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Morning Shootaround: Pistons Keeping Playoff Faith; Villanueva Day-to-Day with Back Spasms; and is the NBA Heading Toward a Long Lockout?

G'morning, DBB'ers.  Today seems a little brighter than yesterday, what with the Pistons playing the Nets tonight and the players keeping their spirits high (at least in front of the media).

In NBA action last night, Kobe scored 44 in a losing effort to the surprising Grizzlies.  Former-'ston, Arron Afflalo hit a huge bucket in OT to help the Carmelo-less Nuggets defeat the Kings.  Chauncey was big, too, but was just 6-25 shooting.  And Deron Williams had 15 dimes in Utah's win over the Mavs.

There are some interesting links today that should spur discussion.  Have at it until one of us brings you the game thread this evening.

FanHouse Report: Owners Seek to Cut NBA Salaries By 20 Percent
Dave Dial MLIVE Report: NBA appears to be heading toward a long lockout 
MLIVE The Detroit Pistons are capable of a quick turnaround, similar to the 2000-2001 team 
Detroit News Pistons keeping the playoff faith
MLIVE Pistons' playoff chances unrealistic, no matter what they're saying 
Detroit Free Press Don't be shocked if Jonas Jerebko stays in starting lineup
Pistons Point Pistons' Point: Villanueva day-to-day with back spasms
Pistons Nation Big Ben on the cusp of history
How to Watch Sports LeBron James' Foul Issue: A Rebuttal (to what BrGulker posted in the FanShots)
Piston Powered Jonas Jerebko breaks out in yet another moral victory, actual loss for the stuck-in-reverse Detroit Pistons
Detroit4lyfe Rudy Gay Accidentally Hits the X Button Too Soon
Ball Don't Lie Video: Leandro Barbosa makes a mean Na'vi
SB Nation Kobe Bryant: Celtics 'Didn't Want Any Part Of This Crazy (Expletive)' 

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I still love that Swede...

and Big Ben just continues to make me proud that he got that Pistons uni on.

That’s all I want to say about this team right cause I’m gonna just keep on looking at the positives.

by madpoopz on Feb 2, 2010 8:38 AM CST reply actions  

Potential Lockout

This is purely personal opinion.

I think NBA players are grossly overpaid. After all, it’s a game. Even guys at the end of the bench make more in a year than a lot of people make in a lifetime.

I’d be all for lowering player salaries if it translates into cheaper tickets and merchandise for fans. Make the game affordable and put it in its proper perspective socially and economically.

However, I sincerely doubt that this is the intention of the owners. I suspect that lower salaries have very little to do with any of that and rather have to do with greater profit margins for owners.

When I was a kid, the baseball strike happened. I don’t really know why, but I got angry at baseball. I was a huge Tigers fan before the strike, but since the strike, I haven’t watched a complete game of baseball. It soured me on the entire sport.

Now, I love basketball and the Pistons more than I ever loved baseball, but an extended lockout could sour me again. Players and owners need to get a grip on reality — they, their children, and grandchildren are financially set for life because of a game. Put the greed to rest on both sides, please.

by brgulker on Feb 2, 2010 9:32 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

That MLive article comparing the current roster to the 2001 Pistons is a fun read, but incredibly off.

The reason the comparison doesn’t work at all is actually explicitly stated in the article: the 2001 team had a lot of financial flexibility and it had a young Ben Wallace. So, Jod had the ability to add better players where needed, and he already had Big Ben, who would turn out to be the best defensive player of the decade. Those were the two keys to our quick turnaround. Our current roster is full of highly paid players, limiting future flexibility, and, though I wish they did; young Ben Wallace’s don’t grow on trees.

by Gabe F-B on Feb 2, 2010 9:50 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Yessir. I really like Full Court Press. This article seems to miss the obvious, though.

by brgulker on Feb 2, 2010 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, MLive has by far the best basketball coverage of the Detroit papers, or whatever they are now. It’s kinda shocking how terrible the sports coverage in general is when I go to detnews or freep.

by Gabe F-B on Feb 2, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

The only writers in the Detroit MSM that I read are Wojo (the best columnist in the region) and Angelique Chengelis because she’s pretty plugged in at Michigan.

Everybody else sucks.

by Other Matt on Feb 2, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I think they may lockout.

The NFL owners are looking to shave 20% off of their player salaries as well after next season, so Gulkamania, you may wanna reconsider getting back into baseball.

