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Around SBN: The Worst Team Ever Projected?

Breaking the Jinx: Jazz @ Pistons

Utah Jazz at Detroit Pistons, Mar 10, 2010 7:30 PM EST


Game Tips at 7:30 EST on NBA TV

Detroit Pistons: 22-41 (15-17 home)

Utah Jazz: 41-22 (16-14 Road)

Oppo Research

For five years the Jazz have been the bane of the Pistons' existence.  In spite of numerous close calls, including three OT losses and two more losses of two points or fewer, Utah has managed to foil Detroit squads both big and small. 

How have they done it? Blind luck.  Small sample size.  Recent mediocrity aside, there is no reason to believe that the Jazz are particularly well suited to emerge victorious. 

That said, Utah is healthy, dangerous, and red hot.  The team ranks 2nd in John Hollinger's power rankings.  They have also been less foul-prone and more offensively efficient (shooting 49% from the field as a team) than usual. 

The Drama

Detroit ended it's losing streak on Sunday against the Rockets.  Can they end their losing streak against Utah.   

Keys for Detroit

Stay alert -- The Jazz are +16.6 in the second half of their last five games.  Clearly, they are feeling some fresh legs, so it will be important for Coach Kuester to keep the team from melting down, which has been a problem in this matchup

Let Bynum run the point --  We need Stuckey back, but Bynum is the best pure point on the team, and Detroit can take advantage.   

Play Daye - Part of keeping fresh legs on the court means avoiding the temptation to keep the top of the rotation in the game.

Question of the Game

Has Maxiell been eating babies again? He seems to have found his mojo over the last few games, which shouldn't surprise anyone.

Valuable Links

Caught in a funk? Go to SLC Dunk.

Comment 202 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Has anyone heard any updates on Ben's status?

I heard a rumor that the injury was worse than originally reported, but I haven’t found any updates

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Patella tendon strain

or something like that. during the game last night the news ticker at the bottom said he was out “indefinitely”.

by C$ on Mar 11, 2010 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Any other player I would scream "pass the ball"

but not to Jonas

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 7:47 PM EST reply actions  

The thread is quiet early on...

the game is always more fun when we have a bunch of people talking

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 7:53 PM EST reply actions  

<— says something insightful, funny.

Jonas Jerebko : Pistons :: Skippin' Bail, Dippin' Jail, Whippin' Tail and Sippin' Ale : MF Doom

by Mike Payne on Mar 10, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

just following the box scores. seems like a good start. are they playing with good energy?

by aussiegus on Mar 10, 2010 7:59 PM EST reply actions  

Good quarter

But if felt as if the Jazz were half sleep.

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 8:06 PM EST reply actions  

that ain’t good then. half asleep they shot 52%

by don'tworryaboutit on Mar 10, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I have the same complain I have every game

I’d wish they’d let the PG run the show more. It’s working so far, but I don’t like seeing RIp bring the ball and start the offense.

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 8:09 PM EST reply actions  

Considering who our point guards are

I’m not going to complain too hard. Rip has good passing instincts

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya, I’m not too comfortable with Rip running the point either. There are times when I wish he didn’t have the ball in his hand unless he is ready to shoot once he gets it.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

CV31 5pts at 100% and 3rebs in 2:33. small sample size but shit what a start

by aussiegus on Mar 10, 2010 8:09 PM EST reply actions  

Wow

I really chose a good time to start watching. Not.

insert aussie stereotype here

by Laughton on Mar 10, 2010 8:13 PM EST reply actions  

So your the one who jinxed it!

Turn off your TV now and hopefully we’ll go on a big run

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I also just tuned in and it doesn’t look pretty so far.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

14-0 run against a line up featuring Bynum, BG and CV31. i understand D would be weak but we should still be able to score

by aussiegus on Mar 10, 2010 8:19 PM EST reply actions  

I understand BG is in a slump, but I don’t care if he goes 0-30. I just want him to shoot.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 8:21 PM EST reply actions  

Me too.

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Um, 0-30 would be REALLY bad

Like, really bad. But I too want him to shoot

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

As long as he takes good shots

insert aussie stereotype here

by Laughton on Mar 10, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I see your true colors...

