Rudy Gay? Al Jefferson?
by Roll The Dyess on Jan 21, 2010 1:24 PM EST
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PrintIn Chad Ford's most recent article, he says Detroit may be players for Rudy Gay. There's two problems though: the contracts aren't close, and we already have depth at small forward. Well to solve the first problem, here's what I got:
Detroit gets Rudy Gay, Sam Young, and Steven Hunter
Memphis gets Tayshaun and our 1st round pick this year :-\
Now to solve the second problem, logjam at sf, we include Austin Daye in a trade for Al Jefferson involving Detroit, Minny, and Cleveland. That would look like this:
Detroit gets Al Jefferson and Ryan Gomes
Minnesota gets Big Z, Austin Daye, Kwame Brown, and a second round pick from Detroit
Cleveland gets Richard Hamilton
Is this enough for Cleveland? It's assumed that if they trade Z, he'll be bought out by whomever and come back to the Cavs...
We would have a lineup like:
Stuckey/Bynum/Atkins
Gordon/Sam Young
Rudy Gay/Jerebko/Summers/Ryan Gomes
Wilcox/Villanueva/Maxiell/Steven Hunter
Al Jefferson/Wallace
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Either Chad Ford is crazy (highly likely), or we can finally confirm Jod has been abducted by aliens and replaced by an evil clone-Jod bent on destroying the Pistons from the inside.
We have absolutely zero need to make a play for Gay. Zero.
Jerebko is already about an average SF overall, which is damn impressive for a young euro rookie. Plus, Daye is showing signs that he can be a very useful contributor in a number of ways.
And here’s what should be the biggest factor: Daye and JJ will be making about $3mil a year combined for the next couple years and Gay will be due an expensive new contract after this season!
Anyway, I’m with brgulker; don’t give up on the trade ideas, but let’s just hope that Chad Ford doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
by Gabe F-B on Jan 21, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
If we have to trade Daye...
I think Jerebko would be a great guy to come off the bench. You’ve got to be crazy if you’d rather have Daye or Jerebko over Gay. Potential is potential is potential is not reality. The reality is that Gay is a quality 3 and our guys are rooks.
That being said. I would like, and from a management standpoint, I would assume Joe D would like also having our three rooks command that 3 spot on their rookie contracts.
But. If we have to give Daye or Jerebko up for a quality big man, I’m giving him up without looking back.
by Roll The Dyess on Jan 22, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
You’ve got to be crazy if you’d rather have Daye or Jerebko over Gay.
Then call me crazy. Gay is an okay player, but his only real statistical strength is PPG’s- it’s the only thing he’s above average at.
Here is a comparison of JJ, Daye, and Gay’s rookie year. Here is a comparison of their current seasons. Gay was the youngest rookie, but Daye has had to overcome his late-blooming and still developing body and JJ has had to adjust to the switch from euro league to the NBA. Looking at their rookie years, it’s pretty easy to see that Daye and JJ look just as good, or better.
Now, I could stomach trading for Gay and then needing to give him an extension if he’d turned himself into a superstar in the last 4 years. But he’s only made marginal improvements to his non-scoring numbers, and his scoring efficiency still isn’t anything special.
Basketball teams need a balance of scorers and role-players. A team of all scorers with no “dirty work” players tends to fall flat on its face… and a highly paid SG/SF/PF trio of Gordon/Gay/CV? Yikes. IMO, that’s a recipe for the lottery unless we have a PG/C combo of Chris Paul and Dwight Howard.
I agree that Daye and JJ shouldn’t be untouchable if they can help net us a legit PF/C, but doing a series of moves that leaves us with Gay makes no sense to me. If we’re “rebuilding” or “retooling” or whatever Jod is calling our current situation, why would we give up a cheap young player for an about-to-be very expensive young player who plays the same position?
Gordon/Gay/CV
Damn I see what you’re saying. When I was doing it I was thinking Stuckey/Gay/Jefferson. I guess Ben Gordon and Charlie V don’t enter my mind often, and generally don’t mean that much to me.
