buy into how we want to defend, we’ve got a heck of a basketball player there."
Dave Pemberton / Oakland Press: Win could be turning point of season
Gary Washburn and Julian Benbow / Boston Globe: This "Baby" talk not cute or cuddly:
Perhaps if you were watching last night’s Celtics-Pistons game on television or listening on the radio, you heard an expletive yelled out. That was Boston’s Glen “Big Baby’’ Davis shouting at a Detroit fan who kept calling him “fat boy’’ during the first half.
Davis’s graphic remark stunned fans sitting behind the Celtics’ bench. The fan, Scott Zack, was warned by arena security about his heckling but was determined to press the issue about Davis’s remark. Zack said he filed a complaint with NBA security.
Two thoughts: 1) Is that really the first time Davis has heard that insult? Dude needs a thicker skin on that soft belly. 2) Heckling can be fun, and getting a reaction out of an athlete makes it 100 times more enjoyable ...
... but feigning shock and pretending to take offense when the athlete curses is incredibly lame. Get off your high horse, Mr. Zack -- you got in his head and you likely got him fined, so quit pretending that making him scream in frustration wasn't the exact outcome you were hoping might happen, or that the language he used was something worse than what most adults use a dozen times a day.
ESPN's Marc Stein with trade rumors:
The Pistons are suddenly 5-1 since their 13-game losing streak, including Wednesday night’s home win over Boston, but don't expect them to abandon their efforts to find a big man who can score by offering up old reliables Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton.
Last but not least ... PistonsNation: Block Don't Lie:
Did we miss anything? Let us know with a comment or a FanPost. And until we meet again, consider this your open thread for the day.
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Comments
Memo
I agree on the point about Memo. Re-signing him was definitely not an option.
I also want to comment that coming within minutes of winning a championship the next year was truly an amazing thing when you consider The Pistons only really had two viable bench options that year, Dyess and Lindsey.
That ’05 campaign was a testament to two things, how truly great that starting 5 was and how great of a coach LB was. ’05 is the year Miami should have knocked us out of the playoffs, not ’06.
Agreed
With the main post re Memo and with Alex_Be’s comment (I’ve been pushing the argument that the problem after ’04 was mainly the weak bench in other threads).
Re Memo, I would only add that after 2004, Dumars probably still thought that Darko could/would turn into something good, and was therefore probably a tad overconfident in his big-man situatino.
Yeah, if Darko could have at least grown up to be just a very slightly better Kwame Brown, I think he probably pushes us over the top against the Spurs. One more usable big man to throw against Duncan would have helped a lot.
I remember being very disappointed that we weren’t able to re-sign Memo. He’s still a very effective player, and having him and Rasheed would have been as deadly for years as it was for that one.
On the upside, we did go sign McDyess, which was far and away Joe’s best bench acquisition ever.
Don't Get Me Wrong...
…I would have loved to get Memo back (and Mike James). But even after knowing everything that I do, I would still resign ’Sheed in that situation.
I was thinking both, not either/or.
Matt spoke of the cap loophole that has since been closed…iirc, if that situation happened in today’s NBA, we could have gone over the cap to keep both of them.
I don’t know how that would have impacted the Dice signing, though.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I agree, with the loophole closed I would have went over the cap for both as well. I meant that knowing what I know now, and considering the loop-hole was still in effect, I would still go with ’Sheed.
I don’t think we would have been able to sign Dice (just thinking about it off the top of my head, I haven’t tried looking up any numbers or anything). As much as I love Dice, if it had been possible, I would rather have had Memo.
Who Might Buy The Pistons?
Someone will snap it up. I can’t think the franchise is not a good deal right now, considering the state of the economy and Mrs. D’s wanting to unload it. All the prospects listed here are worth at least $1B and are native Detroiters.
Illitch Family: doubtful. Mr. I doesn’t like B-ball. Pity.
Dan Gilbert: If not for the fact that he already owns a franchise, marketed in the Pistons’ image, and the greatest basketball player on the planet, he’d probably be the prohibitive favorite. But stay tuned…problem is who would take the Cavs, especially if LBJ bolts? Also, as noted previously, duked into some initiatives in OH which would legalize casino gambling there. Selling the Cavs might impact his position in those initiatives.
Al Taubman; former owner of USFL’s Michigan Panthers, has some experience in owning a team. Might not want to take on this type of venture at his age. He’s the guy who was sanpped chatting with Mrs D. at last night’s game.
