The Morning Shootaround Is Finally Healthy
by Matt W on Feb 3, 2010 5:02 AM CST
in Morning Shootaround
80 comments
• How bad have the injuries been this year? So bad that 47 games into the season, Tuesday was just the second time all season that John Kuester had his entire roster at his disposable. From Ted Kulfan of the Detroit News:
"It's going to be interesting, getting everyone back," Kuester said. "But the bottom line is, we have to start playing well."
[...] "You would hope at this stage of the year, you're adding more and more and more in regards to plays you want to use or defensive schemes," Kuester said. "But it's been like the start of training camp all over again. But it's good to get everyone back and let's see what happens."
Sadly, everyone isn't completely healthy -- Charlie Villanueva is clearly less than 100%, and Ben Gordon is still struggling with this rhythm, if not his groin injury -- but it's a start.
• Speaking of Kulfan, he has no love for the Meadowlands. DBB reader Other Matt agrees.
• Vincent Goodwill of the Detroit News talking with Ben Wallace:
When asked if he was lucky or it was a testament to being around, he said, "Both. Lucky because I've been around for a while."
Wallace, who will turn 36 in September, doesn't yet know if he'll spend his birthday preparing for another training camp, or his first year away from the game he loves. As for today, he's as healthy as he's been in years.
"Man, I'm trying to win some games," he said. "You're talking about playing another year?"
• More on Wallace, this time from MLive's Chris Iott on Wallace becoming the 17th player in league history to block 2,000 shots (and the only player on that list shorter than 6-foot-10):
"Shot blocking is not always about big guys going in and blocking shots," Wallace said. "You’ve got timing, footwork, being in the right place at the right time and being on a solid defensive team."
Wallace explained that when his teammates play good defense, it causes opposing players to take bad shots, which allows him more opportunities for blocks.
• MLive's Justin Rogers is thinking about the draft -- in particular, Evan Turner, Derrick Favors and Al-Farouq Aminu.
• Speaking of prospects, the comment section in the Adopt-a-Prospect FanPost is the gift that keeps on giving. It's a few days old, but if you haven't seen it yet, this ridiculously (and awesomely) thorough scouting report on Favors and Cole Aldrich is worth your time.
• Natalie from Need4Sheed with the pretty moving pictures from last night.
• The Pistons may not have any representatives in the All-Star game, but they do have two players on Empty the Bench's Most Consistently Inconsistent list. Yay?
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CelticsBlog relays
The report from CBS that Detroit has interest in Kendrick Perkins. Er, not really has interest in him, but the reporter feels he’d be a good fit in the D.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
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To quote Kenyon Martin watching Kwame take a jumper . . .
Oh HELL no. I don’t want that stupid angry turkey face on my team.
agreed
And Jeff at CB thinks there’s no shot they’d trade him anyway.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
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here's a laugher from the CelticsBlog comments
I’d move Perkins and Scalabrini Total Salary $7.7M and ask for Stuckey and Villanueva Total Salary $8.3M.
I think that Stuckey is the next great scoring machine to replace RA and Villanueva is a lost puppy who needs a KG for direction. Rasheed would then be the main Center force since he seems to be sleeping right now.
by BigT1942
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
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No worse...
… than some of the Piston’s-centric trade stuff that gets thrown against the wall around here.
But, yeah. Seriously?
by Big Z in Orlando on Feb 3, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Oh Christ
THIS IS WHY NOBODY LIKES THE CELTICS. JESUS GUYS, YOU HADN’T WON A CHAMPIONSHIP IN OVER TWENTY YEARS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU DESERVE DAVID STERN’S HEAD ON A PLATE BECAUSE THE T’WOLVES GAVE YOU KG OUTRIGHT.
I mean godalmighty, you can’t say the Lakers are worse because the Celtics fans have such a sense of selfenfuckingtitlement. Who CARES if you’re the winningest franchise of all time.
