Time to find silver linings: Clippers 97, Pistons 91
These days, Pistons fans face an uncomfortable dilemma: with the playoffs all but officially out of the picture, is it actually acceptable to root for the team to lose?
After all, the quickest way to transform this roster from an odd-ball collection of also-rans and almost-weres is to add a franchise player via the draft, and as enjoyable as a late-season surge toward the playoffs might be now, the long-term health of this franchise directly hinges on the number of lottery balls it owns come May.
So what's a loyal fan to do?
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, but regardless of how you feel about it, we should all agree that more games like Wednesday's against the Clippers will make the rest of this season more enjoyable.
Wait a minute, you say. What's so fun about a six-point loss? The Pistons had this game in the palm of their hand, taking control in the first quarter and holding onto into the fourth. And even if they finished on a sour note, allowing the Clippers to close the gap for good on a 37-22 run, the Pistons actually held the lead with fewer than 30 seconds left in the game.
In fact, with fewer than eight seconds left in the game Rip Hamilton nearly had a chance to tie it -- he was fouled on a three-point attempt that was quite literally halfway through the hoop before it rattled out, which, had it gone in, would have set the stage for a four-point play. Instead, the ball popped out, and Hamilton, who connected on 51 consecutive free throws before missing in the second quarter, proceeded to clang three in a row.
Game, set, match.
Go figure, it happens. The late-game collapse was frustrating but not surprising, not with Detroit's veterans logging heavy minutes on both ends of a back-to-back.
But more importantly, Pistons fans (or at least those who stayed up to watch the 10:30 PM ET tip-off) got the chance to be entertained for three quarters and change before ultimately watching the team fall on the sword for the greater good of the franchise.
OK, that's not entirely accurate; I don't suspect for a minute the players on the court give a damn about lottery balls, but the fact remains they lost. And in a battle for lottery balls against a team that Detroit very well may be jockeying for position with in the standings, the loser is actually the winner.
I don't want to root for the Pistons to lose in part because I don't want to watch bad basketball, but if I can walk away from a game that featured three and a half enjoyable quarters and a potential game-winner that fell just short, well, at least it doesn't feel like my entire evening was wasted.
Kicks in the gut are the new pats on the back. Good job, fellas. You'll get 'em tomorr-- er, next year.
Last but not least, actual thoughts on the game ...
• As well as Tayshaun Prince's line looks in the box score (17 points, 10 rebounds), the fact remains that he was on the court for every minute of the fourth when his man, Rasual Butler, lit the Pistons up for 12 points, including three 3-pointers. Prince finished with 38 minutes on the night and is averaging 35.4 for the month. Austin Daye, meanwhile, played just six minutes. That, my friends, is just stupid.
• Hamilton finished with 21 points but needed 21 shots and eight free-throw attempts to make it happen. As previously mentioned, his streak of consecutive free throws was snapped at 51 in the second quarter; he finished the game a perplexing 2-8. When you're in the groove, you can't miss. Once you get out of the groove, you can't make a shot to save your life. That's just how it goes.
• From Steve Perrin of Clips Nation:
The Pistons are paying $16.5M this season, and $96M over five seasons, to two guys who played a combined 36 minutes tonight - and they signed Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva this summer. It's not like they got a couple good years out of them and then they declined. The contract is starting out as a disaster - we'll have to invent new words for how bad it will be a couple of years from now. Gordon didn't make a shot or score a point. Those contracts are going to doom the Pistons to mediocrity for 3 or 4 seasons at least.
Sigh.
• Few media outlets do X's and O's better than Kevin Arnovitz's ClipperBlog -- his recap doesn't disappoint.
• Jason Maxiell was awesome -- 14 points (7-9 FG) and eight boards (five offensive) in 22 minutes off the bench. More like that, please.
• What did I miss? Leave your thoughts in the comments.
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Giving up 30+ fourth quarters on consecutive nights
Pistons players not used to the time difference yet?
Oh, and MP, I read through the game thread and while I appreciate the shout out re Ohio in general, don’t worry: I was born and raised in Michigan, went to U-M law school, and my wife was born and raised in Michigan too. So I’m definitely on the Michigan side of things in my heart. I mean, Toledo is practically in Michigan anyway. . . .
Didn't we trade toledo for the entire UP?
Stupid Ohio.
