Three-Way Trizade Scenario: Hamilton to Charlotte
by Mike Payne on Dec 1, 2010 1:17 AM EST
Email
PrintCharlotte is having a tough time at the two guard, as Stephen Jackson isn't working well with Larry Brown and the depth behind him is short at best. Jackson will face a one game suspension tomorrow (Wednesday) for a recent ejection, and he's been far less than apologetic about his problems with referees and how they're effecting his team. Larry Brown said today:
"I don't know how things are going to change," Brown told The Charlotte Observer. "I understand from his perspective what's going on, but that's the way it is: As hard as it is for a player to understand that, you've got to play through (emotion).
Sure, Hamilton has faced two ejections this season, but it's not a problem for Detroit when he is backed up by Ben Gordon. The crux of the following trade idea is that Hamilton might be welcomed by Larry Brown, and might treat a new role on a new team with a renewed sense of importance. Detroit should have no interest in Stephen Jackson, so a three-way trade may help Charlotte resolve its problems with Jackson, it might help a third partner add veteran talent at the 2 (where depth isn't a problem) and it could bring an expiring deal back to Detroit. Here's how it could work:
Detroit: Richard Hamilton to Charlotte for Samuel Dalembert from Sacramento
Charlotte: Stephen Jackson and DaSagana Diop to Sacramento for Richard Hamilton from Detroit
Sacramento: Samuel Dalembert to Detroit for Stephen Jackson and DaSagana Diop from Charlotte
ESPN Trade Machine Results: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=335lqoy
The crux of this trade is based on the chemistry problems of Stephen Jackson in Charlotte, and the assumption that Larry Brown would welcome the return of Richard Hamilton to his roster and playbook. Both Hamilton and Jackson have issues with technical fouls and ejections, but it's fair to assume that playing for Larry Brown again would have a positive impact on Rip's demeanor and production.
Sacramento has a need for a veteran talent on the wing, a player who can swap between the 2 and the 3 and make things work with Evans at the point. Jackson's salary isn't too hard to swallow, and depsite his problems in Indiana he's shown that he can be an effective voice as a captain for a young team through his performance in Oakland. It could be a boon for the Kings, and replacing Dalembert with a starting Cousins or Thompson with Diop off the bench would make for a smooth transition from their current situation. Furthermore, Diop expires next season, and is owed just over $6M when his contract ends.
Detroit, obviously, gets out of Hamilton's contract. There are few scenarios where a team might welcome Hamilton and his contract, and without Larry Brown there's not way Charlotte does this deal. Chances are slim to none even with Brown, but it's not like the Bobcats wouldn't take a day or two to think about it. Last, Detroit's addition of Dalembert could help turn a team around that is in dire need of rebounding, shot blocking and defense at the 5, as the Benaissance is fading like the Pazzi Conspiracy is at his doorstep.
This trade doesn't make Detroit a winner, but there aren't any likely trades that could. It helps resolve our tough contractual obligations and brings in an underrated player that can immediately help our frontcourt (not to mention his expiring deal). We may need to involve picks or young talent to get it done, but this is the situation Dumars has gotten this team into and sacrifices must be made.
Why wouldn't Charlotte and Sacramento get in bed with a team like Atlanta instead, who has $10M expiring with Jamal Crawford? First, Sacramento needs a veteran wing player who they can build around, and there's no guarantee Crawford won't just bolt after the end of the season for a potential winner. They would essentially be moving an expiring deal for an expiring deal in that case. Jackson gives them a few years to build something consistent, and the salary obligations with Jack are not overbearing. Charlotte could just send Jackson to Atlanta for Crawford straight up, but the point is that Atlanta needs cap relief, so that wouldn't work. With these players involved, a three-team trade works best. But again, the entire rationale revolves around the history between Larry Brown and Rip Hamilton, and the fact that Stephen Jackson is not working with the system Brown is hoping to develop for the Bobcats.
What say you?
FanPosts are user-created posts from the Detroit Bad Boys community and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of all fans or the staff at DBB. The DBB staff reserves the right at any time to edit the contents of FanPosts as they reasonably see fit.
32 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
additional note
picks and/or rookie contracts would likely involve options at the 2 for charlotte to help shore up their depth.
For Jonas!!
at this point, I'd do anything to get rid of Rip
and getting an expiring Dalembert would be amazing.
Charlotte definitely seems like it’d be the hitch in this deal, but, like you said, maybe throwing in more could sweeten the pot. FWIW – adding Wilcox’s expiring or Maxiell’s 2 yrs/$5 million allows this deal to still work and gives Charlotte a little more depth up front so they don’t have to rely more heavily on Nazr Muhammed or Kwame Brown, even though Diop only sees 10 mpg as it is. Wilcox’s expiring could be very intriguing to CLT because they already have roughly $18 million coming off the books for next season – Wilcox would put them up over $20M (if I’m reading their contracts right).