Peter Karamanos; Compuware founder already owns Carolina Panthers. More a hockey guy, but you never know. Karamanos has bet big on Detroit in the past, moving Compuware’s world HQ to downtown. Maybe another big bet is coming. Karamanos and Mike Illitch don’t get along, although both will publicly deny that. Personal rivalry goes back many years when both were sponsoring junior hockey teams in Detroit.
Steve Ballmer
Ballmer offered to buy back the Sonics from Bennett as a last stitch effort to keep the team in Seattle…in addition to buying the team back he also offered up $150 Million of his own money to renovate Key Arena or help build a new arena.
Hey could buy the Pistons franchise and sell off Palace Sports & Entertainment to a local millionaire (Gilbert, Ilitch, etc.).
Seattle would welcome the Pistons with open arms and change the team name to the Seattle Super PIstons.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jan 21, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Thabeet and Team for Sale
So Chad Ford reporst this morning that Thabeet could be on the trading block…interesting to consider a 7 footer who can run the floor and block shots…not sure if he would help us much right now…rumor is they’re looking for a defensive minded veteran player in return…hey there Memphis! How about you take back Kwame Brown!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Protected 1st. I don’t want to move our 1st pick this season, TBH, unless it’s part of a blockbuster deal. Thabeet isn’t that…
I think Thabeet is actually really underrated. His numbers in college suggested his floor as a player would still make him a solid center, check out his college comps (he’s first on the list).
I don't disagree
I think Thabeet is a decent player with potential.
But I wouldn’t want to spend our potential top 10 pick in order to acquire him.
I wouldn't mind Thabeet
But only if all we’re giving up is Kwame Brown or Wilcox. And absolutely NO 1st round picks of any sort, protected or not. They’re basically admitting they fucked up the pick, so no need to bail them out.
Ford indicated that it was more a question of his play style not fitting Memphis. Honestly, I don’t think Thabeet would be on the table had Randolph not significantly improved his efficiency and game overall.
And agreed that we do not give up a 1st round pick nor could we give up Tay straight up as salaries don’t work. We could however give up Maxiell for Thabeet + a 2nd rounder…although Maxiell isn’t the defensive minded veteran they’re looking for.
I hate to say it, but Ben Wallace has a pretty high trade value right now for the contenders and Memphis feels they’re a contender.
We could package Ben Wallace + Chris Wilcox for Thabeet and still have plenty left to go after another legit big man. Thabeet has at least 2 more years on his contract so if we wanted to try and go after Al Jefferson with a package of Tay/Kwame/Stuckey for Jeff/Sessions we could still do so. That would leave us with:
Jefferson, CV31, Thabeet, and Wilcox in the frontcourt plus we could realistically look to sign Ben Wallace at the end of this season after his contract expires this year.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jan 21, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry...assumption is that they don't want Wilcox and waive him allowing us to pick him back up.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jan 21, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
we got
Cato and a protected 1st for darko, which is kinda what i would expect for thatbeet, at minimum, since they just drafted him, and we had darko’s corpse rotting on the bench for a couple of seasons at that point.
Jefferson, CV31, Thabeet, and Wilcox in the frontcourt plus we could realistically look to sign Ben Wallace at the end of this season after his contract expires this year.
God, and it just gets worse. You expect Joe to trade Ben Wallace, whose career has been completely reborn with the Pistons, and then expect Ben to be willing to sign again next year?
Give me a break.
by brgulker on Jan 21, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is definitely how I feel.
You what kinda shitstorm Dumars would have on his hands if he traded #6?
To do that deal, he’d have to resign immediately after completion.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Gotta wait 30 days just to clear waivers, to boot.
Trading Ben Wallace has no upside, period.
by brgulker on Jan 21, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would boourns the shit out of such a move. No sir.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
by Skylar on Jan 21, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A few things
Ben Wallace’s career has been reborn in Detroit but he’s still going on 36 years old. Realistically he’s good for another year at most. And if Ben Wallace is on this team AND starting next year then I’d say that is a greater failure of Joe D than it would be to simply trade Ben Wallace to a contender FOR THE RIGHT PIECE. JoD has stated clearly that he’s looking to make moves that help us in the long-term and if Ben Wallace being traded to Memphis nets a future franchise defensive minded 7 foot center, then he better fucking do it.