Sorry to see us lose this one after a nice first half. Especially frustrated to see another dismal fourth quarter on the defensive side of the ball. Other than Prince, was there a primary culprit?
Those contracts are going to doom the Pistons to mediocrity for 3 or 4 seasons at least.
Thanks, Joe.
Kuester resting him
after the ankle tweak last night? Only plausible reason I can think of.
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by handsomerob1 on Feb 25, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Very sound policy.
Now isn’t the time to exacerbate an injury like that.
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
Maxiell is playing like that guy who earned a bunch of money a while ago.
And I don’t want to root for the team to lose, but I DO want to root for the young guys to get a lot of minutes. Whether they win or lose is irrelevant to me at this point — they just need time to play, get experience, get confidence, and get better. I say play the young guns and whatever happens, happens (probably losses, but that’s okay).
by garrettelliott on Feb 25, 2010 8:51 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
From the Simmons article
Not sure how many of you read this after Kevin linked it in the game thread OP yesterday, but this was funny:
It’s about Rasheed Wallace — a guy who quit on his team last season, then showed up for this one with 34Cs and love handles — roping the Celtics into a $20 million, three-year deal that will cost Boston twice that money in luxury tax penalties.
I’m not sure Simmons knows how bras work. Rasheed would probably be more like 48C.
by TDP on Feb 25, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was funny
But, in general, I thought the article was pretty stupid. His thesis boiled down to: GM’s are so stupid, we should create price controls and have a play-in tournament. Riiighht.
Ha, yeah, I thought it was humorous as well, but not much else. However, I do think that he raises a good point regarding how the fans get screwed, regardless of what happens.
Seriously? You KNOW that play in tournament would be the most exciting two weeks of the season.
I thought that was an incredible idea. Especially if you give all non-playoff teams an equal chance in the lottery, the tournament would effectively end both tanking and the selling off of vets to contenders for pennies on the dollar all in one fell swoop.
So just eff the regular season, then? I mean, it’s an intriguing thought. Why not just do a March-Madness-style tournament? All 30 teams (plus two D-League teams?) in a one-loss tournament. Take that, college.
How does a small tournament for the 7-8 eff the regular season? Teams have a huge incentive to finish in the top 6, because a good team could easily be toppled in a short tournament.
Exactly.
Teams would only be playing for the right to get murdered by the #1 and #2 seeds anyhow, so it really doesn’t affect the top 6 teams in each conference at all, and since this is all assuming the lottery is equal odds for all non-playoff teams, there truly is no incentive to tank and every incentive to keep valuable vets around instead of just giftwrapping them for the Spurs/Lakers/Celts/etc. I see literally no flaws personally.
There's still plenty of reason to Tank
See my post below, but I don’t see how the tournament itself changes the incentives. The equal weighting thing probably would, as Brgulker says.
Even so...
Let’s say a couple really shitty teams do tank— the teams that want to be there are still going to play their nuts off to get into the big dance, and regardless, it’s still got to be more interesting than the typical last 2 weeks of the season for bad teams.
Defintely more interesting
But why would teams play harder to make the playoffs just because of the tournament?
Maybe they had high hopes coming into the season but started off poorly, then came on strong at the end? Kind of the opposite of us last season. How many times is there some 48-win team in the Western conference that should be in the playoffs but isn’t, and a 35-win team in the Eastern conference that is? It would more accurately separate the wheat from the chaff at the end of the season.
Agreed
That’s probably the biggest argument in favor of it. We’d all much rather have the west’s near misses than some sub 500 jv squad from the east. But a 48 win team isn’t tanking anyway, so I still don’t see how it changes the tanking incentives. Love the idea the more and more you sell it, still hate Simmon’s hyperbole that it will do anything re: tanking.
Did Bill Simmons write that headline for you?
Seriously. No offense, but that sentence makes me wonder if you’re his ghostwriter.
Anyways, I don’t have a problem with play-in idea. It would definitely be exciting for fans;, I’m just not so optimistic that it will magically solve all the problems he mentions.
So, imagine that we had this tournament this year and the Pistons won the privilege to get swept by the Cavs in the first round. I’m assuming that you still don’t get any lottery balls if you win the EAH tournament. I’m not really down for tanking (even this season when we probably should) so I’d be rooting for us to defy the odds. It would be EAH, fo sho. However, in the long term I think we’d be in a worse position. If we make the playoffs in the current system, we’d have at least won around half our games (AKA – be relatively decent). In the EAH system, however, we could make the playoffs and miss out on a lottery pick after a 25 win season. Therefore, wouldn’t we still want to tank?