As for Rip, a fresh start in CLT could legitimately make him more pleasant. He’d be the go-to SG again, and wouldn’t have to look over his shoulder at the younger bloods like Gordon, Daye and even Stuckey anymore. Augustin is more of a pure PG who can dish him the rock a la vintage Chauncey and he’s obviously familiar with LB.
Question — if Charlotte doesn’t want to do your scenario and, even if they did, the Kings didn’t want Cpt. Jack adding to the Controversy, why not Dalembert for Rip & Wilcox? It works on the trade machine, too.
why not Dalembert for Rip & Wilcox? It works on the trade machine, too.
Good thoughts, Brother Packey. I don’t think SAC would take on Rip’s salary, age and production, I’m not confident that any team in the league would unless they a) have a vet SG who isn’t happy and b) have Larry Brown coaching. I’m basing this trade on both of those points, because Charlotte may be better off without Jackson and Brown might be eager for a return to a partnership with Hamilton. As I mentioned, take Brown out of the equation— I don’t see this trade happening at all. Brown and Jackson are the keys to making this happen, and a third team must be involved to make it beneficial for all parties.
For Jonas!!
Rip and Jackson aren’t too far off from each other. Rip’s only two months older than Jackson, so age isn’t really an issue (although Rip has more experience under his belt). His production is down this year, but in years past the two are fairly similar, and possibly tilted toward Rip. I think Rip’s production will benefit from a fresh start, too.
The contract, as you said, is definitely the big issue — Rip is $4.1M more than Jackson. Wilcox’s expiring could help offset some of that & then you could consider how much Sac might value Rip not causing as much trouble as Jackson potentially could. In the end, I don’t think the contract would be as crippling as it seems it is for the Pistons.
Then again, upon further review, the Kings currently have a guy in Francisco Garcia putting up almost identical numbers as Rip is this year, at three years younger and more than 1/2 the price.
I definitely think your proposal makes more sense, but I’ve just kind of been thinking out loud if Sac might consider a two-team deal with Detroit. You helped clear me up, though.
I don’t think the contract would be as crippling as it seems it is for the Pistons.
Not as it seems, as it IS
Agreed...and while Rip may be a complainer,
he’s certainly never had anywhere near the chemistry/acting out issues that Jackson has had throughout his career. For a young team that is already controversial and seems to be moving more and more towards a second coming of the jailblazers (maybe a bit pre-emptive but Tyreke goin 130 is a good start), adding a guy like Jackson is pretty much playing with fire.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I think any trade that frees us from Rip’s contract is a good trade at this point. We need to just face facts and realize there is not magic trade out there that is going to turn us into championship contenders tomorrow. We’re going to have to deconstruct a little in order to build back up.
I had a similar scenario that I was putting together (offline) and getting ready to present here involving New Orleans and Peja, but then Peja got traded. So the hours of work spread out over a few days I put into gathering all my info and presenting my logic went down the toilet.
Anything that gets us out from under the weight of Rip’s contract, I’m for.
However, I’ve heard roomers that Sac wants to move Tyreke to the SG position. This trade pretty much locks him into PG for a couple years.
Couldn’t you run Udrih/Evans/Jackson/Thompson/Cousins though? I guess the biggest issue would be defense.
by Biz Markie Moon on Dec 1, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
And do what with Rip? Seems unlikely they’d dump a talented big an an expiring deal for an old SG with lots of money left to be paid. Just epinion.
Substitutions
This trade also works with these substitutions for Sacramento and Dalembert:
New Jersey/Troy Murphy (expiring)
Cleveland/Jamison (2 years)
Phoenix/Richardson and send Wilcox and Carroll to Phoenix instead of Diop. (expiring)
These were the only other teams I could see wanting/needing Jackson where he’d actually fit in decently. Rip still goes to Charlotte, we get expiring deals or at least a shorter one for a bigger player in Jamison. Thoughts?
Bonne Chance
MJ dealt Rip originally, and generally has been fleeced by Dumars in every transaction they’ve done. He’s not going to get fleeced again, almost no matter what Dumars offers him.
You have a better chance dealing Tay to Sac for Jason Thompson and whatever.
just Vpinion
The Nazr deal really doesn't look too bad in retrospect for MJ
He’s been productive for them. I know I’d take him back in a heartbeat.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
MJ dealt Rip originally, and generally has been fleeced by Dumars in every transaction they’ve done. He’s not going to get fleeced again, almost no matter what Dumars offers him.
