Staying Competitive for the Lottery: Bobcats 99, Pistons 95
by Packey on Apr 11, 2010 6:45 AM EDT
in Detroit Pistons Recaps
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PrintWith the Clippers and 76ers nipping at the celluloid balls that rightfully belong to the Pistons, many figured the squad in blue, red, and white needed a loss to prevent a fall in the NBA lottery standings. However, a win last night would not have made a significant impact on the Pistons' lottery odds (a difference of 10 combos). The biggest blow to their odds coincided with their previous three wins. Similarly, a loss does not dramatically improve their odds. As it stands now, they hold the 6th worst record, exactly 63 combos.* Lottery balls be damned, a win last night would not have been detrimental.
And these are the type of games I'd like to see the Pistons win, if they're going to win. Anytime you have a chance to win a game with last minute heroics, those are the kind of experiences you can never get enough of, ones that will make you that much better when the next opportunity presents itself.
Unfortunately the Pistons haven't seized any of these opportunities this season.
Last night, the Pistons' two biggest 2009 free agent signees had a combined five chances to hit go-ahead buckets in the final minute of the game, but all came up empty (and Will Bynum had a sixth chance that would have tied the game).
Ben Gordon, who missed four of those shots, seemed content with competing, though:
"This is exactly what we were talking about, just going out and competing every night, respecting other teams in the playoff hunt and going out there and challenging them," said Gordon, who shot 7-for-20 a night after scoring 39 points against Miami. "That's what we've been doing."
Yes, it was a fun game to watch and, in the long run, losses should help the Pistons (assuming the odds land a higher draft pick and the Pistons actually execute that pick), but this isn't exactly the kind of post-game quote I want to read from the guy who had a chance to do more than simply compete with "the team[s] in the playoff hunt;" the same guy who was brought here to hit those late shots. If I didn't watch the game and see the outcome myself, I wouldn't be able to tell if the Pistons won or lost judging from this quote.
At the same time, we're not exactly at the point in the season to get all bent out of shape about a loss, obviously, and a close one at that. The Pistons have been in a win-win situation for awhile now. We can revel in that much, at least.
A few links that might interest you:
- Box Score -- NBA.com
- Bobcats win despite resting starters -- Rufus on Fire
- Charlie V could be a contributor on defense -- Detroit News
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These posts about Lottery balls....
…are hillarious….I understand its kind of important but it seems every post on here talks about it…..I cant wait til the season is over and we dont have to worry about pistons fans hoping my team loses….Makes me sick…..Then again ive beeb a State fan all my life and we dont like losing…..GO PISTONS!!!!
by BennieBladesFan on Apr 11, 2010 10:41 AM EDT reply actions
Dude people just want to see a really successful draft.
There’s nothing wrong with that. I’m really pleased the Pistons are fighting back, but you should realize at this stage in the season, it is really all about the 2010 draft… and State has nothing to do with it. C’mon man.
"Take it off the rack, if it's wack, put it back. I like the Whopper, fuck the Big Mac." - Rob Base, It Takes Two, 1988
by Skylar on Apr 11, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's all about looking to the future
I would rather lose now, then lose later for a long long time. The Lottery is one big step towards getting this team out of mediocrity.
by Taiwanese Tora on Apr 11, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd, MFskylar
BennieBladesFan prefers the shaft to the lottery balls.
DeMarcus Cousins stole your lunch money.
jesus christ its like that experiment they do with little kids.
would you rather have one piece of chocolate now, or if you wait 10 minutes you can have five pieces of chocolate?
I WANT IT NOW DAHHHHDEEE
I WANT A GOOSE THAT LAYS GOLDEN EGGS!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
They're eerily similar
that or I’m in a 4 hour meeting on a Sunday that sucks big fat balls.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I'm actually with Bennie on this one.
I’m more than a little surprised that anyone here would be upset over the fact that the Pistons are playing good basketball right now, especially considering they’ve been doing it primarily with the most likely pieces of “the future”. BG has played well, CV has played, um, better, Bynum is back, and Daye has hopefully taken the “B” out of MP’s mouth. Tay is playing his way into perhaps the single most desirable trade chip this summer (or at least before the trade deadline) in the league.
I know wins are basically meaningless right now, but the notables above are far more important to the future of the franchise than any chance or odd or “maybe” at landing at player that may or may not end up any better than the player taken a few spots later.