And how hard is it to lose 2 games? Play CV 30+ minutes, Let BG run the point for part of the 4th, give Rip more ball-handling responsibilities, limit JJ and Ben’s minutes slightly. Voila, two virtually guaranteed loses w/o being obvious.
It might work better if you gave the 7th and 8th seeds equal chances in the lottery, but I’m not sure we want 18 teams in the lottery.
Also, I don’t see anyone defending his price control idea. I think the guys kind of a nit wit. A funny nitwit, but a nitwit all the same. I’m down for the EAH tourney for entertainment reasons, but I don’t think it will solve any of the structural problems.
EAH Tournament aside
Giving every team that doesn’t make the playoffs an equal chance in the lottery may mitigate tanking. As I understand the structure right now, you can’t get a pick that’s three positions lower than your final record. Get rid of that and put an equal number of ping pong balls in a machine, and teams have less incentive to tank and/or trade quality players for nothing.
Problem is, the lottery is currently weighted so as to contribute to competitive balance. It’s obviously not always working (or maybe not at all), but at least the league can say that it’s designed to.
I agree
I almost included some of that in my post – but I was already rambling long enough. I would consider the equal weighting idea, but it clearly has trade-offs. Namely, it would make it more difficult for the worst teams to improve. I’m not necessarily convinced that the current system actually works anyways, so I could probably be convinced. My main beef is that he throws out these half-baked ideas that range from stupid to intriguing and then says, no WAY this doesn’t have a chance!!!
Namely, it would make it more difficult for the worst teams to improve.
This is the assumption behind the current draft structure, but there’s a bad assumption one step further back, namely, that bad teams (which are usually poorly managed) will cash in on their high draft picks and pick well.
Take last year’s draft and Minnesota as a case in point. What a complete waste that was. You could give them the first pick three years in a row, and they’d probably whiff 2 out of 3 times.
Mostly agree
However, even if GM’s are prone to fucking up their choices, they’re still more likely to do well if they have higher picks than lower ones. There are simply more quality players available, so they have a greater prob. of picking someone good. I’m not sure how great that probability is, so it might not be worth the problems already being discussed (tanking, etc.).
That was a worthless reply, sorry.
There are simply more quality players available, so they have a greater prob. of picking someone good
As I see it, this depends on judging talent accurately. Take Minny last year again as an example. Their picks suggest that they think both Flynn and Rubio are better (or will become better) than Lawson. Rubio, who knows? We may never know. Flynn isn’t, and I think that’s pretty clear.
I think you’re technically right, though. And either way is going to present its own problems.
I think we mostly agree.
All I’m saying is even if you’re GM is an idiot he has a 0% chance of picking someone who has already been picked. Some picks are so easy, even Joe couldn’t f it up. But yeah, it doesn’t seem like the current system is working real well.
I'm with Joel
I’m a sucker for the underdog, so naturally, the idea that someone could run the table coming from the “play-in tournament” really intrigues me.
I think the regular season will be about as relevant as it is now — maybe even more competitive with teams battling for the 12 guaranteed spots. Also, I’d axe the bottom two teams from that EaH (Entertaining as Hell) tournament since there always seems to be a couple outliers of suck. They would have no better odds in the lottery, either.
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part of the reason the Gordon-Villenueva contracts are still solid
is that they’re still young. They’re signed through their prime. If they were signed at ages 29-30 and these would be the years that were meant to pay the most dividends that’d be one thing. But they’ll be in Detroit when Prince and Hamilton (you’d hope someone takes that contract eventually) won’t, and that’s when the true judgement happens.
That said, my guy BG is certainly in a lost season :-(
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 25, 2010 11:51 AM EST reply actions
both contracts...
are currently making us all sad.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Strike Three Mechanics
I don't know about you
but there’s no way to make either player a success now, or in the future.
Wasted money, wasted everything.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
Yeah, both a total waste
They will not get better than they are. It’s not like they’re raw big men with tons of natural physical ability who are still learning post moves or something. Villa is already highly skilled; he’s just not athletic, and he’s lethargic. Gordon has about maxed out on his physical gifts, given how small he is.