As far as highly paid, I think CV’s contract is a pretty good price. Then Gordon’s is ok at 10 mil, but when it starts getting 12 and 13, that’s a little steep.
Though, we haven’t seen BG play in a while. During the playoffs last year I was one of those who wanted him regardless of the sg jam with Rip, because he seemed so valuable. Here’s to hoping he reminds me why he’s around…
by Roll The Dyess on Jan 22, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
I can't see Ben Gordon not coming back strong.
Just based off the bulls games I’d catch (especially DET vs CHI) I just remember him shredding other teams, especially late in the game. I really think he’s a competitor and hasn’t been healthy since early in the season.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
I believe
I believe that Joe D could get away for something less for Gay, his contract is up this next summer. So either I would like to have Joe D convince the Grizz to talk with him about an extension pre-trade. I really think the grizz can get a good player even in the second round of this coming year. And if they get desperate enough I believe they will take it. they would like to be in the play offs.
BTW, @ the dude who is hating on Gay. Gay currently averages almost 2 more PPG than the current leading piston(Rip). And has better and almost identicle stats than Tayshaun Prince in a better Western conference. Plus I like the fact that Gay is a way more explosive player and a born scorer. I do like the fact that Prince is a great defensive player and very deceptive with his movements and motions both on offense and defense. But I believe that Daye is turning into a very similar player.
I say go ahead with the Gay deal IF it doesn’t include a first round pick and if we get to chat with Gay before about a possible extension.
Why is Memphis going to give up Gay?
Other than the “they might lose him for nothing” argument, there’s really no reason to believe he’s even on the block.
From their coach:
“Untrue. There’s no trade possibility for Rudy,” he said. “Rudy is a Memphis Grizzly, and for as long as he wants to be, he will be.”
Staudemire/Gortat are the guys we need to worry about, because they’re the only realistic options for filling a need we have out there right now.
rumor
Its just a rumor as of anything right now. But when does a team ever really admit that a certain player is on the trading block.
Besides last time I checked the GM deals with the team make up. While the coach might have a certain say in things(I personally don’t know what type of relationship the GM and coach have) it is ultimately up to the GM.
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe to deal to someone else.
It’s just a hypothetical trade I read a half an hour ago.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
yeahhh
Chad Ford says keep your eye on the Pistons damnit!
by Roll The Dyess on Jan 22, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
hes a vet
he is a veteran that is similar to Gay in ability and size. Tay is no doubt the better defensive player though. Defense is going to show in the play offs and even though the Grizz are over .500 they are a bubble team for not making the play offs.
I recently laid out a scenario for Jefferson
Which you can see here: Jefferson On the Block?
And you’ll note that I talked about Minny’s needs. They’re two-fold. One, they need help on the wing, Corey Brewer isn’t going to get it done on his own. They need help at either the 2 or the 3. Secondly, they also need a defensive 5— not necessarily a scorer, but a 5 nonetheless.
The problem with your scenario is that 1) Austin Daye is still a project, he’s not ready to be plugged into any lineup and immediately contribute on a night-in, night-out basis and 2) they only get one season with a center from this trade, then are back to the drawing board. The latter would be okay if they were getting an instant game changer with their primary need, a wing player.
Minnesota would be stupid to move Jefferson for anything BUT proven talent that can perform right away. My scenario gave them Rodney Stuckey, Tayshaun Prince and Kwame Brown (but try Wilcox first!) for Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions. They’d get an INSTANT game changer on offense in Rodney, who would help out Johnny Flynn a lot by taking some of the pressure away in distribution (and that Rodney has proven better playing off the ball this season). They get 2 seasons out of a vet in Prince, then an additional $12M in salary relief next season, which will help re-sign Stuckey.
Thing is, in your scenario, Minnesota is basically giving away Jefferson for cap (which they already have), and the only contract they’ll keep (Daye) is as unproven as anyone on this season’s draft class. It’s a losing scenario from Minny’s perspective.
