Iverson trade vs. T-Mac trade
by the89oracle on Feb 24, 2010 7:41 PM EST
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PrintTracy McGrady and his 23 million dollar expiring contract cost the Knicks Larry Hughes, Jared Jeffries, last year's lottery pick Jordan Hill, the right to swap 1st round draft picks in 2011, and their 2012 1st round pick.
Last year, the Pistons received Allen Iverson and his 21 million dollar expiring contract for Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyess, who we all know later returned to the Pistons.
I'm not going to argue the merits of what we did with that cap space as opposed to what New York will attempt to do with theirs, but I do think there's something worth noting, here. We essentially gave up Chauncey, who we all love, but should also all be able to admit was declining in Detroit before his rejuvenation in Denver for a 21 million dollar expiring contract.
For a similarly sized expiring contract, New York had to give up arguably its best guard (also his expiring 13 million dollar contract), its best defensive player (who they did want to dump thanks to his salary next year), and 3 1st round picks from last year to 2012. They have also already given up their first round draft pick this year, 2010, in a prior trade.
I'm willing to concede that Dumars has made several mistakes, but I think that trade, perhaps not what he did with the space, but the trade itself, was a very shrewd move. He received the opportunity to pursue any free agent he wanted that off-season without so much as giving up a second round pick.
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Two minor points of disagreement.
First, Larry Hughes was in the doghouse. He wasn’t their best guard. He was making a lot of money, but his impact in NY was minimal.
Second, the CB trade itself looks a lot worse if Dyess stays with Denver for two reasons. First, he propels Denver into legitimate contender last season. Second, he helped us immensely last season — we’re not a playoff team without him last year, IME. We remember that trade more fondly because Dyess did what he did.
+1
I agree. Jordan Hill was never the guy that the Knicks wanted in last year’s draft. They were after Rubio or Curry and ended up drafting Hill. Jeffries is a nice defensive stopper, but I’d throw him away on a flyer for McGrady any day of the week, especially when D’Antoni’s teams don’t play D anyway. Hughes wasn’t playing in NY at all, he was basically the Keith Van Horn in this deal.
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by handsomerob1 on Feb 26, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
picking nits
but, the nuggs, imo, were legit contenders last year, considering their playing in the wcf’s, with or w/o Dyse.
Being in the doghouse doesn’t mean you’re not talented. Nate Rob was in the doghouse for a few weeks as well, and I think most would agree he was better than Duhon. When Hughes was getting minutes in the offense, he was a reliable facilitator and at least an average defender, which is more than can be said about Duhon or Robinson.
If McDyess doesn’t resign with our team last year, it helps denver and hurts us in the season, but doesn’t negate the fact that, in assests given up to achieve cap space, we gave up very little compared to what NY gave up for the right to dump a rookie contract and one more year of Jeffries.
We didn't give up "very little"
Even if Chauncey was declining, he was still a top 10 point guard in the league who would be able to further help Stuckey’s development, and we knew what we had in Dyess. Plus there’s the fan backlash to worry about. A lot of people were upset over this deal.
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by handsomerob1 on Feb 26, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
very little IN COMPARISON
a fringe all star guard with maybe 3-4 years left in his career compared to 3 first round picks? even though the knicks didn’t consider anyone they gave up a part of their long term plan, that’s a lot of value.
by the89oracle on Feb 26, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Your point stands, I think
We gave up less than NY, which is your point as I read it.
I was just picking some nits, is all.
like one of the announcers on the Denver vs. LA game said today
“you;ve gotta have Chauncey as your starting point gaurd on the All-Decade team.”
“the guy just wins”
need I quote anymore?
Larry Hughes = Not good in years
Isn’t Sacramento just buying him out? The Knicks gave up lots of first round draft picks but if they’re successful in landing two max contract players this season then they’re really just giving up late first rounders. Now I’m not saying there isn’t value to be had there, but those picks are much more valuable to Houston if the Knicks fail to sign the max contract players they’re going after.
And with Lebron recently filing a request to change his number from 23 to 6, one can read into that in a number of ways but you don’t have to register for a number change if you change teams. One could infer that this means Lebron is staying put in Cleveland.
Can the Knicks land Wade? Maybe.
The biggest failure of the Billups trade IMO (btw, is IME supposed to be in my epinion? is this an inside joke or is it actually commonly used these days?) was JoD’s failure to recognize the leadership and stability that Billups brought to the locker room. For that reason alone, it would have been worth it to retain Billups and trade one of our other key pieces (or a package of).
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
One more thing
The level of talent that you imply when referencing Hughes as their best shooting guard and Jeffries as their best defender is still relative to the teaam they’re playing on. And that is a 20 win Knicks team. Chauncey was our best guard and Dyess our best bench player and we were a 6 time ECF team. That is a HUGE disparity in the comparison.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
At the same time, Dyess is probably the 3rd big on most teams. Jared Jeffries is 3rd or 4th. That’s a virtual wash. All that’s left are the remaining pieces.
Chauncey Billups is the starter for any team he plays on, but if you asked me if i’d rather give up an aging Chauncey by himself, or a backup PG and my 3 first round picks for the next year, I’d rather give up the aging Chauncey. 3 first round picks is a huge price, that’s my only point with this post. I’m applauding Joe D. for negotiating his way into a straight up deal, and not including any picks.
Consider Baron Davis right now. A couple years ago everyone considered BD and Chauncey to be fairly similar. If the clippers want to dump BD now, they’re sure as heck going to have to give up a lot of talent or picks to get rid of his contract.
I wonder how the Knicks feel about that trade now
Especially since they failed to get LeBron, lost 2 lottery picks for no apparent gain, in our opinion downgraded from Lee to Amare (though they got Randolph to make up for it) and now we got their prized Tmac for the vets minimum
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 9:42 PM EDT reply actions
Regrets
I guess almost every team has regrets about stupid moves they’ve made that they’d take back in a heartbeat if they could. At least with the Billups trade there is still some potential upside for us if Monroe becomes a good pro and CV and BG produce. I guess the Knicks just have to hope they get Melo next year and Paul the year after. I’m still not convinced that Amare is an improvement over David Lee. He’s certainly not a better defender or rebounder!
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