ESPN Insider Trade Rumor
by LionsPistonsFan on Jan 22, 2010 10:15 AM EST
Email
PrintFrom Chad Ford:
Rudy Gay, F, Grizzlies
The Grizzlies are playing their best basketball since Jerry West was the GM, so why would they mess with a good thing?
There are two reasons, according to a pair of general managers who have spoken with the Grizzlies in recent days. One, Memphis is concerned that this summer a team flush with cap space will offer Gay (who will be a restricted free agent this summer) a huge contract that Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley will be unwilling to match. Two, the team, currently at 22-19, would love to make the playoffs and believes it's a veteran defensive presence away from getting there.
While a number of teams would be interested in Gay, a rising talent at age 23, keep your eye on the Pistons. They have been hunting for the right trade in which to move Tayshaun Prince. If Prince is healthy (he has been battling back and knee injuries all season), he might fit the bill for Memphis -- and the Pistons could throw in a lottery pick from this year's draft to sweeten the deal.
Hasheem Thabeet, C, Grizzlies
Gay isn't the only player the Grizzlies would move for the right price. Thabeet is off to a slow start in his rookie season in Memphis and doesn't fit into the team's current plans. Still, he was the No. 2 pick in the draft, and he has value in the league
What if Pistons gave up Tay, Kwame, and a pick?
I think Thabeet would be an excellent pickup along with Gay. He is young and started off slow but with his size he has potential.
(Ed. note: Please remember to properly cite articles, including original links and blockquoting any cited text ... I've edited this post so you know what it looks like. -- Matt)
FanPosts are user-created posts from the Detroit Bad Boys community and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of all fans or the staff at DBB. The DBB staff reserves the right at any time to edit the contents of FanPosts as they reasonably see fit.
24 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
If its Tayshaun for Gay straight up, I’d be okay with it. But no draft pick, that’s just going to slow down the rebuilding process.
Thabeet I wouldn’t touch with Bea Arthur’s pogo stick.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jan 22, 2010 11:09 AM EST reply actions
If the pick isn’t involved and we can guarantee he will resign, I say we do it. The pick, however, is too valuable in my mind. We could get Cousins, Favors, or Motiejunas depending on how we finish the season. Or we could get lucky and snag the first pick in the lottery and end up with f’ing John Wall. This is going to be a good draft, especially for big men. Thabeet would be lucky to go top 10 in the draft this year, so I’d rather take my chances with the draft.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Jan 22, 2010 11:26 AM EST reply actions
If Joe trades Tayshuan for Rudy Gay
I will track him down and back-hand him with a leather glove, “betta have my money” style.
Joe. If you can’t move Tayshaun for talent where this roster is weak, don’t move him at all. Even if Rudy Gay appears to be an upgrade over Tayshaun, that doesn’t justify the move when we have glaring holes in our roster and Tay is our only semi-attractive trade asset.
Sure, go ahead and add another small forward. Maybe while you’re at it, clear up some cap space and see if we can sign another shooting guard to an $11M/year contract. I hear Michael Redd is available.
by Mike Payne on Jan 22, 2010 12:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
See, here's my issue.
We’re in rebuilding phase. We can all agree to this, right?
If you have a chance to upgrade your assets, you do it. Period. Forget about fit right now, because the concern isn’t with winning games now, but obtaining enough assets so that you can assemble a championship team at a later point. Gay is a clear upgrade, both as a player and as an asset, compared to Prince. 6 years younger, can provide more, no worries about health right now. If you sign him to a reasonable enough contract, he’s a much, much better asset than Prince’s expiring contract could ever be.
Think about it this way: if we can parlay Prince into Gay/filler and keep him under a seasonable contract ($9-11 million a season), what’s going to be more appetizing to the Minnesota Timberwolves:
Stuckey/Prince for Jefferson
or
Stuckey/Gay for Jefferson
It’s why I was so pissed about the Afflalo trade. We gave up a valuable asset attempting to fill a need. Hell, even if we picked up one of the better options (maybe Frye), I still would hate the trade because Afflalo was still a better asset to use in a trade.
Allowing Prince to expire for nothing simply isn’t an option with a lowering salary cap, and ESPECIALLY if we can’t find a taker for Rip. If you can parlay Prince into a better, more tradeable asset, you damn well better do it. You worry about fit when you’re actually ready to compete for something.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 22, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
If you have a chance to upgrade your assets, you do it. Period.
No. you don’t. A lateral position trade for Prince should be the third option, at best.