Again, I suggest we do this:
Rodney Stuckey
Tayshaun Prince
Chris Wilcox (or Kwame, if they don’t bite)
-for-
Al Jefferson
Ramon Sessions
Then, we try to trade Rip Hamilton to the only two teams who might bite, Boston and Cleveland (in order of likelihood) for an expiring and a junk contract. In Boston’s case, they might be willing to look at that Ray Allen trade again, but this time without Rondo or Prince in the deal, just Ray Allen for Hamilton + Contract. The likelihood here is pretty much nil, as I don’t think moving Hamilton is possible.
opps...continue
It’s not like Gay can’t play the shooting guard
by JC no1 pistons fan on Jan 21, 2010 6:30 PM EST reply actions
don't give up dude...
Anything posted drives discussion. sometimes idea’s can be a little unrealistic but than we can bring the idea’s to more realistic levels and thus gain a positive discussion. The beauty behind SBNation is the user generated content. Most of the great discussion comes from Fanposts and Fanshots. Never be afraid to post an idea is what I say.
On that note: I don’t see any need for Gay on this team. We got small forwards who are playing well and we don’t need another guard. Jefferson on the other hand is a player I like and I like Mike Payne’s trade scenario more than yours because we end up with a very nice PG.
My Music: Now on last.fm!!
My Blog: Inside A Head
The only reason I would see a need for a Rudy Gay quality sf is if we had to give up Austin Daye or JJ in another deal. But I know what you’re saying. A threesome of Daye, Jerebko, and Summers at the 3 with their contracts is so so doable.
I like Sessions, but I’m also one of the few that appreciate Stuckey as our point guard. Stuckey is the last person, if I were the Joe D, that I would let go in either a trade or free agency. I’m not sure exactly what it is, but he just seems like a guy that I’d want around. I understand that he’s probably not going to be a perennial all-star, and I actually like that about him. I would love for him to be in the discussion as one of the most underrated players in the league. When we have to finally pay him, I think we’ll end up paying him a CV31 type contract, which I think is a steal. I feel like he’s more valuable than CV31 and Ben Gordon. But i don’t see him as the face of the franchise. I see him more as the sidekick to the face of the franchise, though a pretty valuable tony parkeresk sidekick.
by Roll The Dyess on Jan 22, 2010 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
I'm a huge Rudy Gay fan (another UConnection)
But I would not want to trade for him right now. His need for a new contract is concerning, even with the restricted status, because if someone strikes out on LeBron or Wade, they might get desperate and overpay Gay.
Trading for him only makes sense if we believe Jerebko’s future is as a 4/5 and not a 3/4. Then it could be justified. Because Gay is a very good player. He’d probably be the best player on our team if he joined. I’d say he’s better than a Poor Man’s Carmelo Anthony. Like a Lower Middle-Class Man’s Carmelo Anthony.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 22, 2010 2:20 AM EST reply actions
I was wondering when someone would make the UConn reference. Maybe we can go find Khalid El-Amin, too.
UConnection
Its kinda like a BCS championship rematch game.
Also, the new contract is something Joe would have to think about if he wanted to trade for him, because I can see someone trying to overpay him too. And, if i’m not mistaken, that’s one of the things Chad Ford notes as a reason for Memphis to trade him.
by Roll The Dyess on Jan 22, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Am I the only person who sees Daye as our future PF?
I dunno, I just have a hard time believing a 6’11" kid, especially once he puts on weight, is going to be playing SF for us off the bench (because JJ is obviously going to be a good starting SF) when clearly he’d be nightmarish for other teams’ PF’s to guard. I envision him as a Dirk-type. We get Gortat/defensive-minded C to put alongside him and I think we’re gold. This obviously implies that I believe CV is and should always be a 6th man, but he’s a hell of a 6th man to have. But yeah, for whatever reason, I just have this gut instinct that Daye is going to end up being the best player on our team. Like, All-NBA good. He’s just got too many tools. Legit 7’ size, huge wingspan, good defensive instincts, rebounds well, BEAUTIFUL jumpshot, 3pt range, hits his FT’s, passes well in transition, finishes well, catches up for lots of “Tayshaun blocks”— I just can’t see him, if he puts in the necessary work, not being incredible. Even if he’s lazy, he’s basically Lamar Odom. And that’s not too bad.
