Will Joe Dumars use the entire MLE?
by Matt Watson on Mar 25, 2010 3:35 AM EDT
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PrintJoe Dumars' post-game comments about his plans this summer were already discussed in Tuesday's game thread, but in case you're too frustrated with this season to read every single comment, let me direct you to Dan Feldman of PistonPowered:
Joe Dumars said in an interview with Eli Zaret that aired during tonight’s telecast he plans to use the mid-level exception this summer to acquire a quality player.
I was worried with the economy down in the area, coupled with his desire to sign Will Bynum, that Dumars wouldn’t use the MLE this year. Thankfully, it’s in the cards.
Dumars also said he plans to acquire a quality player through the draft and another via trade (which indicates he’s not looking to dump Richard Hamilton for an expiring contract – at least not as the only deal of the summer).
That’s a plan I can get behind.
In theory, it's a decent plan ... assuming Dumars can pull it off. The lottery will largely determine Dumars' success in drafting (with a high enough pick, even he can't outsmart himself here ... right?), but why should we believe he'll have the financial freedom to use the entire MLE?
After watching this franchise pinch pennies last summer by giving young, valuable players away like Arron Afflalo and Amir Johnson just to save a buck, I won't be surprised if the new ownership keeps the wallet shut in anticipation of yet another rebuilding year -- not to mention a more owner-friendly CBA in 2011.
(Another, more depressing, scenario: Dumars will have the freedom to use the MLE but it doesn't make an immediate difference. Do you see an MLE-caliber big man capable of anchoring this team's frontline? Neither do I. Perhaps Dumars finds that piece in the draft, but the more I become acquainted with this year's draft class, the more I subscribe to the theory that the true game-changers are swingmen.)
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I read that piece over at Piston Powered yesterday, but I have to say, I didn’t quite buy Dan’s interpretation of the interview with Joe.
When combined with what Joe has said in the past about breaking up the MLE and using it to sign multiple players, I don’t see a solid reason to assume that 1) Jod will spend the full MLE or 2) that Jod will spend it all on one player if he does. Just epinion. We’ll see.
But even if he does, what impact guy would be available for the MLE? Thinking about the FA list this season, I’m really skeptical there will be one. Maybe a nice complementary piece, though.
Saying he plans to does not equal actually using the whole thing.
I have my doubts.
I root for the Tigers, Pistons, Red Wings and yes, the Lions.
Me in 140 characters
I still think we have the pieces to pull the Polish Hammer away from the Magic.
I don’t want to do any research, but I’m just assuming that we have something(s) the Magic would want. And lord knows that guy’s sick of sitting on the bench behind D-Howard.
Looking at this trade potential
The only thing that works logically to me is
Pistons get:
Gortat
Pietrus
Orlando gets:
Tayshaun
2nd Round Pick
I don’t think Orlando would be willing to give up Pietrus and Gortat because then they don’t have a legit big to back up Howard for 10-12 minutes per game. Arguably, they’d probably want our 1st round pick from this year assuming its in the 5-10 range which I doubt we’d be willing to give up. Maybe a protected 1st round for 2011/2012?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
That's totally one sided
Pietrus is a good player on a fairly reasonable contract. He fits their system perfectly and is a great defender (he was a key reason for “containing” LeBron, by essentially forcing him to shoot a lot of jumpers), no way they trade both for just future cap space and a 2nd round pick.
However, we might be able to do Gortat, cash and the right to swap second round picks for Tayshaun.
Technically, I believe that picks can hold as much value as the trader deems them. That’s how Camby was traded for a pick and cash. Thus I want to say that for salary cap purposes, the trade should work.
The only reason that Orlando would do this is because of Vince Carter. He’s got just about the worst contract in the NBA right now, and it’s slowly killing them financially (as is Richard Lewis’ contract). Thus they’ll be one of the teams that has to give up a good player on a reasonable contract for cap space. From there they can either buyout Tay and save a lot of luxury tax, or go for a title with him. It also helps our cause that Gortat wants out.
by bearded thundar on Mar 25, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
but it works finiancially
the camby trade worked b/c the clips had cap space. No dollar value is assigned to a pick. The magic are over the cap (and we’re right at it), so we would both need equal $ coming in and going out. No trading gortat for tay unless other salaries are involved coming our way.
by C$ on Mar 25, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Tay EMO is an upgrade over Pietrus
But I agree with you that it is one-sided. My point being that I don’t really see much value we can offer Orlando
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
The Magic may need a backup PG. Jason Williams is old.
