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Hittin' the Links: Scavenging the Trade Market

Completely irrelevant to the main link today, but Garrett Elliott dropped this gem in the comments last night and I thought it was worthy of a front page posting.

With good reason, the talks around DBB have centered around the upcoming lottery, draft, and the free agency/trade season.  Roster discussions will continue to dominate this blog, no doubt, until the 2010-2011 season tips off next fall.  Essentially, if there's an improvement Dumars could/should make, chances are that this fine community has already digested it entirely and recycled it through (a rainbow defecating unicorn)

But what may have been overlooked in all the hypothetical trade ideas, or not stressed enough, is Vincent Goodwill's theory that trade avenues may potentially open up when new coaches start filling the different vacancies that exist (New Jersey, Philadelphia, Chicago, New Orleans, Los Angeles Clippers), or could exist, around the league: 

The landscape of the league is changing before our eyes, and no one could accuse Dumars of standing pat, so it's not inconceivable to think he'll look to the teams in flux to remake his roster for next season.

When a new coach arrives, he usually possesses a certain amount of autonomy when it comes to personnel. With patience in regard to circumstances at an all-time low (see Vinny Del Negro), coaches see the clock ticking as soon as they sign their contracts, and the need to bring in their type of player -- or more importantly ship out undesirables -- as imminent. Thus, good players will be available, but does Dumars see them fitting into his vision?

Now, I've always assumed GMs brought in certain coaches, nine times out of ten, because the last coach couldn't make it work with the roster he was given.  Off-hand, I can't really think of any blockbuster trades occurring once a new head coach took over, just so he could have his type of player in the system (but that's where you all come in to enlighten me).  Goodwill suggests maybe such a trade could be in the making if Atlanta parts ways with Mike Woodson

Keep a close eye on Atlanta. Coach Mike Woodson has not received a contract extension and a listless performance against Orlando doesn't help his case. Guard Joe Johnson is a free agent and his recent comments about the flimsy fan support doesn't indicate Atlanta is his first choice. If he leaves, for Chicago or New York, could Al Horford and Josh Smith be ready to jump ship?

Hmmm... Goodwill finishes by giving examples of how teams, including the Pistons, have poached incompetent ones for quality players in recent years.  I have zero objections to this strategy, as it has obviously already worked once for Dumars.  Also, for those of us who were rooting for Atlanta, it'd be pretty nice consolation prize if their utter collapse helped the Pistons land a couple of their disgruntled stars.  Don't mind if we do.

Anyway, I'll let you take it from here. (And for what it's worth, the ESPN trade machine allows a Rip for Josh Smith trade, straight up, but won't let me tinker around with Al Horford.  Do your worst). 

And more links after the jump.

Star-divide

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As long as we’re not interested in Joe Johnson … that’s all I have to say.

by brgulker on May 12, 2010 8:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I never got why he wants to leave

He’s an above average player at best, not the superstar he thinks he is. Atlanta will likely give him more money than anywhere else because they tend to overvalue their players (Mike Bibby anyone?)

by bearded thundar on May 12, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

he’s the third best player on his own team. horford and smith would be the dudes i want from ATL.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cleveland

Now I want LeBron to be out of Cleveland just as much as any other Piston fan, but I want everyone to take a second and think about this situation if it was us.

Market size, we’re closer to Cleveland than New York. So if we had a superstar, nay, a once in a generation player that was being wooed by all the big boys, I would be furious at all the love being thrown around by New York media members.

I don’t like Cleveland, but if LeBron leaves, it’s classic example of the big guy picking on the little guy. (And it might signal the death of basketball in Cleveland)

My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters

by ReichardZ on May 12, 2010 9:48 AM EDT reply actions  

I feel Cleveland's pain

And then I wait to kick em when they are down! Seriously though, it would suck being a Cleveland fan and having to put up with this circus. Personally, I want Lebron out of this division and hopefully out of the conference.

Well, there was the bit that you missed where I distracted him with the cuddly monkey then I said "play time's over" and I hit him in the head with the peace lily.

by Laughton on May 12, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree!