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 8:27 PM EST reply actions  

off topic
memphis winning against boston by 19

by don'tworryaboutit on Mar 10, 2010 8:31 PM EST reply actions  

Boston lost to the Bucks recently. They are looking very unstable this year.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes me so so sad.

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I watched that game

The Bucks are for real simply because Bogut is playing like he is capable of. They would have to be my second favourite team right now.

insert aussie stereotype here

by Laughton on Mar 10, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Michael Redd?

Is he even worth anything anymore?

It’s too bad, his career seems to be falling a part when the Bucks are starting to finally become good.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Like when the Rockets played better without McGrady.

Shit just works like that sometimes.

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.

by Skylar on Mar 10, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what,

The Jazz are a really good team. I know they’ve been hot lately, but I thought that was as much a fluke as anything. But they are playing awesome right now. I get the feeling that even if we were playing our best we still wouldn’t be competitive. They are probably the biggest threat to the Lakers out west.

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 8:31 PM EST reply actions  

The Jazz have played solid basketball for years now, yet they always seem to be under the radar.

At the same time, for a couple years now they have been in the mix, but fail to do anything worthy in the playoffs.

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And for all the criticism Boozer gets, he looks like he’s having FUN on the court, which can’t be said of so many other players in the league. It looks like he loves his team.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think, Utah’s fan love him the same way.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he was always so wishy-washy about whether he wanted to stay or not, it’s no wonder they don’t like him. But as an outsider watching, he looks like he’s where he should be — playing in a system that plays to his strengths and with a solid supporting cast.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats a pretty clear goaltend

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 8:33 PM EST reply actions  

20 assists in a HALF

Damn, we don’t stand a chance if they keep this up

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 8:37 PM EST reply actions  

yeah assist to turnovers. them 20:4 us 11:5.

by aussiegus on Mar 10, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty damn close

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I haven't picked a West team.

But I think I’m going to take the Jazz, they are impressive with a full five man starting line-up contributing…

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 8:43 PM EST reply actions  

“It’s one thing to have a problem and an answer but these guys (the Pistons) have a problem and no answer.”

Well, thank you for pointing that out NBA TV crew.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 8:52 PM EST reply actions  

We had the Answer

We turned him into the rotting carcass of Ben Gordon and the zombified CHarlie V

insert aussie stereotype here

by Laughton on Mar 10, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Fuck these commie bastards

You let one commie on the roster, then you’re all commies! Red Scare FTW!

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 8:53 PM EST reply actions  

J-Max eats commie babies!

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 8:57 PM EST reply actions  

Great charge taken by JJ

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 8:58 PM EST reply actions  

That was a crazy finish by Bynum. Like, zero angle to get that shot off.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 8:59 PM EST reply actions  

If Jonas could be ready to shoot that 18 footer he’d be set. He came off a screen and was wide open but wasn’t even thinking about shooting.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:01 PM EST reply actions  

Jonas...i forgive you

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 9:03 PM EST reply actions  

Bah, like he has anything to apologize for…

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha, man, I just spent the last few plays back and forth only watching JJ. That guy is a machine. He runs full speed up the court, which you don’t see in the NBA very often!

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:04 PM EST reply actions  

Seriously?

Will Bynum long jumpers is our gameplan?

insert aussie stereotype here

by Laughton on Mar 10, 2010 9:05 PM EST reply actions  

Kelsar just brought up something I've wondered about

At the time giving the big contract to Sheed made perfect sense. In the long run, we should have signed Memo. He was younger, a better rebounder, and actually makes an effort in the low post. He’s never been at Sheed’s level defensively but then again Memo has never been a head case like Sheed.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:07 PM EST reply actions  

It’s definitely an interesting “What If…?” scenario. Although Memo doesn’t really have Sheed’s fire, so maybe wouldn’t have had the swagger we needed to get over the hump with him?

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know if we would have made it back to the Finals in 2005 without Sheed

But in the long run I would much rather have had Memo. Of course hindsight is 20/20.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course if Joe had let Sheed walk in favor of Memo

we would have been PISSED that summer. Hindsight is a powerful thing

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Miami would of killed us.

No chance Memo is helping Ben hold down the paint with Shaq being old Shaq and Wade driving the paint at every single opportunity.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

OT: Hot Tub Time Machine?