I need a glass of water. Beside, Stuckey has pictures of Joe Dumars having a dogfight/orgy in his basement, so you KNOW he aint’ getting traded.
by Biz Markie Moon on Feb 3, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Do Dumars dogs win their fights, is the question
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
by Skylar on Feb 3, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They do...
provided they’re trained by an elite level coach.
by Birdman84 on Feb 3, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kendrick Perkins is better than half the other asshats whose names are being thrown around here
I’d take Perk over Kaman, Dalembert, Gasol…
Perk is the closest thing to a Bad Boy as there is in the league
Don’t say that. Please, don’t say that.
Perk is an ass clown.
Saying that you’d take him above Gasol is asinine.
by Gabe F-B on Feb 3, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
If Perk were on our team...
you all would LOVE him. You’d slobber all over his brutish nuts. Boney’s spot on— he IS the closest thing to a Bad Boy in the league right now. He’s exactly what we want in a C— bruiser, rebounder, decent offensive game, great defender. No frills, he’s basically a correctly paid Okefor, with an outrageous meanstreak to boot. I hate the Celtics, but not because of Rondo or Perk (STUDS who completely embody at their positions what I want on the Pistons)— it’s the Pierce/KG/Doc triumvirate that really chaps my ass.
by The Joel on Feb 3, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm with Joel.
Perkins is effective and nasty. Good qualities in a center. And I’d trade anyone on our roster for Rondo.
I’d trade any combination of our guys for Rondo. Literally. Pick any two guys. Hell, throw in a rookie or two.
agreed
i’d do just about anything, including a romantic hawaii getaway with Joel, to get Rondo on this team.
I’m kinda shocked here. Perk really isn’t special.
He plays with a top-5 PG, a top-5 SF, top-3 PF, and Ray Allen. If there is any truth at all to players being able to influence each others games (kinda the Petey, deform the defense/stars make their teammates better arguments), then Perk is the luckiest dickhead this side of the Mississippi. And the best part, even with those teammates, he’s still not even that great. He has a turnover percentage higher than his usage percentage, which negates his high efficiency. And he pouts like a spoiled 5 year old whenever something doesn’t go his way.
Perk is the absolute definition of fake-tough. Fucking Antonio Fucking Mcdyess is tough. Ben Fucking Wallace is tough. Do those guys run their mouths and pout about shit? Hell, the fuck no they don’t. Get that Perk is nasty shit outta here.
by Gabe F-B on Feb 3, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
I’m with Gabe. Perk is only tough because he has the other Celtics around him, all acting like douches. Plus, he drops passes almost as much as Kwame.
by garrettelliott on Feb 3, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Perk > everyone over 6'9" on our roster
It’s true. Sad, yes, but true. Big Ben’s 6’9" BTW, so I covered my bases. wink
+rec
Gabe. Perk is a winner by proxy. You put him on our team, we do not improve. I’ll take 35-year-old Ben Wallace over Kendrick Fucking Perkins any day of the week. That’s both from my personal opinion and from an objective analysis statistically.
Kendrick Motorsports Perkins
looks a bigass 8th grader that moms dressed up and sent to picture day at middle school.
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
you are high
jesus christ…
you’ll take Ben Wallace over Perk??? it pains my side to have to go against Wallace to support a Celtic but…
I have to
Yes, Ben Wallace over Perk. Every objective measure shows Ben Wallace is a better player than Perk, and if you swapped those two we would have lost more games this season.
And when I made the comparison, I used objective means (see below). My opinion alone isn’t worth shit. Neither is yours, Boney.
If I’m high, so are the recorded facts of what these players have contributed this year.
Let's put it this way
Offensive rebounding numbers aside (Detroit is shooting 43% as a team, Boston is shooting 48%)
Also, Ben Wallace is averaging 1 more reb per game on a team where no one else is averaging close to 6.
Also Kendrick Perkins per 36 (OH NOES I WENT THERE) are 14 and 10, and his PPG average has consistently gone up each year and his PF has gone down each year since being in the league.