Both players are extremely limited and should be traded if it is at all possible. I would happily give them away for nothing.
Meanwhile, Chauncey had 37 points last night, 9 dimes, and 6 boards. He made 6 of 8 threes. What a champion. I’m thrilled that he continues playing like a hall of famer, but it kills me to think again how he wanted to retire a Piston.
by Bill Higgins on Feb 26, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Lord knows I hate doing it...but
Chauncey came to us when he was what 26 or 27? His career continued to improve throughout his time at Detroit and one could argue he’s playing even better this year.
Ben Wallace came to us at what 25 or 26 and he continued to improve throughout his time in Detroit.
I’m not saying that CV is all of a sudden going to be a defensive stopper or that BG will become some kind of master floor general, but players still improve on their game throughout their late 20s. I just don’t think its reflected in their core career stats as much (points, rebounds, assists, etc.). My expectation is that Ben and CV will continue to learn and as they do get more efficient and productive alongside their teammates.
That said, I think if one thing is clear its that neither one of them are committed to really improving on the defensive end which is my biggest issue with both of them.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
They’re not THAT young. Players usually peak in their mid-20’s and hold relatively constant until 30 (ish). So, yeah, they should be in their prime. But that’s also a negative, because players of their age don’t tend to make drastic improvements, either. Obviously, there are exceptions, and I hope like crazy that both of them (especially CV, he’s got so much upside) are.
the issue with Gordon isn't him improving right now
but getting him back to his norms.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 25, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Foshizzle.
Prince finished with 38 minutes on the night and is averaging 35.4 for the month. Austin Daye, meanwhile, played just six minutes. That, my friends, is just stupid.
Word
by Big Z in Orlando on Feb 25, 2010 2:53 PM EST reply actions
Gee
I guess it’s the end of the world.
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/22/34
Don’t worry, I feel fine.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
why is it so hard to motivate in basketball
Why the fuck is tanking such a problem in this league? And ONLY this league?
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
Because other leagues are differently structured?
I know it sounds like a pointless statement but think about it:
For both MLB and NFL you have a greater number of personnel for a coach to rely on so tanking a season isn’t nearly as easy. Whereas the NBA is as easy as your “superstars” coming down with an injury late in the season. Removing the impact of one or two key players (like the Heat did a few years back with Wade) has a much higher impact on an NBA team than a similar move would have in the MLB/NFL.
Plus, the risk/reward trade off is much higher in the NBA due to the lottery system.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
they're professionals, not being in a beer league negates.
sorry, i don’t accept this answer.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
"not being in a beer league"
does not compute. What are you trying to say here? That the NBA is somehow a significantly classier league than the NFL or MLB?
I don’t think its the players that are “tanking”. Its management/ownership that makes this decision…and it is much easier for management/ownership to make this impact on an NBA franchise than it is on an MLB or NFL franchise.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
It's the draft
Getting one Bona Fide Star can almost instantly turn an NBA franchise completely around. I don’t know whether that’s because in basketball, the difference between the 1-5 best players available and the 25-30 best players is so much bigger, or whether it’s because the rosters are smaller and the number of guys that play the game at one time is smaller, so one guy makes a bigger difference. But guys like Jordan, LeBron, and Wade singlehandedly made their teams respectable, and with a complimentary piece or two, got to the finals. Heck, the Spurs got a couple of top picks and parlayed that into a dynasty
Not that some GMs don’t f-up top picks, as, um, we all know. But that sort of thing pretty much never happens in the NFL, MLB or NHL.
Agreed
Look at the Lions, they suck at almost every position. Getting the #1 pick and drafting one guy isn’t going to help that.
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by handsomerob1 on Feb 26, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Couple things from last night...
1. I really like Ben Gordon. I really wish he would play well. I like CV31 too, but because he’s so nice and easygoing I lost some respect for him. He’s a little like Kwame, all the tools and none of the drive. BG though, he wants it. He works hard, he is professional, and he gets emotional and frustrated in games. He just hasn’t been able to put it together in Detroit. Seeing him trip and lose the ball out of bounds last night reminded me how much I feel for these guys when they lose, but especially for Ben.
2. I’m rooting for this team to win. I would rather have a big man picked at 10-15 with a solid team around him than a 3-4 pick with crap around him. Not only is this better for building a team and developing the player, its also better for trading Tay/BG (I am not really for trading Rip). I don’t want another long gelling period. Also, I don’t really trust Joe to pick high in the draft.