Also, a guy who can play the occasional point forward role wouldn’t hurt either.
Tay and MFWB/Stuck might work.
So....
Sign and trade with MFWB + Tay for Gortat + 2010 2nd rounder
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Gortat and Pietrus
or any Magic trade for that matter—- doesn’t make us any better. Can Gortat project out better than the potential draft pick we make this year?
This feels like you’re trying to make a trade just to make a trade. I’m as big on Gortat as the next DBBer, but I think we can get a lot more with Tay than these scraps.
Jonas Jerebko : Pistons :: Skippin' Bail, Dippin' Jail, Whippin' Tail and Sippin' Ale : MF Doom
Oh agreed.
I only posed the trade scenario to spur discussion. I don’t necessarily agree with it. Tay’s expiring contract could be EXTREMELY valuable to any number of teams next year…
Does LA still feel like Artest is the right fit at SF? Is Andrew Bynum’s injury issues not worth continued investment?
Tay would be a good expiring contract that if we pulled in a 3rd team to send a reasonable big to LA could net us Bynum. Not that I’m saying Bynum is who we need, but an injury free Bynum would be a good option (ie – have faith in Kander).
Something along the lines of (not that I necessarily think that all parties would agree to this):
Memphis gets: Austin Daye, Ron Artest, additional contract from LA
LA gets: Tayshaun Prince, Zach Randolph
Detroit gets: Andrew Bynum
Realgm is telling me that this doesn’t work because LA is too close to the cap but assuming this deal went down next year, LA will have Morrison, Fisher, and Farmar all coming off the books…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Mar 25, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
understood
Yeah, spurring discussion is always a good thing, especially when there’s not much to talk about for the rest of this season’s play. +rec.
Jonas Jerebko : Pistons :: Skippin' Bail, Dippin' Jail, Whippin' Tail and Sippin' Ale : MF Doom
Mike, Gortat makes us better. He’s not pushing us over the top or anything, but he makes us better.
Our big men for next season are: Max, CV, and Wilcox. Maybe Ben Wallace. Maybe a draft pick.
I think you’re right that we can get more for Tay than Gortat and parts; I hear you there. But a legit 7 footer makes us better than we are now.
by brgulker on Mar 25, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
dude, I know Gortat could make us “better”, but I’m not content with a move with our biggest trade piece for the kind of “better” that only nets us a few more games.
Jonas Jerebko : Pistons :: Skippin' Bail, Dippin' Jail, Whippin' Tail and Sippin' Ale : MF Doom
I think he does
As you all know, I am an optimist, and so I think he does use the full MLE. In order to raise the team’s value, Joe will have to add more quality players. Otherwise our favorite widow will have to sell way short on the majority of the Davidson estate with the current state of the economy.
It’s a shame that we missed out on Larry Ellison (he is about to buy the Warriors), as he looks like a legitimate owner that’s willing to spend. However, I think most NBA people recognize that when the economy is good, Detroit has one of the best fanbases in the league. Whoever buys it now will get a very nice investment in the long run, and more than likely wouldn’t care too much about a few extra million when the estate is worth several hundred.
My only question is what does the MLE get you in this off season? I still think if Joe plays his hand right, and he’s traditionally very good with trades, we can come out a winner this off season. There are just too many teams with cap space and not enough star players – which why I doubt we get anything of value with the MLE. I’m willing to bet at least 5 teams make bloated signings, and then come out with buyers remorse around the trade deadline. That’s when Joe can swoop in and take off good contracts off people’s hands, akin to what Denver did with Afflalo.
I’d also like to point out that I don’t think Joe just gave away Afflalo and Amir for no reason. He and Hammond will never admit it, but I’m willing to bet 3 shiny pennies that they made an agreement, such that the Bucks get Amir and in exchange they don’t offer CV a contract. CV was a coveted player in the offseason, albiet we overpaid, but if he didn’t get plantar fascitis (which according to FSN is still bothering him), I’d say he would be an integral part of Milwaukee’s core. Also we know for a fact that Afflalo requested the trade. I’m not apologizing for his moves, but rather saying that I’m about 95% certain that there was more to those moves than initially appeared.
by bearded thundar on Mar 25, 2010 10:45 AM EDT reply actions
yeah, optimism ftw
i say he spends it. i’m not worried about the ownership situation. i don’t know if he spends it all on one person, ie. Haywood, or splits it up like he has in the past, but we’ll get someone.