You talk about his career being reborn as if he were McDyess and still had 3-5 years left in the tank. Do I think it’s realistic that we could trade Ben to a contender and sign him in the off-season again? Definitely. He already signed with us once for the league veterans minimum after (not to mention JoD already slighted him once by not giving him the big contract he was hoping for 4 years ago) knowing we wouldn’t be a major contender so winning a ring doesn’t seem to be that big of an issue. And if his expectation is that we won’t even make the playoffs then aren’t we doing him a service by putting him on a team that could/will during the last year or two of his career?
So yes, I think that it is completely reasonable to think that IF Ben Wallace decides to play next year, he’d still consider signing with Detroit despite JoD trading him to a better team than we are.
And lastly, I will not give you a break. Quit being so emotional about a resurgence from a player we all love which none of us expected.
Oh and on a sidenote, just because I offer up trade scenarios doesn’t mean I necessarily agree with them, but Memphis would realistically like a player like Ben Wallace on their team come playoffs and this is the first time it’s been mentioned that Thabeet could be on the block so someone had to offer something up to generate discussion.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I don’t think Ben ever felt slighted by Dumars, who certainly made an effort to keep him (tried to make him the highest-paid player in Pistons history, but Chicago offered a little bit more). He just wasn’t getting along with the coaching staff, didn’t like the direction the team was going, etc.
But if Dumars traded Ben NOW, I have to think he’d be offended, especially if he landed with a faux-contender like Memphis and not a team with a legitimate shot at a title.
So yes, I think that it is completely reasonable to think that IF Ben Wallace decides to play next year, he’d still consider signing with Detroit despite JoD trading him to a better team than we are.
Dude, listen to that. It doesn’t make any sense. Ben Wallace signed here because he wanted to end his career in Detroit. He’s said it publicly. It was understood at the time of his contract signing; Dumars knew it. Rip was instrumental in his decision to come here and not retire. All of us know all of those things.
It would be the very definition of a dick move to trade Ben Wallace with all of that clearly in Dumars’ mind. It would also be a horrible management decision — how do you think Rip would react? How do you think Tay would react? How do you think such a move would impact future veterans who are considering signing on with Detroit — “If Dumars would ship Ben Wallace in a deal after publicly saying he wanted to end his career in the D, what does that mean for me signing there?” GMs in the NBA simply can’t afford to treat players like that; it ruins the credibility that you must have in order to attract guys like Ben Wallace when your team needs them.
If I’m Ben Wallace and Dumars snubs me by trading me, there’s no way I come back to play for him again — who’s to say he won’t just dump me again? Now, I can’t read his mind, so I’m speculating. But the scenario you proposed seems like a huge reach to me, not a reasonable proposal.
And lastly, I will not give you a break. Quit being so emotional about a resurgence from a player we all love which none of us expected.
First, I said before the beginning of the season that I was more excited about Ben Wallace than any of the other offseason moves. I didn’t expect this level of production, but I was hoping he’d be our starter since training camp, and now he is and deserves to be. He’s our best rebounder, best defender, and he’s even showed some offense. I watched him quite a bit last year, and even though his minutes were down, he was the same old Ben Wallace.
Second, how can you be a Pistons fan and not be at least somewhat emotionally attached to Ben Wallace? I mean, he opted to come back here and play for minimum wage on a team that never had a chance at contending simply because he wanted to end his career playing in the place that made him a star. It’s a great story. You should expect that when you suggest trading him that people are going to give you a WTF? This blog claims to be biased right on the front page, after all.
You talk about his career being reborn as if he were McDyess and still had 3-5 years left in the tank….
Uh, what? He’s got this year, for sure. Maybe next year in a limited role … maybe. I’m not sure how you get from my statement to 3-5 years, but that’s not what I meant at all.
JoD has stated clearly that he’s looking to make moves that help us in the long-term and if Ben Wallace being traded to Memphis nets a future franchise defensive minded 7 foot center, then he better fucking do it.