"I’ve had to overcome a lot of diversity." — Drew Gooden

by Skylar on Feb 2, 2010 10:40 AM CST reply actions  

The owners are playing with fire.

Apparently the NBA owners’ theory is that their players “don’t save money” and therefore won’t be able to survive a work stoppage. That may be true, but if it’s false, the NBA is at risk, because long lockouts can be disastrous for a league.

by -PS- on Feb 2, 2010 10:50 AM CST reply actions  

Apparently the NBA owners’ theory is that their players "don’t save money"

Ah yes, the Andrew Bogut Theory

"But that’s where it stops for me," he says. "I’m not into jewelry. I’ve got some earrings but they’re not too expensive. There are guys who drop a hundred grand for a chain. The public’s got it right – a lot of NBA stars are arrogant and like to spend lots of money and have lots of girlfriends and all that…"

"I’ve had to overcome a lot of diversity." — Drew Gooden

by Skylar on Feb 2, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

I hear you, brgulker, ...

…when you say that both the owners and the players may be motivated by greed. But the owners are trying to cut their losses on huge investments in the midst of recession; I understand why they have to spend less. And the players are trying to maximize their earnings and prepare for (in most cases) four or more decades of semi-retirement, where most will never be able to earn anything approaching their current NBA salaries.

Given the way the NBA determines total player salaries as a percentage of league revenues, zero-sum thinking is inevitable from both sides of the dispute. Neither side will be pleased unless the other side gets screwed.

by -PS- on Feb 2, 2010 10:57 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah, I know

At the end of the day, both sides gotta look out for themselves. I would hope that if I were an NBA player, I’d be willing to play for less than a lot of guys, but to be completely honest, I can’t say that I wouldn’t try to get as much as I could … I’m as human as anyone else.

On the retirement issue, maybe the league or owners need to start contracting/hiring retirement and/or financial planners to help players understand their huge but short earning capacity.

by brgulker on Feb 2, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

“On the retirement issue, maybe the league or owners need to start contracting/hiring retirement and/or financial planners to help players understand their huge but short earning capacity.”

Now that’s a great idea. If they don’t do that already, they should really look into it.

by garrettelliott on Feb 2, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

a final thought

Could an impending lockout ensure that the Pistons stay in Detroit?

I can’t imagine that a prospective investor would buy the Pistons, separate from the Palace, with a work stoppage on the horizon. The Palace could generate revenue during a lockout—perhaps even more revenue than usual, with the schedule cleared of basketball games.

Additionally, the possibility of a lockout might lower the market price of a Pistons+Palace sale, since one of the assets would be non-performing for a stretch of time.

by -PS- on Feb 2, 2010 11:04 AM CST reply actions  

Michigan has been in a recession state for years

yet if the Pistons are putting out an exciting, watchable, attendable product, people will come to see them. The only thing as I see it that would force a move would be further drops in ticket sales to home games.

Dan I rec’d

"I’ve had to overcome a lot of diversity." — Drew Gooden

by Skylar on Feb 2, 2010 11:58 AM CST reply actions  

The players make easier targets...

… but the owners make more than they do. I never understood why people rant and rave about the salaries for professional athletes. If you take the money away from the athlete, it just goes in the pocket of the owner instead. So instead of 4-5 multimillionaire’s, you’re talking about one hundred-millionaire or likely Billionaire. Why is the owner a more sympathetic party?

If the owners want a bigger slice, I don’t have a problem with it. However, let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that the owners will necessarily turn around and cut prices to pass those savings onto the consumer. That’s a possibility, but I put it in the same category as Congress rescinding laws. Once you give them something, the chances of getting it back are slim to none.

by Big Z in Orlando on Feb 2, 2010 12:15 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

I know your comment was a general comment and not directed toward me specifically, but what if I rephrased my opening comments with something like,

Our society, collectively, overvalues and wrongly prioritizes the importance of sports …

Does that make my position any more clear? I think both the owners and athletes are looking out for themselves, and I hear your points and agree.

But at the end of the day, I think it’s rather absurd that athletes and owners should make as much money as they do — basketball is a game. Know what I mean?

by brgulker on Feb 2, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

the players should receive a fair slice of the pie.

the revenues are generated by the players, not the owner. if you give the owners most of the money it will just be a crock like the ncaa which generates tons of money on the backs of young athletes.

i agree that salaries are absurd but given the money thats being made it seems fair.

one solution that is interesting is that instead of a base salary perhaps the players could be payed a percentage of revenues generated.

by dandresden on Feb 2, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I hear you, Dan, er dan.

