Joe D's last chance, UPDATE: Joe D full of crap
by tads on Dec 14, 2010 11:02 PM EST
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PrintThis seems to me the last chance for Joe D. I feel like I will be a big fan for a long time, but if he doesn't do anything right now, he's basically asking the next owner to fire him. I'm ready for something to happen like a kid ready to open presents on Christmas. This quote seems relevant...
"My thing is, after three years of that, in pro sports, this is not high school, this is not college, in pro sports you don’t have these opportunities all the time. Three straight years of losing in exactly the same way to me, was enough. I’d seen enough of that. We’re having to constantly fight contentment and make that an issue and, secondly, I need to see a burning desire from everybody that we need to win at all costs and when I didn’t see that this year, it was time to make a change."
-Joe Dumars June 11, 2008
We did not see that change 3 years ago, instead we saw three years of losing in ever worsening ways, ways that made this red panda angry.
This could be your chance to make good on that promise of no "Sacred Cows" press conference which preceded the quote above. Or this is the could be the official end of the "Joe Dumars Era" and the slow painful growth that follows. Your choice, DO IT JOD!
Update: The quote above is from a Piston.com interview here: http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/dumars_080611.html
Joe D Full of Crap Update:
I was expecting to hear phrases from Joe D directly contradicting himself before I personally jumped off the bandwagon, but I was surprised to see it happen so soon, or for Langlois to be the one to make it happen. Go to the fine gentlemen over at Piston Powered for the whole story, but, Joe D "Intentionally overstated" the chance of a trade.
Remember that story about the two trades that Dumars mentioned with Matt Dery? Langlois asked Dumars about it at the end of the audio. Langlois asks Dumars if there is nothing, and Dumars says "No, there's nothing". Todd3 also posted about this story over at Real GM's forum.
Langlois: Let me ask you some background stuff here. Um, I saw with Matt Dery, you said you were, you had some conversations, is there any players I should be…
Dumars: I talked to Matt after. I said, “Matt, you’ve got everybody asking me like, ‘You’ve got something imminent?’ ” What he asked me, you know, I’m, like, “Yeah, I’m talking, Matt, but you know, but am I close? I don’t know. Teams say, ‘Hey, you know, we kind of like that, you know.’ ”
Langlois: So there’s nothing?
Dumars: No, there’s nothing.
On a personal note, I am very disappointed about this because of what it says about Joe D as a person. For the guy who is known around the league to have the most class (he has a friggin sportsmanship trophy), it is really disconcerting to see him doing stuff that is slimy, low class, and manipulative towards the fans. Well, let me check myself. Professional sports are a dirty game, and I'm sure GM's do some dirty tricks, with media manipulation probably being one of the least important. This is different. It is disconcerting to see this stuff happen while we are so insanely bad.
The fact that Joe D is defending our horrid peformance and making up stories about trades to keep heat off of his back is indefensible. How can you sit and nothing while this crap is going on, and have the nerve to lie about it. Right now he has something other than winning as his main priority, and for that he should go. I'm not sure if he is protecting the players, or he's protecting the owners, or maybe Tom Wilson called in a favor to make the Pistons suck so revenue figures tank, but I don't really care. I have always been a big Joe D fan (just got done defending him, actually). I still hope (naively) for an amazing trade before February. After he discovering his primary redeeming quality to be called in to question so blatantly, I'm ready for the Dumarsnera of Piston management to be over.
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I´m afraid Joe D. isn´t allowed to do any major trades until the ownership situation is settled. I don´t expect any action before this, and I don´t know if it´s fair to blame this (entirely) on Dumars.
The only bad decison aside from the “Iverson Experiment” was the Hamilton extension, which was really moronic. I guess he just felt he owed Rip this.
Creating cap space one year before the big free agent market seemed to be the safe move, given the uncertainty. And we wouldn´t have gotten James, Wade or Bosh anyway. Maybe Lee. I´m quite happy with 2010/2011 Charlie, and a bit disappointed with Gordon, at the moment. But I am certain that as soon as he gets more and constant minutes, his performance will dramatically improve. Even given his offensive struggles, he hustles, gets rebounds and shares the ball.