Ben Wallace does not come close to turning the ball over as much as Perk because he does not touch the ball on offense except when setting a screen. The ball is not fed to him in the post because of his propensity to get fouled even if he did attempt a shot because of his horrible FT%
I’m all for Ben Wallace but, at 35/36 he is not more valuable than a 25 year old true 6’11/7’ who will provide similar defense, rebounding while giving you 9 solid attempts on the offensive end rather than playing hot potato when dumping it into the lane like Wallace does.
Per 36, Perkins is still out-rebounded by Ben Wallace. A 35-year-old man.
Also, Ben Wallace is averaging 1 more reb per game on a team where no one else is averaging close to 6.
And Boston is the 2nd worst rebounding team in the entire league behind only Golden State. By your rationale, that makes Perkins’ rebounding numbers inflated.
Ben Wallace does not come close to turning the ball over as much as Perk because he does not touch the ball on offense except when setting a screen
See my comment below where I talk about players who constantly turn the ball over yet attempt very few shots. Perkins is one of these, even if he scores more than Ben.
I’m all for Ben Wallace but, at 35/36 he is not more valuable than a 25 year old true 6’11/7’ who will provide similar defense, rebounding while giving you 9 solid attempts on the offensive end rather than playing hot potato when dumping it into the lane like Wallace does.
I disagree, and quite firmly. My belief is that if you replaced Ben Wallace with Kendrick Perkins in this very lineup, we would lose even more games this year than we are currently. The loss in offensive rebounds, the loss in defense, the loss in the turnovers Perkins brings simply outweigh the benefits Perkins brings— a few more points per game and a whole lot more weight.
I think by talking about ages he’s saying that he’d rather have Perkins for the next several years than Wallace for the next several years. But if we’re talking this year, Big Ben FTW.
that and
the fact that Detroit is shooting 43% while Boston is shooting 5 points higher makes Ben’s offensive rebounding inflated…
Kendrick Perkins is young and has improved every year he’s been in the league and quite frankly, I’d take his post defense against any of the big name big men in the league over Wallace’s.
In this lineup, I believe the team does not win more with Perk. I never argued that. I simply argued that for the money, for his age, I’d take Perk over Wallace. Perk has never been that great of a help defender, because of his overall lack of mobility. This team needs men who are mindful of the help D.
At the end of the day, on this team Wallace is fine. If I had to build for the future or make a move, I’d take Perk and his chump change contract over any of the other names being thrown around the room here.
the fact that Detroit is shooting 43% while Boston is shooting 5 points higher makes Ben’s offensive rebounding inflated…
If this isn’t hair splitting, I do not know what is. Detroit misses 5 more shots per game than Boston does. Those 5 missed baskets allow Ben Wallace to grab nearly double the number of offensive rebounds that Kendrick Perkins does? Come on man, that’s just silly.
If you still think it’s inflated, go back to your earlier argument about help rebounding, and how Detroit’s next best rebounders are grabbing less than 6 per game. Detroit grabs 13.3 orebs per game to Boston’s 8.6. So Ben has more help rebounders around him than Perk does. By ze rationale de Boney, this would mean that Perkins offensive rebounding numbers are inflated.
25 and 35
and “nearly double” when talking about 1 or 2 makes your argument seem a lot more than it actually is… 1 or 2 you’re talking about a bounce your way and/or who gets credit for a “same” rebound between you and your PF.
Perkins grabs a higher % of offensive rebounds to his team’s overall total than Wallace does.
At the end it doesn’t really matter… give me Perk over Wallace. Age, abilities, room for improvement, FG%, efficiency, defense, length, strength.
You can have Wallace.
and "nearly double" when talking about 1 or 2 makes your argument seem a lot more than it actually is…
Ben’s 1.7 more offensive boards per game and his 1.6 less turnovers per game mean a whole hell of a lot when your average point differential is -5.1 points per game. In fact, that’s HUGE.
You can have Wallace.
And I’ll take Wallace. And when we’re selecting our next center, I hope we stay the hell away from Perkins. There are and will be better options on the market. Ben Wallace is a better option today, and the horizon will bring better options too.