+1 for #2
I don’t trust Joe D with the high draft pick either. He’s done a nice job in the middle of the first round with Prince, Stuckey, and now Daye (hopefully). I think he can do it again this year with a fairly deep class.
Check out Detroit4Lyfe
by handsomerob1 on Feb 26, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Can BG's new name be Ollie?
Because just like Ollie from Hoosiers, he comes in off the bench and dribbles the god damn basketball off his fucking foot.
At this point in the season, I have 0 respect for Ben Gordon as a player and as a person. Not only is he NOT playing hard on either end, but he’s making the team I love worse in the process.
He fouled out last night not because he was playing Jerebko-esque defense but because he was playing matador defense (stepping aside and waving your hands as they go by you) and having to foul from behind to prevent the easy bucket.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Feb 26, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Watching Cavs vs. Celts
The amount of High-Def douchery on my screen is enough to make my corneas melt
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
by Skylar on Feb 25, 2010 10:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Comcast said no
but my brain was like YEAH
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
Kendrick Perkins is a Douche
Brought up almost 300,000 hits on Google.
The interwebs have spoken. The Perkins is a douche.
I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.
LeBron sucks
garnered 357,000
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by handsomerob1 on Feb 26, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Langlois on the draft
If you believe that the front office uses Keith Langlois’s column to manage fans’ expectations, or that Langlois has any kind of access to what happens behind the scenes, then you have lots of reasons to feel terrible about the Pistons’ draft prospects. Langlois is already talking up lousy-sounding projects. A 19-year-old Latvian big man?? Are you kidding??? Do you even REMEMBER Darko? The Pistons need guys who can play now! Like, tonight versus Denver! No more projects, please, you idiots!
Below is Langlois’s newest crap:
“If the Pistons wind up picking in the top 10 – right now, the best guess on their range would be 8-10, assuming they don’t leap into the top three and aren’t bypassed by teams with better records – who might be in play for them?
Well, you can probably count out five players – Wall, Derrick Favors, DeMarcus Cousins, Evan Turner and Al-Farouq Aminu – though, a word of caution: A scout told me recently that even when the college season ends, the draft evaluation process is still only about 60 percent complete.
There’s a pretty good chance Syracuse’s Wesley Johnson will be gone before the 8-10 range, too. But that still leaves a healthy list of big men who could be in play, including Cole Aldrich and Greg Monroe. The wild card is North Carolina’s Ed Davis, who was projected to be a top-five pick last year even though he didn’t play much on North Carolina’s NCAA title team. Davis is out with what could be a season-ending wrist injury and there’s doubt whether he’ll declare for the draft or not.
Three more big men to keep in mind: Latvia’s Donatas Motiejunas, a 19-year-old 7-footer; Marshall freshman Hassan Whiteside, a late bloomer who was lightly recruited; and Florida State’s shot-blocking Solomon Alabi."
http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons_100225_1.html
If this is what will happen if the Pistons try to win games through the rest of the season...
…then by all means, please, please, tank. For the love of God, tank! If the Pistons draft Donatas Motiejunas the 19-year-old Latvian I may seriously kill myself. I’m not kidding. Get all the razors and ropes out of my apartment, please.
by Bill Higgins on Feb 26, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
No no, tang
I hear it’s much smoother and more refreshing than kool-aid when mixed with cyanide.
I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.
Take heart...
Yes, we all know that all tall white guys from Eastern Europe are terrible NBA players. But Latvia happens to be a lot closer to Sweden than Serbia, and every single Swedish player that has ever played in this league has been totally awesome. So Motiejunas might be a good player yet…
/stereotyped
I read that too, Bill. I think Keither has zero power behind the scenes, but I do think he’s used as a mouthpiece to help tamper fans’ expectations. I mean, just look at the BS from this summer after BG and CV were signed … and look how many people bought into it, only to be incredibly disappointed.
If I’m Joe, and we finish with the 8-10 pick range, I’m doing everything I can to trade up for Cousins. The draft is far and away the best chance for us to add a quality big man, and there’s no one on the roster I wouldn’t trade (sans Ben Wallace perhaps, as a mentor, training for said big man) to get one.
Montiejunas will be sweet
But only if he’s not drafted by the Pistons.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

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