LeBron, go away! Preferably to Olympiakos!

by -PS- on May 12, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Worse, put him on the Clippers.

My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters

by ReichardZ on May 12, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i cant feel sorry for cleveland, though you are right reichardz. fuck em anyways.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I’m saying in a roundabout way is that I would rather have LeBron on the Cavs than LeBron on the Bulls. Best case scenario, LeBron out West.

My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters

by ReichardZ on May 12, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the death of basketball in Cleveland,

results in the creation of the newly founded Seattle Super Swords, then I’m okay with that.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on May 12, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

they could even keep the blog name!

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seattle Super Swords

I’m with it.

"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"

by Skylar on May 12, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't get too excited

There’s no way in hell Atlanta trades Josh Smith………….

by Roll The Dyess on May 12, 2010 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

The only way atlanta will even think about trading j smith

is if they get David Lee and Ramon Sessions in return.

by Roll The Dyess on May 12, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

uh oh!

somebody’s butthurt! :)

"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"

by Mike Payne on May 12, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

and funny enough

your sarcastic trade idea is actually one that could improve Atlanta.

"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"

by Mike Payne on May 12, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

i like sessions for the price tag, but i dunno about david lee, especially with what he will most likely get paid this summer.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

David Lee and Ramon Sessions are overvalued by this community.

There’s quite a difference between “overvaluing” and “appreciating”. It’s quite difficult to overvalue a 20, 12 and 4 player, and Sessions career starting numbers speak for themselves for a player of his compensation.

Honestly though, it was probably your best trade idea in over a year. In fact, I’m gonna rec it, girl.

"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"

by Mike Payne on May 12, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

how lee plays next year in conjunction with what kind of contract he gets this year will be an interesting story line for me next year. im skeptical he will be as great next year as he was this year but i will admit that he would have been a better use of our capspace than cv.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

the extension of dude’s range this year was entirely unreal. he went from a 10’ player to a 20’ player and maintained his field goal efficiency. while much of dude’s play in the last two years has been attributed to D’Antoni’s “system”, that kind of development cannot be blamed on anyone but him. i’m wondering what this guy’s ceiling really is.

"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"

by Mike Payne on May 12, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, im curious as well. i questioned lee earlier and got a pretty good reply from gulks and maybe gabe that me appreciate his value. im wondering how the dude does next year because as you said he stepped up his game big time this year.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sessions never really jumped out at me

but David Lee is the shit. Damn right I value that dude

"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"

by Skylar on May 12, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone is getting excited, but...

Another way Atlanta trades Josh Smith is if he vehemently demands a trade and the Hawks have to give him up for the best offer that comes their way before the locker room explodes.

Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
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by Packey on May 12, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

as MFDD said below

he’s got a nasty trade kicker that may actually harm Smith now more than it was designed to help him.

"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"

by Mike Payne on May 12, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

touche MFMP and MFDD

Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter

by Packey on May 12, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

can they? that would be surprising. you would think that the agent would get a cut of that money or something.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

A player can’t out-right waive a trade kicker. They can forego part of the trade kicker based on trade legality as it relates to cap rules. During the Garnett trade to Boston, KG could only forego the portion of his kicker that fit between the total Boston player package going to Minny and the remaining cap space owned by Boston.

In short, a player’s trade kicker, or “trade bonus” is taken into account toward the salary cap of the receiving team, and the only amount a player can forego is the amount of the bonus that goes beyond the salary cap.

"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"

by Mike Payne on May 12, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Horford looked like their only descent player against the Magic.

I would love if the Pistons got him. Chances may be slimmer for Horford rather than J.Smith getting traded, but if Joe Johnson leaves they may want Rip. The Pistons would have to throw someone else of good value for them to consider it. Rip and Prince too much? For a guy with his #s, entering his prime and turning 24 this summer, I would do it.

Atlanta would really have to have a hard on for Rip and Prince for that trade to happen. Admittedly as big a hard on as I have for Horford.