1. Trade for talent where the roster is weak.
2. Hold contract until it expires.
3. Trade for a lateral position upgrade.
1. If we can swing Tayshaun for an improvement at the 4 or 5, pull the trigger. Potential options are for players like Al Jefferson, Chris Kaman (likely wouldn’t happen until next season), Andris Biedrins, Deandre Jordan, Emeka Okafor, Marcin Gortat, Samuel Dalembert, Fesenko/Koufos— all of these are in varying levels of likelihood. But players like these should be targets far ahead of a lateral position upgrade.
2. If we cannot get a player from that list or otherwise, we hold on to Tay and let him expire. His $12M (plus Wilcox, Stuckey, etc) might give us enough cap room (based on the shrinking cap) to target one of my two favorite players in the 2011 market, both of whom are unrestricted. 1) Marc Gasol. 2) Carl Landry.
3. Trade for a lateral position upgrade. And you do that only if it fits the roster. However, since our roster features Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva on the long term, adding Rudy Gay to that list could single-handedly push us into “worst defensive team of the decade” candidacy.
Allowing Prince to expire for nothing simply isn’t an option with a lowering salary cap
I’d love to see your math on this, but I’ve noticed a pattern that there isn’t math behind many of your claims.
Detroit has $37M in combined salaries on the books going into 2011-12. It’s safe to go ahead and assume we’ll have another $5M on there with the team options on Austin Daye and this year’s draft pick (Daye’s is just under $2M). so that’s $42M. The cap will likely be between $50.4 million and $53.6 going into 2011. That leaves us with $8.4M to $11.6M to spend on free agents before extending Rodney Stuckey, as we can go over the cap to extend him.
Last:
If you can parlay Prince into a better, more tradeable asset, you damn well better do it. You worry about fit when you’re actually ready to compete for something.
Rudy Gay expires this season, with $3.28M coming off the books. Your logic only works if Detroit has a chance at extending him. It’s likely that Rudy Gay will fetch a contract between $8M and $10M, if not more, in this year’s free agency. Is Detroit going to go OVER the cap to pay that (the only way we could afford him is to go over the cap), and if so, by how much?
And by your logic, since Rudy Gay will certainly be overpaid this summer, how does that make Rudy Gay “a better, more tradeable asset”?
There is no way possible for us to win by trading Tayshaun Prince for Rudy Gay. In fact, it sets us back because it assumes a) that we’ll be overpaying to retain Gay in a position that we do not have a roster need, and b) takes on a SECOND contract to make the trade work that will prevent us from having free agent money to spend in 2011, a better free agent market for middling spenders.
If you have a chance to upgrade your assets, you do it. Period.
Sure, if you’re a GM who doesn’t think things through.
Additionally
Good luck to anyone who can make a trade work between Detroit and Memphis:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Since Detroit has 14 on the roster, the most Detroit could take back is one more than we send. If we send just Tay, we have to take back two players. There is no combination of players on their squad that could make that work.
If we send 2, we can take back 3. If we send Tay + Bynum, for example, they might be able to make that work. However, the only way Memphis could make that work is to send 2 of the following 5 players along with Rudy Gay:
Mike Conley $3.8M
Marc Gasol $3.3M
S. Hunter $3.7M
H.Thabeet $4.4M
O.J. Mayo $4.2M
You can immediately cut O.J. Mayo from that list. So it comes down to 2 of 4. Would Memphis include Mike Conley or Marc Gasol, 2 more of their starters? Doubtful. Thus, the only trade that would really work would be Hunter, Thabeet and Gay for Prince and Bynum. For reasons mentioned above, I’d only take this trade if it included Gasol and Gay, and Memphis would be nuts to consider that.
I agree with
both MP and TJL.
Gay makes absolutely no sense what so ever for all the reasons MP stated.
But, TJL is also correct that just letting Prince walk would be foolish.
We have about $39M commited to 5 players (if we pick up Daye’s option) for 2011/2012. Five players! OK, so will have a couple draft picks. Let’s say we have $42M committed to 7 players. Leaving us that $8 to $12M to spend on at least 6 players.
In addition, you cannot sign other free agents up the cap then resign your own free agents and go over the cap. It is not allowed. Stuckey has a qualifying offer for about $3.9M for 2011/2012. So, to retain our rights to him we would have about $4 to $8M to spend on at least 5 players. If you average 4 and 8 you get roughly a MLE.
Letting Tay walk makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. We have to get something for him. I say aim for young, promising players rather than proven players with large contracts. It’s not like we’re one piece away from anything.
Detroit's committed salary in 2011.
If we pick up Daye’s option (which we will more than likely), Detroit is looking at $38.5 million committed to 5 players in 2011.