I'd rather see JJ play power forward...
Even if Daye puts on weight he’s still gonna be pretty damn skinny. He’s never gonna be any bigger than Tay is now.
My Music: Now on last.fm!!
My Blog: Inside A Head
speculation at best
I’m not saying he’s the next Ben Wallace, but look at how much girth Lebron, Dwight, Kevin Garnett, Rudy Gay, even Kevin Durant have put on since their rookie years. Those guys were all beanpoles, especially Garnett. I think Daye will be fine at the PF eventually. Besides, I like the mismatches that Daye at PF (more range than most PF’s can handle) and JJ at SF (more physical than most SF’s) put on the table. I suppose at that point, there’s no real point in classifying one a SF and one a PF, the only difference would be who they guard and vice/versa.
I'm 100% with you on one thing...
If the Pistons brass are dead set on forcing one of our rookies to get some minutes at PF I would much rather it be Daye than JJ.
JJ’s energy, hustle and quickness is essentially neutralized when he has to guard the post, and it makes sense to see what effects Daye’s length and shot blocking might have on opposing teams by keeping him closer to the basket on defense. Daye rebounded and blocked shots at almost the exact same rate as Sheed in college, there’s a chance that PF ends up being his more natural position.
I definitely don’t see Daye as a PF. So far, he’s played SF and SG … he has no inside presence, and he doesn’t show any flashes that he might have that capacity with the added bulk.
You’ve got a great eye for talent, Joel, you really do. But I feel like you’re premature on this one. Daye’s got some skills, for sure, but his physical development isn’t a guarantee. Anyway, I hope you’re right … I just haven’t seem him display anything that would make him a PF other than his height.
Here’s the hoopsanalyst guy’s take on Daye (first on the list).
It’s not the most optimistic projection, but looking at his college statistic comps, he could possibly develop into either a stretch PF or a tall, jump shooting wing. Either way, he definitely needs to bulk up and keep getting better at scoring inside.
I agree
There’s nothing that guarantees Daye will be physically demanding at any point in his life. Some people just don’t gave the genetics.
by Roll The Dyess on Jan 22, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Prince/1st/Bynum for Gay/Thabust/Filler
That’s probably the best I’d offer, and I’m taking a huge risk on Thabeet managing to become that defensive anchor we need. That being said, if he does, and Jerebko can grow into a 13-8 type player (which isn’t unreasonable considering he’s already 8.4 and 5.4), we’d have a damn good (and young) core of players.
Stuckey (23)
Gordon (26)
Gay (23) / Daye (21)
Jerebko (22)/Villanueva (25)
Thabeet (22)
Reminds me of the Trailblazers and THUNDER.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 22, 2010 2:45 PM EST reply actions
Actually, add in a pick swap.
We’d get back their Denver pick, and with this draft being so big heavy there’s likely a project-center we can acquire with a late first. I’d push for a swap for their pick but I doubt they’d do it.
Also, I’d add top 3 protection to our pick. We’d probably be looking at a pick 7-10 after the trade, and Memphis would probably be worse but not by much, and I don’t think moving up a handful of spots would be good enough for them to swap picks.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 22, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
So we're trading our best trade asset (prince)
For guys who don’t fill a need?
We need help at the 4 and 5. And Thabeet doesn’t count.
We could always sign-n-trade Gay this summer...
For some frontcourt help. At least, I think so. I don’t really know the rules for that shit.
No Gays on the Pistons!
We could...
But sign and trades aren’t always easy to work out. There are loopholes and exceptions and of course the whole needing a willing trade partner who’s got talent on matching contracts.
been reading for a while but finally took the plunge and joined up. dont get much nba down here in oz so i look at the box scores and then go through you game thread to get an idea of what happened.
how about a trade of prince to memphis, gay to minnesota and jefferson to the pistons plus throw in some rubish like kwame and wilcox.
i would also be happy if instead of jefferson pistons got a first rounder of each plus some role players and we go into rebuilding whole heartedly. short term pain for long term gain.
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