Boney, you know they have numbers to account for differences in FG% and how well a team rebounds, right?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=synfJ
Perkins is putting up 9.4 ORB%, meaning for all the available offensive rebound opportunities when he’s on the floor, he’s grabbing 9.4% of them. Wallace is putting up 14.2 ORB%. It’s not even close — Wallace is a better offensive rebounder than Perk.
Perk also hasn’t really improved every year, just a little bit this year. I don’t hate Perk, and if you’re talking about building for the future, yeah, he’s viable simply because we don’t know how many more, if any, years Wallace will play beyond this year, but what you’re saying in support of him isn’t really true.
If Big Ben stays in the shape he’s in I think he might be able to play until he’s about 103.
by garrettelliott on Feb 4, 2010 7:40 AM CST up reply actions
how did that ‘e’ get there?
By the way, all-time favorite Rick Mahorn memory: My bachelor party was Game 3 of the ECF vs. Boston. We got blow out, as you recall, but afterwards went to the Post.
Mahorn owned what turned into the dance floor and was dry humping every woman in sight. I laughed so ’til I cried. James Edwards was also there, and I met both of them. Pretty fun.
With that opportunity
Did you ask them for any “elite” level dry humping techniques? I’m sure if you did they’d point to Daly being an “elite” level dry hump coach, and that’s the only way they were able to own the dance floor, and if you wanted proof, they would’ve given you his phone # to ask him personally about dry humping. ;-0
by C$ on Feb 3, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Perk was tough
before those guys came to town man… he just played on a pathetic team…
he’s always been big, he’s always been musclebound and he’s always scowled
Kendrick Perkins ran over LL's terrycloth kangol with his Jeep Wrangler.
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
Ok, I wouldn't take him over Gasol (Marc or Pau)
Marc did play good D on Kobe the other night at the end of the game… so I’m assuming since he performs the basics of basketball D (HANDS UP HANDS UP!) then I can say he’s probably a decent post defender.
Perk is a better defender tho
Honestly, Boney? I can’t tell if this is shtick or not.
Perk is obviously not better than Gasol or Kaman. Sure, he’s a hard ass and fits the Bad Boy thing.
He's a better defender than both, and is solid in the post
I’d take him over Kaman, simply because his contract is easier to swallow.
I just admitted I wouldn’t take him over Gasol.. I got carried away there
I was looking at perk's stats the other day
Perkins is 39th in the league in offensive rebounding, but tied for 3rd in turnovers amongst centers.
also
33% of Perkins attempts are jumpers. He makes 0% of them, despite leading the league in FG%. Wow.
Love the Shotblocking 101 quote by Ben Wallace
My hope is that he stays in Detroit to coach the new breed of Detroit Hellions and guides us into a new and prosperous era of defensive savagery
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
Perk is a Beast
I like Perkins (as a player). He plays good defense. He’s a good rebounder and he always makes that hook shot that he backs down for five minutes to get off.
Speaking of which, I’d be willing to bet that he can’t pass off the dribble, so I have no idea why teams don’t double him once he puts the ball on the floor. He makes that hook shot EVERY TIME so you have nothing to lose and more than likely a turnover to game.
DRAFT
Regarding Justin Rogers draft post. This is my ranking based on what little I’ve seen…
1. DeMarcus Cousins – A freak athlete for his size. NBA body. Great production. The red flags is character and a lack of commitment to defense.
2. Derrick Favors – He didn’t impress me when I saw him play, but supposedly he’s a great athlete that plays good defense.
3. Cole Aldrich – Solid Pryzbilla-like Center.
4. Ed Davis – Best case is Al Horford according to draftexpress.
Hopefully, the Pistons can get a low first round pick as well or some big men will drop to Round Two. I could see Greg Monroe, Jarvis Varnado or Larry Sanders falling to lower in the first round (or further).
Chauncey's replacing CP3 at the all-star game
An impressive 5th straight appearance.