I am encouraged by the improvement this team has shown in the last week. Obviously, I’m not going to argue that they are ready to do anything as currently constructed. However, I believe that team play and “competing” is always more importent than any one player on a team. Therefore, if this improvement results in wins that may reduce our chances at drafting one player that might be better than another player in the future, I am all for it.
And, I encourage others who feel this way to speak up.
by waulie on Apr 11, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
im not upset that they are playing good now, im upset that they didnt do it the first 75 games.
by dandresden on Apr 11, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
with u
before the win streak i was tending toward tanking but to be honest betting on getting someone gamechanging in the draft is so much less viable than giving confidence to the dudes we have now. the thing we have going for us is confidence in a winning ballclub, we’re not the clippers. we develop the talent we have, we don’t wait for a messiah. detroit is all about the underdog. the dude no one thought had a chance in hell of making an impact. let’s get back on board with that thinking and help get our team back to kicking ass
by CDEE on Apr 11, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm sick of looking at charlies face
if we lose there’s a better probability of replacing him or decreasing his value to this team through the draft.
/I don’t even hear what you’re saying right now cuz your face is driving me nuts’d.
by Roll The Dyess on Apr 11, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Charlie V's still sucking.
Him and Hamilton are the two pieces that just don’t make any sense.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
You could say the same about a lot of guys on this roster.
"Take it off the rack, if it's wack, put it back. I like the Whopper, fuck the Big Mac." - Rob Base, It Takes Two, 1988
WHO IS YR DAHDEEE
AND WAHT DUZ HEE DOO
\m/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrIpB2B14Ek \m/
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
Bennie
I said explicitly in the post that I wanted the Pistons to win this game. Did you read past the title?
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you should try doing that before commenting next time.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
All im saying is....
….if we pick 6th or 9th we get a good player….i just dont get it….Were not noing to get the 1st or 2nd pick more then likely anyway….So we wont get Wall or Cousins….So we get the next tier ehich are all good….we stil get a good player….Im looning forward to the offseason too…..however the only way this team gets better is if we can trade Tay and Rip to lose salary and draft well whether its 4th 5th or 10th.
by BennieBladesFan on Apr 12, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
dude
we had the 3rd pick before the 3 wins we got recently. That would have gotten us either Cousins or Turners, both of which have all-star + potential, borderline superstars. The difference between picks 6-9 and pick 3 is fucking huge.
LET’S GET THOSE WINS, THE SEASON AIN’T OVER YET!!!!!!!!!!!
And had we not won those three games, we would have won a hell of a lot more next year thanks to a top three pick.
DeMarcus Cousins stole your lunch money.
by Mike Payne on Apr 12, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i would contend that the season is over and has been over for at least a month. i will agree with bbf on the fact that no matter where we land in the draft we have to make it count. if that means getting a good role player in the 6-9 range who is ready to contribute then so be it. im all for tanking and getting in the top three but that might be out of range now unless we get a lucky bounce.
IMO, Dumars dropped the ball here. I think the smart move would have been to shut down the guys who’ve been injured (Rip, Stuck, Chunky, Tay). Play the young guys 20 minutes per (Daye, JJ, Summers). That’s not intentionally throwing games (tanking). That’s all legitimate and justifiable.
Rest the guys who are older but will be back next season — let them get healthy. Give the young guys who may or may not be part of the core a chance to show that that are/aren’t, and really evaluate them.
Plus, we lose games in the process, but we’re not losing for the sake of losing — we’re losing now for the sake of winning later. I think a leader would do that. Joe didn’t.
I think that's being done to an extend
But the guys we want to see minutes from play Tay’s position and he won’t not play. In years when we tried to shut down the starters because we had a playoff spot locked in, he would still demand to play. Granted he was on a consecutive games played streak, but I think he still feels the same regardless of the streak.
by Roll The Dyess on Apr 12, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But here’s the thing, in a season like this, why shouldn’t Joe have something to say about playing time?
At the end of the day, he is the one who has to make moves, and in order to make informed decisions, he’s gotta know what (he thinks) his players are capable of.