I reference haywood, even though many people think he’s now a lock to be in dallas, because he’s not starting and recently said “I just work here” when asked if he was upset about coming off the bench. then again… with dampier most likely gone next year, he probably won’t be so pressed for PT
by the89oracle on Mar 25, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Brendan Haywood
would look good in a Detroit uniform.
by handsomerob1 on Mar 25, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
He would
But I doubt we can afford him. He’s a steal at his current contract, and most teams realize that. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a sizeable contract once the big names are gone.
by bearded thundar on Mar 25, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
"planter fascitis"
It’s still no reason not to workout much. When you look at CV’s frame(shoulders especially) you can tell he rarely pumps any iron. He is lazy. He has a good God given frame and doesn’t work at it.
Dumb joke but had to – How does someone get planter fascitis?
By tripping on a peanut.
One power slam from Brock and Mir might be dead. He better watch his words. He'll be eating them soon.
The Amir and Afflalo trades weren't about saving cash, were they?
I thought they were made to gain cap space. Granted, that space looks effectively wasted at the moment, but there was a strategic move for those deals beyond simply saving money.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 25, 2010 10:51 AM EDT reply actions
sadly, no
The Amir trade saved Detroit under $4 million, which Joe subsequently spent on Chris Wilcox. Afflalo was still on his late first round rookie deal, so his salary didn’t make a notable difference.
Jonas Jerebko : Pistons :: Skippin' Bail, Dippin' Jail, Whippin' Tail and Sippin' Ale : MF Doom
I don't think it was penny-pinching, either
Ben Wallace hadn’t signed yet, and the Pistons needed another center. Amir Johnson couldn’t fill that role, so Dumars trade him for the room to sign Wilcox.
As far as Arron Afflalo, he said he basically asked to be traded. Dumars’ policy has always been to accommodate those requests. I think that’s how you build a healthy franchise.
by PistonPowered on Mar 25, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
BullsBlogger was actually correct
We did get cap space for getting rid of them. We didn’t a lot of cap space for it and we subsequently wasted all of it on mediocre players, but still, we made those deals for the cap space. They were not about saving a buck. If they had, we wouldn’t have gone out and spent the money on Gordon, CV, and Wilcox. If our owner had been a total cheapskate who forced Joe to dump contracts and not allow him to spend the cash, we would actually be in a better position than we are now.
I think more went on financially at the Palace than we really know
I almost feel like Joe D may have pulled the trigger on CV and BG as quickly as he did because he expected MFKD (for those of you new to DBB, that stands for Monetarily Frugal Karen Davidson) to reign in spending.
There seems to have been a shift sometime in the off-season with how Joe D was operating…building for the future, collecting quality young talent, etc. shifted to an all-out liquidation sale of that same valuable talent.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
JoD will need to combine draft pick + players to get the quality trade he's looking for.
Unless he really feels that Cole Aldrich is the big of the future for us (which he easily could be), he’s not goign to be able to get the quality big we need in just an MLE or just a trade.
In other news, I’m playing NBA 2K10 franchise mode with the pistons and in the first season the bucks offered me Gadzuric + 1st round draft pick for Charlie Villanueva…just proves that fiction is WAY BETTER than reality.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Nice offer
but video game CV31 >>> real life CV31
by handsomerob1 on Mar 25, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Not with Living Rosters.
The Pistons are just as bad in video games as in real life, because the 2k team updates the player attributes on a weekly basis.
Yeah...
I also up the game sliders from 50 to high 50s on most because I’m a wuss. I don’t know if living rosters plays a part in the franchise mode because Jerebko who I am currently developing along with Stuckey was injured/still injured last week…I don’t remember him getting injured a few weeks ago in real life though.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Franchise play ignores living rosters in the sense that it doesn’t update players/rosters weekly.