Seriously? Has there ever been a stupider title/premise for a movie? (Other than “Snakes on a Plane” of course) If anyone I know pays money to see that movie, I will slap them in the face.

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 9:09 PM EST reply actions  

Who the hell keeps yelling And 1 ?

Utah is really fucking annoying.

insert aussie stereotype here

by Laughton on Mar 10, 2010 9:11 PM EST reply actions  

Jesus Rip...what a pass?!

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 9:11 PM EST reply actions  

Woah, hustle from Chunky!

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:14 PM EST reply actions  

Take that Boozer!

Charlie V with some big plays.

insert aussie stereotype here

by Laughton on Mar 10, 2010 9:15 PM EST reply actions  

P-P-P-Playoffs?

We sittin heah

Im ’post to be tha franchise pleah

an we in yeah talkin bout practice.

/Best rapsketball joint ever, Steve Porter, word up

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.

by Skylar on Mar 10, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Pass the guacamooooooohhheeeelaaaayyy…

by TDP on Mar 10, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's my rule re: Chunky Charlie

If he makes a few good plays I reward him by calling him CV. So, kudos to CV!

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:16 PM EST reply actions  

CV making it rain!

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:20 PM EST reply actions  

i’d like to see rodney finish at the rim with that type of finesse

by don'tworryaboutit on Mar 10, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel like BG needs to beat up some some scrubs to get his confidence back. Dominate some second stringers and score 40 or something.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a MIRACLE!

Although it could be said that it is a little overdue

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 9:23 PM EST reply actions  

Kwame sighting in the pre-game montage!

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:23 PM EST reply actions  

nets beating the mavs by 13 right now…

by don'tworryaboutit on Mar 10, 2010 9:24 PM EST reply actions  

Rodney with some lip balm.

He dehydrated?

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 9:27 PM EST reply actions  

probably

most people think because their lips are dry and flaky its beacuse of the winter and put lip balm on. When in actuality they are more than likely dehydrated.

by Wheaties on Mar 10, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Easy to say but that lone quarter was not just a win but a beat down by the Jazz.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Well that was a short rally.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:28 PM EST reply actions  

I thought Daye was going to rough up Korver there for a second!

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:31 PM EST reply actions  

Correction: “Getting lost at the mall”

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

He should have

I want to see Daye fuck somebody up.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope we see Daye and Gordon continue to play significant minutes this quarter plus it would be good to see some Summers. Cant see Detroit making up 13 in the last against Jazz

by aussiegus on Mar 10, 2010 9:33 PM EST reply actions  

I hate CV’s form. His weird jumpers and floaters are just so non-basketbally. Kind of like Antawn Jamison, but not as good.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:34 PM EST reply actions  

He looks perpetually tired.

insert aussie stereotype here

by Laughton on Mar 10, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

This is what I imagine goes through CV’s head as he shoots an off-balance, spinning 180 degree jumper from 9 feet out: “I got this. I’m taller than the guy guarding me.”

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Congrats JoD

You took a championship team and turned it into a shit sandwich.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:38 PM EST reply actions  

That team was never going to contend for another championship

We held onto our core guys the way it was. Of course the rebuilding could have gone much better

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

True that

Memories of that game make my head hurt

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah

That was the series where a garbage player became fucking Kobe to the refs.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Can't blame the refs for all of it

After the first 4 or five triples we should have realized we needed to guard the guy

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

It's more the way that he was getting FTs every time he touched the ball.

Then in the Finals they switched directions and let the Spurs blow them off the court. The NBA refs fucking suck but they have no logic behind their fixing of games.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

His numbers were crazy, though. Like, superstar crazy. It was……..suspicious. But you have to give him credit for making his shots.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't remember the refs making Boobie look like Kobe.

I do remember the Pistons making Boobie look like Kobe. Maybe my memory is hazy.

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Koobie?

Koboobie

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.

by Skylar on Mar 10, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

It was after (and during) this series..

..Flip Saunders was starting to get really questioned by fans.

I still blame Flip for that mess, he should of done a better job of adjusting our team.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

i remember watching the game when lebron owned us

and while i was so fucking pissed off i was also kinda amazed. it was a very weird feeling.

by dandresden on Mar 10, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

And then let the hype build up..