So in a season like this, why would it be out of his realm of authority to meet with Kue and say all or some of the above? “Kue, we need to evaluate some of these young guys. We know what our vets are capable of, and we know they need time to heal. So, let’s do…”
a couple points… first, i don’t think dumars controls playing time or anything like that. he lets the coaches, players, and trainers decide who should play.
second, i agree that those players should have been shut down by someone. i think Q. but the way Tay has played, i think he’s incredibly boosted his trade value down the stretch compared to where it was 60 games in. other than that, yeah, shut the guys down and let them rest
Good Point
Joe doesn’t control playing time, Q does. Kuester may see the benefit of losing games, but he is also a first year coach on a team with a bad reputation for dropping coaches who don’t win enough. He needs to win to prove to Joe (and future prospective bosses) that he is capable of winning.
however the only way this team gets better is if we can trade Tay and Rip to lose salary and draft well whether its 4th 5th or 10th.
The Pistons won’t pick lower than 9, which somewhat helps your argument. However, had the Pistons completely tanked, they would’ve had the best odds for a top 3 pick where the picks are pretty objective and I’d like to think even Joe Dumars couldn’t screw it up this year. Once you start dicking around with the 4-9 picks you get into iffy territory where, yes, there are good players, but it’s a zone in which Dumars is more likely to swing and miss Even if it means suffering through a few more losses, at this point, it’s probably worth it. The wins now are simply instant gratification and utterly meaningless in the long run. I won’t openly cheer against the Pistons, I always want them to do well, but wins are not worth exclamatory happiness and losses are hardly something to get worked up about.
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Ben's Quote
I agree, if this game actually mattered, I wouldn’t be happy with that nonchalant speech.
by Roll The Dyess on Apr 11, 2010 10:52 AM EDT reply actions
Lottery lateness
Why is the lottery over a month after the regular season ends? It seems like it’d make more sense for it to be sooner so that teams can know their draft position and scout better.
by Roll The Dyess on Apr 11, 2010 11:00 AM EDT reply actions
Can’t help but wonder if it’s about publicity. By lottery time, the Playoff schedule has slowed a bit, so the Lottery can have its own day, its own press time, etc.
It draws viewers
People tune in to the TNT games just to watch the lottery balls.
If they really wanted to make the system work, they could hold the lottery after 58 games. That would more or less end the tanking phenomenon, and yield a more honest lottery result.
by Kevin Sawyer on Apr 11, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
please tell me you used some kind of statistical analysis to come up with 58 games.
by Roll The Dyess on Apr 11, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It definitely would avoid tanking but it would also reward a team who struggled in the first and caught on fire the second half of the season (’07 Warriors). Not only would they be making the playoffs but 24 games ago it looked like they were a lottery team.
If you make the playoffs
You don’t get to be in the lottery. If a team wants to sell it’s fan base on intentionally missing the playoffs for a crack at the number 9-14 pick, they can have fun with that.
by Kevin Sawyer on Apr 12, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I take full responsibility
I just returned from China yesterday, and then they ended their 3 game winning streak. Thus logic concludes it must be my fault they lost.
Anyways, what’d I miss?
by bearded thundar on Apr 11, 2010 12:35 PM EDT reply actions
my pleasure
I must be cursed, because I first started watching the Pistons seriously in the 2005 finals (go figure).
by bearded thundar on Apr 11, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Cheikh Samb has become a Budist Monk alongside Gheorghe Muresan.
+1 on back from China = more lottery balls, losses…
McCourty will do. If the Packers don't take him first... they would.
i'm new 2 dbb
but been a fan since 87 and heart the stones big time…man seems obvious but we’d be better if dudes had defined roles. BG has stepped up since given starters minutes and the green light to be the go-to. no one has confidence in themselves when their role is undefined. the times when our guards have room (i.e. when there aren’t 4 dudes competing to be starters) games get won. same as maxiell shining when being made starting center in front of a dude he respects and wants to show he has game. t prince also shows up when he is respected. lebron and kobe and howard are great in part because no one questions their game enough to give them 18 minutes and pull them out of the game. isiah’s pistons (and chaunce’s) were great because we knew who the starters were but were glad as hell when vinnie and spider and the worm came out in the second because the dudes knew their role and were cool and respected for it and balled their hearts out. who remembers rodman and spider’s hug salute…that was dudes going to work
by CDEE on Apr 11, 2010 5:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree. They were talking about this very idea during the LA/Portland game this afternoon. Depth is great, until you get so much of it that no one knows what their roll is. BG has always done well off the bench, but that was because he always knew he would be getting starters minutes. Now that he sharing his roll equally with Rip, Stuckey, and Bynum, he doesn’t know what to expect from game to game. He can’t get comfortable. Same thing has happened to Max over the years. When he was THE big man off the bench, he explode off the bench with lots of energy because he knew thats what his role was. When we have him starting, he knows he’ll be getting lots of minutes so he can adjust accordingly. But when his minutes fluctuated wildly, he sucked because he had no idea how long he would be playing.