But, if I were to start a Franchise mode today, I would start with today’s “living roster,” i.e., a totally crappy team. Had I started before the season officially began, they would have been bad, but not awful. Charlie V was actually a really, really good scorer in 2k preseason, but I haven’t p[layed as the Stones in a loooooooong time. Far too painful.
Joe will sit on his money waiting for another undervalued snubbed hardworker,
but he won’t come. Most of the FAs will resign with their respective teams and the rest will be overpaid and mismatched together on teams after the LBJ/Wade aftermath. He’s bringing a knife to a gun fight. It’s his MLE vs. 2 max contracts for the big buyers in this off season. He’s last in the chow line. There are really only 4 major defectors I can see; Wade, LeBron, Boozer, and Bosh.
So the world passes Jod by again. He panicks after not making a move again and offers the MLE to Ben Gordon. It’s science.
that's why I think we could potentially be a winner of the free agency
We’ll get squat with the MLE, I’ve already established that. However, as you said, a lot of people are going to be overpaid once GMs panic as LeBron signs with NJ/Cle, Wade resigns with Miami and Bosh possibly joins Wade. Boozer will get his money, but I don’t be too surprised if he returns to Utah. They’ve got a good owner that realizes just how good of a player he is, if they had no thoughts about retaining him he would have been traded back in the summer. Besides their front court would go from one of the best to dangerously thin, a big risk for some extra money.
Joe just needs to bide his time until half the GMs get buyers remorse around the trade deadline.
by bearded thundar on Mar 25, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And then what? He can’t use the MLE in a trade. He can only use the MLE to sign a FA.
If someone gets buyer’s remorse after signing Joe Johnson to a max deal, how does that help us? What do we have that such a team would want?
maybe we don't have the potential to take off the buyers remorse
but when that team realizes how screwed they are and decides they need to dump some other players to lower their luxury tax contributions. that’s where an expiring 3 or 10 million dollar contract helps. (lets not forget that we could get something for wilcox if a team is desperate enough to cut payroll)
one of the things about those big 2 max FA teams
they will hardly have any money to pay anyone else. say the knicks get Bosh and Joe Johnson. okay. the only players they have under contract are a bunch of guys on rookie contracts, eddy curry, and anyone else they can scrape together.
if they can save some money by giving us our choice of their non danilo rookies in exchange for wilcox, would they do it? there’s a chance. would it improve them? not at all. would it improve us? it sure as heck couldn’t hurt to have another young guy
Trade for Blake Griffin?
Maybe Jod can trade the Pistons #1 and another decent chip for Blake Griffin. Griffin was the #1 pick last year and would be a great fit in Detroit and the Clippers are a cheap franchise that would gain one year of cheap top pick, another piece and maybe a bit of cap space to get a top FA in ’10.
not sure I want to build around Griffin
Whether or not you believe in the Clipper curse, as I hear it the guy’s knee literally exploded in the summer league, and has reinjurred it every time he’s either come off surgery or rehab. I’m not sure how much of his original athleticism he’ll retain by the time he plays, if he ever consistently plays. Just think of Greg Oden.
by bearded thundar on Mar 25, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
After watching Oklahoma vs. Michigan in the NCAA tournament last year
I will never be a fan of Blake Griffin regardless of how many championships he theoretically brings to Detroit. The guy is cocky as fuck and has ugly ass parents. ’nuff said.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
ehh
The guy has nothing on Cindy Crosby, and I’m positive that if he played for Detroit, wings fans would hail him as Jesus
by bearded thundar on Mar 25, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Difference being...
Crosby has won a stanley cup and is already one of the best in all of hockey. Griffin is a little bitch with an explosive knee cap who hasn’t proven shit.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
That still doesn't undo or move V and Gordon
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
i swear.
you could win the lottery and complain about the time it took you to claim the ticket.
by the89oracle on Mar 25, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
only if he spends the lottery winnings and two overpriced piles of doo doo. otherwise, your analogy doesn’t really work.
Jonas Jerebko : Pistons :: Skippin' Bail, Dippin' Jail, Whippin' Tail and Sippin' Ale : MF Doom
I declare war
on rainbows.