…to where Cavs fans were starting to compare him to Magic Johnson.

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Rebuilding should of happened after the '07 ECF

But even I was still wanted to keep the guys around….

by DBB Diablo on Mar 10, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Palace plays Miley Cyrus to further shit on the fans who bothered to show up.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:41 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

For all the hate on the Wrong DeJuan

I think he has a chance to be a decent player. Whenever I see him play (which admittedly isn’t much) he seems to be effective

by bugman222 on Mar 10, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

The nice thing about him (despite our griping) is that there’s really no pressure on him. He can go out and just play basketball and stay loose, which it looks like he’s doing. That makes a huge difference.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Poor Summers

has no chance through no fault of his own. Fairly to him or not, he’s the symbol of frustration for a whole bunch of Pistons fans who feel like Joe Dumars has been trying to be too cute in the draft.

by Other Matt on Mar 10, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

he will prolly show flashes of being a solid player and then joe will trade him for a bag of nickles and a cab ride to coinstar.

by dandresden on Mar 10, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Jaaaaaam! Ohhhhh jaaaaaam!

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:49 PM EST reply actions  

I’ve decided that any question that looks something like this,

“Why did ____________________ this season?”

is unanswerable.

by brgulker on Mar 10, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed Special K

The fundamental problem here is that Utah got whatever they wanted offensively.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:50 PM EST reply actions  

I like Greg

Because he mostly tells it how it is. When you should be embarrassed by the way you’re playing, he will say so without being hysterical about it.

by Other Matt on Mar 10, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice fast break by the young’uns!

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:51 PM EST reply actions  

Daye/Jerebko causing havoc in the passing lanes!

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 9:51 PM EST reply actions  

Kyle Korver, +27
Chunky Charlie, -22

by brgulker on Mar 10, 2010 9:52 PM EST reply actions  

Yes! That's it!

Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

by Kriz on Mar 10, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

What is that?

Some sort of pig-bear-man?

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly

It is half man, half bear, and half pig.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

It has two sets of ears?

by TDP on Mar 10, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

the bastard son

of Benny Urquidez

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.

by Skylar on Mar 10, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

He is from Ukraine

Maybe he got a dose of Cherynobyl?

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I like this. Needed a laugh, thanks.

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.

by Skylar on Mar 10, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Looking for a positive spin...

Rodney looked quite sharp in that sports coat.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 10, 2010 9:58 PM EST reply actions  

seven players in double figures and Daye just short is a positive I think.

by aussiegus on Mar 10, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

True! Hooray for small victories! It must be the shoes.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

can not improving on the seventh worse record in the NBA be seen as a positive?

by aussiegus on Mar 10, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

From a draft standpoint, yes

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.

by Skylar on Mar 10, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah but this is the best shirt

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.

by Skylar on Mar 10, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Take away the second quarter and Pistons played well. Unfortunatly second quarter stays and we got beat comfortably.

by aussiegus on Mar 10, 2010 9:59 PM EST reply actions  

He’s +100 in our hearts.

by garrettelliott on Mar 10, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Fitting, because Summers is, at best, half the player that Jonas is.

by brgulker on Mar 12, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

SLC Dunk

is a great blog name.

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.

by Skylar on Mar 11, 2010 12:06 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Shucks.

Now we’re guaranteed a losing season!

by TDP on Mar 11, 2010 12:19 AM EST reply actions  

Holy fucking shit!

I finished my glass of wine and nearly swallowed the beer bottle caps I had tossed in said glass earlier tonight. I coulda been killed!

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 11, 2010 12:40 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah, I think they were.

This is not a proud chapter in my life.

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 11, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

its all good dude, we have all been there. i was just trying to understand how this could occur.

by dandresden on Mar 11, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I apprecite that but

I don’t think you all have. Thanks for the support but almost swallowing the beer bottle caps you had carelessly thrown in to your wine glass earlier that night is something I would hope no one else here has experienced. God dammit JoD, do you see what this team has reduced me to? None of this would have happened if you hadn’t traded Chauncey!

Projecting drunkenness on to someone I’ve never met FTW!

I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.

by SadPanda1 on Mar 11, 2010 1:50 AM EST reply actions  

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