Favre's ankle, Starcaps BS and hopefully a busy Piston offseason, oh my. Go Netherlands/Holland/Dutch Soccer(no its not Football)!

by VikesPma on May 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, the salaries don't match up at all.

Anyone have any insight on how the Pistons could make a trade for Horford work?

Favre's ankle, Starcaps BS and hopefully a busy Piston offseason, oh my. Go Netherlands/Holland/Dutch Soccer(no its not Football)!

by VikesPma on May 12, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the plan.

1. Make Bill Laimbeer the coach.
2. Send Bill Laimbeer to Atlanta’s front office
3. [Redacted]
4. Al Horford is sent to Detroit for Rip, Tayshaun, and V-Nuv
5. PROFIT.

by Biz Markie Moon on May 12, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Anyone out there

That would still want CV after this year? I hope so, just go away quietly CV and take your twitter BS with you!

Favre's ankle, Starcaps BS and hopefully a busy Piston offseason, oh my. Go Netherlands/Holland/Dutch Soccer(no its not Football)!

by VikesPma on May 12, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

josh smith has a huge trade kicker. like he gets 16 million a year if he is traded. so take that into consideration. i love him, but thats pretty steep.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

So am I the only person in this group

Who actually hates Boston just a bit more than the Cavs?

by Toledo Joe on May 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

once you taste lebrons tears tj you will always cheer against the cavs.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You said it

My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)

by MrHappyMushroom on May 13, 2010 4:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still in favor

of the arena collapsing on both teams, killing the fans and everyone inside. It’s a small price to pay for so much win.

Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

by sauce1977 on May 12, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but a collapsing arena

probably kills more than my plane crash. And you gotta figure there are lots of decent folks working the concessions and the like at the NBA game who don’t deserve what the players do.

On the other hand, I was raised to be anti-rich and I’m not sure it’s possible to attend an NBA playoff game without an upper six figure contract. So perhaps the arena collapse is the way to go.

Oh, so many choices!

My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)

by MrHappyMushroom on May 13, 2010 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll tell you why I don't hate Boston more...

Okay, I’m—as I wrote—all about hate in these playoffs. Sure, we have historical reasons to hate the Celts. And Pierce has always struck me as unpleasant. But Rondo is a hell of a player. And Ray Allen is rumored to be a decent guy. And though I have particular animosity towards ‘Sheed, as long as he’s putting up 0/2 numbers, I can enjoy hating him while the Celts win. And KG—you know, you at least have to acknowledge that the guy plays his hardest. We forget that he stood loyally by in Minny while McHale and others made a joke of that franchise.

I just can’t find the Celts as offensive as the LeBrons.

(Mind, though, what I said about plane crashes with either squad…)

My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)

by MrHappyMushroom on May 13, 2010 4:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Each team is comprised of douches

Seeing Cleveland lose at a title run is more satisfying than seeing the Celtiics lose at a title run. Pretty simple.

 I wanna see James denied, because of his extreme sense of entitlement.

"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"

by Skylar on May 13, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

King of what without a ring?

King of Cleveland? That doesn’t take much.

Favre's ankle, Starcaps BS and hopefully a busy Piston offseason, oh my. Go Netherlands/Holland/Dutch Soccer(no its not Football)!

by VikesPma on May 13, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, Skylar. LBJ believes the hype about himself, and he conducts himself accordingly. He comes across as void of any sense of gratitude or humility, and that makes me cheer against him.

by brgulker on May 21, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know Minnesota has floated the idea of trading Jefferson...

…but I can’t think of why (other than having Kevin Love too). Other than Al J, they don’t have any big contracts. It’s not like they’re anywhere near luxury tax land.

Why are they so keen on trading him?

by Quick Darshan on May 12, 2010 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

This season made it clear that K-Love and Al Jeff are redundant

What made things worse was when Darko was added to the mix and the +/- for the various pairings of bigs were best when Darko played with one or the other vs. Al Jeff and K Love playing together.