Round of applause for Mr. Big Shot.
Statistically
Perkins is a decent rebounder, but not great by any means. His 8.3 rpg is less than even our own 35-year-old Ben Wallace.
As for passing— he only comes off with 1.1 assists per game compared to 2.5 turnovers— which is pretty insane given that he takes so few attempts per game. Guys like Brook Lopez turn the ball over as much as Perkins does, but Lopez is a top 2 option for the Nets, so he turns the ball over 2.5 times a game vs. 13.9 attempts, quite forgivable especially for a 2nd year player. Perkins, on the other hand, turns it over a LOT, and only takes 7.4 attempts per game. With that, he reminds me of other Mike Payne Favorite™ Tyson Chandler, who loves to turn the ball over constantly even though he doesn’t take any shots.
One other thing I mentioned upthread was that Perkins is pretty bad at offensive rebounding. He’s collected half as many offensive boards than Ben Wallace has this year. He’s way the hell down the list in terms of Orebs, 39th in the league. All of those lost possessions that he alone is supposed to generate can really hurt a team, especially one like the Pistons who have relied on Ben Wallace’s offensive rebounding SO MUCH this year.
Alternatively, there’s another player on the trade market who is a MUCH BETTER rebounder, better shot blocker, better ball-handler and lateral defensive player— and has $12M expiring next season, making him a great trade piece should he not work out in a Pistons uniform. But we’ve all discussed this player ad nauseum all season long… It’s just interesting to hear people lust after Perkins when this guy is a step up in terms of what a Center is supposed to be doing…
Dalembert
If we get a post scorer in the draft (like my boy Cousins), then I think Dalembert would be awesome, but with everybody talking about how we need more front court scoring even with V-Nuv, Dalembert isn’t what I’d want, but then again, you’ve stats. I don’t.
by Biz Markie Moon on Feb 3, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
I still like your Gasol idea
Looking at what Memphis is going to have on the books in terms of reupping young players, they may be forced to let Gasol walk …
I don’t like dumping salary for cap space this summer, but I’m intrigued by the possibility of doing it for summer 2011.
Dalambert fits both scenarios well. And $12 million on him can’t be worse than $12 million on Gordon.
I think Memphis will be just fine
They have $25 million off the books with Randolph and Jaric alone. They won’t need to extend Mayo or Thabeet until 2012 and 2013, respectively, and Mike Conley isn’t even worth the qualifying offer they’ll be forced to tender next summer (thus preventing them from needing to open the check book any further).
Bidding against Memphis for Marc Gasol would 1) be possible only if we added a second big expiring contract (dalembert, but in addition to retaining Prince), and 2) may prove too costly as the market for marc could be overvalued.
If a trade involving Hamilton (or kwame, maxiell + contract) brought us Dalembert, we’d be in a great position to bring in Gasol (or failing that, Landry).
In short, I don’t think Memphis will have any reason to let Gasol walk, and few teams will have the kind of money needed to pull that off, Detroit not currently among them.
Are you sure they’ll let Randolph go over Gasol? I’m not. If they retain Randolph at a high price, then they have to decide between Gasol and the rest of the guys you just mentioned. Memphis has never been one to overspend either … I could see them sigining Randolph and then retaining those others guys and being content with mediocrity.
But, that’s pure speculation on my part, and I could be completely wrong.
Memphis MGMT is super high on Gasol.
If I had to lay a wager, it’d be that they keep Gasol over Randolph.
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
and it makes the mgmt look waaaay smarter for trading pau.
by C$ on Feb 4, 2010 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
z key
OT:
I’m pretty sure I’ve hit my “z” key more since DBB 2.0 began than I have in my entire life prior.
by brgulker on Feb 3, 2010 4:02 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I’ve actually started pressing Z on other forums where it doesn’t actually work.
by garrettelliott on Feb 3, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Could we get Jawai?
Take a shot at a guy that can’t be any worse than Kwame?
I get the feeling he and Minnesota might be partial to a trade.
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