Declarative statements without an objective base don’t make for productive conversation.
For Jonas!!
Well....
Rip for Stack was pretty close to a hijacking, and dealing Nazr for Primoz and Walter was almost as bad, in terms of actual playing ability and cap value. you can certainly argue Nazr didn’t play to his contract value ($6M/yr).
Walter was a fan favorite of course, but I don’t think many of you understand how close he was to being a serviceable NBA player. Dude was just a half-step too slow, and that’s a killer, especially on D.
This objective enough for you?
just Vpinion
by V. on Dec 2, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think many of you understand how close he was to being a serviceable NBA player
I was on that wagon early and often with Walter.
This objective enough for you?
I’m fully aware that Joe owns the Dumars/Jordan trade history with some definite wins. That’s not my point.
He’s not going to get fleeced again, almost no matter what Dumars offers him.
That’s the declarative that isn’t objectively founded. I don’t think that trading with Charlotte is off the table just because Joe has won some trades in the past. Jordan may have his guard up, but not to the point that we should just go ahead and just dismiss every trade idea that comes along with Charlotte.
For Jonas!!
I'd go after Troy Murphy if I were Dumars
NJ doesn’t have any use for him with Lopez, Humphries (who is quietly beasting), and Favors. He’s redundant, and I’d like to think they could use Rip or Tay, what with Travis Outlaw being Travis Outlaw, and Terrence Williams being a total dunce.
That being said, Dalembert! Want!
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
In my concept, Sacramento isn’t the main player, per se. Rip to Charlotte is the crux of the concept, and I’d be thrilled if NJ were the alternate partner to make a three team deal. If it’s Murphy instead of Dalembert, I’m in. There are plenty of teams that might deal for Jackson, and it is in that belief that a trade of Hamilton to Charlotte to return to Brown might make a three team deal work.
For Jonas!!
(who is quietly beasting),
© Tim Duncan 1997-2010
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
by Skylar on Dec 2, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
how bout rip for diaw and najera? both of their contracts expire after next year. the pistons could throw in second rounders and/or cash as needed.
they gotta do something—I was able to watch last night’s game (I live in the heat viewing area) and it was a total disaster.
They really need to get rid of Diaw
Tyrus Thomas is producing like an all-star, and they’re barely playing him 20 minutes a game, while playing Diaw 35(!!!) mpg. Because when you can start Boris Diaw over the guy who’s averaging a 20/10 with 2 steals and 3 blocks per 36, and leads your team in D-rating, WS/48, and PER, and is second in O-rating and TS%, you have to do it.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Dec 2, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Another option:
Hamilton and Mo Evans (ATL) to Charlotte
Diop and Jamal Crawford (ATL) to Detroit
Jackson and Maxiell to Atlanta
We definitely downgrade at both positions we give up, but Crawford is expiring and Diop has the same number of years as Max, though 1.4 more overall.
Crawford
is a huge upgrade over Hamilton given our roster needs. Good 3-point shooter compared to Hamilton, much better with the ball, and gets to the rime occasionally.
Okay, huge is overstating it.
Okay...again I'll play buzzkill.
As much as the Kings don’t wish to trade Cousins, they are also trying to hold onto their cap space until the new CBA arrives next summer. The Maloof’s have been adamant that they won’t just spend the space to spend it, and that includes, I think, taking a contract like Jackson’s that has money on it after 2011. Plus you factor in that Stephen Jackson is a grade A prime asshole and a player they aren’t interested in pairing with Tyreke Evans with so many chemistry issues already, I don’t see how there is any enticing idea to bring Stephen Jackson around.
Jackson’s salary isn’t too hard to swallow, and depsite his problems in Indiana he’s shown that he can be an effective voice as a captain for a young team through his performance in Oakland.
The Kings also got a firsthand observation at how disruptive “Captain Jack” was in his last days in Oakland. I’m quite sure they don’t want any part of his mouthing off with Cousins on the team. It would be making a difficult situation worse.
Frankly, I don’t see the Kings doing any deal that doesn’t include a short term contract like Tayshaun Prince, Chauncey Billups and comes up with a young player or two in a deal (namely Greene, Casspi or Thompson and the use of cap space for this season. There just isn’t any desire to make a deal because the team is struggling and the fanbase is manic at the moment.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And...Is This What A Grade A Asshole Produces?
just Vpinion
by V. on Dec 3, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome.
Yeah Stephen Jackson might be worth that much.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Detroit Bad Boys
Related FanShots on Detroit Bad Boys
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