Find a new blog to shit them, if this bothers you sooooooo much.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
it's not always rainbows
but it’s not always shit either.
you don't really like me
there’s rainbows here and there you missed, sorry
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
was that coherent?
i have nothing against you. i just don’t understand the constant whining. i get that you aren’t happy, but what do you want? of anything that can feasibly happen, what do you want?
because joe isn’t getting fired unless the team is sold and the new owner doesn’t like him. i wouldn’t anticipate the team being sold in the next year or two anyway.. so. what’s your pleasure?
lies
if you can’t laugh, you’re a deluded asshole with no sense of humor.
so fuck yourself, chum.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
mature
i’m sincerely asking, where do you want to go from here?
whatever you say. i guess you have nothing to contribute to any intelligent conversation. but feel free to keep spouting bile.
a lot
too many to count, you don’t have enough fingers for you to keep track either
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
oh i get it!
i’m too dumb to count! good one, you got me! man i’m stupid.
can't change my opinion
as much as i can’t change yours.
but i can bring you down to the level you want, retard.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
i’m not trying to change your opinion. i’m asking what you suggest this team do in the future. apparently that idea merits some mocking, but hey. i can take it. i won’t cry. until later.
i suggest you
shove that question your ass, but you didn’t take that advice. it’s repeated, as many times as you need it to be.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
not any of our jobs
to come up with bright ideas for a village idiot who gets paid to make them.
in other words, if i was him, i wouldn’t have traded Billups, among many other ideas. Joe does his own thing, and there is no point to thinking for him, especially since his thoughts and decisions haven’t been great for a while.
i would like him to move this team in the right direction, and the velocity and trajectory is still resembling a free fall from a mountain.
i say things that run the gamut over the course of the years i’ve paid attention to this franchise. you simply don’t like my comments.
with this franchise, i’m done thinking, but i’m just started with the mocking. that shit will cease when there’s praise to be made.
i don’t like things up my ass as much as you, and i’m not as blind as you either. i’m also glad i don’t have your problems, because if optimism and rejecting my amusements is your thing, then i can’t imagine being as miserable as you are.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
that’s fair. but if you have nothing to do but complain, why bother doing that? those are the comments i don’t prefer, at least when they’re constant. at least now you’re making a sensible argument for your frustration, and i appreciate that.
and yes. i do love the occasional thing up my butt, and my vision is less than perfect. but i don’t sound so miserable as the guy who does nothing but curse and complain
by the89oracle on Mar 25, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm one of the most happy guys there are
the guys who vent frustration are usually the most happy. guess how happy i am? plenty happy.
you really are a knucklehead if you can’t figure any of this out.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
name calling and hating on dumars
what, do you think this is some kind of bulls blog? where are you at, son?
Jonas Jerebko : Pistons :: Skippin' Bail, Dippin' Jail, Whippin' Tail and Sippin' Ale : MF Doom
What the hell happened here?
It seems Hannibal Lector just killed a rainbow…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Mar 26, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
The MLE may be the last piece Dumars takes care of
After the draft and any potential trades. Thus, we really have no clue right now what position we will need or even if we need to sign another player immediately. I see the max free agents(lookin at you lebron) taking a little more time to sign, pushing back the signing times of a lot of other players.. so we have some time to worry about that mle.
In the meantime a.k.a from now until May 18 i’m going to play the hope and wish game that we’ll be getting the 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft or whatever we need to draft Cousins.
Through trade I think we should go after the 4 position(if we can land Cousins). Is there any way we could sign and trade for Bosh? I know it works with restricted’s but unrestricted’s i dunno. If not bosh, then maybe David West?
I’m looking at Rip, Tay, Charlie, and Austin(as a nice sweetener) as available for trade. I’d use 3 of them to get a quality pf and the other to grab a couple role players.
To me our core is: Stuckey, Bynum, Gordon, Jerebko, Maxiell, 1st round pick, quality trade player, and MLE.
Panning ahead.
Also I’ve been thinking, if Joe Johnson doesn’t re-up with Atlanta, maybe they’d be interested in a base trade of Rip for Marvin Williams.
Oh 1 more.
If Memphis doesn’t match an offer for Rudy Gay maybe a Tay for Marc Gasol trade could be worked out. I’m pretty sure they’ll be under the cap enough to do it or we’ll have to take Carroll or Arthur as well.
You other sblogs is minor, We Major
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee." — Drew Gooden.
by Skylar on Mar 25, 2010 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
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