As for the immolation of the sacred Billups cow, I´m not sure we could have pulled it of like Boston is continuing to do it. If we could have gotten the Benaissance sooner, maybe, I´m not sure. And maybe I just got to much of the Langlois Kool-Aid.
But you´re right, losing sucks, 3 years of losing even more.
Good thing is, Tay and Rip are beginning to producing consistent.
At least for Tay we should get anything decent, as soon as the new owner gives the go.
Not sure we can con anybody in taking Rips contract, though.
HEY!
That’s an excellent quote, tads, and I might steal it.
On the one hand, it’s reasonable to think that the ownership situation is prohibiting trades.
On the other hand, it would seem reasonable that if Joe could find a way to cut long-term salary commitments, that would actually make the team easier to sell.
Who knows?
Go for it, it came from this
http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/dumars_080611.html
I’ll add a link in the main post.
Well the only real long-term salary commitments we have are Rip, Maxiell, and MFWB, and I don’t think the market on any of those guys is too high right now. The issue with getting rid of any of these three would be that we’d have to give up an expiring (i.e. Tayshaun) along with them to get anyone productive, and that would only add salary.
Personally I’m hoping the group that won the Qatar 2022 bid for the World Cup or any new owner for that matter shows more than just a passing interest and is willing to spend on the team if they buy it. Hopefully this gets resolved soon, I want to see some of Joe D’s talks come to fruition and see if he has any semblance of a plan or if he’s really lost it.
Wait, what?
by Uncommon Sense on Dec 15, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
You seem to be forgetting Gordon/CV
Considering those guys are our longest-term contracts.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Dec 15, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t really forget them, I sorta mentioned contracts that we’d Want gone immediately and in the short term, but I didn’t explicitly point that out so that’s my fault. I don’t really see us trading Ben Gordon AND Rip, for me a big reason to get rid of Rip would be to see what BG’s got in big minutes and go from there.
As for CV, I’d keep his contract for now seeing as he’s signed for about the same money as Amir Johnson and he’s clearly outplaying him, unless I’m misinformed.
Wait, what?
by Uncommon Sense on Dec 15, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
So, uh, did we get anyone awesome, or what?
by garrettelliott on Dec 15, 2010 10:25 PM EST reply actions
I tried this trade, but the salaries didn’t match up!
by -PS- on Dec 16, 2010 12:21 AM EST reply actions 10 recs
Dear JOD,
Your ineptitude bores me. I hope you get back to work once the team is sold.
Signed,
A red panda
by -PS- on Dec 19, 2010 1:34 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
hey, at least he didn't trade Ben Wallace for Brian Scalabrine.
he didn’t.
Fire CJ and trade Schwartz lol
by spicymchaggis on Dec 12, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply Star Unrec? 1
Is it sad that Dumars is becoming a sad parody of himself?
At the very least, you could never question his integrity. The guy was one of the most stand-up players in the league, and was the same once he left. I understand the GMs have their little tricks and I’m sure that Dumars wasn’t any different, yet I feel like at the very least you felt he was honest with us (if frustrating), but to be so blatant.
I just have a hard time accepting the idea that Dumars has done a completely 180 in terms of personality. My father had the luxury of talking one on one with Dumars (he even confided a funny story about Dumars’ mother-in-law), was one of the nicest, friendliest guys he ever met (by contrast, Bill Laimbeer tried to get my dad kicked out twice).
I really, wally want to believe that Karen Davidson is blackmailing pressuring him into this sort of stuff, cause if he’s willingly doing it, I lose a lot of respect for him.
Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...
by Trout Jefferson on Dec 19, 2010 4:45 PM EST reply actions
The pressure is probably business as usual
Upper management in mergers, buyouts and the like are often sign contracts at the beginning phases of the sale where they agree to stay with the firm while the sale is processed. I know because my friend worked for the weather channel as a dept. manager and when they announced that they were going to get bought by NBC he had to sign this contract where he agreed to stay with the company and keep business as usual for the few months or so required and then afterwards he was guaranteed $10,000.