K Love will likely be putting up Al Jeff numbers by next year anyways, so whats the point of having the redundancy when they could trade for more help in the backcourt/on the wing.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on May 12, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the subject of coaches that blow up rosters

The first one that comes to mind is our old pal Larry Brown. He got Diaw and Bell, and then he shipped in Captain Jack. I can’t remember who they even traded away so it must have been atleast mildly successful for them.

The other coach that comes to mind is D’antoni. I know there were more trades or releases, but the only evidence I have of that is fan favorite Nate Robinson being benched and later traded for Eddie House to better suit D’antoni’s desire for guards that hoist 17 3pa per game.

Seems like proven coaches getting new homes have the freedom to blow up the roster and new coaches, like Kuester, are the franchises’ excuse for not wanting to make a risky roster/payroll move. So it makes sense to me, but only if Jackson and Popovich are shopping for new homes.

by JoeDip on May 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Pat Riley comes to mind

Remember when he took over as coach of the heat and got Zo and a bunch of other starters. They pretty much traded the whole team for him and it worked fairly well. I think it was one of the biggest trades in NBA history.

Practice safe sex . Go fuck yourself !

by DetBalla on May 12, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

‘’For him ’’ I mean Pat not Zo

Practice safe sex . Go fuck yourself !

by DetBalla on May 12, 2010 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

nice find Buddahfan

rec’d

"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"

by Mike Payne on May 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

An undersized shooting guard with passing skills?

Sign me up!

Why hasn’t Joe talked to Rod Benson or somebody like that? I’m not anti-D league, but we need big men and pure points, not stuff like this.

I swear to God, if Joe wastes an effing draft pick on this guy, I’ll be pissed.

by Biz Markie Moon on May 12, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

draft pick?

you would just sign him to a 10 day contract and roll from there, he likely went undrafted in the first place (and thus ended up in the d-league)

by bearded thundar on May 12, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, hold on a second.

I got confused because I was thinking about Lativious Williams or whatever his name is that plays for the Tulsa 66ers. I was a little confused on the rules because of him.

But still, we need to try D-league big men first.

by Biz Markie Moon on May 12, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a theory behind Lebron's dismal semifinals play

Mike Brown put him on blast a couple times lately, and did the same to Shaq. The theory is Lebron is dragging ass to illustrate how he’s even more integral to what CLE does than people give him credit for- without Lebron in the game, Boston is 40 points greater than Cleveland… I think it’s clear Lebron has little love for his coach, and I expect Mike Brown’s ass to be grass shortly.

"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"

by Skylar on May 12, 2010 6:08 PM EDT reply actions  

So Cleveland brings in...

??? Doug Collins? Avery Johnson? Vinny Del Negro? Eddie Jordan? The Boourns?

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on May 12, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I don't know.

Larry Brown’s swan song? Promise Phil Jackson he coaches homegames only. Cleveland will do anything to keep James in a Cavs jersey.

"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"

by Skylar on May 12, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

vallenti was saying this on the ticket today, saying the that lebron was dogging it kobe style. i dont recall exactly when kobe did that but i dont think it was in the playoffs. if lebrons playing mindgames with his team at this point in the season then he’s a bigger punk than i thought. he doesnt care about winning at all. i cant buy this theory, no player who supposedly wants to win it all is pulling that shit right now. i dont understand how he can feel under valued in cleveland but after his comments in the post game last night nothing about this joker will surprise me.

by dandresden on May 12, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

his elbow might be hurting more than he's letting on

i haven’t really followed this bunk-ass league since detroit played it’s last game for the year, but it seems like LeBron’s elbow isn’t a bullshit routine.

That being said, I expect him to get every legal drug going into the next game to make that pain go away, and he’ll probably go fucking ballistic in that game.

Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

by sauce1977 on May 12, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention the help he’ll get from the refs. Since he wasn’t aggressive AT ALL last game, he’ll probably put his head down and just force his way to the rim. And the refs will more than likely accommodate him.

by garrettelliott on May 12, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, i can't not expect lebron to tear the motherfuckin roof off

whatever he said in the press was to take the edge off of himself, and now he’s prime for riptown.

I dunno if his team has the stones to handle Rondo’s Heroes, though.

Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

by sauce1977 on May 12, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

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