I don’t think it would be just to give the owners more of the revenue that the players generate. I see your point, and I agree.

My problem is that in general, our society grossly overvalues sports. Player salaries are a reflection of that, I think.

Gosh, I don’t mean to be on a soapbox. I’ll give it a rest.

by brgulker on Feb 2, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

If you're going to make that argument

then I would say that society overvalues entertainment in general. I have less of a problem with professional athletes who work their asses off making 5-20 million dollars a year then I do with the Friends actors making a million dollars an episode.

by Trysdor on Feb 2, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Interesting idea

“one solution that is interesting is that instead of a base salary perhaps the players could be payed a percentage of revenues generated.” That would indeed solve a lot of problems, except that no one would know what the revenues were generated for the year until the end of the season. Players would not be able to get paid or even know how much they were going to make until the end of the year.

by bugman222 on Feb 2, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

the revenues are generated by the players, not the owner. if you give the owners most of the money it will just be a crock like the ncaa which generates tons of money on the backs of young athletes.

i agree that salaries are absurd but given the money thats being made it seems fair.

rec’d for truth.

Something else to consider: while some teams are doing insanely well, there are others doing only so-so. This is where revenue sharing comes into play. I highly, highly recommend this article by Tom Ziller.

by Matt W on Feb 3, 2010 12:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Very good article. Personally, the Clippers and the Knicks (and to some extent the post-Jordan Bulls) are the reasons why I’m pessimistic. If the problem is overall spending, then bring spending down proportionately across the board. But if Stern forces the players into accepting a system where teams don’t have to win to turn a profit, then you’re inviting more and more teams to do what the Clippers do. Which, ultimately sucks for everyone, and IMO almost guarantees a slow, but steady decrease in fan interest in the league

by Gabe F-B on Feb 3, 2010 1:38 AM CST up reply actions  

meant to say, “turn a big profit,” not just “turn a profit.”

by Gabe F-B on Feb 3, 2010 1:40 AM CST up reply actions  

It’s too bad they just couldn’t take all the current numbers and reduce them by 25% or something. Players’ salaries, ticket prices, owners’ revenue, everything. Just bring the whole shebang down a notch. I know it’s not that simple, but it would be nice if it was.

by garrettelliott on Feb 2, 2010 12:52 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

I agree that this makes the most sense, which unfortunately means it will never, ever happen.

IMO, it’s totally backwards to bring the players percentage of league revenue down. As other people have already said, the only reason the league makes any money at all is because of the players.

The work environment I would compare the NBA to is Hollywood, and blockbuster movies. Movie producers make a killing if they put all the pieces together for a successful movie (good directors, big stars, etc…), and ultimately, if butts are put into seats.

The formula for a profitable NBA team has never been much of a secret- put together a winning team and people will pay for tickets. Put together a shitty team, people will spend their money elsewhere.

If Darth Stern and the league creates a system where the incentives for winning are reduced, which is what would happen if a hard cap is implemented, then the NBA will essentially be signing its own death warrant.

by Gabe F-B on Feb 2, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

the whole thing is based on demand

players are paid so much because consumers are willing to pay 50 bucks to go see a game. if you think players are overpaid, your best way of lowering their incomes is to stop supporting the NBA. stop watching, that brings down advertising revenues, that hurts owners, owners can’t pay their players as much.

but that’s a bad idea.

i want to watch good basketball, and the best way to find talented players is to show them they can make money playing the sport for a living. the more players are paid, the higher the incentive for young ballers to keep practicing and getting better in the hopes of making it pro.

the same argument goes for owners though. if you think the owners are making too much money, you’re ignoring the fact that they own the teams as a business venture. if teams didn’t make money, there wouldn’t be a reason to own them. other than pride, i suppose

by the89oracle on Feb 2, 2010 2:53 PM CST reply actions  

Also regarding demand...

…one of the reasons the NBA can be so fun to watch is the athletic ability of the players. Many NBA players, especially those who were born in the States, could have pursued professional careers in another sport. I’m sure that the guaranteed contracts and relatively higher salaries offered by the NBA have influenced more than a few athletes to choose basketball. That dynamic could change significantly under a new labor agreement.

by -PS- on Feb 2, 2010 4:08 PM CST reply actions  


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