Thabeet is a project. He’s a project I’d welcome, but that’s not really the point. The point is that Thabeet does not make or break this team in the present or in the future. He’s peripheral at best. If Marc Gasol or Al Jefferson were available, and the only way to get them were to include Ben Wallace, then I’d feel differently than I do right now. But we’re talking about Thabeet here … a guy who is probably years away from being the player he may (or may not) become. No, I don’t want to trade Ben Wallace for that.
by brgulker on Jan 22, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
plus rec
Agreed. Trading Ben Wallace would be, yes, the very definition of a dick move, as you said.
uhhhh...you said "Ben Wallace's career has been reborn in Detroit"
If anything he’s gotten a second wind but it’s not one that will last past this year. So if Ben Wallace got us (and I agree with you that ultimately Thabeet is not in my top 4 trade choices) a future franchise center, then yes, I would still trade him. Just because a player wants to end their career in Detroit doesn’t mean we should just pull him out of all trade scenarios…
And as for being emotionally attached to Ben Wallace and what he’s brought us this year and in year’s past well, I guess I don’t really get emotional when considering purely hypothetical scenarios. I love the guy, have both a #3 and a #6 jersey, fro, head bands, arm bands, wrist bands all because of the guy. He’s easily one of my favorite Pistons players of all time (second only to Scott Hastings) and he re-inserted himself as the heart of this team as if he’d never left.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jan 22, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
2nd only to scott hastings?
who’s 3rd? sean elliott?
by C$ on Jan 22, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think I've made more than an emotional argument
As a GM, I don’t think Joe can afford to trade Ben Wallace, because how GMs treat veteran players (who sign on vet minimum deals) gets remembered by veteran players and their agents.
Now, if we were talking about Marc Gasol, I would feel different, as I said — because that’s a franchise C. But we’re talking about Thabeet, a project, who IMO is just as likely to bomb as become a rotation big man. THAT is not worth risking Ben Wallace and the political capital that would be spent by dealing him.
Anyway, I think we’ve both said our peace.
Maxiell For Thabeet?
Dude, that’s a hijacking. Then again, you could sell Chris Wallace a bridge in Brooklyn.
We are not dealing Big Ben. Repeat after me: …
by V. on Jan 21, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
That's a call to arms.
A fight with knives. I honestly may stab somebody if they attempt to package Ben Wallace in a trade.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
by Skylar on Jan 21, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thabeet is okay
only if we don’t plan on using him as a starter. busty mcbusternson needs a real C in front of him if we’re going to contend (or even compete).
Leaving you without further suspense
1. Karen Davidson is a gold digger
2. You could see this coming
3. What the fuck is wrong with the Palace?
4. It happened to Seattle … what’s next, Birmingham Alabama Pistons?
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
Package Deal or À la carte
What’s crazy is that the Palace could be sold separately from the team. Anyone who doesn’t have the money to afford both shouldn’t be buying. For that matter, anyone who wants the Palace and not the team shouldn’t be buying.
Good thing Bill Davidson’s dead. This would have killed him.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
I'm not that down on Thabeet
I was never high on the dude either, but listen.
He’s in his rookie year and had his jaw broken by the jailblazers. I can’t label him a bust at this time, he is surely no star player as of now but I think it’s incumbent upon Memphis to build their new players up and I think they’ve done a poor job with him. He’s only 22 and it’s far too early to call the man trash. Just my two cents.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
No sugarcoat, Glen davis not just BIG man, but also big BABBY. Need to not yell at FANS and take heckles in STRIDE. just epinion.
by coachDP on Jan 21, 2010 1:17 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
Made my day
So, I’m reading the thread and I see a pop-up saying the thread was updated. I read the name of the author and let out a Marv Albert “yes!”
Glen Davis is highly paid for what he does.
The heckler was unimaginative and low-class, but Glen sunk deeper by asking the guy to service him orally.
So Davis deserves a fine because of how he conducted himself, but that’s just egging on a guy who hasn’t been at peace with himself since childhood.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Bill Davidson is dead, and so are the Pistons'
And so is Detroit Bad Boys. I really don’t feel the vibe here, anymore.
It’s like Detroit Blog-a-Bull … ugh.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
by sauce1977 on Jan 21, 2010 4:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
ps
Don’t get me wrong, Matt Watson is cool, but otherwise, ugh.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
by sauce1977 on Jan 21, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is it wrong that I rec’d this? (The part about me being cool, not the vibe thing …)
by Matt Watson on Jan 22, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sauce
I miss you buddy. But you’d complain even if this blog was built by jesus and written by the actual bad boys.
by Mike Payne on Jan 22, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
mistakes
Speaking of Dumars’ mistakes, IMHO the resigning of Hamilton ranks right up there with drafting Darko. He’s unmovable in the market and plays like a 40 yr old.
He scores more than Dorko ever did
and actually earned his championship ring.
Hamilton has value on the market.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd

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