yeah, the roster just didn't get finished
and you had a ton of redundancy in the 2 and 3, joe just didn’t move enough guys. it bugs me they didn’t do anything at the trade deadline. if you find out that nobody wants rip, or nobody will give you what you’re asking for, start taking other shit, like bad contracts, cap-eaters in their final year or 2, anything to give a bigger shot to the guys you brought in.
he wanted BG and CV, but nobody’s really sure if they were meant to be 6th and 7th men, or if he wanted them playing 35 mpg.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
Just watched the OKC/GS game
a few take aways:
1) GS fans actually passionately want their team to win. Which leads me to confirm that…
2) GS is in a better position that we are going into the future. It seems the Warrior following isn’t as desperate as DBBers. Plus…
3) Monta Ellis and Steph Curry as building blocks are much better than anything we have at this point. Ellis took over the game in the second half and steph played a usual beautiful game.
4) Those guys we always talk about that “want to be pistons” were Ronny Turiaf and Dr. Nasty in that game. They were both in fact nasty. Problem is they aren’t pistons and wouldn’t ever want to be pistons if we have the same intensity as we did this year.
5) That was probably the best and most entertaining game i’ve watched all year. A little more durant magic would have been nice in the 2nd half, but it seemed like after Maggette and Ellis started playing rough with him he started sucking.
by Roll The Dyess on Apr 12, 2010 12:01 AM EDT reply actions
golden state fans arent as desperate because they know that they will suck forever and have accepted it. ellis and curry in your backcourt isnt going to win you anything.
by dandresden on Apr 12, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Golden State is an example of what happens when an NBA fan-base shows ownership that they will unquestioningly support the team, win or lose.
They're the Detroit Lions of the NBA in that regard.
Although I think the Lions will be in a better situation to improve this season than they have been in a decade.
"Take it off the rack, if it's wack, put it back. I like the Whopper, fuck the Big Mac." - Rob Base, It Takes Two, 1988
by Skylar on Apr 12, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
they also support the raiders, i dont know much about football but it seems that the raiders are almost lions-esque in their suckiness.
i think ellis will be on the trading block, or at least he would be if he played for any team other than gs. those dudes are too tiny to play d. luckily gs doesnt bother with that.
Stephen Curry has rendered that dude null & void.
and I don’t think anybody on this board can argue that Moped Ellis is worth a shit.
"Take it off the rack, if it's wack, put it back. I like the Whopper, fuck the Big Mac." - Rob Base, It Takes Two, 1988
monta's a mark
in the allen iverson mold of puffing up PERs and actin’ like a rock star
emphasis on actor, in both fool’s gold superstar and persona
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
it's really bad management that ruins clubs
i look at the macro picture, and i stare at the men in suits who stare at goats, and a front office like san antonio shares a lot in common with the front office in foxboro massachusetts.
guys in bay area california are pretty much like the guys whose last names are ford who lord over the frilly honolulu blues
and if i had to classify this front office, we’re in a bad road right now, when an owner gets old and dies, you don’t think it upsets the apple cart but it always does, take a look at the chiefs, rams, possibly lions (when is willie clay gonna fuckin die already), raiders for the last few years (al davis is a zombie), most franchises aren’t like the football giants, they don’t have dying owners and win a chip.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
that's the damn point
They’re that bad, and yet we are still in a worse position than them.
by Roll The Dyess on Apr 12, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
no dude, i disagree. we are still thinking about how to make this team better, they show up and support the garbage that is nelly ball. golden state is an abortion of a b-ball team. if the pistons were constructed with the ever present fail of a strategy that golden state operates with i would be out. that shit isnt even pro ball dude, thats an and1 tape where they are getting paid millions to fuck around.
we don't know our role
this losing thing is new to pistons fans, people are losing their minds
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
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