That does not include the following:
(2010)
2010 draft picks
Possible extensions to Brown, Wallace or Bynum
2010 Free Agent signings
(2011)
2011 draft picks
Extensions to Summers, Wilcox, or Jerebko
2011 free agents
The likelihood we have any manuevering for free agents is 0%, not unless we trade all our draft picks, don’t sign a single player to more than a one year deal in 2010, and ensure that we enter the 2011 offseason with only those 5 under contract. Not to mention we’d have to renounce Stuckey’s bird rights/not extend a qualifying offer in order to have that capspace, otherwise Stuckey will have a cap hold. I don’t know the exact amount, but it would likely cut our capspace by another $4 million or more. And depending on the salary cap, you’re probably looking at less than $10 million to negotiate with.
The truth is that we’ll likely have a top draft pick. Let’s estimate it’s 6th (I’ll be pessimistic here). Last year’s 6th pick, Johnny Flynn, will be making $3.1 million his second season. We’ll use that as a basis for our 2010 draft pick, and we’ll assume he’s not trade for a future pick or absolutely nothing, so he’s on our roster (and if it’s DeMarcus Cousins, he’s dominating, too). We’ll use Stuckey’s $3.8 million qualifying offer as his cap hold, because I don’t know how to calculate it off hand.
So, we keep our pick, neither Bynum, Brown, or Wallace get extensions, and whoever we sign over 2010 to fill out our roster is only signed for one season. So we’ll have:
$38.5 million committed to 5 players: Hamilton, Villanueva, Gordon, Maxiell, and Daye if his option is picked up)
$3.1 million committed to our 2010 draft pick.
$3.8 million cap hold to keep Stuckey’s rights while we sign other players
Total salary for 7 players in 2011? $45.4 million in committed salaries.
This doesn’t include the caphold from whatever draft pick we get in 2011.
So we have very little wiggle room to sign anyone in 2011 if we just let Prince walk. Letting Prince walk is absolutely not an option.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 27, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and while we’re at it, this analysis should solidify without question how bad the Rip extension + BG signing actually was. Either one on its own = iffy. Put them together, disaster.
We’re in handcuffs, unless we can get out from one of those deals.
I like being in handcuffs.
Regardless, according to ESPN Insider (sweet!), we’re actively shopping Rip before the deadline and throughout the summer if no one bites.
Now, if they want Prince AND our pick.
Then they’re going to have to send us some big man compensation. Probably couldn’t get Gasol, but they would definitely have to give up Thabeet.
But if we could get Gay without giving up the pick, we just upgraded our assets by a whole lot. Gay, Stuckey, the pick, those are very good assets to have.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jan 22, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
What would it take to get Marc Gasol?
I’d literally trade any combination of Rip/Tay/BG/CV/MFWB plus whatever extras for him. And remember those Z-Bo rumors from a couple years back? Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but if the “incredible winning culture” in Memphis can get him to do a complete turnaround, imagine what he could’ve done if he’d come to Detroit, especially given that we were a much better team and were only missing a low-post scorer when these talks were happening. Sadness, sadness, sadness.
Marc Gasol
is an unrestricted free agent next season. All the more reason to hang on to Prince’s $12M expiring contract instead of trading him for a slight upgrade at a position where we have blossoming depth in Jerebko and Daye.
wasn't there a post about a Rudy Gay trade already?
and anyways no to a Gay trade.
My Music: Now on last.fm!!
My Blog: Inside A Head
the following works
gay + thabeet + steven hunter + hamed haddadi
for
tayshaun + either wilcox or kwame
…from the perspective of the grizz, hunter and haddadi are not even playing, and thabeet is a project at this point, so by swapping thabeet for kwame or wilcox, the above trade would actually improve their terrifyingly thin bench…especially if they asked the pistons to include MFWB (the money works)
so if the pistons include MFWB, the grizz—with playoff aspirations this year—would upgrade their bench at PG and up front, while replacing gay (who they are probably going to lose this offseason anyway).
I think it all depends on how much the grizz like thabeet, and whether or not they would demand the piston’s first-round pick in this year’s draft.
True...
But it did come from the coach, not the front office.
Also I’d like to note that there was never any way that the Grizzlies would trade Rudy Gay and Hasheem Thabeet for Tayshaun Prince and cap space. The Grizzlies don’t need cap-space any longer, they are both under the cap, likely to remain under the lux tax for several years, and playing well.
There is no reason to dump talent for trash contracts like Kwame and Wilcox because Rudy Gay is the best player in FA that will even consider Memphis, and they already have his Bird Rights and RFA status.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Jan 26, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Detroit Bad Boys
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