I bet last year when Davidson died the lawyers gave a similar contract to Dumars to assure that he maintains the team until the end of the sale. For the amount of money and responsibility that Joe D is responsible for, I get the feeling he would be guaranteed a great deal of money, I also imagine there would be tight restrictions on his actions (e.g. no speaking of the sale, no altering long term contracts, etc.).
That said, I still don’t understand why Joe D needs to feel pressured to lie. KD may tell him what not to do, but surely she is not telling him to manipulate the media.
You guys are all wayyyyyy too short-sighted to see where Dumars is going with all of this...
How can you expect Dumars to make blockbuster trades resulting in championships every time when every GM out there would ultimately come to expect this and subsequently opt to trade their players elsewhere?
In order for Dumars to set up his next GREAT trade, he’s had to lull the respective GM community into a false sense of security by executing numerous abhorrent trades and acquisitions. By trading Billups away for Iverson, extending Rip Hamilton, extending Jason Maxiell, spending all avaialble cap space on 2 guys who have played the majority of their careers as 6th men, and drafting nothing but long, smooth, strokes, the GM community is now completely certain that any trade they make with Dumars will be a fleecing.
Just give it 2 or 3 more really big bad trades before he makes the one that gets us back to contention…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Dec 20, 2010 4:55 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
FUCK YES! POST-APOCALYPTIC ZOMBIE INFESTED BASKETBALL FTW!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Dec 20, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe I'm missing something...
but why exactly would there be a hold up on making a trade? I understand Kunt Davidson doesn’t want to take on any more money, but it’s not like they’ll take on a significant increase in any scenario. That’s the whole point of the salary cap under the current CBA. You have to get the salaries to match up within whatever percentage it is. In fact, JOD could orchestrate a salary dump (Rip for Curry) and start TRULY rebuilding already.
All the time relaxed.
NY would never do that
Trade away their shot at Melo when they knew he wants to come over just to have Rip Hamilton? Don’t think so
The one thing that does elude me though is the logic that taking on salary is a terrible thing. If the team starts winning at a high clip again, the palace will quickly fill up, which will bring in more enough revenue to compensate for the additional costs
I have decided to start a career in rap under the presumptuous name of Dextrorotatory Glucose. However, you may call me "D-Sugar" for short
by bearded thundar on Dec 20, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
very creative nickname for Karen Davidson
and by “creative” I mean “retarded”. This is for you:
For Jonas!!
JoD should learn from this guy
I have decided to start a career in rap under the presumptuous name of Dextrorotatory Glucose. However, you may call me "D-Sugar" for short
by bearded thundar on Dec 21, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
just to be clear
I didn’t notice the context of the situation, I thought MP was making fun of KD, not slamming Supa Dupe
I have decided to start a career in rap under the presumptuous name of Dextrorotatory Glucose. However, you may call me "D-Sugar" for short
by bearded thundar on Dec 21, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I'm Not A Karen Davidson Fan...
..but Mike, that’s out of bounds.
just Vpinion
by V. on Dec 22, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Mike, You're A Mod Here
..and thus have the power to remove the comment. I don’t believe Mrs. Davidson has too many fans here, but the comment truly is beneath the standards of what I expect to see from the community here.
Capisce?
just Vpinion
by V. on Dec 23, 2010 6:08 AM EST up reply actions
the community self-moderates here
hence the long string of comments telling Supa Dupe he’s in the wrong, including my own.
I may have the power to remove the comment, but you have the power to flag a comment as inappropriate. If a comment gets x number of inappropriate flags, it generally gets removed. In situations of pure hate speech, porn, etc, I’ll cut it right away, but this one was borderline to the point that the community here did their own moderating— basically telling dude he’s being an asshole. That’s how it has worked on DBB for many years in these types of situations.
For Jonas!!
by Mike Payne on Dec 23, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Fair Enough
I’d remove it myself, but whatever works for you as a moderator, i’ll certainly respect.
just Vpinion
by V. on Dec 23, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
referring to someone as a "cunt" even if misspelled is incredibly inappropriate.
I’ll give a red panda to redundancy, general stupidity, or similar. But I will not promote you to their level. Have a good day sir/madame.
Signed,
The mad part of my name.
Between this and your Detroit Jihads comment, I’m pretty sure you’re an asshole.
by Biz Markie Moon on Dec 21, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
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